Ged: Thanks man, I'm going to look into improving the fingers this weekend.
cody, gaganjain, binopittan, gavku, Firebert, lupi, don, rv_el, r4ptur3, kite, Hntrluc, Kamui, 8ftSpider, wassum, coldkodiak, culpin, kongni, DDDDDDDDUUUUUUUURRRRRR:
Thanks for the comments, I really appreciate them. I think I'm going to go with D..maybe with a little bit of C thrown in. I'm really digging the bronze work, I'm just not settled on the cloth and underarmor / spandeky materials. Usually, I'd choose red..but with the need to show gang colours I may have to go green.
JFletcher: Wow man, thanks for the paintover. I might give that a shot. As you mentioned, it may lean too far into those....ugh..."other guys."
belltann: Hehe, still so much to do :P
bilbana: Thanks.
Marshal Banana: Thanks, I'm still undecided what I'm going to do with that hand...but the plan I have in mind will cause me to fix up that area. It definitely won't be just a naked hand...that's there as more of a guide for now.
catstyle: Thanks. Yeah, I think I may have skewer them some when I moved the subtool around. I might look into that, but it'll definitely look better in the final.
Pixelmasher: Yeah, I'm still not sure on the green glow. The bronze might throw it off a bit. I'm still not sure, exactly, what the magical item this guy possesses is going to be. Giant hand of cleric stuff or magical chain gun that banishes demons. I think if I go with the hand, i'd almost have to make it glowy...otherwise it just looks like a big hand, right? We'll see, it might look better at game rez. As for the legs, thanks, i might look into that
Scudz: Thanks dude. Heh, yeah. Well, I guess his form of hunting would be to remain stationary and let prey come to him :P Basically, he's decked out to kill demons. More of a tank rather than a hunter, I guess.
Alright, so, a little update. Work has been messing with my system a little lately so it's been hard to find time. I did whip up some more props for his belts. A revolver and a big sword. Basically, his close range weapons if he ever runs out of big gun ammo. If this were for a game, I'd have it all modeled out, but because I would rather put as much of my 10k into the character itself and the big gun, I cheaped out a little on these and only modeled what could be seen I still might scale that pistol up...I don't think it looks obnoxious enough.
Things to do still: Tweak big hand fingers, decide on magical item, finish right hand and make chain gun. For the chain gun, assuming this becomes the magical weapon, I'm thinking of going over the top with i, decorating it with holy symbols and the like to really push his "clericness"...I'm afraid of being called on mixing classes (either he's a church themed fighter or a tank cleric :P ) So i was thinking this chain gun, wielded in one hand, could fire "banishing bullets" that send demons to a different dimension..or something nerdy like that...or are just blessed by Greentooth and cause more killing damage when they hit the demon.
I think the gun would work better if it was worked into the side of the character, having it in front in the crotch area feels weird and would be a wasted detail in a 3rd person camera view like I imagine this guy in a real game.
Awesome character! And I love pretty much everything about it so far...I just have one small reservation. The knife at the back seems a little out of place and feels slapped on for the sake of having another weapon. The arm and gun are more than enough IMO. Might be better a little smaller and better placed or just leave it out. Otherwise its still fecking awesome!
Mayby the Wepaon could just be that freaking mauler tank of a arm he has, that could be a fall back plan if things go sour with the class's
hell though its my funeral I think the minigun would be overkill, but hay I say theres never enough overkill in this world so strap a nuke to his back!
Wicked looking details. I'm also not sure about having the pistol in the front like that. One other thing... the hip joint looks linear now... as in it can only rotate on one axis. How does he stand in a more wide stance or twist his legs with that type of construction? I tend to be very picky about mechanical parts on characters. Nothing offends my eyes more then warping bending metal.
Regards
Skiffy the junkyard monster stares in amazement at the legs....and wonders... how do they work?
looking through again and i gotta agree about not doing the mini-gun, we all know it'll be the coolest gun this side of GA, but from a practicality point, how would he be able to grab his revolver or sword since if he's gotta a minigun in one hand and fingers that'd crush a rhino on the other? i say save the poly's you'd need for that and spread 'em around to really get the most out of the rest of him.
as for the revolver size, something in-between the Big Baby from Hellboy 2 and his regular gun would probably work
Don, Skiffy: That's a great point and if this were designed for a 3rd person view, I'd totally agree. considering though that what really gets judged is a still image...most likely of the guy at 3/4..it seems more interesting to me to have it in the front As for the leg..yeah, it'd probably look weird moving...either with clipping in the front or limited hip rotation.
