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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Pryme_XIII

    You should get it done in a fraction of the time if you block out before you model.

    So try to just capture the shapes by any means - messy booleans, primitives, anything.
    Once the entire blockout is done (impatience will just bite you), that's when you move on to modeling and implement edge flow and the like.


  • jamecz
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    jamecz polycounter lvl 2
    Having an insane time trying to figure out how to model this in maya. It's from an old hardsurface challenge thread but I can't for the life of me figure out how people did it efficiently. Am I doing this right/ any tips from more experienced hardsurface modelers?


  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @jamecz
    Have you identified any issues or does it just feel like something's wrong?
  • jamecz
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    jamecz polycounter lvl 2
    @perna I just got super frustrated while getting the "x" shape with the holes. I dragged some vertices around to round out the corners and used duplicate special to create all 4 sides after that. It felt a little unnatural modeling the piece. Just looking for other peoples input on how they'd do it.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    Well, look. If I understand you correctly, do you feel lack of confidence in your workflow?

    Like, is it clear in your mind how to.. once you've done one thing, is it clear in your mind how to be sure you've done the thing correctly so you can just forget about it and not worry about it and peacefully, confidently move on to the next thing?
    Or do you like.. even while you're working on the next thing.. you are still thinking about the first thing, because you're not sure you made mistakes there... and maybe you're not sure if you've made mistakes with the thing on top of there either..lowpoly, hipoly, retopo, Uvs, bakes, new engine, new memo in yesterday, new updates to 3ds max, bla bla

    You know these two pictures I'm painting? Which one would you feel you are most like? Or, you don't have to answer this at all if you don't want to, it's just a suggestion. 
  • jamecz
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    jamecz polycounter lvl 2
    @perna

    Exactly, it's a lack of confidence in workflow. Part of it is me thinking that I need to switch from maya to 3ds max to do better hardsurface modeling. The other part is feeling that I could have found a better more efficient modeling process besides just "drag vertices with the move tool and make an estimation" and that I just need to get better at maya and find the right scripts if that makes sense.

     I suppose I'd be the second picture?
  • solidshark91493
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    solidshark91493 polycounter lvl 6
    Hey guys, I had a interesting question.  Ive tried searching but am not finding a great answer to it. Im trying to make a tube frame. The attached image isnt what im making but gives an idea of what Im going for.  

    What Im trying to do is figure out the fastest most efficient way to model it. I use 3ds max and have tried splines, Just am not sure how to tie it all together and make it game engine friendly. Any ideas? I can make it (and have some done) with splines, just not sure if thats the best way to go about it? 

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx interpolator
    Hey guys, I had a interesting question.  Ive tried searching but am not finding a great answer to it. Im trying to make a tube frame. The attached image isnt what im making but gives an idea of what Im going for.  

    What Im trying to do is figure out the fastest most efficient way to model it. I use 3ds max and have tried splines, Just am not sure how to tie it all together and make it game engine friendly. Any ideas? I can make it (and have some done) with splines, just not sure if thats the best way to go about it? 

    this is my lazy attempt because you did not show exactly what you have done so far.
    but hey.. keep them squared (not perfectly on my picture, but i just did this in 2 min ) ..so normal boxes turns round when you turbosmooth them without using smoothign groups. splines are good, and could be good for block out, for intersections, i'd either use a 8 sided cylinder and then connect all the line s(symmetrical piece so easy to do one side). Or Boxes like i did.
  • MaxHoek
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    MaxHoek polycounter lvl 5
    I would use max splines for layout and zbrush (dynamesh + mask by feature + polish) to combine them
  • Mark Dygert
    Yep, splines are well suited for this. I wouldn't bother joining them together. Instead I would use JokerMartini's welder script. Worth it's weight in gold for projects like this.

    https://jokermartini.com/product/welder/
  • Pac_187
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    Pac_187 polycounter lvl 8
    With the updated booleans in max 2017/2018 (not sure right now) you can also put a Editable Spline modifier on top. Bang! Intersections converted to splines. You can even go as far as keeping this all procedural.

    Check out this video from Martin Coven, at 4:00 minutes he shows this technique

  • solidshark91493
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    solidshark91493 polycounter lvl 6
    Yep, splines are well suited for this. I wouldn't bother joining them together. Instead I would use JokerMartini's welder script. Worth it's weight in gold for projects like this.

    https://jokermartini.com/product/welder/
    Thats so amazing! 
    Thanks for all the advice guys, super appreciate it, I think Ill get that script. 

    As for making it a game optimized vehicle part, Use splines, get it completed, convert to editable poly, then remove any polygons inside the tubes that wouldnt be seen and use this weld script? 

