How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

134689170

Replies

  • Saidin311
    Offline / Send Message
    Saidin311 polycounter lvl 11
    I'm sorry. I'm a non-professional and I have to agree with EQ's modality. If the model looks good and bakes good (and you're not needing full quads for sculpting) then why does it matter if there's a small pinch or your loops aren't perfect. And also, there's no need to follow an object 100% exact blueprints, especially if the detail you're creating will get lost in the final object. I hope I got that summary correct cause I skimmed through the last couple posts.

    Example: A lot of people complement final sub-d work when posted in the PnP forum. Noting how good the detail is etc. But when you see a wireframe of the object you realize it has ngons all over the place. Sometimes it just easier to end a loop in the middle of a loop. That alone gave me the confidence to say "hey I can tackle any shape so long as my end result looks good". And I find myself learning from that 100000 times more than trying to tackle something in many hours that would have looked the same if I had just left that 5 sided ngon the way it was.

    I'd also have to say, please egg eachother on in this thread (and the other). Cause it's great to see discussion and whether right or wrong I'm learning from them both! There's a comforting fact in knowing that we all have ego's but we're all still willing to learn from eachother. hah
  • Joao Sapiro
    Offline / Send Message
    Joao Sapiro polycounter
    Blaizier your making us spaniards look bad !! keep at it and even Javier Bardem + Penelope Cruz combo wont save us !!! this thread is awesome btw.

    P.S - both ur method and EQ work , but none is the "only" way to do it , thats what is basically what is said here.
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    When it comes to arrogance, there are 4 types of people
    1. Those who are not arrogant
    2. Those who are arrogant, but know it
    3. Those who are arrogant, but in total delusion think they are not
    4. Those who are Per, and are arrogant because they own you

    Let me add to this that #3 not too long ago wrote a bunch of posts claiming to have singlehandedly invented art. I mean, I'm a raving arrogant madman without a single shred of morals or common sense, but even I am embarrassed on behalf of such statements.

    Anyway, back on topic - that is such a simple mesh, booleans seem like overkill to me. I would just flatten some verts in a cylinder, then inset. Simpler, faster and just as solid. Maybe modo doesn't have stuff like constrain to edge? Then I might see why you'd have to resort to booleans.
  • Pedro Amorim
    oh god!!!!
    leave the man alone! he was jsut trying to help!
    you guys are being mean to him! im gonna cry now and slash my wrists! kthxbye!
  • Pedro Amorim
    no.. but seriously..
    lets get this shit back on tracks.
    i can see both points of views.

    EQ got pissed just because you said his model wasn't that well made. blaizer what you need to have in mind is that this is a game forum and with that in mind basically that means that the means justify the ends, that is, what matters is the final product in this case the lowpoly with normal maps. and there are inumerous ways to make them, and it doesnt really matter how you make them as long as you can "fool" the normal map baker into beliving that that shape is well made.

    with that in mind i do believe that both you and eq have cool meshes. altho i tend to prefer your way of making shit blaizer, because i like to make hipoly meshes that sometimes dont have gameart purposes.

    now.. i can see why blaizer got pissed. it was because of EQ's comment on you being an idiot. yeah. that was unfortunate. and he could have said things other way arround.
    but oh well.. i think im digressing
    and i need a shower so yeah..cya

    also: jonhy when did you become a spaniard? um chapad
  • EarthQuake
    Dont worry pedro, you're still the biggest idiot in my life. I know you get jealous sometimes.
  • Frankie
    Offline / Send Message
    Frankie polycounter lvl 15
    I like the way OZ did it best
  • Saidin311
    Offline / Send Message
    Saidin311 polycounter lvl 11
    Ok back on track, Bitmap, I seem to recall you doing a tutorial on making a hex-nut. If it wasn't you it certainly was someone using Modo.

    I'm making a hex nut now and am having troubles cutting the circle into the middle of a 6 sided hexagon. Should I start with the circle first and then harden 6 sides on the outside?
    ref
    http://www.global-b2b-network.com/direct/dbimage/50286862/Brass_Hex_Nut.jpg

    Also, I don't need the inside threads, just a bit of an indent so that it looks like it will fit the bolt, which I've already got modeled.
  • EarthQuake
    Alright so this is a pretty quick one, start with a 18 sided cylinder(12 may work too) make a few bevels to block out the main circular forms, make one last extra bevel to add a little padding on the outsides for the hard shapes, then go in and sellect 2 of ever 3 edges(select 2 leave one, select 2, etc) and remove them. Select the edges you have left over and chamfer/edge extrude(modo) them so that you have an edge on either side. In modo this will also give you triangles oddly placed, so simple remove those triangles, and re-cut edges back in that line up with the circular shaps. Add some loops to keep things hard and you're done.

