@DashXero
You could always add more tris where the arms connect to the body, make it a watertight mesh there so you get nice deformation. Generally any area that deforms a lot could always use some more polys ^^
Yep. If I do it right, most times, there's no additional painting to be done. If you look real close at the where the arms meet the body on the high-poly, you'll see that there's actually two separate pieces there: the body and the upper arm. For something like this, I can get away with it because of the way the fur is handled. On a humanoid, like her I'd be able to get away with it because of the sleeves. I can't use the trick on a bare-chested humanoid or creature with pronounced musculature, though. To make it work, just before baking I make sure that the verts on both ends are in the same place, but not welded (which explains why I suspect that the tri count would be reduced further).
Ok ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to turn the serious meter up to eleven.
Over the last month or so I've been talking with valve about the revenue distribution of items in the chest. We've discussed this in the past, but I wanted to dive into the courier side of things seeing as I focus more on couriers than any other type of item.
To put what I've found bluntly, couriers in chest do not receive any of the revenue earned from chest. This was the final email I received that answered my question.
I heard back and this is what I was told:
We don't pay out royalties for unusual couriers. We are under no obligation to pay for items included in crates if they were already listed on the store thats part of our workshop agreement text.
To be extremely clear: Courier aren't dropping as a normal item in these crates. Its dropping as an unusual rare reward. We treat these as a special case.
Personally I don't agree with this, from my point of view, by simply searching various trading websites and forums the unusual couriers are a very sought after item from month to month. I can safely say that there are people who open hundreds of chest just to find these rare items. And from what we've learned in the past, the money earned from chest is all lumped together and divided evenly between the various artist. In my opinion if an item is sought after, and/or drives revenue into the game, those creators should receive some of that revenue. Even though there is the workshop agreement and I can't dispute that, I still feel this is slightly wrong.
I agree with you, wholeheartedly. While I completely understand Valve has every "right" not to pay us for Unusual couriers, it doesn't change the fact that it's a very short-sighted move on their part. People who get a single, common item that took a few hours to make in a chest can make a LOT more money than someone who spent weeks working on a Mythical/Legendary status courier.
This line of sales strategy only hurts people who create couriers, to the point where I personally won't be making any more despite having 2 in the works already.
And please don't get me wrong. I absolutely love making items for Dota 2, but I'm a professional 3d artist. My time IS my money, and being told we're cut from the chests just because of the status given to the item means the risk is too high now.
I guess I'll stick to making sets in my spare time. :P
But you have to understand how many couriers there are, and how many artists that would entail. Perhaps if all the couriers counted as one artist it would work, and then split through that, but when there's hundreds of couriers later on as possible drops from chests (similar to TF2 hats), it's be next to nothing you gain from this.
If you treated them as straight artists, suddenly chest contents would be split between 30+ artists, and the courier makers would be getting a cut from every single chest. Everyone would just want to make couriers instead.
After accomplishing with the goal, we will reward all the participants by giving away 30x Queen of Pain: Succubus Sets, 10x Na`Vi Hoodies and 10x Natus Vincere Jersey 2013/2014 season. Read the giveaway details below and now meet the Queen of Pain: Succubus Set:
Ok ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to turn the serious meter up to eleven.
Over the last month or so I've been talking with valve about the revenue distribution of items in the chest. We've discussed this in the past, but I wanted to dive into the courier side of things seeing as I focus more on couriers than any other type of item.
To put what I've found bluntly, couriers in chest do not receive any of the revenue earned from chest. This was the final email I received that answered my question.
Personally I don't agree with this, from my point of view, by simply searching various trading websites and forums the unusual couriers are a very sought after item from month to month. I can safely say that there are people who open hundreds of chest just to find these rare items. And from what we've learned in the past, the money earned from chest is all lumped together and divided evenly between the various artist. In my opinion if an item is sought after, and/or drives revenue into the game, those creators should receive some of that revenue. Even though there is the workshop agreement and I can't dispute that, I still feel this is slightly wrong.
What do you guys think, do you feel the same way?
Thank you.
im one that open chests looking for couriers =]
on the agreement whe signed, valve can do wherever they want with the couriers, BUT i think its not fair to share at least part of the revenue with everyone that contributed to that chest
Chaemirix have a good point too, but i still dont think its fair*...
