How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • abronee
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    abronee node
    Why are you trying to model the radio all as one piece, split it up like it is in real life. Look at the bottom of the radio, you can see the side panels are recessed and separate elements, the front, back and top panels are all separate as well... You're just making more work for yourself trying to get the whole object as one element...


    I tried to separate the different geo, but im not quite getting the look of the insert of the outer geo which gives the shown shadows
  • Mossbros
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    Mossbros polycounter lvl 6
    @abronee
    I think you are over thinking this pretty hard...
    Just think of how it's constructed and break it up into those pieces, it's literally blocks on blocks.
    Do a blockout of the model before thinking of adding loops and stuff, it will make things much easier.  




  • Filip5
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    Filip5 polycounter lvl 4
    Hey guys, I wonder how would I approachvmoddeling a mattress. I tried to use heightmap, but its somewhat blurry at part close to the camera. I post the image as it should be rendered.



    now, what I would like to go for, is this



    Not sure if heightmap would work for this, as the render is close to camera. Also, how would i approach creating this and then bending it all over mattress shape ?

  • Thanez
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    Thanez polycounter lvl 4
    @Filip5 M8, show your attempt first if you want modeling input. It would also help to figure out what your goal is.
    Either way, for a game model, a normal map should suffice. For a viz type realisticrender I would do a heightmap, using displacement and make it maybe 2048 for a single tile. Either way I would take care to model it realistically with seams and all. All of these patterns are made flat and sewn together into matress shapes, so by deconstructing reference pictures you should be able to model it realistically, UV those parts flat, and tile textures on there. Once you're tiling textures, you can get them as crisp as needed.
    Either way I'd create the pattern from scratch, either in photoshop or a modeling software just to learn.
  • GlowingPotato
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    GlowingPotato polycounter lvl 5
    Hi,

    Any advice on how to maintain curvature in this mesh ? I made a few attempts but no luck so far. 

  • Filip5
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    Filip5 polycounter lvl 4
    Hi,

    Any advice on how to maintain curvature in this mesh ? I made a few attempts but no luck so far. 

    Not sure what you mean by that, but as far as I can tell, edge loops affect curvature uppon smoothing the mesh. Add them close to the edge and that edge is going to be sharp. If you add loop further from egde, its going to be more curvy..
  • Vexod14
  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    Most likely a question that's been resolved on more occasions in this thread than I've had hot dinners. So at a glance there's not enough faces to preserve the shape via a cylindrical object.

    (checkout bottom of page 149, more useful advice from @EarthQuake

  • Thanez
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    Thanez polycounter lvl 4
    @GlowingPotato
    M8, what the other people here said, but for highpoly cylinders such as these, try to remember that the natural edges of the cylinder will become your edgeloops.

    The only thing I did to keep this consistent was to try to keep the polygons by the supported edges square. That way I get an indication at once how hard my edges will be, by looking at the width of the edge below my first cut:

    Edit: A little tip: If you do your cylinders with 4 sides as a base number and multiply that up to where you want to be, you'll end up with a cylinder that can be mirrored on both axises, so you'll only have to do a quarter of the work.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    32 sides is more than enough to get a smooth and bakeable mesh, but i did one with 40 and kept the edges smooth "for bake" 

    32 sides here using double smoothing technique. 


  • Pixter
    Hello. At the moment im working on one project, that based on Unity WebGL, so that meens that all 3d graphics need to be well optimized. And part of my job is to model that lantern (in image). I want to understand how to model these arabic patterns and what i need to use for that? Im thinking that i need to make everythign in geometry and bake it to diffuse map, so it will be in texture. I dont know maybe it will be easier to make those patterns in substance or there other way? Need your advices, guys!
  • VinnyAle
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    VinnyAle said:

    many of us on this forum have shown this before. Please take your time and go back, i showed this method on the page before and Perna, Earthquake, Eric and so many more has shown fixes for this. The key to working with curved objects is to have a the edgeflow stay as consist as possible. If you add 2 edges to close to eachother on a curved surface, you'll get bulges, hard surfaces, pinches etc. Try to have them evenely spread. Now, this is just one method of many. This is a old Example that i did. But the principal is there. 
    me a couple of days ago

    @perna
    a couple of years ago.. 



  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    Agreed.

