Hi guys,
I'd like to know how would you model this:
It is the release lever of a S&W revolver I'm currently working on. I'd like to have the most accurate reproduction allowed (reasonably), but cannot figure out how to manage shape blending between tiny grip piramids and the whole object. Thanks for any suggestion.
Well, honestly i would add those little bumps in afterwords in the texture, if you're baking down to lowpoly.
If you need it in the high tho, you're just going to need to use a lot of geometry, and model it as accurately as you can. If you look back to the last page, you'll see a couple small tutorial gifs for creating the diamond shapes.
Thanks EarthQuake,
I was afraid of the answer, but before diving into that geometry hell I wanted to be sure there wasn't something quite obvious I was simply missing. I'm not much into hard surfaces modeling. I've seen your very useful tutorial about diamod shapes and already made use of it in the cylinder head for bullets extraction. Thank you very much.
You could also try modeling the base shape, and doing the diamond bits as floating on top, that way you dont have to worry about everything connecting and all that
Floating diamods was another option I was pondering, but I'd like to reproduce the smoothed surface around diamods area that cuts some of them. If it is provided by a TurboSmooth I cannot control it, and diamonds would look not so much integrated along the border. Don't know if I made myself understood. Anyway, I'll give a try to different methods, this model purpose is to learn. When it's done I'll post it for some feedback, and probably will require some hints to go on making a lowpoly and texturing. Thank you for your tips and awesome Mateba, I learnt a lot from your screens.
You will probably want to at least add an extra cut where the bottom of that extrusion meets the hood. You may need another one along the segment that connects the edge of the hood to the scoop.
You could also float this detail and pull the edges out a little (the open edges where it floats above the hood) so that it "blends" together in a normal map (if you're baking to a low poly.)
It's not that difficult. Chamfer some edges, re-route some of the loops, and a dash of pentagon.
If you can get away with it, you should consider making it a separate piece. It would be much faster to model and unwrap, and just deal with in general.
Hmmm...I probably shouldn't have those narrow loops running across flat areas of the mesh. There's too much tension up in here......it's too hot today.
Reference of what you're doing? the main problem here is that you're extending that bit out off of the main geometry, which i really dont understand why you would want do to in the first place.
Zoomed 200 percent. You might need to zoom in more. But you will see what I mean. Obscured other areas since don't want to give too much away being a game model.
Need some more loops on the lonely loop on the inside. I bet if you carried the loops on the topside around the front and to the underside it would create some nice edge flow and help smooth out the inside.
hi oXY. You just need a loop on each side of the divide. No need to modify the existing geo.
I attempted before and it only changed the overlapping in the mesh smooth. There is a failure to communicate. In either my understanding of your guys explanations or something Im missing.
Thanks Per. I followed your example and redid the layout somewhat (had to do it slightly different from yours to fit into the larger mesh) so there wasn't chamfering. Its much cleaner now. How do you know when to add edge loops to edge side of a loop versus chamfer it?
Is there a tool in max that will create a new edge loop that is a consistent distance from the edge loop Im working on if its angle and distance vary? Connect only averages for each ring portion.
Thanks Per. I followed your example and redid the layout somewhat (had to do it slightly different from yours to fit into the larger mesh) so there wasn't chamfering. Its much cleaner now. How do you know when to add edge loops to edge side of a loop versus chamfer it?
Is there a tool in max that will create a new edge loop that is a consistent distance from the edge loop Im working on if its angle and distance vary? Connect only averages for each ring portion.
Hey guys. I was wondering if a lot of the techniques being used in this thread are just as easily applied to Softimage? I figure the basics would be, but what about some of the more advanced modeling tips such as for speed modeling? Does XSI or even Maya for that matter lack some tools that 3ds max comes with, and if so is there any recommended plugins or scripts for tools they might be lacking?
I am researching on my own, but I'd like some input so I can take most of the 3ds max tutorials and be able to apply them to me learning softimage.
Whenever I do sub-d occasionally I will get mysterious pinching using that isn't directly caused by topology. This happens when using the Turbosmooth modifier in Max. Using this image, for example:
Subdividing a mesh that looks like the one all the way to the right will still be a perfect 90 degree angle after a couple divisions, though logically it should look like the one to the left.
I can work around it by chamfering the offending vertices/edges and restoring the old topology, but does anyone know a better solution to this problem? Sometimes detaching/reattaching some faces also works.
I've been trying to do a lot more sub-d work lately, this is one of the approaches I've found has some success for certain shapes.
Basically using turbosmooth with separate by smoothing groups with a few divisions then throwing another turbosmooth on top without the separate selected.
I've found it to be a pretty 'quick' way to retain the major shapes of the geometry while providing the smooth curved edges.
SGs aren't taken into account by default, so this may be user error or some kind of obscure bug. Which version max do you use, and please upload a max file with that problem
This is the piece of the mesh I had the problem with earlier. I'm using Max 2008, but I remember having this same problem with older versions of Max. I also found that exporting/reimporting the mesh from an OBJ fixes it for whatever that's worth. I'll probably do that instead of chamfering things in the future.
