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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • Makkon
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    Makkon polycounter
    There's something messed up with your extrude default options or something, dude. It shouldn't be behaving that way. It should be doing basically what a shell modifier does.
  • triton
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    triton polycounter lvl 6
    Makkon said:
    There's something messed up with your extrude default options or something, dude. It shouldn't be behaving that way. It should be doing basically what a shell modifier does.
    Yes, I thihk it was normals problem. I did fix it.
    EverytimeI extrued I get the vertex normals in wrong direction so I have to give it "Set to Face" command, is there anywayto fix it permanently? 
  • Axi5
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    Axi5 interpolator
    triton said:
    Makkon said:
    There's something messed up with your extrude default options or something, dude. It shouldn't be behaving that way. It should be doing basically what a shell modifier does.
    Yes, I thihk it was normals problem. I did fix it.
    EverytimeI extrued I get the vertex normals in wrong direction so I have to give it "Set to Face" command, is there anywayto fix it permanently? 
    Select all edges/faces, Mesh Display - Unlock normals, then run Mesh Display - Soften/Harden Edge.
  • triton
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    triton polycounter lvl 6
    Axi5 said:
    triton said:
    Makkon said:
    There's something messed up with your extrude default options or something, dude. It shouldn't be behaving that way. It should be doing basically what a shell modifier does.
    Yes, I thihk it was normals problem. I did fix it.
    EverytimeI extrued I get the vertex normals in wrong direction so I have to give it "Set to Face" command, is there anywayto fix it permanently? 
    Select all edges/faces, Mesh Display - Unlock normals, then run Mesh Display - Soften/Harden Edge.
    Thank you :)
  • EosOfOrcus
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    EosOfOrcus polycounter lvl 4
    Hello guys. I'm working on my own project and i'm trying to workout shapes and how to get this object shape done without having any pinching and having smooth edges around the spherical area. don't mind the different wireframes, it's just me playing around with the edgeflow and trying to figure out the best way to do it.

    I feel like an answer to my problem is that there isn't enough supporting edges and the sub-div of this shape is bit low
  • EosOfOrcus
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    EosOfOrcus polycounter lvl 4
    perna said:
    @EosOfOrcus, I'd like for you to help me help you if possible. I'm learning from this thread that just dumping a solution is not very educational.

    If you don't mind, would you describe in as perfect detail as possible the exact strategy you chose to decide how many segments that cylinder should hold?

    I don't want you to feel this is picking on you or that your model is particularly heinous or anything. In fact the problem is common, even among professional 3d artists, so we have an opportunity to figure out not only what the solution is but what goes wrong in the first place.
    oh don't you worry i know it's hideous and i'm working on making it better. From studies I've done on this thread is should. I think it's should have as many vertical supporting edges to avoid this changes of direction and some extra horizontal to have more control over the edges of the squares.

    So if we put everything to numbers if i have a 24 edged cylinder right now i would probably need 3~4 extra edge runs for each square that i have on the cylinder vertically and probably another 3 extra edge rings horizontally. 
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx ngon master
    Your  cylinder, needs to be able to keep it's shape. So start off by simply blocking out the shape of your modell. With as low polycount as possible. 

    Important by spherical object or cylindrical when making cuts on the curved part.. is that the edges often needs to have equal distance between them, if you want to skip doing a couple of manual work. 


  • EosOfOrcus
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    EosOfOrcus polycounter lvl 4
    @wirrexx Thanks for the advice man. I'm going to be working on it now. The thing with hard surface modelling is that i still have to wrap my head around it. In terms on how to advance from base mesh for blocking out and then moving into higher poly to start adding the details.


    Update: 
    I'm doing a test to see how the edges look like. i added more subdivisions and it seems i have to add more to prevent pinching.


  • TheDarkKnight
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    TheDarkKnight polycounter lvl 13
    Saw that your mesh had curvature when I already build this, so the horizontal edgeloops won't work as it'll give pinching and distort the curve.
    If you block out the main shape and then subdivide it before adding detail you should be alright


  • Thanez
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    Thanez interpolator
    I'll be showing the doublesmooth method or whatever you wanna call it. The point is a turbosmooth modifier that respects smoothing groups/hard edges, using it's iterations to control edge smoothness. It has some performance disadvantages, but the main advantage is working with curved surfaces like a cylinder because it creates more geometry within your smoothing groups for you so you don't need as many edgeloops to control your edge width. I'll be making 3 different details to show how this can be used on anything.
    1) I started by deciding on 8 repeating details, equal in width as the spacing between them (hence the *2), then *by 3 so I get the appropriate amount of geometry for this cylinder. 8*2*3 = 48 sided cylinder.


