its a cylinder like shape that transitions to flat surface. I tried few approaches, the best one was to create cylinder, cut 3/4 of it and then extrude the side as flat faces. That works great up until when I need to make the flat corner transition:
I tried adding a lot more topology in that area but just couldn't get that shape, any tips on how to tackle transitions like that?
Hi all, noticed this slight pinching in default 3ds max viewport while doing my practice using the methods shown in this thread. I know its the perfectionist in me killing it, 3d programs like max and maya are not cad tools however just need some advice on this that should I just let it go or is there some other way on this age old issue. I ll get a lot of heat for this I know lol cause I have been using this thread from page 1 during my 3d modelling warm-up sessions its just one of those moments while working I am like lets talk about it on this awesome thread maybe I missed something.
EDIT: I also tried a double TS method (16side cylinder applied TS 1 made the extrusion with inset first then usual support loops and then TS 2) pretty much the same result as the images below. Also I did a quick bake test in Substance Painter and well I dont see that slight pinch that is visible in max viewport so guess its just me making my life difficult lol
I am trying to separate the glass from the cockpit body, but I haven't found a good way to do so. I want the separated glass to be perfect 90 degree angles like the blueprint. When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
Hi all, noticed this slight pinching in default 3ds max viewport while doing my practice using the methods shown in this thread. I know its the perfectionist in me killing it, 3d programs like max and maya are not cad tools however just need some advice on this that should I just let it go or is there some other way on this age old issue. I ll get a lot of heat for this I know lol cause I have been using this thread from page 1 during my 3d modelling warm-up sessions its just one of those moments while working I am like lets talk about it on this awesome thread maybe I missed something.
The thing is, you will always have a pinch that is visible or barely visible, if you use less edge segments, try to land the geometry between the cylinders segments and use them as supporting loops. I used a 24 sided Cylinder, the more i add to my cylinder the "harder" i can get the edges to be.
so this is my example with a 24 sided cylinder. The higher segments the "tighter" you can make the edges without getting pinches.
its a cylinder like shape that transitions to flat surface. I tried few approaches, the best one was to create cylinder, cut 3/4 of it and then extrude the side as flat faces. That works great up until when I need to make the flat corner transition:
I tried adding a lot more topology in that area but just couldn't get that shape, any tips on how to tackle transitions like that?
sorry for the late one, i struggled myself with that one because i dont really know what's happening under or what gun that is. References should be clean and if possible in a better view.
Can't really see what's Happening under the gun or what gun that is.
I am trying to separate the glass from the cockpit body, but I haven't found a good way to do so. I want the separated glass to be perfect 90 degree angles like the blueprint. When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
hey mate sorry for the late answer, i acctually did a type of fix for you yesterday, but PC Crashed on me, which lost me my progression. So you are on the right way, but try to built the cage of your main mesh.
So, what i did was, i modelled the entire body (without cuts or booleans). Then i subd it a couple of time. i Did a retopo on top of my highpoly mesh and used shrink wrap
I am trying to separate the glass from the cockpit body, but I haven't found a good way to do so. I want the separated glass to be perfect 90 degree angles like the blueprint. When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
hey mate sorry for the late answer, i acctually did a type of fix for you yesterday, but PC Crashed on me, which lost me my progression. So you are on the right way, but try to built the cage of your main mesh.
So, what i did was, i modelled the entire body (without cuts or booleans). Then i subd it a couple of time. i Did a retopo on top of my highpoly mesh and used shrink wrap
Thanks for your effort and I really appreciate it.
I am trying to separate the glass from the cockpit body, but I haven't found a good way to do so. I want the separated glass to be perfect 90 degree angles like the blueprint. When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
hey mate sorry for the late answer, i acctually did a type of fix for you yesterday, but PC Crashed on me, which lost me my progression. So you are on the right way, but try to built the cage of your main mesh.
So, what i did was, i modelled the entire body (without cuts or booleans). Then i subd it a couple of time. i Did a retopo on top of my highpoly mesh and used shrink wrap
Thanks for your effort and I really appreciate it.
