Oh man! We got Kirkman coming to the studio for some marketing stuff today and a few of us here are already planning on nerd it up hard about last night's episode to him.
Awesome episode, great set up for the season finale!
I'm glad Carl shot Shane, its too bad it was zombie Shane and not "about to murder Rick for Lori" Shane, but oh well, that's still a lot to unpack for a miniature adult.
Comic-esk spoiler
I'm glad they are bringing around how the walkers turn. I half expected the chick that tried to commit suicide to be "turned" when they broke open the bathroom door a few episodes back. But its weird that the characters have preconceive zombie lore stuck in their heads (must be bitten to turn) when they aren't supposed to have anything like that in their society or culture and they get pretty chummy with zombies on a regular basis and don't seem to mind.
Great episode! Definitely a lot of shit hitting the fan, looks like the show is finally moving forward.... And...I guess...it only took an entire season? uhg..
although I was spoiled by someone mentioning that Shane dies in the comics, I'm kinda bummed to see him go, He was the only character I actually had any interest in other than Darrel. Speaking of which, I really want it to go back to his story again, with his missing brother.
The whole farm scene is getting a little boring, I really want to actually see them going through buildings/towns/cities.. I guess it's just expensive to clear them out for filming so they dragged on the farm shit for entire season.
@Jfletcher, if they continue to use the comics as a general guideline for the show then we aren't going to be seeing any cities for a long while. There will be a few towns and one facility that I won't spoil but there's not going to be anything like Atlanta for a while.
As for them staying on the farm for the whole season, I'm alright with it for the most part. It would have been nice if there were some other side trips and events that didn't revolve completely around Sofia or Rick/Shane/Lori in the first half of the season (Like going to the bar to retrieve Hershel) but meh. Staying on the farm also works out well development wise for the group as a whole. It was almost like they were back to a society and the walkers weren't nearly important. Now that Dale died and the horde is incoming I'm thinking after that they're going to realize more firmly that there is no going back and they're not going to be able to live like they used to.
Comic Talk:
I just realized that now that they've figured out that anyone who dies will become a walker will get rid of a few unnecessary characters in season 3. Tyrone's retarded daughter and boyfriend mainly. Also right now I'm thinking that they won't run into the other group of survivors but that those survivors will somehow find their way to Woodbury. That wouldn't fit with the Comic's Woodbury since the citizens weren't evil, just the Governor and some of his guys were. If they go that route though then Woodbury could turn out to be a lot more fucked up than it was in the comics considering these other survivors apparently raped some girls in the woods and are possibly aiming to take over the farm.
It didn't get worse compared to the end of season 1 at least. The rest of the first half of the season was a bit slow and they focused too much on the Sofia search. The second half of the season has been quite nice though.
If you're looking to watch the rest they're doing a marathon of the whole second season starting at episode 3 on Sunday starting at like 11:00 AM.
@Odium I hate to say it but you could probably skip to episode 11 and not miss much of anything, minor plot points are always talked about again and again anyway. 11 and 12 are worth watching. I wouldn't poke around in this thread to find out why either, go watch 'em!
Shane was the most interesting and compelling character on the show. Sad to see him go. They are running out of characters though, pretty soon it will just be hershall and `T Dog` lol.
Thought it was funny when they where giving the funeral rick mentioned "that look he gave" I was thinking to myself that's the only look he ever had on this face!
Thought it was funny when they where giving the funeral rick mentioned "that look he gave" I was thinking to myself that's the only look he ever had on this face!
haha! very true
I'm gonna miss Shane, I was hoping he'd go out more like a hero. like after a fight with Rick, maybe he'd end up proving them all wrong and sacrifice his life to save them vs a bunch of walkers/humans or something like that
@Odium I wouldn't skip anything. I mean honestly... I don't think 6 or whatever episodes is a big commitment. People may be hating on them but I would say that they aren't that bad.
Personally I don't get why Shane turned into a zombie. Same with the prisoner guy. My roommate is like "That isn't a big deal. Who cares?" I care. I think that is huge! I feel like if I was in one of the characters in the show... that would be I big "WTF?" moment.
On another note... what the fuck is going on with Carl? His character just doesn't make sense. Like I thought they made it pretty clear that he had learned his lesson about going out. And he is just magically going to slip out when they are essentially in lockdown? Like is his Mom that retarded that she is going to be outsmarted this many times?
since we're not doing the whole dual thread thing here, Talbot the following is for you, it's mostly comic stuff explaining about the death = zombie thing:
In the comic, shane dies a lot earlier... when he's "stalking" rick in the woods, he's about to pull the trigger, and carl shoots him. they hold a burial and move on.
later in the comic, two characters have a suicide pact with each other, and after they have sex one shoots herself while the other can't bring himmself to do it. the girls father finds them and the girl comes back as a zombie. the father has to do her in, but then strangles the boy to death and waits for him to come back so he can have his "revenge" so to speak.
rick confirms his suspicion that you don't need to be bitten, by returning to shanes grave and taunting him, making enough noise to "disturb" him. shane comes out of the grave and rick shoots him.
after that, all the characters are very conscious that you don't need to be bitten or scratched or ever even come in contact with a zombie to become one. you simply need to die, however being bitten "inflames" the virus and causes you to die much quicker. it becomes a motivating factor for a lot of people to stay alive, and survive. they don't want to become a zombie through an accidental death or anything. it also causes some characters to go completely off the rails and just want to end their lives now since it doesn't matter in the long run anyway (to them).
What Gir said. Also Talbot, Carl is a kid. He still probably doesn't understand the gravity of the situation with the world and is just being a kid. Especially since he has no playmates he's looking for something to do. He's not going to act like a rational adult because he's not one. He's 8 years old and he's bored as shit.
I have to admit, that is something that really annoyed me at the end of that episode. They went into total fucking lockdown mode where everyone got into the house, then Carl just slips out? I mean...what, is Lori fucking stupid? Oh wait, of course she is, she flipped a car upside down from swerving out the way of a walker.. They really can't protect that kid at all, they aren't even keeping an eye on him anymore.
Yeah, there were a few eye brow raising moments. Carl getting out, them being in a field 100 yards from the house somehow ... just odd. Shane was not something I was expecting though, so that was cool. Plus the revelation that you don't need to be bitten ... I hope they do something cool with that next season.
I have to admit, that is something that really annoyed me at the end of that episode. They went into total fucking lockdown mode where everyone got into the house, then Carl just slips out? I mean...what, is Lori fucking stupid? Oh wait, of course she is, she flipped a car upside down from swerving out the way of a walker.. They really can't protect that kid at all, they aren't even keeping an eye on him anymore.
Shane was right damn it! argh.
Didn't he also slip into the meeting through a window, when they where discussing what to do with the prisoner, after his mom told him to stay outside? I think it just proves how hard its going to be to keep the farm house safe. Lots of windows on the ground floor in almost every room.
On one hand they need to look after him but on the other hes at the age that they need to start trusting him to make his own decisions and they can't strap him in a stroller and wheel him around everywhere. He's at the age where he isn't always going to do what his parents say unless it makes perfect sense. In a way its his own survival instincts kicking in, people are most scared of what they don't know and don't understand and sneaking around being a snoop and testing things out on his own are his way of trying to learn how to deal with that stuff.
He has that attitude of
"damn mom always telling me what to do, don't run off and get eaten, don't play with guns you'll shoot somebody, knives are sharp, don't climb that tree bla bla bla whatever I can handle stuff!"
Soon it will be:
"get the hell out of my life!" /door slam
"...oh... but after you drive me and Suzie to town... and don't forget to cut the crust off my sandwich!"
Oh, the farm house is gone. Did you see that final scene? There's like a city worth of zombies descending. I'd be shocked if they staged a defense rather than running.
Yeah I'm not mad at the kid, I understand that his character is evolving and that he's making those kind of decisions.
I'm pissed at Rick and Lori for being so high and mighty towards shane in saying that they can protect their son when in reality they don't even know where he is. The farm lockdown bit sticks out in particular because it was a group effort to just stick in one place for safety, as opposed to just a normal day where they could let him wander. This moment was one of the few times that Lori actually had to watch her Son.
After the whole thing with Carl getting shot (cba'd with spoiler tags the episode was ages ago anyway) you'd think they would be fucking nuts with safety in that situation.
But I guess it is a big house and there wasn't any 'immediate' danger so meh... but still, Lori annoys me.
why are all the un-bitten dead rising just now? has the virus mutated or something?
Reanimation
Infection
Robert Kirkman wrote:
"...the rule is: WHATEVER it is that causes the zombies, is something everyone already has. If you stub your toe, get an infection and die ... you turn into a zombie. UNLESS your brain is damaged. If someone shoots you in the head and you die ...you're dead. A zombie bite kills you because of infection, or blood loss ... not because of the zombie "virus.""
The most common way that people become a zombie is after dying from infection caused by a zombie bite. Symptoms of a zombie bite include:
Death (resulting in reanimation)
Lethal Fever
Chills
Hallucinations
Vomiting
Pale skin
Delirium
Sensitive bones
While there is no zombie "virus," zombie bites cause lethal infections. Thus, a person can become a zombie from dying of any cause other than brain damage.
According to (a character), a corpse can reanimate between three minutes and eight hours after death.
Interestingly, during the second season of the TV series, as the group is stopped on the highway there are multiple dead and decayed bodies that have not reanimated. Kirkman states the reason for this is because the passengers all suffered brain trauma from the car crashes.
thanks. it just seems kind of tacked on? my murky memory seems to serve up bajillions of places littered with dead bodies that haven't come back to life, now all of a sudden there's a stampede in that remote farm area? dunno.
That's the one thing that the comic doesn't explain, and it safe to discuss without spoiling; Why the people are infected. Obviously, after this episode, they pretty much made it clear, that you are already infected. Like a symbiant, the virus is there, but once you die, the virus takes over (unlike a symbiant).
I think they are eventually going to suggest that the government was testing a virus, or something got into water supplies. It would have to be something that affected everyone, everywhere though (or at least in the U.S.).
That being said, I'm beginning to wonder if the virus affects your personality too. Like Shane, who already seemed like he me be a bit of an ass (when the show started), then became crazy (irrational, and slapping himself in the head). But obviously, that personality changes can just be caused by the changing dynamics in life.
thanks. it just seems kind of tacked on? my murky memory seems to serve up bajillions of places littered with dead bodies that haven't come back to life, now all of a sudden there's a stampede in that remote farm area? dunno.
That's explained more later on. In the comic book's timeline, it's explained really soon. I'm not sure how they'll do it in the show.
That's the one downside, if you don't know the comics; there are actions they explain the comics, that don't play well to a TV audience (who want explanations sooner). For instance, I've seen several people here, and IRL, that think that they are killing too many people, especially too many antagonists. What they don't realize is, more people will get introduced later. They aren't the only non-walkers out there.
thanks. it just seems kind of tacked on? my murky memory seems to serve up bajillions of places littered with dead bodies that haven't come back to life, now all of a sudden there's a stampede in that remote farm area? dunno.
When Kirkman was in our studio yesterday he mentioned that it be explained in a cool way in the next episode. Can't wait til Sunday!
Yeah I'm not mad at the kid, I understand that his character is evolving and that he's making those kind of decisions.
I'm pissed at Rick and Lori for being so high and mighty towards shane in saying that they can protect their son when in reality they don't even know where he is. The farm lockdown bit sticks out in particular because it was a group effort to just stick in one place for safety, as opposed to just a normal day where they could let him wander. This moment was one of the few times that Lori actually had to watch her Son.
After the whole thing with Carl getting shot (cba'd with spoiler tags the episode was ages ago anyway) you'd think they would be fucking nuts with safety in that situation.
But I guess it is a big house and there wasn't any 'immediate' danger so meh... but still, Lori annoys me.
Yea I agree, they aren't being parents. Something tells me Rick wasn't really around before he was in the hospital and hes been pretty busy since. Which I agree Lori seems to be pretty clueless at times, too busy wringing her hands to be effective at anything. They'll probably blame the pregnancy....ugg... If he was my kid he would never leave my side, even on dangerous missions.
I think the whole "Rick you can't always be running off, Carl needs you" is going to come back into play soon. They've made it a issue in the past but I think its going to be pretty hardcore now that Shane is gone Rick doesn't really have anyone he trusts to keep things safe.
thanks. it just seems kind of tacked on? my murky memory seems to serve up bajillions of places littered with dead bodies that haven't come back to life, now all of a sudden there's a stampede in that remote farm area? dunno.
bear in mind as well that the walkers decompose at "roughly" the same rate as a normal dead person. so at some point they will undoubtedly stop being able to move at all. in fact in the comic there is at least one zombie who tries to grab someone but isn't strong enough to even keep their grip.
i think kirkman said that any time there is a corpse pile, it's likely to have been made prior to a national outbreak (ie. a small outbreak that's been "controlled") and/or many people involved in car crashes who've suffered brain trauma (and therefor cannot become zombies).
in fact he pretty explicitly states that anything but brain trauma will result in zombification.
So how is that a zombie that has its neck broken/spinal cord severed can still operate its body?
Comic spoiler:
in the book they cut off the heads and the body stops but the head is still going.
Also aren't walkers able to forestall decomposition if they are in mostly working order and eating regularly? I can't remember where in the comic they covered that but I thought it was covered... Or do they just pack in stuff until they burst? I don't remember that ever being covered.
When Kirkman was in our studio yesterday he mentioned that it be explained in a cool way in the next episode. Can't wait til Sunday!
Ya, I was gonna say, it doesnt have to make sense right now guys. That's the point. The character just noticed something strange. They haven't even had time to talk about it. So I'm sure there will be more on it next episode.
I don't think they actually ever explained in the comic how the infection started, how everyone got infected in the first place (most likely by water or airborn virus which was passive until a certain point), or at least I don't remember, plus didn't read them all/last of them.
And about why we wont see the zombies in large towns:
Obviously if you are a survivor, towns might sound like a great place to get supplies, however there is tons of zombies as well. Also in the comic the zombies ended up gathering in large herds that drifts from place to place, they have no brain function, but there is still this very basic group instinct apparently.
did the CDC actually have an isolated virus? I remember them talking about a tissue sample but not a viral culture. the reason I ask is that when Shane was turning there were weird flashes like an angry animal or something. Is a supernatural cause ruled out?
What they are showing is some kind of "dream" Shane is having as he turns un-dead (he is dying and then dies, then turns, that is when the steam/body heat thing starts). Same as when they found the dude Shane killed in the forest walking around: He died from the blow to the head, not a scratch or a bite.
Notman already posted it, but that is what it is...
Next episode is going to be awesome. I hope they get off the farm.
This may have been mentioned, i didn't read any other pages but, have we ever seen anyone die on screen in a non zombie-bite related death? I don't think we have. We have only assumed that the bites are causing the change, when it could just be death in and of itself.
I say its highly likely they've all been infected for a long time, and death brings it out, not being bit. The biting part probably just accelerates it and as expected blood loss or whatever helps you die.
Well, the guy in the lab did whisper something to Rick before blowing up. Also, there was the two zombie cops they found, which didn't have any bite marks.
They do assume, like most people when talking about zombies. Actually, why don't they just call a shovel a shovel, and call them zombies, why do they have to call them walkers?
Also Kirkman has said in The Walking Dead world that zombie lore and movies and such don't exist so they don't know what they're dealing with. Everyone just assumed that biting turned them because that's how they've seen pretty much everyone turn up until now, especially in all of the initial chaos after it just started spreading.
No zombie movies??!! Sorry, I would say that's just a way to get away with stupid plot holes. "He should know that..." "Yeah, they don't have zombie movies, so they don't think..." ....right. A world without zombie movie...what a joke.
No zombie movies??!! Sorry, I would say that's just a way to get away with stupid plot holes. "He should know that..." "Yeah, they don't have zombie movies, so they don't think..." ....right. A world without zombie movie...what a joke.
Haha, I'm stoked for Sunday night. It has to be airborne or something in the water. Otherwise, corpses would be climbing out of the ground all over, Night of the Living Dead-style.
Also, I love how Hershel's character has grown. He was not above looking back at all his convictions and beliefs, and thinking about them in an objective manner now that Zombieland is a whole nother world. Without this adjustment, his character was quite stale. Now he's all "How could I be so stupid?" while trying to rectify his relationship w his daughters and Glenn.
Haha, I'm stoked for Sunday night. It has to be airborne or something in the water. Otherwise, corpses would be climbing out of the ground all over, Night of the Living Dead-style.
Not necessarily. It could just be people that have died since the apocalypse begin, which would point to something in the air.
No zombie movies??!! Sorry, I would say that's just a way to get away with stupid plot holes. "He should know that..." "Yeah, they don't have zombie movies, so they don't think..." ....right. A world without zombie movie...what a joke.
What's so hard to swallow about that? Maybe the world of the Walking Dead had a big run of Wendigo or Chubacabra movies instead.
Replies
I'm glad Carl shot Shane, its too bad it was zombie Shane and not "about to murder Rick for Lori" Shane, but oh well, that's still a lot to unpack for a miniature adult.
Comic-esk spoiler
The whole farm scene is getting a little boring, I really want to actually see them going through buildings/towns/cities.. I guess it's just expensive to clear them out for filming so they dragged on the farm shit for entire season.
Overall, awesome.
As for them staying on the farm for the whole season, I'm alright with it for the most part. It would have been nice if there were some other side trips and events that didn't revolve completely around Sofia or Rick/Shane/Lori in the first half of the season (Like going to the bar to retrieve Hershel) but meh. Staying on the farm also works out well development wise for the group as a whole. It was almost like they were back to a society and the walkers weren't nearly important. Now that Dale died and the horde is incoming I'm thinking after that they're going to realize more firmly that there is no going back and they're not going to be able to live like they used to.
Comic Talk:
I stopped watching when Shane shot the fat guy... And I really want to pick this back up.
The question is, am I being a total woofter by not? Or did it get worse like a few of my budskies said?
If you're looking to watch the rest they're doing a marathon of the whole second season starting at episode 3 on Sunday starting at like 11:00 AM.
haha! very true
I'm gonna miss Shane, I was hoping he'd go out more like a hero. like after a fight with Rick, maybe he'd end up proving them all wrong and sacrifice his life to save them vs a bunch of walkers/humans or something like that
Personally I don't get why Shane turned into a zombie. Same with the prisoner guy. My roommate is like "That isn't a big deal. Who cares?" I care. I think that is huge! I feel like if I was in one of the characters in the show... that would be I big "WTF?" moment.
On another note... what the fuck is going on with Carl? His character just doesn't make sense. Like I thought they made it pretty clear that he had learned his lesson about going out. And he is just magically going to slip out when they are essentially in lockdown? Like is his Mom that retarded that she is going to be outsmarted this many times?
Okay I'm done venting.
later in the comic, two characters have a suicide pact with each other, and after they have sex one shoots herself while the other can't bring himmself to do it. the girls father finds them and the girl comes back as a zombie. the father has to do her in, but then strangles the boy to death and waits for him to come back so he can have his "revenge" so to speak.
rick confirms his suspicion that you don't need to be bitten, by returning to shanes grave and taunting him, making enough noise to "disturb" him. shane comes out of the grave and rick shoots him.
after that, all the characters are very conscious that you don't need to be bitten or scratched or ever even come in contact with a zombie to become one. you simply need to die, however being bitten "inflames" the virus and causes you to die much quicker. it becomes a motivating factor for a lot of people to stay alive, and survive. they don't want to become a zombie through an accidental death or anything. it also causes some characters to go completely off the rails and just want to end their lives now since it doesn't matter in the long run anyway (to them).
Shane was right damn it! argh.
On one hand they need to look after him but on the other hes at the age that they need to start trusting him to make his own decisions and they can't strap him in a stroller and wheel him around everywhere. He's at the age where he isn't always going to do what his parents say unless it makes perfect sense. In a way its his own survival instincts kicking in, people are most scared of what they don't know and don't understand and sneaking around being a snoop and testing things out on his own are his way of trying to learn how to deal with that stuff.
He has that attitude of Soon it will be:
"get the hell out of my life!" /door slam
"...oh... but after you drive me and Suzie to town... and don't forget to cut the crust off my sandwich!"
Yeah I'm not mad at the kid, I understand that his character is evolving and that he's making those kind of decisions.
I'm pissed at Rick and Lori for being so high and mighty towards shane in saying that they can protect their son when in reality they don't even know where he is. The farm lockdown bit sticks out in particular because it was a group effort to just stick in one place for safety, as opposed to just a normal day where they could let him wander. This moment was one of the few times that Lori actually had to watch her Son.
After the whole thing with Carl getting shot (cba'd with spoiler tags the episode was ages ago anyway) you'd think they would be fucking nuts with safety in that situation.
But I guess it is a big house and there wasn't any 'immediate' danger so meh... but still, Lori annoys me.
Reanimation
Infection
Robert Kirkman wrote:
"...the rule is: WHATEVER it is that causes the zombies, is something everyone already has. If you stub your toe, get an infection and die ... you turn into a zombie. UNLESS your brain is damaged. If someone shoots you in the head and you die ...you're dead. A zombie bite kills you because of infection, or blood loss ... not because of the zombie "virus.""
The most common way that people become a zombie is after dying from infection caused by a zombie bite. Symptoms of a zombie bite include:
- Death (resulting in reanimation)
- Lethal Fever
- Chills
- Hallucinations
- Vomiting
- Pale skin
- Delirium
- Sensitive bones
While there is no zombie "virus," zombie bites cause lethal infections. Thus, a person can become a zombie from dying of any cause other than brain damage.According to (a character), a corpse can reanimate between three minutes and eight hours after death.
Interestingly, during the second season of the TV series, as the group is stopped on the highway there are multiple dead and decayed bodies that have not reanimated. Kirkman states the reason for this is because the passengers all suffered brain trauma from the car crashes.
[ame="
I think they are eventually going to suggest that the government was testing a virus, or something got into water supplies. It would have to be something that affected everyone, everywhere though (or at least in the U.S.).
That being said, I'm beginning to wonder if the virus affects your personality too. Like Shane, who already seemed like he me be a bit of an ass (when the show started), then became crazy (irrational, and slapping himself in the head). But obviously, that personality changes can just be caused by the changing dynamics in life.
That's explained more later on. In the comic book's timeline, it's explained really soon. I'm not sure how they'll do it in the show.
That's the one downside, if you don't know the comics; there are actions they explain the comics, that don't play well to a TV audience (who want explanations sooner). For instance, I've seen several people here, and IRL, that think that they are killing too many people, especially too many antagonists. What they don't realize is, more people will get introduced later. They aren't the only non-walkers out there.
When Kirkman was in our studio yesterday he mentioned that it be explained in a cool way in the next episode. Can't wait til Sunday!
I think the whole "Rick you can't always be running off, Carl needs you" is going to come back into play soon. They've made it a issue in the past but I think its going to be pretty hardcore now that Shane is gone Rick doesn't really have anyone he trusts to keep things safe.
bear in mind as well that the walkers decompose at "roughly" the same rate as a normal dead person. so at some point they will undoubtedly stop being able to move at all. in fact in the comic there is at least one zombie who tries to grab someone but isn't strong enough to even keep their grip.
i think kirkman said that any time there is a corpse pile, it's likely to have been made prior to a national outbreak (ie. a small outbreak that's been "controlled") and/or many people involved in car crashes who've suffered brain trauma (and therefor cannot become zombies).
in fact he pretty explicitly states that anything but brain trauma will result in zombification.
Comic spoiler:
Also aren't walkers able to forestall decomposition if they are in mostly working order and eating regularly? I can't remember where in the comic they covered that but I thought it was covered... Or do they just pack in stuff until they burst? I don't remember that ever being covered.
Ya, I was gonna say, it doesnt have to make sense right now guys. That's the point. The character just noticed something strange. They haven't even had time to talk about it. So I'm sure there will be more on it next episode.
Kirkman talking about last weeks episode.
http://comics.ign.com/articles/122/1220591p1.html?utm_campaign=twposts&utm_source=twitter
Holy crap! I totally forgot the dude whispered something to Rick at the end of the first season! Wooot.
And about why we wont see the zombies in large towns:
Notman already posted it, but that is what it is...
Next episode is going to be awesome. I hope they get off the farm.
Well, the guy in the lab did whisper something to Rick before blowing up. Also, there was the two zombie cops they found, which didn't have any bite marks.
They do assume, like most people when talking about zombies. Actually, why don't they just call a shovel a shovel, and call them zombies, why do they have to call them walkers?
"Hey let's hold up in that house... kinda like in Night of the... wait a minute..."
Also, I love how Hershel's character has grown. He was not above looking back at all his convictions and beliefs, and thinking about them in an objective manner now that Zombieland is a whole nother world. Without this adjustment, his character was quite stale. Now he's all "How could I be so stupid?" while trying to rectify his relationship w his daughters and Glenn.
What's so hard to swallow about that? Maybe the world of the Walking Dead had a big run of Wendigo or Chubacabra movies instead.