How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • Doguib7
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    Doguib7 polycounter lvl 5
    @Doguib7 The scope of your question is a bit large for this thread. Anyway, I would start with the elongated mesh and topology, and shrink it back to the normal nose shape, squeezing the loops as evenly as possible.

    I don't have a great suggestion on UVs and stretching, how much of an issue is the stretching here? Will this be using some stylized handpainted texture? Photoreal? Normal maps or Displacement? You may want to have a UV set for both nose states so you can blend textures appropriate for both as it grows. You can find some good tutorials on that in several of the terrain blending tutorials out there.
    I appreciate your help! Really help a lot buddy! Thanks for your support!
  • Doguib7
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    Doguib7 polycounter lvl 5
    .Wiki said:
    To reduce stretching you could uv the stretched and unstretched version. Render out one animation with the unstretched and one with the stretched uvs. To blend the meshes both need the same polycount and vertex-order. throttlekitty already suggested to do project the stretched topology to the base one, which should work.

    Then blend them in compositing. For the base pose you use the non stretched uvs, for the strechted pose you use the stretched uvs.
    Awesome buddy! Yes that trick should work! Thanks for your suggestions buddy! Appreciate them! 
  • Nominous
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    Nominous polycounter lvl 6
    @julienayheva At first glance, it doesn't look like a real life object since there's a lot of weird shading, shapes, and proportions that aren't found in most modern printers. If you're recreating a 3D model, you'll have to rely on the render/screenshot shading, however strange it may seem due to incomplete smoothing groups in 3ds Max, sharp edges in Blender, etc. I recommend logically placing edges in areas where the lighting abruptly ends similar to my paintover in green. In blue are edges that I'm unsure about due to the weird shading and they're a compromise that I make based on the model's silhouette:


    Even if you weren't trying to recreate a 3D model, it actually reminds me of a lot of 2D concept art featuring 'impossible shapes' due to a lack of accurate shading. :p The source ref looks really messy though and I'd strongly consider redesigning it to both look more realistic and to make it more aesthetic.
  • Geekson
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    Geekson polycounter lvl 3
    Hey guys. I'm looking for the quick and the most efficient way to make these smooth transitions:



    And here is what i've got:



    I have troubles with corners mostly. Also it seems that i've picked too dense cylinder to start with, and while i probably have fewer troubles with shading here, it takes more time to handle all these loops and support stuff + it's pretty hard to edit. As you can see on the reference, there are a lot of similar shapes and transitions, so understanding of how to handle these will give me a solid speed boost, thanks.
    Edit:

    Another variant, but it looks worse imo
  • Paskuihernandez
    Geekson said:
    Hey guys. I'm looking for the quick and the most efficient way to make these smooth transitions:



    And here is what i've got:



    I have troubles with corners mostly. Also it seems that i've picked too dense cylinder to start with, and while i probably have fewer troubles with shading here, it takes more time to handle all these loops and support stuff + it's pretty hard to edit. As you can see on the reference, there are a lot of similar shapes and transitions, so understanding of how to handle these will give me a solid speed boost, thanks.
    Edit:

    Another variant, but it looks worse imo
    If you wanna be quick one of the fastest method is to use ZBrush. Make the booleans in max if you want and then go to Z and polish it
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    @Geekson the object is essentially derived from cylinders, similar to an example on pg 165 however as a cast mould fabrication, overall precision is generally inconsistent and also regardless of technique a certain amount of free form manual editing would be required but ideally for instance via a polygonal subdiv workflow, less segments is usually more efficient too work with.

      

  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
    How would you guys approach this pump?

    I originally started off with a plane and made the flat parts in blue first but then had a very hard time getting the cylindrical shape circled in red above.

    After much experimentation and headache I managed to make this but I think I would have been better off starting with the circled red part first like in the last picture and then extruding out to get the flat parts?


    Essentially a quarter of a subdivided box with 2 iterations and spherify modifier applied with middle extruded to the left and the entire model scaled on one axis to make it slimmer. Which method would you guys start with as the way I originally performed it did not seem intuitive.