@wirrexx you are a rockstar mate! I was using 32 sides and trying both offset and direct edge extrude as you can see in examples however that one crucial piece was to use the vertical segment for the hard crease which you showed from there it was just adding a pair of extra edge loops to tighten up that pinch and voila I can now sleep. Thank you!!!!!
Those who may stumble here also note you can add more edge loops around the base of extrusion to get super sharp extrusion, I tried that however ignore this for baking as you will need to give more roundness to your hard edges anyways for AA, distance view and mipmaps etc.
I am trying to separate the glass from the cockpit body, but I haven't found a good way to do so. I want the separated glass to be perfect 90 degree angles like the blueprint. When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
hey mate sorry for the late answer, i acctually did a type of fix for you yesterday, but PC Crashed on me, which lost me my progression. So you are on the right way, but try to built the cage of your main mesh.
So, what i did was, i modelled the entire body (without cuts or booleans). Then i subd it a couple of time. i Did a retopo on top of my highpoly mesh and used shrink wrap
Alright, so I tried the shrinkwrap techniques and while it made the shading a bit better, I still notice artifacts here. Since my topology is incompatible for bevels, what should I do as a solution to these artifacts?
If you're working off the reference image? then there appears to be a distinct hard edged border rather than a smooth transition between the two adjoining regions so I'd suggest modeling that shape as a separate object.
If you're working off the reference image? then there appears to be a distinct hard edged border rather than a smooth transition between the two adjoining regions so I'd suggest modeling that shape as a separate object.
I actually want to make my own version of it with the technique I just used. While inaccurate, it's precise. The reference image is only to show what it is
I am trying to separate the glass from the cockpit body, but I haven't found a good way to do so. I want the separated glass to be perfect 90 degree angles like the blueprint. When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
hey mate sorry for the late answer, i acctually did a type of fix for you yesterday, but PC Crashed on me, which lost me my progression. So you are on the right way, but try to built the cage of your main mesh.
So, what i did was, i modelled the entire body (without cuts or booleans). Then i subd it a couple of time. i Did a retopo on top of my highpoly mesh and used shrink wrap
Alright, so I tried the shrinkwrap techniques and while it made the shading a bit better, I still notice artifacts here. Since my topology is incompatible for bevels, what should I do as a solution to these artifacts?
IronLover64 said: When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
Also worthwhile to note, when cutting into a mesh, giving some thought too topology design from the outset will often determine output as shown by the boolean operation. So lateral loops instead of a longitudinal edge flow and the result would've required minimal 'cleanup'
I am trying to separate the glass from the cockpit body, but I haven't found a good way to do so. I want the separated glass to be perfect 90 degree angles like the blueprint. When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
hey mate sorry for the late answer, i acctually did a type of fix for you yesterday, but PC Crashed on me, which lost me my progression. So you are on the right way, but try to built the cage of your main mesh.
So, what i did was, i modelled the entire body (without cuts or booleans). Then i subd it a couple of time. i Did a retopo on top of my highpoly mesh and used shrink wrap
Alright, so I tried the shrinkwrap techniques and while it made the shading a bit better, I still notice artifacts here. Since my topology is incompatible for bevels, what should I do as a solution to these artifacts?
Thanks for that, but the real challenge of this mesh is that the line separating the body and cockpit are 90 degree lines while your solution's separation line is curved downwards.
IronLover64 said: When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
Also worthwhile to note, when cutting into a mesh, giving some thought too topology design from the outset will often determine output as shown by the boolean operation. So lateral loops instead of a longitudinal edge flow and the result would've required minimal 'cleanup'
This is a dumb thing to day, but while it could be a decent solution, I am not able to find a good way to execute this without failing. Is there a tutorial for this? And thank you.
