Finished last night. Disappointing ending. I saw one of the CDs mentioned how they didn't want to leave anything "dangling", yet it was a total Inception type ending. Too many question marks left. Their story is most certainly not told yet.
There's also no other premise they could go with for a sequel that would carry anywhere near as much weight as the ones used in this game. The cure/survival of humankind and the connection between these two characters. They've created a situation similar to other games (Uncharted/Halo) where stories not revolving around those characters and themes would just be very B-side.
Haha, I haven't finished it yet and read some of your post before you got in with the spoiler tags. 'I WILL FIND YOU!!!!!' Zod style!!!! Haha, I stopped reading though so didnt spoil too much, I got the art book sitting here and the HD making of ready to watch, but gotta finish the game first. I'm managing about 2 hours a week so is gonna take me a while haha.
I'm curious what about the ending people dislike. The game does leave you wanting more, but the game is completely tied up and has a great resolution that serves the characters well. It's not quite a happy ending, but it isn't a happy game either.
There's also no other premise they could go with for a sequel that would carry anywhere near as much weight as the ones used in this game. The cure/survival of humankind and the connection between these two characters.
Actually I believe that most of the game was making a pretty serious effort to make the cure as pointless as possible.
From all the people you encounter, there are like a handful worth saving and even they may be past the point of being able to re-integrate into a society.
But the rest are bandits, cannibals, terrorists (don't let your immediate reaction to the word 'Firefly' misguide you), backstabbers and worse. Not to mention the oppressive state... They are just as lost as the infected; or perhaps even worse because they always have a choice but decide to ignore it.
On the other hand, nature can finally flourish, with the woods and grass taking the cities back and the animals finally able to roam free (although the infected might pray on them, not to mention the survivors). Just look at how outside looks compared to Boston's Quarantine Zone and it feels like humanity should just give up and disappear to make room for something better...
Actually I believe that most of the game was making a pretty serious effort to make the cure as pointless as possible.
From all the people you encounter, there are like a handful worth saving and even they may be past the point of being able to re-integrate into a society.
But the rest are bandits, cannibals, terrorists (don't let your immediate reaction to the word 'Firefly' misguide you), backstabbers and worse. Not to mention the oppressive state... They are just as lost as the infected; or perhaps even worse because they always have a choice but decide to ignore it.
On the other hand, nature can finally flourish, with the woods and grass taking the cities back and the animals finally able to roam free (although the infected might pray on them, not to mention the survivors). Just look at how outside looks compared to Boston's Quarantine Zone and it feels like humanity should just give up and disappear to make room for something better...
I feel like they did a good job of making the people you were killing actually seem just like you. If you stealthed the game you heard the conversations the 'enemies' were having and most often they were not that of murderers and rapists, but of brothers, mothers, and friends. And at many points Joel himself embodied evil. So if Joel and Ellie are worth saving, then those that they were fighting were also worth saving.
I'm curious what about the ending people dislike. The game does leave you wanting more, but the game is completely tied up and has a great resolution that serves the characters well. It's not quite a happy ending, but it isn't a happy game either.
I liked the ending as well. Yes I wanted more, but their story has been told. I really don`t want to hear of other things, a sequel/prequel or whatever... If they do, do it in book form.
Just finished it. Been avoiding this thread for spoiler-fear.
Felt really great overall. Awesome job dogs!
The thing that stood out above a lot of games was the story. Not how awesome it was or something. But how there it was. A lot of the games feel disjointed in areas or story tacked on. I would argue this is a great example of having the writer be the same person directing the game. Really great job. Dialogue was close to Tim Schafer level of awesome too. Love the guitar riffs and background dialogue.
Playing through it felt like The Road, Children of Men, and Breaking Bad had baby. Again crazy awesome job. The art, lighting, gameplay, and music are the best of this gen I'd argue.
This is a good talk about a lot of the spoilers, ending, etc (read: SPOILER WARNING!!!!!):
Only complaint is that there were too many human encounters and not enough infected moments. I wanted more horror and fear, not annoying shooting behind cover with a sloppy stealth system :P
That was the whole goddamn point.
The real conflict is humanity crumbling in on itself. The infected mean nothing. That's exactly why Joel did what he did. The cure isn't important.