    2) Removed the unwanted geometry to clear up my workspace.


    3) Inset the faces where I want my details by 1,5. These new faces will be constricting the turbosmoosh.


    4 & 5) Extrude faces by -2 and +2. Keep this value close to the inset in the previous step 3 for uniform edges. Want weird curves, do varying values.


    6) Deleted the edges that made the first two details boxes, so they're more like what you're trying to do. This creates triangles, but they will be on flat surfaces that will end up sharp anyways. Nothing matters.


    7) Autosmoothed all faces by 10°. This includes the new faces from the inset into the smoothness of the cylinder, while making all other edges hardened. If I wanted the angled sides of the first two details to be smooth going into the shape of the cylinder, I'd simply autosmooth by 30°


    8) Added some geo within the details so i'll get a uniform result from the doublesmooth.


    9) Turbosmooth modifier that respects smoothing groups a.k.a. hard edges. The iterations of this will make all my edges sharper.


    10) Regular Turbosmooth to smooth the end result.


    11) Adding an iteration on the first Turbosmooth adds more geometry before the real smoothing begins.


    Why I like this method:



  • ActionDawg
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    ActionDawg greentooth
    They're just renamed to explain what they do.
  • WeeLittleSpoon
    Hey,

    Starting to get into 3D modeling and I've run into a small problem, where I want to extrude one face into a shape over top of another face, where the two faces will share a set of vertices after the extrude. I was trying to model a tank, but have moved past the problem now, so all I have is this quick example I made in 3DS Max. Essentially though there was a box that extruded out from the main hull over top of the track as shown below, but in the 'real' problem I only wanted to make the box cover a small portion of the track (whereas in this example it covers the whole track; if that was the case I would have just extruded the whole side at once).



    I thought I would just be able to extrude the face out, and then delete the two faces that separate the upper extrusion and the bottom extrusion and weld the vertices together. But that didn't work at all, so I ended up separating the tracks into a separate object and just extruding out so that the part I was trying to extrude just looked like it was resting on the tracks.

    I was wondering if there was a 'most efficient' way to do this kind of thing though, because this seems like one of those operations that's going to come up every once in a while.

    EDIT: Sorry, by force of habit I made the image a .png instead of a .jpeg
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx ngon master
    Hey,

    Starting to get into 3D modeling and I've run into a small problem, where I want to extrude one face into a shape over top of another face, where the two faces will share a set of vertices after the extrude. I was trying to model a tank, but have moved past the problem now, so all I have is this quick example I made in 3DS Max. Essentially though there was a box that extruded out from the main hull over top of the track as shown below, but in the 'real' problem I only wanted to make the box cover a small portion of the track (whereas in this example it covers the whole track; if that was the case I would have just extruded the whole side at once).



    I thought I would just be able to extrude the face out, and then delete the two faces that separate the upper extrusion and the bottom extrusion and weld the vertices together. But that didn't work at all, so I ended up separating the tracks into a separate object and just extruding out so that the part I was trying to extrude just looked like it was resting on the tracks.

    I was wondering if there was a 'most efficient' way to do this kind of thing though, because this seems like one of those operations that's going to come up every once in a while.

    EDIT: Sorry, by force of habit I made the image a .png instead of a .jpeg
    don't really get this..but something like this? 

  • EosOfOrcus
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    EosOfOrcus polycounter lvl 4
    @TheDarkKnight @Thanez Thank you guys for the advice. I can see your point @TheDarkKnight i'll give a shot today and see how it works i might be able to get some extra crisp edges. @Thanez Thanks for your advice Thanez. But i don't know i can make your method work in maya. Since you are using 3ds max tools
  • prav697
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    prav697 null
    Hi Guys,
    I am modelling a complex object but facing some 
    challenges.Can someone please help me with this.
    Thank you for your time 
    Problems to solve 
    1.topology
    2.pinches 


  • Rolfisway
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    Rolfisway polycounter lvl 2
    Hi guys! I've done a mesh fo SubD. Could you give me feedback? I would appreciate it, thank you!
    https://imgur.com/a/gqYgX

  • WeeLittleSpoon
    don't really get this..but something like this? 