    Also a reminder that information linked in this thread's Opening Post, Page 1, lists a huge library of content relevant too Subdivision Surface Modelling, as follows:

    Subdivision Surface Modeling on the Polycount Wiki
    Shared: My Technical Talk content by Perna
    How u model dem shapes? Image Ripped! by cookedpeanut

  • VinnyAle
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:

    many of us on this forum have shown this before. Please take your time and go back, i showed this method on the page before and Perna, Earthquake, Eric and so many more has shown fixes for this. The key to working with curved objects is to have a the edgeflow stay as consist as possible. If you add 2 edges to close to eachother on a curved surface, you'll get bulges, hard surfaces, pinches etc. Try to have them evenely spread. Now, this is just one method of many. This is a old Example that i did. But the principal is there. 
    me a couple of days ago

    @perna
    a couple of years ago.. 



    Thx man for help me.
    i tried this but don't fix yet :( 
    I will search more information in others  thread's 




  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    VinnyAle said:
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:

    many of us on this forum have shown this before. Please take your time and go back, i showed this method on the page before and Perna, Earthquake, Eric and so many more has shown fixes for this. The key to working with curved objects is to have a the edgeflow stay as consist as possible. If you add 2 edges to close to eachother on a curved surface, you'll get bulges, hard surfaces, pinches etc. Try to have them evenely spread. Now, this is just one method of many. This is a old Example that i did. But the principal is there. 
    me a couple of days ago

    @perna
    a couple of years ago.. 



    Thx man for help me.
    i tried this but don't fix yet :( 
    I will search more information in others  thread's 




    How many segments do you have on your cylinder?
    Just for the sake of it, how does it turn out when you use a 32 sided cylinder vs a 48 sided? Do you get better visuals? Less is not always better and More is definatly not better, but Enough is good. You're cylinder, needs to be able to hold up The Extruded edges! =) 
  • hersheybar
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    hersheybar polycounter lvl 2
    This is probbably really simple but I'm getting stuck with extruding along an adge. 

    Then after the extrude this happens




    I  can't seem to get rid of it and I've also tried deleting the face and moving the vertixes back but can't seem to figure it out.
  • VinnyAle
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:

    many of us on this forum have shown this before. Please take your time and go back, i showed this method on the page before and Perna, Earthquake, Eric and so many more has shown fixes for this. The key to working with curved objects is to have a the edgeflow stay as consist as possible. If you add 2 edges to close to eachother on a curved surface, you'll get bulges, hard surfaces, pinches etc. Try to have them evenely spread. Now, this is just one method of many. This is a old Example that i did. But the principal is there. 
    me a couple of days ago

    @perna
    a couple of years ago.. 



    Thx man for help me.
    i tried this but don't fix yet :( 
    I will search more information in others  thread's 




    How many segments do you have on your cylinder?
    Just for the sake of it, how does it turn out when you use a 32 sided cylinder vs a 48 sided? Do you get better visuals? Less is not always better and More is definatly not better, but Enough is good. You're cylinder, needs to be able to hold up The Extruded edges! =) 
    42 segments, maybe i can try with 48 or more
  • VinnyAle
    This is probbably really simple but I'm getting stuck with extruding along an adge. 

    Then after the extrude this happens




    I  can't seem to get rid of it and I've also tried deleting the face and moving the vertixes back but can't seem to figure it out.

    i have the same problem without extrude 
  • onionhead_o
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    onionhead_o polycounter lvl 11
    you need to remove the backface and the face on top> then cap the border
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    VinnyAle said:
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:

    many of us on this forum have shown this before. Please take your time and go back, i showed this method on the page before and Perna, Earthquake, Eric and so many more has shown fixes for this. The key to working with curved objects is to have a the edgeflow stay as consist as possible. If you add 2 edges to close to eachother on a curved surface, you'll get bulges, hard surfaces, pinches etc. Try to have them evenely spread. Now, this is just one method of many. This is a old Example that i did. But the principal is there. 
    me a couple of days ago

    @perna
    a couple of years ago.. 



    Thx man for help me.
    i tried this but don't fix yet :( 
    I will search more information in others  thread's 




    How many segments do you have on your cylinder?
    Just for the sake of it, how does it turn out when you use a 32 sided cylinder vs a 48 sided? Do you get better visuals? Less is not always better and More is definatly not better, but Enough is good. You're cylinder, needs to be able to hold up The Extruded edges! =) 
    42 segments, maybe i can try with 48 or more
    No need for that tbh. Now you've picked let's say 40 segments. so the 40 segments means. 
    1. You have 40 lines (edges) going around in a curve. 
    2. i want you inbetween one of those edges, cut in /add another Segment, doing so, you already have "support loops" from your original cylinder. Following along? 
    3. Check the picture, i explain like a proofy.. not! but still. This is overkill, but i just want to you to understand the benefiets of having a mesh "dense" enough to support the cuts you make into it. So you do not have to add 100 extra edges to support once turbosmoothing. I want to clarify, that this is mostly for Curved objects, because on a flat plane, you can have ngons, tris and whatevers and it'll not be seen. If it's not going to deform in an animation. 


