I completely disagree. The initial uproar may have been because of this. Looters quickly saw an opportunity to over power policing and take what they like. The riots now have nothing to do with the original uproar, race, gender or ethnicity. Its scum of all ages trying to get a freeby. Its just mass ram raiding, mugging and arson.
As far as the riots go, I believe it's just people being opportunistic and robbing and looting under the guise of a cause. You've had black kids, white kids even grown men robbing and looting, the links are all there on the BBC.
yea the moment people started looting stores and what not, the protest was over and it became criminal opportunist shit. it is sad what it has come to, but it doesnt change the fact that all this started with a valid cause.
it is not ok to defend the riots/looting but it is also not ok to ignore the cause of the roits.
I completely disagree. The initial uproar may have been because of this. Looters quickly saw an opportunity to overpower the police and take what they like. The riots now have nothing to do with the original uproar, race, gender or ethnicity. Its scum of all ages and backgrounds trying to get a freeby. Its just mass ram raiding, mugging and arson.
once again reading fail!. i said core reason that started the riots...
you are disagreeing and agreeing with me in the same paragraph.
starting with a valid cause doesn't change the fact that it's continued without one. and let's bring up the fact that now, 3 people in birmingham are dead, 3 people who were trying to defend their property, got run down by a car.
starting with a valid cause doesn't change the fact that it's continued without one. and let's bring up the fact that now, 3 people in birmingham are dead, 3 people who were trying to defend their property, got run down by a car.
like i said, the riots don't make any sense any more.
BUT
if you ignore the cause like many people are then that is a bigger problem.
ignoring such issues is what leads to anarchy. discussions should be target to why this started.
like i said, the riots don't make any sense any more.
BUT
if you ignore the cause like many people are then that is a bigger problem.
ignoring such issues is what leads to anarchy. discussions should be target to why this started.
I think the misconception here is that anyone who is upset about the riots is ignoring the cause. I don't really see that, I think its fairly clear why people were initially upset, however what has been happening for the past few days now, just random looting an arson with absolutely no rhyme or reason, damaging property to people in their own community, attacking firefighters, this is all just disgusting.
You can realize the root cause of the problem, and still be totally against the actions of the rioters. Its not a one way street where once you realize there is a problem with society, the rioters are somehow the good guys or the victims here, that is just total shit.
"i think it is safe to say that at the core of this riot is the issue of social discrimination based...blah blah blah..."
nothing to do with "started teh riots" in there. Your statement is present tense meaning the riots atm.
if you are going to take once sentence out of context then u fail to read.
here it is in BOLD RED to see it clearly:
i think it is safe to say that at the core of this riot is the issue of social discrimination based on race, gender, ethnicity etc. the killing of Mark Duggan was the final straw that started it all.
I think the misconception here is that anyone who is upset about the riots is ignoring the cause. I don't really see that, I think its fairly clear why people were initially upset, however what has been happening for the past few days now, just random looting an arson with absolutely no rhyme or reason, damaging property to people in their own community, attacking firefighters, this is all just disgusting.
You can realize the root cause of the problem, and still be totally against the actions of the rioters. Its not a one way street where once you realize there is a problem with society, the rioters are somehow the good guys or the victims here, that is just total shit.
i never said they are the good guys, or else i would be supporting them.
if u really understand what i am saying then you should understand that not caring/finding solutions about the real issues that started all of this can start riots again anywhere anytime because people got caught up with the aftermath of the riot and not what started the riots.
it is like treating the symptoms of a disease, and not finding any cure.
yea the moment people started looting stores and what not, the protest was over and it became criminal opportunist shit. it is sad what it has come to, but it doesnt change the fact that all this started with a valid cause.
it is not ok to defend the riots/looting but it is also not ok to ignore the cause of the roits.
I don't think anyone has ignored the cause, it's been covered in the earlier pages of this thread. However as a black male that has lived in London and faced discrimination from the law for no reason other than my colour, I don't particularly think Mark Duggan getting shot would suddenly prompt an outrage of these proportions.
There have been numerous cases of racial crime either institutional or otherwise in this country for years and some may say done to people who weren't in "compromising situations" at the time.
