wow, lots of fantastic changes. elte that bridge tool looks great, can see that coming in VERY handy. Also really loving the cut tool; very strong.
Thanks for working hard on this guys.
I'd like to give a little feedback on the changes:
Thanks for implementing the 'tumble around point of interest' Is it possible to have an option to turn it on permanently? If so, maybe pressing Caps will switch back to 'regular' way of rotating in viewport.
I can't seem to change the hotkey for Tweak to Ctrl
Snapping tool works great now. It's sometimes hard to tell exactly what it is snapping to. Would it be possible to have some kind of highlighting on the targeted component?
I haven't figuerd out how to set mouse customization for Tweak yet but will post when/if I do.
I still feel that H 'normal/local move' should be made 1 function that is context sensitive and that works for ALL components selected or pre-selected.
Vertex Normal move effect is somewhat weaker than the polygon local move. So you have to make many mouse movements to make the vertices move a short distance. (Perhaps a hotkey combination or mouse scroll wheel could alter the strength of movement +/-)
Pre-selection highlighting should work with the delete key. I think pre-selection is a tricky one to master in 3d apps as you want it to work immediately for some functions and not for others e.g. not for edge loop slide but yes for local move.
Overall I think this is a strong release. The Streamline Engine Options are a bit confusing right now but I'll get used to them.
Hey elte, I used a combination of Camstudio to capture and a program called Format Factory to convert to gif. They're both free and I think small animated gifs are good to show simple functions.
ghib: I think you may have tried to assign Ctrl key to the button tweak tool instead of the streamline Tweak tool. It works in my machine, but it does block some shortcut operations but not the undo redo ones. This is caused by the new codes, I will fix it.
Btw, thanks for the new feedbacks!
I just wonder why you still keep Tweak mapped to the T key when most of us switch it to the CTRL key. It seems you would just make this the default key so no one would have to remap it.
I mean, I'm not sure of the numbers, but if most everyone is changing it, then something tells me it should be the default. Therefore, if you just remapped Tweak to CTRL and a few other things to make it work, then no one would have to change anything -- except for other hotkeys.
This is maya's way btw, and t is also set to tweak in modo as well. I understand lots of ppl prefer ctrl, but if vw expand to other aspect than modeling, your suggestion might be reconsidered again, imho.
Kris: You and ghib are the only ones afaik that have said they remaped tweak to ctrl, hardly "most everyone". Either way imo alt/ctrl/shift should never be used for anything other then navigation and selection.
1.Every time you move to a new update, you can simply copy the [Media/AnimationDesign/User Settings] folder from the old version to the new version. You can also use the Export/Import features in each customizing forms.
2.If any one has setup a hotkey sets that is close to Max/Maya/Modo/Silo settings, I would like to adopt it as an option file to include into the pakage so users can load it at any time.
IStonia I had actually assigned the CTRL hotkey to the Streamline Tweak option, but I had forgotten to reassign 'exclude selection' as you'd earlier suggested so thanks for putting me straight. It did, however, highlight something in the hotkey editor.. Is it possible to assign a hotkey to multiple functions? I think this is why it didn't previously work; as Ctrl was used for both Tweak & exclude selection.
Two suggestions for the future of the hotkey editor;
A search tool would be very useful for finding functions. Especially if your toolset become vast.
For the Hotkey Editor & Steamline Engine Customize Tools to NOT take over VoidWorld while in use. It would make testing combinations and streamlining tools a lot easier if you could quickly make changes apply and try out in the scene.
Also..further suggestion.
I made a quick vid capture to show what I mean by
I still feel that H 'normal/local move' should be made 1 function that is context sensitive and that works for ALL components selected or pre-selected.
Local Move is assigned to a hotkey (in this case ctrl + RMB) that works for all components & soft-selection.
Cheers for listening. If I'm becoming too pushy you can tell me where to go
ghib: You have been very helpfull, so what else can I say, telling you to go to top of the moon?
Normally you can't assign different functions upon the same hotkey unless it is specially made, Tweak tool for example. In silo you may be able to do so, but in VoidWorld, the toolsets are different, some operations may work across mouse buttons, Cut tool for example.
Regarding the 2 suggestions about the Customize tools, I need more help. What kind of searches you may perform? what search parameters you use? what purporse for that? What methods I can use to perform customizing instead of launching the customizing form?
If I make another Streamline tool for nomal/local move purporse only and it can be assigned to Shift key and uses RMB, will you be happy?
Kris: You and ghib are the only ones afaik that have said they remaped tweak to ctrl, hardly "most everyone"
There are more users here than he and I that use CTRL for tweak. Everyone or not then, I guess this is what the people coming from Silo are used to. I would think a few other guys commenting here from the Silo forums do the same thing, and I'm sure they could back that up should they choose to reply about it. I know Modo uses the T key for Tweak; this is simply a case of what users are comfortable with from their previous package.
