How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • mverta
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    mverta vertex
    Gentlemen (and ladies) - 

    Brand-new to subd's, and despite reading the thread, still wonder: What is the best way to solve the triangle and n-gon here?




    Thanks, everyone!

    _Mike
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • mverta
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    mverta vertex
    Well that's very cool of him. I do the same when able.
  • Ausonian
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    Ausonian polycounter lvl 8
    @TeriyakiStyle
    C'mon, don't be so resentful now, I was serious in my last post;  you are polluting  :neutral:
    @mverta
    No need to kill the triangles and n-gons here since the surface is flat and they don't bother, by the way if for some reason it must be all quads, I would do as this:


  • WaYWO
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    WaYWO polycounter lvl 5
    @mverta if you want an accurate answer, please upload your mesh...
  • mverta
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    mverta vertex
    @Ausonian So simple. Thank you. Just starting out here,  every day I feel like an idiot for not seeing the solution. 

    @WaYWO I'll be sure to do that in the future. Thanks for the tip! What's the preferred format for meshes? 
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • mverta
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    mverta vertex
    @TeriyakiStyle  Thank you for that.  In my first tests I consistently find I'm a little overly-conservative with polycount, as well.  I want to be efficient, but I also make it hard on myself by not having enough initial subdivisions.  I think my judgement there will come in time.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Hey guys, I just want to say I'm proud of each and every one of you niblets.

    The rants and rages and attempts to help other who then turn out to be ungrateful and rage and rant and, and and endless discussions of making a compendium of MOARGEO solutions and people still in 2017 trying to avoid triangles, it's familiar and heart-warming. Classic Polycount. Don't clean up the thread, don't compile solutions into a Wiki, this living beast of social interaction is a beaut, and I thank you for keeping it that way.

    Unless you're jew or black.


    Ziik, sorry, I'll get back to you next time I'm at a proper computer.
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 3
    Grandpa's going racist again.
    Hahahaha

  • Ausonian
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    Ausonian polycounter lvl 8
    @perna
    Rants that can seem harsher than they really are, thanks to text only discussion; from me, peace and love :smile:
  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    @TeriyakiStyle You didn't help him tho, you just threw a whole lot of geo at the problem, creating new and interesting problems. There's skewing and pinching all over that thing.

    @mverta you're making an odd shape in an odd place with no logical quad-minded place to end your loops, that's what you're having trouble with. Triangles can be the solution if they're on a flat surface supported with double edgeloops.
    1. Secure your outer silhouette's smoothing with edge loop. yas.
    2. Make your weird-ass indent.
    3. Secure indent's silhouette's smoothing with edge loop. yeish.
    4. Doublesecure them bitches with double edgeloops.
    5. Terminate indent's outermost edgeloop at the outer edge's innermost edgeloop.
    Fuck this wall of text is chaotic. Will edit with pic when i get home.

    Edit: pic as promised

    This is the girl you bang, not the one you marry.
  • helinc
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    helinc null
    Hey guys ! 
    I don't understand...I thought my topo was good but I have some pinching on my mesh...
    Is there something wrong with my topology ?  Can I avoid them ?


  • igi
  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    What igi is trying to say is that the reason you have pinching is because the flow or roundness of the hole is different from the rest of the main mesh. There's many ways to fix it, one being modeling the hole as a rectangle with proper support loops so the flat bits at the top and bottom get rounded. Another is to model It the way you did, but on a flat surface, then use bend modifier to get it rounded. 
    Do read that article tho, there's a lot of good stuff in there that you can come back to if you get in trouble. 
  • helinc
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    helinc null
    thx a lot for the help guys I'll check it right now ;)
  • mverta
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    mverta vertex
    @Thanez  Thank you for taking the time.  So far, the top-down thinking on how to approach this stuff hasn't solidified yet.  I understand the solutions given to me, but as soon as I'm in any case that's not identical, I seem to be unable to apply the concepts.  It's too bad there aren't more 1:1 tutors for this stuff!
  • helinc
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    helinc null
    I tried to redo the big vertical holes using the bend technique but i got the same result...Does it means it just needs more resolution to work properly ?


  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    @mverta no problem dude. All it takes is practice. Make different models with interesting shapes, and tackle all the little errors that show up.

    @helinc IDK why that didn't work, that's weird. I see that you have a lot of supporting geometry for the hole which may be making problems for you since the surrounding geo is round. Try removing all but one of the support loops and see how that goes.
    That's what I did for this, but I overdid it like I overdo everything: http://skins.thanez.net/357/marmoset/
  • Ausonian
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    Ausonian polycounter lvl 8
    @helinc
    You should simplify those insets, like this; if you see pinching, it's red vertices fault, try moving them :)

  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro polycounter
    the solution for that is in page one of this thread :)
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    @TeriyakiStyle IDK what you mean about actual subd, so here's a preview with 2xTS in isoline cause that's what ppl usually post on here.