It started with 300 just marching, seeking justice the police tried to disperse them and then missiles started being thrown. It's very easy for people to start trouble and disguise it as something else, and I believe that's what has happened here.
Of course I may be wrong but it's my opinion and you're more than welcome to disagree. :poly121:
Ben, i've got to say that's the most ignorant thing i've ever read from you.
Really? Haha. You've missed some posts in the last two years!
And I come from a not-very-privileged background, not that it matters. I had to live most of last year in a hostel, sleeping in a room with 10-odd other people; coming 'home' from work/looking for work to find my food eaten, and had my stuff stolen twice (not cheap shit either). And I've never attacked other people or looted. This looting has nothing to do with class or race.
Seeing that video, seeing police retreat from thung teenagers, really has me wanting the army to step in, and bring the rubber bullets. Its time for it I think, it might fizzle out on its own eventually, but I think its an appropriate response at this time.
like i said, the riots don't make any sense any more.
Riots don't make sense in the first place. A riot is not a protest, it is a tantrum, and looting is just plain criminal activity.
I DO understand how people can get to this state, but that doesn't make it right. Also, like others have stated, you've probably got a better shot at making it in the UK as a poor blighter than you do here in the US.
This shit would have gone south days ago in the US, just look at LA and what happened during Katrina. Scary thought.
I think the misconception here is that anyone who is upset about the riots is ignoring the cause. I don't really see that, I think its fairly clear why people were initially upset, however what has been happening for the past few days now, just random looting an arson with absolutely no rhyme or reason, damaging property to people in their own community, attacking firefighters, this is all just disgusting.
You can realize the root cause of the problem, and still be totally against the actions of the rioters. Its not a one way street where once you realize there is a problem with society, the rioters are somehow the good guys or the victims here, that is just total shit.
But you have to admit that's a bit of an understatement.
So we're admitting that after years of abuse, and one final straw, the whole thing exploded. And also that we can see why people were upset. But! now that they're upset, they need to calm down? Doesn't really make sense to me.
Me personally, I'm from the middle-east, and whenever I see any of these riots it strikes me that while sad, it also serves them right. Not talking just about London here, but also back in Egypt, Libya, Greece, Spain, etc. I know they're all different, and happen for different causes. But the bottom line is that you have a group of people who were pushed too far for too long and finally there's a backlash. I don't see how it's fair to say that the backlash itself is fair, but its consequences aren't.
i never said they are the good guys, or else i would be supporting them.
if u really understand what i am saying then you should understand that not caring/finding solutions about the real issues that started all of this can start riots again anywhere anytime because people got caught up with the aftermath of the riot and not what started the riots.
it is like treating the symptoms of a disease, and not finding any cure.
Yes because talking about the situation on polycount is going to solve the problem. I mean seriously, I don't really see what you're getting at. Like I said the plight of the lower class is generally well understood. Because I'm not getting on a soap box and going rah rah rah, on an internet forum, I'm ignoring the issue?
Atleast come here with some suggestions on what people can actually do, that would make a difference. Sitting on your computer, and talking about the issue with other generally middle class people is just as much ignoring it as anything anyone here is doing.
People like to talk big about how they care about issues, how important things are, and how someone should do something about it. But until you actually do, its just talk, and its meaningless. Sure we would all love to end hunger and have world peace, but saying it on the internet isn't actually changing anything.
i never said they are the good guys, or else i would be supporting them.
if u really understand what i am saying then you should understand that not caring/finding solutions about the real issues that started all of this can start riots again anywhere anytime because people got caught up with the aftermath of the riot and not what started the riots.
it is like treating the symptoms of a disease, and not finding any cure.
We care, but using your analogy, what if the disease is cancer? or Aids? What do we do then? If the ROOT cause of this problem is what you say it is what do you suggest the downtrodden do? Have a peaceful march like the initial 300 and have rioters cause carnage? Write a letter to our local MP whilst he's sunning himself in his second holiday home claimed on tax payer expenses?
Maybe do what Stephen Lawrence's parents do and follow the proper channels in a court of law, and still wait for justice decades later?
It's all too easy to throw comments out, but the solution aren't as easy to come by.
