How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • lukx
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    lukx polycounter lvl 3
    How on earth I can model this thing knot cushion? 

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    @lukx I'd suggest spline or curve modelling too visualise that shape, there's a ton of online resource material to reference so make an attempt and see how you go :)

    EDIT:

    Re-post if you run into issues.

  • LouisPhilippe
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    LouisPhilippe polycounter lvl 2
    I'm trying to place the watch along this path. I don't want to use path deform because i dont want to deform the individual elements. I tried to use a path constraint but all the pieces lose their initial location and are all placed at the same place.
    I would love to know if somebody has a solution for this.

  • somedoggy
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    somedoggy greentooth
    personally i'd just spend a few mins rotating each piece until the watch band is closed.

    if you really need it to follow a spline you can do a SplineIK but you need to rig it up with bones, and start off with a straight line which you bend into the desired circle
  • Jdhart3d
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    Jdhart3d polycounter lvl 3
    How would you model this in High poly... i don't know why im struggling with something so basic =/ halp!


  • Jdhart3d
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    Jdhart3d polycounter lvl 3
    yay, Thanks to polycount i figured out how to do this =o    Thank you so much for being a resource from the collective MeshMindset!  

    1. posted question
    2. spent time reading wiki
    3. found videos of subdiv hard surface modeling techniques
    4. found Arrimus 3D
    5. Thank you PC<3


  • Hoodelali

    Help! How do I model this simple thing please !

    The left part, the "gut" part. I was thinking about using a square as primitive then deleting the top face and make the square a very long rectangle, add lots of loop cuts and finally bevel then solidify, but the curve part is really problematic, It seem to lack precision big time and it's a mechanical part.

    Anyone would have an idea? Maybe only model modules of it and then assemble them? The U turns and straight lines






  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    @Hoodelali Usually, free form or 'on the fly' modeling would invariably be a method too output an object, especially if ortho refs are not available so what you've suggested I'd say give those workflows a try and see if 'eyeballing' the specific details you had pin pointed captures a near enough 1:1 comparison.
  • Jantaaa
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    Jantaaa polycounter lvl 6
    Hi polycounters :) 

    I am struggling with the topology of corners on my hardsurface jet model with subd modifier having some unwanted bumpiness on the model. Jet is supposed to have partially organic look, but with few of the hard edges here and there. Similar feel to how F35 lightning have it. 

    Question is: How to achieve the smoothness with your topology the proper way?


  • Zoddo
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    Zoddo node
    @Jantaaa Your problem is that you have two edge loops really close to eachother. To solve this smoothing issue, make sure that the vertices on the corner of the outer edge are away from the corner. This way you give subdivision more space to smooth it out.

    Hope this helps

    Edit:
    When doing subdivision modelling and you encounter problems. Try to adjust your meshflow by simply sliding a vertices away along an edge, and thus you can see what it does to the smoothing.
  • Jantaaa
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    Jantaaa polycounter lvl 6
    @Zoddo
    Thank you for your quick response! Forgot to mention, that I use Blender, but this is more like a general topology question, anyway.

    Having the edges close to each other was just partially the problem, but it helped a little. Actually, main problem was that, some vertexes, especially in the corner, were creating uwanted edge (bump), and I had to smooth it along X axis manually, but with the proportion editing on. I tried it without proportion editing tool, and it looked just more bulky. Having overall more even spacing in the corner and smoother edgeflow helped me to achieve what I wanted. 




    Still gotta way to smooth it out a little, but I think, that I understand it a little better now :) 
    One fundamental rule I "forgot",  having the wireframe cage being as close as possible to the subdivided end result, was the key.  

    Thx for help :)
  • Zoddo
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    Zoddo node
    @Jantaaa No problem, I was waiting for GIT so had some time to check out the forums.
    I am glad you could get a better result than you had previously and that you managed to get things working by yourself!

    As of always from my experience when it comes to smoothing, it's always editing and tweaking the meshflow to solve problems like these. Sometimes increasing your subdiv amount also helps, that's why in Max I OpenSubDiv about 3 times.

