How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • sanfuer
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    sanfuer null
    Hello everyone, I'm trying to model 2 twisted pipes but I'm struggling with the ends and the pinch I'm getting, if any of you kind sirs could help me out that'd be awesome
    Here is what I'm looking for :



     And here's my attempt :

     As you can see I'm not getting the shape i want and I faces overlapping. Thank you everyone
  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    @sanfuer , this is confusing because it seems you already have 90% of the shape. What's stopping you from just doing more of exactly the same to complete it?

    As for the overlapping faces, just fix it manually using basic modeling tools.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx polycounter lvl 7
    perna said:
    @admiralpixel15 , I zoned out and went overboard with this



    I just wanted to address you increasing the density of the rounded corner geometry. For a clean, controllable curve all you need is three edges, as shown above.

    This way it's extremely easy to tweak the angle of each curve.  Simply move one single edge up or down:



    It's also extremely easy to change the profile of the entire curve, make it sharper, etc.

    Below is the cage model for the complete mesh, without modifiers. I manually remove the edge created by the symmetry modifier for the rightmost edge (you can see in the above wireframe images that there's no centerline running through the rounded corner.




    Modifier stack:
    • TurboSmooth
    • Quad Chamfer
    • Radial Symmetry
    • Symmetry (vertical)
    • Symmetry (the special case one, this is hidden until I need to mirror some manual work)

    Cage without Quad Chamfer and Turbosmooth:


    This is probably the best and easiest expl. anybody ever got. It's so incredible powerful! Thank you once again Wise one! 
  • ajr2764
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    ajr2764 polycounter lvl 8

    Perna advised to check out this thread. I had a little pinch issue on a mesh in another thread. I  did a paint over on my image since im not home. So I think I need to use more edges to begin with so those extra edges can also be used as support loops. Also make sure to check the edge spacing. I originally created this flat, cut in the edges, cloned and bent the segments to get the shape.

  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    @ajr2764 , I mentioned for you to check this thread because your question gets answered here up to several times a week. The real issue isn't that you don't have enough geo, but that your topology is not of a consistent density. To make a smooth curve, the points on the curve should be equidistant. Try to never stray from that rule.

    The first thing you should try is, well you have this weird geo making your results bad, so simply remove that geo.
  • HAWK12HT
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    HAWK12HT polycounter lvl 7
    Hi all, Ok so I may get a lot of flak for this but one must seek help from the polycount council and @perna .
    Right I am using spline > outline > extrude > chamfer workflow and came across an issue of maintaining width on an angled surface due to outline parameter in edit spline. I know I can do old school poly modelling (grey plane) also max is not cad tool but would like to know if there is a way I can approach this in faster way while keeping equal width on an angled surface. 


  • ajr2764
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    ajr2764 polycounter lvl 8
    I fixed up the topology and looks like I'm getting a good result now.

  • PeterBroof
    Guys, how would you model large, continuous, smooth shapes like this kayak in 3ds max? I considered polygonal modeling with turbosmooth, but after adding loops it quickly becomes a mess to adjust size here and there, because it's one shape which cannot be broken in parts. I started modeling it with curves and then surface, but it's really clunky in 3ds max. Is there a better approach?

  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    @PeterBroof , it becomes a mess when trying to do everything at once. Build all meshes  (not just this one) in stages of large to small shapes. Otherwise you're going to have issues no matter what you do, as a dense mesh is a nightmare for controlling smooth curves, and a simple mesh isn't able to support all the detail.


    Also, of course, block out.




  • Hikabuzy
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    Hikabuzy vertex
    Hi :)

    Does anybody have a solution about that weirdness on the top of my sphere.

    Thankx a lot :)
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx polycounter lvl 7
    Hikabuzy said:
    Hi :)

    Does anybody have a solution about that weirdness on the top of my sphere.

    Thankx a lot :)
    check back on this forum my frriend, there's alot about it!
  • Makkon
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    Makkon interpolator
    @Hikabuzy
    I understand that this stuff is hard to learn. If it helps, I have a pinterest board on hard surface topology.
    https://www.pinterest.com/Makkon06/hard-surface-topology/
    If you get some time, I'd suggest going through it and recreating some of the shapes in there. Thank you for making the effort! It can take a lot of tries before things start to click.

    Otherwise, I would suggest trying to have more uniform topology, in this case more subdivisions for the cylinder, making room for intersections to smooth better. Good luck.

