ghib,
your description of the current state matches my impression. You among just very few others seem to have an overview what all is inside the App and accessible under which conditions. I found great if you guys really could devote some time of concentrated work to wire this mess back together. No idea how that could work, but I was willing to donate to make this happen.
On Keyboard Shortcuts: Of course I don't want anything to get removed here but
the Complexity created through Customizability is a matter I believe has to get addressed too. At least some serious Documentation has to take place! The Help Entries on the Streamline-Engine do not help me. I guess you are one of the very few people here who really understands how the normal Hotkeys and this Streamline Engine work together.
I guess I'm just a different kind of modeler than a couple of you, because most of my models are game related, and I make extensive use of the: Polygon Tool, Retopo tool, Edge Tools, and mostly Tweaking, Move, Rotate, Scale, Cut, Extrude, and Primitives sometimes, Stuff like this is all you really need to make a decent game ready model, and last time I checked all of these tools were working perfectly, especially now that you can start and finish a new poly in an empty scene, and / or use vert tools create / insert or edge -> retopo, polygon -> create poly.. Several ways to accomplish the same task, but sometimes this is good, because it allowed me to make my own retopo tool, that can be activated in anymode via streamline tool, and it first switches to poly mode then starts create poly simply by hitting the letter "M" works out pretty good.. Less time since you don't have to first click on poly tools then create poly or vice versa, I guess this is the reason for 3 ways to do same thing though huh, so no matter what mode your in, you can make a new poly..
Anyways, sorry I didn't finish tutorial yesterday, I got roped into a cake walk last minute and was stuck until 10:00pm last night.. I am back on it today.. I printed a fresh new copy of the latest hotkeys, and am reviewing so I can teach people different ways to do same thing, as I did in the first tutorial..
Ciao' IStonia, Please don't let these people bring you down..
PS: PolyXo - If you didn't notice I wasn't blaming Silo for 3rd party UI Problems, I was blaming them for having a sucky default one, to where I had no choice but to seek out a customized 3rd party interface..
Ciao' IStonia, Please don't let these people bring you down..
StOrM3
Sorry? I didn't realise we were brining Kun down; more under the impression that we were giving up our valuable time to give feedback and help him release a rock solid modelling tool.
If it is the former then I'd like to hear it from Kun himself and I won't waste another minute giving him a 'hard time'
p.s.
polyxo: Thanks but I have to say I'm still learning how to harness the power of these tools and I still learn from others around here all the time. I don't think I've actually gone through all the options yet. Sometimes it just takes some fresh eyes on the subject.
and this is when you realize how different your workflow is from others.
it only took me about 30min to get all keys and streamline tools setup how i like, and since that i had no issues with keys, and tools. and issues like tools not working when a subd level is up i never had a problem with either since i tend to model at the base level and and only preview or tweak verts in subd mode.
about the keys and streamline tools, i could put my configs up for people to use, it is heavily based on the default silo 2 setup, with some changes and improvements.
and this is when you realize how different your workflow is from others.
it only took me about 30min to get all keys and streamline tools setup how i like, and since that i had no issues with keys, and tools. and issues like tools not working when a subd level is up i never had a problem with either since i tend to model at the base level and and only preview or tweak verts in subd mode.
about the keys and streamline tools, i could put my configs up for people to use, it is heavily based on the default silo 2 setup, with some changes and improvements.
This is a great idea, I think you and I do alot of the same type of modeling, and have the same type of experiences with the app, this is also why I'm not understanding all the problems users have with the interface.. I have added some streamline tools & hotkey setups, I would be interested in seeing if you did the polygon tool different from me, have you tried making some anymode tools yet? So you can always do things like add polygons, and tweaking, etc.. no matter what mode your in..?? I too will try to share some of the changes I've made to config's and I wish there was a way to save menu / toolbar default layouts, I find my tabbed UI Layout to be the most convenient and if you need more room there's always the F5 and the option to make it hide all toolbars on fullscreen, HOTKEY MUSTS: <CTRL> -> Tweak | of course: W,E,R | X - Paint Select (I always am in this mode) | C - Cut | A - Extrude | M - All Modes - ReTopo / Create Poly Any Mode Stream Tool (LMB Tool -> Polygon Tools >> Polygon_Create, Events: On Activated: Common Modeling Shortcut Tools >> Switch to Polygon Mode, Options: top 2 checked, can b activated when visual tool is on, allow tapped to stay live, turn this last one off if you don't want sticky behavior, its nice, and just have to hit escape to turn the tool off..
I will post more hints along with my latest tutorial when done.... I hope we can help each other out like this, alot of the other stuff is Silo 2 Specific, as I find new Silo things from the Silo Modeling book I bought, I check for Equiv. in VW, if different I try to work it in.. but I'm open to other things, as long as they don't overwrite or change default silo 2 hotkeys..