@poop
How dare you assume that everyone who has an opinion that differs from your own is from a middle class family or was born into privilege? I have worked my ass of getting the basics to survive over the years. I worked in a factories for over 10yrs doing 6am starts and 48hr+ weeks, so i could make enough money to start buying a house.
When i lived near Birmingham, I was in a block of flats that contained 8 dwellings and 5 were occupied with heroin addicts. I lived there for 3 years. Yea, privileged life ftw!
No matter what the upbringing of the people who are rioting, there is no excuse for what they are doing. Just sticking a tag on them because it makes the situation more easily digestible to the media is ridiculous.
They are punishing the people who work hard within their own communities because they don't have a Playstation? Give me a break.
The UK is not a 3rd world country and no one goes without. We have one of the most comprehensive and generous welfare systems in the world, where everyone is entitled to a basic sum of money whilst looking for work, free healthcare for those who dont pay N.I, money if you are too sick to work, up to £20k per year rent payments if you don't or cant work and Council tax payments get made.
These entitlements are on an indefinite basis, or until your circumstances change. (get a job or become well enough to work)
No matter how poor or disadvantaged these people are, it doesn't give them the right to ruin other peoples livelihoods.
These people don't have nothing, but they feel entitled to everything.
THIS! Couldn't have said it better.
I hate how these rioters say that they are poor. By the looks of it most of them have smartphones, clean clothing, their fed, have roof over their heads etc. They have no idea what it is to be poor.
As Andy said UK has one of the most generous welfare systems in the world.
I was surprised of how much people think they are entitled to just by being lazy. When I arrived to work here it was almost a cultural shock - you could actually get money by being lazy, pretending you've got bad back and saying you can't find work. Not just few hundred pounds but thousands of pounds a month.
And when government starts cutting all this stuff, its the people who are really in need of it that suffer the most.
All this free money from benefits has raised a generation which now have their own children, which don't see the point in working any more. They don't see the point in contributing for the society in any kind of way. They just stay at home drinking strong lager and watching tv while being paid huge benefits.
So when friends of them say - hey lets go have some fun punching out shop windows they do it. They have nothing to lose. They just think of it as an opportunity to get a new, better, bigger LCD.
The UK is not a 3rd world country and no one goes without. We have one of the most comprehensive and generous welfare systems in the world, where everyone is entitled to a basic sum of money whilst looking for work, free healthcare for those who dont pay N.I, money if you are too sick to work, up to £20k per year rent payments if you don't or cant work and Council tax payments get made.
These entitlements are on an indefinite basis, or until your circumstances change. (get a job or become well enough to work)
indeed
maybe they could have spent the money they spent travelling to a nearby area to smash shit up on a bus fare to one of the absolutely world-class, mindblowing museums, galleries and libraries in the capital provided entirely for free for their own fucking benefit
Yes because talking about the situation on polycount is going to solve the problem. I mean seriously, I don't really see what you're getting at. Like I said the plight of the lower class is generally well understood. Because I'm not getting on a soap box and going rah rah rah, on an internet forum, I'm ignoring the issue?
Atleast come here with some suggestions on what people can actually do, that would make a difference. Sitting on your computer, and talking about the issue with other generally middle class people is just as much ignoring it as anything anyone here is doing.
People like to talk big about how they care about issues, how important things are, and how someone should do something about it. But until you actually do, its just talk, and its meaningless. Sure we would all love to end hunger and have world peace, but saying it on the internet isn't actually changing anything.
if talking was meaningless there would still be slavery here in USA.
eld: that's terrifying
stinger: bah! the video cut off! I want to know about the crown court... google it is, to learning i go.
Has there been any rain in London yet (maybe silly question?)? I know the Cincinnati Riots of 2001 (started by similar events) were helped to stop by rain... well rain and a curfew.
if talking was meaningless there would still be slavery here in USA.
Sure, sure. Carry on with your self-important self-rightous conversations, to like minded people who have no real ability to change the circumstance of the situations you're rallying against. And then compare it to slavery, maybe you can compare me to hitler with your next post, that surely will represent a true sense of context. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself, you know, as long as you dont actually have to physically do anything about it.
I will ask again, do you have any suggestions for what people can do to make a difference? Or do you just think "The Man" is browsing polycount and taking notes?
