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  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    Frump wrote: »
    Every time Claire and Kate are in the same scene together I always hope one steps on a land mine or something. That is really what came to mind when they were hugging. Get rid of the two worst characters in one fell swoop.

    When they hugged in this episode I hoped for the very same thing LOL

    What's this new character about, Jacob and Smokey's 'mother'? Seems interesting. Good episode. A little slower, but still good. In one of the previous crappy seasons it would have taken Sawyer two episodes to get over to Hydra island, so at least they are keeping the pace up.
  • diminished_Self
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    what is there, 9 regular episodes and a two hour finale to go? they need to start answering questions.

    i also really REALLY hope that perna is wrong. thats not a mind fuck. thats just fucking stupid.
  • mikezoo
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    Walt! Walt! WALLLLTTTT!!!!!


    seriously, Walt! What the fuck happened and what was he all about? I feel like everybody (including the shows producers) forgot about his character who seemed to be one of the biggest mystery's from season 1 -5

    WTF Walt. If there's one answer/explanation I demand from this show; its that they tie up the loose ends concerning Walt.
  • bounchfx
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    mikezoo wrote: »
    Walt! Walt! WALLLLTTTT!!!!!


    seriously, Walt! What the fuck happened and what was he all about? I feel like everybody (including the shows producers) forgot about his character who seemed to be one of the biggest mystery's from season 1 -5

    WTF Walt. If there's one answer/explanation I demand from this show; its that they tie up the loose ends concerning Walt.

    tough shit. kid grew up too fast. I don't expect any more of him :\
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    yeah we've already tied up Walt (he's living with his grandma) when Locke went to go see him, prior to going to find Michael and finding out he couldn't kill himself.
  • Andreas
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    The thing with how they are (uncannily) tying things up, is that a lot of it may go unsaid. But I think its pretty clear that Walt was at one stage the primary candidate set to take over from Jacob, hence why they tried to abduct him at the end of the first season. Ahh....fond memories of that episode. I was completely confused as to why they took walt and who 'they' were :D
  • mikezoo
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    no way! if they leave Walt untouched then I feel extremely cheated. The show places a huge importance upon him in the early seasons.

    After all. hes special. important. Now tell us why!!!

    ****

    Blenderhead: The thought of walt as a candidate did cross my mind. I think thats an important thing to think about, but there are so many odd situations concerning him. Instances of him "being in places where he shouldn't be". Whats up with him saving Lock when Ben shot him? Whats up with him appearing and dissapearing in front of Shannon and Sayaid?
  • bounchfx
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    I think a lot of those types of questions are going to be answered very indirectly. there will be hints and clues but no direct THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED. but the pieces are there if you want to sort them out :P
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    Jeremy Lindstrom polycounter lvl 18
    they took all kids.... not just Walt..
  • Frump
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    Frump polycounter lvl 12
    Well, Walt was taken in the first season and emphasis was put on him by the others. As the series has gone on, we've come to realize just how insignificant the others are. Who cares what stupid reason they had to take or think highly of Walt, it probably has nothing to do with what's going on now. Remember, Ben was like the lead other and He's just as much along for the ride as the rest of the cast now. He doesn't know any more or less than the rest of them.

    I personally hope they do not have Walt or Michael back.

    The one thing I really want explained is the Dharma shark. When they zoomed over to the water a couple episodes ago to reveal the sub, I thought we were going to see the Dharma shark. :)
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    We saw it in the season opener it was swimming over the sunken island. :)
    Frump wrote: »
    The one thing I really want explained is the Dharma shark. When they zoomed over to the water a couple episodes ago to reveal the sub, I thought we were going to see the Dharma shark. :)
  • bounchfx
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    Frump wrote: »
    Well, Walt was taken in the first season and emphasis was put on him by the others. As the series has gone on, we've come to realize just how insignificant the others are. Who cares what stupid reason they had to take or think highly of Walt, it probably has nothing to do with what's going on now. Remember, Ben was like the lead other and He's just as much along for the ride as the rest of the cast now. He doesn't know any more or less than the rest of them.

    I personally hope they do not have Walt or Michael back.

