How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks guys for your guidance.
    ...
  • juanoblagu
    So in order to lower the tri count in the model i have been putting these triangles around, i know it works like these but i wanted to ask very experienced or wise topology artists if you have any input about it. (like where to put the triangles better, or if the trick with quads is better than triangles) or anything! every opinion counts! thanks in advance.
    PD: my dream is one day work at a big studio epic games like or blizzard (i know its a big dream lol) but im telling this for reference maybe you guys know how they work their topology.

  • ArsenyZvonar
    So I've been modeling Tachikoma here and encountered some problem. Thing is, I'm trying to get proportions as close to the original model as possible. The shape required me to create multiple holes in different places and as I don't have much experience with 3ds Max overall, using ProBoolean seemed like a good idea to me as this way I'd get those holes exactly where I needed and of the exact size, but when I try to render it I'm getting weird shadows around those holes.


    I get that it happens because of its bad geometry since smooth groups are set correctly and I kinda get how geometry probably should've looked like so it doesn't cause these weird shadows, but again because of lack of experience I'm not exactly sure how do I do that. Are there any scripts I could use in this case? Or any other ways I could fix the geometry? Cuz for now the only way that comes to my mind is adding vertices and creating quads manually.


  • Eric Chadwick
    @ArsenyZvonar I've merged your topic into this Sticky. Go back a couple pages to find the solution. Also see the first post. 
  • Soviet
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    Soviet triangle
    So I've been modeling Tachikoma here and encountered some problem. Thing is, I'm trying to get proportions as close to the original model as possible. The shape required me to create multiple holes in different places and as I don't have much experience with 3ds Max overall, using ProBoolean seemed like a good idea to me as this way I'd get those holes exactly where I needed and of the exact size, but when I try to render it I'm getting weird shadows around those holes.

    I get that it happens because of its bad geometry since smooth groups are set correctly and I kinda get how geometry probably should've looked like so it doesn't cause these weird shadows, but again because of lack of experience I'm not exactly sure how do I do that. Are there any scripts I could use in this case? Or any other ways I could fix the geometry? Cuz for now the only way that comes to my mind is adding vertices and creating quads manually.


    Let me paste an example from a recent 80lv article, I hope they won't mind (https://80.lv/articles/002mrs-004adk-modeling-a-revoler-high-low-poly-uvs-baking/).




  • Adesh
    Im trying to model a fire hydrant, but i get some dents at the intersection when i do smooth preview.
    Any solutions please?Here's a better view

    I have attached the file

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth

    @Thanez ; and if you look at that example he has 4 faces but an 8 sided cylinder. That makes it 4+4 = 8.


  • Adesh
  • ArsenyZvonar
    @Thanez Thank you a lot, man! I'll certainly try it when I have time. Couldn't thank you earlier as I wasn't home for a while, haha. So do I get it right that in order to avoid such stuff, no matter the shape, I just need to make transitions between shapes as smooth as possible? Like, not going from square to circle, but rather from square to squarish circle and only then to actual circle thing?
  • bibiboo
    Cleaning up stray verts from Pro bool ops is a huge waste of time!

    Welding verts via increased thresholds is one alternative, but it leads to Imprecise holes even if the overall look is perfectly passable. 

    Cue this handy dandy little 3rd party helper. 

    Run your probool op as you normally would, before collapsing to a edit P or adding onto the stack run this:

    http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/cleanbool

    92ish% of the time it will catch most of the junk created by bools without affecting verts which maintain a shape. 

    That percentage may not sound truly impressive to those who want an evangelical solution, but it really has helped me in reducing clicks, mental fatigue and increasing time effeciency. 


  • annee
    Hi, guys! I have a serious problem with creating a rattan chair. I spent a lot of time trying to make it, but my chair is still crooked. It all started with the fact that I made an iron base, then I made a rattan plane and I tried to bend it. I had to connect rattan and iron base, and I decided to use rings shape for this. I deleted a couple of segments of polygons at the rings and connected them with rattan stripes and all this was tilted Probably it's one of crazy methods :D It seems to me that I'm doing everything wrong. Sorry for my English 
  • Thanez
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    Thanez polycounter lvl 4
    @ArsenyZvonar
    Transitions should make as much sense as possible. You're merging two very different shapes, and you should give each shape's topology somewhere logical to go without altering either shape's topology dramatically or else it won't subdivide nor reflect as intended.
    An 8-sided cylinder subdivided twice will look indiscernible to a 32-sided cylinder. Would you rather work with an 8-sided transition to then subdivide it to 32, or work on a 32-sided collision?
    Also see Wirrex and bibiboo's posts. Pretty cool stuff.

