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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • TychoVII
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    TychoVII polycounter lvl 13
    Thanks for the reply Bitmap. I understand the shape you made well, but I was more curious on how to go about it with a 90 degree (or close to it) angle involved.
  • Pedro Amorim
  • TychoVII
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    TychoVII polycounter lvl 13
    Perna, I think you're on to something there. 359 more tutorials please. :P
  • FlyingElbow
    Any recommendations for chainmail? 4 in 1 or standard would be killer.
  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    chainmail is easy, you just have to create one tiling piece that you can use to make a huge space, i did a knight kinda guy once who had a lot of chainmaill, worked pretty good. As its for a game thats not been announced yet i can't show much

    chainmaill.jpg

    i created lowpoly plane rings, arranged them as rings of a chainmaill are arranged and copied them, then i modelled the basic form of the armor, unwrapped it and used a script to morph between planar unwrap and the basic form, used skinwrap to bind the the planerings to the morph, morphed it to the final form, applied a shell modiefer and tadaaaa: chainmail done
  • ArtsyFartsy
    A good tip for chains and other similar things is to always apply a little twist to the links or rings.

    With and without twist:

    chain.jpg
  • seforin
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    seforin polycounter lvl 17
    Neox wrote: »
    chainmail is easy, you just have to create one tiling piece that you can use to make a huge space, i did a knight kinda guy once who had a lot of chainmaill, worked pretty good. As its for a game thats not been announced yet i can't show much

    chainmaill.jpg

    i created lowpoly plane rings, arranged them as rings of a chainmaill are arranged and copied them, then i modelled the basic form of the armor, unwrapped it and used a script to morph between planar unwrap and the basic form, used skinwrap to bind the the planerings to the morph, morphed it to the final form, applied a shell modiefer and tadaaaa: chainmail done



    I know its a bit to ask but maybe a quick vid of how you did that? I was doing a character a while ago similar where I was using the plugin "slide knit" (which I think is the script your talking about)

    but my ENTIRE character had chainmail on so I had to do a full body, I had issues were parts meet like on seems etc and how to approach that, also I modeled mine to be a basic 3 sided shape (toros I believe) and then had it on the lowest settings and then made it tileable, and then had it shell to the whol shape etc. at the end put a turbo smooth on it to give it its round shape.

    but that nearly killed my comp when I did that. I wanna see the method your speakin of if you dont mind. It would really help with my new project :D
  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    its pretty much the same, seams where fiddly but they are on realy chainmaills too, so i left them open and cleaned them by hand or made some small stitch areas then i then puzzled in to fix holes etc.
  • arrangemonk
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    arrangemonk polycounter lvl 17
    damn the m issing ring is making me mad
  • Valandar
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    Valandar polycounter lvl 18
    Missing rings are actually good - happens on real maille, yannow.
  • Kessler
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    Kessler polycounter lvl 17
    To jump off topic slightly to software used to create Sub Dizzle Geo. Professionally I use 3ds max and of course you can do anything in any software but I recently picked up EarthQuakes weapon of choice SILO and its wicked fast and awesome. Its also a package that you can afford since its only $150 USD. So you don't have to obtain one of those "Fully functioning student Evaluation Versions" from the internet.
  • EarthQuake
    Hey, i use modo! Not that there is anything wrong with silo, if you just need basic sub-modeling, uving etc its the best value hands down.
  • Kessler
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    Kessler polycounter lvl 17
    Sorry for the mistake. I was drinking noob sauce this morning. Now I shall try Modo.
  • frubes
    http://www.hyperent.com/Hyp-Tutorial-Cloth-003.php

