How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Madeira3d

    See how this design is really just three quads, and you can subdivide and subdivide that as you need more.

    I tend to think in terms of these very simple 3d grids/voxels. Flow control happens down at the polygon level, so it means that even a coarse mesh of this style has a lot of control.

    To accompany this approach try practising transitioning between different numbers of sides and segments in an n-gon. Say a rectangle with its sides divided into 3, 12, 3 , and 7 .The 3 from the left needs to flow into the 12 on the right and the 3 up top needs to flow into 7 on the bottom. This practice will unlock many secrets of modeling if you really pay attention to what you're doing.

    another advantage of the grid approach is localised error (c). If a vert is out of place, you don't get bad shading over a large area, you get something which may even look like a natural depression or defect, wear and tear, whatever.

    Just to make it clear - the idea isn't to make these big, dense quad meshes, but to resolve all main flow issues when the mesh is just a bunch of crude boxes. Every time you subdivide this to add detail it will resolve beautifully, you can just keep dumping in as much detail as you want. 
    This kind of thing in conjunction with the chamfer modifier becomes very powerful, as it allows your these meshes that are super-crude cages, like 3d pixel art, but the final rendered items are just pristine, perfect curves and rounded corners.

    I don't even know if I'm helping, I just said a bunch of stuff. Here's the image. Check out that red. I made the wireframe red like that because it really hurts my head, it's so trippy.



    A - means, I'm too bored to write this part
    B - Chicago yo whats up eyyyyy





  • Yogev
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    Yogev node
    Hello there,

    I have this piece that I'm working on, and I was wondering if you guys have any idea on how to fix the topology/ edge flow. 


     I beveled it to be able to hold the shape when smoothing it. As I expected, the three lines that resulted made a sharp edge appear when smoothing it.
    So what I tried to do was to connect the edges in a different way, to eliminate that sharp edge. That however, didn't go very well, as there is still a bit of a weird shape going on, smooth or not.

    It is especially noticeable when putting next to another shape.

    Any ideas on how to fix this issue? Should I use something other than bevel to hold the shape? (I tried just putting some edge loops, but it gave a similar result)
  • Paskuihernandez
    This should work: 
  • Yogev
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    Yogev node
    This should work: 
    Thank you for your comment. I had an attempt at connecting the edges like you suggested, though there is still a weird edge in there. 

  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d polycounter lvl 4
    Yogev said:
    This should work: 
    Thank you for your comment. I had an attempt at connecting the edges like you suggested, though there is still a weird edge in there. 

    Your edges are too tight, and too few. Add more supporting geometry so your polygons aren't so large/stretched apart, and make sure your support loop edges/chamfers aren't super tight. :)
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    @Yogev Yeah, as the previous poster commented. Evenly spaced topology will enable correct shading behaviour under most lighting conditions especially on curved surfaces, not the 'bumpy uneveness' as displayed in your posted images.    

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    sacboi said:

    @Yogev Yeah, as the previous poster commented. Evenly spaced topology will enable correct shading behaviour under most lighting conditions especially on curved surfaces, not the 'bumpy uneveness' as displayed in your posted images.    

    You cant kill the entire "issue" or artifact with your topology. Curved surfaces need to be Consistent. You know, almost even spacing between edges. 

    i have the same issue but less visible.  Ignore the edge in the middle just added it for fun. 
  • Yogev
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    Yogev node
    wirrexx said:
    sacboi said:

    @Yogev Yeah, as the previous poster commented. Evenly spaced topology will enable correct shading behaviour under most lighting conditions especially on curved surfaces, not the 'bumpy uneveness' as displayed in your posted images.    

    You cant kill the entire "issue" or artifact with your topology. Curved surfaces need to be Consistent. You know, almost even spacing between edges. 

    i have the same issue but less visible.  Ignore the edge in the middle just added it for fun. 
    I see what you mean. I thought not enough edges might be the problem, I was hoping to avoid messing with the shape too much. I'll definitely look at your example when I go and fix this shape.
    Thanks for the help.
  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5

    Hello,

    I am having some issues beveling an inset for subd and was hoping someone out there could teach me.


    The first is a corner that includes an open face. The open face creates a nasty transition when subdivided:



    The second is advice on how to terminate the bevel for a triangle that flows into a flat shape:


    My model is attached if needed.