    There's a couple of vids on YT I recommend every watch, as they absolutely solved all my problems:
    Chaikins curve 
    Catmull-clark
    Not all of it is super important, but the bits where he shows how the algorithms work toward generating the highpoly from your base mesh is really important. Understanding how that works that will tell you:
    -Why your base mesh should be as densely consistent as possible within each curved area. (E.G. Why your red painted lines would only have made your issue worse)
    -Why poles, triangles and ngons in an otherwise quadratic curved mesh will create pinching or other artifacts, and how to use them to achieve a desired effect.
    -Why double-edgeloops are a good idea.
    -Why nearly all rules can be broken within a flat, double-supported plane.
    -Why some people's "cheats" work, and what their limitations are.
  • Doguib7
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    Doguib7 polycounter lvl 5
    Hey there folks!
    I am starting a VFX project where I need to track a face then add a growing tip nose,(Something similar to Disney Pinocchio), tracking stuff I think is pretty easy but I am wondering about modeling, how can I manage it to stretch and have proper UVs or deformation, Nose should stay normal and suddenly starts growing some inches....

    I already have from base mesh the long version but it does not have same polycount...

    Any queue or tip would be appreciated!

    Thanks in advance masters!

    And well not late to mention... compositing stuff I thing should be a challenge!

    Here's a closer ref of what I need to model! Any hint would be appreciated!

    Using C4D...

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/gt46bntwm1xju6z/Nose ref.jpg?dl=0








  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    @Doguib7 The scope of your question is a bit large for this thread. Anyway, I would start with the elongated mesh and topology, and shrink it back to the normal nose shape, squeezing the loops as evenly as possible.

    I don't have a great suggestion on UVs and stretching, how much of an issue is the stretching here? Will this be using some stylized handpainted texture? Photoreal? Normal maps or Displacement? You may want to have a UV set for both nose states so you can blend textures appropriate for both as it grows. You can find some good tutorials on that in several of the terrain blending tutorials out there.
  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 6
    To reduce stretching you could uv the stretched and unstretched version. Render out one animation with the unstretched and one with the stretched uvs. To blend the meshes both need the same polycount and vertex-order. throttlekitty already suggested to do project the stretched topology to the base one, which should work.

    Then blend them in compositing. For the base pose you use the non stretched uvs, for the strechted pose you use the stretched uvs.
  • julienayheva
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    julienayheva polycounter lvl 3
    Hi Guys , There's something i'm trying to model and here's the picture of the part i'm trying to model but


     but i don't know how  i could join those complex shapes or just create them. Here's what i did :

    You can see the transition is not the same and i really don't know how to make it. Can someone give me some tips on how to tackle this project?


  • Doguib7
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    Doguib7 polycounter lvl 5
    @Doguib7 The scope of your question is a bit large for this thread. Anyway, I would start with the elongated mesh and topology, and shrink it back to the normal nose shape, squeezing the loops as evenly as possible.

    I don't have a great suggestion on UVs and stretching, how much of an issue is the stretching here? Will this be using some stylized handpainted texture? Photoreal? Normal maps or Displacement? You may want to have a UV set for both nose states so you can blend textures appropriate for both as it grows. You can find some good tutorials on that in several of the terrain blending tutorials out there.
    I appreciate your help! Really help a lot buddy! Thanks for your support!
  • Doguib7
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    Doguib7 polycounter lvl 5
    .Wiki said:
    To reduce stretching you could uv the stretched and unstretched version. Render out one animation with the unstretched and one with the stretched uvs. To blend the meshes both need the same polycount and vertex-order. throttlekitty already suggested to do project the stretched topology to the base one, which should work.

    Then blend them in compositing. For the base pose you use the non stretched uvs, for the strechted pose you use the stretched uvs.
    Awesome buddy! Yes that trick should work! Thanks for your suggestions buddy! Appreciate them! 
  • Nominous
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    Nominous polycounter lvl 5
    @julienayheva At first glance, it doesn't look like a real life object since there's a lot of weird shading, shapes, and proportions that aren't found in most modern printers. If you're recreating a 3D model, you'll have to rely on the render/screenshot shading, however strange it may seem due to incomplete smoothing groups in 3ds Max, sharp edges in Blender, etc. I recommend logically placing edges in areas where the lighting abruptly ends similar to my paintover in green. In blue are edges that I'm unsure about due to the weird shading and they're a compromise that I make based on the model's silhouette:


    Even if you weren't trying to recreate a 3D model, it actually reminds me of a lot of 2D concept art featuring 'impossible shapes' due to a lack of accurate shading. :p The source ref looks really messy though and I'd strongly consider redesigning it to both look more realistic and to make it more aesthetic.
  • Geekson
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    Geekson polycounter lvl 2
    Hey guys. I'm looking for the quick and the most efficient way to make these smooth transitions:



