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Diablo 3

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  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 18
    We've had a ton of info and lore revealed to us through the previous games already, the first ones were always going to be more mysterious as we knew less than we know now.

    Which is the grand scale of sanctuary becoming the battlefield between heaven and hell, less mysterious but still the same.
    Diablo1's intro, while great was completely detached from the game in every way, but it set the mood.

    It can be hard to recover that feeling from diablo1 where you are fully alone and going down into something you don't comprehend, when in diablo3 we know all the backstory and important characters, evils, and angels, you were heavily alone in diablo 1 & 2, but in diablo 3 the world seems to be increasingly more involved.

    It becomes more of a game where sanctuary is at stake, not just mainly your own sanity.
  • Zpanzer
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    Zpanzer polycounter lvl 8
    Blaisoid wrote: »
    bullcrap. don't you see the that it was deliberate? i saw lots of cinematics from that era that weren't grim or mysterious AT ALL. fog is just one aspect of that vibe.
    and surely the modern technology doesn't mean that blizzard HAD to make an intro that lacks the evil atmosphere?

    What you're saying is like saying that Matt Uelman would write cliche orchestral tracks full of pathos for D1 levels but they just didn't have money to hire an orchestra.

    Having watched all the D2 cinematics yesterday, I've gotta say I can't really get all the macabre stuff people are refering too. You see a skinny man lying on a floor.. you see a skinny man in an inn with is set on fire... you see a skinny man walk through the desert.. you see a skinny man pull a soulstone out of mephistos and you see a skinny man getting killed by Baal... and then you see a fat man getting killed by Baal.

    The narrative, while great, ain't really macabre in any way. There is more violence, blood and grim atmosphere in the Dead island cinematic where you see a little girl getting bit by a zombie and then proceed to kill her own parents.

    I'm sorry, but I just can't see why people claim Blizzard ain't capturing the same feeling in the new cinematics.
  • Blaisoid
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    Blaisoid polycounter lvl 7
    i never said that Diablo 2 was macabric. I said that DIABLO was. when i first saw D2 cinematics between acts back in 2000 i already felt that the atmosphere was lacking. I didn't like the exotic stuff and flashy glowing angel whatevers.
    but i vaguely recall that it still had a few places with that great vibe.

    @ Eld
    That's true. Expanding the universe means sacrificing some of the mood. Lenght of the game required more variety in environments etc.

    Then again one of my favourite manga, Berserk, managed to stay grim for many years even though it had lots of characters and explored various, sometimes exotic places.
    It still had whole towns dying from plague, it had human sacrifice, it had sado-masochistic demons, it had a mad priest sending people to tortures to purify them, it had a pseudo-baphometan cult that ate boiled children, it had a king who wanted to fuck his dauther, it had army decorating the conquered palace with heads of enemies and so on.

    my only hope is that according to what i heard Heaven isn't portrayed as an ultimately "good" faction in Diablo games? i'm not much into the lore a but this made me curious.
  • uncle
    /offtopic
    Yeah, but somehow recently Berserk became festival of fairies, pirates and mermaids. I wonder how it came to this...

    /ontopic

    I think new cinematic lacks the turpism that made it's predecessors grim and twisted feel. I don't care How much of this was art direction, how much technical issue. I know it felt right and well placed into the overall feel.
  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 18
    Blaisoid wrote: »
    my only hope is that according to what i heard Heaven isn't portrayed as an ultimately "good" faction in Diablo games? i'm not much into the lore a but this made me curious.

    Pretty much, it's too sides, with struggles and bad things on each sides.

    Ultimately heaven is good, but there's always different ideas of at what cost, and ultimately the greater evils are evil, but then there's civil wars going on in hell between evils, etc..

    Most angels according to diablo lore does not agree with aiding the humans of sanctuary directly, but that they should be on their own and take their own path.

    Sanctuary has a partially demonic origin, and the heavens even contemplated destroying it because of that, originally.
  • Fuse
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    Fuse polycounter lvl 18
    After reading all of this rubbish, I think you guys have a point. With the first 2 games introducing the universe, the mood was fitting. Where the story is going now it's less mysterious but more epic and grand.

