How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @Yerus  
    I'm using Cinema 4D. I did delete the edges and vertices as I understood your explanation. I also ran the Optimize command (similar to Maya's Merge/Cleanup Geometry command). I deleted the middle edge to create a quad, but it created a bump in the geometry when subdivided.


    Just to make sure it wasn't the Subdivision scheme, I exported the model and brought it into Maya (both are using Catmull-Clark N-Gon). Here's a screenshot from Maya. It is also creating the bump.

  • Yerus
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    Yerus triangle
    Can you post a picture of the subdivided mesh? It's hard to tell from this preview mode image.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @Yerus
    Sure, here's the subdivided mesh.


    I have also attached an .obj file with the original edge loop configuration. Thanks for your help.
  • Yerus
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    Yerus triangle
    Well, I tried some stuff, the only one that worked was pushing the edges further away.
    There is still a little bit of pinching, but I think that's due to unleveled topology, adjustable withs tweaks.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @Yerus
    Thank you so much :smile:

    That looks good. Can I see the wireframe on the unsmoothed topology (or an obj)?
  • Yerus
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    Yerus triangle
    No prob. Here you go! 
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    Yerus said:
    No prob. Here you go! 
    I really appreciate you working with me on this, @Yerus . Very kind of you.

    Thanks again.
  • Ghogiel
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    Ghogiel polycounter lvl 12
    Not sure what the end result should be...  but by simply deleting the back end, selected in red,
     subDing with smoothing groups, then extruding the back end back to where you wanted it again, that way the curve will not dip noticablty at the internal corner.


    All those support loop solutions where topology ends up weirdly stretching across a curved surfaces in ugly ways are probably best avoided



  • semo005
    Yerus said:
    It's very likely it will affect the render. In UV editor what you actually see is the texture, not the final result, so their is no chance to check this from there.

    oh sorry for late reply but thanks for the answer
  • sixbysix
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    sixbysix polycounter lvl 5
    I'm in the process of modeling a Minidisc cartridge (remember these?). Now they are rectangular but have two different corner radiuses. What would the best approach to modeling this be? I've tried a few but they all feel wrong. Thanks and cheers.

    Reference:


    Attempts (bottom row is subdivided):


  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    One method I'd suggest, is to bevel the corners and inset a support loop, then crease plus adding further loops to harden the control edge defining a rectangular shape.

    (Note - ngons can be used on planar surfaces once smoothed without throwing distortion or shading errors with subdiv applied)

     

  • sixbysix
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    sixbysix polycounter lvl 5
    Cheers sacboi, that helped! I did it a bit differently because I have to cut some more detail into it later, but here's what I got so far.

    Top view: 



    Detail:



    Looks good so far:



  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    Nice! also 'floaters' (floating geometry) can be used to bake down the fine disc case detailing shown on your ref.

  • sixbysix
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    sixbysix polycounter lvl 5
    sacboi said:

    Nice! also 'floaters' (floating geometry) can be used to bake down the fine disc case detailing shown on your ref.

    I’ve read about floaters but I'm unsure how to utilize them in C4D. Only ever read about them in context of Max. I might have to switch software here, read that xNormals would do it. It does sound like a huge timesaver as opposed to modeling every little detail.
  • Ghogiel
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    Ghogiel polycounter lvl 12
    sixbysix said:
    sacboi said:

    Nice! also 'floaters' (floating geometry) can be used to bake down the fine disc case detailing shown on your ref.

    I’ve read about floaters but I'm unsure how to utilize them in C4D. Only ever read about them in context of Max. I might have to switch software here, read that xNormals would do it. It does sound like a huge timesaver as opposed to modeling every little detail.
    floaters are software independent. Max has no special handling in their regard. They are just regular geometry and pretty much any baker can bake them to a normal/AO. only thing to note is to turn off backfaces so they don't cast shadows around the edges for AO bakes. I don't expect many people to be baking inside of max these days unless they specifically need max's tangent basis
  • HixaLupa
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    HixaLupa triangle
    Hello! I've done as much reading as I can, I keep seeing things that are almost the solution to my problem but ohmygod I'm so sick of faffing about with this. It's a dumb issue that I used to just ignore but I like to think I'm better than that now, but then I can't fix it so clearly I'm missing something. It's a small asset but one day it'll be a hero one and I'll still be pissing about with edge loops.

    So, I'm making a lantern. I want to extrude in the glass windows, keep them as the same mesh however, and preserve the roundness of the cylinder. So I can add retaining loops horizontally, but they result in this because there's no vertical ones. Vertical ones cause vertical pinching where it's hardening those edges.