    Thanks, appreciate it!
  • Whoolkan
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    Whoolkan polycounter lvl 6
    Heya!
    trying to extrude a circle along a curve, but i'm not getting uniform results. any suggestion on what i may be doing wrong?
    because so far i only manage to have the desired result with classic poly modeling
    ^ this is the curve and curve extrude settings


    ^ this is the result, not uniform at the 90° turns, start and end.

    any suggestion is appreciated
  • Axi5
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    Axi5 interpolator

    Yeah this stuff is always a pain. If you just want a tube, my quick-tip for this is to apply a paintFX basic brush to the profile, then go to Modify-> Convert->PaintFX to Geometry (Go into the settings and disable triangulate/non-quads)

    You could also try the Create Tube tools in Bonus tools.

    One favorite way I use very often, is to create a Cylinder, turn up it's height divisions a lot and then apply a curve warp deformer to it (if curve warp is missing make sure it's enabled in your plugins). Then uncheck "Keep Length". The nice thing about this method is that it allows you to use multiple profiles like the Curve Extrude function does, but deforms better.

    Regarding your current settings nothing looks particularly wrong. You might try changing the Result position to "At Path", sometimes this produces a slightly nicer result.
  • Whoolkan
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    Whoolkan polycounter lvl 6
    Axi5 said:

    Yeah this stuff is always a pain. If you just want a tube, my quick-tip for this is to apply a paintFX basic brush to the profile, then go to Modify-> Convert->PaintFX to Geometry (Go into the settings and disable triangulate/non-quads)

    You could also try the Create Tube tools in Bonus tools.

    One favorite way I use very often, is to create a Cylinder, turn up it's height divisions a lot and then apply a curve warp deformer to it (if curve warp is missing make sure it's enabled in your plugins). Then uncheck "Keep Length". The nice thing about this method is that it allows you to use multiple profiles like the Curve Extrude function does, but deforms better.

    Regarding your current settings nothing looks particularly wrong. You might try changing the Result position to "At Path", sometimes this produces a slightly nicer result.
    Many thanks!
    i ultimately managed to do it the old fashioned way in a couple of minutes with a bunch of toruses. About the create tube tools, i totally forgot them and didn't knew about the curve warp deformer at all (with this appication at least). Thanks for the suggestion, i will def look into both methods to see if i can pull off something interesting.

    bonus pic for the result, was modeling the mic on my desk

  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina interpolator
    prav697 said:
    Hi Guys,
    I am modelling a complex object but facing some 
    challenges.Can someone please help me with this.
    Thank you for your time 
    Problems to solve 
    1.topology
    2.pinches 


    you want the spiral shape to continue on the top and don't try to solve the additional controlloops on the slope if you don't have to



  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 6
    Hey guys, I'm trying to model Clank's(from Ratchet and Clank) shoe and I'm getting pinching where the corner ends up being:


    You can see the hard edge warping because I don't know where to kill off the loops because there are no flat surfaces:


    Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
  • Thanez
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    Thanez interpolator
    @guitarguy00 M8 that's the "cutting a hole in a cylinder problem" and has been solved many times before in this thread. Read back to find your solution. 
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx ngon master
    Hey guys, I'm trying to model Clank's(from Ratchet and Clank) shoe and I'm getting pinching where the corner ends up being:


    You can see the hard edge warping because I don't know where to kill off the loops because there are no flat surfaces:


    Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
    without doing the modell, always and i say this because many come back with the same problem. Always have consistency between your edges when working on a curved surface. ..couldnt help it..
  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 6
    wirrexx said:
    Hey guys, I'm trying to model Clank's(from Ratchet and Clank) shoe and I'm getting pinching where the corner ends up being:


    You can see the hard edge warping because I don't know where to kill off the loops because there are no flat surfaces:


    Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
    without doing the modell, always and i say this because many come back with the same problem. Always have consistency between your edges when working on a curved surface. ..couldnt help it..

    wirrexx said:
    Hey guys, I'm trying to model Clank's(from Ratchet and Clank) shoe and I'm getting pinching where the corner ends up being:


    You can see the hard edge warping because I don't know where to kill off the loops because there are no flat surfaces:


    Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
    without doing the modell, always and i say this because many come back with the same problem. Always have consistency between your edges when working on a curved surface. ..couldnt help it..
    Thank you so much. This helps tremendously not just in this example but in every case going forward. Much appreciated.
  • EosOfOrcus
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    EosOfOrcus polycounter lvl 4
    Thank you guys for the help. Here is a little update of object with the advice you guys gave me. 
    Any C&C is welcome. I want to try and practice more :sunglasses:

  • Casynova
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    Casynova null

