How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Soviet said:

    Cylinders! Try this (https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2679537/#Comment_2679537). Wirrexx must be pretty tired of me linking it everywhere by this point.
     :D  No but really, keep on sharing it, i mean, So i don't have to redo it :P
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    Heh :)

    ...and aside from this thread alone, there's also a ton of relevant info on the wiki as well. So really, getting up to speed with the fundamentals will save all that faffing/pissing about, in the first place.

    Topology

    Subdivision Surface Modelling


  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    HixaLupa said:
    Hello! I've done as much reading as I can, I keep seeing things that are almost the solution to my problem but ohmygod I'm so sick of faffing about with this. It's a dumb issue that I used to just ignore but I like to think I'm better than that now, but then I can't fix it so clearly I'm missing something. It's a small asset but one day it'll be a hero one and I'll still be pissing about with edge loops.

    So, I'm making a lantern. I want to extrude in the glass windows, keep them as the same mesh however, and preserve the roundness of the cylinder. So I can add retaining loops horizontally, but they result in this because there's no vertical ones. Vertical ones cause vertical pinching where it's hardening those edges.

    Heres the pinching vertically and you can see to the right where the horizontal pinching is happening.
    If someone could once and for all tell me how to fix this stupidity I'd be delighted. Oh, and in Maya terms pls if possible lol

    another thing nobody is mentioning. it's not build in one piece. So why build it as one piece?
  • Thomas Doig
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    Thomas Doig polycounter lvl 5
    Hi blastframe,
    I'm sorry I took so long to reply, I need to turn on notifications so i get an email of a reply.
    Did Yerus's most recent suggestion work?

  • HixaLupa
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    HixaLupa triangle
    That's a good point wirexx, I thought that the same issue would happen if the metal case was separated anyway so I just said screw it it'll be one mesh- my fairly limp excuse for doing it this way (I did remove the top half-sphere to reduce hardening it's edges too) is that it's the HiPoly for a small asset for a game, and my laziness has clearly cost me more time in the end lol!

    sacboi said:

    Heh :)

    ...and aside from this thread alone, there's also a ton of relevant info on the wiki as well. So really, getting up to speed with the fundamentals will save all that faffing/pissing about, in the first place.

    Topology

    Subdivision Surface Modelling


    Yeah, it's pretty gutting to be caught up on something that should be so simple! Those resources are great, so many links! I'll be sure to read through them cos I clearly have gaps in my knowledge that need filling/revising lmao

    Thank you everyone, I'll give it another go in a few days cos my deadline is so soon :sm:sweat_smile: with a higher division cylinder. Is it ok to post (what i hope will be) my success later on?

  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    @HixaLupa yes, by all means repost another attempt, so that others may learn from it or if needed suggest further revisions.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    Hello,
    I have a tube that I'm extruding into a flat surface. When I try to bevel the object, I run into some trouble and could use some help. I have tried using triangles to not interfere with the inner curvature of the tube as in the image below.

    It's good except that it creates distortion when subdivided.


    I then tried another way, using more spans in the tube, which worked better, but still created an uneven union of the bevels.

    Here it is subdivided:


    Does anyone have advice on how to join extrude this flat surface out with optimal beveling? I've attached an .obj of the shape (before bevelling) if it helps.

    Thank you!


  • Prime8
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    Prime8 polycounter lvl 5
    Hello,
    I have a tube that I'm extruding into a flat surface. When I try to bevel the object, I run into some trouble and could use some help. I have tried using triangles to not interfere with the inner curvature of the tube as in the image below.

    It's good except that it creates distortion when subdivided.


    I then tried another way, using more spans in the tube, which worked better, but still created an uneven union of the bevels.

    Here it is subdivided:


    Does anyone have advice on how to join extrude this flat surface out with optimal beveling? I've attached an .obj of the shape (before bevelling) if it helps.

    Thank you!


    I would flatten some parts of the cylinder first before extruding, try something like this.
    Less geo should work as well.

  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    Prime8 said:

    I would flatten some parts of the cylinder first before extruding, try something like this.
    Less geo should work as well.

    That is beautiful! I'll give this a try. Thank you very much.
  • Rolfisway
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    Rolfisway polycounter lvl 2
    Hello,
    I have a tube that I'm extruding into a flat surface. When I try to bevel the object, I run into some trouble and could use some help. I have tried using triangles to not interfere with the inner curvature of the tube as in the image below.

    It's good except that it creates distortion when subdivided.


    I then tried another way, using more spans in the tube, which worked better, but still created an uneven union of the bevels.

    Here it is subdivided:


    Does anyone have advice on how to join extrude this flat surface out with optimal beveling? I've attached an .obj of the shape (before bevelling) if it helps.