Just as much as it's your opinion about CTRL being only for navigational purposes, those from Silo will tell you that CTRL is pretty damn handy for Tweak. Opinions...well, that's what this thread is all about. Everyone voicing theirs and then Kun either implements it or doesn't.
Either way, it doesn't matter. I'll just copy over my prefs if I choose to new versions of VW if I choose to totally ditch Silo in the coming year.
What kind of searches you may perform? what search parameters you use? what purporse for that?
Apologies, I was really meaning a search function (or ability to begin typing the word of the function you look for and it will scroll down and highlight the 1st match) only within the hotkey editor.
An example in Softimage on left started typing XSI and on the right Polygon. You can see it jumped to the appropriate entry
Anyway this is one for the future, potentially.
What methods I can use to perform customizing instead of launching the customizing form?
I'm not sure how it works currently, but bringing up the hotkey editor locks down the app so you cannot perform any edits within the scene. Not even sure if it's possible to do it otherwise but it would be great if the hotkey editor behaved just like any other tool. By this I mean to NOT disrupt the workflow.
WHile I prefer the xsi way of customizing, I don't see it necessary at the moment because VW is currently focusing on the modeling and honestly there won't be too many commands and cluttered. I'd think the time would be better invested on making this app more stable and ready for production.
I absolutely agree; I was just thinking ahead and aloud.
I noticed a few more things:
I tried bringing into VW an obj file that consisted of several separate meshes in Softimage; is there an easy way to break up the mesh. In Silo there is an option to import 'Groups' as objects. You can see the result of this in the gif.
Import scale seems vastly different from Softimage, Silo, 3ds Max. Ideally the user would be able to set Import/Export scale factor in the obj options.
Softselection - pivot shouldn't move from actual selection when activated.
When the subdivision toggle is on the pre-selection cut doesn't show. It does show when you LMB.
Hi ghib: Thanks for the feedbacks.
1. In polygon mode, select all the polygons, click the Split button, choose 'Break into seperate meshes' option. Once done, goto mesh mode and open the 'Mesh List' tool, you should see the result meshes. In the same way, you can select all the meshes and hit the mesh Split button to split them into different objects.
2. Void World's default scale is a bit too big compare to other apps. But you can setup your own faverate scale. 'View > Floor Settings' to bring up the scale setting form, set your scale, hit the best fit button on left to adjust all the view cameras. This scale is part of the preference settings.
3. I will improve the pivot on softselection.
4. I would see if i can create pre-selection cut lines on subdivision mesh. but one thing for sure, the cut result won't be the same as highlighted.
[Edit]:When exporting to .obj, VW will group meshes into groups. When importing form .obj, VW will sort polygons by groups into meshes. This only happen if you use Save/Load scene functions.
1. In polygon mode, select all the polygons, click the Split button, choose 'Break into seperate meshes' option. Once done, goto mesh mode and open the 'Mesh List' tool, you should see the result meshes. In the same way, you can select all the meshes and hit the mesh Split button to split them into different objects.
I had initially tried the split function but noticed that it duplicates the polys rather than break them off the main mesh which is why I thought there was another function or one missing.
I think that having the concept of Meshes within Objects is very confusing, at least to a traditional 3d way of thinking. What are the advantages of this if you don't mind my asking?
It makes more sense to me as a visual artist to merely have Objects and the sub-objects (vertex, edge, polygon, shells) Shells should be parts of the mesh that have contiguous topology. The way it is setup in VW at the moment has created the unnecessary need for multiple functions (in the split /duplication tools).
Also I could find no way to split or break Polygons off to a completely separate Object. Here I used multiple combinations from the Split & Duplicate options. and you can see it's still part of the same Object.
The only way I could think to do it was to select the entire Mesh > Split > delete the parts that I didn't want to duplicate. Not a very efficient way of working you'll agree.
ghib: I don't understand why you hit the polygon Split button and 'it duplicates the polys rather than break them off the main mesh '. I think you may have hit the Duplicate button.
VW was initially build for animation and objects have hierarchy structure. The modeling feature was build on top of the animation framework so share the same structure feature. What's in my mind is, if I build a human head, I should treat the eye balls as part of the head instead of differnt objects. You may treat the eyeballs as shells, but when it comes to animation, you can't animate the eyeballs seperately or you may just leave it to the animators to sort it out. That's my thought, I am not an artist so likely i am incorrect.
If you select meshes and hit the mesh Split button, the selected meshes will be copied and splited out into seperate objects.
re: the animation thing - either the game engine supports multiple meshes being bound to the same skeleton (and all the ones I've worked with have) or at the final stage of modeling the artist merges all the separate objects together, retaining separate shells but being treated as one object. Being able to properly separate shells into discrete objects is an important thing to have.
As another Silo user I have to agree that I prefer tweak on Ctrl by default as well. It's just a handy key that's easily reachable for such a heavily-used feature. If it's user-configurable it doesn't really matter though, as long as using CTRL doesn't clash with anything such as viewport navigation.
