I felt Trevor felt he had to torture him, rather than willingly did so. Once it was done, he set him free with some words of wisdom rather than killing him outright once he was done with him.
As for Tracy - He didn't act towards her like he did towards Amanda after seeing her for the first time. Like he has a proper 'uncle' complexion with her. The hug, the nod, the kind words. Compare that to meeting Amanda for the first time in a while. He is able to show compassion and emotion beyond "complete asshole pyscho killer".
I do not agree at all that Trevor is a 1-note psychopath. Nor do I think you can empathize with. I wonder if my opinion of Trevor stems from the fact that I do not play the game like some murderous asshole, I never have. I don't purposely run people over, shoot @ cops or pedestrians, fuck hookers than kill them for my money, and so on. That type of shit pulls me out of the experience rather than keep me in it. Perhaps, with Trevor, I should play that way. Regardless, I do hope you appreciate my lack of a matter-of-fact opinion regarding Trevor. These are opinions, after all, not fact.
As for now, though, I'm done pretending to be an arm chair psychologist and will go back to appreciating the characters for who I think they are. :P
Factor 1: Interpersonal/Affective
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)
Callousness; lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for his or her own actions
Factor 2: Lifestyle/Antisocial
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral control
Lack of realistic long-term goals
Impulsiveness
Irresponsibility
Juvenile delinquency
Early behavior problems
Revocation of conditional release
Criminal versatility
Traits not correlated with either factor
Promiscuous sexual behavior
Many short-term (marital) relationships
I'm not saying you can't sympathize with that sick, murdering psychopathic rapist and torturer... but it's kind of confusing and scary that anyone would.
Hrmm, it's kind of silly getting upset about this character in the context of GTA, it's kind of like Gir getting upset over the overuse of the N-word. I think people like him because he "doesn't give a fuck". I mean, it's from a choice of 3 mass murdering criminals.
I wonder if my opinion of Trevor stems from the fact that I do not play the game like some murderous asshole, I never have. I don't purposely run people over, shoot @ cops or pedestrians, fuck hookers than kill them for my money, and so on. That type of shit pulls me out of the experience rather than keep me in it.
do you follow the traffic laws also?
EDIT: Sorry ae. I meant to reply to this but clicked on my EDIT button (admin) by mistake. I've removed my text from your post and replied to it properly down below.
I have to say I'll go ahead and trust that rockstar hasn't let this ruin the game and they're planning ahead
Rockstar quote: "The economy is balanced differently from the single player economy, and cash earned in one cannot be taken over to the other. Most players will earn cash much faster Online than in Story Mode."
I wonder if my opinion of Trevor stems from the fact that I do not play the game like some murderous asshole, I never have. I don't purposely run people over, shoot @ cops or pedestrians, fuck hookers than kill them for my money, and so on. That type of shit pulls me out of the experience rather than keep me in it. Perhaps, with Trevor, I should play that way. Regardless, I do hope you appreciate my lack of a matter-of-fact opinion regarding Trevor. These are opinions, after all, not fact.
nothing is more gratifying than putting your minigun at window level in the street, and then scaring all the cars so they drive right through the line of fire and cut through all their heads in a bloody rampage
Of course id never do anything of the sort in real life and I'm not emotionally attached to characters in the game (Excepct I feel sorry for wade)
Pedestrians could be trashbags and id still shoot them. Its just fun to see the environment react
My only thought on how they could keep it balanced is if buying GTA$ was a 1 to 1 equivalent... or something very expensive in real-world dollars. In that case, while available, is something the vast majority of players will avoid.
Some of the time, but not all. I do not bump in to other cars or people, though, and avoid collisions at all costs. If the game had working turn signals, I'd use them. However, the moment the game turns on me: People mugging me, drawing weapon fire on me, being assholes to me, the gangster in the character comes out and I deal with them like I think they would. Some times I knee cap people instead of outright killing them. Or I shoot the gun out of their hands and run away. Franklin, Trevor, and Michael are criminals trying to pull of big heists. Spending the night in jail isn't very smart for keeping a low profile, so I try and not break the law as it wouldn't help them in the long run. Even if the game doesn't give a shit about that.
