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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • Noors
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    Noors polycounter lvl 11
    mmh a tool to project normal from underlying object might be useful. I was thinking about it for max. Normal Thief takes the normal of the closest vert, but normal of the closest point on face would be more accurate. An that would fix that kind of "artefact".
    Don't know if it exists for Maya.
  • GlowingPotato
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    GlowingPotato polycounter lvl 6
    Hi,

    Having trouble with the topology for this one. How would you guys do it to have a nice smooth intersection between the cube and cylinder? I would also like to have thin rounded corners.

    Creasing the edges and smoothing in Maya resulted in pinched corners =/.
  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    @GlowingPotato This is the quickest and cleanest way to do the intersection (IMO), but also adds extra geometry, for better or worse. I'd like to point out that I started out by deleting faces off the cylinder and created the box from the edges I extruded, plus a little cleanup and shifting to resolve the edges,


  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    Hi,

    Having trouble with the topology for this one. How would you guys do it to have a nice smooth intersection between the cube and cylinder? I would also like to have thin rounded corners.

    Creasing the edges and smoothing in Maya resulted in pinched corners =/.
    This is a pretty common kind of problem. I can't mock this one up right now, but you should be able to find plenty of other examples in this very thread- maybe search for the word "offset" or something.

    The solution is not to subdivide, but rather rotate the cylinder slightly so that its vertical edges are not in line with that of the cube where it intersects, but slightly offset.

    This freely provides the supporting geometry that will give a sharp division at the intersection.
  • GlowingPotato
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    GlowingPotato polycounter lvl 6
    @GlowingPotato This is the quickest and cleanest way to do the intersection (IMO), but also adds extra geometry, for better or worse. I'd like to point out that I started out by deleting faces off the cylinder and created the box from the edges I extruded, plus a little cleanup and shifting to resolve the edges,
    Thanks a lot for replying back, I also though about adding extra geo to my cylinder, but for now, is something that i wold like to avoid. Trying to have a nice low poly mesh, if no success, than i'll add extra geo. Thanks again.

    Zablorg said:
    This is a pretty common kind of problem. I can't mock this one up right now, but you should be able to find plenty of other examples in this very thread- maybe search for the word "offset" or something.

    The solution is not to subdivide, but rather rotate the cylinder slightly so that its vertical edges are not in line with that of the cube where it intersects, but slightly offset.

    This freely provides the supporting geometry that will give a sharp division at the intersection.
    This is very interesting, I'll try that but I already have some questions about it. if the cylinder is slightly offset, would be possible to mirror half of the model after? Probably yes but i'll need to figure it out.. maybe if i offset it until the cube edges stays exactly in the middle of two vertical cylinder edges ? Thanks a lot. I'll dig further.

    EDIT:
    @Zablorg I found what you said.


    I'll try this, but, Iam still scratching my head on how to mirror half of the geometry if i want the cylinder to stay in the middle of the cube...maybe if offset it away from he cylinder? lets see...

    By the way, people were mad at each other at the post i took this image from, so ignore the last phrase in the image. 
  • GlowingPotato
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    GlowingPotato polycounter lvl 6
    So, Its much better now, but I`m still have problems in the marked spot, any suggestions ?


    also, there is a N-gon at the Structure image that i don't know how to properly solve it.

    EDIT:

    So, my result is very acceptable for my standards. But i still have issues that I would like some inputs from you guys. There is a n-gon, pinched edges and the shading is not perfect.



  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    So, Its much better now, but I`m still have problems in the marked spot, any suggestions ?


    also, there is a N-gon at the Structure image that i don't know how to properly solve it.

    EDIT:

    So, my result is very acceptable for my standards. But i still have issues that I would like some inputs from you guys. There is a n-gon, pinched edges and the shading is not perfect.



    See where your wireframe is discontinuous in the second image? That suggests to me the two sections of this mesh haven't actually been merged.

    As for edge flow, try this:




  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @GlowingPotato

    I'll clarify the instructions. Without references to Greek mythology, I promise.

