I'm so fucking sick of Kate. Kill her the fuck off (for real) pls. kthxbai.
Seriously, I have never once believed her "Badass killer with the heart of gold" bullshit.
And, she kidnaps Claire in the alternate reality, dumps her out, then comes back, and Claire actually GETS IN THE CAR? WTF? Then She needs her to hold her hand while talking to the adoptive parent(s)? I know they're supposed to have some spiritual/transdimensional connection, but for fuck's sake, if the guy that held a gun to my head and then threw me out of a cab came back, I would run the fuck away.
I had a theory up untill the latest episode, that the guy (cant remember his name) he was seen with jacob at the beginning of an episode, when jacob goes down to the beach to get some fish he caught, then a guy appears later and theres a bit of a tense atmosphere between him and jacob. My theory was that this guy shifted into locke/smokey.
I'm probably way off.
That's exactly what happened. The man in back was looking for a loophole to kill Jacob. He found the loophole by taking Locke's form and persuading a human, Ben, to kill Jacob. And you didn't forget his name, we've never been told what it is
I'm not really sure why they did the "tests" on sayid, is the pool of water supposed to make you immune to pain? Can see that kind of making sense, since Jacob did not wince, scream, or do otherwise when killed, and these people seem to be all up in Jacob's bidness. Coincidentally, Ben seemed rather unscathed emotionally after getting beaten by Desmond in season 5, other than being wounded and tired.
I wonder if the "loophole" mr.SmokeMan thought of actually failed, because Ben was no longer human?
The island requires one trap-making crazy baby lady at all times.
LOL!!!!
I thought it was a bullshit episode. They really need to make with the info doling already...how many episodes to go.
So...am I right in thinking the Japanese guy is referring to 'nemesis' when he talks about the darkness that took the INCREDIBLY IRRITATING aussie? Ergo...any manifestation of Jack's dad is also old smokey, not Jacob as well thought?
I just caught up with all the episodes (Hulu is fucking genius!) and just caught up on this thread and people have some really interesting theories.
I personally don't think Jacob possesses or shapeshifts at all. Jacob is Jacob. It's Jacob's counter-part (Smokey) that does all the shapeshifting and posing as deceased characters. I got this impression mainly because Jacob appears as Jacob to everyone else and Christian never claimed to be Jacob but can "speak on his behalf".
Also the ash circle creates some form of force field for Smokey (as was seen when Smokey attacked everyone at Jacob's "house" - the foot of the statue), which is the same ash circle around Jacob's cabin. It was probably set there to keep Smokey out or to keep Smokey in, but we do see that the ash circle has been broken meaning he is free to leave and enter the cabin at will.
it feels so much like they are just making stuff up episode by episode
I thought so too, for a while. Even more now with the battle of Dark vs. Light gods. Now that the last season has started. I've begun watching the whole series over again.
Check out this nice little bit of foreshadowing FROM THE PILOT EPISODE!!!
Good episode. I think they could have come up with a way better reason for the numbers, but whatever. At least it didn't blow like that last 'whats in the damn pill' episode.
I'm glad the numbers have been associated with SOMETHING, but I'm still curious how those numbers translated to each person. I didn't see Kate's name/number up there either. Actually, there are several names/numbers of people who still survive on the island, yet weren't visible on that way, but maybe they just weren't important (even if they seem so). Bernard and Rose come to mind... and Claire.
Great episode though. Like Skankerzero said, Locke episodes are always A+.
It was interesting though, to see Ben as a teacher. That means that somehow the losties existing, somehow resulted in Ben going to the island. Which means that somehow the island was gone a VERY long time. I'm beginning to really believe that Jacob and Smokey will be undone somehow, and the island will ceased to have ever exist in the 70's.
Thinking about it now, I really hope they do a Black Rock episode at some point, but I don't think they have enough time to touch on that.
