How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • anthonybp
    Hi everyone,

    I need help with this shape. As soon as I'm trying to add control edges, it creates artifacts and I don't know what to do. I found a similar example in this thread earlier, but the artifacts are still there.

    Here's before adding control edges :


    Here's after adding control edges :


    And here are the artifacts I'm talking about, it's kind of intense :


    Thank you !
  • Soviet
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    Soviet triangle
    The horizontal line needs a support edge too.
  • anthonybp
    Soviet said:
    The horizontal line needs a support edge too.
    But if I add an horizontal support edge, it pinches like that :

  • Soviet
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    Soviet triangle
    Yes but don't loop all the way through the object, only around the cut thing.
  • anthonybp
    Soviet said:
    Yes but don't loop all the way through the object, only around the cut thing.
    May you give me a quick example, please ?
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    anthonybp said:
    Soviet said:
    Yes but don't loop all the way through the object, only around the cut thing.
    May you give me a quick example, please ?
    look back 2-3 pages, i have a great example on this.. look back 20-30.. Perna has.. Then look back another 50-60.. Earthquake, Perna, Me and so many more has shown great examples on how to get rid of theses issues. When it comes to curved surfaces to say. Dont do your cuts here , if you are, you will need so much more segments. Do them 

    Here, that way, you have natural supporting loops coming from your Cylinder. 

    and because i did them there
     I get these support loops. 




    I think i used 28 sided cylinder. 
  • anthonybp
    wirrexx said:
    anthonybp said:
    Soviet said:
    Yes but don't loop all the way through the object, only around the cut thing.
    May you give me a quick example, please ?
    look back 2-3 pages, i have a great example on this.. look back 20-30.. Perna has.. Then look back another 50-60.. Earthquake, Perna, Me and so many more has shown great examples on how to get rid of theses issues. When it comes to curved surfaces to say. Dont do your cuts here , if you are, you will need so much more segments. Do them 

    Here, that way, you have natural supporting loops coming from your Cylinder. 

    and because i did them there
     I get these support loops. 




    I think i used 28 sided cylinder. 
    I got it. You were right, I just didn't had enough loops around the cylinder, now it works like a charm :)
  • anthonybp
  • Lemenus
    Hello there.
    Ineed need help with unwrapping my model.
    If i unwrap with seams like on image, there will be visible uv seams, even with tri-planar projection. (maybe it will be hard to see on color texture, but it visible on all lighting textures like normals or specs)


    But without them uv island intersect with itself

    How Should i unwrap it?
  • anthonybp
    Hello everyone,

    I'm trying to reinforce a part of a model, but I'm not able to do it without artifacts. I looked a bit in this thread, but I couldn't find what I need.

    Here's the part I'm trying to add edge loops in :


    I want to be able to reinforce the pointy shape while keeping the curved shape of the model.

    Here's my attempt at doing so :


    And here's the problems that it creates :


    I tried reinforcing the vertical edge, but it creates the same artifacts, but vertically of course.

    If someone could help me or lead me in the right direction, it would be very appreciated.

    Thank you !
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 3
    Here is approximately how I would apporach that using 3ds MAx and Quadchamfer modifier


  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    Lemenus said:
    Hello there.
    Ineed need help with unwrapping my model.
    If i unwrap with seams like on image, there will be visible uv seams, even with tri-planar projection. (maybe it will be hard to see on color texture, but it visible on all lighting textures like normals or specs)


    But without them uv island intersect with itself

    How Should i unwrap it?
    Hey, you can probably get away with some skewed UVs as long as you're not putting on some UV-projected thicc pattern. Grab the red faces and move them up, then grab the green ones and move them down, like so:

    There will be room for padding in all places but that little armpit. Test and see if it works for you.
    Or you could triplanar your spec map as well, that'll hide the seams you're scared of.

  • Prime8
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    Prime8 polycounter lvl 4
    Lemenus said:
    Hello there.
    Ineed need help with unwrapping my model.
    If i unwrap with seams like on image, there will be visible uv seams, even with tri-planar projection. (maybe it will be hard to see on color texture, but it visible on all lighting textures like normals or specs)


    But without them uv island intersect with itself

    How Should i unwrap it?
    You need space between the parallel edges, I would rather just split the UVs than distort them.
    For example as marked red or green or a mix of both. Make sure the edges align exactly to avoid visible seams.


