That's still a lot though, depending on your resolution. 4x1024? Have you deleted backfaces? Because I've seen models with internals mapped on less than that.
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Its really not a lot these days. I've seen people use 4096x4096 res textures for a HEAD alone.
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Who?
A lot of graphics cards on the market at the moment (I think mainly ATI, but I might be wrong) can't even load 4096x4096 textures into memory.
Also bear in mind that if a head texture alone is using 4096x4096 pixels, if you viewed that at native resolution of 2560 x 1600 on a 30" widescreen monitor, the head would have to fill up the entire screen before you'd even see that detail. Nobody runs games in 2560x1600, and even if they did, they don't fill the screen with a single face.
4096x4096 for a head is a waste of time. Maybe if you're rendering it for a pre-rendered video with lots of close-ups it'd be worth it, but for a game at current and future specs - no need.
The UT2k4 head textures were 1024x1024 each, and that was a little excessive. They'd have to be filling the whole screen at 1024x768 resolution, or roughly half the screen at 1600x1200 before you'd see all the detail, and that NEVER happens, especially in a game like UT.
That said, I don't think 2048x2048 for a single first-person weapon model is over the top for a current-gen PC FPS game. I just don't think it helps at all trying to justify it by saying "well this other guy I saw used HUGE textures!". That's not a good reason at all.
I never said that was my reason, at all. I said I dont feel 2048x2048 is a bad res at all for a weapon onscreen. Seems your just being picky once again.
As for the 4096x4096, I suggest you download some of FAKEFACTORY's HL2 HD textures.
As for cards that can load 4096x4096, last time I checked cards have been fine doing that res for quite a while now. Its more of an engine limitation these days. My last three nVidia cards have been perfectly fine loading that res.
i'm not a big fan of the 'bigger is better' movement. seems people should learn to use every pixel before going up to the next size. ah well. back to my no-normal-mapping.
yeah....what is up w/that HL 2 dude. look at the ear!! that's a 4096? maybe it's just a horrible map job. s'like the dude just took a forehead photo and slapped it on there. sorry....guess that's not really addressing the point.
Odium: I'd also like to raise the point that a 4096x4096 texture, DXT1 compressed (which is good compression) is still 10.9mb of texture memory.
So, uh, if you have, say, 2 characters with a 4096 for a head each, and another 4096 for the body each, that's 44mb of texture memory for two characters' diffuse maps alone.
If you wanted normal maps for those too, you're looking at 22mb per 4096 DXT5 local map. Specular? Let's say you do it half-resolution DXT1 because it's not as important. Another 2.8mb per sheet.
Right, so a single character made in this fashion, one map for head, one map for body, with diffuse, bump and spec (fairly standard map types these days), would come to approximately 70mb of texture memory. Two unique characters, that's 140mb texture memory. Where are all your environment textures? Your weapon textures? Effects? Skyboxes? Are they all 4096x4096 too?
Hopefully you will see that such high resolutions are not only unnecessary, but foolish. You could not possibly hope to make a full game on current hardware using those specs - you'd just run out of memory all the time, everything would slow down and break.
So yeah, I'm not actually being "picky" as you said, I'm being reasonable and sensible. Your post shows how little you understand about the reality of making games.
Ya know, if instead of some of you bitching about everything thats not what you like, and you actualy gave serious thought into your posts, this place wouldn't be a bad place. Thats not even about the image I posted either, thats just the general attitude I get from here.
A Work in progress thread, to me at least, says "Hey, take a look at what i'm doing. Its not finished yet and your not seeing it all, but I'll show you for feedback!"
My comments regarding texture size were more with respect to the magazine alone taking such a large amount of space.. But it's your model, do what you wish..
You know, regarding view models receiving so much texture resolution, i find that often times such sharpness on the view model relative to the characters/environment really stands out.. I suppose i am talking about texel density here (correct me if i'm wrong). I think a model with a well defined shape goes a long way with a moderate texture resolution. Fluid animations also help make an immersive experience.
Anyway odium i think you should just relax, you're at threat level omega already, people arent out here to get on your case.
FakeFactory does really eh poor job on these "HIRES WTF OMG FTW" textures since they're enlarging originals and stamping some details from other photos...
Odium have never said that he thinks 4096x4096 is ok for a head, he only said that 2048 for a weapon might be ok in some cases and that's not that big problem since he saw ppl use 4096 for head alone.
And to be honest 4096 map for a head is only used in Movies/Cinematics these days, one cg character I remember (forgot the movie's name) was 16000x16000 pixels with head propably taking something around 4k.
