In my own adventures I've learned to bake to a mesh pre-optimized to lod0 . Specifically maintaining curves with supporting edge loops. One just has to keep in mind what's likely to be deleted when laying out uvs as deleting a seam will scramble them
So I have this problem with geometry, there is 3 black triangles on Rubick's cape (the third is only visible when Rubick animates) and I don't know why it shows, anyone had this before?
And the rest of them are looking really out of place not just in Dota 2, but even on the workshop with the designs being over the top and really unfitting. As one of my friends pointed out "i am slightly worried that these were 'designed' by professionals" and i couldn't agree more.
I've got lunch with them next week to talk about the workshop stuff they've been doing to give feedback and what not (I work at weta digital, weta workshop handles the dota2 stuff).
So hopefully after that there will be some better direction / more fitting items, I think they're approaching it like TF2 where the items are rather goofy, but dota of course has very strict art style / lore to follow.
So I have this problem with geometry, there is 3 black triangles on Rubick's cape (the third is only visible when Rubick animates) and I don't know why it shows, anyone had this before?
I've got lunch with them next week to talk about the workshop stuff they've been doing to give feedback and what not (I work at weta digital, weta workshop handles the dota2 stuff).
So hopefully after that there will be some better direction / more fitting items, I think they're approaching it like TF2 where the items are rather goofy, but dota of course has very strict art style / lore to follow.
Kebab sord is beyond goofy! Tell them to check the store first and read the Valve guidelines, i hope they'll fit better into the Dota2 style!
It is the cape, but why does it display black triangles?
It can be many things I guess. However try those:
- skin cape to only one bone and check if that will help (maybe those 2 tris don't have proper weights)
- apply flat uvw and check if that helped
- check normals for those triangles, if somehow they have flipped normals they will shade black
- check normalmap if there are values <127 on blue channel such things could happen.
- remove are around those tris and rebuild it, it should be pretty easy to adjust UVW and geo if you removed only few triangles
Hope one of those will help
I decided to check out the last page of the "most popular" workshop page and now i'm 100% positive that there's something very wrong with the new algorithm.
92% positive rating and stuff
I decided to check out the last page of the "most popular" workshop page and now i'm 100% positive that there's something very wrong with the new algorithm.
92% positive rating and stuff
Going off of Vlad's, compiled this list last Thursday after noticing that the collection rankings weren't adding up. Submitted to Dota dev, but no replies yet.
@Oroboros Maybe that has something to do with downvotes? As a matter of fact it's weird that there is no collection stats page, or maybe I am blind however I can't see it anywhere...
Going off of Vlad's, compiled this list last Thursday after noticing that the collection rankings weren't adding up. Submitted to Dota dev, but no replies yet.
I think the collections are moving in a slightly different way. The vote/day ratio plays a big part on the page positioning of the submissions, but it seems that the scale of that ratio is turned way down. So the top stuff is stuck at the daily top9 visitors, while the 2-3 page is grasping those curious enough who check out the page 2 or the most recent.
Unless you get something like a 100 vote boost in a very short span you're doomed to bump around until some of the top stuff sinks.
Greenlight is handled way better, i think adopting something from there is a good idea. Easier and quicker navigation.
All right... I need some help here. I've got a problem. Good news... Rat has been retopped, and I have a LoD1 model. Bad news... I have about 100-600 unused triangles. Gotta figure out good places to add more tris...
This seems to happen with me often when dealing with multiple LoDs. How can I prevent this in the future?
@DashXero
You could always add more tris where the arms connect to the body, make it a watertight mesh there so you get nice deformation. Generally any area that deforms a lot could always use some more polys ^^
Yep. If I do it right, most times, there's no additional painting to be done. If you look real close at the where the arms meet the body on the high-poly, you'll see that there's actually two separate pieces there: the body and the upper arm. For something like this, I can get away with it because of the way the fur is handled. On a humanoid, like her I'd be able to get away with it because of the sleeves. I can't use the trick on a bare-chested humanoid or creature with pronounced musculature, though. To make it work, just before baking I make sure that the verts on both ends are in the same place, but not welded (which explains why I suspect that the tri count would be reduced further).