I try to use racer445's logo for the splash screen, but the background all transparent. You can see that in the new update. Can you make a background for that? It doesn't have to be square, some biting effect could be nice.
* "tumble around point of interest" rotation style can be set as default view rotation style either via view radial menu or a dedicated shortcut. If it is set as default style, <b>Alt + RedirectModifierKey(default:Caps) + LMB</b> will rotate view in standard style.
* Snapping indication implemented.
* For shortcut tool or streamline tool customizing, the customize form runs parallel with the main application form. So the changes can be tested straight away in the scene without having to close the customize form.
* Manipulator's pivot is no longer affected by softselection changing.
* Edge S tool pre-cut highlight on subdivision mesh implemented. The highlight lines may not be correct in some cases When the base mesh has nonquad polygons, thus may missleading.
* 'Tweak Normal Move' streamline tool is added. Default key is Z, default operation mouse button is RMB.
* On app initial startup, a hotkey style option dialog will present so user can choose Maya style or Silo style. Hotkey style can also be changed through 'Edge > Reset Hotkey Style' menu.
Currently only settings for the 'Tweak', 'Tweak Normal Move' and selection tools are different between these two styles.
For Maya Style:
Tweak: T
Tweak Normal Move: Z + LMB
Include Selection: Ctrl + Shift
Exclude Selection: Ctrl
Toggle Selection: Shift
For Silo Style:
Tweak: Ctrl
Tweak Normal Move: Shift + RMB.
Include Selection: Shift
Exclude Selection: Alt + Shift (if use this, please press down Alt first. Otherwise, the nomal move tool will be activated and consequent Alt will result in view navigation)
Toggle Selection: Ctrl + Shift
* ..obj export/import scale factor added.
* Break into different object options are added into polygon Split/Duplicate tool.
The transparent splash screen looks nice as it is.. it could be placed in the center of the screen instead of the upper left side though. Not sure why there is a need for a splash screen at all but anyway. New update looks nice. I like the ability to switch to Silo at the beginning.
I haven't had a chance to play with it much due to work, but it's looking good.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Nov-16.rar
Summary of changes
* Right click to cancel on going modify action like transforming/extrude/etc. Some operations use RMB, in this case, hit the Action Cancel hotkey (Esc) instead.
* Hit Enter key to create primitives at cusor snapping point.
I'm really starting to love this tool so thanks for making it available.
It's great that you listen and implement suggestions here; you don't get that with Autodesk so it's very much appreciated.
A bit of feedback from Nov 16th release.
It all feels a bit more fluid in the navigation, snapping and tweaking. Thanks for releasing the Customize Tools from locking down VoidWorld; it's a small thing but already it feels a lot nicer to use. Was it a lot of work as I noticed a few of the other menus still lock VW down?
Primitive placement - MMB or pressing Q to auto complete Primitive placement would be desirable.
Primitive placement - to draw a primitive on objects based on the normal under the cursor.
Tweak doesn't work with splines (tweak should work consistently across the whole app I think)
Tweak should also work at the Object level. (for easy Move/Rotate in screen space/Scale of Objects) This will keep things consistent.
Switch edge colour - reverts back to white everytime app is started
Normal Move tool - Give option for users to change default movement of UP/DOWN to LEFT/RIGHT or both for the operation of this tool. This might be small thing but can lead to loss of flow with different methods between applications.
Normal Move tool - Is it possible to toggle on Multi selection whenever the hotkey is pressed? (I have Multi selection activate whenever I use the Tweak tool) Actually it'd be preferrable if there were options for all modes.
Loop select/slide Edges 'G' still selects and slides edges on key press resulting in undesirable movement of geometry. Desired result would be to operate on LMB.
Is it possible to turn off cycling through the different selection marquees every time Q is pressed. I tend to work with rectangle selection type every time and occasionally switch to others in specific circumstances). I have accidentally pressed Q multiple times and received the wrong selection marquee.
Thanks
I have been doing a lot of hardsurface mechanical modelling lately and I have a question about your thoughts on the future of this app. The toolset that you have in seems to be pretty solid but I'd love to see some more ways to manipulate/control the topology. Have you guys heard of/used Polyboost for max? It has some brilliant ideas that I think VW could really benefit from implementing. e.g http://www.polyboost.com/Images/Gifs/CurveLoop.gif
& http://www.polyboost.com/Images/Gifs/SpaceLoop.gif
ghib: When you notice any menus that need not to lock main app, please note them down and give me the list so I can fix them. It is difficult for me to check every menu since I am not fimiliar with workflow. As for the Polyboost you mentioned, I heard it before but never used it. I am not sure what's the difference between curveloop and spaceloop, they look the same to me, can you elaborate?
GrepD3: I will add a couple more .obj export/import options so you can have more control over the polygon grouping.