    What do you know, polycount brings truth and reason :)

    The gameplay looks damn good!
  • Kurry
    Played the beta and loved it, even the mood and art direction is different then the old D's. It took me about a minute before I knew I am going to stick way too much time in d3 :poly121:

    For all the people that don't feel D3s direction, Path of Exile might be interesting to you instead:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KIGlgI0vyU&feature=relmfu"]Path of Exile - BETA Let's Play 001: Twilight Strand, Terraces, Mud Flats - Gameplay - YouTube[/ame]

    (Am going to play that AND D3 though ;p)
  • Sculptaur
    Most of us working on PoE will be playing D3 :)

    Really excited for Diablo, at first I thought the art direction was a bit odd, but its grown on me and the more I see the more I like it.
  • Blaisoid
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    Blaisoid polycounter lvl 7
    For all the people that don't feel D3s direction, Path of Exile might be interesting to you instead:

    Indeed, it looks much much better. i think i saw a dungeon gameplay already somewhere. it's not even that grim but just the fact that it doesn't have that fairy handpainted style makes it 10 times more appealing to me.

    It also proves to me that diablo's old vibe isn't just a matter of oldschool graphics and can be achieved on modern engines.
  • slipsius
    Im in the beta and LOVE it. but you know what game I miss, which i would LOVE to see another, but with more and better randomized loot? Sacred 2...
  • Kurry
    slipsius wrote: »
    Im in the beta and LOVE it. but you know what game I miss, which i would LOVE to see another, but with more and better randomized loot? Sacred 2...

    God yes! Loved that game to bits. Especially playing with friends.
  • Ged
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    Ged interpolator
    sacred 2 is the best diablo style rpg Ive ever seen on xbox 360 been trying to get my mates to play it online with me, its so funny playing multiplayer! will diablo ever be on console?
  • Joseph Silverman
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    Joseph Silverman polycounter lvl 17
    Blaisoid wrote: »
    just the fact that it doesn't have that fairy handpainted style makes it 10 times more appealing to me.

    Can at least polycount manage to get by without trying to degrade the work of probably the most impressive art team in the games industry just because it isnt manly enough?
    Blizzard is simply shrugging off their own style and identity and selling it for wholesome redundancy.

    Seriosuly man? Gritty and gothic was their style for TWO GAMES. They have outstanding art direction, and I can't think of anyone off the top of my head (withing videogames) who they copied with d3, sc2, OR wow. Their games are 100% style, it's just not a style you think is cool.
  • slipsius
    Ged wrote: »
    sacred 2 is the best diablo style rpg Ive ever seen on xbox 360 been trying to get my mates to play it online with me, its so funny playing multiplayer! will diablo ever be on console?

    One of the best diablo style rpg games.... ever.... I think it is slightly under, or just on par with diablo 2. If there was a team to back it and keep going with it, It would have been better, I think. Diablo 2 had the loot down. Diablo 3 even more so, it seems. Love their randomization of everything. But sacred 2 was pure goodness in every sense of the word. Just needed more randomized loot, with no set "this is the best weapon in the game"

    Third in line behind those two... titans quest. I dont care who you are, thats a good game.
  • Blaisoid
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    Blaisoid polycounter lvl 7
    Can at least polycount manage to get by without trying to degrade the work of probably the most impressive art team in the games industry just because it isnt manly enough?

    I never wrote that artists did a shitty job (nor did the others), so you can cut the "degrading" crap.

    They are professionals. they have been told to go in this direction so they did.
    Whether they actually prefer diablo to be in this style or not doesn't matter much.
    Not saying that they are unhappy, but thing is those guys probably have loads of fun no matter what style they're dealing with.

    So if blizzard told them to go in the direction that PoE took, they would do so as well. And i'm sure that they would make assets as good as ones they're making now.
    /offtopic
    Yeah, but somehow recently Berserk became festival of fairies, pirates and mermaids. I wonder how it came to this...
    Indeed. I don't know anyone who wouldn't cringe reading this arc. But hey, even at the current pace, it has to end some day.
  • Joseph Silverman
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    Joseph Silverman polycounter lvl 17
    Blaisoid wrote: »
    I never wrote that artists did a shitty job (nor did the others), so you can cut the "degrading" crap.

    They are professionals. they have been told to go in this direction so they did.
    Whether they actually prefer diablo to be in this style or not doesn't matter much.
    Not saying that they are unhappy, but thing is those guys probably have loads of fun no matter what style they're dealing with.

    And what about the arists who create those designs and directed the team to follow them? I was talking about the concept artists / art directors and whatever artistic freedom the modelers have, not the technical execution. You're degrading the value of the design by implying it's just commercialized. Someone drew or painted or modeled all of those designs.
  • Fuse
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    Fuse polycounter lvl 18
    SupRore wrote: »
    Can at least polycount manage to get by without trying to degrade the work of probably the most impressive art team in the games industry just because it isnt manly enough?