    The one thing I really want explained is the Dharma shark. When they zoomed over to the water a couple episodes ago to reveal the sub, I thought we were going to see the Dharma shark. :)


    the dharma shark was a joke. they never expected that to get on camera.
  • Andreas
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    Frump wrote: »
    Who cares what stupid reason they had to take or think highly of Walt, it probably has nothing to do with what's going on now.

    Pretty big assumption right there. Plus remember we saw them questioning Walt, and Walt spoke of 'tests' they gave him (much like Locke as a child I imagine). Also, the other kids can't frikkin project their consciousness or do stuff with their mind (that we know of).
  • low odor
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    I'm kind of disappointed that after Locke tells people he's the smoke monster...they just look at him and go ok....I accept that....wouldnt the proper reaction be wtf..how..what are you....and no coy, ambiguous statements...are you smoke from the godbong..?

    and what about the whispers...they played the others off to be these super ninjas at first..that could kidnap someone in the blink of an eye...then they just kind of turned into a hippie commune with guns

    and where is the unkillable russian cyclops....I really want that guy to jump out of the bushes and stab kate in the face

    And what about that one lady from season 3 I think..when Sawyer and Kate were in the cages...she was like .......I'm a judge for the others..blah blah...never saw her again

    I want to know Kazinki's(sp) story too...we know where his brains end up..we know he was a phyco nerd geek boy dickhead..but he was an interesting character..everyone else in the dharma initiative was a hippy douche....but Kazinki was a fuck that rageaholic
  • KhAoZ
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    I have to say I've loved this show since about Season 2. Season 1 was just a warm-up in my opinion, but I'm up to episode 3 in the final season and its a little disappointing so far, not really any action, little to no suspense (other than Sayid....), and no questions answered answered other than small details about the smoke monster... I hope it gets better later in the season haha
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    why was horace continuing to build his cabin locked in a time loop...?
  • JohnnySix
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    why was horace continuing to build his cabin locked in a time loop...?


    Did I miss an episode? Horace building Jacob's cabin?


    Looking forward to next episode - gonna be interesting seeing what Richard and Jack do next, and how Ben will figure into it, now he's been accepted back onto the 'good' team.
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 18
    You must have... it was (I think) 2 seasons back.

    locke+dream+horace.jpg

    Note the nose bleed too. He was caught in a loop.
    Horace Goodspeed: "I've been dead for 12 years. You gotta find me, John. And when you do, you'll find him. "
    Locke: "Who?"
    Horace: "Jacob. He's been waiting for you a real long time."
  • bounchfx
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    so now I have a couple new questions:

    how did MiB get there to begin with? was jacob's body really his own?

    what are their 'rules' (this was mentioned in the previous episode by the boy)?
    if jacob is trying to keep MiB there, what's the point of bringing people to the island just to prove mib wrong? I mean, i get the whole 'told u so' thing, but every time he does it he jeopardizes his own life as well as risks MiB escaping the island. Wouldn't it be best for EVERYONE if he just let themselves be, seeing as how for some reason MiB can't touch him? unless it's part of the aforementioned 'rules' to them being there.

    I really like the bottlecap/wine analogy. that cleared stuff up.

    and are they in hell or not? seems like just more of a spiritual place than hell. I think they said hell/purgatory just to stir people up haha

    all in all, fucking awesome episode. wow, ricardos. hardcore.
  • KhAoZ
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    I wonder if all the questions will be answered by the end of the season :-P
  • notman
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    notman polycounter lvl 18
    I missed the first 5 minutes or so :( I heard on the radio that Jacob isn't really dead, so I'm curious what I missed, since I didn't see anything to suggest that later.

    I was starting to get bored with the episode during Richard's past, but damn, the show really filled in some blanks later (IMO).

    Here's the way I see it now. The people who get to stay, are those who did something bad in their past, or suffered greatly in some way. These people maybe aren't 'candidates' to replace Jacob, but actually are candidates for this experiment. These are all people who have the ability to be good or bad, but can be easily swayed either way.

    The 'game', I think, is to prove to MiB that not everyone can/should be corrupted. Essentially, I think MiB is sentenced to stay on that island by someone (probably a god), and Jacob is there to guard him. These experiments are a method of rehabilitating MiB. Who knows, maybe they are even playing it as though MiB really is Satan, and that is why we haven't heard his name yet (because it would give it away).

    The island is protecting the world, because if MiB was released from his captivity on the island, he would infect the world by convincing people to follow their dark path.

