Hi. Is there a short cut to convert the stepy-edge's to a circular shape in edit poly mod ? i started with a cylinder and then i focused on a quarter of it. modeled the first quarter and then using symmetric modifier i got it to this level. since i have to continue the inside part and its flat, i have to convert the last edge to this round shape. is there a short-cut to make it soft ? i think im also able to use "shapes" to make the insite part. (yes) but couldn't be better to model this all in one part ? also let me ask, is there an easier approach to the out part ?
I had to cheat a bit with an Edit Poly, to get a top bevel, separate the drain area, and fix a bad vertex. I hate using Edit Poly because it breaks parametric editing... Edit Poly is vertex-count-dependent so if you edit stuff below it you're more likely to break things.
Anyhow, you can go through the modifiers one-by-one to see what I did. Just turn off "Show End Result" to see the steps.
thank you so much for the info and the trying it ! i got it. i used an eclipse, duplicating and scaling it to match the final shape, then i created a surface, then i customized only a part and using symmetry it just fit really nice together. love this section. very informative post. well done everyone.
Hi. I'm new to the whole world, i just started studying it, but i was wondering if you could give me some advise. I was trying to model this pillar complex in maya for a game environmental asset, based on the reference. (pic 1)
I modelled one thicker, and one thinner pillar with the decorative top part as extrusions, and i lined them up as they should be, then booleaned them to make a union. As you can see on the picture it is a pain to clean up the topology at the joints of the decorative top part. (pic 2)
I tried a different approach, which has a nicer topo, but it just doesn't look as nice as the original. (pic 3)
Is there any way to model this correctly? Or should i just import it into ZBrush and Dynamesh them to weld them together instead of doing a boolean and than re-topologies it after and decimate it back?
You might get some "fitting" radiuses for two different sized circles with different amount of vertices repeated in this circular way. But as soon the radius changes because of the profile you have to be very lucky to get some fitting vertices... The green marked may fit; but the red ones don't and also may produce triangles (or even n-gons..)
It's the same with this 32 and 16 vertices cylinders with a 1.5 bigger top:
The side edges just cross over in different angles all over the place.. so this kind of topology is a really nasty..
Hi, thanks for the answer. Yes, i know, tried to clean it up by hand adding new vertices and supporting edges, then target weld the miss-matching vertices, and it kind of worked but this is why i ask if there is any way to approach this correctly, or re-topologies the final result somehow. I tried welding the pillars together in ZBrush and dynamesh it to a higher polycount to keep the details and then subdivide it with zremesher, but it just became way to high poly for game asset. Any advise?
Hi, thanks for the answer. Yes, i know, tried to clean it up by hand adding new vertices and supporting edges, then target weld the miss-matching vertices, and it kind of worked but this is why i ask if there is any way to approach this correctly, or re-topologies the final result somehow. I tried welding the pillars together in ZBrush and dynamesh it to a higher polycount to keep the details and then subdivide it with zremesher, but it just became way to high poly for game asset. Any advise?
You would usually bake this detailed mesh down to a normalmap to be used on a low poly mesh
The only trick I have for models like that is use so much geo that the width of the bevel at the intersections is the same as the spacing of the edges around the pillars. It's never going to be perfectly clean, and you could delete some of the edge loops after modeling out the intersection. If I just needed a clean high poly and simple low poly I'd just use sculpting software. Only for subdiv or nanite would I worry about modeling it super cleanly, but even with nanite you can get aware with using sculpting geo.
I'm not a 3D modelling expert by any means, but I believe the key here is to model the whole thing with a not so dense mesh. I've spent a little time with it and started with a 12-sided cylinder. That way, you have better control over the intersecting parts. I recorded a time-lapse, so maybe it'll help you in some way. It's not perfect or finished at all—there are some triangles here and there, and overall it would need more time (which I don't have), but hopefully the point is clear:
That is amazing, thank you for the video, it gave me a great approach. I will get to it taking all your answers guys into consideration and create the low poly mash just as you did in the video and will bake the higher details. Thank you guys.
If something like that is available in Maya, you could just stick them together and use a rounded edge map / shader to get a small bevel transition between them and bake that to your lowpoly.
Slightly OT but I think worthwhile mentioning at least - if you've thoughts of expanding upon this? possibly further practice or when time allows of course, I might suggest also modeling in additional detail these colonnade shapes are renown for. Namely ornamental capitals usually carved as decoration, now although generated in Blender fair while ago there's no additional operations involved just manually editing it's cage which should be straightforward enough translating across too MAYA.