    Thank you!

  • Rolfisway
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    Rolfisway polycounter lvl 2

    Hello,

    I am having some issues beveling an inset for subd and was hoping someone out there could teach me.


    The first is a corner that includes an open face. The open face creates a nasty transition when subdivided:



    The second is advice on how to terminate the bevel for a triangle that flows into a flat shape:


    My model is attached if needed.

    Thank you!

    Hello. I think, you could do smth like this.

  • mrgkirq
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    mrgkirq polycounter lvl 3

    any idea how to get this on Curved Surface?

  • blastframe
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    blastframe polycounter lvl 5
    @Rolfisway, thank you, I'll give that a shot!
  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d polycounter lvl 4
    @mrgkirq

    Model the pieces flat. project them onto the helmet using ShapeMerge/FFD (in max atleast, probably equivalent in other packages)


    @ 5:40

  • AlexanderLawrence
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    AlexanderLawrence polycounter lvl 13
    I'm almost done modeling a collaborative robotic arm, but I've hit a roadblock. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to model the blue cap on the last joint of the arm. It looks like it should be made from the intersection of a cylinder and a tapered capsule-like shape, but what exactly?

    The grooves that give access to the screws are not a problem for me. It's just the overall shape of that weird cap that's giving me fits. Could one of you hard-surface experts give me some hints?


  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    @AlexanderLawrence studying this shape which for me there's a clear indication of it's CAD (solid double precision) design ethos, basically akin too most manufactured machined products in the modern era however that said for a 'close' approximation via a parametric workflow, probably a combination of techniques i.e. Boolean operands, proportional editing, modifier stack and a bit of manual tweaking, non-destructively of course.

    So for simplicity's sake I'd quad model each facet of the object separately then merge/transition them without hopefully throwing shading/distortion errors once subd is applied. No doubt a challenge for sure, any way I'll have a look at it and post a result in a couple of days or so just snow'd under with work ATM.
  • Yogev
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    Yogev node


    So I made this shape, and I was just wondering if the topology look okay, especially around the half cylinder area. I'm not 100% this is the best it can be. Should I change modify it somehow to make it look better, or is it good just the way it is?
  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d polycounter lvl 4
    Yogev said:
    Should I change modify it somehow to make it look better, or is it good just the way it is?


    Looks okay. Could remove some dense edges, and flow the edges a bit better for subdivision, which I'm assuming this is for.  Highlighted edges were added to assist in maintaining shapes too.


  • Yogev
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    Yogev node
     So I think I might be missing something here with this new piece. Another curved surface with shading issues. I thought maybe the problem might be not enough edges at first, but despite adding more the problem still seem to be there, so maybe I just need to cut it differently?



    And this is the base shape, which I cute into the different pieces:

  • Revel
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    Revel greentooth
    Just did a quick and dirty edit roughly 3-4 mins on the mesh. Please try to understand the concept of subd before attempting to do hard surface stuff, this thread literally filled with similar questions over and over again and people doesn't seem to read any of the fundamental basics being explained many times before.

  • Yzii
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    Yzii null
    Hi guys ! I have encountered this interesting topology issue ( at least for me ) when working on one of concept from Oscar Cafaro. How would you properly model this kind of spherical indent on sharp edge?  I kinda struggle with clean topology here ...
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Yogev said:
     So I think I might be missing something here with this new piece. Another curved surface with shading issues. I thought maybe the problem might be not enough edges at first, but despite adding more the problem still seem to be there, so maybe I just need to cut it differently?



    And this is the base shape, which I cute into the different pieces:

    My Mesh is by all means not perfect. But the steps are there to make you understand. I started with a plane and extruded it using Turbosmootmodifier. This to see that the curve is Both even in spacing and too see that the curve is correct. 

    I Then Applied a edit poly on top of it to work with what i have. And noticed in this case, that the curve needed more segments. This is where i added another turbosmooth and another edit poly on top of it. AS you see i cut my "panels" inbetween my existing topology. 



    You could also model it flat and cut in the bevels. When done, you add a turbosmooth modifier and then bend modifier. I do not recommend this mostly because your mesh probably would land on a higher account. But i will recommend it, cause sometimes it gets you a faster results.
  • Yogev
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    Yogev node
    wirrexx said:

    My Mesh is by all means not perfect. But the steps are there to make you understand. I started with a plane and extruded it using Turbosmootmodifier. This to see that the curve is Both even in spacing and too see that the curve is correct. 

