Kun, the scripting capabilities are sort of script/API to connect between/among other apps, for example by just 1 click your model in VW can be sent to zbrush/mudbox for sculpting, and then 1 click from zbrush/mudbox to VW and the model in VW gets updated. That's one of many ways API can be used.
But honestly that's not the priority yet, although could be planned for.
Regarding the UI overhaul plan, I agree with arshlevon. Qt is what big programs are using now (maya, nextlimit realflow/maxwell, and Lightwave Core). I'm not sure how you see it as a developer but I personally think it saves u lots of time rather than building the UI from scratch by your own.
QT uses C++, I use C#. So the codes can not ported by simple copy and paste, in other words, it has to be rewrite. For a simple programe with a few hundred code lines, it could be ok. But for VW, its hundreds of thousands of code lines. It is not a one on one mapping when porting codes since different languages handle things in different styles. Also some .net libraries I am using may not be ported to QT and I can not create them myself.
I've found that when you use the radial menu to add a BG image, that if you go to another viewport and try it again, it doesn't work. This is because you have to come out of fullscreen to press the BG button in the UI.
My advice would be to be able to set the BG up regardless if its with the radial or hotkey or UI button, but once you have set the image in place and come out of the manipulative operations, the button should automatically be inactive. That way, if I set a BG image in the front view, I can automatically go to the left viewport and add another BG image without having to click the little BG button on the side of the screen.
I wanted to let you know also that when I have a front view image in the front view and a left view image in the left view, even if I have the left polys or verts side selected on the left side of the mesh in either view, its selected on the opposite side in the perspective view. If I have to upload a pic to show you, I will.
It's just backwards in the perspective view, almost like its the back view or something.
Kris: I have improved the tool UI on full screen. When you turn on a button tool like BG Image via hot keys or by radial menu in full screen, the full screen maintains and the settings of that tool will appear in a small floating form.
Not sure what is the second issue, a pic would be cool.
Kris: I have improved the tool UI on full screen. When you turn on a button tool like BG Image via hot keys or by radial menu in full screen, the full screen maintains and the settings of that tool will appear in a small floating form.
Do you mean for your upcoming update? Because as of now, hitting B in the viewport will load the image and be accepted upon hitting ok, but using the radial BG keeps the BG button open. You have to leave fullscreen to click it.
As for the pic, I'm on another com now so I'll have to do that tomorrow.
1. The edge is selected on the left side of the mesh in both the front and left views, but in the perspective view, it's selected the right side. This is not simply because the viewport is rotated wrong, but its the mesh is backwards.
2. You'll see that the mesh in the left view is aligned with the nose, but in the perspective view, its going the opposite way, with the wrong side of the mesh selected.
3. Each time I try to select the edge in the perspective view, it gives me an error.
4. I thought it was selecting the wrong side because I had the setup wrong, but as soon as I rotate the mesh to align with the nose, its pointing the opposite way in the perspective.
So, I'm really not sure why it's crashing when I selecct an edge, or why it's selecting the opposite side of the mesh in the perspective. Hope this pic helps, not sure if it will.
Kris: I can see that in front view, you have the model facing +Z direction, but in Left view the model is facing -Z direction. Flip BG image in left view horizontally should fix the problem. You can't have the model facing one direction in a viewport and a different direction in another viewport.
I will check the code and see if I can find out the crashing bug. I doesn't happen in my computer so far. Does it happen often in yours? If thats the case, I can give you a debug version to check it down.
It didn't happen last night, only today...so I don't know why it's crashing. It hasn't crashed since.
As for flipping it, the model's face is in the front view correctly, and it's her left side in the left viewport. It works this way in Maya and Silo when I try it the same way. Why do I have to flip it in VW? I always model heads with the nose pointing to the left.
If it's the correct viewports that correspond with the correct side of the model's head, then it should work correctly. Maybe I'm just used to the other apps. What I did instead was just used a right viewport instead of a left viewport and it works fine. Bit weird to be in the right viewport while working on the left side of her face but, hey, as long as it works
Also, how do I fix the viewplane.. meaning, when I zoom into my mesh in the front view, I can no longer see the mesh. I need to zoom into the areas of the face to model it, but the mesh disappears.
I can't find out any thing in the code that may cause the crashing.
Maybe in other app, in front view the z axis is pointing away from user as opposite to VW. That's the only explain I can think of.
Try F4 to Fit the object into view, this is to update the viewport camera to working space which is relative to the floor grid size. You don't have to do this, if you haven't changed the floor's scale value. Then try Ctrl+Alt+Shift+RMB click at the area you want to focus. The viewport camera's focusing point will be set to ray intersect point with the mesh. When you zoom in/out, the camera focusing point does not change so the geometry around it should be better visible than other areas.