    @Zablorg I don't see how that will do anything other than collapse the mesh into a blob.
  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    perna said:
    @GlowingPotato

    I'll clarify the instructions. Without references to Greek mythology, I promise.

    @Zablorg I don't see how that will do anything other than collapse the mesh into a blob.
    What will?

    Your subdivision image shows the edges aren't flowing into each other, which tells me you've either got two meshes, or a single mesh that isn't sealed. I'm saying you need to seal it up.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Zablorg said:
    @Zablorg I don't see how that will do anything other than collapse the mesh into a blob.
    What will?

    Your suggestion will lead to the following. A blob, or "melted" or however you wish to describe it.



  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    perna said:
    Zablorg said:
    @Zablorg I don't see how that will do anything other than collapse the mesh into a blob.
    What will?

    Your suggestion will lead to the following. A blob, or "melted" or however you wish to describe it.



    Ah, you're correct inasfar as the corners of the cube will be blobbed out, yeah. I forgot that this flow isn't good for that. The only difference between what I've got and what you've got is that the extrusion to the right in your image is not going to be co-planar when interfacing with the cylinder.

    Not really an issue though, right? They've just gotta maintain the current edge flow on the cube's outer corners.
  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4


    So this would be the solution, I suppose?
  • Papabless
    Could someone point out how to wrap seam around sphere in maya? Or another method to model baseball seam


  • Amiminoru
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    Amiminoru polycounter lvl 4
    Papabless said:
    Could someone point out how to wrap seam around sphere in maya? Or another method to model baseball seam





  • Mr Digital
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    Mr Digital polycounter lvl 6
    Hi, i have 3 days trying this shape, i did splines and cylinders but nothing worked, any good sould could help me?

  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    Hi, i have 3 days trying this shape, i did splines and cylinders but nothing worked, any good sould could help me?
    Can you show us some of the results from the splines and cylinders?
  • Mr Digital
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    Mr Digital polycounter lvl 6
    I got something like that, but i think the result is not equal.

  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    I got something like that, but i think the result is not equal.


    That looks pretty good to me! Which parts are you concerned with? You should be able to tweak the cylinder radius, etc, pretty easily to fine-tune the result.
  • Mr Digital
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    Mr Digital polycounter lvl 6
    Zablorg said:
    I got something like that, but i think the result is not equal.


    That looks pretty good to me! Which parts are you concerned with? You should be able to tweak the cylinder radius, etc, pretty easily to fine-tune the result.

    Gonna need to move a little bit down the front cylinder, thats why i guess.

  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    Zablorg said:
    I got something like that, but i think the result is not equal.


    That looks pretty good to me! Which parts are you concerned with? You should be able to tweak the cylinder radius, etc, pretty easily to fine-tune the result.

    Gonna need to move a little bit down the front cylinder, thats why i guess.

    Can you not simply change the direction of the spline to achieve this?
  • Mr Digital
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    Mr Digital polycounter lvl 6
    Zablorg said:
    Zablorg said:
    I got something like that, but i think the result is not equal.


    That looks pretty good to me! Which parts are you concerned with? You should be able to tweak the cylinder radius, etc, pretty easily to fine-tune the result.

    Gonna need to move a little bit down the front cylinder, thats why i guess.

    Can you not simply change the direction of the spline to achieve this?

    Is not an editable spline anymore :( but yes, my bad watching the reference.
  • Fingus
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    Fingus polycounter lvl 10
    I had a crack at that faucet for fun. I did it with just an 8 sided cylinder and subD. 

    The intersection was just a bevel and some sliding of the verts to make a round shape, which i then extuded and then did a spherize/circularize on it to make it a perfect cylinder. When you use subD with that low level of sides it's pretty forgiving with hand massaging verts. For clean hard surface modeling I usually avoid hand tweaking stuff and instead rely on the tools to get  mathematically perfect surfaces, but for something this simple it's honestly fine. 



  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    Fingus said:
    I had a crack at that faucet for fun. I did it with just an 8 sided cylinder and subD. 