Whatever Na'vi is trying to do with that QoP set it certainly involves rigging the votes in their favor, I can only hope Valve catches on. Getting 202 pages of comments in a day on the items upvoting them and calling it the best set of items ever made isn't natural.
Whatever Na'vi is trying to do with that QoP set it certainly involves rigging the votes in their favor, I can only hope Valve catches on. Getting 202 pages of comments in a day on the items upvoting them isn't natural.
After accomplishing with the goal, we will reward all the participants by giving away 30x Queen of Pain: Succubus Sets, 10x Na`Vi Hoodies and 10x Natus Vincere Jersey 2013/2014 season. Read the giveaway details below and now meet the Queen of Pain: Succubus Set
I also find it great that there's not asingle ingame preview in sight.
I think it's fine as it is. Couriers are making enough money already from the store. It would be fair if chest items also would go in the store at some point.
I think it's fine as it is. Couriers are making enough money already from the store. It would be fair if chest items also would go in the store at some point.
Based off the numbers I've been getting for the last four months, I disagree, The one item (Molten Genesis) I had in the chest in January has earned more than I've made with the cluckles and navi courier combined. And thats before the revenue sharing, and the readdition of the January key back to the store. That's one month's sales compared to four. Couriers don't make anywhere near as much money as you think.
And to be clear I am not complaining, but I do think there is a fair discussion to be had about this.
I also think it would be fair to add the chest items to the store as well, they have done it before, but I don't understand why they stopped.
But you have to understand how many couriers there are, and how many artists that would entail. Perhaps if all the couriers counted as one artist it would work, and then split through that, but when there's hundreds of couriers later on as possible drops from chests (similar to TF2 hats), it's be next to nothing you gain from this.
If you treated them as straight artists, suddenly chest contents would be split between 30+ artists, and the courier makers would be getting a cut from every single chest. Everyone would just want to make couriers instead.
That is a good argument as well, but if you breakdown the couriers in the chest you'll find that the only couriers in the chest, starting this year that were made by community members are the following;
Morok's Mechanical Mediary
Tickled Tegu
Na'Vi's Weaselcrow
Cluckles the Brave
Prismatic Drake
And each artist wouldn't be treated individually, but rather the assets as a whole. You aren't looking at 30+, but only five. I wouldn't imagine valve's couriers to be included in the revenue sharing.
There is also a considerable amount of work that needs to be completed for a courier compared to other items in the game.
But they also continue to make money down the road where as chest items do not. It's a lump-sum payment versus a slow sustained income. It's similar to chests vs sets.
But they also continue to make money down the road where as chest items do not. It's a lump-sum payment versus a slow sustained income. It's similar to chests vs sets.
Not anymore, considering they put the old keys back on the store, you can expect chest to be a bit more sustainable.
Andrew is right, couriers were expected to be the highest grossing items because we all assumed they would pay out the chest shares since they require the most work to create. We were wrong, and we've quickly found that courier payouts are way behind items that take a _LOT_ less work to create.
The icing on the cake to this debate is Valve bringing back old chests. That's going to be even more money for single item submissions, and less money (despite more couriers going out) to courier creators. And keep in mind, creating a courier is very much like creating an entire character. Hell, some of us have worked on couriers that utilize more than one form, which ends up being like 4 LOD's. It is a LOT of work that is proving to pay less than just simply flooding the market with single items in hope that one gets picked up for a community chest.
But, it's fine. If Valve doesn't want to pay out on unusual couriers, I'll just stick to making single items and sets. It's waaaaay less work for me, which equals less time and ultimately more money.
i don't know the exact numbers of your couriers, but i based my answer off from this site http://dota2.stats.tf/cat/wearables and both of them made more then i ever got from any chest.
i don't know the exact numbers of your couriers, but i based my answer off from this site http://dota2.stats.tf/cat/wearables and both of them made more then i ever got from any chest.
Those numbers are very far off the actual number. I stopped using that site because it was so inaccurate, you get much better results emailing them and asking directly.
But this is not a matter of numbers, rather that couriers are a sought after item, so sought after that people go out of their way to open chests to find those rare couriers. The couriers pull in some of the revenue of the chest, but none of that goes to the artist that created it. To put it bluntly, in some instances, my work is earning other people money.
I don't believe we should receive a direct cut from the single items in the chest for one month, but I do feel we should earn something if our work is used.