Sounds good. How do you turn off the pivot points or mesh axis in the viewport? I have those little things sitting right on top of the nose, and also right on the lips of my mesh and I can't turn them off or hide them. Also, I think you can select them and move the pivot point, but while the pivot point changes, that little axis thing stays in the same spot.
I'd rather it never be shown in the viewport unless you need to bring it up and move it.
Each object has a pivot point and each mesh in the object has its own pivot point. If I hide them in vertex/edge/polyong mode and show them in mesh/object mode, will that be alright? or should I a create an option so users can turn it on/off when they want?
In Maya, as in Silo, you can hit a key to bring up the pivot point while in or out of subobject mode, move it, then hit the key again and hide it. That way, its never in the way. Its the INSERT key in Maya.
I think that if you could do that, it would be pretty cool too.
Not to be discouraging, but as mentioned early on in this thread, I still wonder why you'd bother with building such a tool when the modeling space is already crowded, and a lot of the feedback here is about getting a feature from another software into VW.
Why not focus on a different part of the pipeline, like a streamlined animation tool that exports to exchange formats like FBX/Collada..?
In VW2.3, I did have the animation create/export/import features that supports Collada and some other formats, not fbx though. Quite a few people in this forum think they want a modeling tool that is more streamlined, stable and efficient, although there are already plenty of modeling tools out there.
I agree with Polyhertz. Sure, there's lots of modelers, but the point of VW is to create one app with the goodies of everyone of them out there. What you love in Maya or Silo, will also be in VW...what you dig in Max, would be in this app.
One modeler to rule them all.
I'm all for animation, but I use Maya. To me, that's the top-dog. If he wanted to make an animation package, then he would be competing with Messiah I think, which would not go too well.
At least with VW, we know that Silo is almost dead, Maya is clunky as a modeler (thanks to hotkeys, it's not too bad though), Modo is still wonky to me, but thats just an opinion. Max may be great but not everyone can afford major packages. Blender is free, but come on... that modeling toolset is crap compared to apps like Silo or even Wings3D for that matter. I wanted him to get funding to place VW's tools in Blender but he thought I was crazy
Here's the thing, everyone knows what a streamlined modeler is like. No one's brought that kind of streamlining to the rigging/weighting/animation space the way Silo/Modo have. I just thought it would be interesting to see a dev bring that kind of attention to a focused area of the pipeline that's been mostly ignored, rather than create another diluted all-around 3D suite.
To his credit, Istonia's pretty good at taking feedback even though it seems like he's being tugged in all different directions. I'll take the animation tools for a spin, and will check back and see if we can build on those as well.
Not sure if it's possible in VW (I had a look but couldn't get it working the way I wanted) but can you set the tweak tool to CTRL? Similar to Silo.
Yeah. Just go to Edit > Customize Tools.. then scroll down to where you see Tweak and click the T. Select CTRL key from the popup.
Then you'll have to scroll up to where you see the Exclude Selection and add Alt to it. So that you have tweak be the Ctrl key, and exclude selection is CTRL ALT. Don't forget to apply the changes.
ghib: Currently, your can move the tweak tool from T to Ctrl and remap the selection keys to [Shift = IncludingSelection] [shift+Alt = ExcludingSelection] [Ctrl+Shift = ToggleSelection]. The tweak tool works in this way [Ctrl+LMB=Move] [Ctrl+RMB=Rotate] [Ctrl+MMB]=Scale] so you don't have to rely on which manipulator being active.
I have the vertex and polygon H tool can do the normal move already. If it is neccessary, I can create a component independent normal move tool and set its key to Z so its near Alt key.
As for the [Shift+RMB = tweak Inset Scale], I am not sure what it is and also have a question: how can you do manipulating while Shift key is a selection control key?
@snowfly - I agree in that it would be nice to see some dedication to the animation side to a pipeline but disagree with your notion of a diluted app. I take 3DCoat as an example of someone taking inspiration from all the best techniques around and implementing them in a cohesive environment. (obviously having it's faults but that's another matter)
The problem with Silo is that it started well but finished short of being the brilliant app it could be. Lack of smoothing groups, lack of useful modifiers like bend etc, wonky Numerical Editor, inconsistent snapping, unreliable symmetry, and a bunch of other poorly implemented features. I could go on all day... VoidWorld in the small time I've used it seems pretty solid already so I have high hopes for it.
IStonia & Kris: thanks a million for responding, I'll give this a go.
RE: [Shift+RMB = tweak Inset Scale] it doesn't interfere with the selection methods I have in Silo where:
Right, I understand Shift+RMB does not interfere with selection now. I need to know what does [tweak Inset Scale] do so I can see if I can implement it.
The full mouse customization will be available in the upcoming update.