    And here is what i've got:



    I have troubles with corners mostly. Also it seems that i've picked too dense cylinder to start with, and while i probably have fewer troubles with shading here, it takes more time to handle all these loops and support stuff + it's pretty hard to edit. As you can see on the reference, there are a lot of similar shapes and transitions, so understanding of how to handle these will give me a solid speed boost, thanks.
    Edit:

    Another variant, but it looks worse imo
  • Paskuihernandez
    Geekson said:
    Hey guys. I'm looking for the quick and the most efficient way to make these smooth transitions:



    And here is what i've got:



    I have troubles with corners mostly. Also it seems that i've picked too dense cylinder to start with, and while i probably have fewer troubles with shading here, it takes more time to handle all these loops and support stuff + it's pretty hard to edit. As you can see on the reference, there are a lot of similar shapes and transitions, so understanding of how to handle these will give me a solid speed boost, thanks.
    Edit:

    Another variant, but it looks worse imo
    If you wanna be quick one of the fastest method is to use ZBrush. Make the booleans in max if you want and then go to Z and polish it
  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    @Geekson the object is essentially derived from cylinders, similar to an example on pg 165 however as a cast mould fabrication, overall precision is generally inconsistent and also regardless of technique a certain amount of free form manual editing would be required but ideally for instance via a polygonal subdiv workflow, less segments is usually more efficient too work with.

      

  • guitarguy00
    How would you guys approach this pump?

    I originally started off with a plane and made the flat parts in blue first but then had a very hard time getting the cylindrical shape circled in red above.

    After much experimentation and headache I managed to make this but I think I would have been better off starting with the circled red part first like in the last picture and then extruding out to get the flat parts?


    Essentially a quarter of a subdivided box with 2 iterations and spherify modifier applied with middle extruded to the left and the entire model scaled on one axis to make it slimmer. Which method would you guys start with as the way I originally performed it did not seem intuitive.

  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 9
    not sure about this, the light is fucking with my eyes
    but i see this form more like this


  • guitarguy00
    not sure about this, the light is fucking with my eyes
    but i see this form more like this


    It is definitely elevated in mine too. What steps did you take to make your example? Looks like the part where the cylinder slants down into the elevated art is a straight drop with no curve?
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 9


    the lighting looks straight there, so i assume my form to be correct, althought i could have made the champfers more soft, but than again, it would not really help identify the form if it looks like the picture
  • guitarguy00


    the lighting looks straight there, so i assume my form to be correct, althought i could have made the champfers more soft, but than again, it would not really help identify the form if it looks like the picture
    You are right. It is straight/flat(but is slightly angled). Did you use boolean to get that part? Or simply make the curved part and then the flat elevated part and bridged the gap? As it looks angled to the left in the circled picture. Thanks in advance. 
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 9
    you can bool it, or shear it, whatever works for you
    mine is so lowpoly that i just eyeballed it with vertexslide
    rule of thump for the highpoly is, if it looks right, it doesn't really matter
  • guitarguy00
    you can bool it, or shear it, whatever works for you
    mine is so lowpoly that i just eyeballed it with vertexslide
    rule of thump for the highpoly is, if it looks right, it doesn't really matter
    Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it. This will be a game asset so I am making the lowpoly first and applying subdivision/turbosmooth on it later so I do need quite a few edges on the cylinder to prevent it from looking too low poly.
  • Geekson
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    Geekson polycounter lvl 2
    sacboi said:

    @Geekson the object is essentially derived from cylinders, similar to an example on pg 165 however as a cast mould fabrication, overall precision is generally inconsistent and also regardless of technique a certain amount of free form manual editing would be required but ideally for instance via a polygonal subdiv workflow, less segments is usually more efficient too work with.

      

    Yeah, it seems that this time it's too much geo in my case. Big thanks for the example!
  • richardbroberts
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    richardbroberts polycounter lvl 3
    Hi guys, 

    I am trying to wrap my head around modeling this shape around this cylinder shape. A boole method is the easiest but of course results in terrible geo. Any tips or ideas on how to model this? The fact it wraps around I find more difficult, if it were flat I would have an easier time. 



  • AnimatedApe
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    AnimatedApe polycounter lvl 8
    Hi All,

    I'm trying to make this form which is part of a drill press. I'm having issues with one of the areas during smoothing after bevelling. The problem area is actually hidden in the final model, but if I know it's there then I won't be able to move on from it. Apologies for the number of images.

    The form before any bevels.


    The edges to be bevelled.


    Post bevelling.


    The problem area before smoothing.


    The smoothing problem. The circle is no longer circular on this side as the form smooths to the bevel. It also pinches where the bevel meets the circle.