    I think Locke became the ultimate proof for Jacob. Here is a man who has had his father steal his organs. Then the father steals his organs and throws him out a window, causing him to lose the use of his legs. Then, to top it off, works for a real asshole who insults him daily. Oh, and when he tries to go on that outback trip, they reject him as a final insult.
    Then, he comes to the island, and can not be corrupted. He won't even kill his father when he arrives on the island (instead, Sawyer does it). So, MiB takes on Lockes identity, almost like, he couldn't corrupt him when he was alive, so he'll use Locke's image to do his evil deads.
  • ScoobyDoofus
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    I'm such a pussy, but the scene where Richard gets to talk to his dead wife via Hurley totally made me tear up. Such a perfect moment in a great episode. The music, the cinematography, the performances, all fantastic. Reminded me a lot of The Fountain. I really enjoyed this episode, one of my favorites of the series, no doubt.
  • JohnnySix
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    notman wrote: »
    You must have... it was (I think) 2 seasons back.

    locke+dream+horace.jpg

    Note the nose bleed too. He was caught in a loop.

    Damn, I gotta go back! Totally missed that part! :poly142:



    Still trying to figure out why smokey / mib seems to kill off people almost indiscriminately the moment they arrive. This episode most of the people on the ship (who hadn't already been run through with a sword) were killed off without the whole flashing light treatment that Richard got.



    Oh and WTF - Hanso killed off ? When are they going to tie up that loose end, the whole Hanso deal, and Widmore grabbing the ships log etc. Was the boat actually sailing to the island in the first place?
  • notman
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    I think that they don't matter. They either have no good in them, or not enough bad. So, he gets rid of them because he won't be able to sway them to be evil, or they are too evil already, so it won't prove anything to Jacob.
  • JohnnySix
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    It'll be interesting to find out how they started recruiting the 'others', if the whole ex-banker martial-arts dude in the temple deal came about much later, as Richard was (judging by the age of the architecture) a relative late-comer to the party - but apparently, according to this flash-back, the first recruit.
  • Frump
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    notman wrote: »
    Here's the way I see it now. The people who get to stay, are those who did something bad in their past, or suffered greatly in some way. These people maybe aren't 'candidates' to replace Jacob, but actually are candidates for this experiment. These are all people who have the ability to be good or bad, but can be easily swayed either way.

    In the first 5 minutes they said outright that the candidates are there to replace him, so your theory here is faulty. :p

    Jack: Candidates... Candidates for what?

    Sun: To replace Jacob.

    It was a cool episode. Bit slow at first but once Ricardos started talking to the Man in Black/Jacob it picked right up.

    I like that the whole thing is just a big chess game. Trying to prove that they are incorruptible. It's risky, but maybe Jacob was tired of doing his job and wanted to pass on the torch.

    Another idea: If it was a finite list of people who were able to replace Jacob, he had to bring as many to the island as possible before he died, so that they/the one could be there to replace him before smokey escapes.
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    yup, agreed frump, and notman what about rose and bernard, they have not got a bad past or suffered greatly that we know of other then her going to the island and cured of cancer.
  • notman
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    Actually, my theory about the candidates still kinda holds. So, it may be to candidates to replace Jacob AND candidates for their game. Because, if someone succeeds in becoming good without Jacob's intervention, then maybe that's who qualifies as his replacement. The only flaw in that part of my theory, is my theory that Locke succeeded in not being corrupted. But, he's also a very weak person as a whole, so maybe he didn't fit.

    As for Rose and Bernard, they were suffering greatly at that time. Rose had realized that she wasn't going to survive cancer and had given up on that changing. Bernard refused to give up on her condition. Even though, he was happy when they left the outback, he would eventually find the truth and be very upset. People in those situations often lose faith and become very angry (and corruptible).
  • [Deleted User]
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    Remember back in like Season 3, when Ben told Locke he had to waste Anthony Cooper in order to be one of them? What's up with that? Do you figure it was all a test of his corruptibility, or is that a legit thing the Others have to do? Either way, it raises questions about what does or doesn't preclude one from remaining a candidate, because Locke sort of did it and Sawyer totally did it; but neither of their names were crossed off the cave wall.