Right, I understand Shift+RMB does not interfere with selection now. I need to know what does [tweak Inset Scale] do so I can see if I can implement it.
The full mouse customization will be available in the upcoming update.
Summary of changes
* Radial menu is improved.
* When in full screen mode, if a button tool like BG Image is opened, the full sreen will maintain and the tool's setting controls will appear in a floating form.
* Lots hotkey shortcut tools are added. Please note that some tools' name ends with "#", that means it can work with Redirect Modifier Key (default key is Caps) to perform a similar/opposite action or to bring up an option dialog. eg. if you set [Ctr+L = Loop Insert], [Caps+Ctrl+L] will bring up the loop insert option dialog. Also please note that there are two groups of tools which don't have "#" in tool names but they also can work with Redirect Modifier Key. These two groups are primitive object creation tools and streamline tools.
Hi Kun, just wondering if there's option to make streamline engine being docked into the left side of the window/desktop or at least make it visible permanently with transparency option? I started to rely heavily on keyboard shortcut and everytime I wanna refer to it made me have to pause the cursor for a while. I know it's just 0.5 secs but if you accumulate it by the end of the day it already save you couple minutes.
Just my thought.
And just a fancy request, customizable viewport background (like gradient)
If you grant it I'll help you create presets of each software.
Did a quick test and can only point out a couple things right now:
1. I honestly liked the old radial better. Why? Because I don't chase it across the screen... meaning, i have to go all the way to the end to access the commands. By then, the radial has moved across the screen. I don't know. Hard to explain here I guess.
2. When in fullscreen and I use Tweak, it brings up a floating window. I cant do any other operations other than tweak until I close the window. The last build, I could use tweak all day long and perform other operations.
I just noticed a fault with the snapping. You can't snap using 1 axis (or 2); it always snaps to the absolute coordinates of the target.
I have a few more requests after testing VW a bit more.
1. Loop Select Slide edges - holding G on an edge instantly slides a full loop. Accidental edge loop sliding can occur with this function the way it is; and is also duplicated by holding LMB.
2. The edge loop 'G' tool is a good idea but I think it gets slightly confusing. Edge loop slide should be just a simple function on it's own. The edge/poly loop/ring selection could be simplified thus; Select 1 edge/poly. The following selections could dictate the loop/ring style. a) Shift + double click adjacent component to select full loop/ring. b) Shift + double click a distant edge/poly to select Range. c) Ctrl + Shift double click for gap-loop select. Once selection is made the edge sliding can be performed. This way the mouse can be anywhere on the screen
3. Placing multiple functions on a single hotkey is a good idea unless it conflicts with a contradictory function. e.g with nothing selected and holding S will give you loop cut but with edges selected will collapse those edges. The fact that the resulting edges of the loop cut remain selected they can be accidentally collapsed if further quick loop cuts are required.
My personal opinion is that too much is being crammed onto each hotkey. It works in some instances but not all.
What would be interesting is if you gave users the ability to fully customise all hotkeys. i.e. open up the options to each mouse button in combination with hotkey. This would really give VW power and a huge advantage over all competition.
1 more quick thing before I quit for the night..
I there a raycast select method in VW. I can't seem to find an option for it.
[Elte]: Can't make the StreamlineEngine transparent. But I can make an option so it can stay visible all time.
Yeah, you can give me some viewport images and i'll give it a go.
[Kris]: I will make an option so you can have the previous radial menu style.
Not sure whats the problem with tweak tool. The behaviour is still the same. If the button Tweak tool is on, you can't do other operations. I guess the tweak tool you used before is the streamline tweak tool.
[ghib]: Not sure about the snapping fault. Do you mean it should can snap along 1 or 2 axis rather than all 3 axis?
1.I will disable the edge G tool's NMB function since it can cause accidental sliding.
2.The selection made by G tool has its advantages. You can create boolean selection with it if selection boolean keys are also pressed.
3.I will make the cut out edges as not selected in edge S tool.
The streamline tool mouse cutomizable is a big task, but I will look into that at some stage.
For raycast selection, use MMB for marquee selection.
[ghib]: Not sure about the snapping fault. Do you mean it should can snap along 1 or 2 axis rather than all 3 axis?
Yes this is exactly what I meant So, for instance, if you have vertex snapping on and you want to snap one vertex to another but only in the x & y axes you would just select the xy handle on the gizmo and snap.
1.I will disable the edge G tool's NMB function since it can cause accidental sliding.
Thanks for this, others may like this function though so it might be best to leave it as an option.
Also thanks for the other tips.
I have a couple more suggestions after testing this morning related to Viewport Navigation.
There's a small navigation tweak I'd like to see in VW. In Maya and 3DCoat there is an option to turn on 'tumble around point of interest' Meaning; regardless of having anything selected or having subobjects selected when you hold Alt + LMB it will rotate the view around the point on the mesh that lies directly under your mouse pointer.