Sure, sure. Carry on with your self-important self-rightous conversations, to like minded people who have no real ability to change the circumstance of the situations you're rallying against. And then compare it to slavery, maybe you can compare me to hitler with your next post, that surely will represent a true sense of context. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself, you know, as long as you dont actually have to physically do anything about it.
I will ask again, do you have any suggestions for what people can do to make a difference? Or do you just think "The Man" is browsing polycount and taking notes?
i dont understand why you are getting so defensive man! chill out. we are having a civil discussion.
my suggestion is being aware of the issues and stand up for those who are the victims of such issues. social inequality is a fact. talking about it creates more awareness and hopefully encourages people to pass it on to people who are more ignorant. it is about fighting ignorance.
the more inequality there is the more possibility there is for such protests occur and lead to violent riots because the ugly side of human nature takes over.
btw in israel, there are protests going on right now and thankfully it is not violent. but the protests are due to social inequality and the protests started with people talking and being aware of it collectively.
if you are going to take once sentence out of context then u fail to read.
here it is in BOLD RED to see it clearly:
i think it is safe to say that at the core of this riot is the issue of social discrimination based on race, gender, ethnicity etc. the killing of Mark Duggan was the final straw that started it all.
I didnt take anything out of context. Your statement says "the core of THIS riot is". The end bit saying "the killing of Mark Duggan was the final straw that started it all" doesnt expain that you meant the to say was something along the lines of "the core of the initial riots were"
So before you start saying things like "once again reading fail!. i said core reason that started teh riots. learn to read."
Learn how to express what you mean properely first, eh.
I didnt take anything out of context. Your statement says "the core of THIS riot is". The end bit saying "the killing of Mark Duggan was the final straw that started it all" doesnt expain that you meant the to say something along the lines of "the core of the initial riots were"
So before you start saying things like "once again reading fail!. i said core reason that started teh riots. learn to read."
Learn how to express what you mean properely first, eh.
thanks for correcting me. english isn't my first language!
but reading all of my other posts in this thread should have made it clear what my point is.
i dont understand why you are getting so defensive man! chill out. we are having a civil discussion.
my suggestion is being aware of the issues and stand up for those who are the victims of such issues. social inequality is a fact. talking about it creates more awareness and hopefully encourages people to pass it on to people who are more ignorant. it is about fighting ignorance.
Sorry I dont mean to fly off the handle at you specifically man, but bringing up slavery as if it is a relevant comparison is just tasteless and insulting to the real struggles that came from abolishing slavery.
I am a very liberal person, and generally agree with what you're saying. I'm just sick of people talking big talk about how terrible things are, but never really doing anything about it. Being "aware" isn't really doing anything about it. Its just a nice way to say you acknowledge the situation but are still choosing to be lazy.
I will be the first to admit there is a lot about society that I feel is wrong, corrupt, etc. But I will also be the first to admit that I'm too lazy to honestly do anything about it. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that talking about issue X that we're all going to forget about in two weeks, on polycount, has any real effect on society.
I think its only reasonable to expect the people who are most out spoken on these issues to actually get out and do something about it, otherwise its just hypocrisy.
Sorry I dont mean to fly off the handle at you specifically man, but bringing up slavery as if it is a relevant comparison is just tasteless.
I am a very liberal person, and generally agree with what you're saying. I'm just sick of people talking big talk about how terrible things are, but never really doing anything about it. Being "aware" isn't really doing anything about it. Its just a nice way to say you acknowledge the situation but are still choosing to be lazy.
I will be the first to admit there is a lot about society that I fell is wrong, corrupt, etc. But I will also be the first to admit that I'm too lazy to honestly do anything about it. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that talking about issue X that we're all going to forget about in two weeks, on polycount, has any real effect on society.
I think its only reasonable to expect the people who are most out spoken on these issues, to actually get out and do something about it, otherwise its just hypocrisy.
i totally understand your point.
and i am not here to make "big talks" but frankly it is safer to bring up such issues in an online forum than to physically go in the streets and hold up a card board and protest to it. i am just scared that i would be profiled easily and jailed for nothing.
that is just the reality. so yea, may be that is hypocrisy but i am doing what i think is possible in my means without getting in the target of the US gov/law enforcement.
anyone who speaks out about anything that is wrong about this country is automatically labeled as anti-american or non-patriotic. but i find it non-patriotic to not critisize such issues so that things can be better.