You know what might be kewl, create another hotkey setup, and a way to instantly activate those hotkeys, then switch back to default ones, like then you could create a set for Poly Modeling, one for Sub-D, One for Soft Selection Sculpting type stuff, or one for different display angles, materials, selections etc.. and like + / - to switch through them like the button pages in Silo I think the default mapping for switching button pages is ~ or that is what I have it set to.. Could make UI / Hotkey combos like button pages.. and swich between just as easy.. Like Radial Menus & Hotkeys & maybe even the default tools, like one for Visual tools or Manipulators etc.. Hmmm.. I think I'm on the verge of an epic idea to sort all this out.. Have to think some more, and make some notes, and try some tool creations and stuff..
memag: I agree, I never meant any of this to get so negative.. I was trying to nudge people to help out IStonia, with configs, UI Customs, Streamline tools, etc.. that is all I meant, I just didn't want IStonia to feel like he had to keep changing the UI, when people can try different tools out by making their own tool setups, and then making their own streamline tools also..
Anyways.. Cheers, lets all have some fun modeling and just love the fact we have a free modeling app, that rivals all the others, including imho blender -> not that blender isn't good, it's just that I am sooooo confused with it's interface, there's an app that is mature and could definitely use a UI complete overhaul.. They mixed up too many things into one interface and because of this, NOT any one this is Easy / or good to use.. at least that's how I feel.. If I could figure out how to display poly modeling tools inside blender that would be great, but there are too many other buttons etc.. on the screen that have nothing to do with poly modeling or even modeling, like animation, or game creation etc.. which confuses the new user, and I tried I really did, I forced myself to use it for a few days, and I just couldn't do it.. I just don't want to see VW suffer the same UI fate, with so many feature req's pouring in to do everything but cut the lawn.. ehhehe..
OK, I'm done, now can't we all just be friends ;') ehehehe BTW: the tutorial is coming along, I'm just trying to find best / easiest way to do the head creation, so the user doesn't have to learn too many different things, and end up taking way longer than it should.. I started with the Hat first from a Cylinder, extruded faces to bill of had, then retopo'd from bottom edges of hat for sides of face, it worked pretty good, but I think now that you can just start with a poly in an empty scene I might start straight on the face.. and do the whole thing in poly / tweak mode, roughing out say forehead first, then tweak to ensure it looks correct in 3D, then poly's around eye gap similar to Glen's alien head tutorial in silo.. It's hard with my daughters drawing, as the head is kind of irregular, but it's important to me to use her drawing, since she is helping me with the game, and she's only 8... so just hang in there with me..
just drop them in your ~/Documents\DigitalFossils\VoidWorld folder
here is a screen of what my default looks like.
most of keys for tools are the same as silo, with a few exceptions, and some of the less used functions are still on there default keys or i just access them via the pie menu.
i also added a shortcut to the tools pie menu like maya with shift+rmb i have a lot of the UI hidden but most of it can be brought back up with control+alt key commands, like control+alt+e for the scene editor or control+alt+m for materials.
the setup is far from complete i tend to tweak things as i go.
oh and not to confuse people i got ride of the toggle selection key on shift, i just use shift to add and control to remove from selection.
after doing some high poly modeling i have been trying to take advantage of the object library, and have noticed there is a lot of animation stuff still there and some broken export formates that can be accessed via it.
think it may make sense to comment out all the animation stuff in VW to give it a faster start time for now while the focus is on poly and subd modelling, and smooth interaction.
Update: added a new symmetry streamline tool to my configs, haven't got the final key setup yet but im using Y for now.
pretty easy to use hold Y and scroll up to cycle threw the symmetry planes, use the side buttons on the mouse to toggle symmetry and the symmetry plane on and off.
RMB mirror over the negative and welds, and MMB mirror over the positive and welds.
LMB in edge mode with a edge selection uses that edge to calculate symmetry, and LMB in Vertex Mode uses the 2 verts method to calculate symmetry.
im going to find a better place for the tool at somepoint, but i really do like how it works much faster than using the pie menus.
Many thanks for posting your settings! Can on also set something up which lets you quickly access the full command-options if need be?
In Silo I have Z to Extrude without visible Editor, but if I realize that I need to switch from per Selection to per Polygon or so I can quickly pop up the Commands full options with Ctrl+Shift Z and change settings for the current command. I've set it up this way for all commands in Silo. Doable in VW too?
Saw some fights here. Sometimes it's a good way for people to know each other better though if they forgive one another afterwards.
We all have a common goal that is to bring the app to a point where it is truely comfortable and reliable. The difference is where exactly is the point. Some people don't like the app get too crowded by trivial tools, others may get if the tools they like are not included. Customizing is a good way to solve this. But customization brings in another layer of complexity. So, difficult...
When user places a feature request, he just simply expresses his wishes and doesn't have to know how difficult it could be. I set the priority base on the importance, difficulty and sometimes my personal feeling. If I don't have a clear idea how to do it, I will put it asside. I won't say I can't do it as ideas may come out of blue at any time. I won't say I will do it either, because I may never be able to figure out the way.
polyxo: I thought you have known the strealine tools pretty well already. Any way, here are some of the summary of normal hotkey tools and streamline tools.
