How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • musashidan
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    musashidan insane polycounter
    @Mohamed_Salah_Bchir project it as what? A mesh or a texture? There are easy ways to do both. What programs are you using?
  • Mohamed_Salah_Bchir
    @musashidan I prefer a texture, I'm using 3DS Max, thank you!
  • TannedBatman
    Hey just wondering what people think about this. I have decided to model a vehicle and was wondering what you think about the topology. The model is not for a game but for a rendered shot however I still doesn't seem professional despite looking fine once clicked off the model. Obviously there are areas which are ngons but I haven't fixed them yet I will later.
  • sacboi
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    sacboi polycounter
    ^ Initially when blocking out a vehicular biased model, using tri's and ngons are fine in specific regions of the mesh but I'd caution against random placement without I assume, taking into account further likely reedits once subdivisions (smoothing) is applied, namely either maintaining hard edges or testing crease values...etc. 

    Basically a progressive iteration process until a level of desired quality is reached. Anyway effectively generating a simple well thought out topology would be the optimal workflow I'd advise.


    EDIT:
    More handy resources I've referenced for helpful modelling tips and hints:
  • earlgrey
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    earlgrey null
    Hello!. Can anyone give me some advice on how to approach this piece?

    I think of a cylinder but then im stuck here


    I just can't figure out a clean way to do it

  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @earlgrey

    It's an exercise in seeing, not modeling. What does something look like from straight behind or from the side? Does that make it easier to understand? Is the shape complex or assembled by several simple ones? If it's an historically correct part, how did they manufacture it? Important question, but free them from the domain of modeling, because you wouldn't know what to model if you can't see if first in your inner eye.


  • sintel
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    sintel null
    Hi everyone, I've got this shading artifact when trying to boolean on a medium poly model. How could I solve this?


  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    sintel said:
    Hi everyone, I've got this shading artifact when trying to boolean on a medium poly model. How could I solve this?


    Delete the circles, cap the part where you made the hole. Select the entire face of the mesh and give it a smoothing group. Add Turbosmooth modififer, use 2 iterations and check use smoothing groups. Now collapse and convert to edit poly and see if you have enough segments to punch in a couple of holes.
  • Liam_CH
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    Liam_CH polycounter lvl 2
    Hey, would anyone give me some pointers with how to start modelling the seat on this ATV? I've given it a crack but I can't seem to get the contouring right, nor make it fit into the rest of the vehicle correctly.
  • musashidan
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    musashidan insane polycounter
    perna said:
     Identify the first instant that something goes wrong. Is it when you start the software, is it when you use a certain tool, is it when you get out of bed in the morning?
    Perna gold right there.
  • musashidan
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    musashidan insane polycounter
    Shaz_Snow said:
    perna studied alot of philosophy in his free time it seems.
    Perna has spent half his life on this thread and he surely feels people don't bother their arses actually reading through the thread.....
  • Alex Javor
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    Alex Javor hero character
    Liam_CH said:
    Hey, would anyone give me some pointers with how to start modelling the seat on this ATV? I've given it a crack but I can't seem to get the contouring right, nor make it fit into the rest of the vehicle correctly.
    Just start trying things. Anything. Looks like a modified cube to me. That's where I'd start. 

    The only way to be a winner is to learn all the ways to be a failure. Just start trying shit so that you can find all the ways to screw up and get that part of the process out of the way. 
  • Liam_CH
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    Liam_CH polycounter lvl 2
    Let me be more specific then. I can't seem to get the contouring right, nor make it fit into the rest of the vehicle correctly. This is where my attempt was at, I had messed around with some freeform modeling with this shape before realising my method was not going to achieve proper results, and asked for advice. There is no specific tool, or getting out of bed issue I am having, more so that I am unable to find a working method which will achieve the desired shape. I really hope this helps elaborate on my issue so I can receive some pointers, thank you!
  • Alex Javor
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    Alex Javor hero character
    You'll need more resolution to get it smoother. You haven't done anything wrong at all. Just continue pushing and pull vertices. Add resolution as needed.

    Do you have a sculpting program? If you even out the quads a bit by adding in some more edge loops, you can take the mesh into your sculpting app, subdivide, and easily work the shape with some basic sculpting techniques. Then you can keep the higher subdivision for baking, or just use the low as is.