Some people hate it but I can't live without it and is great when modelling and rotating around fingers and other areas of local detail that are off the model's main Pivot. If the mouse pointer is in free space then the viewport rotates around the selected model's Main Pivot and with nothing selected will rotate around the World origin.
Secondly, I noticed that you have snap the views to orthographic or perspective using Shift/Ctrl + Space. It would be useful if we could simply use this while holding Alt + LMB to quickly snap while rotating. No need then for Space. This is how Zbrush & 3DCoat have implemented viewport snapping and it works well. (Incidentally, is there a quick way to come out of Orthographic mode?)
Do you mean while Alt+LMB rotating view, press down Shift/Ctrl to snap view without exiting view rotation first? If not, please elaborate.
Currently there is no shortcut to toggle Perspective/Orthographic, I will make one.
yes this is how it currently works in zbrush and 3dCoat. I actually quite like how you have rotate view locked in Orthographic. (in 3ds Max it is not and drives me mad) A nice variation on this is seen in Silo's Orthographic views where Alt + LMB will rotate the view in a similar way as Photoshop or Corel Painter's rotate Canvas. It's freeform until it reaches a threshold at the 90degree angles where it will snap and lock.
I can think of no instance where I need to snap the view in Perspective mode (other's may disagree) so perhaps the Orthographic views remain locked until Ctrl is pressed to unlock it then released to further navigate in Perspective mode.
*edit* I've been playing around with the tweak tool (which is now set to Ctrl thanks) I noticed that the LMB MMB RMB functionality (move,rotate,scale) only works if you have components selected. This should also work with the pre-selection highlighting.
Also there is a slight inconsistency between the various components with the 'H' key for normal move. In my opinion there should only be 1 function for Local Move that works for all the components and whether geometry is selected or using pre-selection highlighting.
Actually my initial plan was to use alt+shift+lmb to 'lock' perspective into orthographic, but the issue is how do we get back to persp again? I agree with you rotate view in orthographic view drive me mad too and therefore I prefer no tumble in orthographic view. That's my reason I asked IStonia to use a toggle instead.
we're able to do it in zbrush because the camera is not really perspective anyway. I haven't seen how 3dcoat view snap was so couldn't comment on it.
There must be selection made for tweak tool to work with. The tweak move works in this way, if there is selection, it will move the selection. If there is no selection, when LMB down, the selection will be made and the selection will be dropped once the operation finished.
The normal move tool for vertex and polygon are different. for vertex normal move, it uses vertex's normal. For polygon, it is local move, the direction it uses is selection dependent. I prefer to keep it so user can have more options. I will create a component mode independent normal move tool so you use to normal move vertex/edge/polygon selected or hilighted.
There must be selection made for tweak tool to work with. The tweak move works in this way, if there is selection, it will move the selection. If there is no selection, when LMB down, the selection will be made and the selection will be dropped once the operation finished.
The normal move tool for vertex and polygon are different. for vertex normal move, it uses vertex's normal. For polygon, it is local move, the direction it uses is selection dependent. I prefer to keep it so user can have more options. I will create a component mode independent normal move tool so you use to normal move vertex/edge/polygon selected or hilighted.
This is how I would expect it to work also but in your latest release only unselected tweak with LMB works. MMB & RMB tweaking without a selection being made doesn't work but does work if the components are selected. Expected result- Tweak should work in all instances.
Am I right in saying that currently if you're in vertex mode the 'H' key moves the vertex along it's normal and in Poly mode it uses face normal? What about edges? would it use the average normal direction of the connecting vertices or something else? I'm glad you're working on a solution that encompasses all of the selection/component modes. The reason I brought this up is that it would be great if we could assign Ctrl + RMB to tweaking along normals on all component selections.
I just noticed something with the Streamline Engine Cut tool (which is absolutely fantastic btw.. cutting across multiple edges is so sweet) Is there any way you can think of that will allow you to rotate the viewport while using this tool. Currently it locks you out.
I love the solid predictive preview you get in the cut tool and I noticed while hovering somewhere in the middle of a poly it tries to predict a connection to a vertex. I think it would be highly useful if pressing MMB when you're happy with a result would connect to that final destination vertex but not actually place the mid poly vertex. (so you would get a solid edge between the last edge and the final vertex)
Also RMB could END your particular cut so you can start a new one.
Ghib's got a good point about the tools working with hilighted geometry. In silo I can use commands like inset scale, move along normals, slide, etc just like I do with tweak. That's why I bind all that stuff into the mouse, so I can have fast access to them and use them all the time as specialized tweak tools. When I don't need to be working on selections and just want to make lots of fast tweaks with constraints or without, silo allows for it. There's no forced "select first, then operate" hoops to jump through, unless I want to.