Ok ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to turn the serious meter up to eleven.
Over the last month or so I've been talking with valve about the revenue distribution of items in the chest. We've discussed this in the past, but I wanted to dive into the courier side of things seeing as I focus more on couriers than any other type of item.
To put what I've found bluntly, couriers in chest do not receive any of the revenue earned from chest. This was the final email I received that answered my question.
I heard back and this is what I was told:
We don't pay out royalties for unusual couriers. We are under no obligation to pay for items included in crates if they were already listed on the store thats part of our workshop agreement text.
To be extremely clear: Courier aren't dropping as a normal item in these crates. Its dropping as an unusual rare reward. We treat these as a special case.
Personally I don't agree with this, from my point of view, by simply searching various trading websites and forums the unusual couriers are a very sought after item from month to month. I can safely say that there are people who open hundreds of chest just to find these rare items. And from what we've learned in the past, the money earned from chest is all lumped together and divided evenly between the various artist. In my opinion if an item is sought after, and/or drives revenue into the game, those creators should receive some of that revenue. Even though there is the workshop agreement and I can't dispute that, I still feel this is slightly wrong.
I agree with you, wholeheartedly. While I completely understand Valve has every "right" not to pay us for Unusual couriers, it doesn't change the fact that it's a very short-sighted move on their part. People who get a single, common item that took a few hours to make in a chest can make a LOT more money than someone who spent weeks working on a Mythical/Legendary status courier.
This line of sales strategy only hurts people who create couriers, to the point where I personally won't be making any more despite having 2 in the works already.
And please don't get me wrong. I absolutely love making items for Dota 2, but I'm a professional 3d artist. My time IS my money, and being told we're cut from the chests just because of the status given to the item means the risk is too high now.
I guess I'll stick to making sets in my spare time. :P
But you have to understand how many couriers there are, and how many artists that would entail. Perhaps if all the couriers counted as one artist it would work, and then split through that, but when there's hundreds of couriers later on as possible drops from chests (similar to TF2 hats), it's be next to nothing you gain from this.
If you treated them as straight artists, suddenly chest contents would be split between 30+ artists, and the courier makers would be getting a cut from every single chest. Everyone would just want to make couriers instead.
After accomplishing with the goal, we will reward all the participants by giving away 30x Queen of Pain: Succubus Sets, 10x Na`Vi Hoodies and 10x Natus Vincere Jersey 2013/2014 season. Read the giveaway details below and now meet the Queen of Pain: Succubus Set:
Ok ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to turn the serious meter up to eleven.
Over the last month or so I've been talking with valve about the revenue distribution of items in the chest. We've discussed this in the past, but I wanted to dive into the courier side of things seeing as I focus more on couriers than any other type of item.
To put what I've found bluntly, couriers in chest do not receive any of the revenue earned from chest. This was the final email I received that answered my question.
Personally I don't agree with this, from my point of view, by simply searching various trading websites and forums the unusual couriers are a very sought after item from month to month. I can safely say that there are people who open hundreds of chest just to find these rare items. And from what we've learned in the past, the money earned from chest is all lumped together and divided evenly between the various artist. In my opinion if an item is sought after, and/or drives revenue into the game, those creators should receive some of that revenue. Even though there is the workshop agreement and I can't dispute that, I still feel this is slightly wrong.
What do you guys think, do you feel the same way?
Thank you.
im one that open chests looking for couriers =]
on the agreement whe signed, valve can do wherever they want with the couriers, BUT i think its not fair to share at least part of the revenue with everyone that contributed to that chest
Chaemirix have a good point too, but i still dont think its fair*...
Whatever Na'vi is trying to do with that QoP set it certainly involves rigging the votes in their favor, I can only hope Valve catches on. Getting 202 pages of comments in a day on the items upvoting them and calling it the best set of items ever made isn't natural.
Whatever Na'vi is trying to do with that QoP set it certainly involves rigging the votes in their favor, I can only hope Valve catches on. Getting 202 pages of comments in a day on the items upvoting them isn't natural.