Stinger: Thanks for the feedback!
JFletcher: Awesome man. You've been very insightful with this guy from the beginning, I really appreciate your feedback. I'l take another pass on the sword / mega knife and see if I can tie it in a bit better.
notebookguy: You bet your ass I did, sweetheart
Slingshot: Thanks!
Lazerus: Hehe. Well, for this guy I almost think overkill is the running theme If only there were more tris in the budget, a giant nuke might be cool As it is, I think I'm scrapping the grenades I had planned for him as they will be a resource hog and look VERY tacked on.
Chai: hahahaha.
Scudz: Bigger gun, definitely..probably wait till the end though As for the chaingun..I've whipped something up, if popular opinion says to not go with it..I'll either rethink it or scrap the idea!
Alright. Another little update. Tweaked the fingers a bit, some general tweaks (all over and restarting the hood..) Also, started on the chaingun. It's been really difficult to think of a one handed chaingun that fits the look and feel of the rest of the character. I found myself looking at, and getting stuck on, a lot of helicopter sort of weapons that, after many different itterations was just looking odd next to a guy decked out in skull armor with a hand of doom. Going this way, even though it is a bit unorthodox, I think it fits better with the character..
Some excellent work here, but i'd seriously consider redoing the head of this guy. It's far too generic considering how unique the rest of this guy is, almost like this guy's acting in a jim henson movie but they haven't put his mask on yet.
The design also seems to be competing with itself. Some parts of him are very ornate and techy, whereas others are decrepid and necromancer like. Again the generic head further muddies the overall design.
My suggestion to really make this guy sing is to completely overhaul his head to either be very beastly with lots of teeth and stuff and strange proportions (maybe a huge lower jaw), or to give him a high tech helmet that has a really cool sniper scope on it, and definitely ditch most of the hair. This will sell the idea of "hunter" or push the decrepid feel that the skulls brought to this guy.
dude- this is looking better and better each day- the details are beautiful-
I`m running into a lot of issues like this my self, but I hope that round part on his hip doesn't look off when deformed for animation / posing. it might be worth figuring out how that can be a separate piece that hangs from the waste or something.
that gun is probably my favorite in the competition. It`d be nice to see some other angles of it-
also I hate to say it but I agree with crazy fingers. The head looks great by itself and has tons of character, but it just doesn't fit with the rest.
its your call, but it might be worth exploring some other options.
chaingun kicks ass, but it feels out of place because of the one handed thing. He'd have to use it like a pistol or be able to interact with his other hand. go go gadget hood! I kind of agree with the head redo thing, or plus it.
Looks kickass all around It's gonna be a monster job to texture this
I love the look of the chaingun but if that piece on top is supposed to be the grip? It doesn't look like it would work. The weight of the gun would make him be constantly be holding down the trigger. Also the handle looks like it wouldn't support the weight.
My suggestion for how he should hold it is like this. I think it should be like a Shield. Strapped to his arm in a few spots and with a grip and trigger that aren't holding the weight of the gun. This way it seems plausible to hold it and control the aim and fire.
kite: Cheers buddy, I might try out some other things just yet.
crazyfingers: Thanks for the feedback man. Though there's no way I'm going to turn the guy's head into something non humanish, I've toyed with adding a techy demon vision eyepatch (which was kind of sort of in the original design) I'm not entirely sold on it, as you pointed out, I sort of feel like I'm just adding something else to compete for attention. We shall see As for having a few different styles going on, I guess that's my take on post apoc, futuristic fantasy haha. Basically, I don't want his gear to be perfect...I'd like it to seem like he's gone to battle many times and DW4 is his final one.
EricV: Cheers.
Jox: Thanks dude
gaganjain: Thanks, updated the hand.
konstruct: Thanks man. Your entry is looking sick! It's a good point, I think I'm going to cut it around the joint and have it sort of rotating around that...Sort of a flaw in the design as there will definitely be some limitations there but I think it will hold up in the final pose. As for the head, I've been toying with the original idea of him having a techy eye patch...let me know what you think on that one.
r4ptur3: Thanks man!