They are similar. Streamline tools actually evolved from normal hotkey tools and they can do what hotkey tools can do with same efficiency except they can't be used for flag function or view navigation.
* Streamline Tools: 1. Can execute multiple commands. 2.can be used to organize multiple tools under one hotkey. 3. Can perform complex operations. 4. behaviours can be customized. 5. Hotkey can be shared with selection boolean hotkeys. 6. Can be context sensitive.
* Noraml hotkey tools: 1. Can execute one or two(if used with Redirect hotkey) commans. 2. Can serve as flag fuction like boolean selection flags and the marquee selection inverse flag you suggested months ago. 3. Used for view naviation tools.
passerby: The animation stuff won't take much time. Mesh process is the one that takes time.
@polyxo ya that is possible, i dont need to do it much so when i need a visual tool in my setup i just use the pie menu for tools shfit+RMB.
and you could always bind the visual tools to the control+shift+z but if you want to take advantage of the features of VW and the streamline engine you could edit the streamline tools and maybe add a option to launch the visual equivalent using one of the extra mouse buttons like the side buttons.
like hold z for the extrude streamline tool and hit mouse5 to activate the visual version of it.
and a other option yet would be to use the redirect, like with cap lock off keys function like normal streamline tools, but with cap lock on have it redirect to the visual versions.
the redirect is already setup for almost all streamline tools so holding cap lock and hitting z would give you the visual extrude, and you could always rebind the Redirect Modifer to control+shift to make it work like you have it in silo.
@Kun It seems like the bevel across mirrored center is working now. So I'm not sure what was going on. I'll let you know if it happens again.
I will make some videos to explain what I meant by my earlier posts/comments. In fact, I will just make videos from now on, instead of going into long descriptions. Then you can save them and get to them whenever you'd like.
Ciao' IStonia, Please don't let these people bring you down..
there are alot of industry professionals here. folks in that situation tend to be less concerned with pampering peoples emotions and more driven to make VW a great tool.
You can see how far VW has come because Kun isnt precious about his ideas and is willing to listen to folks with large amounts of experience.
polyxo: Bay works for Valve so I guess he lives in Bellevue, WA
I installed this update, when I rotate the scene it jumps .
I will try to explain There are now 2 grids, I can only turn off one and it isn't the one I like, can they be alternated as to which one is showing ?
I am looking at a grid (I am looking at the top), when I rotate the scene the grid rotates a little then jumps and I am now looking at the bottom,
is that normal ?
How do I stop it ?
I installed this update, when I rotate the scene it jumps .
I will try to explain There are now 2 grids, I can only turn off one and it isn't the one I like, can they be alternated as to which one is showing ?
I am looking at a grid (I am looking at the top), when I rotate the scene the grid rotates a little then jumps and I am now looking at the bottom,
is that normal ?
How do I stop it ?
Thanks in advance
in my config, f12 enables and disables the workplane, f11 is for the grid and f10 is for the symmetry plane.
Thanks a ton for the config Passerby. I told Joe to give you a hug for me when he gets into work today.
ya NP it's isn't exactly like silo since parts of it did evolve and come from other apps i use and some things i just added and made myself like the snapping and symmetry tools but it should at atleast make a silo user feel at home having the same keys for most tools, and most of the changes are improvements over silo functionality, such as the loop cut in VW being a far superior and faster to use tool.
All of the posts have seemed to died off ??? Not sure why, or if it is just on my end not displaying any of the newer posts, can anyone else confirm this?
All of the posts have seemed to died off ??? Not sure why, or if it is just on my end not displaying any of the newer posts, can anyone else confirm this?
philem, That's the WorkPlane
Edit > Workplane > (uncheck) Visible
I have been playing around with the workplane and I find it very useful, I am also a big fan of the Radial Menus.
Is it possible to add the Workplane Group to the Radial Menus like the "Common Tools," "Selections," "Views," etc.
I have been playing around with the workplane and I find it very useful, I am also a big fan of the Radial Menus.
Is it possible to add the Workplane Group to the Radial Menus like the "Common Tools," "Selections," "Views," etc.
i really jsut want to have it so you can make your own radial menus, and be able to make them with 2 to 8 slots in them instead of just 8.
when i get time, im going to make some example videos of some features and UI enhancements, using other apps like modo, and maya etc and talk about possible ways it these enhancements could be used in VW.
should make things easy to follow especially if i give examples of why and how i use these various features.
i really jsut want to have it so you can make your own radial menus, and be able to make them with 2 to 8 slots in them instead of just 8.
when i get time, im going to make some example videos of some features and UI enhancements, using other apps like modo, and maya etc and talk about possible ways it these enhancements could be used in VW.
should make things easy to follow especially if i give examples of why and how i use these various features.
Sounds good, looking forward to the vids, I need all the help I can get :poly136:
My apologies, I am always on the prowl for tutorials or anything to help me get a grip with the programme.
you really need to just get to the point where you know enough to get by and just experiment and figure the rest out as you go. Once you get to a certain point you will find tutorials to be a hindrance and not very helpful or a time strain at best. I and most other people on this forum already know enough about modeling in general that they can take and apply there knowledge to any 3d package and get good results and be able to create what they had in mind.