Who the Hell was the Kid, a Jacob Re Start? What if Dark Guy and Jacob are Cain and Able? I think Kate will Die this season, that's why she's not on the list. \
Just some thoughts.
wtf yo. we didn't really learn anything in regards to the 'true meaning' of the numbers. they've been everywhere, and simply having names assigned to them doesn't tell us shit other than 'jacob has a thing for numbers' and they just happen to have numbers that are the same exact numbers as the hatch serial number, the winning lottery number, the dharma passkey numbers, etc. etc.
its cool seeing them again in some meaningful context, but as for what they actually mean or why we see them so often is still seemingly random to us, unless it's a number 23 kinda crap, which seems to be too often to be that. I wonder if they're going to play it as a coincidence thing though, though at this point I'm not sure if you can call that many occurrences a coincidence lol
I'm glad the numbers have been associated with SOMETHING, but I'm still curious how those numbers translated to each person.
Yeah I hope they give a reason why each person was associated that number. Also, I dunno if Kate qualifies for Jacob, she is a murderer/thief
For me it's looking more and more likely that all the examples of the numbers at the swan station (rim of hatch, computer) were put there by the losties themselves, or Jacob, sort of a 'we were here' type thing.
wtf yo. we didn't really learn anything in regards to the 'true meaning' of the numbers. they've been everywhere, and simply having names assigned to them doesn't tell us shit other than 'jacob has a thing for numbers' and they just happen to have numbers that are the same exact numbers as the hatch serial number, the winning lottery number, the dharma passkey numbers, etc. etc.
They're most likely rankings as to the candidacy for the protector of the island.
Note number 4 was Locke, the lowest number out of the losties (meaning the highest candidacy), he loved the island and was pretty much the perfect fit, then he died.
It was interesting though, to see Ben as a teacher. That means that somehow the losties existing, somehow resulted in Ben going to the island
I think it just means that Sayid wasn't there to shoot Ben as a kid, to KEEP him there. Ben's father may have died from natural causes in this timeline and Ben just left after he did.
The alternate realities are pretty nifty. I think I'm missing something here though. Half of the losties were stuck in the groovy 70's while the rest were in 2007 or whatever. They never stated what the bomb did exactly, so I'll assume it unified both of those timelines? I mean, Locke was seen by Sun (2007) but now he's with Sawyer/etc (70's). So this means Sun and Jin are now on the same timeline? Very trippy.
wtf yo. we didn't really learn anything in regards to the 'true meaning' of the numbers. they've been everywhere, and simply having names assigned to them doesn't tell us shit other than 'jacob has a thing for numbers' and they just happen to have numbers that are the same exact numbers as the hatch serial number, the winning lottery number, the dharma passkey numbers, etc. etc.
its cool seeing them again in some meaningful context, but as for what they actually mean or why we see them so often is still seemingly random to us, unless it's a number 23 kinda crap, which seems to be too often to be that. I wonder if they're going to play it as a coincidence thing though, though at this point I'm not sure if you can call that many occurrences a coincidence lol
The way I took it is that Jacob has been manipulating everything. Even the numbers. So to me, if this is a list that Jacob created, then this is the true meaning of the sequence of numbers.
Place people in the place of numbers and you basically have an event that must play out a certain way or the world will end. Or perhaps it needs to play out a certain way SO the world can end.
Good post Skanker. I forgot to start looking for a list from those screenshots. I know someone will eventually break down all the scratched out names. I wouldn't have thought Claire was scratched off, since she's still alive, but maybe she's removed because she did die (and restored with a black heart), or he scratched off people as they no longer were candidates.
...or he scratched off people as they no longer were candidates.
this.
Someone said that Juliet's number is up here. 53 - Burke
also Miles. 171 - Strarume
I can't read the writing, but if true, and Jacob was the one scratching them off, then he had to scratch off Juliet's before he died. She died after he was killed, so that tells me that her name was scratched off before Jacob's death. This points to people being scratched off once they are no longer a candidate.
Especially since Miles and Claire are still alive.