    You can play with the edge hardness a bit more, but unless this while actually be seen upclose, like the only thing on screen, i dont think you would want to make the edges any harder. At the distance you'de be likely to see this on a highpoly or in the normals, these shapes should read pretty well as there are.

    bolt.jpg

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/499159/bolt.obj

    Also as general note, if this was an object that i were going to instance all over the place, and use a shit ton of them, i would put a lot less geometry into it. This is 11232 tris, or 1,123,200 if i had a hundred, or 11m if i had a thousand of them in one mesh, which = major overkill for some details that may only end up like max, 8x8 pixels big on your normals map.
  • Saidin311
    Offline / Send Message
    Saidin311 polycounter lvl 11
    Cheers EQ! And thanks for the obj ref.
    That nut has considerably less geo than the one I made so that will help the cpu speed! And yeah, if I was doing a normal map for this I wouldn't be using as many instances as I plan on using (or even paint these directly in the normal). But the piece I'm doing (the engine from metalmans thread) is more for some practice at new shapes and techniques. So the 20-30 or so nuts/bolts I'll be using are more to capture the level of detail in the original engine and not for a low-poly bake.

    And here's the new hotness. The ugly green one was my first attempt. The second is after seeing EQ's edgeflow.
    result.jpg
  • JordanW
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanW sublime tool
    One thing that will help as well, if these are normal mapped to a relatively flat surface, the sides of the bolt wont show. A lot of times I'll throw a FFD on my bolts and scale the bottom larger to make the sides show in the normal map.
  • EarthQuake
    Yeah giving bolts a little bit of a cone shape is a definitely a good idea for normal map stuff.
  • Pedro Amorim
  • osman
    Haha nice video. That is modo right? The interface is so easy on the eye. I have to try it out.
  • Pedro Amorim
  • EarthQuake
    what sort of retard were u talking 2, its like getting only half of the worst conversation ever
  • perna
    Offline / Send Message
    perna quad damage
    bitmap I love you
  • Pedro Amorim
    perna wrote: »
    bitmap I love you

    :)
  • Renzatic
    Offline / Send Message
    Renzatic polycounter lvl 10
    I've got a really simple question here. Something that should be easy to do, but for reasons unknown, I can't pull off without spending hours of tweaking to get things nice and clean.

    I need a quick primer on how to make swirls, like these, inside of Modo? I've tried a number of different tools, curve extrude being the main one, but the end results are nowhere near as nice as the ones in the pic. Got any advice?

    On another note, this thread is the greatest thing ever. After glancing through a couple of pages, I learned enough to make this awesome thing that makes no sense. Keep it up. Stark newbies like me can use all the help they can get.
  • almighty_gir
    Offline / Send Message
    almighty_gir sublime tool
    i know this thread is aimed at mechanics, but i was wondering...

    EQ, you've always been one of the inspirations for me when it comes to human faces, and i've always liked how you modeled your high res eyes.

    the question, is how do you think the best way to bake that information down to the low poly is? (the concave iris etc.)
  • Japhir
    Offline / Send Message
    Japhir polycounter lvl 12
    how should i do this shit? i don't know how to make the indents in the back end of the cylinder thingie...
    howdoimakethisshitlj1.jpg
    wip thread
  • Tumerboy
    Offline / Send Message
    Tumerboy polycounter lvl 12
    you've already got some edges in those areas, cut a few more to roughly the shape that gets indented, and then bevel those in.
  • Lamont
    Offline / Send Message
    Lamont polycounter lvl 10
    For shapes like that cylinder (where the bullets go), I count the ridges and half of the recessed parts on each side, and divide: 360/n. This gives me the degree of each of those sections. Then I model the profile of that one section making sure that the ends meet at the proper spot or when you merge points/edges, it won't work. After you make the profile, just extrude and radial clone. Or keep adding detail and then when you get all the way to the back then clone it.
  • Irreal
    Offline / Send Message
    Irreal polycounter lvl 10
    Pretty similar to above but im having a few problems maintaining curvature when trying to tighten edges on this mesh. The half cylinder has 16 sides which seemed enough for the detail I wanted to add. Modelling the low poly is easy enough but the problem occurs when tightening the edges. Should i bevel them as i have done or should i add edges in close proximity? What i have now kinda works but im not happy with it as an overall solution. i.e im still getting pinching and it looks a real mess

    topoProblem01.jpg
  • Irreal
    Offline / Send Message
    Irreal polycounter lvl 10
    Same problem as above. A cylindrical form that I can't for the life of me tighten up. The solution no doubt lies in distributing the additional edges and terminating the loops in a clever way.If anybody feels like a crack at this then here is the obj. Enjoy.