I walk most of the time, I don't run. And I play with the camera as close to the character as possible, so I can get a better of idea of what they're seeing rather than what the game is showing me, if that makes sense.
Holy crap, I just tried the Flight school. It was all pretty easy, most of them I got gold on first try, but then you get to the helicopter part and it's super hard! The helis are all wobbly and swing all over the place, and the controls need to be handled with extreme care. I had to try both mission 5 times to even be able to make bronze time! Not sure I like this too much...
Some of the time, but not all. I do not bump in to other cars or people, though, and avoid collisions at all costs. If the game had working turn signals, I'd use them. However, the moment the game turns on me: People mugging me, drawing weapon fire on me, being assholes to me, the gangster in the character comes out and I deal with them like I think they would. Some times I knee cap people instead of outright killing them. Or I shoot the gun out of their hands and run away. Franklin, Trevor, and Michael are criminals trying to pull of big heists. Spending the night in jail isn't very smart for keeping a low profile, so I try and not break the law as it wouldn't help them in the long run. Even if the game doesn't give a shit about that.
I walk most of the time, I don't run. And I play with the camera as close to the character as possible, so I can get a better of idea of what they're seeing rather than what the game is showing me, if that makes sense.
Thats a really interesting way to play, must get annoying at some points for sure. might give this a try tonight see how it goes. do you turn the hud off also?
Holy crap, I just tried the Flight school. It was all pretty easy, most of them I got gold on first try, but then you get to the helicopter part and it's super hard! The helis are all wobbly and swing all over the place, and the controls need to be handled with extreme care. I had to try both mission 5 times to even be able to make bronze time! Not sure I like this too much...
A friend of mine in the military said thats how helicopters really are?
Its a shame too... in 4 they were very easy to fly, but in 5 its a headache even with 100 flying
I can see why people like Trevor after the beginning he seems to have mellowed a bit. He only treats the people he knows well, really badly. He is a very bad man though, but funny and scary.
I think him doing the torture is a good way to make a comment on torture. They show the real uncomfortable brutality of it. It glamorises torture What?
I cant believe they modelled his testicles as well.
got any pimped cars? I played a bit at Rhinokio's place and found my favorite GTA series vehicle, the BF Injection! I just gotta start yelling BEEF INJECTION in a Quake 3 announcer voice.
got any pimped cars? I played a bit at Rhinokio's place and found my favorite GTA series vehicle, the BF Injection! I just gotta start yelling BEEF INJECTION in a Quake 3 announcer voice.
Oh man, my favorite car. Can`t wait to get my hands on this game.
With regards to the helicopters, you're best to use the shoulder buttons for fine directional correction, rather than using the sticks and wobbling around everywhere.
Yeah of course, you can't even complete most flight school missions unless you use the rudders. it's just that using the left stick to swing a heli left-to right makes it super hard to stop that momentum, I always swing like 4 times for a single nudge. On top of that all the controls require you to be very subtle, balancing throttle and pitch, while on the plane I just floor it and avoid the ground or buildings (though i do hate the "speed wobble' in planes).
I did find that flying with first person/cockpit view on the heli helped a lot to complete the flight school missions.
Really enjoying GTA V so far, just done the torture mission and I have to admit, I did cringe a bit... but it could have been a lot more graphic and over the top.
I can see elements from all of Rockstar's previous titles all coming together in GTA V, especially the random scripted sequences- good example is that I was walking near a motel, saw police cars blocking the entrance and shooting 2 men dead. Over the loud hailer, one of the cops mentions the fact the men had a brief case from a sting operation....
... so I take a small detour through the motel parking lot and stole the said briefcase full of cash and made a run for it!
The helicopters and planes do feel a lot different from the other GTA games, you do need to fight them for control compared to beforehand. I quite like that, adds that extra level of drama when you've got a battle going on
Just finished the game... Kind of disappointed in the story in itself, even though I really enjoying playing through it. I kinda feel the ending in GTA IV was more satisfying.