The icing on the cake to this debate is Valve bringing back old chests. That's going to be even more money for single item submissions, and less money (despite more couriers going out) to courier creators.
Ok, what do i know :P You should definitely get money from your hard work. I was just afraid of seeing 20 community couriers getting 50% of the chest revenue every single month.
Wow they couldn't have fucked up this better
This shouldn't get in ffs. Using fanbase in such straight ruthless way should be ignored.
Also, provide in-game screens, goddamnit... There's no way this gonna look good on game engine.
Whoa, look what discussion I walked in to
Progress on my Void set. Got the low-poly done and all my maps baked and ready to texture! Also need to get my LOD1s set up, which caused me to redesign a couple parts.
Wow they couldn't have fucked up this better
This shouldn't get in ffs. Using fanbase in such straight ruthless way should be ignored.
Also, provide in-game screens, goddamnit... There's no way this gonna look good on game engine.
Wow, this really is horrible. Looks like something out of a cheap Disney knock off.
Wow they couldn't have fucked up this better
This shouldn't get in ffs. Using fanbase in such straight ruthless way should be ignored.
Also, provide in-game screens, goddamnit... There's no way this gonna look good on game engine.
Have you ever considered when Na'Vi marketed the set through their website they only linked the collection page? I have no reason to believe the majority of their fan base rarely use or go on the workshop and don't understand that each item has its own page, so they simply up vote the collection page.
Also having worked with esport teams in the past the up vote system is meaningless, Valve asked them to create these sets, how much they get up voted doesn't matter. Its simply a marketing technique to make more people aware of the product.
The ONLY thing I see Na'Vi doing wrong was not providing in game screenshots showing the set is fully complete. But even that doesn't really matter, all that matters is increasing the potential revenue the item can make to allow esport organizations to use the workshop as a viable source of income to aid the already struggling position they are usally in.
I see nothing wrong here, and I kinda like the wings included with the set.
I must say that discussion about couriers don't have any reasonable solution.
There is a place in store that you can buy couriers directly, so Valve could acknowledge that if someone want courier he will buy it directly.
On the other hand having possibility to get courier out from a chest is probably really motivating for some players.
Personally I would buy courier directly. Thing about reverse situation. If Valve bundled your courier with some king of chance to get 1 of 10 items, would you agree to share your revenue with item creators?
Ass for the NaVi set... i don't feel it right. It doesn't have anything to do with Na'Vi, they should chose another hero so at least it would be yellow set Plus ingame screens would't hurt.
Have you ever considered when Na'Vi marketed the set through their website they only linked the collection page? I have no reason to believe the majority of their fan base rarely use or go on the workshop and don't understand that each item has its own page, so they simply up vote the collection page.
Also having worked with esport teams in the past the up vote system is meaningless, Valve asked them to create these sets, how much they get up voted doesn't matter. Its simply a marketing technique to make more people aware of the product.
The ONLY thing I see Na'Vi doing wrong was not providing in game screenshots showing the set is fully complete. But even that doesn't really matter, all that matters is increasing the potential revenue the item can make to allow esport organizations to use the workshop as a viable source of income to aid the already struggling position they are usally in.
I see nothing wrong here, and I kinda like the wings included with the set.
What I see as wrong is that if you or I had made that set on our own, it wouldn't get in (and it would be right not to) but because it has the Navi label slapped on it, it'll get in
What I see as wrong is that if you or I had made that set on our own, it wouldn't get in (and it would be right not to) but because it has the Navi label slapped on it, it'll get in
I agree with this Navi has a lot more weight to throw around when it comes to promoting their own items. If other organisations with the same sort of marketing power move heavily into the workshop space it'll be harder for individuals to get front page spaces.
If it get's in it will simply be because it's Navi.
Design wise I think it's awful.(Although you could argue that is personal taste.) But without any in game screenshots I can only base the quality of the model/texture on their promo image, which is a terrible render done in mental ray or something. As far as I can tell the textures are awful because all I can see is some crappy mental ray metal shader.
If it gets in, in it's current state I will be a little upset. I'd be ok for it to be added if the quality was there, just at this point I don't think it is.
@Helenek
Well that sucks majorly! Thanks for putting in the effort for finding that out! I feel like even if a courier is a "special" chest drop that only has a 1% chance of dropping, then the artist should still get their share of that 1%. Granted, it's not much, but it's a hell of a lot more than 0 :S
I see nothing wrong here, and I kinda like the wings included with the set.