    http://uploading.com/files/XGKAMSEC/cylinderThing.obj.html

    topoProblem02.jpg
  • Joao Sapiro
    Offline / Send Message
    Joao Sapiro polycounter
    Hey irreal, its only a matter of adding more geometry really :

    shape_irreal.jpg


    didnt even bother with right proportions etc, but i think its ok to show what i mean :)

    obj : http://johnyontehspot.com/johny/shape_irreal.obj
  • ArtsyFartsy
    Also a little trick for shaping new polygons.

    Select all the vertices of your object and do hide selected. Then go into edge mode, and add the new edges you need. Especially in cases where you need to improve roundness of a cylinder you could add an edge in between all existing edges.
    Then go back to vertex mode, and now only the new vertices that were created are visible, because the other ones are hidden. Tweak these to improve your overall shape, and finally do unhide all to reveal the old vertices.


    Edit: This is not the standard hide from view. There are subobject hide and unhide options in your geometry rollout. For 3d max at least there are.
  • Irreal
    Offline / Send Message
    Irreal polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks for the help. Yeah more polys is the way to go it seems for this type of thing. It's strange coming from a gaming background how you try to instinctively use as few polys as possible even when doing higher res stuff. :)
  • EarthQuake
    Well, while you probably dont need to use *as* much as johny has there, you'de be surprised just how many times these problems can be solved by just using more geometry. I spend a good deal of time, thinking about how many sides objects will need for certain detail before i even start modeling.
  • Pedro Amorim
    here you go:
    bolt2.jpgbolt.jpg
    obj
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/93793/Bolt2.obj

    edit::
    i made a video of this screw.
    http://edgesize.com/files/videos/Screw/ScrewMe.avi

    http://vimeo.com/3223611

    sorry its kinda crappy. i started using a new soft and didnt configure it before recording, so i was recording in microsoft video 1. And also, i only started recording after i started, so theres a part missing on the begining. anywho!-

    Screw you all!

    haah get it? get it? right? :(
  • JordanW
    Offline / Send Message
    JordanW sublime tool
    is that SSS on a bolt? lol
  • almighty_gir
    Offline / Send Message
    almighty_gir sublime tool
    no, it's SSS on a screw.

    lol
  • Pedro Amorim
    why you gots to be dissing me?
    WHY GOD????????
  • Tumerboy
    Offline / Send Message
    Tumerboy polycounter lvl 12
    JordanW is God?

    Forgive me God, I had no idea!
  • JasonLavoie
    Offline / Send Message
    JasonLavoie polycounter lvl 12
    Man I'm lovin this thread!

    One thing that i don't think has been covered (or maybe I missed it) but wrapping objects (repeating meshes etc.) specifically in Maya, bolts or trims etc.

    I saw this link - http://www.mutantspoon.com/temp/howto01.jpg

    If anyone can tell me how to do what he did in steps 6 and 7 using maya, I would devote my life to you.

    You all rock!
  • breakneck
    Offline / Send Message
    breakneck polycounter lvl 12
    hell, if i could do any of that mini-tut in maya I would be impressed
  • OBlastradiusO
    Offline / Send Message
    OBlastradiusO polycounter lvl 11
    Those CG Chain basic modeling videos RULE! So many useful things i didn't know about.
  • MoP
    Offline / Send Message
    MoP polycounter lvl 14
    The main step of Jordan's tutorial that you can't really do in Maya is the step where he uses a custom spline on the Shell modifier profile. It's something I've been looking into doing for Maya, I don't think it would be all that difficult. Haven't had time yet though.
    I'm pretty sure Maya has decent tools for path deforming a mesh along a curve (although I am really not a fan of Maya's curve tools compared to Max's splines), I just can't remember the command off-hand.

    Edit: link to Whargoul's explanation of deform along spline in Maya, I think this is pretty old so there might be a different way now...
    http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=47712
  • OBlastradiusO
    Offline / Send Message
    OBlastradiusO polycounter lvl 11
    After checking out Bitmap's bolt I decided to speed model the same bolt in max. After looking at the inorganic modeling tutorials I used some new techniques, but I can seem to get the bolt circular enough.