  • Jaroslav Grafskiy
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    Jaroslav Grafskiy polycounter lvl 4
    Hello, dear forum users.
    Thank you very much for this topic, it is very useful for the development of the 3d artist.
    Many thanks to all the people who respond to messages for your time and desire to share experience.

    I ask your help with modeling.
    I want to create a solid loader bucket shape. Tell me, is it advisable?

    Thanks again for your attention.
    Jargraf
  • Yano
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    Yano polycounter lvl 8
    Hello guys,
    Im modeling Fuel can, low poly model has some weird edges shading. This ugly shading is baked into normal map along with hi poly topology, What should I do to get rid of it?
    This is low poly model with one smoothing group on body, second one on bottom.


  • Paskuihernandez
    Hi @Yano , this weird effect is because of the N-gon you have there. Max is trying to triangulate the mesh so you need to set where has to be triangulate. Try to close the mesh like this and set the smoothing groups according to your uv seems. 
  • Yano
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    Yano polycounter lvl 8
    I tried triangulate, but problem still persists.


  • Paskuihernandez
    @Yano set the auto smoothing groups to 45
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Paskuihernandez : Your paintover makes no difference as that manual triangulation is identical to the automatic one.

    @Yano, if you show your reference image and upload the OBJ somewhere I'll help.
  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d polycounter lvl 4
    Yano said:

    What should I do to get rid of it?




    Make sure its also planar, but yeah, you've got one smoothing group across the entire mesh it seems. Hit autosmooth at 30-45 degrees
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 3
    You can use Weighted Normals to fix that. You can also add some more geo, but i would go with Weighted normals, check it out:



    More info and script in here:

    http://www.bytehazard.com/articles/wnormals.html

    Cheers!

  • anthonybp
    Hello,

    I'm trying to model this simple bottle cap, but I'm not able to make the spiral shape around the cap. My topology always create some pinching.

    If you guys can help me with an example or redirect me to any page on this post that can help me, it would be very appreciated.

    Thank you !

    Here's my reference :


    Here's my attempts :


  • Soviet
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    Soviet triangle
    Like in one of the previous examples in this grand topic, you can try making it straight and then just twisting the whole thing.

    This (https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2679537/#Comment_2679537) can also give you some idea about pesky cylinder work.

  • semo005
    Hey guys below is the image that I have doubt about how do you guys go about solving that weird pinching . It does not effect uvs so I was thinking whether it even matters to solve this pinching kinda problem. idk if this is the wrong place to post
  • Yerus
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    Yerus triangle
    When smoothing the mesh in wire mode do you see an arrow pointing towards the crack? If there is any, it means there are vertices unweld.
  • semo005
    No i dont I think it was caused because I changed the vertices position and my question was do you guys solve this because this does not effect in uv will it effect anywhere down the line like in final render or something..sorry if noob question new to 3d world
  • Yerus
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    Yerus triangle
    It's very likely it will affect the render. In UV editor what you actually see is the texture, not the final result, so their is no chance to check this from there.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    Hello,
    I'm trying to model an object that has a corner whose bevel edge loops run along a smooth curve. 
    1. The bevels in the corner need 3 spans to hold
    2. (&3) The fencing has created an unwanted sharp edge. I have tried to slide the edges apart, but it distorts the bevel.
    How can I hold the corner at #1 but diffuse the hard edge created?

    Thank you!
  • Thomas Doig
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    Thomas Doig polycounter lvl 5
    Hi blastframe,

    Could you perhaps show some more pics from different angles?
  • Yerus
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    Yerus triangle
    I would merge these vertices together and get rid of line 'a 'and line 'b', if possible of course:
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @Thomas Doig Here you are. Let me know if you need another.

  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @Yerus
    Thank you for the suggestion. It is a good idea, however I tried it and it's creating a pinch:

  • Yerus
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    Yerus triangle
    Are you using Maya? You have to Ctrl+Del to delete edges plus vertices involved. 
    And also, delete that middle edge of the arrow, so it becomes a square.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @Yerus  
    I'm using Cinema 4D. I did delete the edges and vertices as I understood your explanation. I also ran the Optimize command (similar to Maya's Merge/Cleanup Geometry command). I deleted the middle edge to create a quad, but it created a bump in the geometry when subdivided.


    Just to make sure it wasn't the Subdivision scheme, I exported the model and brought it into Maya (both are using Catmull-Clark N-Gon). Here's a screenshot from Maya. It is also creating the bump.