So if Joel and Ellie are worth saving, then those that they were fighting were also worth saving.
They weren't really saved, they just survived for another day. The fungus is still there, the infected are there, the humans are still as bad as it gets. So what, they'll be able to live in a relatively large and closed colony, but for how long?
Actually, my impression was that eventually the QZs will break down as well, and there'll be nothing left to scavenge from the old cities either, so the bandits will be forced to gather in larger numbers and raid colonies like the one Tommy has. So their peaceful days are counted...
The real conflict is humanity crumbling in on itself. The infected mean nothing. That's exactly why Joel did what he did. The cure isn't important.
I still like to think Joel's decision was mostly selfish. He doesn't seem like the person to look much past his own life, the only things that matter to him are the things that directly affect him. He's just living in this world, he doesn't really care what happens to humanity.
well yeah, but then again that's how he's been throughout the whole game. In fact I think that's the major theme that dictates every decision. Little picture trumps the bit picture.
Right good game, but its ending really really didn't do it for me.
Joel was hellbent on getting Ellie back from the surgeons, but I personally wasn't- so having to shoot my way through the hospital and then stab that doctor in the neck and then murder the black chick was like not at all what I wanted. Very odd clash of player's motivation vs. player character's motivation.
I like Ellie, but I thought letting the fatal surgery happen was the right thing to do. It seemed like that's what Ellie would have wanted- which she even confirms it at the very end.
Maybe I would have agreed with Joel's egoistical choice if my relationship with Ellie was on par with his, but it wasn't, unfortunately.
Alternatively, getting to choose between saving Ellie or not would have been nice.
I still like to think Joel's decision was mostly selfish. He doesn't seem like the person to look much past his own life, the only things that matter to him are the things that directly affect him. He's just living in this world, he doesn't really care what happens to humanity.
Oh yeah,
it was definitely selfish. He did it to fill the gap in his life that the death of Sarah (his first daughter) left. Ellie's all for dying for the greater good, and would be pissed if she knew the truth about everything that happened at the hospital.
One of the big reasons you don't get a choice at the spot you mentioned is that this is Joel and Ellies story. This is a game crafted around telling a story about these two characters, what happens to them and how they react to the situations there in.
Its not so much as the player is playing his own version of Joel, Joel is a set and established character. His motivations are his own and they are set up the way they are so we can tell the story we wanted to tell. Allowing choice would remove all emotional impact that the ending has.
Its not a happy ending, its not an ending everyone will like. And that is the point. We have had tons of people tell us they love and hate the ending, tons say they agree with Joel and others competently disagree. Its an ending that is suppose to make you uncomfortable, to make you really think about the decisions Joel had made and gives rise to conversations on weather he was right or wrong in his decision. Few games do this and thats what I think makes the story so powerful.
Some games are different, take Mass Effect for example, as the player YOU ARE Commander Shepard, the choices and decisions you make such as your appearance/upgrades and who you save are your choices as you are assuming the role of Commander Shepard. With the Last of Us you are playing Joels story, you are not specifically amusing the role of Joel and making decisions based on your own personal motivations. There is room in this world for both types of games and story and thats what I think is so great
I personally really liked the choices made towards Joel as a character and the ending; so many games create a bland shell of a person in the attempt to let the player choose what kind of person they want to be, but that in it self often destroys ways to meaningfully relate to and exist in the game world resulting in a bland experience rather than being part of it, the fact that you are a mindless generic anyman only pushes you away from it.
The characters had clear persona's that made me feel apart of the world and story. The ending is something Joel would do and I appreciated it for that.
There was an interesting article on Polygon awhile back that I think sums this up.
By the plot's climax, the game's designers needed to emphasize that the wants of Joel and the wants of the player are not the same. Sure, you're guiding Joel's external actions, but you have no control of his internal thinking. Forcing you to (Spoilers) to externalize what's happening inside of Joel's brain is the writer shouting, "Shame on you for assuming you are this man." It's a smart twist on our expectations from having played hundreds of faceless, characterless heroes in action games.
Loved the game and its beautiful artwork, good job guys :thumbup:
Just finished the game recently. Told my wife it's something you experience and appreciate, and are impressed by, but "enjoy" isn't a good word. Kind of like you don't "enjoy" Schindler's List.