After accomplishing with the goal, we will reward all the participants by giving away 30x Queen of Pain: Succubus Sets, 10x Na`Vi Hoodies and 10x Natus Vincere Jersey 2013/2014 season. Read the giveaway details below and now meet the Queen of Pain: Succubus Set
I also find it great that there's not asingle ingame preview in sight.
I think it's fine as it is. Couriers are making enough money already from the store. It would be fair if chest items also would go in the store at some point.
I think it's fine as it is. Couriers are making enough money already from the store. It would be fair if chest items also would go in the store at some point.
Based off the numbers I've been getting for the last four months, I disagree, The one item (Molten Genesis) I had in the chest in January has earned more than I've made with the cluckles and navi courier combined. And thats before the revenue sharing, and the readdition of the January key back to the store. That's one month's sales compared to four. Couriers don't make anywhere near as much money as you think.
And to be clear I am not complaining, but I do think there is a fair discussion to be had about this.
I also think it would be fair to add the chest items to the store as well, they have done it before, but I don't understand why they stopped.
But you have to understand how many couriers there are, and how many artists that would entail. Perhaps if all the couriers counted as one artist it would work, and then split through that, but when there's hundreds of couriers later on as possible drops from chests (similar to TF2 hats), it's be next to nothing you gain from this.
If you treated them as straight artists, suddenly chest contents would be split between 30+ artists, and the courier makers would be getting a cut from every single chest. Everyone would just want to make couriers instead.
That is a good argument as well, but if you breakdown the couriers in the chest you'll find that the only couriers in the chest, starting this year that were made by community members are the following;
Morok's Mechanical Mediary
Tickled Tegu
Na'Vi's Weaselcrow
Cluckles the Brave
Prismatic Drake
And each artist wouldn't be treated individually, but rather the assets as a whole. You aren't looking at 30+, but only five. I wouldn't imagine valve's couriers to be included in the revenue sharing.
There is also a considerable amount of work that needs to be completed for a courier compared to other items in the game.
But they also continue to make money down the road where as chest items do not. It's a lump-sum payment versus a slow sustained income. It's similar to chests vs sets.
But they also continue to make money down the road where as chest items do not. It's a lump-sum payment versus a slow sustained income. It's similar to chests vs sets.
Not anymore, considering they put the old keys back on the store, you can expect chest to be a bit more sustainable.
Andrew is right, couriers were expected to be the highest grossing items because we all assumed they would pay out the chest shares since they require the most work to create. We were wrong, and we've quickly found that courier payouts are way behind items that take a _LOT_ less work to create.
The icing on the cake to this debate is Valve bringing back old chests. That's going to be even more money for single item submissions, and less money (despite more couriers going out) to courier creators. And keep in mind, creating a courier is very much like creating an entire character. Hell, some of us have worked on couriers that utilize more than one form, which ends up being like 4 LOD's. It is a LOT of work that is proving to pay less than just simply flooding the market with single items in hope that one gets picked up for a community chest.
But, it's fine. If Valve doesn't want to pay out on unusual couriers, I'll just stick to making single items and sets. It's waaaaay less work for me, which equals less time and ultimately more money.
i don't know the exact numbers of your couriers, but i based my answer off from this site http://dota2.stats.tf/cat/wearables and both of them made more then i ever got from any chest.
i don't know the exact numbers of your couriers, but i based my answer off from this site http://dota2.stats.tf/cat/wearables and both of them made more then i ever got from any chest.
Those numbers are very far off the actual number. I stopped using that site because it was so inaccurate, you get much better results emailing them and asking directly.
But this is not a matter of numbers, rather that couriers are a sought after item, so sought after that people go out of their way to open chests to find those rare couriers. The couriers pull in some of the revenue of the chest, but none of that goes to the artist that created it. To put it bluntly, in some instances, my work is earning other people money.
I don't believe we should receive a direct cut from the single items in the chest for one month, but I do feel we should earn something if our work is used.
The icing on the cake to this debate is Valve bringing back old chests. That's going to be even more money for single item submissions, and less money (despite more couriers going out) to courier creators.
Ok, what do i know :P You should definitely get money from your hard work. I was just afraid of seeing 20 community couriers getting 50% of the chest revenue every single month.