    Cloth is always great for anything like chainmail. Basically you skin your chains to a driver mesh and then conform that anyway you want. When you conform it you will find your chainmail basically follows the driver which it is parented too. Obviously you can go further and animate the driver and the chainmail will follow too. TimScripts (linked above) has some great scripts for conforming/shrinking geometry.
  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    now what i want you to do is, try that on a whole body chainmaill armour ;)

    max can't handle the amount of objects and will hate you for throwing so many polies at it, one chain is fairly simple that way but a whole lot of rings will kill max, and i'm talking about thousands not a few hundred rings ;)
  • frubes
    watch the paul hormis cloth dvd neox, he does exactly that. It works great because you are working with the driver object and not the actual chainmail.
  • MattW
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    MattW polycounter lvl 16
    OK, this seems like a simple concept, an extrusion from the top of a round object, but I can't seem to be able to finish it up. I'm completely missing something. From the smoothed version you can see the problem areas, which are resulting in the lack of loops hold the edges in red in the last image. I can't figure out how to put those control loops in without causing a lump in the cylinder. Even if I use something like flow connect you can still see an imperfection. I've had a similar problem trying to extrude a cross from a cylinder like a d-pad.

    OBJ:
    http://www.designcaste.com/poly/roundextrude.obj

    unsmoothed.jpgsmoothed.jpgedges.jpg

    Thanks in advance.
  • Mark Dygert
    The part you highlighted needs to be reinforced. Per's example works well.

    That should be the real title of this thread "how do I reinforce these edges" heh.
  • MattW
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    MattW polycounter lvl 16
    Thanks a lot perna, that definitely smooths it out. The pole still leaves a bit of a pinch at the corner, causing a slight line where they meet that falls off gradually. I also tried using a pentagon like in some of blazier's examples, but they didn't smooth so well. I'm not sure if they're really good when wrapping around a straight curve like that.

    This is using your example perna. So to get rid of that pinch I should just start with a cylinder with a higher segment count?
    pernasmoothed.jpg
  • MattW
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    MattW polycounter lvl 16
    Vig wrote: »
    The part you highlighted needs to be reinforced. Per's example works well.

    That should be the real title of this thread "how do I reinforce these edges" heh.

    Yeah my issue wasn't so much what to reinforce but rather how do do it and not cause lines down the surface. Like I said, I tried it in the most straight forward method of just connecting a loop all the way though, then moving it so it flowed with the curve, but I just couldn't get it 100% there so i thought there might be a better topology to use.
  • Mark Dygert
    Looks like you have a hidden edge going the wrong way?
  • MattW
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    MattW polycounter lvl 16
    Vig wrote: »
    Looks like you have a hidden edge going the wrong way?

    Sorry, I should have included these, cuts made based on perna's example:

    perna00.jpgperna01.jpg
  • Schultzie
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    Schultzie polycounter lvl 13
    I was messing around with this object as well since I'm trying to get better at Sub-D modeling. Here are my results:

    Object_01.jpg
    Object_02.jpg
    Object_03.jpg
  • Mark Dygert
    I guess it depends on which is more important putting the pinch point tri on the inside or out. With the last method (looks like started with chamfer?) it moves it inside and slightly over runs the inner crease. This also creates some odd rings to work with, which might not be a bad thing, as it looks like it might run the ring around the edge, which could be helpful...

    I guess it depends on which is less important.

    I would be tempted to change the design of the object and make defined line around the top of the cylinder before the extrude. Or float the extruded part...

    Not a simple fix to keep it smooth and creased all the way around, bummer looked like a really simple fix.
  • MattW
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    MattW polycounter lvl 16
    Yeah I thought the same thing. I was modeling a game pad and had to extrude a cross from a cylinder and discovered how not easy it was. I also played with a similar method as shultzie based on something I read in white blazier's blog, but it was more in reference to controlling a corner on boxes

    http://blog.whiteblaizer.com/2009/03/subdivision-tips-hard-surface-modelling-iv/

    I'm gonna chop away at this some more when I get home. Thanks for everyone's help so far.
  • EarthQuake
    Ok, so you can add a few edges in the right spot, or you can simple use 32 sides instead of 16 without adding anything extra.

    CYLINDERTHING.jpg


    But, the important thing here is what sort of distance will this be viewed at? In my examples above you can spot some pinching, but only if you zoom in way further than you would ever actually see the asset. Most of the above examples would probably work well enough unless this thing is taking up 80% of your screen.


    cylindething2.jpg

    OBJ

    http://johnyontehspot.com/pix/cylinderthing.obj
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Great example there, EQ, well worth pointing out that a lot of the time it doesn't need to be perfect... I reckon 3d artists (myself included) spend too much of their time zoomed right in when the end result will never, ever be seen that close in the final render or game! Ridiculous!
  • NoisyMonk
    Doesn't have to be perfect, just has to look* perfect...