  • HAWK12HT
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    HAWK12HT polycounter lvl 7
    Bump 
    uh little help fellas on my post above
  • Hikabuzy
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    Hikabuzy vertex
    Thanx a lot guys, next time im gonna put more effort on it and  check it before :/

    ps: sorry for my bad english. Its not my mother tongue

  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    HAWK12HT said:
    Bump 
    uh little help fellas on my post above
    Honestly your question is a bit of a jumbled mess and I don't understand what half of it means. Could you rephrase it into something simple, like "how do I set the distance between two parallel splines?" 

    In general, spline tools in Max are very basic and out of the box it would be infinitely easier to do what you want with epoly (you can even convert that to splines afterwards if you want).

    If I were to work more with splines I'd not hesitate to purchase Polyline Pro by @miauu.

  • gfelton
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    gfelton polycounter lvl 4
    perna said:

    If I were to work more with splines I'd not hesitate to purchase Polyline Pro by @miauu.

    You always seem to know the best plugins/scripts for max, which ones would you recommend that all max users should have?
  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    edit: no, sorry, I just can't this post editor. I'll try again. Guys...
  • HAWK12HT
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    HAWK12HT polycounter lvl 7
    @perna thanks for script link. Yup my bad I made it complex! anyways I resolved it.


  • gfelton
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    gfelton polycounter lvl 4
    perna said:
    -snip-
    These are all fantastic man, thanks a bunch! :)
  • advanced
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    advanced null
    Hi guyz,
    Im bothering with this simple topology... and cant find out how to make this object with perfect topology... some help?
    Im thinking at the end chamfer edges and apply turbosmooth


    try from blender


    made something but still think its not good...?

  • s1dK
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    s1dK interpolator
    @advanced looks good mate. I made one from cylinder with 20 sides still smooth pretty ok.

  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    @advanced ,
    "Perfect subd" is an oxymoron, but anyway - below are standard ways in subd. The bottom row is QuadChamfered.



  • advanced
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    advanced null
    ^^Thanks guyz is helping me. i think i got it
  • Filip5
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    Filip5 polycounter lvl 3
    Hey guys, I am struggling wall section. Especially the arch part. Now I did that arch using boolean and extruding the edges afterwards. However, I ended up with some loose vertices which I am unable to weld. It worked fine until I created that arch. Upon dividing mesh in Zbrush all goes wrong.

     
  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    Filip5, it's possible to weld the vertices, just have a closer look at the topology.

    That said, this is completely unnecessary use of booleans. There's a flat wall and a flat shape cutting into it. You could just pull edges from the arch mesh and get a better result in less time. 
  • Filip5
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    Filip5 polycounter lvl 3
    @perna I tell you, even target weld didn't work. There is something odd about modeling arches and I have no idea how to do them the right way.
  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    Filip: Upload the obj and I'll show you.
  • Filip5
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    Filip5 polycounter lvl 3
    @perna Here you go 

    (for some reason obj can't be uploaded either)
  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    @Filip5
    I think you'll need to re-evaluate everything you did in creating this, from the ground up, and potentially hire an exorcist, because the mesh is broken beyond the limits of our earthly domain.

    First of all, it would be infinitely faster to just redo the entire mesh than to try to "fix" it. I see a lot of people here has "fixing" as a natural part of their workflow, which should never be the case. If you ever need to "fix" your mesh it means something in your workflow is horribly broken.

    concrete issues:

    -It's imperative to clean up a boolean result BEFORE doing more work on a mesh. In this case you've not done that, and the result is that the problems have compounded and multiplied. Finish one stage before moving on to the next.
    -As mentioned previously, there's absolutely no reason to use booleans in this case.
    -Also there's absolutely no need to manually add those control loops. It's been automatic in 3ds Max for the last five years.
    -The points on the curve aren't equidistant. The topology is random, makes no sense.
    -lots of unnecessary cuts and geometry that can't serve to do much but slow you down and add to your workload.
    -And finally, target weld does work just fine. Just look at the underlying topology. But that isn't even the issue here. There should never have been such broken topology in the first place.
    -There's nothing odd about modeling arches. They're just polygons like anything else.

    In short, you're making your life unnecessarily difficult here and you'll be happy to find there are simple steps you can take to drastically improve your efficiency, as well as alleviate immense amounts of frustration.

  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    @Filip5

    Here. A subd curve (this one is identical to yours) only needs 2 edges, which is also the ideal for smooth control (you only ever move the midpoint to change its shape). So in this case I make 3 polygons and the rest is standard modifiers. No need to make life difficult.



  • Filip5
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    Filip5 polycounter lvl 3
    @perna Do you also offer possibility of confession ? Anyway, I ll try to remodel and do what you suggested, altough I have no idea what modifiers you used there.
  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    Filip5 said:
    @perna Do you also offer possibility of confession ? Anyway, I ll try to remodel and do what you suggested, altough I have no idea what modifiers you used there.
    I would suggest you find out by yourself, because honestly no one has any business using 3ds over, say, Modo, if you can't tell which modifiers are used there. They're the most basic ones "everyone" uses.