Valve asked them to create these sets.
That's what is wrong to begin with. Because no matter how crappy their items will be, they'll get in. If you ask me, it's wrong. Valve should do such promotional stuff themselves if they're asking about it.
What would be nice is if Helenek never needed to go through all that extra crap to find out that couriers get shafted. Why does Valve feel the need to play cloak and dagger with contributor financials? Just give all the info in a detailed breakdown page, can't be more than 15 mins worth of work to upload a document their payroll department has lying around somewhere.
What would be nice is if Helenek never needed to go through all that extra crap to find out that couriers get shafted. Why does Valve feel the need to play cloak and dagger with contributor financials? Just give all the info in a detailed breakdown page, can't be more than 15 mins worth of work to upload a document their payroll department has lying around somewhere.
Us having that info will potentially ruin the contributions, as lots of people will just go for the money, instead of doing what they do for the fun / challenge aspect of it, with a added incentive if it gets put in. Although its not a secret where the highest profit is for time spent, chests.
Sucks to hear about couriers as I just had mine get in (kupu), but it makes sense, they're expensive, support buy the couriers (with sets u pick the hero because u want to play it, with a courier if you're support you will maybe get to see it).
Not to mention the insane competition for couriers with some awesome couriers being bundled with tourney tickets, international compendium and even the free greevils everyone got (They're pretty awesome upgraded).
Us having that info will potentially ruin the contributions, as lots of people will just go for the money, instead of doing what they do for the fun / challenge aspect of it, with a added incentive if it gets put in. Although its not a secret where the highest profit is for time spent, chests.
The people that are making items for the money are already there, and will always be there, lack of information or not. The rest can go on with making art for the sake of art. And I imagine for most people it's hardly black and white, and the truth is somewhere in the middle - where one depends on any extra income they can get, where it just so happens they can get that income by making art they enjoy. More transparency will help us avoid more nasty surprises like with the couriers.
All this comes to light the moment I finish working on a courier? Typical. Good thing I'm one of those "making stuff for the fun of it" people (at least for now!), eh?
It's still kind of strange that VALVe aren't more open about this sort of thing, I see no reason why they would choose not to be.
It can be many things I guess. However try those:
- skin cape to only one bone and check if that will help (maybe those 2 tris don't have proper weights)
- apply flat uvw and check if that helped
- check normals for those triangles, if somehow they have flipped normals they will shade black
- check normalmap if there are values <127 on blue channel such things could happen.
- remove are around those tris and rebuild it, it should be pretty easy to adjust UVW and geo if you removed only few triangles
Hope one of those will help
Found the problem, it was just a simple UV mistake, the triangles wasn't in the scope of any texture, that's what happens when I don't pay attention to my high poly UV's. Thanks for the help.
All this comes to light the moment I finish working on a courier? Typical. Good thing I'm one of those "making stuff for the fun of it" people (at least for now!), eh?
Quite a similar position here, hehe ^^ But yeah, Valve has historically been incredibly cryptic or flat out silent in their communication of those kinds of things.
For what it's worth I emailed Valve finance a week or two ago asking if there was any possible invoice I could get and this was their response:
"Im sorry Ben, this is not something that we do. We are working to try to get online reporting but its not ready yet."
Hopefully we'll have online reporting soon
You gotta be persistent with it, it took five or six weeks of pestering emails before I finally got a response, now I get monthly breakdowns of every item. The more I involve myself with valve, the less I want to actually involve myself. Which sucks because I love valve, Ive been using steam since it began. But it is very difficult to work with these people.
What I see as wrong is that if you or I had made that set on our own, it wouldn't get in (and it would be right not to) but because it has the Navi label slapped on it, it'll get in
Like the Na'Vi courier, the animations are rubbish. Thats what happens when your given eight hours to do eight animations. Whats worst is valve being quite for six months then just throwing it into the game, you'd think they'd come back to us and say clean it up. But thats Valve for you. Now I have to live with it, oh well, haha.
Think about reverse situation. If Valve bundled your courier with some king of chance to get 1 of 10 items, would you agree to share your revenue with item creators./QUOTE]
Simply put, yes. If an artist work is being used that artist should receive some sort of compensation.