One thing that occurred to me about Joel's decision at the very end was that while he may have decided on Ellie over an immediate vaccine, she very well still could pass on her immunity to her children and their descendents. The Fireflies were extremely short-sighted in their approach of "take brain, maybe get vaccine now", and that was likely driven by their political struggle with FEDRA. Their ideology was driving them to take a huge risk that they would get something effective from this one-shot chance, instead of protecting it and letting that gift spread more dependably through generations.
Joel was both protecting Ellie and hedging humanity's bets against the Fireflies taking humanity's only hope and screwing it up because of either bad luck or conditions that weren't too far from the squalid field hospitals in MASH.
Inherited immunity is probably a better chance for the species long-term. Through that lens, his choice stops looking selfish and starts looking VERY smart.
So, three cheers for Joel, the self-interested far-sighted savior of the species.
Eh, I disagree DKK, when a game makes you do something you disagree with, you remember it, and results in a more powerful moment. The closest example I can think of now is in Braid when you try to save the princess, you end up actually being the monster. Also in a 3rd person game, you are not playing as yourself, you are controlling a character.
I still like to think Joel's decision was mostly selfish. He doesn't seem like the person to look much past his own life, the only things that matter to him are the things that directly affect him. He's just living in this world, he doesn't really care what happens to humanity.
Yeah, because getting to know someone and having to travel across the country and develop a relationship... THEN having to turn her in so that she can become a science project, of empty promises.... (or at least not a clear and definite sign of synthesizing a cure) is a very easy decision to make... thus making joel a selfish asshole. yes, totally....easy decision to make.
Just saw this submission reel on vimeo (possible spoilers if you havent played through the game) its awesome really reminds me why i enjoyed the game so much.
Maybe Autocon can shed some light on to this... but playing last of us again i noticed that there are prerendered videos that look like prerendered videos. They are kinda compressed... like old school games i guess. Now. Uncharted 3 is very hard to distinguish this prerendered videos. I think there are some, but maybe there are less of them? Whats up with that? I felt Uncharted 3 felt way more vibrant and polished as far as materials go as well. Any thoughts?
Maybe Autocon can shed some light on to this... but playing last of us again i noticed that there are prerendered videos that look like prerendered videos. They are kinda compressed... like old school games i guess. Now. Uncharted 3 is very hard to distinguish this prerendered videos. I think there are some, but maybe there are less of them? Whats up with that? I felt Uncharted 3 felt way more vibrant and polished as far as materials go as well. Any thoughts?
The pre-rendered cut scenes appeared compressed? In what way do you mean? Like the quality wasn't as high as in game?
We did use pre-rendered cut scenes in both Uncharted and The Last of Us. In terms of how many? I cannot be sure as the TLOU is a longer game than Uncharted, but I believe we had relatively the same amount of pre-rendered cut scenes for both in terms of time/cutscenes.
Things are still all captured within the actual game, but with the addition of the highest rez characters, highest facial bone count, cinematic lights, and generally higher detailed spaces frame rate would be far lower than our actual game. So we capture our pre-rendered cut scenes frame by frame so we can play them back at the same speed as our in game stuff. Its mostly so we can get the best lighting/facial animations without huge hits to frame rate.
Now why do TLOU cut scenes stand out far more than Uncharted? Well I think that is due to our lighting artists. For Uncharted 3 the majority of our lighting artists lit the in game spaces, as well as the cinematic spaces. I actually dont think we had people fully dedicated to just cinematic lighting. So I believe they lit there scenes to match as close to in game as possible so you dont have a jarring transition.
For TLOU, we had new additions to the lighting team, and some were dedicated to lighting the cinematic spaces. Some of the guys came from pre-rendered cinematic backgrounds and I think tried to light those scenes as best they could to get the best looking/most emotional impact possible. And unfortunately our game engine just couldn't run all that real time. So for TLOU they tried to get the best lighting possible in those cinematics when they could and for Uncharted, it was more about making them look great but not have such a jarring transition.
The whole reason why TLOU cinematics stand out more is just what I believe is the reason, I could be totally wrong haha
oh.. cool.. thanks for taking the time to talk a little about it.
