The curved inset piece is fairly deep, and if I place it slightly outside of the base door mesh, the flat part of the base door mesh covers the majority of the curved mesh. Im unsuccessfully trying to render a normal map right now.
Can you post a picture showing where the mesh is placed? side view etc.
Post some obj's or fbx too if you like and I will take a look tomorrow
The floating part needs to be above the surface if the area that you want it to bake onto.
To the baker, it doesnt matter how far it is away from the mesh as long as the projection cage covers it 100% before you bake. Most people put it as close as they can because it looks cleaner and is less distracting to work with.
For such a simple object you really shouldn't be having any problems rendering it as a floater
I did a tut a while ago which goes over the concept of using floating geo. Maybe that will help a little? http://eat3d.com/free/floating_geo
Wow, great tutorial, I had no idea floating geometry could be used like that. It shows that I didnt know how to use floating geometry. Seems I was making things way more complicated than they needed to be, and now I am no longer stuck! Thank you metalliandy!
Trying to follow this quick tutorial but i ran into a problem. When i use the bend modifier it treats every instance as its own. So i don't actualy end up with a nice cylinder but lined up twisted parts. Only get it to work when i attach everything but that of course makes the tweaking later on much more work intensive.
Can someone give a more elaborate explanation what i have to do here? Would be much appreciated.
Trying to follow this quick tutorial but i ran into a problem. When i use the bend modifier it treats every instance as its own. So i don't actualy end up with a nice cylinder but lined up twisted parts. Only get it to work when i attach everything but that of course makes the tweaking later on much more work intensive.
Can someone give a more elaborate explanation what i have to do here? Would be much appreciated.
Are they still instanced in your example? Because as i said i get it to work when i attach all the parts together.
But as i understand it this tutorial is supposed to work in a way that i could still go back afterwards and tweak the original part.
This is what they guy wrote on his deviantart page for extra explanation:
Little explanation
1. Create your base geometry [Editable Poly]
2. Prepare for Sub-D (optional)
3. Clone with the "Instance" option set and your No. of copies
4. Add Turbo Smooth modifier [Iterations: 2] (optional)
Add Bend modifier [Angle: 360] [Bend Axis: Depends, try out]
Why "Turbosmooth" before "Bend"?
If you do it vice-versa it won't be perfectly round.
Why Instances?
Kinda self-explaining, but here you go:
All changes done to the root mesh in "Edit Poly" mode,
will be done to the Instances too.
Don't collapse the stack!
This way you will be able to edit the root mesh
and e.g. add geometry and you will automatically
see the smoothed and bend result!
I hope I could teach you something new and make your models a bit more flexible.
from google : "If you want to keep them as instances you will need to do something else to get them to bend like that...create a simple joint chain with a joint at each link point and then parent them to the joints."
I'm not really sure we are on the same page here. I don't want to learn how to make this sort of shape. I already know that. All i try to find out is how this can be done with the instances still being intact so the object can easily be tweaked afterwards. It sounds to me like a nice time saver in case something actualy needs tweaking.
It should work according the tutorial that i posted but it doesn't for me. So i must be missing something here or maybe the guy forgot to mention a step.
Simply select all of the instances before applying the Bend modifier. You'll then get that thick bar in the modifier stack indicating that modifier encompasses multiple objects, but you can select the Edit Poly modifier below it to alter the single piece.
Alternatively, put all the objects in a Group before applying the Bend modifier.
Simply select all of the instances before applying the Bend modifier. You'll then get that thick bar in the modifier stack indicating that modifier encompasses multiple objects, but you can select the Edit Poly modifier below it to alter the single piece.
Alternatively, put all the objects in a Group before applying the Bend modifier.
Awesome! That's the answer i was looking for. Thanks a lot.
I was intrigued by this idea so I went ahead and made a 3dsMax2011 max file with a group of objects reflecting the technique for those wanting a better understanding I guess. I did this for myself but hell if someone finds It useful then even better.
Now I am curious how to take It one step further?
Say with in my max file I wanted to adjust the spacing between the cylinders how would I create a position adjustment that will update all the cylinders to reflect the changes made to the original?
Quick question: is this pinching just a result of not enough geo, or do I need to figure out some other way to get that corner to hold its sharpness?
Insets and extrusions on curved surfaces in subdivision modeling is notoriously hard to do because the support loops will break the equidistance and cause things like pinching. When doing a shape like this you are much better off getting the shape right, and then subdivide and do the inset last.