Bummer6: Thanks.
Kessler:
Marnik: Thanks for the feedback, glad you're digging him!
Mongrelman: Thanks!
Ravenslayer: Cheers.
Frump: You say that as if stopping the shooting was an option...theres lots of demons out there!
Just a small update. A few tweaks here and there. Mostly worked on the right hand (kind of normal, didn't want to go too crazy with it) and experimenting with giving him a demon vision eye patch...This was in the original plan but I scrapped the idea because I thought it'd be too much..but with recent comments to revise the head, I wanted to explore this possibility again. I still may do more with the head..but I think it is almost time to start the low poly model and textures as that is going to be a big job.
For the eye patch goggle..I was thinking that maybe not all demons are obvious. This allows him to have "true sight" in case demons change form..
cool gun sir, does well to keep with the design of the res'o'him. the handle concerns have been raised alread, so no further comment on that, but something about the fingers on his left hand bugs me i feel like a simple hand basket ( like on a sword) would serve it well to conceal where they connect to the hand structure.
Right now the over the top of the head strap isn't really functional. BUT i think it looks better than if it was actually functional. It would be cool aswell if that eye piece rotated. So he could have 3 different lenses with 3 different viewing effects.
yes yes, very cool- I really like the new head- I think it fits a lot better. the 3- orb visor thing is really interesting. Also- this might sound really cheesy, but hes kind of got this gunslinger cowboy vibe. It might be worth your while to look into some head gear of the era. not necessarily a cowboy hat- but something to give him that last bit of character-
maybe a facial expression is all he needs- he just seems a bit robotic- I dunno, rambling now- too much coffee WHRRRRRR.
First of all awesome work so far. You have some really great sculpts in this piece - the detailing is off the hook.
I hope you don't mind, I did a quick paintover of some of the things that I think could be edited proportionately for this guy to give him a greater sense of power. These are just suggestions so please feel free to discard them.
-bigger shoulder armor
-smaller cannisters
-bigger human forearm and hand
-edited placement/size of fingers on gauntlet
-tapered body down so it is more of a V shaped torso
-longer, slightly larger, straighter legs.
Again I only wanted to post this because I think you have a really strong piece, and these are my thoughts on how it could become even better.
woogity: Thanks for the feedback, man
DUUURRRR: Thanks dude, I might try that with his eyepatch. I tried making the base of it more like a disc, so it could just rotate in that...but it ended up looking a little weird. Might give it another shot.
Don: Aw shucks, you know I loves me some b1ll.
RITORIAN: Thanks!
konstruct: thanks man! I've touched up the head even more. I do think that he does have some kind of a gunslinger vide to him...though not sure what I could do head gear wise :P I was thinking og giving him a cigar (Clint Eastwood style)...but that might be a little too over done.
Nynedown: Cheers dude
foreverrendering: Man, you are awesome. Really liking some of the changes in the paint over and I think I will explore them once I get things baked down and can manage that type of change a bit more easily. Shoulder pad being bigger and higher coupled with the grenades being smaller adds a nice contrast. As well as changing the legs a little in size and his other, normal, hand as well. Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback.
Alright, just refining some things a little more. Mostly focusing on the head. I think this is almost the end of the line for the high poly. I'd like to get into the low and start working my way through that as soon as I can
that's looking awesome gav! one little thing that you might want to take a look at is the heels of his boots, they seem to be splaying out a little too much to the sides, though might just be the screenshot angle. Also think the minigun barrels might suit being chubbied up a bit. Great face tweaks!
ive been lurking around this thread from the beginning. i like it alot, its a huge improvement from your past years entries. ill agree with the comment that its busy but alot might get washed out in the normal bake so its hard to say how much you should clean. either way looks great, keep up the good work.
Hey Gavimage, great model. I was just wondering how many tri's it actually comes up to and how much of it is sculpting and how much of it is subdivision modelling (im trying to work out how you get so much immense detail :P).