    Would it then be a good idea to bake the frame to get the weld detail? Ive not had much success with baking. 
  • franman
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    franman polycounter lvl 11
    Is there a procedural way of modeling wrinkles and bandages in 3Ds Max (Check out the red cricles).


    I want to make a high poly version of this and bake it onto the low poly when it comes to normal mapping.
  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    @solidshark91493 This is something I modeled a few years ago and the spline modeling/jokermartini weld script method above is used all over the place. You can also dynamesh the highpoly, sculpt the welds and bake. Or just use Sub Painter to add the welds directly to the normal map. All methods are good.

  • PolycountCounter
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    PolycountCounter polycounter lvl 3
    Hey guys, just a quick one. I'm trying to add a minor light to the bumper of this car, but I don't feel like this is the right way to implement it into the mesh. Any tips on how I could make this come better into the mesh?


    Ref picture:

  • hassansheded
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    hassansheded polycounter lvl 3
    im trying to model this piece  that have this tapered extension at the bottom, when i try to make it give it this taper i get this weird reflections like the surface is uneven so how should i solve this ? 
  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    @hassansheded You're missing constricting edgeloops on both sides of that edge you want to control. Here ya go m8y

  • onionhead_o
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    onionhead_o polycounter lvl 12
    rezinekk said:
    Hey all,

    I am wondering how I would go around modelling this in Maya? I am currently following a tutorial by David Lesperance and he is using 3DS max and he did this using the spline and fillet tool, however in Maya I could not make this that way. I tried using booleans however that gives me a really messed up mesh even after deleting history. I have tried creating a triangle, beveling the corners and then extruding it however this seems like its really long winded and I am just wondering what the best way to go around this?

    Thanks a lot


    I think the closest thing to the spline method for Maya is to use Bevel Plus under Surface tab.
    First select the outer curve> Then shift select the inner curves> Run Bevel Plus> Set Outer Style curve to straight out and Inner style curve to Straight in.
    There is no one click solution to achieve fillet curve. But what you can do is draw the shape first with CV curve with 1 degree. In your case a triangle> then go to Edit point mode> select all the points > Go to top Menu -> Curves --> Detach curves --- with keep originals off> select a pair of curves then run Fillet with Options> Fillet Settings Trim turned on, Construction set to Circular.  Radius controls the amount of Fillet
  • Papabless
    Hey, just tryign model this edge on weapon and get stuck. I suppose I need deal with it with hard edges?


  • franman
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    franman polycounter lvl 11
    When I turbosmoothed a chamfered object in 3Ds Max I get wierd results; I'll show you what I mean.

    No turbosmooth

    With turbosmooth

    All the vertices are wielded so I'm wondering how I can fix this issue; that is not let the faces overlap the corners.
  • Papabless
    franman said:
    When I turbosmoothed a chamfered object in 3Ds Max I get wierd results; I'll show you what I mean.

    No turbosmooth

    With turbosmooth

    All the vertices are wielded so I'm wondering how I can fix this issue; that is not let the faces overlap the corners.

    You have n-gon at the corner. Try delete this 2 edges that going to that one vertex and insted make them come straight. I mark green how they should be like
  • Arkangelmark5
    Papabless said:
    franman said:
    When I turbosmoothed a chamfered object in 3Ds Max I get wierd results; I'll show you what I mean.

    No turbosmooth

    With turbosmooth

    All the vertices are wielded so I'm wondering how I can fix this issue; that is not let the faces overlap the corners.

    You have n-gon at the corner. Try delete this 2 edges that going to that one vertex and insted make them come straight. I mark green how they should be like
    That's not a n-gon it has 4 sides. The issue is that the edge loop has no holding edges which causes it to smooth. That is the correct way to solve it though.
  • Gustavo_Elliott

    So my question is fairly straightforward-- Is this topology as bad as I think it is?  I'm making the satellite for the monthly art challenge and was trying to make the low poly from the high poly for this but I have learned that cylinders with detail can be tricky... Any feedback would be greatly appreciated
  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    @Gustavo_Elliott This isn't the 'pls give me critique' thread, and we can't do that without knowing what you're trying to accomplish.
    Try this: If you're unhappy with specific parts of your model and can't solve those issues, ask us for help on that. If you want generic critique, start your own thread asking for them :)
  • Klo Works
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    Klo Works polycounter lvl 5


    I tried to follow this workflow but  it doesn't give me a smooth result instead a sharp line.



    with baking result.

    I follow this video




    the left one in flat surface looks fine but in cylinder it show sharp line.
    so any idea on how to solve it ?
  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    @klo works, the sleeve is too short, there's not enough space and geometry for the normals to "level out" to the underlying shape.
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10
    you could copy the vertex normals from the object below to the edgering, which would fix this
  • Klo Works
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    Klo Works polycounter lvl 5
    you could copy the vertex normals from the object below to the edgering, which would fix this

    @klo works, the sleeve is too short, there's not enough space and geometry for the normals to "level out" to the underlying shape.