I am a very liberal person, and generally agree with what you're saying. I'm just sick of people talking big talk about how terrible things are, but never really doing anything about it. Being "aware" isn't really doing anything about it. Its just a nice way to say you acknowledge the situation but are still choosing to be lazy.
I agree with that, but the problem is that everyone and their mothers have a different idea of just what "doing something about it" actually is. I think everyone has in their minds both the problem, and their version of a solution. But that's hardly ever the same from person to person.
Then there's an air of "working together" to reach some sort of compromise between the different opinions. But it never works out that way. It ends up being a few sides each pushing for what they want, and at the end nothing gets done. So it feels like nothing ever changes.
OK. I'm going to be different and not have a quote in my post addressing someone else's points. Forum topics like this always end up in retarded quoting arguments.
I would say that discussing this and becoming "aware" of things IS taking action, as awareness spreads, action can form soon after. The greater the awareness the greater the action. So although we might not go out into the street and take action (yet) we are still participating in change on this forum.
Blaming "idiots and scum" for the riots isn't going to fix the issue, the real question is why do they exist and why are they looting? You know its not an isolated issue when it spreads across the whole country, there has to be a problem. Is it their mentality? Education? Opportunities?
Blaming "idiots and scum" for the riots isn't going to fix the issue, the real question is why do they exist and why are they looting? You know its not an isolated issue when it spreads across the whole country, there has to be a problem. Is it their mentality? Education? Opportunities?
I'm wondering now if there was someone somewhere wearing a powdered wig maybe during the 1500's wondering if pirates were pirates because their daddy never played catch with them. Some people are morally bankrupt, and opportunistic, and if they see others getting away with something, they too will try it. It has nothing to do with society. NO-THING.
I'm wondering now if there was someone somewhere wearing a powdered wig maybe during the 1500's wondering if pirates were pirates because their daddy never played catch with them. Some people are morally bankrupt, and opportunistic, and if they see others getting away with something, they too will try it. It has nothing to do with society. NO-THING.
I'm wondering now if there was someone somewhere wearing a powdered wig maybe during the 1500's wondering if pirates were pirates because their daddy never played catch with them. Some people are morally bankrupt, and opportunistic, and if they see others getting away with something, they too will try it. It has nothing to do with society. NO-THING.
A large number of the rioters are poor black men, if there's a correlation within the looters, then its not just random morally bankrupt people.
"Britain also has one of the highest violent crime rates in the EU and alarmingly high youth unemployment roughly 18 percent of youths between 16 and 24 are jobless and nearly half of all young black youths are out of work."
I'm wondering now if there was someone somewhere wearing a powdered wig maybe during the 1500's wondering if pirates were pirates because their daddy never played catch with them. Some people are morally bankrupt, and opportunistic, and if they see others getting away with something, they too will try it. It has nothing to do with society. NO-THING.
A lot of what we call pirates today where actually privateers. Private vessels commissioned into service by governments to disrupt trade routes and steal whatever they could. Typically the British and French wrecking havoc on the Spanish, although everyone got into the game. Some privateers letters of marque where revoked for questionable acts and they went right on doing what they always did, this time being called pirates and enemies of everyone.
It's kind of weird how monsters born from the governments ended up causing a lot of trouble for them... There might be a parallel to draw?
What you're saying might actually be more true for modern day Somali pirates, where everyone with a plank of wood and fire arm, seems to be getting into the "high jack a tanker" game.
So Andreas makes a statement about how people are morally bankrupt and opportunistic and you charge in with your accurate statistic about poor black people being the majority of the looters, based on an Associated Press article.
Quick question:
What's your point?
Furthermore, are you saying that ALL the unemployed black people without jobs suddenly decided to go and loot and riot, I mean, being unemployed and black means you should go looting right, a lack of morality has NOTHING to do with it.
I've read so many retarded comments on this thread by people who should know better, it amazes me.
"Britain also has one of the highest violent crime rates in the EU and alarmingly high youth unemployment roughly 18 percent of youths between 16 and 24 are jobless and nearly half of all young black youths are out of work."
most people who are out of work want to be that way.