@Andrew
If that is the case, can't you update animations and send file to Valve and say "hey, made better animations, they are super cool, please check theme out and maybe replace if that is possible". Or just ask if that's possible. I can imagine that knowing there is something in game that you could done better, and what you are not proud of must be depressing. They can think that you don't have time/will to update animations and thus they did't ask.
@Andrew
If that is the case, can't you update animations and send file to Valve and say "hey, made better animations, they are super cool, please check theme out and maybe replace if that is possible". Or just ask if that's possible. I can imagine that knowing there is something in game that you could done better, and what you are not proud of must be depressing. They can think that you don't have time/will to update animations and thus they did't ask.
The courier was such a mesh when we did it, we were only given 24 hours to complete it in order to have them showcased during the international. This is something Ive recently been looking into. Although time is a bit of a luxury for me now.
Hmm, I thought there might be a problem with the courier payout, that's kinda sad. I had been wanting to make a courier with an animator friend of mine, but keep getting sidetracked by sets. Couriers look so much harder to do, what with the rigging and animations, than a single item. Sorry to hear that doesn't work out financially...
As far as Na'vi bribing people to vote for their set, it doesn't really matter. They're in a position where they can do that, so they did. I don't like it, that's for sure, but it's no different than Cyborgmatt putting his name on a courier (even if I did like that courier a lot). This is just the evolution of people in positions of power within the community sponsoring an item for exposure. I expect to see more of this.
I do wish the QoP set looked textured instead of flat filled with a lot of procedural generated materials in 3ds max.
I wouldn't mind so much if i found out that Valve required them to make it up to par before it gets into the game. I don't really care if visible figures in the community endorse one item or another - so long as that doesn't mean it gets into the game regardless of quality. We'll have to wait and see what happens i think - because the simple fact is that if that set just went into the workshop as is without any endorsement it would sink to the bottom like a rock.
Like the Na'Vi courier, the animations are rubbish. Thats what happens when your given eight hours to do eight animations. Whats worst is valve being quite for six months then just throwing it into the game, you'd think they'd come back to us and say clean it up. But thats Valve for you. Now I have to live with it, oh well, haha.
That's really the biggest problem I have with the workshop as it is right now, the complete lack of communication. Don't get me wrong, I love the workshop but sometimes it feels like playing the lottery
Simply put, yes. If an artist work is being used that artist should receive some sort of compensation.
I don't really care if visible figures in the community endorse one item or another - so long as that doesn't mean it gets into the game regardless of quality.
That's really the biggest problem I have with the workshop as it is right now, the complete lack of communication. Don't get me wrong, I love the workshop but sometimes it feels like playing the lottery
Yes, pretty much it. The difference is that you spend much more time doing an item/set than just filling random numbers in a paper =P
Replies
You could always add more tris where the arms connect to the body, make it a watertight mesh there so you get nice deformation. Generally any area that deforms a lot could always use some more polys ^^
Thanks. I forgot to mention that I'll wind up doing that after baking... Which will probably bring the tri count down a bit further.
I usually build arms separate to keep them clean during bakes.
Over the last month or so I've been talking with valve about the revenue distribution of items in the chest. We've discussed this in the past, but I wanted to dive into the courier side of things seeing as I focus more on couriers than any other type of item.
To put what I've found bluntly, couriers in chest do not receive any of the revenue earned from chest. This was the final email I received that answered my question.
Personally I don't agree with this, from my point of view, by simply searching various trading websites and forums the unusual couriers are a very sought after item from month to month. I can safely say that there are people who open hundreds of chest just to find these rare items. And from what we've learned in the past, the money earned from chest is all lumped together and divided evenly between the various artist. In my opinion if an item is sought after, and/or drives revenue into the game, those creators should receive some of that revenue. Even though there is the workshop agreement and I can't dispute that, I still feel this is slightly wrong.
What do you guys think, do you feel the same way?
Thank you.
This line of sales strategy only hurts people who create couriers, to the point where I personally won't be making any more despite having 2 in the works already.
And please don't get me wrong. I absolutely love making items for Dota 2, but I'm a professional 3d artist. My time IS my money, and being told we're cut from the chests just because of the status given to the item means the risk is too high now.