I was under the impression the numbering was purely coincidental; he may have had a thing for numbers... but i wonder if his "thing" was to just keep track of how many people he contacted. Was cool though, i liked the bit about SmokeLocke throwing the white rock into the water, unbalancing the scale.
No idea wtf that kid was about, other than some sort of "higher authority" saying he couldn't kill Sawyer... i got nuthin. More ambiguous characters who are talking about rules, yay!
I've been thinking about these numbers and some of this doesn't make any sense.
We know that the six numbers have been part of the show since the beginning. Hurley's lotto numbers, the code in the hatch, etc - it's always been 4 8 15 16 23 42. That's fine. But why were those six numbers chosen even before the other candidates had been ruled out?
We've seen Claire's number. She was on flight 815, and she's since been ruled out. Was she ruled out before the crash? If so, why was she on the plane? If not, why isn't her number part of the magical group?
Same with Miles. He arrived AFTER the final six. Was he still a candidate when he arrived, or was his name scratched off even before he set foot on the island? Was it something that happened in the time-travel 1970s that removed him, even though that happened to him AFTER he came to the island?
I like that the numbers are being dealt with. I don't like that other members of 815 and characters like Miles also were supposedly candidates, since the final six were apparently narrowed down long before the crash happened.
That or the lotto/hatch code/other stuff is just a big fucking coincidence
One odd thing, now that you bring up Hurley's lotto winnings, is that prior to being on the island, he was the unluckiest guy. Now that the past was changed, he's the luckiest guy ever. I don't see how that could have changed just by changing the island's past.
If it can be changed, by not ever having the island, then how would he get the numbers? He initially got the numbers from the guy in the nuthouse. It's assumed that guy was on the island at some time. So, even if that guy was put away before the island was gone, he was the one that said the numbers were tainted.
Bah! This is where screwing with time really fucks things up
No idea wtf that kid was about, other than some sort of "higher authority" saying he couldn't kill Sawyer... i got nuthin. More ambiguous characters who are talking about rules, yay!
Was the kid talking about Sawyer or was he referring to Jacob?
'Anything that changes beyond that point is just progress' said Jacob to the other when watching the incoming ship that Richard Alpert was on board, and so I suspect was Jacob and the other.
I wonder if when the right combination of elements and interaction of characters occurs everyone will be free of the island and back in their old lives where the progress they made on the island and the connections they made impact with their new lives.
I dont think the kid was Jacob, I think that was an additional power, representative of the Island's consciousness that is reminding the other of the terms of the compact they made when they first arrived, I suspect Jacob, Richard and the other were the first ones to arrive in the wake of that section of egyptian lore being torn from its rightful place.
It's worth remembering that the title is spiritual, not geographical; so the purpose of everything is to set everyone back on the right track. I suspect that doing so would result in the other being screwed, thats why he fights against the 'right way' of doing things.
so my guess is that the people listed there, that match up with the numbers, play some part in either ending the world (which makes sense from a MIB point of few), or changing the numbers and saving the human race.
side note:
i feel like i missed out on like 75% of the lost story by not playing in their ARG, the lost experience.
Christ that acting was bad. Also I think they are changing up on the Dharma Initiative for no reason...
...so what that video is saying, is that in the new parallel reality, the numbers are different? Also, what is this virus thing about? Why introduce it so close to the end?
Christ that acting was bad. Also I think they are changing up on the Dharma Initiative for no reason...
...so what that video is saying, is that in the new parallel reality, the numbers are different? Also, what is this virus thing about? Why introduce it so close to the end?
that info/video has been available since 2006. this isnt new info, its old stuff that you had to uncover via the ARG.
Last night was pretty good, especially for a Jack episode. I don't know that I care that much about his home life, but I believe it did try to establish a changed timeline. I don't recall much about his life with his ex in the past, but I don't recall them having a kid. And of course, time will correct for itself, and he'll meet Claire still.
It looks like they explained the numbers a little more. Apparently it's associated with their degree on that dial.
Hahahah Yeah Clair has a weird Gollum thing going on in her eyes hahahaha.