    I also learned that with subdivision modelling, you never want to have edges too close to eachother as it can result in unwanted smoothing. Unless you want a sharp edge ofcourse, but there are better solutions for that like CreaseSets and smoothing groups.
  • scottwillats
    So this a little weird and out of the subject area, forgive me...

    Imagine I have a compound curve mesh like a bowl and the walls of the bowl have a varying thickness. Say I wanted to unfold this bowl flat, as one would for papercraft, but wanted to retain the thickness of the walls. Is there a software, a script, anything at all, that could unwrap the outer surface (like a UV unwrap) and retain this varying distance (height) topology between the outer and the inner surface, so that once folded back up, the varying thickness of the bowl is retained?

    The screenshot is a manual version of what I'm looking to do automatically. The inner surface of the bowl's wall is made from perpendicular projections from each vertice from the outer surface. (1 & 2) (almost like the solidify modifier in blender). By UV unwrapping the mesh and importing it back into blender (3), I can take the distance between each of the vertices on the outer wall, and the corresponding vertices on the inner wall, and apply those numbers to the flattened mesh to get the thickness (4 & 5). 

    I know this example wouldn't actually fold back up very well but for my purposes, it would be totally fine. Any help on where to go with this would be super appreciated.
    Cheers guys
  • epistularum

    I'm trying to turbosmooth the object while retaining hardness on the inner beveled part and the outer parts like screenshot below where hard edges are in red. I always end up with pinching.

    Attempts:
    2) https://i.imgur.com/Bd8e02r.png https://i.imgur.com/ohsuNsP.png result:https://i.imgur.com/SwmYiQT.png



  • FrankPolygon
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    FrankPolygon polycounter lvl 3
    @epistularum There's no matching segment below the bevel to match the new support loops so it causes a pinching shading error. If the side is flat then just terminate the edge loops there. If there's a taper then it's going to need a little finessing.

    Here's something that could work for either. It's possible to reduce this into an Ngon or tri configuration. It all depends on the desired shape and the overall size of the object.





  • epistularum
    This still results into pinching, am I missing something in your explanation?

  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    That surface is non-planar (not flat) hence the visual artefact (pinching) result.

    Try FrankPolygon's third *ngon* example and see if it makes any difference.

      

  • FrankPolygon
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    FrankPolygon polycounter lvl 3
    If the ngon approach isn't ideal, try sliding these edges to the middle and that should soften the crease. Depending on the desired shape and corner tightness it may take a little finessing.


  • epistularum
    This is the n-gon approach:

    I tried your method but I still got pinching. But it got me thinking, I moved the edges to the extreme edges and welded them to the top/bottom while keeping a quad topology. This works but the topo seems horrendous, surely this is an issue? What do you guys think?

    Also another option that I found is simply trubosmoothing a bit once to have more topo to keep the curves and then extruding.
  • Klunk
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    Klunk polycounter lvl 4
    I'm trying to place the watch along this path. I don't want to use path deform because i dont want to deform the individual elements. I tried to use a path constraint but all the pieces lose their initial location and are all placed at the same place.
    I would love to know if somebody has a solution for this.

    yeah, you can use a spline based "chain" rig for stuff like this, works for chains, tank tracks or any thing where you need something to follow the next.

    the trick to the rig is to have helper objects act as the pivot points which are path constrained to the spline.... then each item in the chain is then position constrained to the pivot helper with a look at constraint to the next helper along. You can then add a spline IK modifier to the spline so it can be animated. As long as the spline length remains relatively constant throughout the animation it should look pretty convincing.




  • FrankPolygon
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    FrankPolygon polycounter lvl 3

    The pinching in the first one can be explained by the support loops being too close in the middle. The second and third have similar topology in the middle but the second one pinches and the third one doesn't. This points to something else like the middle edge loop being marked as a crease.


    The second and third examples have similar topology around the middle loop and the pinching is too consistent between the first and second for it to be "just" a geometry issue. You mentioned sliding and welding edge loops on the third example and those operations may have resolved any obscure geometry issues but it seems more likely that it removed any crease settings that were causing pinching along the middle edge loop.

    I was able to replicate this type of pinching on the ngon topology by marking the middle loop as a crease.