Anyway if you choose to do so, have fun with it....I did :thumbs up:
@sacboi Thank you so much, great video, it gave me a great idea. I was thinking of doing something like that, but i thought that i will model and sculpt the achantus leaf pattern onto a trim sheet that i was planning to make for my scene and will bake it into my mesh and use it as for my texture, because the pillars ornament is in 6m heigh and won’t be seen that close up, so i can get away with not having that much geometry on those details, so i can make one detailed leaf and make it tileable to wrap it around the ornament. Or is it a lazy approach in your opinion? 😅
No, efficient is how I'd describe your planned course of action. It's only that this thread is primarily a teaching/learning resource for those interested in sub division modeling, hence reasoning behind my post but all good sounds like you're on top of things and btw if interested, may I suggest opening a WIP in 3D Art sub-forum? results of which could also help others, when facing similar potential issues.
Thanks, good idea, i will do that. I only posted here as initially i was interested in how i can approach modelling the intersections of those pillars as i was struggling with that and you guys gave me great ideas and way to start on. Thank you for that.
I'm not sure why you have to subdiv this.. anyway i started with a simple grid; made all the tips; experiemented a bit and added a bevel; made this "arrayable"; then made my way through this to "quadrify it".. except two small triangle at the tips, which could be quaded too.. but this may not even be needed ?
I'm not sure why you have to subdiv this.. anyway i started with a simple grid; made all the tips; experiemented a bit and added a bevel; made this "arrayable"; then made my way through this to "quadrify it".. except two small triangle at the tips, which could be quaded too.. but this may not even be needed ?
Here the blend file and also the result as obj..
Thanks for the answer
I'm doing a high poly of a Colt 1911, you did it in a flat area, but in my case there is a curvature
Ohh.. this of course is some interesting context.. ( now i also understand the last image ) but then some more subdivisions along the bending axis and maybe some inset on the marked faces to break the smooth shading like so (totally not the curvation of the model just as an example):
Ohh.. this of course is some interesting context.. ( now i also understand the last image ) but then some more subdivisions along the bending axis and maybe some inset on the marked faces to break the smooth shading like so (totally not the curvation of the model just as an example):
Thanks again
Your application seems to be working very well
I tried to replicate it here, but the artifact still appears. I'm probably doing something very wrong.
Hello everyone, I would like to know how can I create this purple shape. Please if anyone can help me it would be great. I tried making it for sub div but couldn't get it right.
@jhonerick This type of pinching artifact is generally caused by excess smoothing stress generated where edges cross over the face of a curved surface to connect the corner vertex to the support loop. In this case the effect is exacerbated by the edges of the support loops themselves because they disrupt the segment spacing of the curve and are generating some unintended surface deformation before the smoothing is even applied.
While it is possible to brute force a solution by arbitrarily increasing the geometry density of the curve, it's also possible to simplify the mesh and solve each issue individually at a higher level. Keeping the shapes relatively simple and using the existing edges in the curve as part of the support loops for the intersecting shapes is generally considered best practice when working with subdivision and allowing the subdivision do a lot more of the smoothing work will help make things easier.
Below is an example of what this could look like: Start by blocking out the basic shapes until there's enough room between the segments of the curve to accommodate the intersecting shape, plus the width of the support loop for that same shape. Work on solving the basic topology flow paths around the shape and across the curve. Use at least one of the edges in the curve to act as an intermediate support loop across the flat interior surfaces of the intersecting shapes. Route the primary loop flow paths around the intersecting shape first, avoiding unintentional deformation of the curved surface, then add the final support loops to sharpen the edges of the shapes.
The basic topology flow can be routed directly around the shape intersection with manual loop placement
operations and the tighter support loops, used to define the sharp edges
of the shapes, can be generated with vertext group or edge weighted beveled
/ chamfer modifiers. Using the existing edges of the curve as support
and keeping the tighter edge loops within the existing segment spacing
will help reduce undesired pinching and surface deformation.
Here's what the final base mesh looks like before and after the edge sharpening support loops + subdivision are applied.
The same basic topology routing strategy works for most types of serrations. In this example there's no space between the edges of the serration and the resulting triangle on the curve is constrained by the adjacent loops and doesn't cause any noticeable smoothing artifacts so it's acceptable.
A lot of A1's and similar variants have fairly shallow serration patterns and when dealing with details like this it's generally best to keep things as simple as possible. Let the subdivision do the smoothing. Here the same segment spacing from the previous example works with the shallower serrations.
Subdivision smoothing is an approximate process: so there's a trade off between mesh density, editability, and shape accuracy. The topology routing in this example does produce some very minor surface imperfections, however they're only visible at extreme glancing angles and when viewed up close.
There's diminishing returns on the amount of time and effort spent
improving these sorts of results and if the high poly model is going to be baked down to a low
or viewed from first person then this is generally going to be more than
acceptable, given how small these details are and how subtle the minor
smoothing discontinuities are. Especially once normal and roughness details are added.