Hey e|te, I noticed this too when I 1st tried the normal move but I couldn't reproduce it so I didn't write the bug.
RE: curve loop/ space loop discussion. Here is my understanding of it; but I could be wrong.
The Space loop would keep the existing shape continuity but space the selected geometry evenly. I demonstrated this at the top with a circular example but the shape could be anything. I think the important thing here is to keep the existing shape but space things evenly.
The Curve loop would create an imaginary smooth curve between the selected points and place the geometry on it but keep the existing spacing.
I hope this helps explain. I'm a little bit fuzzy on the science behind it myself.
Also a spherize function on selected Geometry would be very handy.
p.s. I like the idea of holding q and move to quickly change selection methods.
Is there a way to select shells in VW? I can't seem to find a way.
In silo it's a simple procedure by double clicking on a shell in poly mode.
You can see here that the geometry is part of the same object but the teeth and eyes are separate disconnected shells. Silo will recognise this lack of connected geometry and the selection grow will continue until it is terminated.
*edit*
typical. As soon as I posted this I found the Grow Select function. My apologies. Actually it would still be nice to be able to double click on a single poly and have it activate 'full grow'
On the same concept of double clicking geometry it would speed things up if we could double click to select edge-rings/loops, partial & gap-loop.
So in this case single select 1st component, double click 2nd component.
To select full edge ring you would single select 1st edge & double click the immediately adjacent edge.
heh ghib your ring and loop select method has been proposed waaaaaaaay early in this thread, but now with your timelapse it will be much better understood. right now full loop is double click lmb, while full ring is double click mmb
heh ghib your ring and loop select method has been proposed waaaaaaaay early in this thread, but now with your timelapse it will be much better understood. right now full loop is double click lmb, while full ring is double click mmb
Just to clarify how that partial loop/ring works in silo - you are still using the double click functionality to select those loops, you just double click on the edge that you want the loop to terminate at. It's not a separate function requiring more keybinds like you see in other apps.
There should probably still be keyboard shortcuts for "select ring" and "select loop. " For example, I will select a horizontal edge, select one up the model from it a bit, call "select ring" to select all edges between them that are part of the same ring, then call "select loop."
-cut tool should split an edge in two (adding a vert in the middle) when only on edge is selected, and this should be applicable multiple time on an edge.
-edge ring should merge full ring and range ring into on function:
*When one edge is selected, on activation the tool should select the whole ring.
*When two edges (or more) are selected, the vw should find the shortest path between them and add the gaps to selection.
In silo it is done by shift double clicking the ending edge, and it's damn useful, the interactive way of doing it in vw is visualy confusing and error prone.
-Same goes for edge loop.
-This should also work for polygons.
+ In customization windows:
-If you want to change an hotkey, the "keyboard" windows does not get focus after appearing, you can't change the hotkey by typing on your keyboard without clicking the window first.
-When the dialog appears asking if you really want to assign a shortcut already assigned, it would be more standard with the question: "are you sure ?", and then click ok, clicking cancel everytime is contrary to standard in windows apps and weird.
-You can't have the customize tools windows open and call the preference windows (for example): it result in a conflict of focus and the last window can't be closed, resulting in a "lock" situation.
BTW, good call on the Customize Modeling StreamLine Engine Tools" (error spelling in the title btw), it's definetely cool to be able to further tweak the app behaviour..
* MMB/Q click will auto complete primitive placement. Q will also close the tool.
* Snap point normal can be utilized in primitive creation. if the snap point is from a spline, the spline tangent at that point will be used.
* Edge color is part of the preferences.
* Edge G tool's NMB (No Mouse Btutton) action removed.
* Selection marquee cycling by Q is no more. When the selection_mode tool Q is activated, the square marquee tool will be turned on if it is not on already. While the selection_mode tool's hotkey is still pressed down, the lasso tool will be used if try to create marquee selection.
* Manipulator's orientation on edge/vertex selection improved. The manipulator's X axis will point along average normal if the orientation > selection option is chosen.
* Two more .obj export/import options are added regarding polygon grouping.
* Edge Loop/Ring select functions
> whole loop: double LMB same edge.
> whole ring: double MMb same edge.
> range loop: LMB select first edge, double LMB second edge.
> gap loop: MMB select first edge, double LMB second edge.
> range ring: LMB select first edge, double MMB second edge.
> gap ring: MMB select first edge, double MMB second edge.
> expand loop: select a rang/gap loop, move cursor to hilight a grow indication edge, [LMB and hold then MMB]/[MMB and hold then LMB] to execute range/gap expanding.
* Polygon loop select functions
> whole shell: double MMB same polygon
> range loop: LMB first polygon then double LMB second polygon.
> gap loop: MMB first polygon then double LMB second polygon.
> expand loop: select a rang/gap loop, move cursor to highlight a grow indication polygon, [LMB and hold then MMB]/[MMB and hold then LMB] to execute range/gap expanding.