Your description of how tweak works sounds pretty much how silo does it - silo just does it for more tools than Tweak. At least that's how it looks when I'm working with it. A hilighted component becomes a selected component while tweaking, or doing any other operation that also works with hilighting, then dropped when you let go.
Absolutely James. I think the key to this app being a solid contender is consistency across all aspects of it's toolset. For instance, I just noticed that when in Vertex mode and pressing the 'G' key to open up slide options sometimes you will be able to slide the vertex past the terminating vertex and sometimes not. It seems to alternate between LMB, MMB, RMB. For edge sliding purposes it makes sense to me to stop sliding an edge or vertex or poly selection at the connecting end vertices.
I'll start writing up any bugs or problems I have with this app from now on instead of bombarding this thread
You can always do what I do for him and just make a video showing the bugs and comparisons in other apps. He sees it faster and can implement it or not better that way.
That's a good idea Kris. What are the best free capture tools these days? I used to use Camtasia a while back but I don't have it here at work. Also is it better to make a looping animated Gif? I tried a few free vid capture tools but they were awful.
Sorry I wouldn't recommend Jing, it's nice but streaming from certain country is painful. I would stick with camstudio and upload it to utube or vimeo instead. Found this one http://screenr.com/ but doubt it'll be as good as camstudio or camtasia. Anyway..let's get back to the topic
Summary of changes
* Edit > Customize Radial Menus.
* Edit > Radial Menu Options.
* Edit > SmartTips Options > Visible All time
* Edit > StreamLine Engine Options > Customize Tools. Streamline tool's mouse buttons can be remapped by user. The Tweak tool's pick style option no longer lives in the button Tweak tool's setting area. It can either be set in the streamline Tweak tool's own options or through a dedicated shortcut command. There are 35 extra streamline tools are added for user to assign commands through its events, they don't have fixed functions and their names can be modified. This is to provide the convenience to group a bunch of related commands and bind them under one hotkey combo. 25 of these 35 tools are mode sensetive so you only need to set a hotkey combo for every 5 tools. In other words, if you want to set up all these extra 35 tools, only 10 hotkey combos are needed.
* Snapping is improved again with single/double axis constraint.
* While view rotation tool is active, press down Shift/Ctrl key to toggle view snapping. It has the same effect as Shift/Ctrl + Space. Press down snap to directional view, press down again back to perspective.
* "Tumble around point of interest" implemented. [RedirectModifierKey(default:Caps) + Alt + LMB] to rotate view. If there is an object ray intercept point under cursor, the viewport will rotate around that point. If the cursor is in free space, the viewport rotates around the selected model's Main Pivot and with nothing selected will rotate around the world origin.
* Streamline tools no longer block view navigation, so after the tool's hot key is pressed down, user still can navigate the view as normal.
* Cut tool improved.. MMB to skip polygon point, RMB to do last cut and terminate.
* Streamline Tweak tool is improved. It can work with both selected and highlighted subobjects. Normal move function is added into Tweak tool and the mouse button is X2.
* A variation in streamline Tweak tool's scale function. +Shift will Scale in view plane 2D space.
* Some more prefernce settings are added.
Hi Kun, regarding the visible all time smarttips, is it possible to remove the 'delay'? For example when I switch from vertex to edge, it takes about 0.5 sec to change. Would be cool if it's constantly changes
Replies
But honestly that's not the priority yet, although could be planned for.
Regarding the UI overhaul plan, I agree with arshlevon. Qt is what big programs are using now (maya, nextlimit realflow/maxwell, and Lightwave Core). I'm not sure how you see it as a developer but I personally think it saves u lots of time rather than building the UI from scratch by your own.
http://qt.nokia.com/products/developer-tools/developer-tools?currentflipperobject=937ba3e952f85ef68ddbb7cb4b20fc19
My advice would be to be able to set the BG up regardless if its with the radial or hotkey or UI button, but once you have set the image in place and come out of the manipulative operations, the button should automatically be inactive. That way, if I set a BG image in the front view, I can automatically go to the left viewport and add another BG image without having to click the little BG button on the side of the screen.
Hope that makes sense.
It's just backwards in the perspective view, almost like its the back view or something.
Not sure what is the second issue, a pic would be cool.
Do you mean for your upcoming update? Because as of now, hitting B in the viewport will load the image and be accepted upon hitting ok, but using the radial BG keeps the BG button open. You have to leave fullscreen to click it.
As for the pic, I'm on another com now so I'll have to do that tomorrow.
1. The edge is selected on the left side of the mesh in both the front and left views, but in the perspective view, it's selected the right side. This is not simply because the viewport is rotated wrong, but its the mesh is backwards.