I once tried out a super hardcore helicopter sim - a friend did all the pre-flight switch flipping & what not, then he let me go at it. I would just immediately spin out & crash before even hovering an inch off the ground.
Well, the discussion here isn't whether or not anyone should get upset by Trevor. The claim was that Trevor has all these positive characteristics.
But as concerns what you say, you're saying anything goes? If the next game featured pedophilia minigames you wouldn't get affected by that? Just because it's a GTA game it's allowed to push the boundaries of moral depravity? This is not something that existed in the other games, it's a new development. I could play Vice City without feeling uncomfortable. It was funny, light-hearted, and didn't feature murdering civilians and such grotesque scenes.
That is the point of Trevor as a character though... He's meant to make you feel uncomfortable, terrified, disgusted and confused about how you can despise him but also be empathetic towards him.
Yes, you can feel empathetic towards him without being a psychopath yourself. Even though we don't know his full background, that's the magic of his character. He kills, assaults, rapes etc but he show's remorse in a number of scenes. He feels what he's doing is wrong but is also just in a messed up way.
For instance the scene with the Meth head near the start of Trevor's appearance, he feels bad shouting "Look what you made me do" IIRC or something similar but just in respect to the guy is a dirty meth head who has probably killed innocent people as well. In that respect he's doing good as there's now one less murdering meth head in the world.
Yes Trevor is just as bad, possibly worse but most people who do bad things, don't see themselves as bad people. Just like how a father wouldn't feel like a bad person for murdering someone who raped his daughter etc.
There's plenty of things about Trevor which are good, just they are almost entirely masked by his psychopathic nature, which make it hard to understand whether he did something for a good cause in his mind or just out of plain rage.
At the end of the day there are people like this out there. Some worse, some better. Most people these days are f**ked up and morality is a complex thing.
He knows he does bad things, as well as knows that makes him a bad person. But bad people don't tend to see themselves being as bad as from another persons perspective.
Regardless this is all just the picture of him that I've gathered from the story. Everyone's going to have different views on it, and its all speculation unless the writers did a full background on him as its 'their' story.
Man, you guys weren't kidding about the weak ending to this thing. Kinda reeks of something cobbled together to fill in for cut content, which seems a little peculiar given how polished and fully developed it seems to be prior to that.
Man, you guys weren't kidding about the weak ending to this thing. Kinda reeks of something cobbled together to fill in for cut content, which seems a little peculiar given how polished and fully developed it seems to be prior to that.
Haha, they definitely pulled a Mass Effect on this ending.
The only problem I had with the game is there weren't enough heists.
It pretty much highlights everything I feel about the cops in this game. I was trying to have a police chase from the city to the dam last night, but it's nearly impossible because of how the cops swarm in on you.
LOTS of people are complaining about the cops this time around.
OK, so it's fine that they're tough to deal with, but what really gets on my nerves is like when one minor accident turns into 15 minutes of fleeing the cops, and that happens all the damn time...
It's quite easy to flee 2-3 stars in the city.. just find a small side street out of view.. or get out of the car and hug the wall in some cramped area... however, you still end up waiting there for what seems like ages before the cops give up. It's just a huge waste of time.
Ok, if I go on a rampage and start offing officers, I expect something like that.. but when they're on me in the first place because a cop rammed ME, or I apparently looked at a cop funny, or when I helped a cop who was being mobbed.. that sort of stuff gets annoying fast
yeah, pretty much this.
there should absolutely be some kind of system in place that allows you to do things and not get caught if you're smart about it. and the examples given are completely to the point.
if you kill someone in a secluded area with no witnesses, you shouldn't have a problem getting away clean. if you hijack one of the money vans that are traveling around... if you can incapacitate both drivers before a radio call goes out, there should be reduced response time etc.
i loved how in GTA:IV if you hit someone with a car hard enough to kill them, you had blood on the car, and THAT is what made the cops notice you. in GTA:V a minor brush with a guy that gets up and walks away is enough to warrant a star, sometimes even two!