There are just many differences in the prerendered. For example. is all of the intro in U3 prerendered? nate and sully walking through alleys and into the bar? the transitions are very smooth. Or young Nate intro. Of course you can tell some difference in the shaders on clothes, but the lighting, textures, shaders, everything is very consistent.
Now in LoU i have seen a lot of just lower res i think. Looks more pixelated i think, and i do see that they had different priorities on their lighting. Like ambient effects that are not present in game that are very noticeable. Honestly, i like in engine better. All the art works together better than in the cutscenes. Which are pretty awesome for story telling, but there is a disconnection when you see a prerendered cutscene. At least on my playthrough of it. Like... all of the intro to the game, the first bit is prerendered right? then when she is woken up by the phone its all gameplay until they meet with the army next to the bridge. There is a lot of continuity in that respect.
Now... are the models that much different in terms of shaders and texture work for LoU and U3? i notice in game that things blur and go out of focus a lot. Something that i don't see in LoU. When you see Joels shirt moving it is nice when it still, but then it kinda blurs a lot. Even when just walking. Is this an addition to blur effects or post processing?
The Last of Us Left Behind DLC is out tomorrow! Avoid spoilers as there are some big moments you wont want ruined for you.
There is some really fun unqiue gameplay in this DLC getting to play as Ellie before she met up with Joel. Some really interesting combat as it is before Ellie became really capable with a gun. As well as Player/Human/Infected 3 way battles!
Replies
Really enjoying the soundtrack though
There's also no other premise they could go with for a sequel that would carry anywhere near as much weight as the ones used in this game. The cure/survival of humankind and the connection between these two characters. They've created a situation similar to other games (Uncharted/Halo) where stories not revolving around those characters and themes would just be very B-side.
Sorry man!
The science behind the last of us
Actually I believe that most of the game was making a pretty serious effort to make the cure as pointless as possible.
From all the people you encounter, there are like a handful worth saving and even they may be past the point of being able to re-integrate into a society.
But the rest are bandits, cannibals, terrorists (don't let your immediate reaction to the word 'Firefly' misguide you), backstabbers and worse. Not to mention the oppressive state... They are just as lost as the infected; or perhaps even worse because they always have a choice but decide to ignore it.
On the other hand, nature can finally flourish, with the woods and grass taking the cities back and the animals finally able to roam free (although the infected might pray on them, not to mention the survivors). Just look at how outside looks compared to Boston's Quarantine Zone and it feels like humanity should just give up and disappear to make room for something better...
I feel like they did a good job of making the people you were killing actually seem just like you. If you stealthed the game you heard the conversations the 'enemies' were having and most often they were not that of murderers and rapists, but of brothers, mothers, and friends. And at many points Joel himself embodied evil. So if Joel and Ellie are worth saving, then those that they were fighting were also worth saving.
Felt really great overall. Awesome job dogs!
The thing that stood out above a lot of games was the story. Not how awesome it was or something. But how there it was. A lot of the games feel disjointed in areas or story tacked on. I would argue this is a great example of having the writer be the same person directing the game. Really great job. Dialogue was close to Tim Schafer level of awesome too. Love the guitar riffs and background dialogue.
Playing through it felt like The Road, Children of Men, and Breaking Bad had baby. Again crazy awesome job. The art, lighting, gameplay, and music are the best of this gen I'd argue.
This is a good talk about a lot of the spoilers, ending, etc (read: SPOILER WARNING!!!!!):
http://youtu.be/IxDZh2fd4AU
That was the whole goddamn point.
They weren't really saved, they just survived for another day. The fungus is still there, the infected are there, the humans are still as bad as it gets. So what, they'll be able to live in a relatively large and closed colony, but for how long?
Actually, my impression was that eventually the QZs will break down as well, and there'll be nothing left to scavenge from the old cities either, so the bandits will be forced to gather in larger numbers and raid colonies like the one Tommy has. So their peaceful days are counted...
Edit: also agree with the post above
I like Ellie, but I thought letting the fatal surgery happen was the right thing to do. It seemed like that's what Ellie would have wanted- which she even confirms it at the very end.
Maybe I would have agreed with Joel's egoistical choice if my relationship with Ellie was on par with his, but it wasn't, unfortunately.
Alternatively, getting to choose between saving Ellie or not would have been nice.
Kinda bummed now.