I guess I'll stick to making sets in my spare time. :P
If you treated them as straight artists, suddenly chest contents would be split between 30+ artists, and the courier makers would be getting a cut from every single chest. Everyone would just want to make couriers instead.
im one that open chests looking for couriers =]
on the agreement whe signed, valve can do wherever they want with the couriers, BUT i think its not fair to share at least part of the revenue with everyone that contributed to that chest
Chaemirix have a good point too, but i still dont think its fair*...
*but im not complaining, love you valve =]
http://navi-gaming.com/news_show.php?news_id=13492
I also find it great that there's not asingle ingame preview in sight.
Based off the numbers I've been getting for the last four months, I disagree, The one item (Molten Genesis) I had in the chest in January has earned more than I've made with the cluckles and navi courier combined. And thats before the revenue sharing, and the readdition of the January key back to the store. That's one month's sales compared to four. Couriers don't make anywhere near as much money as you think.
And to be clear I am not complaining, but I do think there is a fair discussion to be had about this.
I also think it would be fair to add the chest items to the store as well, they have done it before, but I don't understand why they stopped.
That is a good argument as well, but if you breakdown the couriers in the chest you'll find that the only couriers in the chest, starting this year that were made by community members are the following;
Morok's Mechanical Mediary
Tickled Tegu
Na'Vi's Weaselcrow
Cluckles the Brave
Prismatic Drake
And each artist wouldn't be treated individually, but rather the assets as a whole. You aren't looking at 30+, but only five. I wouldn't imagine valve's couriers to be included in the revenue sharing.
There is also a considerable amount of work that needs to be completed for a courier compared to other items in the game.
Not anymore, considering they put the old keys back on the store, you can expect chest to be a bit more sustainable.
The icing on the cake to this debate is Valve bringing back old chests. That's going to be even more money for single item submissions, and less money (despite more couriers going out) to courier creators. And keep in mind, creating a courier is very much like creating an entire character. Hell, some of us have worked on couriers that utilize more than one form, which ends up being like 4 LOD's. It is a LOT of work that is proving to pay less than just simply flooding the market with single items in hope that one gets picked up for a community chest.
But, it's fine. If Valve doesn't want to pay out on unusual couriers, I'll just stick to making single items and sets. It's waaaaay less work for me, which equals less time and ultimately more money.
Those numbers are very far off the actual number. I stopped using that site because it was so inaccurate, you get much better results emailing them and asking directly.
But this is not a matter of numbers, rather that couriers are a sought after item, so sought after that people go out of their way to open chests to find those rare couriers. The couriers pull in some of the revenue of the chest, but none of that goes to the artist that created it. To put it bluntly, in some instances, my work is earning other people money.
I don't believe we should receive a direct cut from the single items in the chest for one month, but I do feel we should earn something if our work is used.
Bewsii is right on the money with that comment.
Collection: 5000 votes.
Average item: 200 votes.
Wow they couldn't have fucked up this better
This shouldn't get in ffs. Using fanbase in such straight ruthless way should be ignored.
Also, provide in-game screens, goddamnit... There's no way this gonna look good on game engine.
Progress on my Void set. Got the low-poly done and all my maps baked and ready to texture! Also need to get my LOD1s set up, which caused me to redesign a couple parts.
Wow, this really is horrible. Looks like something out of a cheap Disney knock off.
Have you ever considered when Na'Vi marketed the set through their website they only linked the collection page? I have no reason to believe the majority of their fan base rarely use or go on the workshop and don't understand that each item has its own page, so they simply up vote the collection page.
Also having worked with esport teams in the past the up vote system is meaningless, Valve asked them to create these sets, how much they get up voted doesn't matter. Its simply a marketing technique to make more people aware of the product.
The ONLY thing I see Na'Vi doing wrong was not providing in game screenshots showing the set is fully complete. But even that doesn't really matter, all that matters is increasing the potential revenue the item can make to allow esport organizations to use the workshop as a viable source of income to aid the already struggling position they are usally in.
I see nothing wrong here, and I kinda like the wings included with the set.
There is a place in store that you can buy couriers directly, so Valve could acknowledge that if someone want courier he will buy it directly.
On the other hand having possibility to get courier out from a chest is probably really motivating for some players.
Personally I would buy courier directly. Thing about reverse situation. If Valve bundled your courier with some king of chance to get 1 of 10 items, would you agree to share your revenue with item creators?