@IronLover64 I would combine the already good advice given here. Use a guide mesh and shrink wrap, as in the video, but use a more fitting topology for the mesh on top. In addition to that I would use a data transfer modifier to transfer the shading of the guide mesh. It does make thinks more complicated but it is worth it, depending on how you proceed with your mesh editing you will have to utilize vertex groups to limit the data transfer. Crude example:
@IronLover64 I would combine the already good advice given here. Use a guide mesh and shrink wrap, as in the video, but use a more fitting topology for the mesh on top. In addition to that I would use a data transfer modifier to transfer the shading of the guide mesh. It does make thinks more complicated but it is worth it, depending on how you proceed with your mesh editing you will have to utilize vertex groups to limit the data transfer. Crude example:
IronLover64 said: When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
Also worthwhile to note, when cutting into a mesh, giving some thought too topology design from the outset will often determine output as shown by the boolean operation. So lateral loops instead of a longitudinal edge flow and the result would've required minimal 'cleanup'
This might be a decent solution, but is there a tutorial for making this kind of mesh? Every attempt I've made goes horribly wrong
IronLover64 said: When I use booleans, it creates artifacts. Is there a better way to do this? (reposed for precision reasons)
Also worthwhile to note, when cutting into a mesh, giving some thought too topology design from the outset will often determine output as shown by the boolean operation. So lateral loops instead of a longitudinal edge flow and the result would've required minimal 'cleanup'
This might be a decent solution, but is there a tutorial for making this kind of mesh? Every attempt I've made goes horribly wrong
Okay, this is probably a really simple one for you guys, but I', wondering what the best workflow is to not propagate support loops all over the mesh when doing additional details. My solution here is working because these are flat surfaces, but it's quite ugly and there must be a more beautiful way to solve this, right? Thankfull for any hints.
@sixbysix what do you mean by "it's ugly"? The cage of the subdiv surface? What's this mesh for? It might not matter if the cage is ugly if it shades right
@sixbysix what do you mean by "it's ugly"? The cage of the subdiv surface? What's this mesh for? It might not matter if the cage is ugly if it shades right
Yep. It's a SubD model, here's how the isoparms look like. Doesnt look like proper edge flow.
Pre planning your topology approach if there are likely additional detail editing/iterations further along the modeling process, I've personally found generally streamlines a given workflow to a degree however dependent on an intended goal for finalisation too begin with.
Pre planning your topology approach if there are likely additional detail editing/iterations further along the modeling process, I've personally found generally streamlines a given workflow to a degree however dependent on an intended goal for finalisation too begin with.
@sixbysix go a bit above and few pages back, I and wirex shared the workflow to this that work on curves so your surface is flat and should work for this too.
I have to add some details in the flat areas, I'm trying not to make it too hard on myself later Just came up with a solution that works for me.
I mean, it is a flat surface, so i would not care to have it quaded. And if this is a doorway for a game, i would simple not do a hp version of it I would keep it low, with beveled edges to make it smoother.
And the last one is if i am going to sculpt on it in zbrush, i make a mesh with even quads and tesselate it 3 or more times before exporting.
I want to make the intersection of the main body and the wing as shown on the physical model. The slope angle is very narrow and it's curved, so it creates issues. Is there a better way to model this? Booleans don't work well.
IronLover64 why do you insist on continuing to edit a sub divided mesh? I would've thought by now our combined replies too your requests thus far were helpful in providing direction toward a more straightforward modeling approach?
IronLover64 why do you insist on continuing to edit a sub divided mesh? I would've thought by now our combined replies too your requests thus far were helpful in providing direction toward a more straightforward modeling approach?
IronLover64 why do you insist on continuing to edit a sub divided mesh? I would've thought by now our combined replies too your requests thus far were helpful in providing direction toward a more straightforward modeling approach?
You're right
take your picture, put it in affinity or Photoshop and draw over it how your edgeflow should go, this can visually help you to build it in 3D
IronLover64 why do you insist on continuing to edit a sub divided mesh? I would've thought by now our combined replies too your requests thus far were helpful in providing direction toward a more straightforward modeling approach?