  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10
    not sure about this, the light is fucking with my eyes
    but i see this form more like this


  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
    not sure about this, the light is fucking with my eyes
    but i see this form more like this


    It is definitely elevated in mine too. What steps did you take to make your example? Looks like the part where the cylinder slants down into the elevated art is a straight drop with no curve?
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10


    the lighting looks straight there, so i assume my form to be correct, althought i could have made the champfers more soft, but than again, it would not really help identify the form if it looks like the picture
  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2


    the lighting looks straight there, so i assume my form to be correct, althought i could have made the champfers more soft, but than again, it would not really help identify the form if it looks like the picture
    You are right. It is straight/flat(but is slightly angled). Did you use boolean to get that part? Or simply make the curved part and then the flat elevated part and bridged the gap? As it looks angled to the left in the circled picture. Thanks in advance. 
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10
    you can bool it, or shear it, whatever works for you
    mine is so lowpoly that i just eyeballed it with vertexslide
    rule of thump for the highpoly is, if it looks right, it doesn't really matter
  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
    you can bool it, or shear it, whatever works for you
    mine is so lowpoly that i just eyeballed it with vertexslide
    rule of thump for the highpoly is, if it looks right, it doesn't really matter
    Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it. This will be a game asset so I am making the lowpoly first and applying subdivision/turbosmooth on it later so I do need quite a few edges on the cylinder to prevent it from looking too low poly.
  • Geekson
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    Geekson polycounter lvl 3
    sacboi said:

    @Geekson the object is essentially derived from cylinders, similar to an example on pg 165 however as a cast mould fabrication, overall precision is generally inconsistent and also regardless of technique a certain amount of free form manual editing would be required but ideally for instance via a polygonal subdiv workflow, less segments is usually more efficient too work with.

      

    Yeah, it seems that this time it's too much geo in my case. Big thanks for the example!
  • richardbroberts
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    richardbroberts polycounter lvl 3
    Hi guys, 

    I am trying to wrap my head around modeling this shape around this cylinder shape. A boole method is the easiest but of course results in terrible geo. Any tips or ideas on how to model this? The fact it wraps around I find more difficult, if it were flat I would have an easier time. 



  • AnimatedApe
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    AnimatedApe polycounter lvl 8
    Hi All,

    I'm trying to make this form which is part of a drill press. I'm having issues with one of the areas during smoothing after bevelling. The problem area is actually hidden in the final model, but if I know it's there then I won't be able to move on from it. Apologies for the number of images.

    The form before any bevels.


    The edges to be bevelled.


    Post bevelling.


    The problem area before smoothing.


    The smoothing problem. The circle is no longer circular on this side as the form smooths to the bevel. It also pinches where the bevel meets the circle.


    No problem, I'll run a holding edge on the inside of the circle to contain the problem.


    The circle is good now, but now I've got a really big pinch. This is the problem.


    More holding edges to contain the pinch, but obviously...


    This also stops the circle from forming correctly on that point of the circle. Everything else looks fine though! 


    I'm sure I've been looking at this for too long now, and the solution is right there! Any help is much appreciated!
  • AnimatedApe
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    AnimatedApe polycounter lvl 8
    Ok, got a breath of fresh air and came at it again. Doubled the circle segments so that it didn't deform as much. Then welded two verts together on the bevel. It's not perfect as I would have liked the bevels to transition into one another without a gap and would have preferred not to have a load of extra edges, but it's workable.


  • toxicsludge77
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    toxicsludge77 polycounter lvl 3
    Hi guys, 

    I am trying to wrap my head around modeling this shape around this cylinder shape. A boole method is the easiest but of course results in terrible geo. Any tips or ideas on how to model this? The fact it wraps around I find more difficult, if it were flat I would have an easier time. 




    This is what I'd do:

    Model the 'internal' ring (the bit with the cut-outs) flat. Don't forget to use symmetry. Then use a bend modifier to turn it into a cylinder and extrude the top/bottom edges to make the chamfered edge.

    Hope that makes sense.

  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    Hi, Anyone guide me to end up with this topology. Some are unfinished edges, have to runaround edges or any way to finish in some middle...?

    Thanks.

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Hi All,

    I'm trying to make this form which is part of a drill press. I'm having issues with one of the areas during smoothing after bevelling. The problem area is actually hidden in the final model, but if I know it's there then I won't be able to move on from it. Apologies for the number of images.

    The form before any bevels.


    The edges to be bevelled.


    Post bevelling.


    The problem area before smoothing.


    The smoothing problem. The circle is no longer circular on this side as the form smooths to the bevel. It also pinches where the bevel meets the circle.


    No problem, I'll run a holding edge on the inside of the circle to contain the problem.