    The intersection was just a bevel and some sliding of the verts to make a round shape, which i then extuded and then did a spherize/circularize on it to make it a perfect cylinder. When you use subD with that low level of sides it's pretty forgiving with hand massaging verts. For clean hard surface modeling I usually avoid hand tweaking stuff and instead rely on the tools to get  mathematically perfect surfaces, but for something this simple it's honestly fine. 




    How's the lighting on that six-sided pole btw? Looks okay from this angle and the surface seems relatively flat so I guess it's okay here?
  • Mr Whippy
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    Mr Whippy polycounter lvl 7
    From the concept sketch it looks like the angle from horizontal to down-point is more like 75-80deg, not 50-60deg.

    Also there is no seam just after the bend.

    The interior angle (underneath the bend) is sharper.

    The flip back at the nozzle end is a single radius, rather than having a flat end.


    All details, but they'll have a material impact on the methodology and topography of building this, especially if you want the surfaces to be really close to what they should be.

    I'm not sure you can get mathematically perfect with sub-d on very much. To even do a simple constant radius arc you need 5 (iirc) verts... one at each end, and then a centre point, and then ones either side to guide the curve (and even then it's not perfect)
  • Mr Digital
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    Mr Digital polycounter lvl 6
    I did a test render, but the grid is not the original :(

  • m00k
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    m00k keyframe
    Hi fellas!

    I've been screwing around with this model of my tomos'  brakeshoes the last couple of days and I can't seem to get it quite right.






    Tried keeping it as quaded as i can


    I get these kinds of errors




    Also tried with a boolean




    But I get the same thing, I'm having trouble adding these details and keeping the curvature of the object intact. And im not quite sure why this pinching occurs it goes away when crease the vertical edges but then I get a hard crease of course.

    For anybody wanting to take a look at the file I've enclosed it in my post. Its a blender 2.8 (which is coming along great!) file.

    File:
    http://www.mediafire.com/file/ehj033k9h2yqrhy/brakeshoes.blend/file
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @mook can you share an .obj file of the cage?
  • m00k
  • m00k
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    m00k keyframe
    Alright shaz I'll give it a whirl! Thanks!
  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    Modelling this axehead shape:



    Don't like this pole! Anything I can do about it?



    EDIT: realizing that there are three planes in play here like a cube, I ended up doing this:



    I think I'd need a singular subdivide to have enough density to counter the subsequent creasing (due to the two new edge loops running to the bottom), but I actually like the effect it creates in this case.


  • s1dK
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    s1dK interpolator
  • Wisegold
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    Wisegold polycounter lvl 3
    Hi guys,
    I have to model this thing, at the start I thought, ohh yeah it`s easy, but actually is not :'(
    I really don`t know how start with this part.
    Have you some suggest ?
    Thx guys

  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    Wisegold said:
    Hi guys,
    I have to model this thing, at the start I thought, ohh yeah it`s easy, but actually is not :'(
    I really don`t know how start with this part.
    Have you some suggest ?
    Thx guys

    I think you have misunderstood the comment that directed you to this thread. This thread is for posting your own examples of existing topology to ask for help in improving them, not asking for topology from scratch. As I remember, the link you received to this thread was for a specific comment which showed the topology of a project similar to yours, intended to give you a sense of how you might start.

    I would recommend making a start with this as best you can, and then coming back to ask for feedback when you have a model to show.
  • HAWK12HT
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    HAWK12HT polycounter lvl 8
    Decided to give this a go from old pages of this thread and I am wondering if this sort of optimization is still a thing? I had to do couple of manual tweaks to get the desired result and wondering if this can be achieved other way rather than bend modifier and tweak. 
    I tried it on a plane too but was unable to get even spacing like @perna




  • Bek
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    Bek greentooth
    You shouldn't have to do anything by hand (that will mess with the perfect curve), just start at the highest segments, and collapse edges as you go inwards/down.
  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    Bek said:
    You shouldn't have to do anything by hand (that will mess with the perfect curve), just start at the highest segments, and collapse edges as you go inwards/down.
    While this is probably true of the vertices in the collapsed area (closer to the curve center), the vertices in the slightly expanded area do appear to be adjusted slightly in the reference image.
  • HAWK12HT
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    HAWK12HT polycounter lvl 8
    @Bek @Zablorg Thank you for response. 