You're right
take your picture, put it in affinity or Photoshop and draw over it how your edgeflow should go, this can visually help you to build it in 3D
Hey guys, I wonder what might be causing these shadow stripes on model. May it be geometry ? Not sure if posting into right thread but not really sure if this is modeling issue or lightmap. Lightmap is cranked up to 2k. Those two parts are modeled as separate parts
Hello, new here. Mostly I do motion graphics stuff which doesn't require much modelling but I'd like to get better during this time. I'm probably approaching this totally wrong, and could use some help.
Here is my reference, plus my full model and one of my reattempts. I cannot for the life of me to get the thumb area to shade correctly. Once I try to create the curvature the shading falls apart. Thanks in advance.
Take my comment with a grain of salt since I'm practicing myself but I think the problem here might be that the mesh doesn't conform to the shape? Here's my quick take, it shades without issues:
Take my comment with a grain of salt since I'm practicing myself but I think the problem here might be that the mesh doesn't conform to the shape? Here's my quick take, it shades without issues:
Thank you for your response. I had flattened my mesh to troubleshoot. Mainly I am having shading issues around poles. Your mesh is neglecting the area I am having the most trouble with (circled below), here is my latest progress: I found a few models of the exact mouse on turbosquid, and I tried to look at their topology but they also seemed to have a few poles. Perhaps I am over complicating the mesh in pursuit of perfection which is just beyond my capabilities right now.
Hi! i'm new to polycount. A friend told me this would a good place to ask help for topology. I've been trying to model Ribs across cylinders but there's a lot of pinching. Tried to reroute some loops but i made a mess.
@navneethdodla94 Start by blocking out the shapes and matching the cylinder segments near the intersections. Try to minimize the amount of superfluous geometry by using existing cylinder segments as support loops for additional operations. Avoid adding support loops and secondary details too early in the process as this will lock in the existing geometry and make the mesh a nightmare to work with.
In this shape the segment count on the smallest horizontal cylinder is determined by the size and position of the triangular gusset. This same process of evaluating the shapes and matching the segment count is repeated for the slightly larger perpendicular cylinder and again for the largest vertical cylinder.
Work through all of the intersection areas until the segment counts are reasonably uniform. This shape will resolve cleanly, in all quads and with minimal geometry, but there may be some edge cases where it's more efficient to use triangles or n-gons in the transition areas to avoid creating an overly dense mesh that's difficult to edit. A good block out should be the jumping off point for adding details and support loops.
There's more than one way to approach this and different packages have different capabilities but here's two approaches that provide clean geometry, decent shape accuracy and minimal re-work. Some of this process could be streamlined with further use of modifiers but the purpose of this is to illustrate what's going on inside the mesh. Subdivision modeling is an approximate process so
it's all about balancing the trade-offs between editing efficiency and
shape accuracy. Forethought and neatness are helpful but perfect can be
the enemy of good enough.
In the process shown below the alignment difference between the cylinder is
taken up inside of the support loops. This requires some minor cleanup
work which can be done quickly by using tools like merge by distance,
snap and merge, loop select and edge dissolve, cut edge loop, Tris to
Quads, etc.
How much cleanup work there is to do depends on how well the shape intersections matched, how the topology was routed, how the software handles chamfers, what the order of operations was and which tools were used. The overall goal is to be efficient by using modifiers and automated tools wherever possible, minimizing manual cleanup and keeping modeling operations non-destructive for as long as possible.
Steps shown below: Block out the basic shapes, matching the segments in
the intersection areas. Add in additional support geometry. Use Boolean
unions to join the basic shapes. Add in secondary shapes and details.
Add support loops with a chamfer / bevel operation. Split, mirror and merge down any overlapping areas or stray geometry.
Here's an alternate workflow that uses a different order of operations with wider tolerances. This strategy requires less manual cleanup but is also less accurate since some of the edges along the cylinder walls are skewed. Since this difference is minor and spread out over a wide area it subdivides without creating any major artifacts. Whether or not this is acceptable for the project is up to the artist. It's also possible to quickly straighten the skewed edges using a constrained move snap to vertex operation.
Steps shown below: Block out the basic shapes. Add in support geometry.