    Fitting to the rest of the model shouldn't be an issue. It's a separate piece in real life -- no reason to try and tie the topology together.
  • Thanez
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    Thanez polycounter lvl 4
    Liam, you've added all the geometry before the shape. Always nail down the major shapes first, then do the fixing of edges and finishing. Delete everything and start over, and tackle one axis at a time: How many edges do you need to make the curve from the left to the right side? Use that many. How many edgeloops do you need to make that wave you can see from the side? Use that many, drag verts around and see what happens.
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 9
    i have to admit that perna's snarky comments usually make my day
    for me it's all in good fun and the tips he gives are actually helpful for a lot of people

  • uncle808us
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    uncle808us polycounter lvl 2
    Maybe use symmetry modifier and model just one side.Then collapse and push the verts or use  taper or bend modifiers.

  • DeathstrokeFTW
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    DeathstrokeFTW polycounter lvl 3
    Hello! Does anyone know how can i project that logo onto the surface, does it involve baking? because i haven't learnt baking yet. and if there other ways? thanks!

    Hope im not late, you dont need to bake this. You can turn the logo into a stamp if you can make it in photoshop and use it while texturing.
  • musashidan
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    musashidan insane polycounter
    @Liam_CH looking at your ref quickly I cam see you need no more than 4 spans across the width and 7 down the length to block that form out. Use as little geo as is necessary and only add geo when you can't get the forms with the geo you have. A classic beginner mistake in both modeling and sculpting is to add way too much geo too early which leads to frustration, confusion, and a modeling mess.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    @Liam_CH looking at your ref quickly I cam see you need no more than 4 spans across the width and 7 down the length to block that form out. Use as little geo as is necessary and only add geo when you can't get the forms with the geo you have. A classic beginner mistake in both modeling and sculpting is to add way too much geo too early which leads to frustration, confusion, and a modeling mess.
    This, this is what Perna preaches everytime. Why? Because when you learn using less control points, project after project. You'll get an eye of how much you need for the next project without trial and error! This saved me with a big project a couple of months ago and til' this day, i take pictures of hard surface things on the street, go home and draw over the edgeflow over the object with as little "lines" as possible. It's such a fun excersice. Then i try it out in a 3D package and see if i understood the shape correct.
  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    I think you're doing good @perna. You're encouraging people to think about their problem, which isn't always easy, especially when they're looking for an easy answer. And that's too often the case.
  • Pryme_XIII
    Hey guys, so yeah ... I am struggling BIG TIME with this Architecture piece.
    It is part of a bigger project in a modular environment and I'm about to throw in the towel because of this
    This is the roof of the Hagia Sophia church / mosque in Istanbul.
    Below you can find a blueprint of same church.
    Now I've already tried several things.
    First I tried using booleans, but I ended up with my geometry all over the place.
    So I thought I seperate the pieces and this is what I ended up with so far.



    I took the center sphere and used the faces around its center to build the crossvault structure inbetween.
    Now the part that gives me headache is the three sperare spheres overlapping the the bordering halfs.
    FYI The radius of the center dome and it's neighbours, is about 17.5 meters = 35m diameter.
    The overlapping small ones are half of that, i.e. 8.25 meters.

    I already scaled everything down by the value four, because my maya scene would not show all of the mesh that big.
    Scaling up times 4 in Unreal should not be a problem or is there a better way to do that?

    Btw. I am still messing with the edgeflow of the vault arches. I'm planning on splitting the pars it in quarters and putting them back together in Unreal later on.


    Thanks for any help.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Pryme_XIII

    You should get it done in a fraction of the time if you block out before you model.

    So try to just capture the shapes by any means - messy booleans, primitives, anything.
    Once the entire blockout is done (impatience will just bite you), that's when you move on to modeling and implement edge flow and the like.


  • jamecz
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    jamecz node
    Having an insane time trying to figure out how to model this in maya. It's from an old hardsurface challenge thread but I can't for the life of me figure out how people did it efficiently. Am I doing this right/ any tips from more experienced hardsurface modelers?


  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @jamecz
    Have you identified any issues or does it just feel like something's wrong?
  • jamecz
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    jamecz node
    @perna I just got super frustrated while getting the "x" shape with the holes. I dragged some vertices around to round out the corners and used duplicate special to create all 4 sides after that. It felt a little unnatural modeling the piece. Just looking for other peoples input on how they'd do it.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Well, look. If I understand you correctly, do you feel lack of confidence in your workflow?