    I Then Applied a edit poly on top of it to work with what i have. And noticed in this case, that the curve needed more segments. This is where i added another turbosmooth and another edit poly on top of it. AS you see i cut my "panels" inbetween my existing topology. 



    You could also model it flat and cut in the bevels. When done, you add a turbosmooth modifier and then bend modifier. I do not recommend this mostly because your mesh probably would land on a higher account. But i will recommend it, cause sometimes it gets you a faster results.
    Just to be sure I follow you, is "edit poly" the same as using the "multi cut" tool in Maya?
    What I fail to understand, is why do you cut inbetween the existing topology, instead of using the edges you already have? What is the advantage of that?
    I thought about cutting a flat plane and the apply a modifier of sort to bend it. I might give that a go too, but it might actually be more complicated. I try to not goo to high with the poly count if I can. 
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Yogev said:
    wirrexx said:

    My Mesh is by all means not perfect. But the steps are there to make you understand. I started with a plane and extruded it using Turbosmootmodifier. This to see that the curve is Both even in spacing and too see that the curve is correct. 

    I Then Applied a edit poly on top of it to work with what i have. And noticed in this case, that the curve needed more segments. This is where i added another turbosmooth and another edit poly on top of it. AS you see i cut my "panels" inbetween my existing topology. 



    You could also model it flat and cut in the bevels. When done, you add a turbosmooth modifier and then bend modifier. I do not recommend this mostly because your mesh probably would land on a higher account. But i will recommend it, cause sometimes it gets you a faster results.
    Just to be sure I follow you, is "edit poly" the same as using the "multi cut" tool in Maya?
    What I fail to understand, is why do you cut inbetween the existing topology, instead of using the edges you already have? What is the advantage of that?
    I thought about cutting a flat plane and the apply a modifier of sort to bend it. I might give that a go too, but it might actually be more complicated. I try to not goo to high with the poly count if I can. 
    I think in Maya it is when you subdivide the mesh and continue working on it. In 3Ds max its just a modifier i can put above the smoothed version so it is none destructive workflow. And i cut in between those edges because the mesh itself does not contain enough segments to work with to get the wanted results. This was just to show you how i would to it. i Couldve easly gone up to as many segments as in your shot to work with existing edges. But with my mesh, i have less control points therefore easier to work with. It is always good to work with as less control points as possible. 
  • Elarionus
    I'm working on a ship based off of some concept art, and the shapes are very bubbly, and I'm having a hard time both creating them and putting them together. I've been trying to get the engine to look right especially, with how one side of it sorta curves inward to a sphere at the front of the engine intake. It seems like it would be super simple, but it's proving to be the hardest thing I've ever modeled.



  • Yogev
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    Yogev node
    wirrexx said:
    I think in Maya it is when you subdivide the mesh and continue working on it. In 3Ds max its just a modifier i can put above the smoothed version so it is none destructive workflow. And i cut in between those edges because the mesh itself does not contain enough segments to work with to get the wanted results. This was just to show you how i would to it. i Couldve easly gone up to as many segments as in your shot to work with existing edges. But with my mesh, i have less control points therefore easier to work with. It is always good to work with as less control points as possible. 
    Well I tried changing the topology on the higher mesh a bit, and I think it looks a bit better now.


    I also had a go at making it with less edges, and when smoothing, there is a noticeable gap between the panels.

  • Kanni3d
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    Kanni3d polycounter lvl 4
    Yogev said:
    wirrexx said:
    I think in Maya it is when you subdivide the mesh and continue working on it. In 3Ds max its just a modifier i can put above the smoothed version so it is none destructive workflow. And i cut in between those edges because the mesh itself does not contain enough segments to work with to get the wanted results. This was just to show you how i would to it. i Couldve easly gone up to as many segments as in your shot to work with existing edges. But with my mesh, i have less control points therefore easier to work with. It is always good to work with as less control points as possible. 
    Well I tried changing the topology on the higher mesh a bit, and I think it looks a bit better now.