    Thank you!



  • Revel
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    Revel greentooth
    Remember SubD does NOT required all quads, jut put ngon in there, you will enjoy it more.
    In max I'll just model the first mesh low cage mesh then slap in there a chamfer modifier + turbosmooth.

  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    Thank you, @Prime8, @Rolfisway, and  @Revel !

    I have considered all of your posts and feel much better about the bevel (thanks to you!).

    I'm now trying to extrude the side in 90°. I came up with a solution to converge the bevel spans which yields a decent result (as in the below images), but I wanted to get some feedback from some more experienced modelers before proceeding. Am I missing a better solution? When subdivided, the intersection doesn't look very clean...it's sharp and seems to split the bevel in two rather than staying continuous. I've attached an .obj file too if you wish to take a look.


    Detail View:


    Subdivided:


  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    Firstly model each example as shown, then study in turn their respective topology design, because it seems to me you're still struggling too understand the basic principles of subd modeling and that's ok, we've all been there before.

    Anyway no better way too learn that I know of than trial and error.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    sacboi said:
    Firstly model each example as shown, then study in turn their respective topology design, because it seems to me you're still struggling too understand the basic principles of subd modeling and that's ok, we've all been there before.

    Anyway no better way too learn that I know of than trial and error.
    Thank you for the response. I am struggling, however this is the topology design from @Prime8 as theirs allowed me to extrude in the manor I am demonstrating in my last post. I also tried using n-gons as suggested by @Revel. Beyond that, I've done plenty of trial and error before posting again as to not spam the thread.

    Could you please be more specific about which basic principle of sub-d modeling I am not understanding? My current issue does relate to my previous one in that it's a sub-division error from the intersection of sub-d support spans, but it's different and more complex as it's now also going in a 3rd dimension with the partial extrude. I have been studying and working on modeling a lot lately, but I haven't found anything on this which is why I am coming to this forum for help (that I believe exists for when your own methods can't take you any farther).
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @blastframe

    The "chamfer" modifier in Max does most of this sort of stuff automatically. I'm not saying you shouldn't learn sub-d - the point is rather that if a mere computer algorithm can do it, then there's a reproducible method which can be studied, understood and applied consistently.

    The sub-divided mesh below looks great, with no manual editing whatsoever.
    edit: max file (2020) attached


  • Revel
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    Revel greentooth
    That somehow reminds me of the 3PointStudio logo @perna  :p

  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @perna That does look cool.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Revel  haha oh no that reminds me how ugly it is
    @blastframe I've attached the max file in the previous post
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    blastframe said:

    sacboi said:

    Firstly model each example as shown, then study in turn their respective topology design, because it seems to me you're still struggling too understand the basic principles of subd modeling and that's ok, we've all been there before.

    Anyway no better way too learn that I know of than trial and error.

    Thank you for the response. I am struggling, however this is the topology design from @Prime8 as theirs allowed me to extrude in the manor I am demonstrating in my last post. I also tried using n-gons as suggested by @Revel. Beyond that, I've done plenty of trial and error before posting again as to not spam the thread.

    Could you please be more specific about which basic principle of sub-d modeling I am not understanding? My current issue does relate to my previous one in that it's a sub-division error from the intersection of sub-d support spans, but it's different and more complex as it's now also going in a 3rd dimension with the partial extrude. I have been studying and working on modeling a lot lately, but I haven't found anything on this which is why I am coming to this forum for help (that I believe exists for when your own methods can't take you any farther).

    perna said it all, I'll just add these for further reading.

    http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/SubdivisionSurfaceModeling

    http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Topology

  • Paskuihernandez
    Hi everyone!! I'm modeling ths piece and i'd like to ask you how would you model the tiny holes that the big one contains on it. This piece is going to be baked and imported to UE4 so i know i'll do the holes' normal map in photoshop or maybe designer and then applying a material in painter but i'm interested in the way this could be modeled. ^^

  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Paskuihernandez
    no illustration but these steps should be clear enough to follow as long as you're familiar with 3ds terms.

    -make a a grid. That is, a subdivided plane/quad.
    -inset by face
    -delete
    -project this onto geo with the needed curve (like the geo you have in your mesh)
    -shell modifier
    -subdivide to turn the square holes into circles

    all you really need to know is how to turn a quad into a circle with subdivision.