Yeah, tesselate also might work... better than go crazy with chamfers, than It's a pain if you need to go back and remove them. The new Flow Connect is useful for this btw, if you ever need it!
How would I model the streets with uvs like that? Also with sections that intersect,split, and merge as well. I was thinking going modular but I wouldnt know if the UVs would tile correctly across each other.
I think something got screwed up when that geometry was created. Either a triangulation issue, or a weight issue or something. I've gotten similar problems myself and I don't think that it is necessarily a bug, but can't figure out any way of resolving it.
I say it has to do with creation method because if you extend the other edges of the geometry, they will smooth fine, but that original bend always stays rigid.
ArtsyFartsy - Until I find a better explanation, I would consider it a bug. It seems to happen sporadically and you can imagine how annoying it is to fix when you have a dense mesh. I don't think I do anything weird when creating geometry, so I'm not sure. Thanks for taking a crack at it.
bitmap - After reading your suggestion, I thought this would be the problem for sure, but after testing it doesn't seem like it. Everything has a weight of 1 and crease of 0. I've actually never used this feature, but I probably should be since it seems pretty useful.
I think something got screwed up when that geometry was created. Either a triangulation issue, or a weight issue or something. I've gotten similar problems myself and I don't think that it is necessarily a bug, but can't figure out any way of resolving it.
I say it has to do with creation method because if you extend the other edges of the geometry, they will smooth fine, but that original bend always stays rigid.
Are you sure you don't have two rows of verts at the hard edge? I've done it in Max before where it lags for a second and I get an edge right on top of a previous one, and its impossible to detect until you go to smooth and you wind up with a hard edge like that.
Selecting all the verts and welding with a tiny threshold will fix it if thats the case.
I think it would help if people opened the file and tried things themselves. I'm starting to lean more and more towards bug, which means we probably shouldn't post about it in this thread anymore.
What's interesting is that if you look at the gizmo axis in my screenshot, if I move the rigid verts around, they will smooth correctly in the X and Z directions (red/blue) but will not smooth in the Y direction.
Perna's solution fixes it. I'm not sure whats causing it either. Whats really weird is that when I chamfered the edge it didn't subdivide evenly.
It seems pretty obvious that there is some option that exists in edit poly that doesn't exist in edit mesh, but since it isn't the weights I have no idea what it is
It's in spanish, but you can use google translator anyways.
i agree if its pure sub'd but for sculpting a grid like structure actually saves you from having to subdivide too many times and can really help avoid pinched details
Perna's solution fixes it. I'm not sure whats causing it either. Whats really weird is that when I chamfered the edge it didn't subdivide evenly.
I forgot to explain that once you chamfer the edge, one set of edges/verts is still bugged, so you have to remove them. I used to do that so I wouldn't have to delete a whole area.
slainean: I didn't get around to loading your file, but from your last screenshot I'd say this is an old max bug. Kevin told me how to get around it originally: Convert to editable mesh, then back to editable poly.
This is exactly the quick solution I was looking for. Works easily without any bs. Thanks again.
Hi, i'm new here.
I came across this really awesome thread, and what a coincidence, i have a question so i registered.
I'm working on an Audi A5 (in 3d Studio max). The car has some sharp edges that fade out at some places.. for example at the rear of the car. Now i already modeled it and i think it look OK, but i was wondering if this could be done better than this?
reference pic:
my 3d WIP in max:
the green polys are pentagons. I did the upper sharp edge all quad. So what's a good way to make 'em fade out?
That's an enlightening video. Think I'll have to borrow some techniques from it and take em over to max if possible.
I saw this shape in a concept and thought I'd give it a shot. Thought I'd bring it here to see how you guys might go about it. I just boolean'd out a sphere and tweaked a few edges. I'm sure you guys have a better way.
Replies
I'd like to know how would you model this:
It is the release lever of a S&W revolver I'm currently working on. I'd like to have the most accurate reproduction allowed (reasonably), but cannot figure out how to manage shape blending between tiny grip piramids and the whole object. Thanks for any suggestion.
If you need it in the high tho, you're just going to need to use a lot of geometry, and model it as accurately as you can. If you look back to the last page, you'll see a couple small tutorial gifs for creating the diamond shapes.
I was afraid of the answer, but before diving into that geometry hell I wanted to be sure there wasn't something quite obvious I was simply missing. I'm not much into hard surfaces modeling. I've seen your very useful tutorial about diamod shapes and already made use of it in the cylinder head for bullets extraction. Thank you very much.
Danke!
You could also float this detail and pull the edges out a little (the open edges where it floats above the hood) so that it "blends" together in a normal map (if you're baking to a low poly.)
It's not that difficult. Chamfer some edges, re-route some of the loops, and a dash of pentagon.