~ Incredible sculpt, Gav. The details are insane, i'm just hoping you work with them on the diffuse and not Against them. All that amazing work could easily turn into Noise with the wrong balance but with your abilities should have no problem getting that right.
notebookguy, JOSH, Jeff MD, conte, SHEPEIRO, chai, feralgrin, dreamer, DON, woods, kzo, 55joe: Thanks guys! I really appreciate your comments. Glad you're liking him!
kite: Cheers dude. Yeah, those ankles got skewed when i was dicking around with the subtool..the final one will be straight and not wonky like in that image. Good eye
nights: Kind of a dumb, generic answer. It's a solid mix of both. For all the plates, i basically modeled them out in Max because i wanted a nice hard edge (and find that difficult to achieve in ZB), slap them into ZB and sculpt away. All the bolts and stuff are modeled out, for the most part...most of the straps and such are just extracts..and my base mesh is pretty basic. I'm planning on posting up my workflow after the project
Alright, HALF update..sort of...I find myself hitting a wall. Starting to create this low poly version for my guy and am becoming afraid that, because of needing to devote such a budget to his props (grenades, pouches, loincloths, sword, pistol) I'm really killing how smooth my actual character is going to be. What I'm weighing up right now, and this would not be an easy choice, is to not include the chain gun and give it's budget back to the character so i can improve his quality. It would suck, as I think the gun adds a lot to him, but I'm wondering how much I'm going to have to sacrifice to make it all fit into the budget. At the moment, including the gun but not the things not pictured (pistol, pouches, loincloths and fingers) he's already over budget at 10,800 tris. The chain gun is about 2k (and that's with chopping out a barrel..it could still be optimized, for sure..) and the character as it is is about 8 1/2.
Thoughts on this? It seems to be eating up a lot more tris than I was expecting as, to me, I was being pretty skimpy with defining the shapes on the character.
Edit> Chopping down the eyepatch saves a little....I could try capping off the cylinder sort of parts to not give them that indent as well..but i think that might make for a shitty normal map. Still got to cut that big strap into the body..
Replies
I personally like the image with the copper treatment
cody, gaganjain, binopittan, gavku, Firebert, lupi, don, rv_el, r4ptur3, kite, Hntrluc, Kamui, 8ftSpider, wassum, coldkodiak, culpin, kongni, DDDDDDDDUUUUUUUURRRRRR:
Thanks for the comments, I really appreciate them. I think I'm going to go with D..maybe with a little bit of C thrown in. I'm really digging the bronze work, I'm just not settled on the cloth and underarmor / spandeky materials. Usually, I'd choose red..but with the need to show gang colours I may have to go green.
JFletcher: Wow man, thanks for the paintover. I might give that a shot. As you mentioned, it may lean too far into those....ugh..."other guys."
belltann: Hehe, still so much to do :P
bilbana: Thanks.
Marshal Banana: Thanks, I'm still undecided what I'm going to do with that hand...but the plan I have in mind will cause me to fix up that area. It definitely won't be just a naked hand...that's there as more of a guide for now.
catstyle: Thanks. Yeah, I think I may have skewer them some when I moved the subtool around. I might look into that, but it'll definitely look better in the final.
Pixelmasher: Yeah, I'm still not sure on the green glow. The bronze might throw it off a bit. I'm still not sure, exactly, what the magical item this guy possesses is going to be. Giant hand of cleric stuff or magical chain gun that banishes demons. I think if I go with the hand, i'd almost have to make it glowy...otherwise it just looks like a big hand, right? We'll see, it might look better at game rez. As for the legs, thanks, i might look into that
Scudz: Thanks dude. Heh, yeah. Well, I guess his form of hunting would be to remain stationary and let prey come to him :P Basically, he's decked out to kill demons. More of a tank rather than a hunter, I guess.
Alright, so, a little update. Work has been messing with my system a little lately so it's been hard to find time. I did whip up some more props for his belts. A revolver and a big sword. Basically, his close range weapons if he ever runs out of big gun ammo. If this were for a game, I'd have it all modeled out, but because I would rather put as much of my 10k into the character itself and the big gun, I cheaped out a little on these and only modeled what could be seen
Things to do still: Tweak big hand fingers, decide on magical item, finish right hand and make chain gun. For the chain gun, assuming this becomes the magical weapon, I'm thinking of going over the top with i, decorating it with holy symbols and the like to really push his "clericness"...I'm afraid of being called on mixing classes (either he's a church themed fighter or a tank cleric :P ) So i was thinking this chain gun, wielded in one hand, could fire "banishing bullets" that send demons to a different dimension..or something nerdy like that...or are just blessed by Greentooth and cause more killing damage when they hit the demon.