    Like, is it clear in your mind how to.. once you've done one thing, is it clear in your mind how to be sure you've done the thing correctly so you can just forget about it and not worry about it and peacefully, confidently move on to the next thing?
    Or do you like.. even while you're working on the next thing.. you are still thinking about the first thing, because you're not sure you made mistakes there... and maybe you're not sure if you've made mistakes with the thing on top of there either..lowpoly, hipoly, retopo, Uvs, bakes, new engine, new memo in yesterday, new updates to 3ds max, bla bla

    You know these two pictures I'm painting? Which one would you feel you are most like? Or, you don't have to answer this at all if you don't want to, it's just a suggestion. 
  • jamecz
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    jamecz node
    @perna

    Exactly, it's a lack of confidence in workflow. Part of it is me thinking that I need to switch from maya to 3ds max to do better hardsurface modeling. The other part is feeling that I could have found a better more efficient modeling process besides just "drag vertices with the move tool and make an estimation" and that I just need to get better at maya and find the right scripts if that makes sense.

     I suppose I'd be the second picture?
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    OK. I think I understand. Second picture.

    Software: In 3ds Max you can be a 3D productivity god if you are a power user. In Maya you can be all sorts of other 3D gods, so no worry. Experiment with both to find the best fit for your brain.

    That it bothers you to manually tweak verts is maybe a sign that you will prefer the more parametric nature of 3ds Max.

    The other part. Yes. Let me sleep on it. I've felt like that and hated it so maybe I can do something.
  • solidshark91493
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    solidshark91493 polycounter lvl 4
    Hey guys, I had a interesting question.  Ive tried searching but am not finding a great answer to it. Im trying to make a tube frame. The attached image isnt what im making but gives an idea of what Im going for.  

    What Im trying to do is figure out the fastest most efficient way to model it. I use 3ds max and have tried splines, Just am not sure how to tie it all together and make it game engine friendly. Any ideas? I can make it (and have some done) with splines, just not sure if thats the best way to go about it? 

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx greentooth
    Hey guys, I had a interesting question.  Ive tried searching but am not finding a great answer to it. Im trying to make a tube frame. The attached image isnt what im making but gives an idea of what Im going for.  

    What Im trying to do is figure out the fastest most efficient way to model it. I use 3ds max and have tried splines, Just am not sure how to tie it all together and make it game engine friendly. Any ideas? I can make it (and have some done) with splines, just not sure if thats the best way to go about it? 

    this is my lazy attempt because you did not show exactly what you have done so far.
    but hey.. keep them squared (not perfectly on my picture, but i just did this in 2 min ) ..so normal boxes turns round when you turbosmooth them without using smoothign groups. splines are good, and could be good for block out, for intersections, i'd either use a 8 sided cylinder and then connect all the line s(symmetrical piece so easy to do one side). Or Boxes like i did.
  • MaxHoek
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    MaxHoek polycounter lvl 4
    I would use max splines for layout and zbrush (dynamesh + mask by feature + polish) to combine them
  • Mark Dygert
    Yep, splines are well suited for this. I wouldn't bother joining them together. Instead I would use JokerMartini's welder script. Worth it's weight in gold for projects like this.

    https://jokermartini.com/product/welder/
  • Pac_187
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    Pac_187 polycounter lvl 7
    With the updated booleans in max 2017/2018 (not sure right now) you can also put a Editable Spline modifier on top. Bang! Intersections converted to splines. You can even go as far as keeping this all procedural.

    Check out this video from Martin Coven, at 4:00 minutes he shows this technique

  • solidshark91493
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    solidshark91493 polycounter lvl 4
    Yep, splines are well suited for this. I wouldn't bother joining them together. Instead I would use JokerMartini's welder script. Worth it's weight in gold for projects like this.

    https://jokermartini.com/product/welder/
    Thats so amazing! 
    Thanks for all the advice guys, super appreciate it, I think Ill get that script. 

    As for making it a game optimized vehicle part, Use splines, get it completed, convert to editable poly, then remove any polygons inside the tubes that wouldnt be seen and use this weld script? 