    Seriosuly man? Gritty and gothic was their style for TWO GAMES. They have outstanding art direction, and I can't think of anyone off the top of my head (withing videogames) who they copied with d3, sc2, OR wow. Their games are 100% style, it's just not a style you think is cool.

    I've worked with people who are blindly devoted to anything blizzard, it was the holy grail of artistic achievement for them. It got frustrating trying to have meaningful discussion on game art.
  • Noodle!
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    Noodle! polycounter lvl 8
    My feelings about the artstyle are twofold and completely contradictive.

    First, I love it. I think it looks gorgeous, it's got tons of atmosphere and everything reads incredibly well. It feels like playing in a really cool painting.
    Gameplay is super smooth and the skills + runes feel fresh and intuitive.

    Second, I dislike it because while I love it, I also loved the first Diablo, and the grim (GRIMDARK) feeling that came with it.
    This goes through the intro with the raven and into the games with the feelings of despair you almost felt from the townsfolk, and venturing down into the dark catacombs where you felt vulnerable but like you were really exploring. It was very mystic.
    Enemies died in gruesome gargles and didn't get launched back several yards in almost a slapstick way, which I don't dislike as such, but it also detracts from all that grimdark grim darkness.

    So, the reason I dislike it is simply because it means there will be no Diablo with that classic style again.

    I had the exact same feelings about Fallout 3, which was a super fun game that I put endless hours into, but also put the final nail in the hopes of a "classic" fallout game.
  • Marine
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    Marine polycounter lvl 19
    I've no problem with the current look, looks better than the grey on grey look from the cancelled version
    MGclr.jpg
    moar pictures
  • TrevorJ
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    TrevorJ polycounter lvl 14
    Nailed it Noodle! took the words from my mouth, about fallout 3 as well.
  • Zpanzer
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    Zpanzer polycounter lvl 8
    Marine wrote: »
    I've no problem with the current look, looks better than the grey on grey look from the cancelled version
    MGclr.jpg
    moar pictures

    Agreed.. While Diablo 2 had a great graphics back in the day, looking back now and having played it again recently, everything is so desaturated, grey, faded, boring to look at after a while. I just don't think the Diablo 2 artstyle would hold up 10 years later when so many advances in game design and art direction has happened... Atleast that's how I see it.
  • Ferg
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    Ferg polycounter lvl 17
    Noodle! wrote: »
    I had the exact same feelings about Fallout 3, which was a super fun game that I put endless hours into, but also put the final nail in the hopes of a "classic" fallout game.

    Except that fallout 3 kept that gritty, dirty style. Diablo 3 doesn't carry the grit from the previous games. I agree with you overall though, Diablo 3 looks great... it just doesn't look like diablo. They're obviously designing the game to appeal to the majority of current blizzard fans, not diablo fans.
  • Stinger88
  • Stinger88
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    Stinger88 polycounter
    oh, and 15 years of Diablo anniversary site:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/anniversary/
  • Stinger88
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    Stinger88 polycounter
    More news.

    http://kotaku.com/5877568/blizzard-still-busily-mucking-about-with-diablo-iiis-core-systems

    identify scrolls - out
    Cauldron of Jordan and Nephalem Cube - out
    Defense, Attack, and Precision - out

    Lots of out and not many ins. Game getting simpler maybe? For console market?....
  • crazyfingers
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    crazyfingers polycounter lvl 10
    Just less and less excited for this game. It seems like they're bringing the power of all items down more and more by removing customization to keep the ball in their corner for deciding what items are powerful so they can sell the masses more and more junk.

    With less stats and attributes there's less to grind for. With blizzard controlling the drop rates to maximize profits there's less to grind for. Without a self fulfilling grind what's the point of diablo?

    Because they're gearing for a broader, more casual audience, they simply can't expect them to gear their stats and power in an optimal fashion, meaning they can't balance difficulty towards a median player. If they can't do this, they can't properly tune items in a way to maximize profit. They need to ensure joey who spent 15 bucks on a new sword is more powerful than anyone regardless of build. Building an optimal build is going to be so mind numbingly easy that it will be meaningless

    They'll probably sell packs that increase your odds of finding rare loot for X days, making it the only way to find decent items on your own and it'll probably be overbalanced to give a certain number of items to hard code your ability to farm. In order to keep a "healthy economy" item drops are going to be overregulated on the unseen server side of blizzard which will make the game stale and boring.