    I'd be interested in taking a look at the actual geometry if you could upload an obj or fbx file.
  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool

    epistularum said:

    I moved the edges to the extreme edges and welded them to the top/bottom while keeping a quad topology. This works but the topo seems horrendous, surely this is an issue? What do you guys think? 

    Good solution, also what matters is the smoothing result once the subD algorithm is applied not the underlying topology/Geo, whether aesthetically pleasing or not.

    EDIT: I'd recommend researching the subject further either on this thread or interweb, generally I think you'd be surprised with what you'll find, which basically will dispell misconceptions via those new too the discipline.  

  • MiguelGutierrez
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    MiguelGutierrez polycounter lvl 3


    Anyone knows how to make the nose for the F- 22 raptor? I'm trying adding support edges even with crease and opensubdiv but I can get it. Any help will really appreciated!!

    Thanks!!
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth


    Anyone knows how to make the nose for the F- 22 raptor? I'm trying adding support edges even with crease and opensubdiv but I can get it. Any help will really appreciated!!

    Thanks!!

    12 sided cylinder with even out edges. The top section is a quad too (pointy)

  • MiguelGutierrez
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    MiguelGutierrez polycounter lvl 3
    Awesome!! thanks I really appreciate your help. I can finally end this model... thank you so much!!
  • MiguelGutierrez
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    MiguelGutierrez polycounter lvl 3
    I followed your instructions... is this the shape of the pointy nose in your model??



  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    yes it is @MiguelGutierrez collapse the top vertices
  • javcop
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    javcop polycounter lvl 6
    Hey guys, any ideas on how to get this pinching to smooth out? Have them separating out to see if that would've helped, but it's no good. Tried some other stuff, but still struggling with this. Any help is super appreciated

    FBX: https://mega.nz/#!wZ5VyCxB!4iMbrOXxs17f7OVgr7A8BKS47oNK8htMwemXbLbykD0


  • javcop
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    javcop polycounter lvl 6
    Managed to figure out my issue - aligned and smoothed out all my verts by using a plane as a live object. Could've used the same strat on the other corner, but achieved the same result and got rid of some extra geo by merging those edges


  • Mir76
    Hello.
    I wanted to do a test. I created this with Blender and with a little bevel on it.


    Is it the best way to do this in terms of modeling ?
    Thank you so much !


  • FrankPolygon
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    FrankPolygon polycounter lvl 3
    "Good" is both relative and subjective. Depends on how big the object is, how it will be viewed, if it will be baked to a low poly mesh, etc.

    If the goal is SUB-D modeling then something like this is probably a little more traditional. How this all comes together depends on what you need the edges of the cube to do: square or round, soft or sharp. The big thing is you want to try and match the support loops on the cube with the segments on the cylinder.

    There's a lot of pages in this thread but if you dig you should find other examples of similar geometry. Hope this helps.





  • Mir76
    Thank you so much.
    I was trying to reproduce this same workflow :


    But if it's a plane with a cylinder I don't understand how to do with my bevel.

    I have already seen many pages but there is not this same bevel and this cylinder.






  • FrankPolygon
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    FrankPolygon polycounter lvl 3

    You have the right idea: the geometry intersects between the vertical segments of the cylinder. If you're happy with how it subdivides and it bakes down fine then it's passable. It all depends on how clean it needs to be and what you're using it for.

    Where you can run in to problems: the two vertical loops on either side of the cube break off and flow into the corners. This can cause pinching artifacts. Without support loops around the intersection the cylinder can deform and loose shape. This will spread the smoothing errors but it won't hold a tight shape.

    Using less geometry in the round overs and fillets will make the object easier to edit. If the mesh has to look good with and without subdivision then that's a different use case.


    Here's what the process looks like when adding a fillet to the intersection. The supporting geometry and the edge flow around the intersection is the same for flat, chamfered and fillet intersections. The big thing is matching the cylinder's segments to the edge loops on the intersecting geometry. Use the existing vertical edge loops on the cylinder as support loops for the intersection.


    This geometry supports big and small fillets, chamfers and intersections with sharp, soft and rounded corners. It renders and bakes down well with subdivision and looks decent without.
  • Nonplus
    How would I bevel these highlighted edges so they remain tight when subdividing?