  • Amiminoru
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    Amiminoru polycounter lvl 3
  • VinnyAle
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:

    many of us on this forum have shown this before. Please take your time and go back, i showed this method on the page before and Perna, Earthquake, Eric and so many more has shown fixes for this. The key to working with curved objects is to have a the edgeflow stay as consist as possible. If you add 2 edges to close to eachother on a curved surface, you'll get bulges, hard surfaces, pinches etc. Try to have them evenely spread. Now, this is just one method of many. This is a old Example that i did. But the principal is there. 
    me a couple of days ago

    @perna
    a couple of years ago.. 



    Thx man for help me.
    i tried this but don't fix yet :( 
    I will search more information in others  thread's 




    How many segments do you have on your cylinder?
    Just for the sake of it, how does it turn out when you use a 32 sided cylinder vs a 48 sided? Do you get better visuals? Less is not always better and More is definatly not better, but Enough is good. You're cylinder, needs to be able to hold up The Extruded edges! =) 
    42 segments, maybe i can try with 48 or more
    No need for that tbh. Now you've picked let's say 40 segments. so the 40 segments means. 
    1. You have 40 lines (edges) going around in a curve. 
    2. i want you inbetween one of those edges, cut in /add another Segment, doing so, you already have "support loops" from your original cylinder. Following along? 
    3. Check the picture, i explain like a proofy.. not! but still. This is overkill, but i just want to you to understand the benefiets of having a mesh "dense" enough to support the cuts you make into it. So you do not have to add 100 extra edges to support once turbosmoothing. I want to clarify, that this is mostly for Curved objects, because on a flat plane, you can have ngons, tris and whatevers and it'll not be seen. If it's not going to deform in an animation. 


    Man you save my life, thx  for yours techniques :)


  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    VinnyAle said:
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:
    wirrexx said:
    VinnyAle said:

    many of us on this forum have shown this before. Please take your time and go back, i showed this method on the page before and Perna, Earthquake, Eric and so many more has shown fixes for this. The key to working with curved objects is to have a the edgeflow stay as consist as possible. If you add 2 edges to close to eachother on a curved surface, you'll get bulges, hard surfaces, pinches etc. Try to have them evenely spread. Now, this is just one method of many. This is a old Example that i did. But the principal is there. 
    me a couple of days ago

    @perna
    a couple of years ago.. 



    Thx man for help me.
    i tried this but don't fix yet :( 
    I will search more information in others  thread's 




    How many segments do you have on your cylinder?
    Just for the sake of it, how does it turn out when you use a 32 sided cylinder vs a 48 sided? Do you get better visuals? Less is not always better and More is definatly not better, but Enough is good. You're cylinder, needs to be able to hold up The Extruded edges! =) 
    42 segments, maybe i can try with 48 or more
    No need for that tbh. Now you've picked let's say 40 segments. so the 40 segments means. 
    1. You have 40 lines (edges) going around in a curve. 
    2. i want you inbetween one of those edges, cut in /add another Segment, doing so, you already have "support loops" from your original cylinder. Following along? 
    3. Check the picture, i explain like a proofy.. not! but still. This is overkill, but i just want to you to understand the benefiets of having a mesh "dense" enough to support the cuts you make into it. So you do not have to add 100 extra edges to support once turbosmoothing. I want to clarify, that this is mostly for Curved objects, because on a flat plane, you can have ngons, tris and whatevers and it'll not be seen. If it's not going to deform in an animation. 


    Man you save my life, thx  for yours techniques :)


    Looks good, do these as a excersice every time you start your 3D program to make it As normal as possible
  • oraeles77
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    oraeles77 polycounter lvl 2
    im using blender.

    im making a sign, and I would like to add a dent/bend to one of the corners. any suggestions of a good way to do this?


  • lophead25
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    lophead25 polycounter lvl 5
    Hey guys, I've been trying to go at making ropes in Maya using curves or Zbrush using IMM Curves but all are tedious and look odd/floaty. Open to any ideas :smile:  Here are some images:

    My attempts -





    The concept I am following from Andreas Husballe in the Artstation Challenge - 


  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    oraeles77 said:
    im using blender.

    im making a sign, and I would like to add a dent/bend to one of the corners. any suggestions of a good way to do this?


    add segment on the plane, and add a noise modifier. Or just move the vertices manually. 
  • Singularity101
    HI there guys so I tried modeling this in cinema with splines with no success I thought about marvelous designer but I think there must be a better way less time-consuming way. 

    I need to model the threads on the sofa  I attached.