    Oh well, some people like paying for this stuff, just not my cup of tea and it's sad to see blizzard start cashing out so hard. Hey everyone, great news on diablo! We're gutting it even more to ensure we can make more money off it. But we're taking out identify scrolls /throwbone
  • firestarter
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    firestarter polycounter lvl 19
    Stinger88 wrote: »
    More news.

    http://kotaku.com/5877568/blizzard-still-busily-mucking-about-with-diablo-iiis-core-systems

    identify scrolls - out
    Cauldron of Jordan and Nephalem Cube - out
    Defense, Attack, and Precision - out

    Lots of out and not many ins. Game getting simpler maybe? For console market?....

    Facebook.
  • Zpanzer
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    Zpanzer polycounter lvl 8
    Just less and less excited for this game. It seems like they're bringing the power of all items down more and more by removing customization to keep the ball in their corner for deciding what items are powerful so they can sell the masses more and more junk.

    With less stats and attributes there's less to grind for. With blizzard controlling the drop rates to maximize profits there's less to grind for. Without a self fulfilling grind what's the point of diablo?

    Because they're gearing for a broader, more casual audience, they simply can't expect them to gear their stats and power in an optimal fashion, meaning they can't balance difficulty towards a median player. If they can't do this, they can't properly tune items in a way to maximize profit. They need to ensure joey who spent 15 bucks on a new sword is more powerful than anyone regardless of build. Building an optimal build is going to be so mind numbingly easy that it will be meaningless

    They'll probably sell packs that increase your odds of finding rare loot for X days, making it the only way to find decent items on your own and it'll probably be overbalanced to give a certain number of items to hard code your ability to farm. In order to keep a "healthy economy" item drops are going to be overregulated on the unseen server side of blizzard which will make the game stale and boring.

    Oh well, some people like paying for this stuff, just not my cup of tea and it's sad to see blizzard start cashing out so hard. Hey everyone, great news on diablo! We're gutting it even more to ensure we can make more money off it. But we're taking out identify scrolls /throwbone

    I think you may be setting fire to your torches and bringing out the pitch forks way to early :P No-one has any insight the Diablo 3 late game but Blizzard, and it seems these changes are trying to balance out itemization in the late game, so it will actually take you some time to grind up to perfect gear.

    I really doubt that Blizzard will sell any packs with loot finding increases.. It's called magic find and has been a core part of Diablo for a long time... And so far I've never seen Blizzard sell anything that had a direct impact on the gameplay.
  • Isaiah Sherman
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    Isaiah Sherman polycounter lvl 14
    Zpanzer wrote: »
    I really doubt that Blizzard will sell any packs with loot finding increases...

    They won't, but everyone else will. Real-money AH.
  • Zombie Acorn
    People already bought and sold items for real cash on external sites anyways. Blizzard is just internalizing the process. Not my cup of tea, but to each their own.
  • slipsius
    I dislike that they got rid of the cubes... I really liked those.. At least the cauldron to let us sell stuff. If the only reason you go back to town is to sell, then you really dont need to go back. *Shrug*
  • moose
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    moose polycount sponsor
    Aw :( The Cube & Cauldron were some of my favorite new features! That, and being able to disassemble white items! I actually felt more compelled to be a loot whore than in Diablo 2, which seems like the opposite scenario described on their blog. I actually had a lot of fun (probably a minority), filling my bags full of shit, looking at items for upgrades, then destroying everything for parts and pieces. Would get back to town, build a bunch of items, and either break them down, sell them, or in most cases use them.

    Don't really care about the specifics of attributes. I find it odd that info was released, seems like a very technical thing. *shrug* I guess some people care though.

    lemme kill demons n shit!
  • Noodle!
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    Noodle! polycounter lvl 8
    I really liked the cube too, but I also believe that the people at blizzard are some of the best game designers in the world, so I've got every bit of trust that whatever decision they make in that area is probably for the greater good.

    If they want the in game auctioning then the game has to be addicting enough to have people buy the things, and you don't get an addicting games without massive fun and replayability. I think they're doing much to get there.

    If it happens that it's consolified and too simplified I'll eat my words.
  • moose
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    moose polycount sponsor
    Noodle! wrote: »
    I really liked the cube too, but I also believe that the people at blizzard are some of the best game designers in the world, so I've got every bit of trust that whatever decision they make in that area is probably for the greater good.

    If they want the in game auctioning then the game has to be addicting enough to have people buy the things, and you don't get an addicting games without massive fun and replayability. I think they're doing much to get there.

    If it happens that it's consolified and too simplified I'll eat my words.