    I wonder what Rose and Bernard are up to now. We haven't seen them since the blast, but they should probably be in the same year as everyone else now. I'm curious about what the MiB has planned for them, if anything.
  • bounchfx
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    fly_soup wrote: »
    I wonder what Rose and Bernard are up to now. We haven't seen them since the blast, but they should probably be in the same year as everyone else now. I'm curious about what the MiB has planned for them, if anything.



    Yeah. Aren't they still on the island? just.. chilling?
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    Jeremy Lindstrom polycounter lvl 18
    yup, the last episode we saw them in was they were about to blow up the island and rose said, you all are always wanting to go killing or hurting one another.. and they were happy living out in the woods by themselves.
  • glib
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    'What if I told you that God and the devil made a wager for the souls of all mankind?

    No direct contact -- just influence...see who would win. '

    --- Constantine
  • Andreas
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    fly_soup wrote: »
    I wonder what Rose and Bernard are up to now. We haven't seen them since the blast, but they should probably be in the same year as everyone else now. I'm curious about what the MiB has planned for them, if anything.

    Popular opinion is they are the two skeletons we saw way back in season 1 in the cave.

    So...Sawyer is a cop, yet saw the bracelets on Kates wrists at the airport in her episode, but didn't stop her. So...some people recognise each other in this parallel setup?
  • notman
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    Last night's show is how many of them should have been in the past. We now know why Jin was in the cooler, and to have it answered in the same season is sweet.

    It does appear that Widmore is the backup plan for keeping MiB on the island. It looks like, in the end, he may be one of the good guys.

    And Desmond is back! And it looks like we get a Desmond episode next week. I thought him and Sayid playing googly eyes with each other, was a little odd.

    And, isn't that plane too fucked to fly again? I would think Sawyer would have noticed this, and called BS on Locke for suggesting it will return them home.
  • b1ll
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    Idont think Jacob or smockey guy are good/bad guys, id say they are just douches.
  • moose
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    b1ll wrote: »
    Idont think Jacob or smockey guy are good/bad guys, id say they are just douches.

    ya.
    Jacob: "Come to island pretties and play with me!!!"
    MIB: "muahahah you're here now play with me!"
    Jacob: "no!!! dont do that he's bad!"
    MIB: "I wanna go home!"


    Side note: i HOPE OMG HOPE they do a "whatevertheotherstoriesofftheislandare" segment on Hurley, and they hint that Empire Strikes Back was never released, and there was only one Star Wars movie ever. That'd be awesome.
  • Andreas
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    moose wrote: »
    Side note: i HOPE OMG HOPE they do a "whatevertheotherstoriesofftheislandare" segment on Hurley, and they hint that Empire Strikes Back was never released, and there was only one Star Wars movie ever. That'd be awesome.

    lol what a horrible world that would be.

    Good episode. Sun has nice boobies! :D I honestly expected Walt to be the package, but it turned out to be Desmond the variable...curious to see what his role will be.
  • [MILES]
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  • b1ll
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    okay, so desmond will save the losties In the +alternate timeline+ and the Island timeline.

    I guess?
  • Frump
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    Frump polycounter lvl 12
    oh shi-
    Flash sideways is the Matrix!

    That was an awesome episode. I wonder though, if Desmond's flash sideways are the same as everyone else's. It seems he was able to directly see his while the others are just oblivious, unless they are dead in the current timeline. Charlie and Daniel were also able to see their alt timeline but in that timeline they are both dead. Anyway, if his is actually different, maybe it has nothing to do with the others at all.

    If it is a Matrix style distraction, I guess they have done it to keep them away from the island and made it so that they never have a chance to let out or restrain MiB because they've just been totally kept away from it all. But then where does that leave Jacob and the Man in Black in the alternate timeline? Maybe it's just a total hallucination and they are all just gestating in tubes somewhere in the main timeline.
  • TomDunne
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    Frump wrote: »
    oh shi-
    Flash sideways is the Matrix!

    That was an awesome episode. I wonder though, if Desmond's flash sideways are the same as everyone else's. It seems he was able to directly see his while the others are just oblivious, unless they are dead in the current timeline. Charlie and Daniel were also able to see their alt timeline but in that timeline they are both dead. Anyway, if his is actually different, maybe it has nothing to do with the others at all.