    I also had a go at making it with less edges, and when smoothing, there is a noticeable gap between the panels.

    Less edges, the worse it is. Have more geometry to support those details is what everyone was getting at :)
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Modell it flat and bend it. 

  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Elarionus
    easy-peasy:
    -model out everything as flat shapes, just like in the concept
    -extrude all the shapes.
    -modify profiles to be either smooth or flat according to the shading in the concept
    -mode the parts on the depth axis until they are in the correct relative position

    You've started much too soon with detail work. Block out first, unless you want to spend ten to twenty times as much time as other artists making the exact same thing.

    Also keep in mind that this is not a concept. It's a bunch of blobs. 
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    AlexanderLawrence said:

    I'm almost done modeling a collaborative robotic arm, but I've hit a roadblock. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to model the blue cap on the last joint of the arm. It looks like it should be made from the intersection of a cylinder and a tapered capsule-like shape, but what exactly?

    The grooves that give access to the screws are not a problem for me. It's just the overall shape of that weird cap that's giving me fits. Could one of you hard-surface experts give me some hints?

    Apologies for the very late feedback on your issue, modelling this piece. Basically starting from a low poly cubesphere, then minor manual tweaks with proportional editing alongside mirror/symmetry modifier too create a close enough match:


  • Mad_Rabbit
    Has anyone ever tried to make corn husk objects or have any idea how to model them to look as close to reality as possible?

    The main cage (metal parts) is easy peasy, but I find myself struggling with all the weaving/ bending parts :s
    Any ideas how to approach all those crazy parts?

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Has anyone ever tried to make corn husk objects or have any idea how to model them to look as close to reality as possible?

    The main cage (metal parts) is easy peasy, but I find myself struggling with all the weaving/ bending parts :s
    Any ideas how to approach all those crazy parts?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r7jA6EAlg4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t-oCeApEI8
  • Mad_Rabbit
    wirrexx said:
    Has anyone ever tried to make corn husk objects or have any idea how to model them to look as close to reality as possible?

    The main cage (metal parts) is easy peasy, but I find myself struggling with all the weaving/ bending parts :s
    Any ideas how to approach all those crazy parts?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r7jA6EAlg4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t-oCeApEI8
    Thanks for the links, but this takes care only partly of the challenge I'm facing.
    You see all those additional bendings and differences in sizes of "rope"? That's where my struggles are (I might not clearly stated my problem before).
    For example I've used helix for the handle and the bottom part, but it's extremely uniform. Maybe the good quality texture would help? Or would you model mode detailed "ropes" and then would add not that detailed texture on top of it?
    Also, the main weaving part - it's very diverse in sizes and forms. Should the texture take care of this or it should be my input to model every single part to look realistic and non-repeating? I wonder how other, more experienced people would approach this stuff.
    ps. I'm modeling in 3ds max and can't use any other modeling software (has to be model history stack).
  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg polycounter
    Just grab some edge loops and scale them up and down. It only takes a minute to double click like 30 edge loops and scale them. Then repeat for some other random edge loops. Then just check for blatant overlap or clipping geometry. Or since you're in max you can try dropping a noise modifier on the stack and set the scale correctly. 
  • Lemenus
    How to model such curved bevel

    without distorions (stretches)? 

  • Nominous
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    Nominous polycounter lvl 6
    @Lemenus I'd add a vertical edge loop to the middle of those three faces and distribute every edge loop evenly. This is more for making the silhouette of the curvature less jagged. A horizontal edge loop across all of them would probably help more to lessen the artifacts.

    I mainly recommend modeling a high poly and baking a normal map later in order to override the bent face artifacts on the low poly. It would help to soften your edges too like how they are in the ref.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Careful saying the usernames of the last two posters in quick succession. You might make a chair dance or some Harry Potter shit.
  • Nominous
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    Nominous polycounter lvl 6
    @perna Are you referring to me? I only tagged one person and although he was the last poster, someone else might've posted in the amount of time I took typing.

    Edit:  :p
  • Lopiky
    How do I model a wire like this in Blender 2.8? (Or pipes/ropes in general) I've been a 3D modeler for over 9 years and I still don't know how :c (I tried using curves but that didn't work)
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Lopiky said:
    How do I model a wire like this in Blender 2.8? (Or pipes/ropes in general) I've been a 3D modeler for over 9 years and I still don't know how :c (I tried using curves but that didn't work)
    cant you just do a small 8 sided cylinder and make it follow the shape of the spline?
  • FrankPolygon
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    FrankPolygon polycounter lvl 3
    You're on the right track. Curves can be expanded into 3D geometry using the options in the Object Data tab.