    EDIT: I didn't think it would be that tedious just to sculpt a cross shape into a circular mesh but it was.

    bolt2iz9.jpg
  • pior
    Offline / Send Message
    pior insane polycounter
    Thanks for that pic Johnny, I just learned something very important.
    Thankyou again!

    Hey by the way bitmap. Would it be okay to use that screw on a personal project? On one hand I like to model everything, on the other hand, saving 15 minutes is always good. I think maybe we could setup a highpolygon 'junkyard' here on polycount where we could post OBJs of meshsmooth-friendly details like such? Mostly sci-fi screws and classic hipoly 'knobs'.

    Such a great thread!
  • Pedro Amorim
    you can use the bolt :)
    and yes i think we should make a OBJ depository with screenshots of the models.
  • EarthQuake
    pior wrote: »
    Thanks for that pic Johnny, I just learned something very important.
    Thankyou again!

    Hey by the way bitmap. Would it be okay to use that screw on a personal project? On one hand I like to model everything, on the other hand, saving 15 minutes is always good. I think maybe we could setup a highpolygon 'junkyard' here on polycount where we could post OBJs of meshsmooth-friendly details like such? Mostly sci-fi screws and classic hipoly 'knobs'.

    Such a great thread!

    This is a great idea, we had something like this at one point(FLOATERS THREAD?) but it probably died off long ago. Any suggestions on how to set it up, feel free.

    Maybe just start a thread, and have someone manage the first post, update it as people post new floater bits. IE ps brush thread.
  • alexk
    Offline / Send Message
    alexk polycounter lvl 11
    stuck on how to continue (or terminate?) this edge loop. I guess I could of just made them seperate meshes, but since I got this far, its like a math problem I can't solve but must know the answer to

    thingybobqa9.jpg
  • konstruct
    Offline / Send Message
    konstruct polycounter lvl 13
    AH this is a good one- I too would like to know the answer- like EQ said you can usually smash anything out by just putting in more geometry, but in some cases, you rely on a lack of geometry to get some nice soft forms ( or in this case a perfect circle). So is it just good form to establish what these soft/round shapes are and try and keep them separate?
  • EarthQuake
    You'll get just as soft/perfect of a circle with more geometry here. =)

    Its also easy to model this in 2 pieces, not everything has to be 1 mesh.
  • MoP
    Offline / Send Message
    MoP polycounter lvl 14
    Yeah, I was gonna say, I'd do this using 2 meshes, there's no need to hack around with complex geometry trying to make it look good, when you could just shove two objects together...

    Also, to all the people worried about how to terminate edgeloops... a lot of the time I just leave them as unterminated loops - just an edge (or several) ending up in the middle of another edge is fine - sometimes it's even better for sub-d, actually. Obviously you will lose any benefits of edge loop/ring select, but there are times when simpler, un-terminated geometry is much faster and worthwhile than trying to make a perfectly-quadded, nice-loops mesh...
  • MagicSugar
    Offline / Send Message
    MagicSugar polycounter lvl 10
    To anybody: Modular links or would you do it from one cylinder? (links wouldn't detach or animate)


    Roller_Chain_Coupling.jpg
  • EarthQuake
    Really you've just got to measure how large you want each link to be, an easy way to do this would be to create a cylinder with how many sides(# of links) you want, and then model 1 section of link to fit the size of one polygon from the cylinder. Then you just need to radial clone or however you want to duplicate the piece to fill the rest out.
  • MagicSugar
    Offline / Send Message
    MagicSugar polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks man. I thought doing the array way looked too much work versus bevel/extrude alternate spaces.

    Nobody's checking accuracy so I just eyeballed it (link spans). You can spot the distortion where I strayed from the curve guide. Molded it back more circular by temp grouping and scaling.


    .
    ringm.jpg
  • Ngon
    Hello everyone!
    I am browsing Polycount now for a few weeks and decided to register. Well, now that I am here I have some questions.
    My actual problem where I am stuck are the very basics.
    I modeled a screw:
    http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6186/bild3k.png

    And here is my subdivision-problem:
    http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2203/bild5.png

    The edges are based on a plugin, which bevels all selected edges. I hope to finish the model without setting any edges manually.
    Hopefully somebody can help. :)

    Cheers!

    /edit:
    Well, i continued like this:
    http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4472/screw1.jpg
    http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7454/screw2.jpg
    http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8075/screw3.jpg

    A quick render:
    screw4.jpg
134689170
Sign In or Register to comment.