Jack is Retarded I hate him.
Hurley Is Bad Ass and probably how I would be if on the Island.
Hahahah Yeah Clair has a weird Gollum thing going on in her eyes hahahaha.
Jack is Retarded I hate him.
Hurley Is Bad Ass and probably how I would be if on the Island.
Yeah, he's been expertly crafted as the audience's voice on the show :P.
For someone who's spent the last how many years marching around the jungle, kicking a door in sure takes the wind out of Jacks sails. I think the direction for each of his lines went something like this: "and Jack says in a breathy asthmatic voice..."
It's good to see the writers passed on his "feel sorry for me, cry a bucket of tears in my belly button attitude, to his son".
Que, The Cats in the Cradle.
Josh I agree, Hugo as always was great.
I don't think anything is wrong with Clair and by extension Sayid, well other than being manipulated by lock-monster and being tortured and stuck on an island. I think she's as batty as Rouso was which was probably normal after being abandoned.
yah, fuck jack. he's turned into such a whiny baby. I did however like how he told Hurley "I was broken, I came back so the island would fix me," really shows how much he really only thinks about himself, despite his actions of wanting to help and save everyone.
Was a little frustrated Jin didn't flat out say "yeah claire... its ok.... Kate took aaron off the island 3 years ago when they left. He's ok," when she started going ape shit with the axe. Maybe she would have killed him then... or maybe it would have spared us 10 minutes of them staring at eachother (flashbacks of the "driving" 24 episodes... where the entire hour is people in fucking cars). Or how she was unimpressed or interested in the fact that Jin now spoke awesome English. What drives these characters to keep secrets in infuriating, their decisions all seem very forced and lame. That, and Hurley being such an amazing dude and character didn't bother to read the names on the dial - but maybe he was doing that because he really doesn't think about his own ambitions first.
I kinda enjoy that Jacob is now telling the candidates not to go to the temple.. but poor Miles He & Hurley are great characters together.
Replies
Seriously, I have never once believed her "Badass killer with the heart of gold" bullshit.
And, she kidnaps Claire in the alternate reality, dumps her out, then comes back, and Claire actually GETS IN THE CAR? WTF? Then She needs her to hold her hand while talking to the adoptive parent(s)? I know they're supposed to have some spiritual/transdimensional connection, but for fuck's sake, if the guy that held a gun to my head and then threw me out of a cab came back, I would run the fuck away.
It's your own damn fault if you read this thread before watching the latest episode.
Admins, am I right?
On the same point though, it's not like the spoiler tags make it difficult to read if you want to :P
I wonder if the "loophole" mr.SmokeMan thought of actually failed, because Ben was no longer human?
Figured it doesn't hurt to be careful, but yeah, I guess this thread doesn't need 'em...
LOL!!!!
I thought it was a bullshit episode. They really need to make with the info doling already...how many episodes to go.
So...am I right in thinking the Japanese guy is referring to 'nemesis' when he talks about the darkness that took the INCREDIBLY IRRITATING aussie? Ergo...any manifestation of Jack's dad is also old smokey, not Jacob as well thought?
I personally don't think Jacob possesses or shapeshifts at all. Jacob is Jacob. It's Jacob's counter-part (Smokey) that does all the shapeshifting and posing as deceased characters. I got this impression mainly because Jacob appears as Jacob to everyone else and Christian never claimed to be Jacob but can "speak on his behalf".
Also the ash circle creates some form of force field for Smokey (as was seen when Smokey attacked everyone at Jacob's "house" - the foot of the statue), which is the same ash circle around Jacob's cabin. It was probably set there to keep Smokey out or to keep Smokey in, but we do see that the ash circle has been broken meaning he is free to leave and enter the cabin at will.
I thought so too, for a while. Even more now with the battle of Dark vs. Light gods. Now that the last season has started. I've begun watching the whole series over again.
Check out this nice little bit of foreshadowing FROM THE PILOT EPISODE!!!