Small update:
time to give that hood a little love :P
i'd hate to be on the receiving end of that bowie knife!
i see a couple rivets so im guessing thats the holder, maybe spice it up a bit to match the armor? something like http://www.armorvenue.com/armorvenueimage.php?f=generals-sword&s=275 maybe.
really cool though, the revolver looks fantastic!
hell though its my funeral I think the minigun would be overkill, but hay I say theres never enough overkill in this world so strap a nuke to his back!
looking forward to more cb
Regards
Skiffy the junkyard monster stares in amazement at the legs....and wonders... how do they work?
as for the revolver size, something in-between the Big Baby from Hellboy 2 and his regular gun would probably work
Don, Skiffy: That's a great point and if this were designed for a 3rd person view, I'd totally agree. considering though that what really gets judged is a still image...most likely of the guy at 3/4..it seems more interesting to me to have it in the front
Stinger: Thanks for the feedback!
JFletcher: Awesome man. You've been very insightful with this guy from the beginning, I really appreciate your feedback. I'l take another pass on the sword / mega knife and see if I can tie it in a bit better.
notebookguy: You bet your ass I did, sweetheart
Slingshot: Thanks!
Lazerus: Hehe. Well, for this guy I almost think overkill is the running theme
Chai: hahahaha.
Scudz: Bigger gun, definitely..probably wait till the end though
Alright. Another little update. Tweaked the fingers a bit, some general tweaks (all over and restarting the hood..) Also, started on the chaingun. It's been really difficult to think of a one handed chaingun that fits the look and feel of the rest of the character. I found myself looking at, and getting stuck on, a lot of helicopter sort of weapons that, after many different itterations was just looking odd next to a guy decked out in skull armor with a hand of doom. Going this way, even though it is a bit unorthodox, I think it fits better with the character..
Let me know what you think!
Gav
The design also seems to be competing with itself. Some parts of him are very ornate and techy, whereas others are decrepid and necromancer like. Again the generic head further muddies the overall design.
My suggestion to really make this guy sing is to completely overhaul his head to either be very beastly with lots of teeth and stuff and strange proportions (maybe a huge lower jaw), or to give him a high tech helmet that has a really cool sniper scope on it, and definitely ditch most of the hair. This will sell the idea of "hunter" or push the decrepid feel that the skulls brought to this guy.
XD
chaingun look awesome...That is wicked holding style...
Looking forward for more....
I`m running into a lot of issues like this my self, but I hope that round part on his hip doesn't look off when deformed for animation / posing. it might be worth figuring out how that can be a separate piece that hangs from the waste or something.
that gun is probably my favorite in the competition. It`d be nice to see some other angles of it-
also I hate to say it but I agree with crazy fingers. The head looks great by itself and has tons of character, but it just doesn't fit with the rest.
its your call, but it might be worth exploring some other options.
Looks kickass all around
The only thing that's bugging me is that the feet seem incredibly small for his stature =[
My suggestion for how he should hold it is like this. I think it should be like a Shield. Strapped to his arm in a few spots and with a grip and trigger that aren't holding the weight of the gun. This way it seems plausible to hold it and control the aim and fire.
Looking forward to more updates.
crazyfingers: Thanks for the feedback man. Though there's no way I'm going to turn the guy's head into something non humanish, I've toyed with adding a techy demon vision eyepatch (which was kind of sort of in the original design) I'm not entirely sold on it, as you pointed out, I sort of feel like I'm just adding something else to compete for attention. We shall see
EricV: Cheers.
Jox: Thanks dude
gaganjain: Thanks, updated the hand.
konstruct: Thanks man. Your entry is looking sick! It's a good point, I think I'm going to cut it around the joint and have it sort of rotating around that...Sort of a flaw in the design as there will definitely be some limitations there but I think it will hold up in the final pose. As for the head, I've been toying with the original idea of him having a techy eye patch...let me know what you think on that one.
r4ptur3: Thanks man!
Bummer6: Thanks.
Kessler:
Marnik: Thanks for the feedback, glad you're digging him!
Mongrelman: Thanks!
Ravenslayer: Cheers.
Frump: You say that as if stopping the shooting was an option...theres lots of demons out there!