* Winform focusing problems are fixed.
* Edge break into half function is added into streamline Cut tool. On activation, if the attempt to cut between edges failed, the programe will attempt to break the selected edges into half. Some users may not like this, so an option is added for this tool to disable it.
* In default setting, Loop/Ring select commands are hooked onto the On Activated event of the edge/polygon streamline G/H tools, so they will attempt to create loop/ring selection base on existing selection when the relative tool is activated.
* Tweak_Normal_Move tool has been reworked. By default, it is multi-selection enabled.
* By default, VW uses cursor Up/Down movement to perform transforming for some tools. some other apps may use Left/Right movement. So a customize option is provided through Edit > Preference.
The new edge ring/loop selection are very welcome and work well, except for ring select, you can't form a path with it without selecting whole rings.
And loop select should be working like that for polygons.
I like the tool group addition in customize tools !
And thanks for edge break, very useful.
Also, Im not sure if its in already but I thought Id asked : what about anti-aliasing in the viewport ? I know it sounds like a small visual gadget BUT it really makes any 3D program more clear and nicer to use. It also makes complex scene easier to look at.
As a matter of fact, simply making sure that the program supports it throught the Nvidia control panel is enough. It might be doing that already ?
I always dislike anti aliasing in max or cleartype in windows, makes everything so fuzzy and blurry and I constantly feel like I need glasses. Would be interesting to know how many other people at polycount prefer it that way. Also I find that the AA-lines in max for example look rather thick.
The new edge ring/loop selection are very welcome and work well, except for ring select, you can't form a path with it without selecting whole rings.
And loop select should be working like that for polygons.
I like the tool group addition in customize tools !
And thanks for edge break, very useful.
BeatKitano: Can you explain what is the path forming from ring you talk about? Including the polygon style.
Btw, there is no anti-aliasing feature at the moment.
Changes are great, loop/ring selection works really well and marquee/lasso implementation is brilliant.
I can't seem to get the snap point normal on primitive creation working or
the new expand loop method.
A bit of feedback on the other changes.
G slide edges - there is some confusion now within this tool after the recent 'double-click selection method'. Currently as the tool stands there is no way to slide based on existing selections. I very rarely while modelling need to slide an entire edge loop and if I do I will usually double click select the entire loop then activate the edge slide tool. Would it be possible to change the LMB action on edge slide to 'Slide selected components'
Left/Right movement to perform transforming is inverted from what I'm used to in other apps. Movement to the right should give positive values and vice versa. Preferably give the user the option to change. Also I personally think that these tools should use both up/down & left/right at the same time Similar to how you have Alt + RMB setup. I think checkboxes as opposed to radio buttons in the options would work best to give maximum customisation.
○ Up/Down
○ Invert Up/Down
○ Left/Right
○ Invert Left/Right
Multi-selection should revert to whichever specific component is selected. This includes multi-selection on Shift. Currently adding to selections using Shift can be cancelled if the wrong component type is clicked. Reverting to single component selection based on what is currently selected will eliminate this problem.
ghib: I made a vid regarding the primitive and loop-expand functions. Hope that help.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_3KZA2T1PM[/ame]
The G + LMB is the only whole loop slide tool, so I should keep it. There is a selection slide tool already, V + MMB.
BeatKitano: Can you explain what is the path forming from ring you talk about? Including the polygon style.
Btw, there is no anti-aliasing feature at the moment.
Here's edge loop "pathing" (I don't know if a name exist for that, but i use it a ton when doing hard surface "freeform" modeling (it helps create shapes by beveling edges).
Here's two gifs explaining better I think:
About the poly part, well, it was really early here, don't know it works perfectly fine, you can ignore that ^^
Replies
Thanks for working hard on this guys.
I'd like to give a little feedback on the changes:
Overall I think this is a strong release. The Streamline Engine Options are a bit confusing right now but I'll get used to them.
Btw, thanks for the new feedbacks!
I mean, I'm not sure of the numbers, but if most everyone is changing it, then something tells me it should be the default. Therefore, if you just remapped Tweak to CTRL and a few other things to make it work, then no one would have to change anything -- except for other hotkeys.
@Kris, If we remap it to ctrl, can u suggest how the selection works?
Currently
shift+lmb toggle selection
ctrl+lmb subtract selection
shift+ctrl add selection
alt+lmb tumble viewport
This is maya's way btw, and t is also set to tweak in modo as well. I understand lots of ppl prefer ctrl, but if vw expand to other aspect than modeling, your suggestion might be reconsidered again, imho.
1.Every time you move to a new update, you can simply copy the [Media/AnimationDesign/User Settings] folder from the old version to the new version. You can also use the Export/Import features in each customizing forms.
2.If any one has setup a hotkey sets that is close to Max/Maya/Modo/Silo settings, I would like to adopt it as an option file to include into the pakage so users can load it at any time.
Two suggestions for the future of the hotkey editor;
Also..further suggestion.