Hmmm, I guess its possible, katana. They did mention something about the 3 characters being apart of online. Just not playable. Either way, ya. weak ending, but hella fun game.
I don't mind the police, and in fact I think it's too easy to get away from them.. Especially during big chases.. It's so easy to drive into the airport, steal a plane and get away with it. Why the hell does that not give you an instant 5 star rating? Weird.
I like how cops are challenging, but then again that's mostly because it's really easy to get shot (in a car). Getting away is not so hard though, once you figure out that the railroads always work (they never follow you there, but you can go really fast as there's hardly ever trains).
I never tried doing stuff out in the wilderness though, but I haven't been that bothered. Perhaps only by the constant ramming, which disabled my car, resulting in me getting instakilled when the car sputtered and died...
Been waiting until I was much deeper into the game to write this, I think my opinion will put me squarely in the minority here, but I'll put it out there anyways:
Rockstar is a phenomenal world builder. GTAV is amazing in that regard, and they get all my respect on this alone. But this game has one of the most superficial single player campaigns I have ever played, and their writers really let the rest of the team down.
Outside of the dialogue, which is sharp and can be fairly witty, there is not a single redeeming quality in the writing here.
I honestly question whether the writers were consciously making decisions, or if everything was an unchecked ego assumption. Some 14 year olds ego fantasy, when women are still untouchables and other men are just measuring sticks.
All the women are useless sluts. All the men are ego steps on the main characters quest for grandeur - and grandeur seems to be the ONLY motivating factor for these characters. Every single male NPC I came across fell into two easy categories:
1 - Submissive and stupid, and there for the leads to step on.
2 - Dominant and fucked up, and there for the leads to kill to prove their grandeur.
The females are even worse.
Of the leads, Franklin is the only one with whom I could feel any initial connection, and even that was lost within the first few missions. Michael was pretty much the same, except that as the middle aged man with a slutty daughter and an asshole son, and a cheating wife etc. etc. he was too much of a cliche for me to ever even attempt to invest myself. Trevor was the pure pinnacle of the cliched psychopath. I don't mind playing a psychopathic character, but it would be nice if he was written with at least the smallest bit of originality. I feel like if the writers had started with anything but 'cliche' as Trevor's characters starting point, there would have been some great opportunities to have that character outshine the psychopath side of his, for instance the torture scene was extremely visceral, and if handled with anything but 'lol' as a end-goal, it could have been powerful.
I feel like these shortcomings were on some level known. There are times, such as after the torture scene when Trevor is giving his 'you have to live' speech, that I can almost feel the writers straining at their keyboards trying to unleash something they don't seem to have in them, but it all falls flat. In that scene Trevor's rambling comes across like a 14 year old on reddit railing against the government, trying to salvage an argument from a gut-feeling.
Replies
it was very uncomfortable for me playing through that part, that scene could have been done without being so graphic.
As for Tracy - He didn't act towards her like he did towards Amanda after seeing her for the first time. Like he has a proper 'uncle' complexion with her. The hug, the nod, the kind words. Compare that to meeting Amanda for the first time in a while. He is able to show compassion and emotion beyond "complete asshole pyscho killer".
I do not agree at all that Trevor is a 1-note psychopath. Nor do I think you can empathize with. I wonder if my opinion of Trevor stems from the fact that I do not play the game like some murderous asshole, I never have. I don't purposely run people over, shoot @ cops or pedestrians, fuck hookers than kill them for my money, and so on. That type of shit pulls me out of the experience rather than keep me in it. Perhaps, with Trevor, I should play that way. Regardless, I do hope you appreciate my lack of a matter-of-fact opinion regarding Trevor. These are opinions, after all, not fact.