    The circle is good now, but now I've got a really big pinch. This is the problem.


    More holding edges to contain the pinch, but obviously...


    This also stops the circle from forming correctly on that point of the circle. Everything else looks fine though! 


    I'm sure I've been looking at this for too long now, and the solution is right there! Any help is much appreciated!
    give me alink to the fbx please. :D
  • Valtyr
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    Valtyr polycounter lvl 7
    Question:
    How would one subD model a hexagon into a curve? My brain can't do it. I've tried a few different ways straight modeling. My thought is maybe subd the curve surface. Then Boolean/cut in the hex hole on the high poly handle. I would like to do it low poly and let the subD do the work if possible. The actual application is a hex bolt in a sloping organic knife grip casing.

    Application Model: Link
    All but the hole near the pommel are supposed to be hexagonal.

    Test File: .txt --> .blend

    Image of test file:

  • Valtyr
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    Valtyr polycounter lvl 7
    Sorry AnimatedApe, I mucked about with it for a while, but I also was not able to fix the issue. :<
    I've posted my test files if anyone else wants to mess with the issue.

    Attached Blend Test File & FBX:
    IronSight_SubD-Copy.txt --> .blend
    IronSight_SubD.txt --> .fbx

    It's been a while since I posted, should I be linking my files externally instead of dropping them in? Feel like the answer is yes.

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Valtyr said:
    Question:
    How would one subD model a hexagon into a curve? My brain can't do it. I've tried a few different ways straight modeling. My thought is maybe subd the curve surface. Then Boolean/cut in the hex hole on the high poly handle. I would like to do it low poly and let the subD do the work if possible. The actual application is a hex bolt in a sloping organic knife grip casing.

    Application Model: Link
    All but the hole near the pommel are supposed to be hexagonal.

    Test File: .txt --> .blend

    Image of test file:



  • Valtyr
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    Valtyr polycounter lvl 7
    wirrexx So you fixed the pinching by adding more geo and spacing it to support the subD form?
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Valtyr said:
    wirrexx So you fixed the pinching by adding more geo and spacing it to support the subD form?
    Precisly Keyword for stuff that curve, Spacing! And i added enough geo, Because every side needs 2 supporting loops (+1 the one thats already there) 6*3 = 18. Did not like the spacing so i added 4 extra edges where there were to big spacing apart, so in total 22. 
  • Chryseus
    I've been trying to model a car for a while now but this specific bit is giving me trouble, I need it to be fairly sharp but I want to avoid a visible crease running along the body, what would be a good way to approach this ?


  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    @Chryseus without context, I'm unsure what you're trying to accomplish. Is this modelled from a reference, if so can you post a screencap please?

  • earlgrey
    Ok, I've been struggling a lot with this, can anyone give me some advice on how to bevel this intersection without pinching? 

  • Udjani
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    Udjani polycounter lvl 2
    wirrexx said:

    @Thanez&nbsp; and if you look at that example he has 4 faces but an 8 sided cylinder. That makes it 4+4 = 8.


    Excuse my low iq-ness, but where the 17 come from? shouldn't be 16?
  • Udjani
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    Udjani polycounter lvl 2
    @earlgrey Hey, you can find examples on how to deal with that in page 162, basically you have to use one of the vertical edges of the cylinder to support the extrusion.
  • FrankPolygon
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    FrankPolygon polycounter lvl 3
    @earlgrey&nbsp; Like Udjani said you want to try and land your intersecting shapes between the vertical edge loops on the cylinder. That way the cylinder's edge loops become support loops for the intersection. Switching from a 12 point cylinder to a 16 point cylinder might cause the intersection to land between the loops on your mesh.

    I think this comes up a lot because it's easy to select the side of a cylinder and extrude. This extrusion technique only works if you have a very dense mesh. Otherwise you'll just end up with stretching and pinching artifacts. The technique shown below works on most meshes and isn't so dependent on mesh density. (Within reason: you still need enough geometry to hold the shape.)


  • Chryseus
    sacboi said:

    @Chryseus without context, I'm unsure what you're trying to accomplish. Is this modelled from a reference, if so can you post a screencap please?