    I did try edge collapse again and it worked, I must be drunk the last time I tried :smiley:
    so on left non adjust verts at expanded area, on right slightly adjusted verts with edge constraints on. (I just selected the verts and scaled them) 

    I just hope Perna dont see this at all or anyone in admin otherwise this post of mine will go in a hall of fails XD 


  • DigitalGreenTea
    I'm recreating Princess Peach's crown as a small side project in my free time. I'm having trouble modifying the topology in order to get a smooth shading. See the pictures below:

    Does anyone know a way how I can get rid of that little bump? I tried making the support edges follow the entire edge loop, but that created a hard edge where I'd want the roundness to be preserved.
  • Zablorg
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    Zablorg polycounter lvl 4
    I'm recreating Princess Peach's crown as a small side project in my free time. I'm having trouble modifying the topology in order to get a smooth shading. See the pictures below:

    Does anyone know a way how I can get rid of that little bump? I tried making the support edges follow the entire edge loop, but that created a hard edge where I'd want the roundness to be preserved.
    I thought something like this might work:



    Unfortunately it has an undesirable effect on the profile, and the valleys become absolutely insane:






  • DigitalGreenTea
    This is my second attempt - it already looks better, but not still not ideal...


  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    This is my second attempt - it already looks better, but not still not ideal...
    Choose the amount of sides on that cylinder to accomodate the edgeloops you want. 
    https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2595473#Comment_2595473
    If your cylinder has 3x the sides of the amount of flats on the jaggies, you'll be fine. 5x gets you a sharper CNC look.

  • HAWK12HT
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    HAWK12HT polycounter lvl 8




    @DigitalGreenTea I tried with another approach this shape of yours, see if it works for you. I used regularize edge loop script in between too to make it a perfect circle and move few verts with edge constraints on. 



    tried lighting and looks fine no artifacts even though I personally think there is a minor dent going on in 3ds max view port but its not noticeable.  







  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 3
    I´m wondering why all the time I see people are still using Max 2016
    Actually I don´t :D 
  • HAWK12HT
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    HAWK12HT polycounter lvl 8
    HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH @rage288 if you dont then you know why :smiley:
  • Rekov
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    Rekov polycounter lvl 3
    I'm having difficulty figuring out how to add supporting edges to this so that I can subdiv it. I can probably fake my HP model with a bevel modifier, but at this point I just want to find the solution.


    I've highlighted the edges that need to remain hard under the subdiv. So far I haven't found a way to add supporting edges around these that doesn't also harden edges that need to remain soft. Do I just need to start by adding more geometry to my LP model?

  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 3
    Rekov said:
    I can probably fake my HP model with a bevel modifier, but at this point I just want to find the solution
    There you have your answer. Add quadchamfer or chamfer separated by SG and woila if you are using max. If not you can add a "bevel modifier" and subdivide on top of that should be the same.
  • Rekov
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    Rekov polycounter lvl 3
    I initially tried something like that approach, but it didn't work out terribly well, at least in Blender. I used a bevel of two segments with a profile of 1.0, essentially adding an edge along side each edge being beveled without changing the profile. Adding subdiv on top gave this:


    I believe I have found a solution involving more geometry. I'm going to test that now.
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 3

    Green are hard edges (different SGroups)
    Then chamfer modifier, then subdivided :smiley:

  • Rekov
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    Rekov polycounter lvl 3
    @rage288 I can't add chamfers there because those are curved surfaces, and that would break the normals on that curve. Very nearly every surface is curved, so there's no obvious place to run the edges across the surfaces while trying to put them along the edges. The only faces that aren't curved are the ones with strikes parallel to the Y axis.


    Tried doing something like this, but unfortunately there's still some pinching to the normals.

  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 3
    @Rekov look at my example above. The first picture Ive posted was wrong sorry about that
    and that "pinching" you´ve got there is perfectly acceptable


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