As for now, though, I'm done pretending to be an arm chair psychologist and will go back to appreciating the characters for who I think they are. :P
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/The-Psychopath-Test-Journey-Industry/dp/1594485755"]The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry: Jon Ronson: 9781594485756: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
And here is the psychopath checklist:
Factor 1: Interpersonal/Affective
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)
Callousness; lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for his or her own actions
Factor 2: Lifestyle/Antisocial
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral control
Lack of realistic long-term goals
Impulsiveness
Irresponsibility
Juvenile delinquency
Early behavior problems
Revocation of conditional release
Criminal versatility
Traits not correlated with either factor
Promiscuous sexual behavior
Many short-term (marital) relationships
Hrmm, it's kind of silly getting upset about this character in the context of GTA, it's kind of like Gir getting upset over the overuse of the N-word. I think people like him because he "doesn't give a fuck". I mean, it's from a choice of 3 mass murdering criminals.
I have to say I'll go ahead and trust that rockstar hasn't let this ruin the game and they're planning ahead
do you follow the traffic laws also?
EDIT: Sorry ae. I meant to reply to this but clicked on my EDIT button (admin) by mistake. I've removed my text from your post and replied to it properly down below.
Rockstar quote: "The economy is balanced differently from the single player economy, and cash earned in one cannot be taken over to the other. Most players will earn cash much faster Online than in Story Mode."
Of course id never do anything of the sort in real life and I'm not emotionally attached to characters in the game (Excepct I feel sorry for wade)
Pedestrians could be trashbags and id still shoot them. Its just fun to see the environment react
Some of the time, but not all. I do not bump in to other cars or people, though, and avoid collisions at all costs. If the game had working turn signals, I'd use them. However, the moment the game turns on me: People mugging me, drawing weapon fire on me, being assholes to me, the gangster in the character comes out and I deal with them like I think they would. Some times I knee cap people instead of outright killing them. Or I shoot the gun out of their hands and run away. Franklin, Trevor, and Michael are criminals trying to pull of big heists. Spending the night in jail isn't very smart for keeping a low profile, so I try and not break the law as it wouldn't help them in the long run. Even if the game doesn't give a shit about that.
I walk most of the time, I don't run. And I play with the camera as close to the character as possible, so I can get a better of idea of what they're seeing rather than what the game is showing me, if that makes sense.
Thats a really interesting way to play, must get annoying at some points for sure. might give this a try tonight see how it goes. do you turn the hud off also?
Its a shame too... in 4 they were very easy to fly, but in 5 its a headache even with 100 flying
I think him doing the torture is a good way to make a comment on torture. They show the real uncomfortable brutality of it. It glamorises torture What?
I cant believe they modelled his testicles as well.
Trevor could totally be Sweet Tooth.
I did find that flying with first person/cockpit view on the heli helped a lot to complete the flight school missions.
I can see elements from all of Rockstar's previous titles all coming together in GTA V, especially the random scripted sequences- good example is that I was walking near a motel, saw police cars blocking the entrance and shooting 2 men dead. Over the loud hailer, one of the cops mentions the fact the men had a brief case from a sting operation....
... so I take a small detour through the motel parking lot and stole the said briefcase full of cash and made a run for it!
The helicopters and planes do feel a lot different from the other GTA games, you do need to fight them for control compared to beforehand. I quite like that, adds that extra level of drama when you've got a battle going on
I will also be on 360, GT is JamesArk, feel free to add me if you would like to get mugged or caught in a drive-by.
That is the point of Trevor as a character though... He's meant to make you feel uncomfortable, terrified, disgusted and confused about how you can despise him but also be empathetic towards him.
Yes, you can feel empathetic towards him without being a psychopath yourself. Even though we don't know his full background, that's the magic of his character. He kills, assaults, rapes etc but he show's remorse in a number of scenes. He feels what he's doing is wrong but is also just in a messed up way.
For instance the scene with the Meth head near the start of Trevor's appearance, he feels bad shouting "Look what you made me do" IIRC or something similar but just in respect to the guy is a dirty meth head who has probably killed innocent people as well. In that respect he's doing good as there's now one less murdering meth head in the world.
Yes Trevor is just as bad, possibly worse but most people who do bad things, don't see themselves as bad people. Just like how a father wouldn't feel like a bad person for murdering someone who raped his daughter etc.