    And a 2017 max file for good measure: http://skins.thanez.net/help/mverta-weird-topology.max

    What I mean about throwing GEO at it, is that you simply chamfered the corners and the beveled edges. I added supporting loops that can be edited or even completely removed without affecting the original mesh. Chamfering absolutely helps with the smoothing as the angles of the edges are overall less harsh, but, and here's y Perna rages at MOARGEO: It didn't solve the problem (only alleviated the pain), instead of learning "y subd do wat it do" you crapped out with a destructive (read: non-reversible and non-editable) chamfer and you're still left with a messy mesh because you put even more verts on there that you didn't get to cap off properly. When you regret that later you're gonna have to remodel that part. 

    Put a glossy material on your model and some lights in the scene, and study your edges and the corners of the bevel, and you'll see what I mean
    #sorry if I come off as harsh, I'm kinda like perna but less good and more racist. 
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • sheheryar_noor
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    sheheryar_noor polycounter lvl 4
    perna said:
      is there any problem in 3d modeling which you don't have simple solutions of?: ) Great tutorial.
    I was going same but without Itoo it is going to be hard to move it along the path. THanks
  • redarchfiend


    So I've been stuck on this for far longer than I would like to admit, and I need some assistance.
    I am trying to make a thing like a shoelace tied in a very specific manner in a pattern through the hilt of the sword.

    Picture for reference:

    I tried a few things but my best idea was manually twisting each face to a similar result, as you can see it is very ugly and unusable in any sense.
    I imagine this may be more easily done in a sculpting program, but I haven't started learning them yet.
    And yes I know that even the above abomination isn't even remotely close to the original, which is why I did not even try to work on the bottom cross. My approaches are obviously completely incorrect.

    It is difficult for me to even explain the shape, but here are two videos of how they tie it.


    The paper thing in the second video is to hold the shape of the first half of the string while you cross the second half.
    There is some sort of sticky stuff on the string to keep the shape together.

    Here is a closeup.
    Of note is that the side of the string that is on the top alternates with every cross, because the pattern continues on the back side of the hilt with a small displacement.

    just can't see how one would do this in a reasonable manner, I'm guessing curves would be used to trace the form somehow but that still would not be very great..
    All of this is done with a single piece of long string, and even if I were to just make one of the cross sections to duplicate (to add end pieces separately) I feel it is extremely difficult to get the shape correct if I am just manipulating individual edges, I am not sure how to work with the shape evenly/properly when it is like.. a bracelet-like shape with so many points&edges to offset for a single change in angle.

    Advice would be greatly appreciated.
  • sheheryar_noor
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    sheheryar_noor polycounter lvl 4
    Hey guys,

    Im trying to model this detail for a VR scene for a client but I can't for the life of me work out a simple way to model it.


    I've tried using Boolean on a Helix spline but the cleanup required will take hours and it also produces poor results.

    Any Suggestions?

    Thank you advance!

    http://www.screencast.com/t/EsmxPt2L

    Make a small part (Tileable) with boolean, clean it out, make copies of it, attach,weld and boom :) . I think this method will work.



  • sheheryar_noor
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    sheheryar_noor polycounter lvl 4
    @redarchfiend . This might help you. http://prntscr.com/el3z88  Not done by me.
    You would have to make the one part(top) but in your case it is not think like the ref so better you make it a bit wide. Mirror it and place it below the top one, make copies. Maybe it will work or maybe it wont :D

  • Nam.Nguyen
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    Nam.Nguyen polycounter lvl 5
    @redarchfiend

    I used FFD modifier, but I think Lattices in Maya can do the same job, basically  just add some control points and twisting it manually. Spend some time to adjusting till you get the result you want.  This image is just a quick example



  • redarchfiend
    @redarchfiend . This might help you. http://prntscr.com/el3z88  Not done by me.
    You would have to make the one part(top) but in your case it is not think like the ref so better you make it a bit wide. Mirror it and place it below the top one, make copies. Maybe it will work or maybe it wont :D

    Thanks for the idea, I'll keep it in mind for a future project. I think it might be a little different from what I need for this one in particular though.

    @redarchfiend

    I used FFD modifier, but I think Lattices in Maya can do the same job, basically  just add some control points and twisting it manually. Spend some time to adjusting till you get the result you want.  This image is just a quick example
    [image]
    That looks really good, I think I might be able to get it with something like that. Thanks for the help, will try it out.
  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    @redarchfiend

    I used FFD modifier, but I think Lattices in Maya can do the same job, basically  just add some control points and twisting it manually. Spend some time to adjusting till you get the result you want.  This image is just a quick example



    I didn't have time to try this today, but I think adding wire deformers along or just inside the cylinder boundaries before the lattice would give you nice control over how the fold happens during the flip.
  • boski_miszczu
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    boski_miszczu polycounter lvl 3
    hello!
    I always have a problem with this type of geometry (irregular shape with tons of vertices on the top and few on the botton). I cut this shape and now I need to connect vertices. How do it properly to achieve the best edge flow? I know that this is flat surface and many mistake will be forgiven.



    and this is what I done so far - is it correct?:



    I will be grateful for your help!!
    Best regards 
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 5
    boski_miszczu You may want to add one more inner loop so it follows the shape of your object. The way how are you going to connect it doesn't really matter since it is a flat surface. But for lowpoly you may want to remove unnecessary edges.
  • mobpapst
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    mobpapst polycounter lvl 4
    Hey guys,

    i'm asking myself how to tackle this piece here. any ideas how to get these carzy forms the best way?