    For single strand safety wire: use curves to create a path then go into Object Data > Bevel > Depth and Resolution. The depth field controls the diameter of the wire and the resolution field controls the number of segments. From there you can tweak the curve how ever you want and it will auto update the 3D geometry.


    For multi strand cords: create a curve based path and create a mesh based segment. From there you can use the screw, simple deform twist and array modifiers to generate the rest of the cord without having to manually model each section of it. The curve modifier at the bottom of the stack makes the mesh segments follow the path. The mesh segments (highlighted in orange) control the geometry generated by the modifiers.




    Blender lets you convert mesh to curves and curves to mesh so take advantage of that where you can. Sometimes it makes sense to grab edge loops off the base mesh and use those for the basis of your curve so you're not spending a lot of time manually placing or manipulating verts.

  • Lopiky
    You're on the right track. Curves can be expanded into 3D geometry using the options in the Object Data tab.

    For single strand safety wire: use curves to create a path then go into Object Data > Bevel > Depth and Resolution. The depth field controls the diameter of the wire and the resolution field controls the number of segments. From there you can tweak the curve how ever you want and it will auto update the 3D geometry.


    For multi strand cords: create a curve based path and create a mesh based segment. From there you can use the screw, simple deform twist and array modifiers to generate the rest of the cord without having to manually model each section of it. The curve modifier at the bottom of the stack makes the mesh segments follow the path. The mesh segments (highlighted in orange) control the geometry generated by the modifiers.




    Blender lets you convert mesh to curves and curves to mesh so take advantage of that where you can. Sometimes it makes sense to grab edge loops off the base mesh and use those for the basis of your curve so you're not spending a lot of time manually placing or manipulating verts.

    Exactly what I was trying to figure out. Thanks so much!! :D
  • LouisPhilippe
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    LouisPhilippe polycounter lvl 2
    I'm getting pinching on this shape, do anybody knows what i might be doing wrong?

    EDIT:
    Ok, i figured out a solution. The corners were not exactly at the right position because I used a cylinder to create this shape. If you create the bevels on a flat surface first, add edges and use a Bend with 360 degrees you get the exact vertex position. I kept the topology as it was before.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    I'm getting pinching on this shape, do anybody knows what i might be doing wrong?

    Go back 3-5 pages, and I have a couple of explanations. Go back 5-10, and I have more of those, and if you keep on going back you will find between 40-50 (at least) reasons on why this error occurs. Sorry if I sound like an asshole, it's not meant to come out like that. But this is a problem that gets asked almost every page..Frequently asked questions. And some of the best artist on this page have stopped answering this question because people refuse to scroll back a couple of pages for the solution. 
  • Dreyzie
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    Dreyzie polycounter lvl 2
    I'm currently modeling the low poly for this surgical light,


    But this piece right here is giving me trouble. The part where the cylinder transitions into a curved swoop shape. 


    My modeling skills are rusty, so it's driving me up the wall. I've thought about starting with the swoop shape first, and bridging it with the cylinder, but I can't wrap my head around where to go from there.





  • SnowInChina
  • diartik
    Hi guys, can you say pls, how  to do this detail step-by-step?
    thanks!

  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10

    edit:
    ok, iam too stupid to count, theres actually 7 holes not six, so start with 28 sides
    i blame the heat
  • LouisPhilippe
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    LouisPhilippe polycounter lvl 2
    @wirrexx Yes I know it's a question that get asked often and i did scroll back and read a lot of solutions. I was getting confused because i thought i was following the same topology that was getting recommended and still getting issues. Sorry if that sounded ignorant :anguished:
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10
    @wirrexx Yes I know it's a question that get asked often and i did scroll back and read a lot of solutions. I was getting confused because i thought i was following the same topology that was getting recommended and still getting issues. Sorry if that sounded ignorant :anguished:
    if you're working with a modifier stack you can even get away with shitty geometry, since the bend modifier will bend your bad topology into the right shape


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