From left to right. Highpoly, Subdiv model smoothed, Subdiv model unsmoothed.
Edit: Question though: if I get the shape right with the edgeflow in for an easy cut-out, wouldn't smoothing it (like actual smoothing, not the preview) smooth out everything and I'll lose the edge contours I want?
Example:
Since this surface is a little curved, manually moving the vertices back to straight edges would be a real hassle.
(Used the bottom instead of the cockpit area as an example, because the cockpit area is made up of a simple intersecting grid, so that problem doesn't happen there.)
Edit2: Figured out I can select all the edges on the mesh, then just deselect the future-cutout ones and smooth, then manually connect the edge loops. Is this okay? Although, that means I'll have to smooth again. Does that mean I'll have to go in and get rid of 90% of the resulting edge loops so I don't end up with a ridiculous poly count? This isn't a game model, so I don't think I'll be making a low poly.
This thread is the most interested for me, i learn a lot browsing this, but i have some problem with subd modeling.
So, i just want the red sketched shape, obviously with proper midpoly geometry, smooth edges, etc. But if try the triangle based main part geo (left), i have the problem with control loops. If trying some qouick quad base thing, the control loops on the corner of shape was too close together (green lines in right side shape). Manually put them right place was much time and not possible any geometry. I hope some help, and i know, this is not very difficult (for you)
I'm trying to model a shotgun, I have always had problems with HP topo.
Could someone kindly show me how I can model this star shaped bolt/screw?
It's driving me :poly127:
I'm trying to model a shotgun, I have always had problems with HP topo.
Could someone kindly show me how I can model this star shaped bolt/screw?
It's driving me :poly127:
Thankyou!
Use more geo and it's easy to just cut those pieces out :P
hey guys, my first time Contr. to this. i know i can get help. I've been reading at this topic for a while, and i know that more geo could make or break a modell.
But could you guys please take your time to walk me through what i am doing wrong here. And should i redo the whole thing?
I need help with the red shapes.
Cheers in before hand.
Wirrexx
sorry for the bad Prt-Scrn. mode
oh btw. Im totally noob on doing SUB-D. Its hard. I feel like when it gets down to more advance shape i lose focus. But i want to challenge myself all the time.
Hey guys, I've been following Polycount's forums for a while now and have got a lot of great info. This thread in particular is pretty awesome for learning new sub-d stuff. Anyway, I have a question regarding welding together two cylinders of different sizes that meet in a T junction. I am primarily a Maya user and so far have not found an easy way of doing this. Any suggestions?
Thanks Perna. I tried what you said but am still having problems. I totally get how it would work when the cylinders are of equal radius and you can just rotate 90 degrees and weld it together like in example C. However, when one cylinder is smaller, no matter what combination I use for the number of sides, I can never get it to match up all the way around like you can see in example B. I just can't seem to wrap my head around a way for the topology to be that doesn't break the roundness of one of the cylinders. It's driving me nuts because it seems like there should be a very simple way of doing this that I'm just overlooking.
Hey guys, I'm coming from a mostly organic background but I really want to be more comfortable in hard surface modelling. I'm modelling an environment and have come across a problem. As you can see in the image below I ran into some issues with support edges causing artefacts on the curved surface. I've posted an image of my solution but it still doesn't feel right. How would you guys go about solving this problem?
I just gave it a try after looking at your examples. Makes much more sense now. I think I was getting hung up on being extremely accurate and unwilling to move any verts that didn't perfectly line up. My example, which required a few small vert tweaks to line up, seems to be smoothing fine but if you still see any problems or areas of concern feel free to point them out. Thanks again.
Great stuff Perna. It is very much appreciated and makes a lot of sense in terms of what is actually going on during the subdivision. The only part that I have a question about is `B - This loop has no purpose'. I originally placed that one there to ensure the cylinder's verts from that point up to the top would stay perfectly round/aligned even when I had to move the verts below it slightly to merge with the other cylinder. I was concerned if I had to move the verts very much I would get a slight taper from where they are welded going towards the top. I thought that edge would preserve the cylinder and any taper would happen beneath that edge loop. I'm sure I'm wrong but that was at least why I thought it was needed.
hey guys, my first time Contr. to this. i know i can get help. I've been reading at this topic for a while, and i know that more geo could make or break a modell.
But could you guys please take your time to walk me through what i am doing wrong here. And should i redo the whole thing?
I need help with the red shapes.
Cheers in before hand.