Once you know enough about actual 3d modeling and not the applications you will be able to find uses for features in the applications you use that are meaning full to your workflow.
for most things you do in 3d there is no right or wrong way to go about something, as long as it works in the end.
I couldn't agree more with passerby on this. Learning tutorials to the letter isn't that helpful in the long run. I think it's more useful to learning application independent tutorials instead i.e. modelling theory.
I had a bit of a revelation when someone 1st introduced me to the 'The Pole' on subdivisionmodeling.com. It just clicked.
you really need to just get to the point where you know enough to get by and just experiment and figure the rest out as you go. Once you get to a certain point you will find tutorials to be a hindrance and not very helpful or a time strain at best. I and most other people on this forum already know enough about modeling in general that they can take and apply there knowledge to any 3d package and get good results and be able to create what they had in mind.
Once you know enough about actual 3d modeling and not the applications you will be able to find uses for features in the applications you use that are meaning full to your workflow.
for most things you do in 3d there is no right or wrong way to go about something, as long as it works in the end.
My problem is trying to learn the actual programme, I come from a Hexagon background although I am by far not an expert, I have dabbled with Wings, Silo and Blender.
I see lots of comments on forums asking why is Blender so hard to learn, the UI is crap etc:.
I don't believe it is hard to learn the same as most programmes, the learning problem is remembering all the hotkeys or what certain tools do.
I have the same problem with VW at the moment, I am frustrated that I am struggling to learn the actual programme, the documentation is not quite the best, if you look at the Tutorial on page 1 its really only 1/2 there.
So when I mention that I am eager for tutorials it is to learn the programme and all of its nuances.
I don't specifically want a tutorial that I can follow parrot fashion, but a tutorial that will show a particular tool and what it does and why you would use it.
I got me head around the instancing tool and am confident that I could do a Tut on that specific tool, but I would be helping someone who doesn't know, people with the knowledge wouldn't look at it.
I get the impression that my basic questions about the programme seem to prickle some members here and that I am wasting time when they want to programme to progress (as I do).
So maybe I will taper back and and keep working on the programme and see what happens.
I think you're feeling some prickles because this thread is mainly focused on product feedback, and less on learning like you said. But since this is really the only thread on VW, where else would you ask those questions right?
Anyway, ghib is right, "The Pole" thread is a great reference for learning how to puzzle your face loops. I tried to find it for ya, but it seems the website is down. I found a sweet PDF of the highlights. :poly124:
Also, Glen Southern has made a bunch of modeling tutorials that are really simple to follow. I would suggest learning how to model in Silo, then coming back to VW when you are more comfortable.
Lastly, if you decide to stick with VW (because you know it's going to be the modeling app of the future) and have basic questions, feel free to PM me if you don't want to bother Kun or the rest of the thread. I'd be happy to answer your questions if I can.
Here is my modeling setup, if your curious about my perfect modeling computer setup along with the P-Active 19" LCD Tablet Monitor front and Center... This is what I'm using during the tutorials..
I hope everyone learns something from the tutorials, that is the whole reason I'm spending time late at night to do these for the VW Community.. More to come, not tonight, have to visit my little girls principle in the morning, but tomorrow night for sure..
I think you're feeling some prickles because this thread is mainly focused on product feedback, and less on learning like you said. But since this is really the only thread on VW, where else would you ask those questions right?
Anyway, ghib is right, "The Pole" thread is a great reference for learning how to puzzle your face loops. I tried to find it for ya, but it seems the website is down. I found a sweet PDF of the highlights. :poly124:
Also, Glen Southern has made a bunch of modeling tutorials that are really simple to follow. I would suggest learning how to model in Silo, then coming back to VW when you are more comfortable.
Lastly, if you decide to stick with VW (because you know it's going to be the modeling app of the future) and have basic questions, feel free to PM me if you don't want to bother Kun or the rest of the thread. I'd be happy to answer your questions if I can.
Cheers,
-ShaneO
Hi 3dtoons
I guess I lost sight on the fact that this thread is about feedback to make VW a great modelling app.
I will take you up on the offer of help, I do want to learn the programme and as this, as you have said is the only thread, and I don't want to bother Kun or the rest of the thread with basic questions.
I also tried to look for "The Pole" thread but no joy.
I have a copy of Silo on my laptop so will follow your suggestion and learn that as I go along with VW.
I'm more than willing to help out, as are alot of others on this forum.. All you have to do is ask, and if you don't want to post to the forum, then you can pm us on here also.. Alright, I'm up early enough today, so I will try and finish the head on the model tutorial, before the wife or kids get home later.. So, keep an eye out for the rest of those as well.. I hope this helps out..
I have a forum setup on my site, but after a while they get taken over by the adware spammers, anyone know what the best forum software to use is, as far as secure, to stop them from creating ficticious accounts, and spamming it?