Wow they couldn't have fucked up this better
This shouldn't get in ffs. Using fanbase in such straight ruthless way should be ignored.
Also, provide in-game screens, goddamnit... There's no way this gonna look good on game engine.
Whoa, look what discussion I walked in to
Progress on my Void set. Got the low-poly done and all my maps baked and ready to texture! Also need to get my LOD1s set up, which caused me to redesign a couple parts.
Wow they couldn't have fucked up this better
This shouldn't get in ffs. Using fanbase in such straight ruthless way should be ignored.
Also, provide in-game screens, goddamnit... There's no way this gonna look good on game engine.
Wow, this really is horrible. Looks like something out of a cheap Disney knock off.
Wow they couldn't have fucked up this better
This shouldn't get in ffs. Using fanbase in such straight ruthless way should be ignored.
Also, provide in-game screens, goddamnit... There's no way this gonna look good on game engine.
Have you ever considered when Na'Vi marketed the set through their website they only linked the collection page? I have no reason to believe the majority of their fan base rarely use or go on the workshop and don't understand that each item has its own page, so they simply up vote the collection page.
Also having worked with esport teams in the past the up vote system is meaningless, Valve asked them to create these sets, how much they get up voted doesn't matter. Its simply a marketing technique to make more people aware of the product.
The ONLY thing I see Na'Vi doing wrong was not providing in game screenshots showing the set is fully complete. But even that doesn't really matter, all that matters is increasing the potential revenue the item can make to allow esport organizations to use the workshop as a viable source of income to aid the already struggling position they are usally in.
I see nothing wrong here, and I kinda like the wings included with the set.
I must say that discussion about couriers don't have any reasonable solution.
There is a place in store that you can buy couriers directly, so Valve could acknowledge that if someone want courier he will buy it directly.
On the other hand having possibility to get courier out from a chest is probably really motivating for some players.
Personally I would buy courier directly. Thing about reverse situation. If Valve bundled your courier with some king of chance to get 1 of 10 items, would you agree to share your revenue with item creators?
Ass for the NaVi set... i don't feel it right. It doesn't have anything to do with Na'Vi, they should chose another hero so at least it would be yellow set Plus ingame screens would't hurt.
Have you ever considered when Na'Vi marketed the set through their website they only linked the collection page? I have no reason to believe the majority of their fan base rarely use or go on the workshop and don't understand that each item has its own page, so they simply up vote the collection page.
Also having worked with esport teams in the past the up vote system is meaningless, Valve asked them to create these sets, how much they get up voted doesn't matter. Its simply a marketing technique to make more people aware of the product.
The ONLY thing I see Na'Vi doing wrong was not providing in game screenshots showing the set is fully complete. But even that doesn't really matter, all that matters is increasing the potential revenue the item can make to allow esport organizations to use the workshop as a viable source of income to aid the already struggling position they are usally in.
I see nothing wrong here, and I kinda like the wings included with the set.
What I see as wrong is that if you or I had made that set on our own, it wouldn't get in (and it would be right not to) but because it has the Navi label slapped on it, it'll get in
What I see as wrong is that if you or I had made that set on our own, it wouldn't get in (and it would be right not to) but because it has the Navi label slapped on it, it'll get in
I agree with this Navi has a lot more weight to throw around when it comes to promoting their own items. If other organisations with the same sort of marketing power move heavily into the workshop space it'll be harder for individuals to get front page spaces.
If it get's in it will simply be because it's Navi.
Design wise I think it's awful.(Although you could argue that is personal taste.) But without any in game screenshots I can only base the quality of the model/texture on their promo image, which is a terrible render done in mental ray or something. As far as I can tell the textures are awful because all I can see is some crappy mental ray metal shader.
If it gets in, in it's current state I will be a little upset. I'd be ok for it to be added if the quality was there, just at this point I don't think it is.
Replies
:O
I've got lunch with them next week to talk about the workshop stuff they've been doing to give feedback and what not (I work at weta digital, weta workshop handles the dota2 stuff).