    @throttlekitty I am not sure if the way I do is the correct one. in flat surface 

    @SnowInChina how do you do that ? 
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10
    not sure how this works in maya exactly, since iam using blender
    maybe this will help


  • onionhead_o
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    onionhead_o polycounter lvl 12
    i believe to transfer the normals you need to use transfer attributes.
  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    Klo Works said:
    you could copy the vertex normals from the object below to the edgering, which would fix this

    @klo works, the sleeve is too short, there's not enough space and geometry for the normals to "level out" to the underlying shape.


    @throttlekitty I am not sure if the way I do is the correct one. in flat surface 

    @SnowInChina how do you do that ? 
    It looks like your sleeve is sunk in. Use that Target Inflation value on the shrinkwrap to alleviate this. And as SnowInChina mentions, Transfer Attributes can help with normals, but not much in the case of two cylinders like this. If you're after a perfect bake, you'll need a lot of geometry for a completely perfect match. Also, smooth mesh preview generates its own normals anyway.

    In my example here, there's three meshes, the two basic cylinders and the sleeve to make them appear joined.

    A note for bakes: If you rotate the view around, especially if the objects have a shiny material on, the seams become plainly visible. However, so long as the view looking down the normals appears seamless, it's good to go for a bake.


  • Klo Works
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    Klo Works polycounter lvl 5
    It looks like your sleeve is sunk in. Use that Target Inflation value on the shrinkwrap to alleviate this. And as SnowInChina mentions, Transfer Attributes can help with normals, but not much in the case of two cylinders like this. If you're after a perfect bake, you'll need a lot of geometry for a completely perfect match. Also, smooth mesh preview generates its own normals anyway.

    In my example here, there's three meshes, the two basic cylinders and the sleeve to make them appear joined.

    A note for bakes: If you rotate the view around, especially if the objects have a shiny material on, the seams become plainly visible. However, so long as the view looking down the normals appears seamless, it's good to go for a bake.


    thanks everyone, :) 
    @throttlekitty but your example will show the seam if you bake it right ?
     when I try transfer normals it's not working, but it's fine with flat surface.
    I added more geometry and it's do the trick like the image below :) 
    so this method only works if I really want a perfect bake. otherwise will show the seams.
    with flat surface or little bend I don't need to add many geometry but with cylinder the best choice to add more geometry.

    @throttlekitty the last part I didn't get what you mean:  "However, so long as the view looking down the normals appears seamless, it's good to go for a bake."
    what  do you mean by that?
    English my second language so sorry sometime I want to make sure to get all the topic  :P 
    and thank you for taking your time.



    update** I don't need this huge geometry I just add 2 division with more loops on the bottom.


  • Mohamed_Salah_Bchir
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    Mohamed_Salah_Bchir polycounter lvl 2
    Any idea how to model this?
    should it be a texture or geometry?
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10
  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    Klo Works said:
    It looks like your sleeve is sunk in. Use that Target Inflation value on the shrinkwrap to alleviate this. And as SnowInChina mentions, Transfer Attributes can help with normals, but not much in the case of two cylinders like this. If you're after a perfect bake, you'll need a lot of geometry for a completely perfect match. Also, smooth mesh preview generates its own normals anyway.

    In my example here, there's three meshes, the two basic cylinders and the sleeve to make them appear joined.

    A note for bakes: If you rotate the view around, especially if the objects have a shiny material on, the seams become plainly visible. However, so long as the view looking down the normals appears seamless, it's good to go for a bake.


    thanks everyone, :) 
    @throttlekitty but your example will show the seam if you bake it right ?
     when I try transfer normals it's not working, but it's fine with flat surface.
    I added more geometry and it's do the trick like the image below :) 
    so this method only works if I really want a perfect bake. otherwise will show the seams.
    with flat surface or little bend I don't need to add many geometry but with cylinder the best choice to add more geometry.

    @throttlekitty the last part I didn't get what you mean:  "However, so long as the view looking down the normals appears seamless, it's good to go for a bake."
    what  do you mean by that?
    English my second language so sorry sometime I want to make sure to get all the topic  :P 
    and thank you for taking your time.



    update** I don't need this huge geometry I just add 2 division with more loops on the bottom.



    I don't always type well, so I'll try again. Baking software looks at each vertex of the low poly, using each vertex normal like a camera angle. With many models, you can easily see the seams while rotating your perspective camera around. But if you position the camera to look down the normal, or "straight down" at the seams, there should be little to no visible difference.

    I think your bevel is too tight for a game asset. You don't have to zoom out very far before there aren't enough pixels and it starts to look like a sharp edge.