    EDIT: these are my failed attempts within cinema4d using 2 bodies on 2 splines one as a rail one as the object on which to clone to. And my cloner is set to blend between the taller and the shorter at the end.ails wi
  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    lophead25 said:

    Hey guys, I've been trying to go at making ropes in Maya using curves or Zbrush using IMM Curves but all are tedious and look odd/floaty. Open to any ideas :)  Here are some images:

    My attempts -





    The concept I am following from Andreas Husballe in the Artstation Challenge - 

    The ropes are under tension as displayed in your reference concept image. So try manipulating the curve/s too convey that, also where the bowstring is tied at both ends of the crossbow stave, the knots should be positioned closer to the stave. 

  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter
    @Singularity101 can you post progress on what you have thus far?                       
  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    Pixter said:

    Hello. At the moment im working on one project, that based on Unity WebGL, so that meens that all 3d graphics need to be well optimized. And part of my job is to model that lantern (in image). I want to understand how to model these arabic patterns and what i need to use for that? Im thinking that i need to make everythign in geometry and bake it to diffuse map, so it will be in texture. I dont know maybe it will be easier to make those patterns in substance or there other way? Need your advices, guys!

    Apologies for the late reply and Happy New Year by the way, hope you have a good one :)

    Anyway, I'd agree plus there's a few other performance considerations to take into account when reading the documentation, so all I can suggest is too prototype/test your work and if needs be further iterate until you've optimised a workable solution, good luck with it.

    Cheers.

  • GlowingPotato
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    GlowingPotato polycounter lvl 5
    Can someone advice on how to achieve better edge flow in this piece? Having lost of pinching and i think my corners looks bad.


  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Can someone advice on how to achieve better edge flow in this piece? Having lost of pinching and i think my corners looks bad.


    Cut your intrude/Extrude on faces instead of where the edges are. I've been showing this a couple of time now on the last 3-4 pages.. That even i am making a mistake on this.. This is a fast one with shittier topology and 32 sided mesh. You see a small bulge on the edges but those will be gone when baked and textured. I could've tightened it up but... I'm getting bored on showing the same example
  • Singularity101
    sacboi said:
    @Singularity101 can you post progress on what you have thus far?                       
    I am sorry for not reading the rules but I updated my post with my failed attempt. 
  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    ^ Hey no problem, all good and yeah there's a fairly noticeable offset between the two, so one option is to try aligning the 'rail spline' along the top tube of the mesh object? 

  • Singularity101
    sacboi said:

    ^ Hey no problem, all good and yeah there's a fairly noticeable offset between the two, so one option is to try aligning the 'rail spline' along the top tube of the mesh object? 

    Yeah.. no. I this is a result of moving both rails rotating the one or the other sometimes both. I also tried playing with the banking inside the cloner. It just won't work, I even tried with different types of splines ( bezier etc...) Posting here was my last resort.


  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter
    Ah...I see, hmm...then I suppose you'd found no joy with your problem on the C4D forums as well?
  • Rekov
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    Rekov polycounter lvl 2
    Is one of these generally acknowledged as 'better' for creating a subdivided section of a circle? To me the one on the right seems to conform slightly more to the correct arc.

    Does the same rule hold true if the 'ends' of those arcs were extended out straight?
  • Thanez
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    Thanez polycounter lvl 4
    @Rekov the left one should preserve your curve the best, as the length of each segment in the circle is the same. Equal length of- and equal angle between edges = best circle.
  • Rekov
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    Rekov polycounter lvl 2
    I feel like I keep running into the exact same circumstance and never being able to figure it out. It's these 'concave' corners on a curved surface. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get supporting geometry for a subdivision surface in so that the result appears smooth:

  • Prime8
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    Prime8 polycounter lvl 4
    Rekov said:
    I feel like I keep running into the exact same circumstance and never being able to figure it out. It's these 'concave' corners on a curved surface. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get supporting geometry for a subdivision surface in so that the result appears smooth:

    This has been explained in detail, even on this page at least 3 times.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Rekov said:
    I feel like I keep running into the exact same circumstance and never being able to figure it out. It's these 'concave' corners on a curved surface. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get supporting geometry for a subdivision surface in so that the result appears smooth:

    Like @[email protected] ; said. 

    But to explain it once again, this is a question of enough supporting and Consistensy in your edgeflow to hold up that shape..  i started of with a simple plane, divided it once in the middle and twice in length. Turbosmoothed 2 times to have enough geo to work with without getting Problems. 
  • Rekov
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    Rekov polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks. I think the part that I wasn't getting, and I'm asking just to be sure that I 100% have it now, is that you can't control the edge geometry independently of the level of geometry that the curve itself has. Specifically, edge geometry that isn't perpendicular to the axis of the curve.