So hopefully after that there will be some better direction / more fitting items, I think they're approaching it like TF2 where the items are rather goofy, but dota of course has very strict art style / lore to follow.
Kebab sord is beyond goofy! Tell them to check the store first and read the Valve guidelines, i hope they'll fit better into the Dota2 style!
It is the cape, but why does it display black triangles?
:thumbdown:
ty! i made an alpha but its not appearing on the modelviewer, probably wrong file extension =]
dafuq i just read?
"Can we set a 10 000 likes record?
- skin cape to only one bone and check if that will help (maybe those 2 tris don't have proper weights)
- apply flat uvw and check if that helped
- check normals for those triangles, if somehow they have flipped normals they will shade black
- check normalmap if there are values <127 on blue channel such things could happen.
- remove are around those tris and rebuild it, it should be pretty easy to adjust UVW and geo if you removed only few triangles
Hope one of those will help
Way ahead of me, but other than that its looking really nice. I love the blue orange contrast between the bird and the cat.
92% positive rating and stuff
Looks about right :poly124:
Unless you get something like a 100 vote boost in a very short span you're doomed to bump around until some of the top stuff sinks.
Greenlight is handled way better, i think adopting something from there is a good idea. Easier and quicker navigation.
Made a model today, super excited to see it not even reaching the first page.
No chest contents? Hmmmm
All right... I need some help here. I've got a problem. Good news... Rat has been retopped, and I have a LoD1 model. Bad news... I have about 100-600 unused triangles. Gotta figure out good places to add more tris...
This seems to happen with me often when dealing with multiple LoDs. How can I prevent this in the future?
You could always add more tris where the arms connect to the body, make it a watertight mesh there so you get nice deformation. Generally any area that deforms a lot could always use some more polys ^^
Thanks. I forgot to mention that I'll wind up doing that after baking... Which will probably bring the tri count down a bit further.
I usually build arms separate to keep them clean during bakes.
Over the last month or so I've been talking with valve about the revenue distribution of items in the chest. We've discussed this in the past, but I wanted to dive into the courier side of things seeing as I focus more on couriers than any other type of item.
To put what I've found bluntly, couriers in chest do not receive any of the revenue earned from chest. This was the final email I received that answered my question.
Personally I don't agree with this, from my point of view, by simply searching various trading websites and forums the unusual couriers are a very sought after item from month to month. I can safely say that there are people who open hundreds of chest just to find these rare items. And from what we've learned in the past, the money earned from chest is all lumped together and divided evenly between the various artist. In my opinion if an item is sought after, and/or drives revenue into the game, those creators should receive some of that revenue. Even though there is the workshop agreement and I can't dispute that, I still feel this is slightly wrong.
What do you guys think, do you feel the same way?
Thank you.
This line of sales strategy only hurts people who create couriers, to the point where I personally won't be making any more despite having 2 in the works already.
And please don't get me wrong. I absolutely love making items for Dota 2, but I'm a professional 3d artist. My time IS my money, and being told we're cut from the chests just because of the status given to the item means the risk is too high now.
I guess I'll stick to making sets in my spare time. :P
If you treated them as straight artists, suddenly chest contents would be split between 30+ artists, and the courier makers would be getting a cut from every single chest. Everyone would just want to make couriers instead.
im one that open chests looking for couriers =]
on the agreement whe signed, valve can do wherever they want with the couriers, BUT i think its not fair to share at least part of the revenue with everyone that contributed to that chest
Chaemirix have a good point too, but i still dont think its fair*...
*but im not complaining, love you valve =]
http://navi-gaming.com/news_show.php?news_id=13492
I also find it great that there's not asingle ingame preview in sight.
Based off the numbers I've been getting for the last four months, I disagree, The one item (Molten Genesis) I had in the chest in January has earned more than I've made with the cluckles and navi courier combined. And thats before the revenue sharing, and the readdition of the January key back to the store. That's one month's sales compared to four. Couriers don't make anywhere near as much money as you think.
And to be clear I am not complaining, but I do think there is a fair discussion to be had about this.
I also think it would be fair to add the chest items to the store as well, they have done it before, but I don't understand why they stopped.