2. You'll see that the mesh in the left view is aligned with the nose, but in the perspective view, its going the opposite way, with the wrong side of the mesh selected.
3. Each time I try to select the edge in the perspective view, it gives me an error.
4. I thought it was selecting the wrong side because I had the setup wrong, but as soon as I rotate the mesh to align with the nose, its pointing the opposite way in the perspective.
So, I'm really not sure why it's crashing when I selecct an edge, or why it's selecting the opposite side of the mesh in the perspective. Hope this pic helps, not sure if it will.
I will check the code and see if I can find out the crashing bug. I doesn't happen in my computer so far. Does it happen often in yours? If thats the case, I can give you a debug version to check it down.
As for flipping it, the model's face is in the front view correctly, and it's her left side in the left viewport. It works this way in Maya and Silo when I try it the same way. Why do I have to flip it in VW? I always model heads with the nose pointing to the left.
If it's the correct viewports that correspond with the correct side of the model's head, then it should work correctly. Maybe I'm just used to the other apps. What I did instead was just used a right viewport instead of a left viewport and it works fine. Bit weird to be in the right viewport while working on the left side of her face but, hey, as long as it works
Also, how do I fix the viewplane.. meaning, when I zoom into my mesh in the front view, I can no longer see the mesh. I need to zoom into the areas of the face to model it, but the mesh disappears.
*nevermind, i just hit f6 and it fixes it.
Maybe in other app, in front view the z axis is pointing away from user as opposite to VW. That's the only explain I can think of.
Try F4 to Fit the object into view, this is to update the viewport camera to working space which is relative to the floor grid size. You don't have to do this, if you haven't changed the floor's scale value. Then try Ctrl+Alt+Shift+RMB click at the area you want to focus. The viewport camera's focusing point will be set to ray intersect point with the mesh. When you zoom in/out, the camera focusing point does not change so the geometry around it should be better visible than other areas.
I'd rather it never be shown in the viewport unless you need to bring it up and move it.
I think that if you could do that, it would be pretty cool too.
Why not focus on a different part of the pipeline, like a streamlined animation tool that exports to exchange formats like FBX/Collada..?
Bad Snowfly, bad! Now you go over in the corner and think about what you've done.
One modeler to rule them all.
I'm all for animation, but I use Maya. To me, that's the top-dog. If he wanted to make an animation package, then he would be competing with Messiah I think, which would not go too well.
At least with VW, we know that Silo is almost dead, Maya is clunky as a modeler (thanks to hotkeys, it's not too bad though), Modo is still wonky to me, but thats just an opinion. Max may be great but not everyone can afford major packages. Blender is free, but come on... that modeling toolset is crap compared to apps like Silo or even Wings3D for that matter. I wanted him to get funding to place VW's tools in Blender but he thought I was crazy
I say stay the course. VW is getting there.
I get so frustrated when I jump to other apps and don't have Silo's transparent way of manipulating geometry.
Silo
Ctrl + LMB = tweak (with Move,Rotate or Scale selected)
Ctrl + RMB = tweak Move along Normals
Shift + RMB = tweak Inset Scale
with these three things it's just so fluid when shoving things around.
*edit*
Great job with this tool btw, keep it up
To his credit, Istonia's pretty good at taking feedback even though it seems like he's being tugged in all different directions. I'll take the animation tools for a spin, and will check back and see if we can build on those as well.
Yeah. Just go to Edit > Customize Tools.. then scroll down to where you see Tweak and click the T. Select CTRL key from the popup.
Then you'll have to scroll up to where you see the Exclude Selection and add Alt to it. So that you have tweak be the Ctrl key, and exclude selection is CTRL ALT. Don't forget to apply the changes.
That's the way I set it up and it works fine.
ghib: Currently, your can move the tweak tool from T to Ctrl and remap the selection keys to [Shift = IncludingSelection] [shift+Alt = ExcludingSelection] [Ctrl+Shift = ToggleSelection]. The tweak tool works in this way [Ctrl+LMB=Move] [Ctrl+RMB=Rotate] [Ctrl+MMB]=Scale] so you don't have to rely on which manipulator being active.
I have the vertex and polygon H tool can do the normal move already. If it is neccessary, I can create a component independent normal move tool and set its key to Z so its near Alt key.
As for the [Shift+RMB = tweak Inset Scale], I am not sure what it is and also have a question: how can you do manipulating while Shift key is a selection control key?
The problem with Silo is that it started well but finished short of being the brilliant app it could be. Lack of smoothing groups, lack of useful modifiers like bend etc, wonky Numerical Editor, inconsistent snapping, unreliable symmetry, and a bunch of other poorly implemented features. I could go on all day... VoidWorld in the small time I've used it seems pretty solid already so I have high hopes for it.