    So if I wanted to make the corners of this panel tighter, the first step would be increasing the geometry on the curve itself, correct? Or am I wrong about that? I could move the 'vertical' edges without breaking curvature, but I couldn't move the 'horizontal' ones, so I would need to have more segments to the total circle.

  • King Mango
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    King Mango polycounter lvl 10
    What am I missin in the corner here? it pinches when smoothed. I don't want to interrupt the exterior radius so I collapsed the loops and left that angled quad. Coulda sworn that was gonna work!

  • Prime8
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    Prime8 polycounter lvl 4
    Rekov said:
    Thanks. I think the part that I wasn't getting, and I'm asking just to be sure that I 100% have it now, is that you can't control the edge geometry independently of the level of geometry that the curve itself has. Specifically, edge geometry that isn't perpendicular to the axis of the curve.

    So if I wanted to make the corners of this panel tighter, the first step would be increasing the geometry on the curve itself, correct? Or am I wrong about that? I could move the 'vertical' edges without breaking curvature, but I couldn't move the 'horizontal' ones, so I would need to have more segments to the total circle.

    Problem with panels like this is  that the cut is in the center of the quads, otherwise you could just place the corners closer to the support loops.
    You can try to move the egdes at the corner a bit closer and see if you can live with the bit of shading error.
    More geo works, though might be overkill in the end, depends on what result you want.

    Imho I would not model panels lines like that using subd anymore, if possible I would use bevel or custom normal or even just texture it, depends as well on the result I want.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Prime8 said:
    Rekov said:
    Thanks. I think the part that I wasn't getting, and I'm asking just to be sure that I 100% have it now, is that you can't control the edge geometry independently of the level of geometry that the curve itself has. Specifically, edge geometry that isn't perpendicular to the axis of the curve.

    So if I wanted to make the corners of this panel tighter, the first step would be increasing the geometry on the curve itself, correct? Or am I wrong about that? I could move the 'vertical' edges without breaking curvature, but I couldn't move the 'horizontal' ones, so I would need to have more segments to the total circle.

    Problem with panels like this is  that the cut is in the center of the quads, otherwise you could just place the corners closer to the support loops.
    You can try to move the egdes at the corner a bit closer and see if you can live with the bit of shading error.
    More geo works, though might be overkill in the end, depends on what result you want.

    Imho I would not model panels lines like that using subd anymore, if possible I would use bevel or custom normal or even just texture it, depends as well on the result I want.


    try moving the edges in like this (i noticed i forgot some edges, but you'll notice which once when you move them, what edge i meant that i forgot)
  • King Mango
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    King Mango polycounter lvl 10
    Solved mine. I just remodeled it with increased radius segments from 48 to 144 and that reduced the tension enough to where any distortion is no longer noticeable.
  • Rekov
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    Rekov polycounter lvl 2
    @prime8 - When I posted my first attempted in here, I was putting the edge of the panel along the edges of the quads, which I thought was why it wasn't working out. I don't know exactly what I was doing wrong there, but it seems to be working a lot better now. And maybe there are better ways of doing panels. I could probably do it in nDO fairly easily, or with bevels, but I would like to be able to do with subdiv at least. And I still think it can produce a slightly better result. I like my meshes to be mathematically precise, and it helps to have an actual model when baking panels that extend across multiple UV islands.

    @wirrex - Thanks, that worked perfectly! I don't know why I didn't just try it, except that it seems a little inelegant.

    Here are both versions side by side. They both seem decent enough, so I can probably use either situationally. Unless either of you thinks one version is a fundamentally better technique.



  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Rekov said:
    @prime8 - When I posted my first attempted in here, I was putting the edge of the panel along the edges of the quads, which I thought was why it wasn't working out. I don't know exactly what I was doing wrong there, but it seems to be working a lot better now. And maybe there are better ways of doing panels. I could probably do it in nDO fairly easily, or with bevels, but I would like to be able to do with subdiv at least. And I still think it can produce a slightly better result. I like my meshes to be mathematically precise, and it helps to have an actual model when baking panels that extend across multiple UV islands.

    @wirrex - Thanks, that worked perfectly! I don't know why I didn't just try it, except that it seems a little inelegant.

    Here are both versions side by side. They both seem decent enough, so I can probably use either situationally. Unless either of you thinks one version is a fundamentally better technique.



    Looks good! Try to do it with less geo but with floating geometry :D 
  • Rekov
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    Rekov polycounter lvl 2
    I've gotten good at using floating geometry for normals, but I've never figured out a seamless way to bake AO with floating geometry.
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