    I took a closer look at the references images I have and there is a visible line running along the body so my problem no longer exists, still I would be interested in knowing how you would model it so there is no visible line along the body, for clarification this is the line I'm talking about coming from the two edge loops:

    I needed the two edge loops to hold the corner where the headlight fits, is there a way I can do it so there isn't a visible line in the body yet maintain the corner, here's what I was originally going for but as you can see the corner is no good with just one edge loop:


  • earlgrey
    @earlgrey&nbsp; Like Udjani said you want to try and land your intersecting shapes between the vertical edge loops on the cylinder. That way the cylinder's edge loops become support loops for the intersection. Switching from a 12 point cylinder to a 16 point cylinder might cause the intersection to land between the loops on your mesh.

    I think this comes up a lot because it's easy to select the side of a cylinder and extrude. This extrusion technique only works if you have a very dense mesh. Otherwise you'll just end up with stretching and pinching artifacts. The technique shown below works on most meshes and isn't so dependent on mesh density. (Within reason: you still need enough geometry to hold the shape.)




    thanks for replying , can you show how the top view looks like? 
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    Chryseus said:

    I took a closer look at the references images I have and there is a visible line running along the body so my problem no longer exists, still I would be interested in knowing how you would model it so there is no visible line along the body, for clarification this is the line I'm talking about coming from the two edge loops:

    I needed the two edge loops to hold the corner where the headlight fits, is there a way I can do it so there isn't a visible line in the body yet maintain the corner, here's what I was originally going for but as you can see the corner is no good with just one edge loop:

    One option I'd suggest, is to evenly space both edges (...your initial posted image) so that smooth shading is preserved along the body shell side panels, whilst at the same time both vertex points will maintain that corner for the front light cluster. 

    On a side note, a few things I try to keep in mind when especially working on automotive stuff:
    - Use as few vertices as possible
    - Maintain even edge spacing
    - Only when base mesh is finalised, add trim and panel cuts

    For further info, I highly recommend browsing through Modelling Cars In Polygons - By Ali Ismail
  • Chryseus
    sacboi said:

    Chryseus said:

    I took a closer look at the references images I have and there is a visible line running along the body so my problem no longer exists, still I would be interested in knowing how you would model it so there is no visible line along the body, for clarification this is the line I'm talking about coming from the two edge loops:

    I needed the two edge loops to hold the corner where the headlight fits, is there a way I can do it so there isn't a visible line in the body yet maintain the corner, here's what I was originally going for but as you can see the corner is no good with just one edge loop:

    One option I'd suggest, is to evenly space both edges (...your initial posted image) so that smooth shading is preserved along the body shell side panels, whilst at the same time both vertex points will maintain that corner for the front light cluster. 

    On a side note, a few things I try to keep in mind when especially working on automotive stuff:
    - Use as few vertices as possible
    - Maintain even edge spacing
    - Only when base mesh is finalised, add trim and panel cuts

    For further info, I highly recommend browsing through Modelling Cars In Polygons - By Ali Ismail
    Thanks I'll give that a read.
  • DeathstrokeFTW
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    DeathstrokeFTW polycounter lvl 3
    Cant wrap my head around this problem, I also have to apply Opensubdiv on this too but the artefacts are pretty annoying :/ (Max)


    With Crease and Opensubdiv applied -> Result

    The weird lines wont go away :(
    The ngons will be removed though, the center one is an LCD screen which I will detach.
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    @DeathstrokeFTW might want to generate those shapes using 'floaters' (floating geometry) 
  • DeathstrokeFTW
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    DeathstrokeFTW polycounter lvl 3
    sacboi said:
    @DeathstrokeFTW might want to generate those shapes using 'floaters' (floating geometry) 
    I could but I also need some depth for my lowpoly :/ Sometimes floaters give less information on some angles so I wanna fully make this first in HighPoly.
    I was going for a midpoly+floater workflow earlier.
  • Rekov
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    Rekov polycounter lvl 3
    A while back someone in here (I think it was throttlekitty) really helped me out by pointing me towards the chamfered edges + weighted normals workflow for low poly models. The one situation I haven't been able to figure out is what to do when you have an intersection like the following:


    The high poly represents two separate parts coming together to form a concave angle, but because they're two separate objects, there isn't really a 'chamfer' or smooth transition between the two surfaces on the high poly.

    So what do I do? Do I still put in a small chamfer on the lp, but enough for face weighted normals?