    * - from the right viewing distance ;)
  • MattW
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    MattW polycounter lvl 16
    ha yeah, thanks eq and everyone else. coming from arch vis i tend to get hung up on crazy anal nonsense now like perfectly laid out topo. everything i make is exact units always. after a while these things just become like this puzzle i'm obsessed with.

    EDIT: Wow does modo's subdivision come out so much nicer than max's. I brought the piece from max at work to modo at home and even the original was a lot less terrible.
  • EarthQuake
    Oh, well one thing to keep in mind is that by default modo's sub-division is set to level to, whereas max's is set to level1. I think if you just bump up your turbosmooth setting to 2 iterations you'll see the same results as in modo.

    I generally model all of my sub-d stuff to look correct at level 2, but sometimes i'll knock it down to level 1 to speed up performance when modeling, if im working on something really complex.

    Other than that, i think by default modo has a bit less contrasted presentation with default materials etc that may hide some stuff that max will show more clearly. Afiak max's sub-division system is basically the same deal.
  • Kessler
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    Kessler polycounter lvl 17
    Hey EQuakes, in max I use the radio box for "Use NURMS subdivision" so that I may turn sub-dee off and on at my slightest whim in the fashion of lightwaves TAB key. This just saves my stiffening middle finger from collapsing the stack when using turbo smooth. Its cool cause you can sub by smooth groups and all that jazz.
  • MattW
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    MattW polycounter lvl 16
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    Oh, well one thing to keep in mind is that by default modo's sub-division is set to level to, whereas max's is set to level1. I think if you just bump up your turbosmooth setting to 2 iterations you'll see the same results as in modo.

    I generally model all of my sub-d stuff to look correct at level 2, but sometimes i'll knock it down to level 1 to speed up performance when modeling, if im working on something really complex.

    Other than that, i think by default modo has a bit less contrasted presentation with default materials etc that may hide some stuff that max will show more clearly. Afiak max's sub-division system is basically the same deal.

    I forget where I read it, but apparently they use a different algorithm but I could be completely wrong. I actually found as I bump up my levels it tends to tighten up the 'lumpies' thus making them show more. My smoothed results shown above are all at 3. The material thing could be a factor, but I did raise up the spec a bit and on even the original the pinch didn't seem nearly as bad.

    I feel like I have a whole lot to learn and habits I have to break moving from arch vis where you rarely sub divided, just did everything with splines extruded, lathed or swept, to mechanical modeling. Everything was so exact, there was no nudging thing around. That's something I need to get comfortable with it seems to be successful at this, but just expect there to be a clear cut, numerical way to handle every problem. I don't necessarily need to do everthing this way, most of the time I don't need to soften edges, MR takes care of that, but I feel like if i'm ever going to learn this is my oppurinity to cut my teeth.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy interpolator
    I have always assumed that everyone uses the Catmull Clark method for SubD calculation.
    Interesting stuff!
  • devioussam
    hello everyone, kinda irrelevant to the current topic, however, I recently discovered the cross-section modifier in max, anyone have any success using this for sub-d modeling? or tips? i could definitely see how it could be used for creating some very unique shapes...
  • cycloverid
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    cycloverid polycounter lvl 15
    I'm having an issue related to hi-poly modeling. In Maya.

    Whenever I boolean a piece of geometry, I almost always get weird face deletions at the corners of the mesh. Here is an example of where they most likely happen:

    boolean.jpg

    Just me?
  • beartraps
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    beartraps polycounter lvl 8
    booleans in Maya start sucking exponentially when u have more and more geometry. At least for me...
  • jocose
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    jocose polycounter lvl 11
    I might just be being dumb here, and not understanding what you are getting at, but I was able to do this just fine in Maya2K9:

    cubesn.jpg

    Is that what your trying to do, or am I confused?