Wirrexx
sorry for the bad Prt-Scrn. mode
oh btw. Im totally noob on doing SUB-D. Its hard. I feel like when it gets down to more advance shape i lose focus. But i want to challenge myself all the time.
Perna: Thats more than enough as a answer lol.
Just being a noob, hate to get stuck on stuff like this. I'm not getting the form right and it kind of pissing me off!
Not really sure if this belongs here, better to ask here than make a thread innapropriately I guess.
Recently I find myself questioning when I should start seperate shapes or to keep parts as one mesh. I'm thinking of modeling the below (subd of course), but I'm not sure if I should break it up or not.
What advice can you guys give? How would you break this model up, if at all?
Not really sure if this belongs here, but to ask here than make a thread innapropriately I guess.
Recently I find myself questioning when I should start seperate shapes or to keep parts as one mesh. I'm thinking of modeling the below (subd of course), but I'm not sure if I should break it up or not.
What advice can you guys give? How would you break this model up, if at all?
I normally separate my model into parts as they would be in real life, so in this instance I would model the grip and trigger guard as one piece, the body of the gun as one piece, the barrel as one piece and the magazine as one piece etc.
Basically if it moves or can be taken apart in real life, model it in that way. Oh and use floating geo. for the screws...you will save yourself headaches that way.
That certainly makes sense! I wasn't sure if the grip part came away or not, because I was thinking along those lines. I guess it helps to have a bunch of good references.
Hello guys, I am pretty much new to modeling, and I have some problems and questions.
How do I maintain the rectangular shapes? After subdiving rectangles turns into circles.
Also, any ways to deal with "bad topology"?
P.S I work in 3ds max if that matters. Thanks. Original model Original model in hidden line mode Subdivided model Bad topology example
Okay so the quick bit out of the way first, regarding the "bad topology" cylinder caps (it looks fine tbh) - there are two good way of capping cylinders that I know of:
Both only work for even sided cylinders.
Regarding the square becoming a circle, it's due to needing supporting loops. You should look them up, but I'll give you a quick walkthrough for this.
Subdivision averages over areas without definition (not sure if this is the proper way to describe it, but it's more or less true). So if you have a square without any supporting loops (definition), it'll average over the corners and become circular. By adding in more definition, the subdivision algorithm will average over a small area and just give you rounded corners etc. That's why extra iterations of subd won't make as much difference to a mesh's shape.
For circular shapes, adding in support loops can break the shape. The sides of the circle need to be evenly space to remain circular. So we get around this by adding in more sides, and use those as supporting edges! Then we add in the rest, and it looks something like this:
Nemesis: How exactly is that "bad topology"? I suggest directing your efforts to something that actually improves how your mesh looks instead.
To fix the rectangle problem you do as ghaz shows, except you also place control loops along the outside of the corner. Always make loops on both sides of the geometry you're trying to control, equidistant, unless you're making an uneven edge on purpose.
Yeah, you're right. I should wait to wake up in the morning before trying to give advice :P Derp on my part.
Another question about cylinders but this time not their curved side, and I have a feeling it's a rather simple one, so I may end up feeling silly asking it, but I need help with this:
Replies
Post some obj's or fbx too if you like and I will take a look tomorrow
https://rapidshare.com/files/3675931479/scifidoor.FBX
I included 3 meshes. One base without the cut, one base with the cut, and the inset piece.
Tonight I'm gonna give retopologizing the inset piece a go, I think I could simplify the bottom part, which is causing problems.
Thanks so much for your help.
To the baker, it doesnt matter how far it is away from the mesh as long as the projection cage covers it 100% before you bake. Most people put it as close as they can because it looks cleaner and is less distracting to work with.
For such a simple object you really shouldn't be having any problems rendering it as a floater
I did a tut a while ago which goes over the concept of using floating geo. Maybe that will help a little?
http://eat3d.com/free/floating_geo
Can someone give a more elaborate explanation what i have to do here? Would be much appreciated.
Easy, Maya example:
But as i understand it this tutorial is supposed to work in a way that i could still go back afterwards and tweak the original part.
This is what they guy wrote on his deviantart page for extra explanation:
try it, report progress:)
works almost the same way in max, just different terminology instead of the bend deformer use the bend modifier.
for the instance problem, you just select 1 instance, and hit attach and attache them all into one object.
It should work according the tutorial that i posted but it doesn't for me.
Alternatively, put all the objects in a Group before applying the Bend modifier.
Awesome! That's the answer i was looking for. Thanks a lot.
Instance_Guide 3DSMAX 2011 Max File
Now I am curious how to take It one step further?