That is a good argument as well, but if you breakdown the couriers in the chest you'll find that the only couriers in the chest, starting this year that were made by community members are the following;
Morok's Mechanical Mediary
Tickled Tegu
Na'Vi's Weaselcrow
Cluckles the Brave
Prismatic Drake
And each artist wouldn't be treated individually, but rather the assets as a whole. You aren't looking at 30+, but only five. I wouldn't imagine valve's couriers to be included in the revenue sharing.
There is also a considerable amount of work that needs to be completed for a courier compared to other items in the game.
Not anymore, considering they put the old keys back on the store, you can expect chest to be a bit more sustainable.
The icing on the cake to this debate is Valve bringing back old chests. That's going to be even more money for single item submissions, and less money (despite more couriers going out) to courier creators. And keep in mind, creating a courier is very much like creating an entire character. Hell, some of us have worked on couriers that utilize more than one form, which ends up being like 4 LOD's. It is a LOT of work that is proving to pay less than just simply flooding the market with single items in hope that one gets picked up for a community chest.
But, it's fine. If Valve doesn't want to pay out on unusual couriers, I'll just stick to making single items and sets. It's waaaaay less work for me, which equals less time and ultimately more money.
Those numbers are very far off the actual number. I stopped using that site because it was so inaccurate, you get much better results emailing them and asking directly.
But this is not a matter of numbers, rather that couriers are a sought after item, so sought after that people go out of their way to open chests to find those rare couriers. The couriers pull in some of the revenue of the chest, but none of that goes to the artist that created it. To put it bluntly, in some instances, my work is earning other people money.
I don't believe we should receive a direct cut from the single items in the chest for one month, but I do feel we should earn something if our work is used.
Bewsii is right on the money with that comment.
Collection: 5000 votes.
Average item: 200 votes.
Wow they couldn't have fucked up this better
This shouldn't get in ffs. Using fanbase in such straight ruthless way should be ignored.
Also, provide in-game screens, goddamnit... There's no way this gonna look good on game engine.
Progress on my Void set. Got the low-poly done and all my maps baked and ready to texture! Also need to get my LOD1s set up, which caused me to redesign a couple parts.
Wow, this really is horrible. Looks like something out of a cheap Disney knock off.
Have you ever considered when Na'Vi marketed the set through their website they only linked the collection page? I have no reason to believe the majority of their fan base rarely use or go on the workshop and don't understand that each item has its own page, so they simply up vote the collection page.
Also having worked with esport teams in the past the up vote system is meaningless, Valve asked them to create these sets, how much they get up voted doesn't matter. Its simply a marketing technique to make more people aware of the product.
The ONLY thing I see Na'Vi doing wrong was not providing in game screenshots showing the set is fully complete. But even that doesn't really matter, all that matters is increasing the potential revenue the item can make to allow esport organizations to use the workshop as a viable source of income to aid the already struggling position they are usally in.
I see nothing wrong here, and I kinda like the wings included with the set.
There is a place in store that you can buy couriers directly, so Valve could acknowledge that if someone want courier he will buy it directly.
On the other hand having possibility to get courier out from a chest is probably really motivating for some players.
Personally I would buy courier directly. Thing about reverse situation. If Valve bundled your courier with some king of chance to get 1 of 10 items, would you agree to share your revenue with item creators?
Ass for the NaVi set... i don't feel it right. It doesn't have anything to do with Na'Vi, they should chose another hero so at least it would be yellow set
What I see as wrong is that if you or I had made that set on our own, it wouldn't get in (and it would be right not to) but because it has the Navi label slapped on it, it'll get in
I agree with this Navi has a lot more weight to throw around when it comes to promoting their own items. If other organisations with the same sort of marketing power move heavily into the workshop space it'll be harder for individuals to get front page spaces.
Design wise I think it's awful.(Although you could argue that is personal taste.) But without any in game screenshots I can only base the quality of the model/texture on their promo image, which is a terrible render done in mental ray or something. As far as I can tell the textures are awful because all I can see is some crappy mental ray metal shader.
If it gets in, in it's current state I will be a little upset. I'd be ok for it to be added if the quality was there, just at this point I don't think it is.