    Would it then be a good idea to bake the frame to get the weld detail? Ive not had much success with baking. 
  • franman
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    franman polycounter lvl 10
    Is there a procedural way of modeling wrinkles and bandages in 3Ds Max (Check out the red cricles).


    I want to make a high poly version of this and bake it onto the low poly when it comes to normal mapping.
  • musashidan
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    musashidan insane polycounter
    @solidshark91493 This is something I modeled a few years ago and the spline modeling/jokermartini weld script method above is used all over the place. You can also dynamesh the highpoly, sculpt the welds and bake. Or just use Sub Painter to add the welds directly to the normal map. All methods are good.

  • PolycountCounter
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    PolycountCounter polycounter lvl 2
    Hey guys, just a quick one. I'm trying to add a minor light to the bumper of this car, but I don't feel like this is the right way to implement it into the mesh. Any tips on how I could make this come better into the mesh?


    Ref picture:

  • hassansheded
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    hassansheded polycounter lvl 2
    im trying to model this piece  that have this tapered extension at the bottom, when i try to make it give it this taper i get this weird reflections like the surface is uneven so how should i solve this ? 
  • Thanez
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    Thanez polycounter lvl 4
    @hassansheded You're missing constricting edgeloops on both sides of that edge you want to control. Here ya go m8y

  • onionhead_o
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    onionhead_o polycounter lvl 11
    rezinekk said:
    Hey all,

    I am wondering how I would go around modelling this in Maya? I am currently following a tutorial by David Lesperance and he is using 3DS max and he did this using the spline and fillet tool, however in Maya I could not make this that way. I tried using booleans however that gives me a really messed up mesh even after deleting history. I have tried creating a triangle, beveling the corners and then extruding it however this seems like its really long winded and I am just wondering what the best way to go around this?

    Thanks a lot


    I think the closest thing to the spline method for Maya is to use Bevel Plus under Surface tab.
    First select the outer curve> Then shift select the inner curves> Run Bevel Plus> Set Outer Style curve to straight out and Inner style curve to Straight in.
    There is no one click solution to achieve fillet curve. But what you can do is draw the shape first with CV curve with 1 degree. In your case a triangle> then go to Edit point mode> select all the points > Go to top Menu -> Curves --> Detach curves --- with keep originals off> select a pair of curves then run Fillet with Options> Fillet Settings Trim turned on, Construction set to Circular.  Radius controls the amount of Fillet
  • Papabless
    Hey, just tryign model this edge on weapon and get stuck. I suppose I need deal with it with hard edges?


  • franman
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    franman polycounter lvl 10
    When I turbosmoothed a chamfered object in 3Ds Max I get wierd results; I'll show you what I mean.

    No turbosmooth

    With turbosmooth

    All the vertices are wielded so I'm wondering how I can fix this issue; that is not let the faces overlap the corners.
  • Papabless
    franman said:
    When I turbosmoothed a chamfered object in 3Ds Max I get wierd results; I'll show you what I mean.

    No turbosmooth

    With turbosmooth

    All the vertices are wielded so I'm wondering how I can fix this issue; that is not let the faces overlap the corners.

    You have n-gon at the corner. Try delete this 2 edges that going to that one vertex and insted make them come straight. I mark green how they should be like
  • Arkangelmark5
    Papabless said:
    franman said:
    When I turbosmoothed a chamfered object in 3Ds Max I get wierd results; I'll show you what I mean.

    No turbosmooth

    With turbosmooth

    All the vertices are wielded so I'm wondering how I can fix this issue; that is not let the faces overlap the corners.

    You have n-gon at the corner. Try delete this 2 edges that going to that one vertex and insted make them come straight. I mark green how they should be like
    That's not a n-gon it has 4 sides. The issue is that the edge loop has no holding edges which causes it to smooth. That is the correct way to solve it though.
  • Gustavo_Elliott

    So my question is fairly straightforward-- Is this topology as bad as I think it is?  I'm making the satellite for the monthly art challenge and was trying to make the low poly from the high poly for this but I have learned that cylinders with detail can be tricky... Any feedback would be greatly appreciated
  • Thanez
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    Thanez polycounter lvl 4
    @Gustavo_Elliott This isn't the 'pls give me critique' thread, and we can't do that without knowing what you're trying to accomplish.
    Try this: If you're unhappy with specific parts of your model and can't solve those issues, ask us for help on that. If you want generic critique, start your own thread asking for them :)
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