  • gfelton
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    gfelton polycounter lvl 5
    mobpapst said:
    -snip-

    As is customary, show us what kind of progress or attempt you have made with this piece.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    mobpapst said:
    Hey guys,

    i'm asking myself how to tackle this piece here. any ideas how to get these carzy forms the best way?



    block it out, build the geometry as simple as possibles, without booleans, just seperate pieces. 
  • mobpapst
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    mobpapst polycounter lvl 4
    wirrexx said:
    block it out, build the geometry as simple as possibles, without booleans, just seperate pieces. 
    Hey there and thanks for your reply. I think this peace will need a lot of booleans if i want to let it look right even when i want to use it for first person
  • Pedro Amorim
    the best way to do that object is to just do it.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Mob: Your question is too vague and not technical. In the context of this thread you don't model an "object", you model individual shapes. Which individual shape are you having issues with and what exactly is your issue with that shape?

    @wirrexx  says to avoid booleans not for the final mesh, but for the blockout, which is not just good advice but an absolute must. Always make a high-quality blockout before bothering with transitions and edge control.
  • dunenkoff
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    dunenkoff vertex
    Hi guys,

    I decided to up my hardsurface skills (but only after reading the entire thread).





    How did I do and what I can do better?
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • dunenkoff
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    dunenkoff vertex
    the edges in the sub-d are really sharp - you might want to experiment and compare bakes after slightly softening the edge transitions so more info bakes into the maps.  you can think of it like... a razor sharp edge will be one pixel in the normal map - but something with a nicer roll will have more pixels baked out to describe the edge.  And it will mip down nicer.
    I was trying to recreate the original shape which is part plastic part pressed metal with sharp edges, but yeah, it doesn't look good.

    EDIT: Keyshot render

  • Finnn
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    Finnn polycounter lvl 3
    How do I model a circular shape around a 4 corner shape around a circular shape? I get overlapping face. Tried multiple ways but nothing worked, help please :)




  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @FinnIsengardt  : Make the cylinders actual cylinders (12- or 16-sided) instead of spending lots of time and effort putting together awkward geometry in an effort to derive them from boxes.

    Talking of which, why do you choose that approach? It's slow, painful, subdivides poorly and carries no apparent benefits. Is this done following a tutorial or something?


  • Finnn
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    Finnn polycounter lvl 3
    ok I will try it that way. No I was experimenting, Im new to modelling but trying my best.

  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @FinnIsengardt , that's cool. My suggestion is don't over-think things.

    Do what makes sense to you on a rational level. For example, if a shape is meant to be round, make it round, not square. Don't blindly follow any advice you're given and you'll avoid a lot of confusion.


    Below:
    1. Base mesh. 12 segments for the cylinder divided by four sides of the rectangle = 3, which is exactly how many polygons we need for control loops for the rectangular part.
    2. Here control loops are added. In this case it's done automatically with Quad Chamfer and a Vertex Weld modifier.
    3. Sub-divided wireframe.
    4. Sans wireframe.
    16 sides might be a cleaner choice as maintaining center lines is often important. You'd just route the 4 extra cylinder edges through the center of the rectangular shapes.




  • MaxTheModeller
    Hello, i'm new here. I would like to ask anyone for a way to solve this.

    As seen in the image 1 i don't get perfectly rounded shape in the border, and in the middle of the shape i get hard edges, which i don't want, i want hard edges in the extrude but in everywhere else i want it to be soft. Hope somebody can help me. I'm really new to this. Thanks for your attention. The image 2 shows my wireframe.
  • Finnn
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    Finnn polycounter lvl 3
    perna said:
    @FinnIsengardt , that's cool. My suggestion is don't over-think things.

    Do what makes sense to you on a rational level. For example, if a shape is meant to be round, make it round, not square. Don't blindly follow any advice you're given and you'll avoid a lot of confusion.


    Below:
    1. Base mesh. 12 segments for the cylinder divided by four sides of the rectangle = 3, which is exactly how many polygons we need for control loops for the rectangular part.
    2. Here control loops are added. In this case it's done automatically with Quad Chamfer and a Vertex Weld modifier.
    3. Sub-divided wireframe.
    4. Sans wireframe.
    16 sides might be a cleaner choice as maintaining center lines is often important. You'd just route the 4 extra cylinder edges through the center of the rectangular shapes.





    Thank you for your detailed answer, I managed to do this with 12 and 16 segments. Thanks for your adviive



    I have one more question!

    In my first post you can see the original piece. Do you think these screws are extra geometry or just modelled in one piece?
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @FinnIsengardt
    Nice work! On your question: what would be your approach to answering it yourself? If you were to rely on common sense and logical thinking as opposed to obscure "rules" of 3d art. Weigh pros and cons and so on.

    @MaxTheModeller
    In order to make a surface with constant curvature you need both space and angle between all the elements to be equal. Currently some of the elements break with this rule, therefore you have hard angles instead of a smooth curve.

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