    I'm a newbie modeler and I'm doing a scene for my portfolio class and I have no earthly idea how to even comprehend this wired accessory. Help!
  • throttlekitty
    Casynova said:

    I'm a newbie modeler and I'm doing a scene for my portfolio class and I have no earthly idea how to even comprehend this wired accessory. Help!
    The etiquette for this thread is that you post your attempts, the thread is about improving technique, not freebie guided tutorials. That's such a low quality picture giving little sense of depth, it's hard to say what the shape is. That said, I'm guessing it's a half-sphere made of wires following some kind of pattern. I'd probably trace a single wire out in photoshop to get a feel for what the pattern is, then recreate it in 3d by tracing curves on a sphere or whatever the shape is.
  • FromFinland
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    FromFinland polycounter lvl 2
    Hey guys! What sort of topology should i use here to get sharp corner?



    Just denser cylinder and do it like this? Whats the ideal topology for this kind of shape? I don't wanna make this area too dense though.

  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina interpolator


    topology on the right is better, look at the highlights
  • hajnis
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    hajnis polycounter lvl 3
    Hi, is it ok to do this? Its right i wanted to be, but topology is bit messed up.


  • TheLittleJay
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    TheLittleJay polycounter lvl 5
    Hey all, been retopogizing a stegosaurus and wanted some feedback on how to lay out the quads around those big spikes.




    Since the spikes are asymmetrical I can't just have a single row going down the middle. I've currently got this setup, as it keeps the quads pretty even. I don't know if all the 6 pointers would cause problems though. Is this topo ok as is, or does anyone have a better idea? 



    EDIT: Or am I over-thinking things and should just have the spikes as intersecting geo instead? (The model will be used in a games engine.) 
  • hajnis
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    hajnis polycounter lvl 3
    Hi TheLittleJay, i think that there is no need to make this low poly as one object, rather stegosaurus as one and spikes as other meshes.
  • TheLittleJay
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    TheLittleJay polycounter lvl 5
    Thanks for the response perna,

    For the sake of time I ended up keeping the body and spikes as separate geo. I've got a deadline and other projects also need my attention, so I decided to save time.  But I'm aware my re-topo skills still need improvement, so I'd love to discuss it a bit. 

    Ideally I wanted to keep them all as one mesh, I'm aware of the benefits. It helps with baking (substance doesn't seem to like baking intersecting geo), the intersection can look unnaturally sharp when it comes to textures/lighting, the separate chunks can slide around when animated, etc. That being said I have seen examples of character meshes that keep some parts separate.

    For example this dinosaur kept the spikes as separate meshes and it seems to animate ok: https://sketchfab.com/models/e635ac2ae2f646229927e982c936da5d   
    One of the middle spikes does slide around a bit during the attack animation but otherwise looks alright. It seems like the spike clipping could be put down to the extreme pose, a more subtle animation and it wouldn't be noticeable. 

    So are there ever times where devs might keep parts of a character mesh as separate? 

    (EDIT: forgot to attach pic) 
  • Thanez
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    Thanez interpolator
    @TheLittleJay
    As a rule of thumb I would listen to Perna. 
    If your end product is just the model with textures, then sure your decision on using floaters may have saved you some time. If this is going to be animated, the project most likely took a hit from this.
    It's way faster and easier for you to retopo the spikes in one solid mesh like your first pic shows you planned to, than it is for an animator to make sure those floaty spikes don't float around during animations.
    As for discussing your topology, there's a lot of geo on the sides of the spikes that don't seem to do a whole lot in terms of shape or silhouette. Not that you should necessarily cut all that out, but use those tris in a more sensible way. Are there any details on your highpoly that your lowpoly would gain from having represented in the model? If yes, then use those polys there instead.

  • TheLittleJay
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    TheLittleJay polycounter lvl 5
    ''there's a lot of geo on the sides of the spikes that don't seem to do a whole lot in terms of shape or silhouette. Not that you should necessarily cut all that out, but use those tris in a more sensible way.''

    I considered cutting those down, but I wasn't sure if it was better to keep my model in quads with clean edge flow / loops so that it could be scaled up or down in resolution easily. Triangulating parts would mean going back and making a lower LOD a longer job since I can't just delete entire loops. (or am I missing something? are LODs more of an environment asset thing?)
  • hajnis
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    hajnis polycounter lvl 3
    TheLittleJay: I think if You cut down half (3 times?) of your vertices, then its still ok. For spikes and plates there is no need for clean topology as they will not be animated (like bending etc.), so you can reduce tris count singificantly.

