How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • Plnr
  • SnowInChina
  • sixbysix
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    sixbysix polycounter lvl 5
    Hi guys,

    I’m a bit stuck one something that probably all of you find laughably easy. I’m in the process of modeling a shoe that has some rather tight curvature on some edges.

    I’m trying to get by with as few base polygons as possible to keep a smooth surface. If I just straight up model the section without looking at the underlying geometry, the subdivisions will soften the curves way too much (fig.1) 

    So I did pinch the top vertices together to have a tighter corner and that works but it looks kinda wonky to me? (fig. 2). What do you guys think, maybe I just need more geometry? But I’m trying to keep the surface as smooth as possible. So kind of unsure here.

    Any suggestions? Thanks and cheers.





  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 6
    You can try it this way



  • sixbysix
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    sixbysix polycounter lvl 5
    Hi .Wiki, thanks–That’s cool. It does introduce an N-Pole, though. Have to see if there will be pinching or not. Cheers!
  • Pultz
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    Pultz node
    The first one is my result and the second one is from Spyro, i got a pretty similar look in 3Ds max, but took me a really long time so wanted to hear you opinion on a good way to model that?
  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 6
    Model the stones separate. You can bake them down to a lowpoly version later. You don´t need to model everything as one piece.
  • Pultz
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    Pultz node
    .Wiki said:
    Model the stones separate. You can bake them down to a lowpoly version later. You don´t need to model everything as one piece.
    Thanks can you expand on that? the overhang is already a model by it self I have just set it on the tower. or are you talking about creating the small stones under as separate pieces and place them on?

  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 6
    Pultz said:
    .Wiki said:
    Model the stones separate. You can bake them down to a lowpoly version later. You don´t need to model everything as one piece.
    Thanks can you expand on that? the overhang is already a model by it self I have just set it on the tower. or are you talking about creating the small stones under as separate pieces and place them on?

    Yes, i would model the elements of the overhang and the roof out of seperate stones. Its much easier to adjust.
  • Pultz
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    Pultz node
    .Wiki said:
    Pultz said:
    .Wiki said:
    Model the stones separate. You can bake them down to a lowpoly version later. You don´t need to model everything as one piece.
    Thanks can you expand on that? the overhang is already a model by it self I have just set it on the tower. or are you talking about creating the small stones under as separate pieces and place them on?

    Yes, i would model the elements of the overhang and the roof out of seperate stones. Its much easier to adjust.

    thanks will try that do you got an example where you can see it done some where just for reference?

  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    Another technique to utilise, is to sculpt the details then apply an ffd/lattice modifier too deform the mesh into a stylised aesthetic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZcfLh8eaC4&list=PLA7A2AE046E0B5552&index=1

  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    Hi, anyone can help me how to remove or mix these two edges....? Thanks.


  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 3
    Dude you are not even trying! :expressionless:


  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    thanks but that was my last option. I was thinking that edges to merge with other edge.
  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d polycounter lvl 4
    iacdxb said:
    thanks but that was my last option. I was thinking that edges to merge with other edge.
    Yeah, just average them out. If you really want, you can terminate these loops (blue) and make these red edges cleaner.


  • Pain
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    Pain polycounter lvl 5
    Sr, edit:
    another problem, anyone please help me with this



  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    Too low poly, not enough segments to support smooth shading on a curved surface, hence the errors (artefacts) and FYI on the previous 10 pages alone a number of solutions have already been kindly offered. 

    EDIT:

    Learning anything new, starting with the basics usually provides an optimal foundation upon which to build a solid knowledge base, so I'd recommend aside from this insightful thread is to also research the PC Wiki for further Topology/Sub Division resources.  

  • Pain
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    Pain polycounter lvl 5
    @sacboi : Thank you, I used the cylinder 12 sides instead of 8 and it seems fixed. Besides, thanks for your advice, I've been searching also. 
  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    Hi guys... stuck in shape, I tried but i know it wrong but not getting idea to get its basic shape.
    I tried but its totally different which have to achieve.
    Anyone who can guide to get basic shape. Thanks.

    My try...


  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10


    start with 3 circles for the cornershape, you only need to work with 1/8th of the mesh and mirror the rest
    try to create as many shapes as possible with basic forms which you can scale on one axis
    proportions are a bit off, whatever
  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks for helping.
    Is it possible to drop some more screen shots from where to start.
  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    After that... here is my try.