Close up comparison between reflective high gloss material and soft highlight material with smooth roll off. Subtle surface quality issues like this aren't visible under all conditions but could be resolved using the same topology routing strategies and increased segment density along the curved surface.
With subdivision: whether or not all that extra effort makes sense depends entirely on the use case, view distance, and material reflectivity.
Depending on what the project goals are: it may also be worth looking at alternate poly modeling and re-meshing workflows (some of which are native to Blender) or maybe even a parametric modeling workflow like Fusion or Plasticity.
The example below shows how those subtle surface quality issues are largely unnoticeable at first person view distances.
Also, tighter support loops around the edges might look great up close but the
edge highlights around the shapes will tend to disappear when viewed
from further away. Over sharpened high poly models can also cause baking
issues. Which is why it's generally better to have slightly softer edge
highlights so the shapes remain readable at a distance or when baking
down from a high poly to a low poly.
Recap:
-Block out the shapes and solve the larger topology flow issues first.
-Use the existing geometry of the curve to support the transitions between intersecting shapes.
-Avoid over sharpening the high poly as this can make the shapes difficult to read and might cause baking issues.
Links to additional write ups that cover similar shapes and smoothing artifacts:
@naman When modeling formed textile products it's often a lot easier to develop the basic shapes first then collapse the subdivision so there's enough starting geometry to place the seams, folds, darts, channels, tufts, etc. then use those edges as a starting point for modeling the rest of the details.
Here's an example of what this process could look like: Start by modeling the basic shape with subdivision then apply that modifier and connect the adjacent vertices to create new edges that match the channel pattern in the reference. Bevel / chamfer that set of edges to create the channel then shrink the inner edge loop down to give it some depth. Merge down the vertices in the top corners and adjust the rest of the shapes as necessary.
If the mesh needs to be all quads
then it's just some light clean up work to either merge down some of
the verts or add some edge loops. (For
items with more complex patterns it might be easier to use a shrink
wrapping or procedural / generative geometry modifier based approach to adding the details.)
Links to some other write-ups on subdivision modeling soft goods:
Replies
Is there a short cut to convert the stepy-edge's to a circular shape in edit poly mod ?
i started with a cylinder and then i focused on a quarter of it. modeled the first quarter and then using symmetric modifier i got it to this level.
since i have to continue the inside part and its flat, i have to convert the last edge to this round shape. is there a short-cut to make it soft ?
i think im also able to use "shapes" to make the insite part. (yes) but couldn't be better to model this all in one part ?
also let me ask, is there an easier approach to the out part ?
There’s also a tool in the Graphite ribbon, to make the edges evenly-spaced, maybe under Loop tools?
is there an easier approach ? like making using world path modifier ?
I had to cheat a bit with an Edit Poly, to get a top bevel, separate the drain area, and fix a bad vertex. I hate using Edit Poly because it breaks parametric editing... Edit Poly is vertex-count-dependent so if you edit stuff below it you're more likely to break things.
Anyhow, you can go through the modifiers one-by-one to see what I did. Just turn off "Show End Result" to see the steps.
i got it.
i used an eclipse, duplicating and scaling it to match the final shape, then i created a surface, then i customized only a part and using symmetry it just fit really nice together. love this section. very informative post. well done everyone.
I'm new to the whole world, i just started studying it, but i was wondering if you could give me some advise.
I was trying to model this pillar complex in maya for a game environmental asset, based on the reference. (pic 1)
I modelled one thicker, and one thinner pillar with the decorative top part as extrusions, and i lined them up as they should be, then booleaned them to make a union. As you can see on the picture it is a pain to clean up the topology at the joints of the decorative top part. (pic 2)
I tried a different approach, which has a nicer topo, but it just doesn't look as nice as the original. (pic 3)
Is there any way to model this correctly? Or should i just import it into ZBrush and Dynamesh them to weld them together instead of doing a boolean and than re-topologies it after and decimate it back?
Thank you for your answers.
It's the same with this 32 and 16 vertices cylinders with a 1.5 bigger top:
The side edges just cross over in different angles all over the place.. so this kind of topology is a really nasty..
Thank you so much, great video, it gave me a great idea. I was thinking of doing something like that, but i thought that i will model and sculpt the achantus leaf pattern onto a trim sheet that i was planning to make for my scene and will bake it into my mesh and use it as for my texture, because the pillars ornament is in 6m heigh and won’t be seen that close up, so i can get away with not having that much geometry on those details, so i can make one detailed leaf and make it tileable to wrap it around the ornament. Or is it a lazy approach in your opinion? 😅
Here the blend file and also the result as obj..
I would like to know how can I create this purple shape. Please if anyone can help me it would be great. I tried making it for sub div but couldn't get it right.
Please help me.
The example below shows how those subtle surface quality issues are largely unnoticeable at first person view distances.
https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2771257/#Comment_2771257
https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2742955/#Comment_2742955