Say with in my max file I wanted to adjust the spacing between the cylinders how would I create a position adjustment that will update all the cylinders to reflect the changes made to the original?
Insets and extrusions on curved surfaces in subdivision modeling is notoriously hard to do because the support loops will break the equidistance and cause things like pinching. When doing a shape like this you are much better off getting the shape right, and then subdivide and do the inset last.
From left to right. Highpoly, Subdiv model smoothed, Subdiv model unsmoothed.
Edit: Question though: if I get the shape right with the edgeflow in for an easy cut-out, wouldn't smoothing it (like actual smoothing, not the preview) smooth out everything and I'll lose the edge contours I want?
Example:
Since this surface is a little curved, manually moving the vertices back to straight edges would be a real hassle.
(Used the bottom instead of the cockpit area as an example, because the cockpit area is made up of a simple intersecting grid, so that problem doesn't happen there.)
Edit2: Figured out I can select all the edges on the mesh, then just deselect the future-cutout ones and smooth, then manually connect the edge loops. Is this okay? Although, that means I'll have to smooth again. Does that mean I'll have to go in and get rid of 90% of the resulting edge loops so I don't end up with a ridiculous poly count? This isn't a game model, so I don't think I'll be making a low poly.
1. How on earth am I supposed to get the trigger frame to morph into the handle??
2. How can I better topologize this? It's causing some pinching.
Here's a smooth of what I have so far:
I've been working on this thing for over 10 hours and have barely progressed and I feel awful now.
As for the other someone might come around, I haven't dabbled into any of this yet so I can't help but I am enjoying reading this entire thread.
This thread is the most interested for me, i learn a lot browsing this, but i have some problem with subd modeling.
So, i just want the red sketched shape, obviously with proper midpoly geometry, smooth edges, etc. But if try the triangle based main part geo (left), i have the problem with control loops. If trying some qouick quad base thing, the control loops on the corner of shape was too close together (green lines in right side shape). Manually put them right place was much time and not possible any geometry. I hope some help, and i know, this is not very difficult (for you)
Not perfect - it still need few support edges.
Could someone kindly show me how I can model this star shaped bolt/screw?
It's driving me :poly127:
Thankyou!
Use more geo and it's easy to just cut those pieces out :P
Thankyou matey, managed to get it somewhat close to that. Could do with some refining, but atleast I have the shape!
But could you guys please take your time to walk me through what i am doing wrong here. And should i redo the whole thing?
I need help with the red shapes.
Cheers in before hand.
Wirrexx
sorry for the bad Prt-Scrn. mode
oh btw. Im totally noob on doing SUB-D. Its hard. I feel like when it gets down to more advance shape i lose focus. But i want to challenge myself all the time.
Just being a noob, hate to get stuck on stuff like this. I'm not getting the form right and it kind of pissing me off!
Recently I find myself questioning when I should start seperate shapes or to keep parts as one mesh. I'm thinking of modeling the below (subd of course), but I'm not sure if I should break it up or not.
What advice can you guys give? How would you break this model up, if at all?
I normally separate my model into parts as they would be in real life, so in this instance I would model the grip and trigger guard as one piece, the body of the gun as one piece, the barrel as one piece and the magazine as one piece etc.
Basically if it moves or can be taken apart in real life, model it in that way. Oh and use floating geo. for the screws...you will save yourself headaches that way.
Thanks for the advice!
Anyone care to help?
How do I maintain the rectangular shapes? After subdiving rectangles turns into circles.
Also, any ways to deal with "bad topology"?
P.S I work in 3ds max if that matters. Thanks.
Original model
Original model in hidden line mode
Subdivided model
Bad topology example
Both only work for even sided cylinders.
Regarding the square becoming a circle, it's due to needing supporting loops. You should look them up, but I'll give you a quick walkthrough for this.
Subdivision averages over areas without definition (not sure if this is the proper way to describe it, but it's more or less true). So if you have a square without any supporting loops (definition), it'll average over the corners and become circular. By adding in more definition, the subdivision algorithm will average over a small area and just give you rounded corners etc. That's why extra iterations of subd won't make as much difference to a mesh's shape.
For circular shapes, adding in support loops can break the shape. The sides of the circle need to be evenly space to remain circular. So we get around this by adding in more sides, and use those as supporting edges! Then we add in the rest, and it looks something like this:
Yeah, you're right. I should wait to wake up in the morning before trying to give advice :P Derp on my part.
Thank you guys, ILU