I have a forum setup on my site, but after a while they get taken over by the adware spammers, anyone know what the best forum software to use is, as far as secure, to stop them from creating ficticious accounts, and spamming it?
just use a good captcha system iv used smf vbulltine and got a few drupal sites going with open registration fine with out things getting taken over by spammers, use recpatcha on both, and i olny get the odd bot that gets threw every few weeks that i have to ban.
I was thinking about going with drupal, I was looking at the site for it.. I've used VBulletin in the past and smf, and both versions got hammered, of course that was with older versions, and of course the vbulletin was the ummm traded version off of irc.. Thanks for the info about recpatcha, will look into it..
I intended to set it up using digitalfossils.com domain with kun permission but apparently its control panel isn't very user friendly.
From my experience, fluxbb seems to be most suitable to run a forum like this. ITs lightweight and fast to access. vbulletin is the best of course but you gotta pay unfortunately.
I was thinking about going with drupal, I was looking at the site for it.. I've used VBulletin in the past and smf, and both versions got hammered, of course that was with older versions, and of course the vbulletin was the ummm traded version off of irc.. Thanks for the info about recpatcha, will look into it..
Ciao' 4 now,
StOrM3
ya i wouldn't go near drupal for a forum system just for CMS and sites in general for free the best i think you will get is fluxbb that elite mentioned and SMF
An official forum with broken out topic groups would go a long ways. I know that's the last thing Kun wants to deal with right now, so if we could figure something out, even temporarily that we can move later, that would be great.
An official forum with broken out topic groups would go a long ways. I know that's the last thing Kun wants to deal with right now, so if we could figure something out, even temporarily that we can move later, that would be great.
k what sections would you like.
im just going to make a quick and dirty forum system on a subdomain of my domain. and get a few sections in. Thinking i will use SMF for now and if we move to a new server or different system it shouldn't be too hard to export everything out from the DB.
I think we should keep it simple to begin with, so it doesn't look like a ghost town. Here is my suggested list (with obvious descriptions)
1) News and Updates <- Posts made by IStonia when he releases new updates
2) Community Help <- This is where we can ask questions of other users
3) Feature Requests <- This is where we can request new features
4) Report Bugs <- This is where we can report bugs
5) General Discussion <- Discuss whatever
I think we should keep it simple to begin with, so it doesn't look like a ghost town. Here is my suggested list (with obvious descriptions)
1) News and Updates <- Posts made by IStonia when he releases new updates
2) Community Help <- This is where we can ask questions of other users
3) Feature Requests <- This is where we can request new features
4) Report Bugs <- This is where we can report bugs
5) General Discussion <- Discuss whatever
Cheers,
-ShaneO
k will make it up tonight.
obviously for now im not going to bother writing a new css style for it or anything like that but it will function at least.
Replies
your description of the current state matches my impression. You among just very few others seem to have an overview what all is inside the App and accessible under which conditions. I found great if you guys really could devote some time of concentrated work to wire this mess back together. No idea how that could work, but I was willing to donate to make this happen.
On Keyboard Shortcuts: Of course I don't want anything to get removed here but
the Complexity created through Customizability is a matter I believe has to get addressed too. At least some serious Documentation has to take place! The Help Entries on the Streamline-Engine do not help me. I guess you are one of the very few people here who really understands how the normal Hotkeys and this Streamline Engine work together.
Anyways, sorry I didn't finish tutorial yesterday, I got roped into a cake walk last minute and was stuck until 10:00pm last night.. I am back on it today.. I printed a fresh new copy of the latest hotkeys, and am reviewing so I can teach people different ways to do same thing, as I did in the first tutorial..
Ciao' IStonia, Please don't let these people bring you down..
PS: PolyXo - If you didn't notice I wasn't blaming Silo for 3rd party UI Problems, I was blaming them for having a sucky default one, to where I had no choice but to seek out a customized 3rd party interface..
StOrM3
Sorry? I didn't realise we were brining Kun down; more under the impression that we were giving up our valuable time to give feedback and help him release a rock solid modelling tool.
If it is the former then I'd like to hear it from Kun himself and I won't waste another minute giving him a 'hard time'
p.s.
polyxo: Thanks but I have to say I'm still learning how to harness the power of these tools and I still learn from others around here all the time. I don't think I've actually gone through all the options yet. Sometimes it just takes some fresh eyes on the subject.
I think both, customers and Istonia, have a right to speak their mind and make demands.
I agree with ghib.
it only took me about 30min to get all keys and streamline tools setup how i like, and since that i had no issues with keys, and tools. and issues like tools not working when a subd level is up i never had a problem with either since i tend to model at the base level and and only preview or tweak verts in subd mode.
about the keys and streamline tools, i could put my configs up for people to use, it is heavily based on the default silo 2 setup, with some changes and improvements.
I would be interested in trying out your configs.