In odium's defense, he didn't actually say a 4096 was a good idea, he just used that outlandish size as justification for using higher res textures of his own. Kind of like "who cares what i did, look what HE did"
my only reaction to all of odiums "points" (since almost all of them have sort of negative comment aimed at this forum), is:
if you don't like it here, you know how to close your explorer.
Indian Boy, nice sphere, looks very good, and i can see what you're trying to go for. have you tried modeling a teapot yet? i've been stuck on that for years
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it'll be funny if this thread has to be blocked cuz of a fight. so i'll steer it back on topic:
C&C welcome .
PS:im actually working on something, link in my sig. no, a sphere isn't my idea of art.
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This sucks, worst gameart i've ever seen. Look at all those triangles! How are you going to make 5 million poly zbrush mesh with this? Here, this is how its done.
lol, okay i don't know what's funnier...
so help me out here:
"what is funier" option
a)that i actually did this:
or
b) that post has developed more 'crits and comments' within a few minutes than all my posts in polycount have ever done, on average, put together?
i think 'a)' is funnier...
oh, and i tried optimising it, is it better now? damn this is hard. im thinking of giving up and becoming a plumber instead. anybody know any plumbing universities in toronto?
[ QUOTE ]
lol, okay i don't know what's funnier...
so help me out here:
"what is funier" option
a)that i actually did this:
or
b) that post has developed more 'crits and comments' within a few minutes than all my posts in polycount have ever done, on average, put together?
i think 'a)' is funnier...
oh, and i tried optimising it, is it better now? damn this is hard. im thinking of giving up and becoming a plumber instead. anybody know any plumbing universities in toronto?
[/ QUOTE ]
personally i liked your old model better topology wise, right now it seems that the very ends of your new model have a lot of triangle fanning, which could result in an akward uv map, try to make you model more close to the one above your post.
One of my first experiments with high-poly modeling. And normal-map generation. The first series of images is of the sculpting progression. The last three are different views of the low-poly version that the normal map gets pasted over.
The team leaders of the mod I'm working on wanted a specific species of fish for an easter egg. I got yer fish RIGHT HEAH
131 polys with a 128 texture there. Apparently it's an item for the player to pick up (HL2 mod btw), so I figured 128 was a nice number (soooo close!). I ripped the texture from the ether, so other than that, whatcha think?
Here's a WIP of my next environment piece. It's for one of my all time favourite games. Like my other stuff as of late I've done a little back story to this piece I will post later on. For now, consider it a "Where are they now?" subject piece for an old adventure title.
suppose to be a killer spy drone in a pillbug shape. I took two different colors and did a render cloud filter and then did some difference clouds on it. At first I wanted to let my imagination wonder in it and try to come up with something different but it wasnt clicking so I went with a pill bug body. I made a shell top with an arm comming down the side with a gun attached. And up front there is the lense and at the back there is suppose to be some kind of engine or something. And then ofcourse the lights that extend and move around.
Word to the wise mr.85027 do not use those filters. Espeically on a concept, can we see what it looked like before you threw all that crap on it?
Rwolf, that's looking okay, but it seems a little static. Although there's more movement in that guy than most people who play guitar hero, he at least does a little bit of pelvis moving.
Replies
I think something that tales up half the screen in a high resolution is worth this res.
Its really not a lot these days. I've seen people use 4096x4096 res textures for a HEAD alone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who?
A lot of graphics cards on the market at the moment (I think mainly ATI, but I might be wrong) can't even load 4096x4096 textures into memory.
Also bear in mind that if a head texture alone is using 4096x4096 pixels, if you viewed that at native resolution of 2560 x 1600 on a 30" widescreen monitor, the head would have to fill up the entire screen before you'd even see that detail. Nobody runs games in 2560x1600, and even if they did, they don't fill the screen with a single face.
4096x4096 for a head is a waste of time. Maybe if you're rendering it for a pre-rendered video with lots of close-ups it'd be worth it, but for a game at current and future specs - no need.
The UT2k4 head textures were 1024x1024 each, and that was a little excessive. They'd have to be filling the whole screen at 1024x768 resolution, or roughly half the screen at 1600x1200 before you'd see all the detail, and that NEVER happens, especially in a game like UT.
That said, I don't think 2048x2048 for a single first-person weapon model is over the top for a current-gen PC FPS game. I just don't think it helps at all trying to justify it by saying "well this other guy I saw used HUGE textures!". That's not a good reason at all.
As for the 4096x4096, I suggest you download some of FAKEFACTORY's HL2 HD textures.
For example:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8485/ep1c17050018yy5.jpg
As for cards that can load 4096x4096, last time I checked cards have been fine doing that res for quite a while now. Its more of an engine limitation these days. My last three nVidia cards have been perfectly fine loading that res.
i've seen better on much less
i'm not a big fan of the 'bigger is better' movement. seems people should learn to use every pixel before going up to the next size. ah well. back to my no-normal-mapping.