IStonia & Kris: thanks a million for responding, I'll give this a go.
RE: [Shift+RMB = tweak Inset Scale] it doesn't interfere with the selection methods I have in Silo where:
LMB = Raycast select
Shift + LMB = Select Add
ALT + Shift + LMB = Select Subtract
MMB = Select Through
Shift + MMB = Select Through Add
Alt + Shift + MMB = Select Through Subtract
This leaves the Right Mouse button for other combinations of tools.
I'm very much with James Edwards in that everyone likes to work in different ways so adding full Mouse Customization is essential.
The full mouse customization will be available in the upcoming update.
Good to hear! Thanks for listening. =]
Summary of changes
* Radial menu is improved.
* When in full screen mode, if a button tool like BG Image is opened, the full sreen will maintain and the tool's setting controls will appear in a floating form.
* Lots hotkey shortcut tools are added. Please note that some tools' name ends with "#", that means it can work with Redirect Modifier Key (default key is Caps) to perform a similar/opposite action or to bring up an option dialog. eg. if you set [Ctr+L = Loop Insert], [Caps+Ctrl+L] will bring up the loop insert option dialog. Also please note that there are two groups of tools which don't have "#" in tool names but they also can work with Redirect Modifier Key. These two groups are primitive object creation tools and streamline tools.
Just my thought.
And just a fancy request, customizable viewport background (like gradient)
If you grant it I'll help you create presets of each software.
1. I honestly liked the old radial better. Why? Because I don't chase it across the screen... meaning, i have to go all the way to the end to access the commands. By then, the radial has moved across the screen. I don't know. Hard to explain here I guess.
2. When in fullscreen and I use Tweak, it brings up a floating window. I cant do any other operations other than tweak until I close the window. The last build, I could use tweak all day long and perform other operations.
I have a few more requests after testing VW a bit more.
1. Loop Select Slide edges - holding G on an edge instantly slides a full loop. Accidental edge loop sliding can occur with this function the way it is; and is also duplicated by holding LMB.
2. The edge loop 'G' tool is a good idea but I think it gets slightly confusing. Edge loop slide should be just a simple function on it's own. The edge/poly loop/ring selection could be simplified thus; Select 1 edge/poly. The following selections could dictate the loop/ring style. a) Shift + double click adjacent component to select full loop/ring. b) Shift + double click a distant edge/poly to select Range. c) Ctrl + Shift double click for gap-loop select. Once selection is made the edge sliding can be performed. This way the mouse can be anywhere on the screen
3. Placing multiple functions on a single hotkey is a good idea unless it conflicts with a contradictory function. e.g with nothing selected and holding S will give you loop cut but with edges selected will collapse those edges. The fact that the resulting edges of the loop cut remain selected they can be accidentally collapsed if further quick loop cuts are required.
My personal opinion is that too much is being crammed onto each hotkey. It works in some instances but not all.
What would be interesting is if you gave users the ability to fully customise all hotkeys. i.e. open up the options to each mouse button in combination with hotkey. This would really give VW power and a huge advantage over all competition.
1 more quick thing before I quit for the night..
I there a raycast select method in VW. I can't seem to find an option for it.
thanks
Yeah, you can give me some viewport images and i'll give it a go.
[Kris]: I will make an option so you can have the previous radial menu style.
Not sure whats the problem with tweak tool. The behaviour is still the same. If the button Tweak tool is on, you can't do other operations. I guess the tweak tool you used before is the streamline tweak tool.
[ghib]: Not sure about the snapping fault. Do you mean it should can snap along 1 or 2 axis rather than all 3 axis?
1.I will disable the edge G tool's NMB function since it can cause accidental sliding.
2.The selection made by G tool has its advantages. You can create boolean selection with it if selection boolean keys are also pressed.
3.I will make the cut out edges as not selected in edge S tool.
The streamline tool mouse cutomizable is a big task, but I will look into that at some stage.
For raycast selection, use MMB for marquee selection.
Thanks for this, others may like this function though so it might be best to leave it as an option.
Also thanks for the other tips.
I have a couple more suggestions after testing this morning related to Viewport Navigation.
There's a small navigation tweak I'd like to see in VW. In Maya and 3DCoat there is an option to turn on 'tumble around point of interest' Meaning; regardless of having anything selected or having subobjects selected when you hold Alt + LMB it will rotate the view around the point on the mesh that lies directly under your mouse pointer.
Some people hate it but I can't live without it and is great when modelling and rotating around fingers and other areas of local detail that are off the model's main Pivot. If the mouse pointer is in free space then the viewport rotates around the selected model's Main Pivot and with nothing selected will rotate around the World origin.