[ame]
not sure if this has been posted yet. this thread is very long.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/final_season_of_lost_promises_to
Guess we know the true meaning of the numbers.
THANK GOD! FINALLY!!!!!
Great episode though. Like Skankerzero said, Locke episodes are always A+.
It was interesting though, to see Ben as a teacher. That means that somehow the losties existing, somehow resulted in Ben going to the island. Which means that somehow the island was gone a VERY long time. I'm beginning to really believe that Jacob and Smokey will be undone somehow, and the island will ceased to have ever exist in the 70's.
Thinking about it now, I really hope they do a Black Rock episode at some point, but I don't think they have enough time to touch on that.
Just some thoughts.
kept me wondering thou. the little boy lock and james saw what is he?
wtf yo. we didn't really learn anything in regards to the 'true meaning' of the numbers. they've been everywhere, and simply having names assigned to them doesn't tell us shit other than 'jacob has a thing for numbers' and they just happen to have numbers that are the same exact numbers as the hatch serial number, the winning lottery number, the dharma passkey numbers, etc. etc.
its cool seeing them again in some meaningful context, but as for what they actually mean or why we see them so often is still seemingly random to us, unless it's a number 23 kinda crap, which seems to be too often to be that. I wonder if they're going to play it as a coincidence thing though, though at this point I'm not sure if you can call that many occurrences a coincidence lol
Yeah I hope they give a reason why each person was associated that number. Also, I dunno if Kate qualifies for Jacob, she is a murderer/thief
For me it's looking more and more likely that all the examples of the numbers at the swan station (rim of hatch, computer) were put there by the losties themselves, or Jacob, sort of a 'we were here' type thing.
Or he would have left at some point, but them being there changed that. Possibly when Sayid shot him :P Maybe teacher Ben has been on the island.
They're most likely rankings as to the candidacy for the protector of the island.
Note number 4 was Locke, the lowest number out of the losties (meaning the highest candidacy), he loved the island and was pretty much the perfect fit, then he died.
Sawyer was too, just didn't get caught. He shot the guy he thought was Sawyer in Australia in the rain.
I think it just means that Sayid wasn't there to shoot Ben as a kid, to KEEP him there. Ben's father may have died from natural causes in this timeline and Ben just left after he did.
The alternate realities are pretty nifty. I think I'm missing something here though. Half of the losties were stuck in the groovy 70's while the rest were in 2007 or whatever. They never stated what the bomb did exactly, so I'll assume it unified both of those timelines? I mean, Locke was seen by Sun (2007) but now he's with Sawyer/etc (70's). So this means Sun and Jin are now on the same timeline? Very trippy.
Claire's name was there, and it was crossed out.
Look at some screencaps and you'll see '313 - Littleton'.
**edit** oops, mixed up Kate's last name.
The way I took it is that Jacob has been manipulating everything. Even the numbers. So to me, if this is a list that Jacob created, then this is the true meaning of the sequence of numbers.
The numbers are part of the Valenzetti Equation.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation
It basically tells us when the world is going to end.
Place people in the place of numbers and you basically have an event that must play out a certain way or the world will end. Or perhaps it needs to play out a certain way SO the world can end.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates
Yeah, I caught that as I was adding to my post.
this.
Someone said that Juliet's number is up here. 53 - Burke
also Miles. 171 - Strarume
I can't read the writing, but if true, and Jacob was the one scratching them off, then he had to scratch off Juliet's before he died. She died after he was killed, so that tells me that her name was scratched off before Jacob's death. This points to people being scratched off once they are no longer a candidate.
Especially since Miles and Claire are still alive.
No idea wtf that kid was about, other than some sort of "higher authority" saying he couldn't kill Sawyer... i got nuthin. More ambiguous characters who are talking about rules, yay!
We know that the six numbers have been part of the show since the beginning. Hurley's lotto numbers, the code in the hatch, etc - it's always been 4 8 15 16 23 42. That's fine. But why were those six numbers chosen even before the other candidates had been ruled out?