    No problem, I'll run a holding edge on the inside of the circle to contain the problem.


    The circle is good now, but now I've got a really big pinch. This is the problem.


    More holding edges to contain the pinch, but obviously...


    This also stops the circle from forming correctly on that point of the circle. Everything else looks fine though! 


    I'm sure I've been looking at this for too long now, and the solution is right there! Any help is much appreciated!
  • AnimatedApe
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    AnimatedApe polycounter lvl 8
    Ok, got a breath of fresh air and came at it again. Doubled the circle segments so that it didn't deform as much. Then welded two verts together on the bevel. It's not perfect as I would have liked the bevels to transition into one another without a gap and would have preferred not to have a load of extra edges, but it's workable.


  • toxicsludge77
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    toxicsludge77 polycounter lvl 3
    Hi guys, 

    I am trying to wrap my head around modeling this shape around this cylinder shape. A boole method is the easiest but of course results in terrible geo. Any tips or ideas on how to model this? The fact it wraps around I find more difficult, if it were flat I would have an easier time. 




    This is what I'd do:

    Model the 'internal' ring (the bit with the cut-outs) flat. Don't forget to use symmetry. Then use a bend modifier to turn it into a cylinder and extrude the top/bottom edges to make the chamfered edge.

    Hope that makes sense.

  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 2
    Hi, Anyone guide me to end up with this topology. Some are unfinished edges, have to runaround edges or any way to finish in some middle...?

    Thanks.

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Hi All,

    I'm trying to make this form which is part of a drill press. I'm having issues with one of the areas during smoothing after bevelling. The problem area is actually hidden in the final model, but if I know it's there then I won't be able to move on from it. Apologies for the number of images.

    The form before any bevels.


    The edges to be bevelled.


    Post bevelling.


    The problem area before smoothing.


    The smoothing problem. The circle is no longer circular on this side as the form smooths to the bevel. It also pinches where the bevel meets the circle.


    No problem, I'll run a holding edge on the inside of the circle to contain the problem.


    The circle is good now, but now I've got a really big pinch. This is the problem.


    More holding edges to contain the pinch, but obviously...


    This also stops the circle from forming correctly on that point of the circle. Everything else looks fine though! 


    I'm sure I've been looking at this for too long now, and the solution is right there! Any help is much appreciated!
    give me alink to the fbx please. :D
  • Valtyr
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    Valtyr polycounter lvl 7
    Question:
    How would one subD model a hexagon into a curve? My brain can't do it. I've tried a few different ways straight modeling. My thought is maybe subd the curve surface. Then Boolean/cut in the hex hole on the high poly handle. I would like to do it low poly and let the subD do the work if possible. The actual application is a hex bolt in a sloping organic knife grip casing.

    Application Model: Link
    All but the hole near the pommel are supposed to be hexagonal.

    Test File: .txt --> .blend

    Image of test file:

  • Valtyr
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    Valtyr polycounter lvl 7
    Sorry AnimatedApe, I mucked about with it for a while, but I also was not able to fix the issue. :<
    I've posted my test files if anyone else wants to mess with the issue.

    Attached Blend Test File & FBX:
    IronSight_SubD-Copy.txt --> .blend
    IronSight_SubD.txt --> .fbx

    It's been a while since I posted, should I be linking my files externally instead of dropping them in? Feel like the answer is yes.

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Valtyr said:
    Question:
    How would one subD model a hexagon into a curve? My brain can't do it. I've tried a few different ways straight modeling. My thought is maybe subd the curve surface. Then Boolean/cut in the hex hole on the high poly handle. I would like to do it low poly and let the subD do the work if possible. The actual application is a hex bolt in a sloping organic knife grip casing.

    Application Model: Link
    All but the hole near the pommel are supposed to be hexagonal.

    Test File: .txt --> .blend

    Image of test file:



  • Valtyr
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    Valtyr polycounter lvl 7
    wirrexx So you fixed the pinching by adding more geo and spacing it to support the subD form?
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Valtyr said:
    wirrexx So you fixed the pinching by adding more geo and spacing it to support the subD form?
    Precisly Keyword for stuff that curve, Spacing! And i added enough geo, Because every side needs 2 supporting loops (+1 the one thats already there) 6*3 = 18. Did not like the spacing so i added 4 extra edges where there were to big spacing apart, so in total 22. 
  • Chryseus
    I've been trying to model a car for a while now but this specific bit is giving me trouble, I need it to be fairly sharp but I want to avoid a visible crease running along the body, what would be a good way to approach this ?


  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter

    @Chryseus without context, I'm unsure what you're trying to accomplish. Is this modelled from a reference, if so can you post a screencap please?

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