  • Yerus
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    Yerus triangle
    Can you post a picture of the subdivided mesh? It's hard to tell from this preview mode image.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @Yerus
    Sure, here's the subdivided mesh.


    I have also attached an .obj file with the original edge loop configuration. Thanks for your help.
  • Yerus
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    Yerus triangle
    Well, I tried some stuff, the only one that worked was pushing the edges further away.
    There is still a little bit of pinching, but I think that's due to unleveled topology, adjustable withs tweaks.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @Yerus
    Thank you so much :smile:

    That looks good. Can I see the wireframe on the unsmoothed topology (or an obj)?
  • Yerus
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    Yerus triangle
    No prob. Here you go! 
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    Yerus said:
    No prob. Here you go! 
    I really appreciate you working with me on this, @Yerus . Very kind of you.

    Thanks again.
  • Ghogiel
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    Ghogiel polycounter lvl 12
    Not sure what the end result should be...  but by simply deleting the back end, selected in red,
     subDing with smoothing groups, then extruding the back end back to where you wanted it again, that way the curve will not dip noticablty at the internal corner.


    All those support loop solutions where topology ends up weirdly stretching across a curved surfaces in ugly ways are probably best avoided



  • semo005
    Yerus said:
    It's very likely it will affect the render. In UV editor what you actually see is the texture, not the final result, so their is no chance to check this from there.

    oh sorry for late reply but thanks for the answer
  • sixbysix
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    sixbysix polycounter lvl 5
    I'm in the process of modeling a Minidisc cartridge (remember these?). Now they are rectangular but have two different corner radiuses. What would the best approach to modeling this be? I've tried a few but they all feel wrong. Thanks and cheers.

    Reference:


    Attempts (bottom row is subdivided):


  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    One method I'd suggest, is to bevel the corners and inset a support loop, then crease plus adding further loops to harden the control edge defining a rectangular shape.

    (Note - ngons can be used on planar surfaces once smoothed without throwing distortion or shading errors with subdiv applied)

     

  • sixbysix
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    sixbysix polycounter lvl 5
    Cheers sacboi, that helped! I did it a bit differently because I have to cut some more detail into it later, but here's what I got so far.

    Top view: 



    Detail:



    Looks good so far:



  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    Nice! also 'floaters' (floating geometry) can be used to bake down the fine disc case detailing shown on your ref.

  • sixbysix
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    sixbysix polycounter lvl 5
    sacboi said:

    Nice! also 'floaters' (floating geometry) can be used to bake down the fine disc case detailing shown on your ref.

    I’ve read about floaters but I'm unsure how to utilize them in C4D. Only ever read about them in context of Max. I might have to switch software here, read that xNormals would do it. It does sound like a huge timesaver as opposed to modeling every little detail.
  • Ghogiel
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    Ghogiel polycounter lvl 12
    sixbysix said:
    sacboi said:

    Nice! also 'floaters' (floating geometry) can be used to bake down the fine disc case detailing shown on your ref.

    I’ve read about floaters but I'm unsure how to utilize them in C4D. Only ever read about them in context of Max. I might have to switch software here, read that xNormals would do it. It does sound like a huge timesaver as opposed to modeling every little detail.
    floaters are software independent. Max has no special handling in their regard. They are just regular geometry and pretty much any baker can bake them to a normal/AO. only thing to note is to turn off backfaces so they don't cast shadows around the edges for AO bakes. I don't expect many people to be baking inside of max these days unless they specifically need max's tangent basis
  • HixaLupa
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    HixaLupa triangle
    Hello! I've done as much reading as I can, I keep seeing things that are almost the solution to my problem but ohmygod I'm so sick of faffing about with this. It's a dumb issue that I used to just ignore but I like to think I'm better than that now, but then I can't fix it so clearly I'm missing something. It's a small asset but one day it'll be a hero one and I'll still be pissing about with edge loops.

    So, I'm making a lantern. I want to extrude in the glass windows, keep them as the same mesh however, and preserve the roundness of the cylinder. So I can add retaining loops horizontally, but they result in this because there's no vertical ones. Vertical ones cause vertical pinching where it's hardening those edges.

    Heres the pinching vertically and you can see to the right where the horizontal pinching is happening.
    If someone could once and for all tell me how to fix this stupidity I'd be delighted. Oh, and in Maya terms pls if possible lol

  • Soviet
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    Soviet triangle

    Cylinders! Try this (https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2679537/#Comment_2679537). Wirrexx must be pretty tired of me linking it everywhere by this point.
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