    Heres the pinching vertically and you can see to the right where the horizontal pinching is happening.
    If someone could once and for all tell me how to fix this stupidity I'd be delighted. Oh, and in Maya terms pls if possible lol

  • Soviet
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    Soviet triangle

    Cylinders! Try this (https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2679537/#Comment_2679537). Wirrexx must be pretty tired of me linking it everywhere by this point.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Soviet said:

    Cylinders! Try this (https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2679537/#Comment_2679537). Wirrexx must be pretty tired of me linking it everywhere by this point.
     :D  No but really, keep on sharing it, i mean, So i don't have to redo it :P
  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    Heh :)

    ...and aside from this thread alone, there's also a ton of relevant info on the wiki as well. So really, getting up to speed with the fundamentals will save all that faffing/pissing about, in the first place.

    Topology

    Subdivision Surface Modelling


  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    HixaLupa said:
    Hello! I've done as much reading as I can, I keep seeing things that are almost the solution to my problem but ohmygod I'm so sick of faffing about with this. It's a dumb issue that I used to just ignore but I like to think I'm better than that now, but then I can't fix it so clearly I'm missing something. It's a small asset but one day it'll be a hero one and I'll still be pissing about with edge loops.

    So, I'm making a lantern. I want to extrude in the glass windows, keep them as the same mesh however, and preserve the roundness of the cylinder. So I can add retaining loops horizontally, but they result in this because there's no vertical ones. Vertical ones cause vertical pinching where it's hardening those edges.

    Heres the pinching vertically and you can see to the right where the horizontal pinching is happening.
    If someone could once and for all tell me how to fix this stupidity I'd be delighted. Oh, and in Maya terms pls if possible lol

    another thing nobody is mentioning. it's not build in one piece. So why build it as one piece?
  • Thomas Doig
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    Thomas Doig polycounter lvl 5
    Hi blastframe,
    I'm sorry I took so long to reply, I need to turn on notifications so i get an email of a reply.
    Did Yerus's most recent suggestion work?

  • HixaLupa
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    HixaLupa triangle
    That's a good point wirexx, I thought that the same issue would happen if the metal case was separated anyway so I just said screw it it'll be one mesh- my fairly limp excuse for doing it this way (I did remove the top half-sphere to reduce hardening it's edges too) is that it's the HiPoly for a small asset for a game, and my laziness has clearly cost me more time in the end lol!

    sacboi said:

    Heh :)

    ...and aside from this thread alone, there's also a ton of relevant info on the wiki as well. So really, getting up to speed with the fundamentals will save all that faffing/pissing about, in the first place.

    Topology

    Subdivision Surface Modelling


    Yeah, it's pretty gutting to be caught up on something that should be so simple! Those resources are great, so many links! I'll be sure to read through them cos I clearly have gaps in my knowledge that need filling/revising lmao

    Thank you everyone, I'll give it another go in a few days cos my deadline is so soon :sm:sweat_smile: with a higher division cylinder. Is it ok to post (what i hope will be) my success later on?

  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter
    @HixaLupa yes, by all means repost another attempt, so that others may learn from it or if needed suggest further revisions.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    Hello,
    I have a tube that I'm extruding into a flat surface. When I try to bevel the object, I run into some trouble and could use some help. I have tried using triangles to not interfere with the inner curvature of the tube as in the image below.

    It's good except that it creates distortion when subdivided.


    I then tried another way, using more spans in the tube, which worked better, but still created an uneven union of the bevels.

    Here it is subdivided:


    Does anyone have advice on how to join extrude this flat surface out with optimal beveling? I've attached an .obj of the shape (before bevelling) if it helps.

    Thank you!


  • Prime8
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    Prime8 polycounter lvl 4
    Hello,
    I have a tube that I'm extruding into a flat surface. When I try to bevel the object, I run into some trouble and could use some help. I have tried using triangles to not interfere with the inner curvature of the tube as in the image below.

    It's good except that it creates distortion when subdivided.


    I then tried another way, using more spans in the tube, which worked better, but still created an uneven union of the bevels.

    Here it is subdivided:


    Does anyone have advice on how to join extrude this flat surface out with optimal beveling? I've attached an .obj of the shape (before bevelling) if it helps.

    Thank you!


    I would flatten some parts of the cylinder first before extruding, try something like this.
    Less geo should work as well.

  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    Prime8 said:

    I would flatten some parts of the cylinder first before extruding, try something like this.
    Less geo should work as well.