    Edit: Were you saying this only happens on models with lots of geometry? Because I was able to do the same test with no problems on a highly subdivide mesh.
  • cycloverid
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    cycloverid polycounter lvl 15
    Jocose: Yeah, sorry for the confusion. All I'm saying is: I tend to reinforce loops on hi-poly geometry. When I try to boolean meshes like this, I get weird face deletions usually where the red highlights are on that simple geo. pic I showed there. Although, they happen in other areas as well... and it's annoying to clean up, as I don't always notice it right away. If you don't have problems, then you're lucky!

    I guess use booleans very sparingly? :poly118:
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    booleans are only useful before the high poly, you have to redo the topology after you use it anyway.
  • DEElekgolo
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    DEElekgolo interpolator
    336438-xs.jpg
    How would i subdiv model shapes and such like this? And not have them all be at one depth.
  • Farfarer
    I did some stuff like that before when modeling a Paris metro entrance.

    I basically used long quad strips to outline the shapes, then added in loops down the centre and pulled them out, to give it some shape and stop them from being flat. After I got it to a point I liked, I used thicken (which'd be shell in 3DSMax) to give them some mass.

    To have them not at one depth (I assume you want them overlapping) I'd do the same thing but before adding my extra loops, just move the quad strips forward/backwards.

    Quick and shoddy tut (I'm on my lunch break).
    2mintut.th.jpg
  • seforin
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    seforin polycounter lvl 17
    theirs a easier way, why not take those images since there black and white into photoshop make a vector shape from it bring it back into max and put a shell modifier and play from there , there was a tutorial with that just recently on here I believe?
  • Farfarer
    It's not guaranteed to make nice strips. I think you'd spend longer fixing it up than you would just tracing the lines.
  • DEElekgolo
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    DEElekgolo interpolator
    seforin wrote: »
    theirs a easier way, why not take those images since there black and white into photoshop make a vector shape from it bring it back into max and put a shell modifier and play from there , there was a tutorial with that just recently on here I believe?
    Yea, I made that tutorial, but I wanted there to be more depth to it.
  • dmacb
    Hi all!

    I'm new in this forum and in subD's. I'm a max user so if I use some "max terms"... sorry. I've read all the posts in this thread and learned alot, from the examples and advices.

    But I still have some doubts...
    You mention that sometimes when you need to add more detail to a certain area but don't want to mess out other parts, you break that part (detach it... to a new object? to a clone?) and add detail... and then what? I tried that but in a circular object even if you place the new object EXACTLY in the point where it was... you clearly notice a seam!
    Do you weld it back to place? But for that you have to deal with all the "loose ends"/edgeloops and such that you created...

    I'm really in the dark here...

    Is this a case of "more geometry"???

    Any hint would be gold... thanks!!!
  • Saidin311
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    Saidin311 polycounter lvl 11
    Phew. I'm getting back into the modeling game after a busy summer.

    I've decided since I've never done a gun to try it out. I'm having some problems though wrapping my head around the edge flow for the center piece of the scope.

    The ridged cylinders are easy, but its the complex square with rounded sides that is bugging me.

    Anyone have any idea of how to start a shape like this? Start with a Cylinder? a Box?
    eg.jpg

    And this is the progress of where I'm at on the scope.
    test1-5.jpg
  • Pedro Amorim
    Saidin311 wrote: »
    Phew. I'm getting back into the modeling game after a busy summer.

    I've decided since I've never done a gun to try it out. I'm having some problems though wrapping my head around the edge flow for the center piece of the scope.

    The ridged cylinders are easy, but its the complex square with rounded sides that is bugging me.

    Anyone have any idea of how to start a shape like this? Start with a Cylinder? a Box?
    eg.jpg

    And this is the progress of where I'm at on the scope.
    test1-5.jpg


    Is this it?
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/93793/saidin.obj

    saidin.jpg
  • OBlastradiusO
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    OBlastradiusO polycounter lvl 11
    how did you get that shape bitmap?
  • BrodyB
    This is a pretty back-to-basics question, but what's the best way to cap a sphere? In modo, default sphere caps seem to pinch towards the central vert.

    spherepinch.png
  • killingpeople
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