    I believe Modo has better booleans as well as a more straight-forward poly-modeling workflow. Since you're bringing your mesh to zbrush anyway, you could use Mesh Fusion. Modo might be a fantastic choice for you. It's cheaper, too. 3ds is really only recommended for 3D artists who want to go deep into and take advantage of the complex systems that software offers, people who RTFM, etc. It's a terrible software choice for anyone who wants to hit it casually.

    Don't take the directness the wrong way. I know some struggle with it, but I'm trying to give the best advice I can possibly give, with the least amount of BS.
  • musashidan
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    musashidan hero character
    Browsing this thread now and again, one thing that sticks out is the unnecessary amount of geo used by the posters with sub-d problems.

    The sub-d cage or base mesh is best modeled as a very low (as little as is needed to derive the basic form) density mesh. The subdivision algorithm does the rest. Look at the last 2 examples given by @perna . This is all that's required. This is a fundamental guiding principle of sub-d. Only add geo IF it is needed. Use existing geo where possible and IF you can't get the forms with the geo you have, THEN add more.


  • Revel
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    Revel greentooth
    And the misconception of 'all must quad to get a smooth sub-d mesh' also a problem that sometimes make people frustrated cus it's just impossible to get all quad sometimes and really not that important rules to must-follow, and often requires you to add unnecessary edges that harder to control.

    The general idea of quad is just the evenly spread vertex location on the mesh, which I believed already mentioned by @perna thousands times here, the importance of vertex/ edges distribution.
  • triton
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    triton node
    Hi guys,
    What is the best way of connecting all the faces together? if I Bridge now I still have to connect all the other side of the edges. I want to make it grid squares.


  • NoRank
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    NoRank triangle
    I think that the only way of doing that is by using a script like quad cap or something like that.
  • supaclueless
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    supaclueless polycounter lvl 7
    If equadistance (or even approx., just makes it not 100% "square"), just loop each corner edges for each shell, marquee deselect edges on corner, bridge.
  • triton
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    triton node
    Thank you guys, you gave me inspiration :)
    I did bridge two edge sides and then I did connect on the same amount of subdivision and then I merged the vertices. That's all.
     

  • Neox
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    Neox sublime tool
    now the real question would be, why does your mesh have this density at that stage? wouldnt it be simpler to model with the minimum amount of faces now and subdivide later?
  • triton
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    triton node
    Neox said:
    now the real question would be, why does your mesh have this density at that stage? wouldnt it be simpler to model with the minimum amount of faces now and subdivide later?
    Thank you for your comment.
    Yes you are right it's really dense but it's only a prototype and not the final model, I needed to be very precise to model a shape so later I can mont a certain shapes on top, so basically it's only a base and will be removed later :)
  • OBlastradiusO
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    OBlastradiusO polycounter lvl 10
    I'm trying to get use to using quad chamfer with my hard surface workflow. Has anyone had any success in using this method with just pro boolean objects without quads?
  • Neox
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    Neox sublime tool
    nope, the way quadchamfer works you will always need some sort of clean topology with enough support structure to guide the chamfers. i guess what you are looking for would be more of the face inset script
  • OBlastradiusO
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    OBlastradiusO polycounter lvl 10
    Got it. Thanks dude
  • PetSto
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    PetSto polycounter lvl 4
    Hi, I need help , how to create best subd topology on cube corner with nice beveled edges, as you can see on the image below. I try something, but I am not happy with result. I need some advice, step by step guide how to do right way. Thank you.

  • Neox
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    Neox sublime tool
    i'd say, follow your own overpaint better :)
  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    @PetSto , in terms of just topology, below are some standard approaches. The shape construction for this mesh is non-trivial though, if you want it mathematically perfect. The sphere section of the corner fillet has to resolve smoothly into the edge fillet. Would be interesting to see how people would approach that.


  • PetSto
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    PetSto polycounter lvl 4
    perna said:
    @PetSto , in terms of just topology, below are some standard approaches. The shape construction for this mesh is non-trivial though, if you want it mathematically perfect. The sphere section of the corner fillet has to resolve smoothly into the edge fillet. Would be interesting to see how people would approach that.

    Thank you Perna, I think your middle topology is the best, has nice transition in corner, no pinching etc. But challenge will be how to achieve this, because I don't know where to start.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx polycounter lvl 7
    Started with a cube. 
    copied it, turbosmoothed the second cube, spherify, scaled it up. 
    used Boolean to intersect. Got that edge, cleaned it up and extruded the "cube" from the corner. 
  • xddong001
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