If you can get away with it, you should consider making it a separate piece. It would be much faster to model and unwrap, and just deal with in general.
Hmmm...I probably shouldn't have those narrow loops running across flat areas of the mesh. There's too much tension up in here......it's too hot today.
http://www.oxynary.com/downloads/hoody.zip
I attempted before and it only changed the overlapping in the mesh smooth. There is a failure to communicate. In either my understanding of your guys explanations or something Im missing.
:::
Vig, can you be more explicit in what you mean?
Is there a tool in max that will create a new edge loop that is a consistent distance from the edge loop Im working on if its angle and distance vary? Connect only averages for each ring portion.
http://ground-studios.com/stuff/meshtools/meshtools_eng.htm
very useful!
Go give SyncViewS' IC.PolySplitRing script a go...
http://www.illusioncatalyst.com/mxs.php
- Rick.
We'd pretty much have one if Per would update that old minitut page with all of this new stuff.
Thanks for the suggestions all.
I am researching on my own, but I'd like some input so I can take most of the 3ds max tutorials and be able to apply them to me learning softimage.
Subdividing a mesh that looks like the one all the way to the right will still be a perfect 90 degree angle after a couple divisions, though logically it should look like the one to the left.
I can work around it by chamfering the offending vertices/edges and restoring the old topology, but does anyone know a better solution to this problem? Sometimes detaching/reattaching some faces also works.
I'm sure I'm overlooking something.
Basically using turbosmooth with separate by smoothing groups with a few divisions then throwing another turbosmooth on top without the separate selected.
I've found it to be a pretty 'quick' way to retain the major shapes of the geometry while providing the smooth curved edges.
works fine too
I've tried using one smoothing group, smooth result by smoothing groups, no smoothing groups - nada.
http://evilalchemy.com/stuff/subd_error_example.max
This is the piece of the mesh I had the problem with earlier. I'm using Max 2008, but I remember having this same problem with older versions of Max. I also found that exporting/reimporting the mesh from an OBJ fixes it for whatever that's worth. I'll probably do that instead of chamfering things in the future.
Thanks for the help.
Here's an example of how to avoid propagation of unneeded details:
You can see more examples here: http://blog.whiteblaizer.com/2009/03/subdivision-tips-hard-surface-modelling-iv/
It's in spanish, but you can use google translator anyways.
http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3ODST/imagery/screenshots/H3ODST_NewMombasa02.jpg
How would I model the streets with uvs like that? Also with sections that intersect,split, and merge as well. I was thinking going modular but I wouldnt know if the UVs would tile correctly across each other.
I think something got screwed up when that geometry was created. Either a triangulation issue, or a weight issue or something. I've gotten similar problems myself and I don't think that it is necessarily a bug, but can't figure out any way of resolving it.
I say it has to do with creation method because if you extend the other edges of the geometry, they will smooth fine, but that original bend always stays rigid.
bitmap - After reading your suggestion, I thought this would be the problem for sure, but after testing it doesn't seem like it. Everything has a weight of 1 and crease of 0. I've actually never used this feature, but I probably should be since it seems pretty useful.
Are you sure you don't have two rows of verts at the hard edge? I've done it in Max before where it lags for a second and I get an edge right on top of a previous one, and its impossible to detect until you go to smooth and you wind up with a hard edge like that.
Selecting all the verts and welding with a tiny threshold will fix it if thats the case.
What's interesting is that if you look at the gizmo axis in my screenshot, if I move the rigid verts around, they will smooth correctly in the X and Z directions (red/blue) but will not smooth in the Y direction.
It seems pretty obvious that there is some option that exists in edit poly that doesn't exist in edit mesh, but since it isn't the weights I have no idea what it is
i agree if its pure sub'd but for sculpting a grid like structure actually saves you from having to subdivide too many times and can really help avoid pinched details
mayas sub'd modelling really excells at this
I forgot to explain that once you chamfer the edge, one set of edges/verts is still bugged, so you have to remove them. I used to do that so I wouldn't have to delete a whole area.
This is exactly the quick solution I was looking for. Works easily without any bs. Thanks again.
I came across this really awesome thread, and what a coincidence, i have a question so i registered.
I'm working on an Audi A5 (in 3d Studio max). The car has some sharp edges that fade out at some places.. for example at the rear of the car. Now i already modeled it and i think it look OK, but i was wondering if this could be done better than this?
reference pic:
my 3d WIP in max:
the green polys are pentagons. I did the upper sharp edge all quad. So what's a good way to make 'em fade out?
thx for any suggestions! :thumbup:
gonna try to finish the car in the next weeks.. (got some school exams now)
[ame]
I saw this shape in a concept and thought I'd give it a shot. Thought I'd bring it here to see how you guys might go about it. I just boolean'd out a sphere and tweaked a few edges. I'm sure you guys have a better way.
The part is here.
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/93793/Forum/part.obj