Secondly, I noticed that you have snap the views to orthographic or perspective using Shift/Ctrl + Space. It would be useful if we could simply use this while holding Alt + LMB to quickly snap while rotating. No need then for Space. This is how Zbrush & 3DCoat have implemented viewport snapping and it works well. (Incidentally, is there a quick way to come out of Orthographic mode?)
I'm loving this tool btw
Currently there is no shortcut to toggle Perspective/Orthographic, I will make one.
I can think of no instance where I need to snap the view in Perspective mode (other's may disagree) so perhaps the Orthographic views remain locked until Ctrl is pressed to unlock it then released to further navigate in Perspective mode.
*edit* I've been playing around with the tweak tool (which is now set to Ctrl thanks) I noticed that the LMB MMB RMB functionality (move,rotate,scale) only works if you have components selected. This should also work with the pre-selection highlighting.
Also there is a slight inconsistency between the various components with the 'H' key for normal move. In my opinion there should only be 1 function for Local Move that works for all the components and whether geometry is selected or using pre-selection highlighting.
thanks
we're able to do it in zbrush because the camera is not really perspective anyway. I haven't seen how 3dcoat view snap was so couldn't comment on it.
The normal move tool for vertex and polygon are different. for vertex normal move, it uses vertex's normal. For polygon, it is local move, the direction it uses is selection dependent. I prefer to keep it so user can have more options. I will create a component mode independent normal move tool so you use to normal move vertex/edge/polygon selected or hilighted.
This is how I would expect it to work also but in your latest release only unselected tweak with LMB works. MMB & RMB tweaking without a selection being made doesn't work but does work if the components are selected. Expected result- Tweak should work in all instances.
Am I right in saying that currently if you're in vertex mode the 'H' key moves the vertex along it's normal and in Poly mode it uses face normal? What about edges? would it use the average normal direction of the connecting vertices or something else? I'm glad you're working on a solution that encompasses all of the selection/component modes. The reason I brought this up is that it would be great if we could assign Ctrl + RMB to tweaking along normals on all component selections.
I just noticed something with the Streamline Engine Cut tool (which is absolutely fantastic btw.. cutting across multiple edges is so sweet) Is there any way you can think of that will allow you to rotate the viewport while using this tool. Currently it locks you out.
I love the solid predictive preview you get in the cut tool and I noticed while hovering somewhere in the middle of a poly it tries to predict a connection to a vertex. I think it would be highly useful if pressing MMB when you're happy with a result would connect to that final destination vertex but not actually place the mid poly vertex. (so you would get a solid edge between the last edge and the final vertex)
Also RMB could END your particular cut so you can start a new one.
cheers.
Your description of how tweak works sounds pretty much how silo does it - silo just does it for more tools than Tweak. At least that's how it looks when I'm working with it. A hilighted component becomes a selected component while tweaking, or doing any other operation that also works with hilighting, then dropped when you let go.
I'll start writing up any bugs or problems I have with this app from now on instead of bombarding this thread
http://camstudio.org/
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Nov-6.rar
Summary of changes
* Edit > Customize Radial Menus.
* Edit > Radial Menu Options.
* Edit > SmartTips Options > Visible All time
* Edit > StreamLine Engine Options > Customize Tools. Streamline tool's mouse buttons can be remapped by user. The Tweak tool's pick style option no longer lives in the button Tweak tool's setting area. It can either be set in the streamline Tweak tool's own options or through a dedicated shortcut command. There are 35 extra streamline tools are added for user to assign commands through its events, they don't have fixed functions and their names can be modified. This is to provide the convenience to group a bunch of related commands and bind them under one hotkey combo. 25 of these 35 tools are mode sensetive so you only need to set a hotkey combo for every 5 tools. In other words, if you want to set up all these extra 35 tools, only 10 hotkey combos are needed.
* Snapping is improved again with single/double axis constraint.
* While view rotation tool is active, press down Shift/Ctrl key to toggle view snapping. It has the same effect as Shift/Ctrl + Space. Press down snap to directional view, press down again back to perspective.
* "Tumble around point of interest" implemented. [RedirectModifierKey(default:Caps) + Alt + LMB] to rotate view. If there is an object ray intercept point under cursor, the viewport will rotate around that point. If the cursor is in free space, the viewport rotates around the selected model's Main Pivot and with nothing selected will rotate around the world origin.
* Streamline tools no longer block view navigation, so after the tool's hot key is pressed down, user still can navigate the view as normal.
* Cut tool improved.. MMB to skip polygon point, RMB to do last cut and terminate.
* Streamline Tweak tool is improved. It can work with both selected and highlighted subobjects. Normal move function is added into Tweak tool and the mouse button is X2.
* A variation in streamline Tweak tool's scale function. +Shift will Scale in view plane 2D space.
* Some more prefernce settings are added.
Thanks!
[ame]