Just a small update. A few tweaks here and there. Mostly worked on the right hand (kind of normal, didn't want to go too crazy with it) and experimenting with giving him a demon vision eye patch...This was in the original plan but I scrapped the idea because I thought it'd be too much..but with recent comments to revise the head, I wanted to explore this possibility again. I still may do more with the head..but I think it is almost time to start the low poly model and textures as that is going to be a big job.
For the eye patch goggle..I was thinking that maybe not all demons are obvious. This allows him to have "true sight" in case demons change form..
Let me know what you think!
Gav
-Woog
Right now the over the top of the head strap isn't really functional. BUT i think it looks better than if it was actually functional. It would be cool aswell if that eye piece rotated. So he could have 3 different lenses with 3 different viewing effects.
maybe a facial expression is all he needs- he just seems a bit robotic- I dunno, rambling now- too much coffee WHRRRRRR.
First of all awesome work so far. You have some really great sculpts in this piece - the detailing is off the hook.
I hope you don't mind, I did a quick paintover of some of the things that I think could be edited proportionately for this guy to give him a greater sense of power. These are just suggestions so please feel free to discard them.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/jaromey/paintovergavin.gif
-bigger shoulder armor
-smaller cannisters
-bigger human forearm and hand
-edited placement/size of fingers on gauntlet
-tapered body down so it is more of a V shaped torso
-longer, slightly larger, straighter legs.
Again I only wanted to post this because I think you have a really strong piece, and these are my thoughts on how it could become even better.
Keep going - btw new head looks great
DUUURRRR: Thanks dude, I might try that with his eyepatch. I tried making the base of it more like a disc, so it could just rotate in that...but it ended up looking a little weird. Might give it another shot.
Don: Aw shucks, you know I loves me some b1ll.
RITORIAN: Thanks!
konstruct: thanks man! I've touched up the head even more. I do think that he does have some kind of a gunslinger vide to him...though not sure what I could do head gear wise :P I was thinking og giving him a cigar (Clint Eastwood style)...but that might be a little too over done.
Nynedown: Cheers dude
foreverrendering: Man, you are awesome. Really liking some of the changes in the paint over and I think I will explore them once I get things baked down and can manage that type of change a bit more easily. Shoulder pad being bigger and higher coupled with the grenades being smaller adds a nice contrast. As well as changing the legs a little in size and his other, normal, hand as well. Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback.
Alright, just refining some things a little more. Mostly focusing on the head. I think this is almost the end of the line for the high poly. I'd like to get into the low and start working my way through that as soon as I can
Thanks.
Gav
a little overdose with it.
That minigun is delicious...
Really inspiring work man.
the chaingun is especially cool... nice shape
great proportions over the whole guy
good job man :thumbup:
kite: Cheers dude. Yeah, those ankles got skewed when i was dicking around with the subtool..the final one will be straight and not wonky like in that image. Good eye
nights: Kind of a dumb, generic answer. It's a solid mix of both. For all the plates, i basically modeled them out in Max because i wanted a nice hard edge (and find that difficult to achieve in ZB), slap them into ZB and sculpt away. All the bolts and stuff are modeled out, for the most part...most of the straps and such are just extracts..and my base mesh is pretty basic. I'm planning on posting up my workflow after the project
Alright, HALF update..sort of...I find myself hitting a wall. Starting to create this low poly version for my guy and am becoming afraid that, because of needing to devote such a budget to his props (grenades, pouches, loincloths, sword, pistol) I'm really killing how smooth my actual character is going to be. What I'm weighing up right now, and this would not be an easy choice, is to not include the chain gun and give it's budget back to the character so i can improve his quality. It would suck, as I think the gun adds a lot to him, but I'm wondering how much I'm going to have to sacrifice to make it all fit into the budget. At the moment, including the gun but not the things not pictured (pistol, pouches, loincloths and fingers) he's already over budget at 10,800 tris. The chain gun is about 2k (and that's with chopping out a barrel..it could still be optimized, for sure..) and the character as it is is about 8 1/2.
Thoughts on this? It seems to be eating up a lot more tris than I was expecting as, to me, I was being pretty skimpy with defining the shapes on the character.
Edit> Chopping down the eyepatch saves a little....I could try capping off the cylinder sort of parts to not give them that indent as well..but i think that might make for a shitty normal map. Still got to cut that big strap into the body..
Gav