  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10
    yeah, so i deleted the original after taking the screenshot
    so heres a quick one which shows the way


  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks and much appreciated.
    ...
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10
    you're welcome
  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    Hi, No happy with the dome topology, some shading issues. Anyone guide me any other way.

    Thanks.


  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10
    use a rounded cube


  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    I tried this but its not getting dome bottom corner edge.
    Even this corner edge is not correct.


  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    I think I fixed it....

  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    Hi,

    Anyone guide me to tackle these triangles and unfinished edges ?

    Thanks.




  • Rolfisway
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    Rolfisway polycounter lvl 2
    iacdxb said:
    Hi,

    Anyone guide me to tackle these triangles and unfinished edges ?

    Thanks.




    I'm not sure, but maybe smth like these?
  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    @iacdxb

    https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-modeling/training/modeling/clean-edge-flow-t-vertices/

    ...probably nail down the basics first which will in turn enable intuitively modelling an optimised edge flow.   

  • Nominous
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    Nominous polycounter lvl 5
    @iacdxb I assume you started with a subdivided plane and cut it up in order to create the silhouette. Instead, I'd block out the silhouette first, add support loops for subdivision surface modeling, and then fill in the space between for proper edge flow. Your workflow makes sense if the surface has a uniform curvature from left to right, in which case I'd combine it with a Blender-specific technique using the shrinkwrap modifier. Idk if other DCCs offer it, but you basically bend the subdivided plane to match the ref's curvature, model the actual high poly model using the silhouette-first method I mentioned, and then shrinkwrap the model onto the plane in order to match its curvature. If the surface is flat, though, there's no reason to use a subdivided plane.
  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks guys for your guidance.
    ...
  • juanoblagu
    So in order to lower the tri count in the model i have been putting these triangles around, i know it works like these but i wanted to ask very experienced or wise topology artists if you have any input about it. (like where to put the triangles better, or if the trick with quads is better than triangles) or anything! every opinion counts! thanks in advance.
    PD: my dream is one day work at a big studio epic games like or blizzard (i know its a big dream lol) but im telling this for reference maybe you guys know how they work their topology.

  • ArsenyZvonar
    So I've been modeling Tachikoma here and encountered some problem. Thing is, I'm trying to get proportions as close to the original model as possible. The shape required me to create multiple holes in different places and as I don't have much experience with 3ds Max overall, using ProBoolean seemed like a good idea to me as this way I'd get those holes exactly where I needed and of the exact size, but when I try to render it I'm getting weird shadows around those holes.


    I get that it happens because of its bad geometry since smooth groups are set correctly and I kinda get how geometry probably should've looked like so it doesn't cause these weird shadows, but again because of lack of experience I'm not exactly sure how do I do that. Are there any scripts I could use in this case? Or any other ways I could fix the geometry? Cuz for now the only way that comes to my mind is adding vertices and creating quads manually.


  • Eric Chadwick
    @ArsenyZvonar I've merged your topic into this Sticky. Go back a couple pages to find the solution. Also see the first post. 
  • Soviet
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    Soviet triangle
    So I've been modeling Tachikoma here and encountered some problem. Thing is, I'm trying to get proportions as close to the original model as possible. The shape required me to create multiple holes in different places and as I don't have much experience with 3ds Max overall, using ProBoolean seemed like a good idea to me as this way I'd get those holes exactly where I needed and of the exact size, but when I try to render it I'm getting weird shadows around those holes.

    I get that it happens because of its bad geometry since smooth groups are set correctly and I kinda get how geometry probably should've looked like so it doesn't cause these weird shadows, but again because of lack of experience I'm not exactly sure how do I do that. Are there any scripts I could use in this case? Or any other ways I could fix the geometry? Cuz for now the only way that comes to my mind is adding vertices and creating quads manually.


    Let me paste an example from a recent 80lv article, I hope they won't mind (https://80.lv/articles/002mrs-004adk-modeling-a-revoler-high-low-poly-uvs-baking/).




  • Adesh
    Im trying to model a fire hydrant, but i get some dents at the intersection when i do smooth preview.
    Any solutions please?Here's a better view

    I have attached the file

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth

    @Thanez ; and if you look at that example he has 4 faces but an 8 sided cylinder. That makes it 4+4 = 8.