  • Paskuihernandez
    @perna i got all the steps but the projection part... you mean with booleans?
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Paskuihernandez

    You can project geometry onto other geometry. In many cases this it the only way to be efficient, so check whatever app you use for projection capabilities. It's the same as draping cloth over a shape.

    illustrations from online:



  • Paskuihernandez
    @perna oh ok, i know the ShapeMerge...i'll try it!! thanks!! ^^

  • Arnonious
    Hello!
    Im modeling a JBL speaker and im at the point i need to "represent" the speakers "grid/net" and have no idea how to do it XD.
  • Soviet
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    Soviet triangle
    @Arnonious Look literally four posts above yours.
  • Arnonious
    Soviet said:
    @Arnonious Look literally four posts above yours.
    i forgot to say i use Maya :smile:
    and arnold for that matter
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Arnonious said:
    Soviet said:
    @Arnonious Look literally four posts above yours.
    i forgot to say i use Maya :smile:
    and arnold for that matter
    So?
  • Arnonious
    perna said:
    @Paskuihernandez
    no illustration but these steps should be clear enough to follow as long as you're familiar with 3ds terms.

    -make a a grid. That is, a subdivided plane/quad.
    -inset by face
    -delete
    -project this onto geo with the needed curve (like the geo you have in your mesh)
    -shell modifier
    -subdivide to turn the square holes into circles

    all you really need to know is how to turn a quad into a circle with subdivision.

    so this means nothing to me
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Arnonious said:
    perna said:
    @Paskuihernandez
    no illustration but these steps should be clear enough to follow as long as you're familiar with 3ds terms.

    -make a a grid. That is, a subdivided plane/quad.
    -inset by face
    -delete
    -project this onto geo with the needed curve (like the geo you have in your mesh)
    -shell modifier
    -subdivide to turn the square holes into circles

    all you really need to know is how to turn a quad into a circle with subdivision.

    so this means nothing to me
    Because of two terms which are inconsistent between 3DS and Maya your entire capability to understand the post collapses? I would like to have a stern talk with your teacher.

    A face in 3DS is the same as a polygon.
    Inset is demonstrated in the following image. I found it by using the website "www.google.com"
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/27/89/37/278937724161be21dbb95c026200d2a1.png
    Shell you can just ignore.

  • Arnonious
    perna said:
    Arnonious said:
    perna said:
    @Paskuihernandez
    no illustration but these steps should be clear enough to follow as long as you're familiar with 3ds terms.

    -make a a grid. That is, a subdivided plane/quad.
    -inset by face
    -delete
    -project this onto geo with the needed curve (like the geo you have in your mesh)
    -shell modifier
    -subdivide to turn the square holes into circles

    all you really need to know is how to turn a quad into a circle with subdivision.

    so this means nothing to me
    Because of two terms which are inconsistent between 3DS and Maya your entire capability to understand the post collapses? I would like to have a stern talk with your teacher.

    A face in 3DS is the same as a polygon.
    Inset is demonstrated in the following image. I found it by using the website "www.google.com"
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/27/89/37/278937724161be21dbb95c026200d2a1.png
    Shell you can just ignore.

    thanks i guess

  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    Arnonious said:

    [...]

    -shell modifier

    [...]

    so this means nothing to me

    Actually there's a plug for this in Maya:

    https://lesterbanks.com/2015/05/getting-started-using-the-maya-shell-modifier/

    ...and for me as a 'Blenderite', "Shell Modifier" means adding thickness or volume: 

    https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/modifiers/generate/solidify.html

  • Przerywnik
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    Przerywnik polycounter lvl 4
    Hello Folks, im just wondering how the heck would you model this part super fast? What I know it was created in Modo and screenshot is taken from maya. Im wondering if are there any suppa fast tricks you can use to provide shapes like that? For example Sub-d modelling - and making a turbo smooth, or procedural bridging etc.  If there are any PROs who could explain me this example, would be great and really thankfull. Im always trying to solve this kind of riddles to incerase my speed workflow insead of each-poly modelling. Thanks!
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Hello Folks, im just wondering how the heck would you model this part super fast? What I know it was created in Modo and screenshot is taken from maya. Im wondering if are there any suppa fast tricks you can use to provide shapes like that? For example Sub-d modelling - and making a turbo smooth, or procedural bridging etc.  If there are any PROs who could explain me this example, would be great and really thankfull. Im always trying to solve this kind of riddles to incerase my speed workflow insead of each-poly modelling. Thanks!
    firstly model all parts seperatly. Dont attach them. Just the big shape, secondary and threshery. When you have put them in place. You can see how many segments the big cylinder needs to hold the Secondary shape. And when that is done, see if those segments are enough to hold the smaller part. if not, subdivide the mesh once and then add the smallest.
  • Paskuihernandez
    Also another thing you can do to be a bit faster but maybe with no so good results is to apply a chamfer to the hard edges so they create some support loops that will helps you to get the sub-d result in less time. But, with round shapes you'll need to fix some n-gons for sure manually.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    That shape is literally just a cylinder.
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    @Przerywnik for an optimised polygonal workflow, research for example a combined technique implementing boolean operands for hard surface subd content creation however results will tend to vary dependant upon object complexity plus alongside personal finesse working with your app/s of choice.
  • Przerywnik
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    Przerywnik polycounter lvl 4
    @Paskuihernandez
    @perna
    @sacboi
    @wirrexx
     Thank you for your reply folks!!  