Oh yeah,
Its not so much as the player is playing his own version of Joel, Joel is a set and established character. His motivations are his own and they are set up the way they are so we can tell the story we wanted to tell. Allowing choice would remove all emotional impact that the ending has.
Some games are different, take Mass Effect for example, as the player YOU ARE Commander Shepard, the choices and decisions you make such as your appearance/upgrades and who you save are your choices as you are assuming the role of Commander Shepard. With the Last of Us you are playing Joels story, you are not specifically amusing the role of Joel and making decisions based on your own personal motivations. There is room in this world for both types of games and story and thats what I think is so great
The characters had clear persona's that made me feel apart of the world and story.
The ending is something Joel would do and I appreciated it for that.
There was an interesting article on Polygon awhile back that I think sums this up.
Loved the game and its beautiful artwork, good job guys :thumbup:
Joel was both protecting Ellie and hedging humanity's bets against the Fireflies taking humanity's only hope and screwing it up because of either bad luck or conditions that weren't too far from the squalid field hospitals in MASH.
Inherited immunity is probably a better chance for the species long-term. Through that lens, his choice stops looking selfish and starts looking VERY smart.
So, three cheers for Joel, the self-interested far-sighted savior of the species.
http://vimeo.com/hungrydlam/tlouannieawards
The pre-rendered cut scenes appeared compressed? In what way do you mean? Like the quality wasn't as high as in game?
We did use pre-rendered cut scenes in both Uncharted and The Last of Us. In terms of how many? I cannot be sure as the TLOU is a longer game than Uncharted, but I believe we had relatively the same amount of pre-rendered cut scenes for both in terms of time/cutscenes.
Things are still all captured within the actual game, but with the addition of the highest rez characters, highest facial bone count, cinematic lights, and generally higher detailed spaces frame rate would be far lower than our actual game. So we capture our pre-rendered cut scenes frame by frame so we can play them back at the same speed as our in game stuff. Its mostly so we can get the best lighting/facial animations without huge hits to frame rate.
Now why do TLOU cut scenes stand out far more than Uncharted? Well I think that is due to our lighting artists. For Uncharted 3 the majority of our lighting artists lit the in game spaces, as well as the cinematic spaces. I actually dont think we had people fully dedicated to just cinematic lighting. So I believe they lit there scenes to match as close to in game as possible so you dont have a jarring transition.
For TLOU, we had new additions to the lighting team, and some were dedicated to lighting the cinematic spaces. Some of the guys came from pre-rendered cinematic backgrounds and I think tried to light those scenes as best they could to get the best looking/most emotional impact possible. And unfortunately our game engine just couldn't run all that real time. So for TLOU they tried to get the best lighting possible in those cinematics when they could and for Uncharted, it was more about making them look great but not have such a jarring transition.
The whole reason why TLOU cinematics stand out more is just what I believe is the reason, I could be totally wrong haha
There are just many differences in the prerendered. For example. is all of the intro in U3 prerendered? nate and sully walking through alleys and into the bar? the transitions are very smooth. Or young Nate intro. Of course you can tell some difference in the shaders on clothes, but the lighting, textures, shaders, everything is very consistent.
Now in LoU i have seen a lot of just lower res i think. Looks more pixelated i think, and i do see that they had different priorities on their lighting. Like ambient effects that are not present in game that are very noticeable. Honestly, i like in engine better. All the art works together better than in the cutscenes. Which are pretty awesome for story telling, but there is a disconnection when you see a prerendered cutscene. At least on my playthrough of it. Like... all of the intro to the game, the first bit is prerendered right? then when she is woken up by the phone its all gameplay until they meet with the army next to the bridge. There is a lot of continuity in that respect.
Now... are the models that much different in terms of shaders and texture work for LoU and U3? i notice in game that things blur and go out of focus a lot. Something that i don't see in LoU. When you see Joels shirt moving it is nice when it still, but then it kinda blurs a lot. Even when just walking. Is this an addition to blur effects or post processing?
There is some really fun unqiue gameplay in this DLC getting to play as Ellie before she met up with Joel. Some really interesting combat as it is before Ellie became really capable with a gun. As well as Player/Human/Infected 3 way battles!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5jt7Twyhxc
A very good review! I'm certainly interested in revisiting the universe