We've seen Claire's number. She was on flight 815, and she's since been ruled out. Was she ruled out before the crash? If so, why was she on the plane? If not, why isn't her number part of the magical group?
Same with Miles. He arrived AFTER the final six. Was he still a candidate when he arrived, or was his name scratched off even before he set foot on the island? Was it something that happened in the time-travel 1970s that removed him, even though that happened to him AFTER he came to the island?
I like that the numbers are being dealt with. I don't like that other members of 815 and characters like Miles also were supposedly candidates, since the final six were apparently narrowed down long before the crash happened.
That or the lotto/hatch code/other stuff is just a big fucking coincidence
If it can be changed, by not ever having the island, then how would he get the numbers? He initially got the numbers from the guy in the nuthouse. It's assumed that guy was on the island at some time. So, even if that guy was put away before the island was gone, he was the one that said the numbers were tainted.
Bah! This is where screwing with time really fucks things up
I wonder if when the right combination of elements and interaction of characters occurs everyone will be free of the island and back in their old lives where the progress they made on the island and the connections they made impact with their new lives.
I dont think the kid was Jacob, I think that was an additional power, representative of the Island's consciousness that is reminding the other of the terms of the compact they made when they first arrived, I suspect Jacob, Richard and the other were the first ones to arrive in the wake of that section of egyptian lore being torn from its rightful place.
It's worth remembering that the title is spiritual, not geographical; so the purpose of everything is to set everyone back on the right track. I suspect that doing so would result in the other being screwed, thats why he fights against the 'right way' of doing things.
Either way it will be fun to find out.
this shit gets weird man:
[ame]
so my guess is that the people listed there, that match up with the numbers, play some part in either ending the world (which makes sense from a MIB point of few), or changing the numbers and saving the human race.
side note:
i feel like i missed out on like 75% of the lost story by not playing in their ARG, the lost experience.
...so what that video is saying, is that in the new parallel reality, the numbers are different? Also, what is this virus thing about? Why introduce it so close to the end?
that info/video has been available since 2006. this isnt new info, its old stuff that you had to uncover via the ARG.
bullshit, flocke! it's probably more important than anything. BUT WHY?
It looks like they explained the numbers a little more. Apparently it's associated with their degree on that dial.
Oh, and Jin is fucked.
Jack is Retarded I hate him.
Hurley Is Bad Ass and probably how I would be if on the Island.
Yeah, he's been expertly crafted as the audience's voice on the show :P.
Be...cause... wheeze... now... it's dramatic... I'll talk... like... this...
He reminds me of Stevie from Malcom in the Middle.
It's good to see the writers passed on his "feel sorry for me, cry a bucket of tears in my belly button attitude, to his son".
Que, The Cats in the Cradle.
Josh I agree, Hugo as always was great.
I don't think anything is wrong with Clair and by extension Sayid, well other than being manipulated by lock-monster and being tortured and stuck on an island. I think she's as batty as Rouso was which was probably normal after being abandoned.
yah, fuck jack. he's turned into such a whiny baby. I did however like how he told Hurley "I was broken, I came back so the island would fix me," really shows how much he really only thinks about himself, despite his actions of wanting to help and save everyone.
Was a little frustrated Jin didn't flat out say "yeah claire... its ok.... Kate took aaron off the island 3 years ago when they left. He's ok," when she started going ape shit with the axe. Maybe she would have killed him then... or maybe it would have spared us 10 minutes of them staring at eachother (flashbacks of the "driving" 24 episodes... where the entire hour is people in fucking cars). Or how she was unimpressed or interested in the fact that Jin now spoke awesome English. What drives these characters to keep secrets in infuriating, their decisions all seem very forced and lame. That, and Hurley being such an amazing dude and character didn't bother to read the names on the dial - but maybe he was doing that because he really doesn't think about his own ambitions first.
I kinda enjoy that Jacob is now telling the candidates not to go to the temple.. but poor Miles