So, uh, if you have, say, 2 characters with a 4096 for a head each, and another 4096 for the body each, that's 44mb of texture memory for two characters' diffuse maps alone.
If you wanted normal maps for those too, you're looking at 22mb per 4096 DXT5 local map. Specular? Let's say you do it half-resolution DXT1 because it's not as important. Another 2.8mb per sheet.
Right, so a single character made in this fashion, one map for head, one map for body, with diffuse, bump and spec (fairly standard map types these days), would come to approximately 70mb of texture memory. Two unique characters, that's 140mb texture memory. Where are all your environment textures? Your weapon textures? Effects? Skyboxes? Are they all 4096x4096 too?
Hopefully you will see that such high resolutions are not only unnecessary, but foolish. You could not possibly hope to make a full game on current hardware using those specs - you'd just run out of memory all the time, everything would slow down and break.
So yeah, I'm not actually being "picky" as you said, I'm being reasonable and sensible. Your post shows how little you understand about the reality of making games.
A Work in progress thread, to me at least, says "Hey, take a look at what i'm doing. Its not finished yet and your not seeing it all, but I'll show you for feedback!"
I'll be waiting for your apology for being a big headed git in the mean time.
You know, regarding view models receiving so much texture resolution, i find that often times such sharpness on the view model relative to the characters/environment really stands out.. I suppose i am talking about texel density here (correct me if i'm wrong). I think a model with a well defined shape goes a long way with a moderate texture resolution. Fluid animations also help make an immersive experience.
Anyway odium i think you should just relax, you're at threat level omega already, people arent out here to get on your case.
Odium have never said that he thinks 4096x4096 is ok for a head, he only said that 2048 for a weapon might be ok in some cases and that's not that big problem since he saw ppl use 4096 for head alone.
And to be honest 4096 map for a head is only used in Movies/Cinematics these days, one cg character I remember (forgot the movie's name) was 16000x16000 pixels with head propably taking something around 4k.
But, that doesn't mean he's any less of a prick.
C&C welcome
PS:im actually working on something, link in my sig. no, a sphere isn't my idea of art.
if you don't like it here, you know how to close your explorer.
Indian Boy, nice sphere, looks very good, and i can see what you're trying to go for. have you tried modeling a teapot yet? i've been stuck on that for years
it'll be funny if this thread has to be blocked cuz of a fight. so i'll steer it back on topic:
C&C welcome
PS:im actually working on something, link in my sig. no, a sphere isn't my idea of art.
[/ QUOTE ]
This sucks, worst gameart i've ever seen. Look at all those triangles! How are you going to make 5 million poly zbrush mesh with this? Here, this is how its done.
so help me out here:
"what is funier" option
a)that i actually did this:
or
b) that post has developed more 'crits and comments' within a few minutes than all my posts in polycount have ever done, on average, put together?
i think 'a)' is funnier...
oh, and i tried optimising it, is it better now? damn this is hard. im thinking of giving up and becoming a plumber instead. anybody know any plumbing universities in toronto?
lol, okay i don't know what's funnier...
so help me out here:
"what is funier" option
a)that i actually did this:
or
b) that post has developed more 'crits and comments' within a few minutes than all my posts in polycount have ever done, on average, put together?
i think 'a)' is funnier...
oh, and i tried optimising it, is it better now? damn this is hard. im thinking of giving up and becoming a plumber instead. anybody know any plumbing universities in toronto?
[/ QUOTE ]
personally i liked your old model better topology wise, right now it seems that the very ends of your new model have a lot of triangle fanning, which could result in an akward uv map, try to make you model more close to the one above your post.
Edit: also, i vote B!
Last one down:
http://www.schellstudio.com/illustration.htm
Mesh aint that good for mudbox but i'll throw it in there to tweak some, maybe detailing until my last decade hardware gives up.
Sorry no, cant post basemesh. Cant let all my secrets get out now can i?!?!
Sorry no, cant post basemesh. Cant let all my secrets get out now can i?!?!
[/ QUOTE ]
No chance of an sdk?
131 polys with a 128 texture there. Apparently it's an item for the player to pick up (HL2 mod btw), so I figured 128 was a nice number (soooo close!). I ripped the texture from the ether, so other than that, whatcha think?
Guess the game, win a cookie!
Here's a new character (yes he's based on Walter from The Big Lebowski)
What the hell are those drawings of?
I can't tell.
http://student.vfs.com/~3d62trevor/wip/Satyrtest.mov
Rwolf, that's looking okay, but it seems a little static. Although there's more movement in that guy than most people who play guitar hero, he at least does a little bit of pelvis moving.