    Oh, for sure I completely agree. They know what's best for their game and I'm sure it will be amazing regardless of a UI button or not :)

    i'm just sad because I liked it, hehe.
  • Stinger88
  • Paznos
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    Paznos triangle
    Noodle! wrote: »
    you don't get an addicting games without massive fun and replayability..

    Heard of Farmville? i hear ir's a real riot.

    Man, i really wanna love D3, i was a huge D2 but looking at all these changes it feels like the entire game is constructed around itemization and the real cash AH. I mean look at runes in D2 you earnt your abilities through xp and they were avaliable to everyone but in this it's like the most powerful runes and abilities are relegated to those willing to throw down the most cash.

    Castlevania 2 makes a pretty fitting parable imo and its worth a watch if your interested in game design / deconstructing a game to its parts... or if you haven't seen it.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aip2aIt0ROM"]Sequelitis - Castlevania 1 vs. Castlevania 2 - YouTube[/ame]

    Complaints aside i'mma still totally buy it lol (tragic)
  • crazyfingers
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    crazyfingers polycounter lvl 10
    Dude, that sequelitus video bugs the shit out of me. Castlevania 2 was revolutionary and awesome but whatever.

    I do love his videos though, this one also has some insightful commentary in regards to what makes a good sequel or at least what used to (luls):
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM&feature=related"]Sequelitis - Mega Man Classic vs. Mega Man X - YouTube[/ame]
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    God that was fucking grating. Shame cause what he says makes sense.
  • Isaiah Sherman
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    Isaiah Sherman polycounter lvl 14
    That Megaman design video is epic. I love every aspect of it. I am SO SICK of "Tap X to do SHIT." I completely agree with the idea that some designers are just copping out and thinking we're all total retards.
  • Rilem
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    Rilem polycounter lvl 7
    Am I the only one annoyed by the constant screaming of egoraptor? I know the guy loves to do funny video's, but in these video's I'm actually interested in what he has to say. Only to have him scream certain parts out loud accompanied by one of his animations just to get people to go: 'lololol he did something random', and keep them watching.
    The megaman analysis was damn good, but at the same time it annoyed me. :/
  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 18
    Paznos wrote: »
    I mean look at runes in D2 you earnt your abilities through xp and they were avaliable to everyone but in this it's like the most powerful runes and abilities are relegated to those willing to throw down the most cash.

    In diablo2 you had a one way grinding trip to max level, and you had a 1000 different variations you could do with your character when picking skills, out of those, only 4 variations were good, the rest were less than and ineffective, it was even best avoiding to spend any statspoints until you knew you needed the points for an item, and skills were best spent to follow a build, as just following what you felt was fun to use ended in disaster.

    After that you could try to get the best items, or much like many other people would just buy them from chinese farmers.
  • crazyfingers
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    crazyfingers polycounter lvl 10
    Lots of invites going out, check your emails/ battle.net accounts.
  • TheWinterLord
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    TheWinterLord polycounter lvl 17
    Gah the beta is so easy, making it extremely boring. My first and only playthrough i did with with a guy at work we were using no equipment except the starting weapon. still not a tense moment... just go forward click on the enemies that cant hurt you kinda...

    Seems like they are taking a lot of stuff out so that it will be easier for consoles? Is it gonna release on consoles or is D3 PC only?

    I already ordered the collectors edition, hopefully you can increase the difficulty a whole lot at the start of the game.
  • Isaiah Sherman
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    Isaiah Sherman polycounter lvl 14
    Some o my buddies at Blizz said the real game is considerably harder and is very, very satisfying. I also played the beta on a friend's computer and got bored out of my mind in like 15 minutes. It's pretty clear that they made it bat shit easy simply for the sake of core testing, which is smart.

    Hell, if I owned a company, I would have half of the QA running on the current beta difficulty just to make sure game play doesn't get in the way of finding serious bugs.
  • Stinger88
  • slipsius
    May 15th, ladies and gents! GET READY!!!!!

    edit - stinger beat me to it by seconds! haha
  • glottis8
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    glottis8 polycounter lvl 9
    May 15th is my moms birthday :) haha good day to take the day off.
  • Marine
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    Marine polycounter lvl 19
    £45 for the digital edition, £32 from Amazon for a boxed copy. Fuck you, Blizzard.
  • Fid
    Finally! I really wanted to get my paws on a CE version but Amazon UK had no price on it until now. £69.99 if you're keen enough.
  • Jeff Parrott
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    Jeff Parrott polycounter lvl 19
    I already feel myself getting a flu. It's coming on slow though. It'll probably be bad enough I'll have to stay at home in mid May.
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