This is a great idea, I think you and I do alot of the same type of modeling, and have the same type of experiences with the app, this is also why I'm not understanding all the problems users have with the interface.. I have added some streamline tools & hotkey setups, I would be interested in seeing if you did the polygon tool different from me, have you tried making some anymode tools yet? So you can always do things like add polygons, and tweaking, etc.. no matter what mode your in..?? I too will try to share some of the changes I've made to config's and I wish there was a way to save menu / toolbar default layouts, I find my tabbed UI Layout to be the most convenient and if you need more room there's always the F5 and the option to make it hide all toolbars on fullscreen, HOTKEY MUSTS: <CTRL> -> Tweak | of course: W,E,R | X - Paint Select (I always am in this mode) | C - Cut | A - Extrude | M - All Modes - ReTopo / Create Poly Any Mode Stream Tool (LMB Tool -> Polygon Tools >> Polygon_Create, Events: On Activated: Common Modeling Shortcut Tools >> Switch to Polygon Mode, Options: top 2 checked, can b activated when visual tool is on, allow tapped to stay live, turn this last one off if you don't want sticky behavior, its nice, and just have to hit escape to turn the tool off..
I will post more hints along with my latest tutorial when done.... I hope we can help each other out like this, alot of the other stuff is Silo 2 Specific, as I find new Silo things from the Silo Modeling book I bought, I check for Equiv. in VW, if different I try to work it in.. but I'm open to other things, as long as they don't overwrite or change default silo 2 hotkeys..
You know what might be kewl, create another hotkey setup, and a way to instantly activate those hotkeys, then switch back to default ones, like then you could create a set for Poly Modeling, one for Sub-D, One for Soft Selection Sculpting type stuff, or one for different display angles, materials, selections etc.. and like + / - to switch through them like the button pages in Silo I think the default mapping for switching button pages is ~ or that is what I have it set to.. Could make UI / Hotkey combos like button pages.. and swich between just as easy.. Like Radial Menus & Hotkeys & maybe even the default tools, like one for Visual tools or Manipulators etc.. Hmmm.. I think I'm on the verge of an epic idea to sort all this out.. Have to think some more, and make some notes, and try some tool creations and stuff..
memag: I agree, I never meant any of this to get so negative.. I was trying to nudge people to help out IStonia, with configs, UI Customs, Streamline tools, etc.. that is all I meant, I just didn't want IStonia to feel like he had to keep changing the UI, when people can try different tools out by making their own tool setups, and then making their own streamline tools also..
Anyways.. Cheers, lets all have some fun modeling and just love the fact we have a free modeling app, that rivals all the others, including imho blender -> not that blender isn't good, it's just that I am sooooo confused with it's interface, there's an app that is mature and could definitely use a UI complete overhaul.. They mixed up too many things into one interface and because of this, NOT any one this is Easy / or good to use.. at least that's how I feel.. If I could figure out how to display poly modeling tools inside blender that would be great, but there are too many other buttons etc.. on the screen that have nothing to do with poly modeling or even modeling, like animation, or game creation etc.. which confuses the new user, and I tried I really did, I forced myself to use it for a few days, and I just couldn't do it.. I just don't want to see VW suffer the same UI fate, with so many feature req's pouring in to do everything but cut the lawn.. ehhehe..
OK, I'm done, now can't we all just be friends ;') ehehehe BTW: the tutorial is coming along, I'm just trying to find best / easiest way to do the head creation, so the user doesn't have to learn too many different things, and end up taking way longer than it should.. I started with the Hat first from a Cylinder, extruded faces to bill of had, then retopo'd from bottom edges of hat for sides of face, it worked pretty good, but I think now that you can just start with a poly in an empty scene I might start straight on the face.. and do the whole thing in poly / tweak mode, roughing out say forehead first, then tweak to ensure it looks correct in 3D, then poly's around eye gap similar to Glen's alien head tutorial in silo.. It's hard with my daughters drawing, as the head is kind of irregular, but it's important to me to use her drawing, since she is helping me with the game, and she's only 8... so just hang in there with me..
Thanks for everything guys,
StOrM3 aka Ken
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2360554/Fourms%20Stuff/Void%20World/User%20Settings.zip
just drop them in your ~/Documents\DigitalFossils\VoidWorld folder
here is a screen of what my default looks like.
most of keys for tools are the same as silo, with a few exceptions, and some of the less used functions are still on there default keys or i just access them via the pie menu.
i also added a shortcut to the tools pie menu like maya with shift+rmb i have a lot of the UI hidden but most of it can be brought back up with control+alt key commands, like control+alt+e for the scene editor or control+alt+m for materials.
the setup is far from complete i tend to tweak things as i go.
oh and not to confuse people i got ride of the toggle selection key on shift, i just use shift to add and control to remove from selection.
@Kun
after doing some high poly modeling i have been trying to take advantage of the object library, and have noticed there is a lot of animation stuff still there and some broken export formates that can be accessed via it.
think it may make sense to comment out all the animation stuff in VW to give it a faster start time for now while the focus is on poly and subd modelling, and smooth interaction.
Update: added a new symmetry streamline tool to my configs, haven't got the final key setup yet but im using Y for now.
pretty easy to use hold Y and scroll up to cycle threw the symmetry planes, use the side buttons on the mouse to toggle symmetry and the symmetry plane on and off.
RMB mirror over the negative and welds, and MMB mirror over the positive and welds.
LMB in edge mode with a edge selection uses that edge to calculate symmetry, and LMB in Vertex Mode uses the 2 verts method to calculate symmetry.
im going to find a better place for the tool at somepoint, but i really do like how it works much faster than using the pie menus.
In Silo I have Z to Extrude without visible Editor, but if I realize that I need to switch from per Selection to per Polygon or so I can quickly pop up the Commands full options with Ctrl+Shift Z and change settings for the current command. I've set it up this way for all commands in Silo. Doable in VW too?
We all have a common goal that is to bring the app to a point where it is truely comfortable and reliable. The difference is where exactly is the point. Some people don't like the app get too crowded by trivial tools, others may get
When user places a feature request, he just simply expresses his wishes and doesn't have to know how difficult it could be. I set the priority base on the importance, difficulty and sometimes my personal feeling. If I don't have a clear idea how to do it, I will put it asside. I won't say I can't do it as ideas may come out of blue at any time. I won't say I will do it either, because I may never be able to figure out the way.
polyxo: I thought you have known the strealine tools pretty well already. Any way, here are some of the summary of normal hotkey tools and streamline tools.
They are similar. Streamline tools actually evolved from normal hotkey tools and they can do what hotkey tools can do with same efficiency except they can't be used for flag function or view navigation.
* Streamline Tools: 1. Can execute multiple commands. 2.can be used to organize multiple tools under one hotkey. 3. Can perform complex operations. 4. behaviours can be customized. 5. Hotkey can be shared with selection boolean hotkeys. 6. Can be context sensitive.
* Noraml hotkey tools: 1. Can execute one or two(if used with Redirect hotkey) commans. 2. Can serve as flag fuction like boolean selection flags and the marquee selection inverse flag you suggested months ago. 3. Used for view naviation tools.
passerby: The animation stuff won't take much time. Mesh process is the one that takes time.
and you could always bind the visual tools to the control+shift+z but if you want to take advantage of the features of VW and the streamline engine you could edit the streamline tools and maybe add a option to launch the visual equivalent using one of the extra mouse buttons like the side buttons.
like hold z for the extrude streamline tool and hit mouse5 to activate the visual version of it.
and a other option yet would be to use the redirect, like with cap lock off keys function like normal streamline tools, but with cap lock on have it redirect to the visual versions.
the redirect is already setup for almost all streamline tools so holding cap lock and hitting z would give you the visual extrude, and you could always rebind the Redirect Modifer to control+shift to make it work like you have it in silo.
I will make some videos to explain what I meant by my earlier posts/comments. In fact, I will just make videos from now on, instead of going into long descriptions. Then you can save them and get to them whenever you'd like.
Thanks for sharing your UI's guys!
-ShaneO
there are alot of industry professionals here. folks in that situation tend to be less concerned with pampering peoples emotions and more driven to make VW a great tool.
You can see how far VW has come because Kun isnt precious about his ideas and is willing to listen to folks with large amounts of experience.
polyxo: Bay works for Valve so I guess he lives in Bellevue, WA
now control+shift+streamline key will bring up the visual version of the tool
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2360554/Fourms%20Stuff/Void%20World/User%20Settings.zip
I installed this update, when I rotate the scene it jumps .
I will try to explain
I am looking at a grid (I am looking at the top), when I rotate the scene the grid rotates a little then jumps and I am now looking at the bottom,
is that normal ?
How do I stop it ?
Thanks in advance
Edit > Workplane > (uncheck) Visible
Sorry for the dumb question, only I have never seen this before..
+1 in modo you can change all the workplane settings independent of the grid floor, colours, spacing opacity.
ya NP it's isn't exactly like silo since parts of it did evolve and come from other apps i use and some things i just added and made myself like the snapping and symmetry tools but it should at atleast make a silo user feel at home having the same keys for most tools, and most of the changes are improvements over silo functionality, such as the loop cut in VW being a far superior and faster to use tool.
Looks like its still active (if you can see this)
I have been playing around with the workplane and I find it very useful, I am also a big fan of the Radial Menus.
Is it possible to add the Workplane Group to the Radial Menus like the "Common Tools," "Selections," "Views," etc.
i really jsut want to have it so you can make your own radial menus, and be able to make them with 2 to 8 slots in them instead of just 8.
when i get time, im going to make some example videos of some features and UI enhancements, using other apps like modo, and maya etc and talk about possible ways it these enhancements could be used in VW.
should make things easy to follow especially if i give examples of why and how i use these various features.
Sounds good, looking forward to the vids, I need all the help I can get :poly136:
that was more for kun to better explain features that could possible be added.
but if you give me suggestions on what your trying to do i could do some mini tuts.
prolly will take awhile though working 2 jobs right now and trying to move to a new place so a bit busy ATM.
My apologies, I am always on the prowl for tutorials or anything to help me get a grip with the programme.
you really need to just get to the point where you know enough to get by and just experiment and figure the rest out as you go. Once you get to a certain point you will find tutorials to be a hindrance and not very helpful or a time strain at best. I and most other people on this forum already know enough about modeling in general that they can take and apply there knowledge to any 3d package and get good results and be able to create what they had in mind.
Once you know enough about actual 3d modeling and not the applications you will be able to find uses for features in the applications you use that are meaning full to your workflow.
for most things you do in 3d there is no right or wrong way to go about something, as long as it works in the end.
I had a bit of a revelation when someone 1st introduced me to the 'The Pole' on subdivisionmodeling.com. It just clicked.
My problem is trying to learn the actual programme, I come from a Hexagon background although I am by far not an expert, I have dabbled with Wings, Silo and Blender.
I see lots of comments on forums asking why is Blender so hard to learn, the UI is crap etc:.
I don't believe it is hard to learn the same as most programmes, the learning problem is remembering all the hotkeys or what certain tools do.
I have the same problem with VW at the moment, I am frustrated that I am struggling to learn the actual programme, the documentation is not quite the best, if you look at the Tutorial on page 1 its really only 1/2 there.
So when I mention that I am eager for tutorials it is to learn the programme and all of its nuances.
I don't specifically want a tutorial that I can follow parrot fashion, but a tutorial that will show a particular tool and what it does and why you would use it.
I got me head around the instancing tool and am confident that I could do a Tut on that specific tool, but I would be helping someone who doesn't know, people with the knowledge wouldn't look at it.
I get the impression that my basic questions about the programme seem to prickle some members here and that I am wasting time when they want to programme to progress (as I do).
So maybe I will taper back and and keep working on the programme and see what happens.
My apologies to all.
I think you're feeling some prickles because this thread is mainly focused on product feedback, and less on learning like you said. But since this is really the only thread on VW, where else would you ask those questions right?
Anyway, ghib is right, "The Pole" thread is a great reference for learning how to puzzle your face loops. I tried to find it for ya, but it seems the website is down. I found a sweet PDF of the highlights. :poly124:
Also, Glen Southern has made a bunch of modeling tutorials that are really simple to follow. I would suggest learning how to model in Silo, then coming back to VW when you are more comfortable.
Lastly, if you decide to stick with VW (because you know it's going to be the modeling app of the future) and have basic questions, feel free to PM me if you don't want to bother Kun or the rest of the thread. I'd be happy to answer your questions if I can.
Cheers,
-ShaneO
the next 3 parts of my tutorial are up!!! More to come...
[ame]
[ame]
[ame]
There ya go, Hope you like them, more to come soon..
ciao' 4 now,
StOrM3
I hope everyone learns something from the tutorials, that is the whole reason I'm spending time late at night to do these for the VW Community.. More to come, not tonight, have to visit my little girls principle in the morning, but tomorrow night for sure..
Thanks 4 Everything IStonia,
StOrM3
Hi 3dtoons
I guess I lost sight on the fact that this thread is about feedback to make VW a great modelling app.
I will take you up on the offer of help, I do want to learn the programme and as this, as you have said is the only thread, and I don't want to bother Kun or the rest of the thread with basic questions.
I also tried to look for "The Pole" thread but no joy.
I have a copy of Silo on my laptop so will follow your suggestion and learn that as I go along with VW.
And I will stick with VW
I'm more than willing to help out, as are alot of others on this forum.. All you have to do is ask, and if you don't want to post to the forum, then you can pm us on here also.. Alright, I'm up early enough today, so I will try and finish the head on the model tutorial, before the wife or kids get home later.. So, keep an eye out for the rest of those as well.. I hope this helps out..
StOrM3
just use a good captcha system iv used smf vbulltine and got a few drupal sites going with open registration fine with out things getting taken over by spammers, use recpatcha on both, and i olny get the odd bot that gets threw every few weeks that i have to ban.
Ciao' 4 now,
StOrM3
From my experience, fluxbb seems to be most suitable to run a forum like this. ITs lightweight and fast to access. vbulletin is the best of course but you gotta pay unfortunately.
ya i wouldn't go near drupal for a forum system just for CMS and sites in general for free the best i think you will get is fluxbb that elite mentioned and SMF
k what sections would you like.
im just going to make a quick and dirty forum system on a subdomain of my domain. and get a few sections in. Thinking i will use SMF for now and if we move to a new server or different system it shouldn't be too hard to export everything out from the DB.
1) News and Updates <- Posts made by IStonia when he releases new updates
2) Community Help <- This is where we can ask questions of other users
3) Feature Requests <- This is where we can request new features
4) Report Bugs <- This is where we can report bugs
5) General Discussion <- Discuss whatever
Cheers,
-ShaneO
k will make it up tonight.
obviously for now im not going to bother writing a new css style for it or anything like that but it will function at least.
http://voidworld.cmcproductions.co.uk/
as users register i will add people as admin such as istonia and regulars.
ya if istonia joins up and continues his release and news posts there it should pickup fine.
when i have time i actully want to make a full website and re-theme those fourms to replace what he has on digitalfossiles.com right now.