    A typical bevel with 2 segments produces this result:



    But this creates tris that mess up the edge flow:



    This is the best I have so far, but this still throws out some undesirable shading and makes the bevelled edges on the left lack a division compared to the rest:




    It's not perfect but it might have to do... unless anyone has a better solution?

  • sacboi
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    sacboi sublime tool
    Try vertex/normal weights or crease values to harden those edges.
    (I'm on a phone at work so can't provide an example)
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Nonplus said:
    How would I bevel these highlighted edges so they remain tight when subdividing?



    A typical bevel with 2 segments produces this result:



    But this creates tris that mess up the edge flow:



    This is the best I have so far, but this still throws out some undesirable shading and makes the bevelled edges on the left lack a division compared to the rest:




    It's not perfect but it might have to do... unless anyone has a better solution?


  • Nonplus
    wirrexx said:
    Nonplus said:
    How would I bevel these highlighted edges so they remain tight when subdividing?



    A typical bevel with 2 segments produces this result:



    But this creates tris that mess up the edge flow:



    This is the best I have so far, but this still throws out some undesirable shading and makes the bevelled edges on the left lack a division compared to the rest:




    It's not perfect but it might have to do... unless anyone has a better solution?


    Thanks for the response! However, doing this gives me the same issue I mentioned above:




    It's worth noting that this shape on the left here curves into the convergence. Perhaps this is what's causing the issue with the smoothed mesh + tris?
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Nonplus said:
    wirrexx said:
    Nonplus said:
    How would I bevel these highlighted edges so they remain tight when subdividing?



    A typical bevel with 2 segments produces this result:



    But this creates tris that mess up the edge flow:



    This is the best I have so far, but this still throws out some undesirable shading and makes the bevelled edges on the left lack a division compared to the rest:




    It's not perfect but it might have to do... unless anyone has a better solution?


    Thanks for the response! However, doing this gives me the same issue I mentioned above:




    It's worth noting that this shape on the left here curves into the convergence. Perhaps this is what's causing the issue with the smoothed mesh + tris?
    would you mind sending me the FBX (no obj, cant open them up in blender) I would like to see why they issue occur. Being a flat area. This seems weird.
  • mujuningaiza
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    mujuningaiza polycounter lvl 4
    bcottage said:
    Why am i loosing sleep over this? i have had a few hours on this and cant get this simple shape :(

    Anyone care to help?
    you shoud read probolean in compound object in 3Ds MAX

    0UgPKpng
    bcottage said:
    Why am i loosing sleep over this? i have had a few hours on this and cant get this simple shape :(

    Anyone care to help?
    you shoud read probolean in compound object in 3Ds MAX

    0UgPKpng
    You better model that thing using nurbs, eg lofting curves. Then Convert nurb to polygon after doing so put it in place, delete some faces combine the mesh, add some loops to make nice poly flow, merge vertices and there you've it.

    Another method would be Extruding then merging some vertices, then beveling sharp edges.
  • Mir76
    FrankPolygon  -> Thank you so much.  I retain your remarks.

  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    @Nonplus Hi buddy. Unless you absolutely need the sharp edge to be an edge, you can have it be a strip of very thin quads instead, allowing you to do normal edgeloop workflow and avoiding that triangle that's giving you a hard time.
    Chamfer these badboys to get dat quad at the edge.

    Yay, weld these verts to the right.

    See that strip of quads replacing the triangle? YEHEHEEEEEBOIII.MOV

    Add edgeloops as tight as you want

    Squish these verts together

    PROFIT!





  • LVL45
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    LVL45 polycounter lvl 4
    Hi guys, I need help here. I did boolean operation which leaves many unused vertices.
    Does anyone have suggestions how can I fast delete unwanted vertices and basically leave only those that forms angle and shape?
    Maybe some option or script that select vertices by certain angle?

  • Zoddo
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    Zoddo node
    LVL45 said:
    Hi guys, I need help here. I did boolean operation which leaves many unused vertices.
    Does anyone have suggestions how can I fast delete unwanted vertices and basically leave only those that forms angle and shape?

    There's an option in your boolean settings in the advanced settings tab, i think it's "no edge removal". Usually that removes unwanted results.
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