LOL
the most ridiculous statement in this whole thread, considering the number of people i know personally on these forums out of work desparatly looking for a job, yeah i am sure they want to be that way.
Replies
QFT
yea the moment people started looting stores and what not, the protest was over and it became criminal opportunist shit. it is sad what it has come to, but it doesnt change the fact that all this started with a valid cause.
it is not ok to defend the riots/looting but it is also not ok to ignore the cause of the roits.
once again reading fail!. i said core reason that started the riots...
you are disagreeing and agreeing with me in the same paragraph.
no you didn't, it says:
"i think it is safe to say that at the core of this riot is the issue of social discrimination based...blah blah blah..."
nothing to do with "started teh riots" in there. Your statement is present tense meaning the riots atm.
like i said, the riots don't make any sense any more.
BUT
if you ignore the cause like many people are then that is a bigger problem.
ignoring such issues is what leads to anarchy. discussions should be target to why this started.
I think the misconception here is that anyone who is upset about the riots is ignoring the cause. I don't really see that, I think its fairly clear why people were initially upset, however what has been happening for the past few days now, just random looting an arson with absolutely no rhyme or reason, damaging property to people in their own community, attacking firefighters, this is all just disgusting.
You can realize the root cause of the problem, and still be totally against the actions of the rioters. Its not a one way street where once you realize there is a problem with society, the rioters are somehow the good guys or the victims here, that is just total shit.
if you are going to take once sentence out of context then u fail to read.
here it is in BOLD RED to see it clearly:
i never said they are the good guys, or else i would be supporting them.
if u really understand what i am saying then you should understand that not caring/finding solutions about the real issues that started all of this can start riots again anywhere anytime because people got caught up with the aftermath of the riot and not what started the riots.
it is like treating the symptoms of a disease, and not finding any cure.
I don't think anyone has ignored the cause, it's been covered in the earlier pages of this thread. However as a black male that has lived in London and faced discrimination from the law for no reason other than my colour, I don't particularly think Mark Duggan getting shot would suddenly prompt an outrage of these proportions.
There have been numerous cases of racial crime either institutional or otherwise in this country for years and some may say done to people who weren't in "compromising situations" at the time.
It started with 300 just marching, seeking justice the police tried to disperse them and then missiles started being thrown. It's very easy for people to start trouble and disguise it as something else, and I believe that's what has happened here.
Of course I may be wrong but it's my opinion and you're more than welcome to disagree. :poly121:
Really? Haha. You've missed some posts in the last two years!
And I come from a not-very-privileged background, not that it matters. I had to live most of last year in a hostel, sleeping in a room with 10-odd other people; coming 'home' from work/looking for work to find my food eaten, and had my stuff stolen twice (not cheap shit either). And I've never attacked other people or looted. This looting has nothing to do with class or race.
Seeing that video, seeing police retreat from thung teenagers, really has me wanting the army to step in, and bring the rubber bullets. Its time for it I think, it might fizzle out on its own eventually, but I think its an appropriate response at this time.
Riots don't make sense in the first place. A riot is not a protest, it is a tantrum, and looting is just plain criminal activity.
I DO understand how people can get to this state, but that doesn't make it right. Also, like others have stated, you've probably got a better shot at making it in the UK as a poor blighter than you do here in the US.
This shit would have gone south days ago in the US, just look at LA and what happened during Katrina. Scary thought.
But you have to admit that's a bit of an understatement.
So we're admitting that after years of abuse, and one final straw, the whole thing exploded. And also that we can see why people were upset. But! now that they're upset, they need to calm down? Doesn't really make sense to me.
Me personally, I'm from the middle-east, and whenever I see any of these riots it strikes me that while sad, it also serves them right. Not talking just about London here, but also back in Egypt, Libya, Greece, Spain, etc. I know they're all different, and happen for different causes. But the bottom line is that you have a group of people who were pushed too far for too long and finally there's a backlash. I don't see how it's fair to say that the backlash itself is fair, but its consequences aren't.
Yes because talking about the situation on polycount is going to solve the problem. I mean seriously, I don't really see what you're getting at. Like I said the plight of the lower class is generally well understood. