raul: The big thing in making differences between materials using specular, is via specular power. As mentioned previously though, you do still need to seperate the different materials more though in just the regular specular first.
@electro - i will keep this in mind for the next lp pieces. Right now is kinda hard for me to go back and change certain pieces. Thanx for the info!
Ok, so i started using the 3point shader. And im pretty happy with the results. Tho, im having trouble setting up the cube map. I really wanted to use that on the metal parts of the chair.
By the way, is there a way to turn on anti aliasing on the max viewport?
Nice, some 3 pointshader fun! Wha do ya mean it's hard to change certain pieces? Did you collapse your psd or something? This is one great piece if you would make those adjustments! Remember, good metal diffuse+ good metal specular= good metal texture. Not cubemap and shader settings. For the anti aliasing, go the xoliul's website and grab that 'grap viewport' script. It allows you to take humongous pictures. It helps!
-Phil
What i meant by breaking my stuff in pieces is that Im afraid it may not work on my geometry as some pieces are wholes. Id have to get a picture later to explain. Either way, this new shader thing has rocked my life!
By the way, there is something i wanted to point out. On my preview for the vespa's low poly. I couldnt get the shader to hide the alphas. They still show! What's weird is that i cleaned them up, i hooked them back up on the channels. And they seem like they are working but there is still there! No masking is happening. After i turned on "use alpha test" that worked, but it was using the alphas generated with the normal map. Again, i replaced those alphas with the new clean ones and still nothing happened. Any ideas of what is going on?
Since you just started the texture, I'm assuming that you have just layed down basic colors on most of the areas correct? Imo, this thing should have a bit of rust. I rode one down in Florida, we rented it and it was just a bit rusty in some places and was really dirty. I'm really lookin forward to see how this will turn out though!
@ an aggressive napkin - thanx for the tips! I havent started texturing yet. That is just plain solid colors, with normal and the 3point shader. I just got excited to see how it looked so i decided to post.
@ ZacD - Spec on the alpha? that sounds interesting! What does that exactly mean?
@ ZacD - Spec on the alpha? that sounds interesting! What does that exactly mean?
I think he was referring to the windshield on the Vespa.
Right now you can see the lower edge of the plane which contains the alpha info for the windshield because of the specular highlight, even though it's supposed to be transparent.
Just a quick update. 1st pass with the vespa and another pass at the barber's chair. I guess now is the time to start thinking of the "story" of the object. Any tips?
It's a great design but I really think you should have omitted the rust or at the very least reduced the saturation and placed it mainly in the cavities, the locations its placed in seem largely random at the moment.
Hey guys! thanx for the comments! It was not really my intention to grungify this thing to the max. I dont think i really understand how to bring up the values and details. So i gave it another try.
I spent so much time on this last nigth and got nowhere.
-hmmm.... still seems like the rust is a little extreme. I don't know. Just not looking like the reference.
-the two barrels are way to orangy looking as well the handle bottom part is looking to gold rather than the natural silver color that it is.
-You have those dividers on the barrels that should be the same color and rust as the barrels. The reference shows they flow more with each other in rust and color. As well the designs on the barrels.. why do they get to stay all pretty and clean?
-Did you paint over the gun in photoshop to the colors you wanted to see it in? cause some show gold pieces and then the other ones show silver pieces?....
-I think also the AO is to extreme around the carvings in the wood. The reference shows that its all one piece of wood that was carved into. Yours is looking like someone glued separate pieces to it. I guess some parts look that deep and intense...
-Also, are you looking at reference of worn wet wood? Not sure if im digging those weird splotches. the top one looks like you have coffee mug stain along the side of it.
Great model! but yeah, texture work on this bad boy does need work IMO.
The rust is still way too extreme and now it just looks like a wash over the barrels. Rust does not need to be this obvious reddish hue, it starts off very subtle desaturated brown tones and mainly begins to affect the specularity of the metal more than anything. It starts off looking really similar to dirt.
Pretty much the only things that end up with extreme red/orange rust are objects that have been exposed to extreme moisture (sunken underwater, piping carrying water, or just objects left outside in areas that see a lot of rainfall.) A gun is likely going to be stored inside something where it will be more or less protected from the elements.
If you look at your original image reference the rust is very dull and brown, not very red. It's like that for most rusted guns.
Pulled these off of google images, just search for rusty gun you'll find tons of stuff;
Left is rusted, restored version on the right. The rust is very subtle and mainly just reduces the specularity and makes the rusted areas look very dull and slightly browned.
Here's an example on a lighter colored metal of how rust tends to form mainly in cavities
Again, a slightly desaturated brown color.
jonathan - thanx you for pointing those things out! this time i was extra careful at spoting this things.
Bibendum- thank you for taking the time to explain how rust works. It really helped me understand wtf i was doing wrong.
So here it is....again feed back is welcome. This preview has normals and spec. But havent really gone into the spec that much. Suggestions on taht would be awesome!
Bibendum - haha! all good! thanx again for taking the time to help. I see what you mean tho, i will go home and work on it and some more using this as a guide.
While im at it, something i dont understand about specular is. Should i make it black and white or should i try to use color...and if u use colors how do you what color to put in it?
The rust itself has very little specularity so I'd just make it as dull as possible, maybe yellowish orange. You'll have to experiment a bit with it, I struggle a lot with spec maps so I don't have much good advice for that Hopefully someone else here can chime in with a better opinion.
@Eric - sighs...cuz im lazy to take them out! lol. Sometimes i take them out, sometimesi dont. For the most part if im done with a texture that is the last thing i do.
HEY! LOOKING WAY BETTER! I'm really diggin the silver metal.. the gold still might be some what off on the spec... why not make all the metal silver like the reference?
The wood is looking much better! maybe a little more darker?(thats just me thinking any wood gun wold look cooler as a darker tone) I see you toned down the darkness around the carvings.. much better looking! they don't look like they are embedded like they used to look.
I really want to take a minute to thank you guys for all your suggestions and help. I learned a lot this past 2 weeks on texturing and normal maps in general. In that note, the most important thing i learned was that max's normal maps dont render well in other programs...sighs...so i will be rebaking these at some point using xnormal or softimage. I know there is a thread about this somewhere so i may just go find it later and start reading.
BTW, extra thanx go to Brett Briley ( Spark ). For being an awesome mentor, critique and above it all for kicking my ass! Thanx buddy!
I dont think i will do any more edits to these props. Maybe just move on.
Hey Raul, your models are coming along nicely. I see a few comments about the red/pink ray misses. I started making a 'mask' layer to multiply over the all the flats. Makes it pleasant to look at and fun to texture with, kinda like a stencil!
-Phil
I decided to continue banging on these textures. Started out by doing a litle research on how each map works out with each other. As well as finding a couple of texturing tutotirials. And kinda figure out wtf ive been doign wrong. Well, among other things i realized that my normals looked like shit. So i went back into xsi and used it for rendering my normal maps. I was very pleased with the result. And so that added for me to continue working on the textures for my gun.
Wuzzup! One thing thing interesting about the design of this gun. All those flourishes. Then they are the same design shared between two materials. That is only most obvious. In my opinion, the metal flourishes should be the first thing to notice. Keep the contrast you have in the metal and tone the contrast of the wood flourishes. Just push them back to the soft wood that are suppose to be. Less shadows outlining the wood flourishes. I think a more proper place for those shadow could be around the base of the metal pieces. Would help it to ground and attach them to the wood.
The Spec map seems to suffer. In previous attempts it looks like you're using color in the spec. Make a successful black and white on first. Also, for metal variations, try using the same specular value. For the grime and rust on the metal will have a darker value. Anyway, i'll stop rambling. Hope this helps!
-Phil
bbob & jonathanF- thanx!
phil - thanx for the tips man. and also thax for showing me those cool tricks about a week ago or so.
Anyway, i meant to post this a week ago, but been busy testing and doing things. Sparks suggested i make sure these props shine. At first i was like, oh wtf! lol. But i have put a lot of work to just let them die. I do apologize to bore every one with the same shit. Yes, i know its been like 3 or 4 months now. But i promise im gonna get these done! lol.
Here is a new optimized mesh for the vespa. please excuse the crap bake with the extra crappy alphas.
and the textures for the gun.
now that im looking at this a week later, it feels like the carvings of the wood are still floating..(grumble grumble!!)
continuing fixing the vespa lp. Added a few more tris to get it to look more smooth. And i just realized that i forgot to take off the alphas. So i aplogize for that.
Remember Raul, that an inner silhouette doesn't need the same number of polys as an outter silhouette, such as the way you have in the tires. Maybe reduce by one for each 3 split, and use that for the outside of the tire.
those baked normals have a LOT of smooth issues, also lowpoly shots are blurry and have some artefacts. where do you bake your normals, raul?
textures and high poly models are really great, anyway.
aNarchy - Those are ambient occlusion. I render one complete map from max. And one ambient occlusion map from softimage. And put them together.
Spark - thanx for the feedback. After what we went over earlier i see most of the errors and stuff that conte has just pointed out. Im kinda embarrassed really... -Conte - My normals have errors because of the way that i modeled my high polies. That is true with all my previous models. I burn in shame. But at least ive learned. Funny tho, the one day you ask is the day i find out why i have so many weird breaks on the normals.
By the way, to bake, i was using max before but then i wanted to render my stuff in softimage and at the same time i wanted to learn how to use xnormal. So ive been baking my stuff with xsi and xnormal. Render as in "beauty shots" for my folio.
Well, i worked a little bit on the chair....migth as well just post this. Also, thanx to all who have helped me out. I will be back! with new projects and such. So stay tuned.
Sweet! Raul, why are there seams?? jk. I bet you could remove about 754 unnecessary tris. Other than that, the silhouette has been nailed. This one should be fun to texture, can't wait.
-Phil
Replies
Ok, so i started using the 3point shader. And im pretty happy with the results. Tho, im having trouble setting up the cube map. I really wanted to use that on the metal parts of the chair.
By the way, is there a way to turn on anti aliasing on the max viewport?
-Phil
What i meant by breaking my stuff in pieces is that Im afraid it may not work on my geometry as some pieces are wholes. Id have to get a picture later to explain. Either way, this new shader thing has rocked my life!
@ ZacD - Spec on the alpha? that sounds interesting! What does that exactly mean?
I think he was referring to the windshield on the Vespa.
Right now you can see the lower edge of the plane which contains the alpha info for the windshield because of the specular highlight, even though it's supposed to be transparent.
ref
rendered in marmoset
I spent so much time on this last nigth and got nowhere.
-the two barrels are way to orangy looking as well the handle bottom part is looking to gold rather than the natural silver color that it is.
-You have those dividers on the barrels that should be the same color and rust as the barrels. The reference shows they flow more with each other in rust and color. As well the designs on the barrels.. why do they get to stay all pretty and clean?
-Did you paint over the gun in photoshop to the colors you wanted to see it in? cause some show gold pieces and then the other ones show silver pieces?....
-I think also the AO is to extreme around the carvings in the wood. The reference shows that its all one piece of wood that was carved into. Yours is looking like someone glued separate pieces to it. I guess some parts look that deep and intense...
-Also, are you looking at reference of worn wet wood? Not sure if im digging those weird splotches. the top one looks like you have coffee mug stain along the side of it.
Great model! but yeah, texture work on this bad boy does need work IMO.
famous words from waterboy....
YOU CAN DO IT!!!
Pretty much the only things that end up with extreme red/orange rust are objects that have been exposed to extreme moisture (sunken underwater, piping carrying water, or just objects left outside in areas that see a lot of rainfall.) A gun is likely going to be stored inside something where it will be more or less protected from the elements.
If you look at your original image reference the rust is very dull and brown, not very red. It's like that for most rusted guns.
Pulled these off of google images, just search for rusty gun you'll find tons of stuff;
Left is rusted, restored version on the right. The rust is very subtle and mainly just reduces the specularity and makes the rusted areas look very dull and slightly browned.
Here's an example on a lighter colored metal of how rust tends to form mainly in cavities
Again, a slightly desaturated brown color.
Bibendum- thank you for taking the time to explain how rust works. It really helped me understand wtf i was doing wrong.
So here it is....again feed back is welcome. This preview has normals and spec. But havent really gone into the spec that much. Suggestions on taht would be awesome!
I did a quick paintover of how I would have done the coverage, hope you don't mind.
Edit: Sorry for the horrible image quality, I made it a comparison shot but only after I jpeg'd it and closed photoshop
While im at it, something i dont understand about specular is. Should i make it black and white or should i try to use color...and if u use colors how do you what color to put in it?
The rust itself has very little specularity so I'd just make it as dull as possible, maybe yellowish orange. You'll have to experiment a bit with it, I struggle a lot with spec maps so I don't have much good advice for that
@Eric - sighs...cuz im lazy to take them out! lol. Sometimes i take them out, sometimesi dont. For the most part if im done with a texture that is the last thing i do.
So..what do you guys thnk of this?
The wood is looking much better! maybe a little more darker?(thats just me thinking any wood gun wold look cooler as a darker tone) I see you toned down the darkness around the carvings.. much better looking! they don't look like they are embedded like they used to look.
Maybe just make all the metal parts silver?
I think it would look better as the gold is getting pretty lost alongside wood.
BTW, extra thanx go to Brett Briley ( Spark ). For being an awesome mentor, critique and above it all for kicking my ass! Thanx buddy!
I dont think i will do any more edits to these props. Maybe just move on.
So here is what i got so far.
-Phil
So here it is! Any feedback is welcome!
The Spec map seems to suffer. In previous attempts it looks like you're using color in the spec. Make a successful black and white on first. Also, for metal variations, try using the same specular value. For the grime and rust on the metal will have a darker value. Anyway, i'll stop rambling. Hope this helps!
-Phil
phil - thanx for the tips man. and also thax for showing me those cool tricks about a week ago or so.
Anyway, i meant to post this a week ago, but been busy testing and doing things. Sparks suggested i make sure these props shine. At first i was like, oh wtf! lol. But i have put a lot of work to just let them die. I do apologize to bore every one with the same shit. Yes, i know its been like 3 or 4 months now. But i promise im gonna get these done! lol.
Here is a new optimized mesh for the vespa. please excuse the crap bake with the extra crappy alphas.
and the textures for the gun.
now that im looking at this a week later, it feels like the carvings of the wood are still floating..(grumble grumble!!)
how do you get one of those and what does it add?
Spark
textures and high poly models are really great, anyway.
Spark - thanx for the feedback. After what we went over earlier i see most of the errors and stuff that conte has just pointed out. Im kinda embarrassed really... -Conte - My normals have errors because of the way that i modeled my high polies. That is true with all my previous models. I burn in shame. But at least ive learned. Funny tho, the one day you ask is the day i find out why i have so many weird breaks on the normals.
By the way, to bake, i was using max before but then i wanted to render my stuff in softimage and at the same time i wanted to learn how to use xnormal. So ive been baking my stuff with xsi and xnormal. Render as in "beauty shots" for my folio.
Well, i worked a little bit on the chair....migth as well just post this. Also, thanx to all who have helped me out.
In the wood board of your arm rest, it looks like there is a bit of texture bleed from baking out the normal, ao etc. (if that makes sense)
So here is the wip. Also, i could use some pointers on how to get those shapes right.
Duxun - thanx!
Here is the low poly, crap test bake ( meaning the mesh has quick uvs to test the normal...so dont ask why there are seams :P)
-Phil