    That is beautiful! I'll give this a try. Thank you very much.
  • Rolfisway
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    Rolfisway polycounter lvl 2
    Hello,
    I have a tube that I'm extruding into a flat surface. When I try to bevel the object, I run into some trouble and could use some help. I have tried using triangles to not interfere with the inner curvature of the tube as in the image below.

    It's good except that it creates distortion when subdivided.


    I then tried another way, using more spans in the tube, which worked better, but still created an uneven union of the bevels.

    Here it is subdivided:


    Does anyone have advice on how to join extrude this flat surface out with optimal beveling? I've attached an .obj of the shape (before bevelling) if it helps.

    Thank you!



  • Revel
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    Revel greentooth
    Remember SubD does NOT required all quads, jut put ngon in there, you will enjoy it more.
    In max I'll just model the first mesh low cage mesh then slap in there a chamfer modifier + turbosmooth.

  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    Thank you, @Prime8, @Rolfisway, and  @Revel !

    I have considered all of your posts and feel much better about the bevel (thanks to you!).

    I'm now trying to extrude the side in 90°. I came up with a solution to converge the bevel spans which yields a decent result (as in the below images), but I wanted to get some feedback from some more experienced modelers before proceeding. Am I missing a better solution? When subdivided, the intersection doesn't look very clean...it's sharp and seems to split the bevel in two rather than staying continuous. I've attached an .obj file too if you wish to take a look.


    Detail View:


    Subdivided:


  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter
    Firstly model each example as shown, then study in turn their respective topology design, because it seems to me you're still struggling too understand the basic principles of subd modeling and that's ok, we've all been there before.

    Anyway no better way too learn that I know of than trial and error.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    sacboi said:
    Firstly model each example as shown, then study in turn their respective topology design, because it seems to me you're still struggling too understand the basic principles of subd modeling and that's ok, we've all been there before.

    Anyway no better way too learn that I know of than trial and error.
    Thank you for the response. I am struggling, however this is the topology design from @Prime8 as theirs allowed me to extrude in the manor I am demonstrating in my last post. I also tried using n-gons as suggested by @Revel. Beyond that, I've done plenty of trial and error before posting again as to not spam the thread.

    Could you please be more specific about which basic principle of sub-d modeling I am not understanding? My current issue does relate to my previous one in that it's a sub-division error from the intersection of sub-d support spans, but it's different and more complex as it's now also going in a 3rd dimension with the partial extrude. I have been studying and working on modeling a lot lately, but I haven't found anything on this which is why I am coming to this forum for help (that I believe exists for when your own methods can't take you any farther).
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @blastframe

    The "chamfer" modifier in Max does most of this sort of stuff automatically. I'm not saying you shouldn't learn sub-d - the point is rather that if a mere computer algorithm can do it, then there's a reproducible method which can be studied, understood and applied consistently.

    The sub-divided mesh below looks great, with no manual editing whatsoever.
    edit: max file (2020) attached


  • Revel
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    Revel greentooth
    That somehow reminds me of the 3PointStudio logo @perna ; :p

  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @perna That does look cool.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Revel ; haha oh no that reminds me how ugly it is
    @blastframe I've attached the max file in the previous post
  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    blastframe said:

    sacboi said:

    Firstly model each example as shown, then study in turn their respective topology design, because it seems to me you're still struggling too understand the basic principles of subd modeling and that's ok, we've all been there before.

    Anyway no better way too learn that I know of than trial and error.

    Thank you for the response. I am struggling, however this is the topology design from @Prime8 as theirs allowed me to extrude in the manor I am demonstrating in my last post. I also tried using n-gons as suggested by @Revel. Beyond that, I've done plenty of trial and error before posting again as to not spam the thread.

    Could you please be more specific about which basic principle of sub-d modeling I am not understanding? My current issue does relate to my previous one in that it's a sub-division error from the intersection of sub-d support spans, but it's different and more complex as it's now also going in a 3rd dimension with the partial extrude. I have been studying and working on modeling a lot lately, but I haven't found anything on this which is why I am coming to this forum for help (that I believe exists for when your own methods can't take you any farther).

    perna said it all, I'll just add these for further reading.

    http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/SubdivisionSurfaceModeling

    http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Topology

  • Paskuihernandez
    Hi everyone!! I'm modeling ths piece and i'd like to ask you how would you model the tiny holes that the big one contains on it. This piece is going to be baked and imported to UE4 so i know i'll do the holes' normal map in photoshop or maybe designer and then applying a material in painter but i'm interested in the way this could be modeled. ^^

  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Paskuihernandez
    no illustration but these steps should be clear enough to follow as long as you're familiar with 3ds terms.