    @sacboi
     thanks for the tip, gonna google that! English is not my native language, sometime i coudnt find a good technical keywords to put into google to find it :D briliant tip!
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    ...you're welcome, I'll also link a couple of resources as a kind of guide, that may help shed some light as to Boolean intergration or perhaps 'acceptence' as a viable technique for use in game res HS asset generation nowadays, as opposed to when I first started out:

    https://polycount.com/discussion/168610/3ds-max-zbrush-proboolean-dynamesh-hardsurface-workflow-tutorial/p1

    https://blendermarket.com/products/hard-surface-modeling-in-blender

    (...if you've time and can afford the fee, I'd strongly recommend checking out the Blender stuff, if nothing else there's some really interesting workflow demo's covering a wide array of methods, either common and uncommon)


  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    No, seriously. It's a cylinder.




  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    perna said:
    No, seriously. It's a cylinder.




    Move aside Piccasso.. WE GOT PERNASSO IN THE HOUSE!
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    Lol...took the words right out of my mouth :)
  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg polycounter
    sacboi said:
    ...you're welcome, I'll also link a couple of resources as a kind of guide, that may help shed some light as to Boolean intergration or perhaps 'acceptence' as a viable technique for use in game res HS asset generation nowadays, as opposed to when I first started out:

    https://polycount.com/discussion/168610/3ds-max-zbrush-proboolean-dynamesh-hardsurface-workflow-tutorial/p1

    https://blendermarket.com/products/hard-surface-modeling-in-blender

    (...if you've time and can afford the fee, I'd strongly recommend checking out the Blender stuff, if nothing else there's some really interesting workflow demo's covering a wide array of methods, either common and uncommon)



    That blender one is a gold mine of information.
  • Przerywnik
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    Przerywnik polycounter lvl 4
    perna said:
    No, seriously. It's a cylinder.




    emm, i was more thinking about that angle connector between the extruded part and main cylinder shape. How do you do that? :D sorry if you guys felt trolled, i should somehow mark it with red circle to be more exact : P
  • Klunk
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    Klunk polycounter lvl 4
    I think gusset is the word you're looking for :)

  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    @Przerywnik apologies if that was the impression given, so to be clear your query was totally legit by the way.

    Additionally these types of objects are typically cast (via mold) due too engineered CNC specific tasks they're designed too perforn under load in certain environments hence the additional 'gusset' for extra strength. An engine block also perfectly illustrates this process to full effect, in fact I'll link a Tutes+ series authored by Laurens Corijn, Modeling/UV Mapping/Texturing/Real-Time render a low poly game res Hot Rod in 3ds Max/Photoshop/IDE.

    It was actually one of the first 'class A' project's end to end I'd attempted back when initially published in 2009 and IMHO still relevant nowadays as then.

    Anyway if interested check out these vids relating to the engine which describes in detail a straight forward workflow wirrexx noted upthread, where simple shapes/primitives can be used to represent a complex object.

    https://cgi.tutsplus.com/tutorials/creating-a-next-gen-video-game-hot-rod-the-complete-workflow-part-3--cg-2247

    Cheers
  • Madeira3d
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    Madeira3d polycounter lvl 3
    Hi there,

    What do you think is the best topology? 
    Also would you model it like this topology wise?

    Cheers


  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Madeira: When you say "best", what do you mean? What is your definition of a good model? Do you feel that perhaps you've missed some rules and someone else could compliment your knowledge by pointing out mistakes? What are your own goals? I mean, the obvious ones. Is it uncertainty that prompts you to ask or is it that you seek the resolution to a specific issue? Sorry for this "answer" - I'm trying to understand the mental process and what goes into your deciding that a mesh is good enough.
  • Madeira3d
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    Madeira3d polycounter lvl 3
    Hi @perna, thank you for your help. So I’m modelling for smooth subdivision surfaces and if I subdivide the left geometry,it creates non smooth areas because of the spacing is far from regular, on the right results are good because polygons  are more uniform, but I also wanted maybe other modelling  topology alternatives to what I have done. Thanks
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Madeira3d said:
    Hi there,

    What do you think is the best topology? 
    Also would you model it like this topology wise?

    Cheers


    knockout version of your shoe base. base mesh as few polys as possible. Turbo smoothed using Smoothing groups. and look at how direction of the edgeflow on the extruded edges. 
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