    If it is a Matrix style distraction, I guess they have done it to keep them away from the island and made it so that they never have a chance to let out or restrain MiB because they've just been totally kept away from it all. But then where does that leave Jacob and the Man in Black in the alternate timeline? Maybe it's just a total hallucination and they are all just gestating in tubes somewhere in the main timeline.
    It isn't like a world-within-a-world Matrix, it's really an alternate possible future. The thing is, the Sideways world is the wrong future - not the way things are supposed to be, not what god/the universe intended. I wish I could think of a great example of this, as it's common in a lot of SF/fantasy writing, but nothing is coming to mind :( Maybe Quantum Leap is a good example.

    About Desmond, his unique ability is to move through time with just his mind. Remember the episode The Constant from the 4th season (my all time fave Lost ep), when Desmond from the current timeline kept slipping back to the past. It was current Desmond who, in his past self's body, traveled to Cambridge to meet Faraday the first time. It's also how he was able to tell Penny to answer the phone when he called her years and years into the future.

    Tonight, we saw the current Desmond travel from the real timeline reality to the Sideways timeline reality. He remained there from the moment he 'came to' in front of the Oceanic Air luggage gate display until he made contact with Penny, who is the real Desmond's constant. Making contact with her returned current Desmond's mind to his real body, just seconds after he left. This is the real reason Widmore wanted him on the island - not that Desmond can survive major electromagnetic events, but because he's the one person who can move through all possible times and futures.

    I have no idea how it's all going to play out, but GOD DAMN if tonight's episode didn't get me excited to see how they tie it all together :)
  • [Deleted User]
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    As soon as this episode goes online, I want to get a better look at what Daniel wrote in his journal. I suspect that diagram holds some big clues to what the deal is with the sideways timeline.
  • moof
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    This all makes Desmond seem more powerful than Jacob or MiB lol. I wonder if Desmond exists concurrently or becomes disentangled in each world again when he blacks out.
    Haha.
    Sayid: come with me.
    Desmond: sure thing! (faints)
  • bounchfx
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    that was fucking awesome.
  • SgtNasty
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    Desmond is probably my favorite LOST character, and the episode was pretty solid.

    I honestly wasn't digging the performances though. Grandma Time (Widmore's wife/Faraday's mom) is always meh to me. Plus, and I don't know if it was just me, but there was some serious bromance between Widmore and Desmond at the beginning of the flash sideways.... Hugging, and then "Nothing is too good for you Desmond". If you watch Burn Notice, it reminded me of the interactions between Micheal and Gilroy....lol.
  • notman
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    Based on what Faraday's mom said, I'm thinking the losties return to a life that fulfills their deepest desires. She referenced how much Desmond wanted his new life the way it was, and I think that could apply to everyone.

    Oh, and get ready for it.... WALLLLLLTTTTT!!!!! WHERE'S MY SON!!??!?!?!? Micheal returns next week (maybe Walt)
  • bounchfx
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    yeah It's all very exaggerated.. I wonder who is in on it. I think widmore and his wife both know, and she was fucking CRAZY about it. it's like 'we gave you exactly what you wanted so whats the problem?' kind of thing.. and they're obviously waiting for some moment, or trying to prevent something, I don't really know. But they're starting to converge, and that shit is interesting.

    can't wait for next week's episode.
  • Jesse Moody
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    Yeah that episode was just awesome. Gotta love Desmonds character and the things they touched on this episode. He wants the flight manifest because he has something to show them.!!!! What could it be? Is he going to give them all the same experiences? Take them to the island in this alternate reality?

    Oh man...so good!!!!
  • low odor
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    low odor polycounter lvl 17
    I was bored...I had been excited for desmond's episode..and it started off good..but a 30 second conversation with fairaday was all we got ..and more blah blah blah from Eloise..we get it..she knows everything...and Desmond(or the audience) is to retarded to understand...I hope it starts to pick up
  • Mark Dygert
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    notman wrote: »
    Oh, and get ready for it.... WALLLLLLTTTTT!!!!! WHERE'S MY SON!!??!?!?!? Micheal returns next week (maybe Walt)
    Please, no... just... no.
    I cheered when he crashed his car, then was sad when he lived. I cheered when he blew up and was quite happy to see him stay that way. I died a little inside when he popped back up last night.

    I missed a few bits and pieces here and there so I'll have to watch it again. but overall good episode.
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