    About LODs  I am doing this all by hand so I have more control and still good topology with quads and minimum triangles..
  • Thanez
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    Thanez interpolator
    If the geo doesn't add anything, why keep it? Making good LODs are gonna take a little time, but is great practice in practicality. The left one has 23 tris on the flat side while yours looks the same and has 120 (eye-math)

    See how those loops are still connected, and still easily reducable?
  • drinkwater101
    ANSWER: It wasn't all one polygroup. The model needs to be all one polygroup.


    ZBrush Question! Help please!


    Why do parts of the character's face not scale down (move or rotate too) when I attempt to scale the model down?
    The entire character is considered 1 Subtool.

  • TheLittleJay
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    TheLittleJay polycounter lvl 5
    @Thanez @perna I don't have time to re-topo my entire mesh, so I just had a crack at a chunk:

     
    (there's a slight budge down the middle of the spikes so I wanted a little extra geo to catch that) 

    This section of the spikes is a bit trickier than the rest, since these 3 middle spikes are too close together to be connected by the same way as I'd done before. Thus it doesn't feel as clean and a few of the quads between the cyan loops feel a bit stretched. 

    I also wasn't too sure on the flow of these 2 loops. They are needed to properly catch the curve of the spike. The outside / green loop seems fine, it will just travel down the body. But the inside / orange loop will just continue round and... ew. Bit too messy.
    Any advice? 

  • Thanez
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    Thanez interpolator
    @TheLittleJay
    That looks ace IMO. It'll bake well and deform well because the mesh's quads are pretty evenly sized. The more even you can make it, the better it'll deform. Those loops you're unsure of won't be a problem. 
  • PicSim
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    PicSim polycounter lvl 8
    Hi guys,
    How would you model this to create a modular ground? I tried tileable texture but it's not quite the same result. Create different unique hi-res models and bake it? If so, how would you model it in a fast way, nanomesh or arraymesh?

    Thanks a lot!



  • Soyal
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    Soyal null
    I want to model a small indentation (red shape below) on top of my model to make it look like a cover you can take off. My idea is to place a thick spline on top of my model and substract it with boolean but I have no idea how to make the spline stick to the surface precisely so I can use boolean. The red shape should be rounded like a cable so the gap is uniform.
  • Neox
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    Neox veteran polycounter
    Casynova said:

    I'm a newbie modeler and I'm doing a scene for my portfolio class and I have no earthly idea how to even comprehend this wired accessory. Help!
    create the basic shape of the bowl, then retopo your pattern on top of that, use the shell modifier and you should have a solid base to work with
  • Klaus Hustle
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    Klaus Hustle polycounter lvl 8
    Hey!

    Can someone give me advice on modeling my form right here, i tried alot and i'm pretty much stuck right now.. 

    I'm having troubles to arrange my supporting-edges without screwing up my form in the round areas.. my inital attempts were much worse, but after buying a subD model-kit for kinda 'reaearch' and browsing this thread (to a degree!) i think i stepped it up from what i got before.. but this certain area as seen on the image is giving me troubles..



    The last image just shows where my edges are going, because i changed it a little from the first image.
  • Klaus Hustle
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    Klaus Hustle polycounter lvl 8
    Just a small update, so maybe spare some extra time for someone who likes to look into it:



    the pinching and overall mesh seems to be way better now, but still got some pinching, it's not that bad, but i would like to know if something could be done about it..

    overall it helped me to keep the polycount high from the get go 
  • WilliamVaughan
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    WilliamVaughan greentooth
    One example of modeling threads: https://youtu.be/faitojW1mwA
  • drinkwater101
    ZBrush Question - 

    Does this ever happen to anyone else too? 
    I will be in the middle of working and then a duplicate model will pop up with no way to undo this option. 
    Each time this happens I have to go back to the most recent QuickSave. This can't be the right answer. 


    This is the issue with the duplicated model. One model is stationary and won't allow any editing, and also won't allow me to press undo and delete this model. My goal is to only work on one model of this male. I am unsure what causes the model to duplicate and how to rid this duplicated item without having to open work that doesn't have the most recent updates, in the QuickSave section.





     Below, is the single model. How do I turn the above image into the below? I only need 1 editable model.


    Your help is greatly appreciated in advance, thank you
  • JRay
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    JRay polycounter lvl 10
    Its probably because you hit shift+s, you can clear it by hitting ctrl+n
  • drinkwater101
    Thanks JRay. Ctrl+N (Clear Layer) worked 


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