  • Adesh
  • ArsenyZvonar
    @Thanez Thank you a lot, man! I'll certainly try it when I have time. Couldn't thank you earlier as I wasn't home for a while, haha. So do I get it right that in order to avoid such stuff, no matter the shape, I just need to make transitions between shapes as smooth as possible? Like, not going from square to circle, but rather from square to squarish circle and only then to actual circle thing?
  • bibiboo
    Cleaning up stray verts from Pro bool ops is a huge waste of time!

    Welding verts via increased thresholds is one alternative, but it leads to Imprecise holes even if the overall look is perfectly passable. 

    Cue this handy dandy little 3rd party helper. 

    Run your probool op as you normally would, before collapsing to a edit P or adding onto the stack run this:

    http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/cleanbool

    92ish% of the time it will catch most of the junk created by bools without affecting verts which maintain a shape. 

    That percentage may not sound truly impressive to those who want an evangelical solution, but it really has helped me in reducing clicks, mental fatigue and increasing time effeciency. 


  • annee
    Hi, guys! I have a serious problem with creating a rattan chair. I spent a lot of time trying to make it, but my chair is still crooked. It all started with the fact that I made an iron base, then I made a rattan plane and I tried to bend it. I had to connect rattan and iron base, and I decided to use rings shape for this. I deleted a couple of segments of polygons at the rings and connected them with rattan stripes and all this was tilted Probably it's one of crazy methods :D It seems to me that I'm doing everything wrong. Sorry for my English 
  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    @ArsenyZvonar
    Transitions should make as much sense as possible. You're merging two very different shapes, and you should give each shape's topology somewhere logical to go without altering either shape's topology dramatically or else it won't subdivide nor reflect as intended.
    An 8-sided cylinder subdivided twice will look indiscernible to a 32-sided cylinder. Would you rather work with an 8-sided transition to then subdivide it to 32, or work on a 32-sided collision?
    Also see Wirrex and bibiboo's posts. Pretty cool stuff.

    There's a couple of vids on YT I recommend every watch, as they absolutely solved all my problems:
    Chaikins curve 
    Catmull-clark
    Not all of it is super important, but the bits where he shows how the algorithms work toward generating the highpoly from your base mesh is really important. Understanding how that works that will tell you:
    -Why your base mesh should be as densely consistent as possible within each curved area. (E.G. Why your red painted lines would only have made your issue worse)
    -Why poles, triangles and ngons in an otherwise quadratic curved mesh will create pinching or other artifacts, and how to use them to achieve a desired effect.
    -Why double-edgeloops are a good idea.
    -Why nearly all rules can be broken within a flat, double-supported plane.
    -Why some people's "cheats" work, and what their limitations are.
  • Doguib7
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    Doguib7 polycounter lvl 5
    Hey there folks!
    I am starting a VFX project where I need to track a face then add a growing tip nose,(Something similar to Disney Pinocchio), tracking stuff I think is pretty easy but I am wondering about modeling, how can I manage it to stretch and have proper UVs or deformation, Nose should stay normal and suddenly starts growing some inches....

    I already have from base mesh the long version but it does not have same polycount...

    Any queue or tip would be appreciated!

    Thanks in advance masters!

    And well not late to mention... compositing stuff I thing should be a challenge!

    Here's a closer ref of what I need to model! Any hint would be appreciated!

    Using C4D...

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/gt46bntwm1xju6z/Nose ref.jpg?dl=0








  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    @Doguib7 The scope of your question is a bit large for this thread. Anyway, I would start with the elongated mesh and topology, and shrink it back to the normal nose shape, squeezing the loops as evenly as possible.

    I don't have a great suggestion on UVs and stretching, how much of an issue is the stretching here? Will this be using some stylized handpainted texture? Photoreal? Normal maps or Displacement? You may want to have a UV set for both nose states so you can blend textures appropriate for both as it grows. You can find some good tutorials on that in several of the terrain blending tutorials out there.
  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 6
    To reduce stretching you could uv the stretched and unstretched version. Render out one animation with the unstretched and one with the stretched uvs. To blend the meshes both need the same polycount and vertex-order. throttlekitty already suggested to do project the stretched topology to the base one, which should work.

    Then blend them in compositing. For the base pose you use the non stretched uvs, for the strechted pose you use the stretched uvs.
  • julienayheva
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    julienayheva polycounter lvl 3
    Hi Guys , There's something i'm trying to model and here's the picture of the part i'm trying to model but


     but i don't know how  i could join those complex shapes or just create them. Here's what i did :

    You can see the transition is not the same and i really don't know how to make it. Can someone give me some tips on how to tackle this project?


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