    -make a a grid. That is, a subdivided plane/quad.
    -inset by face
    -delete
    -project this onto geo with the needed curve (like the geo you have in your mesh)
    -shell modifier
    -subdivide to turn the square holes into circles

    all you really need to know is how to turn a quad into a circle with subdivision.

  • Paskuihernandez
    @perna i got all the steps but the projection part... you mean with booleans?
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Paskuihernandez

    You can project geometry onto other geometry. In many cases this it the only way to be efficient, so check whatever app you use for projection capabilities. It's the same as draping cloth over a shape.

    illustrations from online:



  • Paskuihernandez
    @perna oh ok, i know the ShapeMerge...i'll try it!! thanks!! ^^

  • Arnonious
    Hello!
    Im modeling a JBL speaker and im at the point i need to "represent" the speakers "grid/net" and have no idea how to do it XD.
  • Soviet
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    Soviet triangle
    @Arnonious Look literally four posts above yours.
  • Arnonious
    Soviet said:
    @Arnonious Look literally four posts above yours.
    i forgot to say i use Maya :smile:
    and arnold for that matter
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Arnonious said:
    Soviet said:
    @Arnonious Look literally four posts above yours.
    i forgot to say i use Maya :smile:
    and arnold for that matter
    So?
  • Arnonious
    perna said:
    @Paskuihernandez
    no illustration but these steps should be clear enough to follow as long as you're familiar with 3ds terms.

    -make a a grid. That is, a subdivided plane/quad.
    -inset by face
    -delete
    -project this onto geo with the needed curve (like the geo you have in your mesh)
    -shell modifier
    -subdivide to turn the square holes into circles

    all you really need to know is how to turn a quad into a circle with subdivision.

    so this means nothing to me
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Arnonious said:
    perna said:
    @Paskuihernandez
    no illustration but these steps should be clear enough to follow as long as you're familiar with 3ds terms.

    -make a a grid. That is, a subdivided plane/quad.
    -inset by face
    -delete
    -project this onto geo with the needed curve (like the geo you have in your mesh)
    -shell modifier
    -subdivide to turn the square holes into circles

    all you really need to know is how to turn a quad into a circle with subdivision.

    so this means nothing to me
    Because of two terms which are inconsistent between 3DS and Maya your entire capability to understand the post collapses? I would like to have a stern talk with your teacher.

    A face in 3DS is the same as a polygon.
    Inset is demonstrated in the following image. I found it by using the website "www.google.com"
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/27/89/37/278937724161be21dbb95c026200d2a1.png
    Shell you can just ignore.

  • Arnonious
    perna said:
    Arnonious said:
    perna said:
    @Paskuihernandez
    no illustration but these steps should be clear enough to follow as long as you're familiar with 3ds terms.

    -make a a grid. That is, a subdivided plane/quad.
    -inset by face
    -delete
    -project this onto geo with the needed curve (like the geo you have in your mesh)
    -shell modifier
    -subdivide to turn the square holes into circles

    all you really need to know is how to turn a quad into a circle with subdivision.

    so this means nothing to me
    Because of two terms which are inconsistent between 3DS and Maya your entire capability to understand the post collapses? I would like to have a stern talk with your teacher.

    A face in 3DS is the same as a polygon.
    Inset is demonstrated in the following image. I found it by using the website "www.google.com"
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/27/89/37/278937724161be21dbb95c026200d2a1.png
    Shell you can just ignore.

    thanks i guess

  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    Arnonious said:

    [...]

    -shell modifier

    [...]

    so this means nothing to me

    Actually there's a plug for this in Maya:

    https://lesterbanks.com/2015/05/getting-started-using-the-maya-shell-modifier/

    ...and for me as a 'Blenderite', "Shell Modifier" means adding thickness or volume: 

    https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/modifiers/generate/solidify.html

  • Przerywnik
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    Przerywnik polycounter lvl 3
    Hello Folks, im just wondering how the heck would you model this part super fast? What I know it was created in Modo and screenshot is taken from maya. Im wondering if are there any suppa fast tricks you can use to provide shapes like that? For example Sub-d modelling - and making a turbo smooth, or procedural bridging etc.  If there are any PROs who could explain me this example, would be great and really thankfull. Im always trying to solve this kind of riddles to incerase my speed workflow insead of each-poly modelling. Thanks!
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