Ass for the NaVi set... i don't feel it right. It doesn't have anything to do with Na'Vi, they should chose another hero so at least it would be yellow set
What I see as wrong is that if you or I had made that set on our own, it wouldn't get in (and it would be right not to) but because it has the Navi label slapped on it, it'll get in
I agree with this Navi has a lot more weight to throw around when it comes to promoting their own items. If other organisations with the same sort of marketing power move heavily into the workshop space it'll be harder for individuals to get front page spaces.
Design wise I think it's awful.(Although you could argue that is personal taste.) But without any in game screenshots I can only base the quality of the model/texture on their promo image, which is a terrible render done in mental ray or something. As far as I can tell the textures are awful because all I can see is some crappy mental ray metal shader.
If it gets in, in it's current state I will be a little upset. I'd be ok for it to be added if the quality was there, just at this point I don't think it is.
Well that sucks majorly! Thanks for putting in the effort for finding that out! I feel like even if a courier is a "special" chest drop that only has a 1% chance of dropping, then the artist should still get their share of that 1%. Granted, it's not much, but it's a hell of a lot more than 0 :S
That's what is wrong to begin with. Because no matter how crappy their items will be, they'll get in. If you ask me, it's wrong. Valve should do such promotional stuff themselves if they're asking about it.
That's fine, but there should still be a certain level of quality they they have to abide by.
Us having that info will potentially ruin the contributions, as lots of people will just go for the money, instead of doing what they do for the fun / challenge aspect of it, with a added incentive if it gets put in. Although its not a secret where the highest profit is for time spent, chests.
Sucks to hear about couriers as I just had mine get in (kupu), but it makes sense, they're expensive, support buy the couriers (with sets u pick the hero because u want to play it, with a courier if you're support you will maybe get to see it).
Not to mention the insane competition for couriers with some awesome couriers being bundled with tourney tickets, international compendium and even the free greevils everyone got (They're pretty awesome upgraded).
"I’m sorry Ben, this is not something that we do. We are working to try to get online reporting but it’s not ready yet."
Hopefully we'll have online reporting soon
The people that are making items for the money are already there, and will always be there, lack of information or not. The rest can go on with making art for the sake of art. And I imagine for most people it's hardly black and white, and the truth is somewhere in the middle - where one depends on any extra income they can get, where it just so happens they can get that income by making art they enjoy. More transparency will help us avoid more nasty surprises like with the couriers.
It's still kind of strange that VALVe aren't more open about this sort of thing, I see no reason why they would choose not to be.
Found the problem, it was just a simple UV mistake, the triangles wasn't in the scope of any texture, that's what happens when I don't pay attention to my high poly UV's. Thanks for the help.
Quite a similar position here, hehe ^^ But yeah, Valve has historically been incredibly cryptic or flat out silent in their communication of those kinds of things.
You gotta be persistent with it, it took five or six weeks of pestering emails before I finally got a response, now I get monthly breakdowns of every item. The more I involve myself with valve, the less I want to actually involve myself. Which sucks because I love valve, Ive been using steam since it began. But it is very difficult to work with these people.
Like the Na'Vi courier, the animations are rubbish. Thats what happens when your given eight hours to do eight animations. Whats worst is valve being quite for six months then just throwing it into the game, you'd think they'd come back to us and say clean it up. But thats Valve for you. Now I have to live with it, oh well, haha.
If that is the case, can't you update animations and send file to Valve and say "hey, made better animations, they are super cool, please check theme out and maybe replace if that is possible". Or just ask if that's possible. I can imagine that knowing there is something in game that you could done better, and what you are not proud of must be depressing. They can think that you don't have time/will to update animations and thus they did't ask.
The courier was such a mesh when we did it, we were only given 24 hours to complete it in order to have them showcased during the international. This is something Ive recently been looking into. Although time is a bit of a luxury for me now.
As far as Na'vi bribing people to vote for their set, it doesn't really matter. They're in a position where they can do that, so they did. I don't like it, that's for sure, but it's no different than Cyborgmatt putting his name on a courier (even if I did like that courier a lot). This is just the evolution of people in positions of power within the community sponsoring an item for exposure. I expect to see more of this.
I do wish the QoP set looked textured instead of flat filled with a lot of procedural generated materials in 3ds max.
100% agree.
This is what it all boils down to.
Yes, pretty much it. The difference is that you spend much more time doing an item/set than just filling random numbers in a paper =P