  • cafenoir
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    cafenoir polycounter lvl 6
    sacboi said:
    @DeathstrokeFTW might want to generate those shapes using 'floaters' (floating geometry) 
    I could but I also need some depth for my lowpoly :/ Sometimes floaters give less information on some angles so I wanna fully make this first in HighPoly.
    I was going for a midpoly+floater workflow earlier.
    What you need to do here is adjust custom normals on the planes  than needs to be flat.
    In maya it's much more easier than in max. Is max you need to use Edit Normals modifier or go for custom scripts 
    http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/improved-face-weighted-normals
    http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/custom-normals-tool

    So for not working out your high poly and toorbosmoothing it you can just manage custom normals and bake it to your low poly.
    Good luck!
  • Deqa
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    Deqa polycounter lvl 4
    @ArsenyZvonar
    @Thanez
    btw, you can weld the boolean vertices very easily in 3DS Max w/ the Vertex Cleaner script by Shiva
    http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/vertex-cleaner
  • AndrewG_82
    Hi, 

    This is my first post on forum, so hi!

    I`m working with 3D software for a lot of years now, but I only did some packaging related stuff. But for some time I want to learn new things and start creating more creative artworks. 

    I know that I will be never professional modeller, I`m not even trying to be, as I work in different industry which I like and where are my money:)

    I want to create science fiction related artworks, so I thought that I should expand my knowledge of subdivions modelling, especially in hard surface topic. I`m still struggling between learning the hard way (SUBD modelling) and going for some shortcuts (for example Zbrush or 3D coat).

    I`m trying to be ambitious so I bought Elementza course on Hard Surface Modelling, but unfortunately it doesnt give me all anwsers.

    My biggest question is how to make all the little details using subdivions modelling. At first I would like to create spaceships similar to those from Elite Dangerous, but I`m completely intimidated by all the little details. I know that at this point all this details are baked, but at the begining someone had to model them. How, I ask? :)



    Images from google. I know that those are low poly models, But I`m reffering to design of the ships, which I would recreate using SUBd modelling.

    From what I read after I establish some general shape, I should dens my mesh. But to make all those little details, I should make it a really, really dense.  I'm starting to think that there is some other approach to such modelling, and I wonder can you give me some hints about it:)

    Or maybe, I should give up on learning this and jump into only creative process using zbrush? 


  • Udjani
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    Udjani polycounter lvl 2
    Hi, this guy worked in a lot of blockbuster movies modeling spaceships with a mix of subdiv and non subdiv, he has a youtube channel an is also streaming on twitch lately. You should check it out, is probably enough information to get you started.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFQbqSkgsNg&t=6911s

    https://www.twitch.tv/andrewhodgson3d/videos?filter=archives&sort=time
  • bruceevans
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    bruceevans polycounter lvl 4
    Any ideas on how to approach various bevels in Maya?  The train pic is very similar to the results I want.  It seems to be two beveled edges joining into one smooth beveled corner.



    attempt:


  • Jousef
    Hello,

    So I think I'm close, take a look !





    When I find myself not knowing how to reach a certain topology, I start with as low poly as I can, and then build up step a time.
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    @bruceevans how's that shape shading overall once subd is applied since the corner geo at least to me looks ok?
  • bruceevans
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    bruceevans polycounter lvl 4
    @sacboi, it looked fine, but I wanted the bevels to be more in line with the left side.  Here's what I ended up going with.  It's going to be stylized, so I'm not copying verbatim. @Jousef cheers for the inspiration!


  • sixbysix
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    sixbysix polycounter lvl 5
    Hi friends,

    I'm trying to model a recessed dual microphone input on an akai gx-646 reel-to-reel machine. The unit itself is flat, so I would be cool with tris and ngons. My question would be: Is this considered a "good" mesh or is this trash? I need these support cuts close to the middel so the shape holds up. The mesh itself does look strange though and I'd like it more minimalistic and clean.


    Thing I'm trying to model:


    My attempt (before subsurf): 


    How it renders:




    /Edit: I've just tested a more minimal approach and the shape seems to be holding up relatively well:




  • Eric Chadwick
    Looks fine to me. Except you need to add the metal inserts, and the colored rings.

    If you're baking this down to a normal map, you could keep it separate from the body of the main model, just use it as a floater. http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Normal_Map_Modeling#Floating_Geometry
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    @sixbysix in determining whether a particular topology design is 'good' or 'bad' primarily I'd advise keeping the following in mind:

    "As long as the sub divided mesh achieves your intended goals without throwing shading errors/artefacts despite it's aesthetics, then all good"
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