Merge the shapes with Boolean union operations and use merge by distance
to remove all stray geometry. Add secondary shapes and details. Create
support loops with a chamfer operation. Use the snap and merge function
to resolve any triangles or n-gons.
This is not pointed at anyone in particular but more of a general note: As a courtesy to other artists and as an investment in your professional growth, please take the time to research, test and evaluate existing topology layouts and modeling strategies.
Objects with multiple shape intersections are a great opportunity to
learn by synthesizing the basic fundamentals used to construct each
individual shape and apply them to creating something more complex. If we were to use this shape as an example, pages 175, 173, 172, 171, 170, 169 all contain detailed write ups on similar shape intersections.
The key to learning is taking the time to research, test and evaluate the results of different strategies. Part of the evaluation process is to ask for feedback but it's also important to be self aware and to provide context by describing what problems you have identified, what strategies you have tried and how you would like to improve the results.
Again this isn't a critique of any one person but rather a personal reflection on what I regularly see. Self directed motivation and education are two top recurring questions and I think it's something we can work to improve. It's not about discouraging people from asking for help but rather encouraging them to self evaluate and provide context that can facilitate learning.
Whoa! Can't believe someone actually went through the effort of making rebuilding it and making such a detailed explanation. Thanks a lot @FrankPolygon. I guess i messed up because the rib was an after thought. If i had planned it early on by blocking i could have tired to figure it out but i remained stubborn and wanted to fix it with what i had.
One thing i could not figure out was how to add cuts and reroute loops on curved surfaces because it always seems to deform the flow of highlights when i use the knife tool to add loops. And since i'm transitioning from maya to blender i didnt know how to add edge flow to curved surfaces.
I'll go through 175,173 and 172, rebuild it in blender
@navneethdodla94 Not a problem, glad it was helpful. Thank you for being a good sport about tying your question to my thoughts on learning at the end of my previous post. That topic was on my mind for the last couple of weeks and just thought it was worth sharing.
A shape that consistently fights multiple modeling strategies and tools is a good indicator that there may be a problem with the underlying geometry. Much of the topology strategy is decided early on so it's often worth revisiting the block out stage and resolving these issues at that level. Deciding when to toss existing work and start over with a clean block
out isn't always an easy decision but it sometimes ends up being faster
and less work in the long run.
When adjusting topology layouts it's best to rely on
tools that constrain the operations to the underlying geometry and
preserve the existing shapes. Manual operations without constrains tend
to bring things out of alignment and this can generate undulations and
other artifacts when subdivision is applied. The overall goal is to preserve the basic shapes and maintain order when subdivision is applied.
The way the intersecting geometry directly connects to the edge segments of the cylinders, without leaving a sufficient offset to act as support geometry, is likely the cause of most of the smoothing artifacts in the original model.
If the knife tool caused additional issues it would be interesting to see a few examples but I suspect that some of the issues there may have been related to stray geometry which that tool can generate. The knife tool has it's place but adding all of the perpendicular loops with it would be a lot of manual work and moving the loops without edge constraints could introduce a lot of issues.
Here's some alternate tools that would be helpful for modeling this shape. In Blender, most tools have useful functions hidden in the menu or accessible with secondary operators so it's helpful to look at the documentation and review at all of the features for each tool. Since this isn't a Blender specific thread I've put the links in the spoiler below:
Curved surfaces can present a number of challenges whilst designing an effective cage especially when cutting shapes that in some situations individual vertex placement can be crucial too preserve a quality smoothed surface. I've a limited background in automotive visualisation and various key principles are usually adhered to when a 'class A' reflective finalised output is an intended goal so I'd suggest if you're interested in further researching optimised topology guides, then this series of resources may prove useful in specifically defining not only the 'how' but more essentially the 'why' something is done.
Also a quick comment on your posted query. N-poles are common and a requirement for proper topology which normally occurs via modeling 'organic' curvature based objects so at a glance the circled region should shade nicely with better placement.