I made a quick vid capture to show what I mean by
Local Move is assigned to a hotkey (in this case ctrl + RMB) that works for all components & soft-selection.
Cheers for listening. If I'm becoming too pushy you can tell me where to go
Normally you can't assign different functions upon the same hotkey unless it is specially made, Tweak tool for example. In silo you may be able to do so, but in VoidWorld, the toolsets are different, some operations may work across mouse buttons, Cut tool for example.
Regarding the 2 suggestions about the Customize tools, I need more help. What kind of searches you may perform? what search parameters you use? what purporse for that? What methods I can use to perform customizing instead of launching the customizing form?
If I make another Streamline tool for nomal/local move purporse only and it can be assigned to Shift key and uses RMB, will you be happy?
There are more users here than he and I that use CTRL for tweak. Everyone or not then, I guess this is what the people coming from Silo are used to. I would think a few other guys commenting here from the Silo forums do the same thing, and I'm sure they could back that up should they choose to reply about it. I know Modo uses the T key for Tweak; this is simply a case of what users are comfortable with from their previous package.
Just as much as it's your opinion about CTRL being only for navigational purposes, those from Silo will tell you that CTRL is pretty damn handy for Tweak. Opinions...well, that's what this thread is all about. Everyone voicing theirs and then Kun either implements it or doesn't.
Either way, it doesn't matter. I'll just copy over my prefs if I choose to new versions of VW if I choose to totally ditch Silo in the coming year.
Urm btw, we need a better splash screen. I'll start to do the mockup. Who cares to join?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1725586/crits/logo.png
An example in Softimage on left started typing XSI and on the right Polygon. You can see it jumped to the appropriate entry
Anyway this is one for the future, potentially.
I'm not sure how it works currently, but bringing up the hotkey editor locks down the app so you cannot perform any edits within the scene. Not even sure if it's possible to do it otherwise but it would be great if the hotkey editor behaved just like any other tool. By this I mean to NOT disrupt the workflow.
I think this would definitely work.
WHile I prefer the xsi way of customizing, I don't see it necessary at the moment because VW is currently focusing on the modeling and honestly there won't be too many commands and cluttered. I'd think the time would be better invested on making this app more stable and ready for production.
I noticed a few more things:
1. In polygon mode, select all the polygons, click the Split button, choose 'Break into seperate meshes' option. Once done, goto mesh mode and open the 'Mesh List' tool, you should see the result meshes. In the same way, you can select all the meshes and hit the mesh Split button to split them into different objects.
2. Void World's default scale is a bit too big compare to other apps. But you can setup your own faverate scale. 'View > Floor Settings' to bring up the scale setting form, set your scale, hit the best fit button on left to adjust all the view cameras. This scale is part of the preference settings.
3. I will improve the pivot on softselection.
4. I would see if i can create pre-selection cut lines on subdivision mesh. but one thing for sure, the cut result won't be the same as highlighted.
[Edit]:When exporting to .obj, VW will group meshes into groups. When importing form .obj, VW will sort polygons by groups into meshes. This only happen if you use Save/Load scene functions.
I think that having the concept of Meshes within Objects is very confusing, at least to a traditional 3d way of thinking. What are the advantages of this if you don't mind my asking?
It makes more sense to me as a visual artist to merely have Objects and the sub-objects (vertex, edge, polygon, shells) Shells should be parts of the mesh that have contiguous topology. The way it is setup in VW at the moment has created the unnecessary need for multiple functions (in the split /duplication tools).
Also I could find no way to split or break Polygons off to a completely separate Object. Here I used multiple combinations from the Split & Duplicate options. and you can see it's still part of the same Object.
The only way I could think to do it was to select the entire Mesh > Split > delete the parts that I didn't want to duplicate. Not a very efficient way of working you'll agree.
All you'd really need is-
VW was initially build for animation and objects have hierarchy structure. The modeling feature was build on top of the animation framework so share the same structure feature. What's in my mind is, if I build a human head, I should treat the eye balls as part of the head instead of differnt objects. You may treat the eyeballs as shells, but when it comes to animation, you can't animate the eyeballs seperately or you may just leave it to the animators to sort it out. That's my thought, I am not an artist so likely i am incorrect.
If you select meshes and hit the mesh Split button, the selected meshes will be copied and splited out into seperate objects.
As another Silo user I have to agree that I prefer tweak on Ctrl by default as well. It's just a handy key that's easily reachable for such a heavily-used feature. If it's user-configurable it doesn't really matter though, as long as using CTRL doesn't clash with anything such as viewport navigation.
http://www.isotropix.com/
[ame]
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Nov-12.rar
Summary of changes
* SmartTips timing behaviour improved.
* "tumble around point of interest" rotation style can be set as default view rotation style either via view radial menu or a dedicated shortcut. If it is set as default style, <b>Alt + RedirectModifierKey(default:Caps) + LMB</b> will rotate view in standard style.
* Snapping indication implemented.
* For shortcut tool or streamline tool customizing, the customize form runs parallel with the main application form. So the changes can be tested straight away in the scene without having to close the customize form.
* Manipulator's pivot is no longer affected by softselection changing.
* Edge S tool pre-cut highlight on subdivision mesh implemented. The highlight lines may not be correct in some cases When the base mesh has nonquad polygons, thus may missleading.
* 'Tweak Normal Move' streamline tool is added. Default key is Z, default operation mouse button is RMB.
* On app initial startup, a hotkey style option dialog will present so user can choose Maya style or Silo style. Hotkey style can also be changed through 'Edge > Reset Hotkey Style' menu.
Currently only settings for the 'Tweak', 'Tweak Normal Move' and selection tools are different between these two styles.
For Maya Style:
Tweak: T
Tweak Normal Move: Z + LMB
Include Selection: Ctrl + Shift
Exclude Selection: Ctrl
Toggle Selection: Shift
For Silo Style:
Tweak: Ctrl
Tweak Normal Move: Shift + RMB.
Include Selection: Shift
Exclude Selection: Alt + Shift (if use this, please press down Alt first. Otherwise, the nomal move tool will be activated and consequent Alt will result in view navigation)
Toggle Selection: Ctrl + Shift
* ..obj export/import scale factor added.
* Break into different object options are added into polygon Split/Duplicate tool.
Thanks!
I haven't had a chance to play with it much due to work, but it's looking good.
while you do something like moving verts or alike, you can rightclick and the transformation is resetted and canceled.
so, its like an instant undo...
i thought u might be interested in adding such a feature...
keep it up, nice work, very impressive!
also, on my win 7 64 Bit the splash screen wasnt transparent, but green in the background!
Just a small update.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Nov-16.rar
Summary of changes
* Right click to cancel on going modify action like transforming/extrude/etc. Some operations use RMB, in this case, hit the Action Cancel hotkey (Esc) instead.
* Hit Enter key to create primitives at cusor snapping point.
Thanks!
It's great that you listen and implement suggestions here; you don't get that with Autodesk so it's very much appreciated.
A bit of feedback from Nov 16th release.
It all feels a bit more fluid in the navigation, snapping and tweaking. Thanks for releasing the Customize Tools from locking down VoidWorld; it's a small thing but already it feels a lot nicer to use. Was it a lot of work as I noticed a few of the other menus still lock VW down?
Thanks
I have been doing a lot of hardsurface mechanical modelling lately and I have a question about your thoughts on the future of this app. The toolset that you have in seems to be pretty solid but I'd love to see some more ways to manipulate/control the topology. Have you guys heard of/used Polyboost for max? It has some brilliant ideas that I think VW could really benefit from implementing. e.g
http://www.polyboost.com/Images/Gifs/CurveLoop.gif
&
http://www.polyboost.com/Images/Gifs/SpaceLoop.gif
Thanks again for all the hard work.
I also want to echo my appreciation for this tool. The more I use VW the more I'm impressed with the ease of use so far.
GrepD3: I will add a couple more .obj export/import options so you can have more control over the polygon grouping.
Isn't the pivot in these selection should be like the one in bottom left?
Played around with orientation and pivot position, couldnt get desired result.
also the normal move seems to move with undesired result, shouldn't it be parallel to the normal?
in maya its set to normal average mode.
How bout q for rectangular marquee selection, hold q and move cursor for lasso?
RE: curve loop/ space loop discussion. Here is my understanding of it; but I could be wrong.
The Space loop would keep the existing shape continuity but space the selected geometry evenly. I demonstrated this at the top with a circular example but the shape could be anything. I think the important thing here is to keep the existing shape but space things evenly.
The Curve loop would create an imaginary smooth curve between the selected points and place the geometry on it but keep the existing spacing.
I hope this helps explain. I'm a little bit fuzzy on the science behind it myself.
Also a spherize function on selected Geometry would be very handy.
p.s. I like the idea of holding q and move to quickly change selection methods.
In silo it's a simple procedure by double clicking on a shell in poly mode.
You can see here that the geometry is part of the same object but the teeth and eyes are separate disconnected shells. Silo will recognise this lack of connected geometry and the selection grow will continue until it is terminated.
*edit*
typical. As soon as I posted this I found the Grow Select function. My apologies. Actually it would still be nice to be able to double click on a single poly and have it activate 'full grow'
On the same concept of double clicking geometry it would speed things up if we could double click to select edge-rings/loops, partial & gap-loop.
So in this case single select 1st component, double click 2nd component.
To select full edge ring you would single select 1st edge & double click the immediately adjacent edge.
Dagnabbit how did I not notice that, it's the exact same in Silo. thanks for the tip.
btw it's not timelapse; I'm just that fast :poly124:
Just to clarify how that partial loop/ring works in silo - you are still using the double click functionality to select those loops, you just double click on the edge that you want the loop to terminate at. It's not a separate function requiring more keybinds like you see in other apps.
-cut tool should split an edge in two (adding a vert in the middle) when only on edge is selected, and this should be applicable multiple time on an edge.
-edge ring should merge full ring and range ring into on function:
*When one edge is selected, on activation the tool should select the whole ring.
*When two edges (or more) are selected, the vw should find the shortest path between them and add the gaps to selection.
In silo it is done by shift double clicking the ending edge, and it's damn useful, the interactive way of doing it in vw is visualy confusing and error prone.
-Same goes for edge loop.
-This should also work for polygons.
+ In customization windows:
-If you want to change an hotkey, the "keyboard" windows does not get focus after appearing, you can't change the hotkey by typing on your keyboard without clicking the window first.
-When the dialog appears asking if you really want to assign a shortcut already assigned, it would be more standard with the question: "are you sure ?", and then click ok, clicking cancel everytime is contrary to standard in windows apps and weird.
-You can't have the customize tools windows open and call the preference windows (for example): it result in a conflict of focus and the last window can't be closed, resulting in a "lock" situation.
BTW, good call on the Customize Modeling StreamLine Engine Tools" (error spelling in the title btw), it's definetely cool to be able to further tweak the app behaviour..
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Nov-22.rar
Summary of changes
* The reported crash bug is fixed.
* MMB/Q click will auto complete primitive placement. Q will also close the tool.
* Snap point normal can be utilized in primitive creation. if the snap point is from a spline, the spline tangent at that point will be used.
* Edge color is part of the preferences.
* Edge G tool's NMB (No Mouse Btutton) action removed.
* Selection marquee cycling by Q is no more. When the selection_mode tool Q is activated, the square marquee tool will be turned on if it is not on already. While the selection_mode tool's hotkey is still pressed down, the lasso tool will be used if try to create marquee selection.
* Manipulator's orientation on edge/vertex selection improved. The manipulator's X axis will point along average normal if the orientation > selection option is chosen.
* Two more .obj export/import options are added regarding polygon grouping.
* Edge Loop/Ring select functions
> whole loop: double LMB same edge.
> whole ring: double MMb same edge.
> range loop: LMB select first edge, double LMB second edge.
> gap loop: MMB select first edge, double LMB second edge.
> range ring: LMB select first edge, double MMB second edge.
> gap ring: MMB select first edge, double MMB second edge.
> expand loop: select a rang/gap loop, move cursor to hilight a grow indication edge, [LMB and hold then MMB]/[MMB and hold then LMB] to execute range/gap expanding.
* Polygon loop select functions
> whole shell: double MMB same polygon
> range loop: LMB first polygon then double LMB second polygon.
> gap loop: MMB first polygon then double LMB second polygon.
> expand loop: select a rang/gap loop, move cursor to highlight a grow indication polygon, [LMB and hold then MMB]/[MMB and hold then LMB] to execute range/gap expanding.
* Winform focusing problems are fixed.
* Edge break into half function is added into streamline Cut tool. On activation, if the attempt to cut between edges failed, the programe will attempt to break the selected edges into half. Some users may not like this, so an option is added for this tool to disable it.
* In default setting, Loop/Ring select commands are hooked onto the On Activated event of the edge/polygon streamline G/H tools, so they will attempt to create loop/ring selection base on existing selection when the relative tool is activated.
* Tweak_Normal_Move tool has been reworked. By default, it is multi-selection enabled.
* By default, VW uses cursor Up/Down movement to perform transforming for some tools. some other apps may use Left/Right movement. So a customize option is provided through Edit > Preference.
Thanks!
And loop select should be working like that for polygons.
I like the tool group addition in customize tools !
And thanks for edge break, very useful.
Also, Im not sure if its in already but I thought Id asked : what about anti-aliasing in the viewport ? I know it sounds like a small visual gadget BUT it really makes any 3D program more clear and nicer to use. It also makes complex scene easier to look at.
As a matter of fact, simply making sure that the program supports it throught the Nvidia control panel is enough. It might be doing that already ?
Anyways, cant wait to play with it!
BeatKitano: Can you explain what is the path forming from ring you talk about? Including the polygon style.
Btw, there is no anti-aliasing feature at the moment.
I can't seem to get the snap point normal on primitive creation working or
the new expand loop method.
A bit of feedback on the other changes.
Thanks
[ame]
The G + LMB is the only whole loop slide tool, so I should keep it. There is a selection slide tool already, V + MMB.
Here's edge loop "pathing" (I don't know if a name exist for that, but i use it a ton when doing hard surface "freeform" modeling (it helps create shapes by beveling edges).
Here's two gifs explaining better I think:
About the poly part, well, it was really early here, don't know it works perfectly fine, you can ignore that ^^
Can we request mod or admin to make this thread stickied? I think it deserves attention and more involvement from PC members.