There's plenty of things about Trevor which are good, just they are almost entirely masked by his psychopathic nature, which make it hard to understand whether he did something for a good cause in his mind or just out of plain rage.
At the end of the day there are people like this out there. Some worse, some better. Most people these days are f**ked up and morality is a complex thing.
Trevor knows he's bad person he doesnt care, he's the most honest character in the game.
Regardless this is all just the picture of him that I've gathered from the story. Everyone's going to have different views on it, and its all speculation unless the writers did a full background on him as its 'their' story.
The only problem I had with the game is there weren't enough heists.
http://www.reddit.com/r/GrandTheftAutoV/comments/1nd2sz/i_really_dont_enjoy_fighting_the_cops_anymore/
It pretty much highlights everything I feel about the cops in this game. I was trying to have a police chase from the city to the dam last night, but it's nearly impossible because of how the cops swarm in on you.
yeah, pretty much this.
there should absolutely be some kind of system in place that allows you to do things and not get caught if you're smart about it. and the examples given are completely to the point.
if you kill someone in a secluded area with no witnesses, you shouldn't have a problem getting away clean. if you hijack one of the money vans that are traveling around... if you can incapacitate both drivers before a radio call goes out, there should be reduced response time etc.
i loved how in GTA:IV if you hit someone with a car hard enough to kill them, you had blood on the car, and THAT is what made the cops notice you. in GTA:V a minor brush with a guy that gets up and walks away is enough to warrant a star, sometimes even two!
crazy.
Isn't it possible to do that?
Its pointless getting in any fights with them as you die so quickly. Its no fun I cant understand why they've done that.
Maybe its some reverse psychology way of getting people to obey the law.
I never tried doing stuff out in the wilderness though, but I haven't been that bothered. Perhaps only by the constant ramming, which disabled my car, resulting in me getting instakilled when the car sputtered and died...
[ame="
check out , he also made 5 stars police chase
[ame="
Rockstar is a phenomenal world builder. GTAV is amazing in that regard, and they get all my respect on this alone. But this game has one of the most superficial single player campaigns I have ever played, and their writers really let the rest of the team down.
Outside of the dialogue, which is sharp and can be fairly witty, there is not a single redeeming quality in the writing here.
I honestly question whether the writers were consciously making decisions, or if everything was an unchecked ego assumption. Some 14 year olds ego fantasy, when women are still untouchables and other men are just measuring sticks.
All the women are useless sluts. All the men are ego steps on the main characters quest for grandeur - and grandeur seems to be the ONLY motivating factor for these characters. Every single male NPC I came across fell into two easy categories:
1 - Submissive and stupid, and there for the leads to step on.
2 - Dominant and fucked up, and there for the leads to kill to prove their grandeur.
The females are even worse.
Of the leads, Franklin is the only one with whom I could feel any initial connection, and even that was lost within the first few missions. Michael was pretty much the same, except that as the middle aged man with a slutty daughter and an asshole son, and a cheating wife etc. etc. he was too much of a cliche for me to ever even attempt to invest myself. Trevor was the pure pinnacle of the cliched psychopath. I don't mind playing a psychopathic character, but it would be nice if he was written with at least the smallest bit of originality. I feel like if the writers had started with anything but 'cliche' as Trevor's characters starting point, there would have been some great opportunities to have that character outshine the psychopath side of his, for instance the torture scene was extremely visceral, and if handled with anything but 'lol' as a end-goal, it could have been powerful.
I feel like these shortcomings were on some level known. There are times, such as after the torture scene when Trevor is giving his 'you have to live' speech, that I can almost feel the writers straining at their keyboards trying to unleash something they don't seem to have in them, but it all falls flat. In that scene Trevor's rambling comes across like a 14 year old on reddit railing against the government, trying to salvage an argument from a gut-feeling.
I love these. Wish there was a movie maker like GTA 4 PC
So, I found greentooth in a train tunnel. it's in the tunnel to the south of the logging camp.
Social Club link with the map location: http://socialclub.rockstargames.com/games/gtav/snapmatic/photo/ZrwnWNRRHEedEbKcyC18Qw