I did not plan on saying this, but I will shamefully admit that I have no idea how I should model the wing and main body. This is what my second attempt looks like and there are many problems. The biggest mysteries is how the topology should be done and what the modeling process should be. I am desperately requesting for help.
IronLover64 said: "I am desperately requesting for help."
I think you should delete what you have. Re-read the previous posts with the help already given. Really take time and understand what each person has spent their time showing you. Its already all there. Before you model anything, plan out your model a bit before you start. Maybe re-read it all again.
It hurts to throw your work out, but I've done this over and over myself and it does help. You've been learning and are better than when you first started this model and it will go quicker with better results. Just try a few more times, maybe go through this entire thread a few pages a day, and then try a few more times.
Replies
EDIT: I also tried a double TS method (16side cylinder applied TS 1 made the extrusion with inset first then usual support loops and then TS 2) pretty much the same result as the images below.
Also I did a quick bake test in Substance Painter and well I dont see that slight pinch that is visible in max viewport so guess its just me making my life difficult lol
Can't really see what's Happening under the gun or what gun that is.
hey mate sorry for the late answer, i acctually did a type of fix for you yesterday, but PC Crashed on me, which lost me my progression. So you are on the right way, but try to built the cage of your main mesh.
So, what i did was, i modelled the entire body (without cuts or booleans). Then i subd it a couple of time. i Did a retopo on top of my highpoly mesh and used shrink wrap
@wirrexx you are a rockstar mate!
I was using 32 sides and trying both offset and direct edge extrude as you can see in examples however that one crucial piece was to use the vertical segment for the hard crease which you showed from there it was just adding a pair of extra edge loops to tighten up that pinch and voila I can now sleep. Thank you!!!!!
Those who may stumble here also note you can add more edge loops around the base of extrusion to get super sharp extrusion, I tried that however ignore this for baking as you will need to give more roundness to your hard edges anyways for AA, distance view and mipmaps etc.
Use a guide mesh and shrink wrap, as in the video, but use a more fitting topology for the mesh on top.
In addition to that I would use a data transfer modifier to transfer the shading of the guide mesh.
It does make thinks more complicated but it is worth it, depending on how you proceed with your mesh editing you will have to utilize vertex groups to limit the data transfer.
Crude example:
take your picture, put it in affinity or Photoshop and draw over it how your edgeflow should go, this can visually help you to build it in 3D
Here is my reference, plus my full model and one of my reattempts. I cannot for the life of me to get the thumb area to shade correctly. Once I try to create the curvature the shading falls apart. Thanks in advance.
Take my comment with a grain of salt since I'm practicing myself but I think the problem here might be that the mesh doesn't conform to the shape? Here's my quick take, it shades without issues:
I found a few models of the exact mouse on turbosquid, and I tried to look at their topology but they also seemed to have a few poles. Perhaps I am over complicating the mesh in pursuit of perfection which is just beyond my capabilities right now.
One thing i could not figure out was how to add cuts and reroute loops on curved surfaces because it always seems to deform the flow of highlights when i use the knife tool to add loops. And since i'm transitioning from maya to blender i didnt know how to add edge flow to curved surfaces.
I'll go through 175,173 and 172, rebuild it in blender
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/edges.html#edge-slide
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/subdividing/loop.html#loop-cut-and-slide
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/subdividing/vertex_connect.html
To add support loops around existing geometry try using tools like bevel (profile value of 1), offset edge slide and inset.
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/subdividing/bevel.html#options
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/subdividing/loop.html#offset-edge-slide
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/duplicating/inset.html
To create, merge down and cleanup geometry try using tools like loop select + variants, bridge edge loops, dissolve edges, transform snapping, auto merge, limited dissolve, triangulate faces, triangles to quads, etc.
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/selecting.html#edge-loops
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/edges.html#bridge-edge-loops
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/basics/deleting.html#dissolve-edges
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/scene_layout/object/editing/transform/control/snap.html#transform-snapping
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/mesh_options.html#auto-merge
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/basics/deleting.html?dissolve#limited-dissolve
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/faces.html?quad#triangulate-faces