    Also, I gave some bad advice regarding using a lot of geometry to get a perfect bake, and I should know better. Sometimes more geometry is the better or only solution, cylinders in particular can cause headaches. Other times it's not even possible or worth the time.
  • Papabless
    Guys how to model this details on handle? Have no clues

    https://i.imgur.com/5pavtKy.jpg
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Papabless
    You don't need to model any of that.
    You could manually make a bump
    map which you mix in at the normal map stage of your lowpoly or you can manually make a displacement for the hipoly.
    You can naturally model out the displacement map (it's just the outer border, a few circles, a star and one roof tile which you clone).
    So these solutions are all straight-forward and professional. No need to actually, manually model that detail into the hipoly model if all you want is a typical game asset.

    I just want you guys to know I'm not forgetting anyone. Expect something at the end of the month/beginning of next, and feel free to hold me to that promise as as I have a wealth of content already.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @maxman Yes.rotate the initial sphere so that its geometry is aligned to the intersection.
    Now you have it aligned to world space, which unless you need that for a very specific reason should not be done.

    Here's the image I made last time someone asked about this:


  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    I made a better image, well I think. The general principle might be good to keep in mind for any kind of complex intersection, not just spheres.


  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    maxman: I'll have a go tonight if you show the shapes you want. After that I'll be away for some time.
  • ChrisJones75
    Hey guys,

    Can someone elaborate on this please? this was a simple few steps walkthrough in creating an interesting shape. I follow along to this and get some crazy results, all of them hideous and nothing like this! my biggest issue is with creating the circle from the square, especially as it's on an angled / curved plane. Is there a simpler way to achieve the same result?
    Image credit – John Dickinson / Motionworks

    Any alternative approach is welcomed as I cannot fathom this way however many times I try...

    Thanks. 
  • drinkwater101
  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 3
    Hi,

    anyone can help with nice way topology to make that bump...? I tried bu not happy with that.
    Thanks.

    ...
  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    @ChrisJones75 Friendo, post your attempt and we'll be able to help you out, buddy. Otherwise, no, that tutorial shows pretty much the simplest way of doing details on curves.
    You could stop at his third step, unwrap the thing and do a heightmap with displacement.

    @iacdxb M8 you've spent all that time trying to make that detail flow nicely into the flat quads,  Just cap the area off with double edgeloops and you can do whatever you want in there as long as you triangulate any ngons that pop up.


    Note: The lip errors only pop up in concave ngons.
    As for the shape of the snakey bit, make sure you have the required control points to secure it's curves. To control a curve properly you'll need 3 control points. The more you have, the harder it is to control.
  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 3
    Yes, Thanks. It works.

    Thanks.
  • HAWK12HT
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    HAWK12HT polycounter lvl 8
    @iacdxb @Thanez just know that while this method works and get you results I would also suggest looking into making same shape with quads too as it will give you more edge in modelling..
    *it may get rejected by TD or AD if even in game environment this will be used for deformations
    *it is insta no no approach in Film VFX department, this thread is for learning how to model shapes so its best we learn both ways as our industry is limited and we never know where life takes us ;) could be games could be movies or both! 
  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    @iacdxb @HAWK12HT Sure, for a deforming or sculpting ready mesh you'll have to have the topology to be ready for that. I shouldn't have worded my post in a manner that can be read as "Ngons are always fine". I would like to specify my solution to "Ngons are fine for details around flat areas on non-deforming hardsurface meshes that will only be used for baking, specifically where the highpoly won't be added to a portfolio, showing your ugly solution"
    iacdxb: There are pros and cons to each and every method out there. Next time you run into a problem like this, try a different method than I showed you. You should learn all of the methods to be the strongest artist you can be.

    Edit: Here's a different approach:

  • vimkellerr
    Guys, do you have a photo grid collection? thanks in advance!)


  • sacboi
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    sacboi ngon master

    PolycountCounter said:

    Hey guys, just a quick one. I'm trying to add a minor light to the bumper of this car, but I don't feel like this is the right way to implement it into the mesh. Any tips on how I could make this come better into the mesh?


    Ref picture:

    Ah!...missed this one, bit late with a reply.

    So just a thought for future reference, I'm a great believer in keeping things simple because...well I think pre-empts unnecessary reedits down the track. Now even though your approach works, my suggestion is to basically sketch out those insets such as directional light and grill in the front facia first then simply bridge the edges. For further workflow insights take a peek at these, they're examples of IMO helpful automotive modeliing tips that'll be useful to keep in mind as your project develops.

    http://www.carbodydesign.com/article/59531-modeling-cars-in-polygons/

    https://polycount.com/discussion/184989/mini-cooper-classic-wip

    Cheers.    

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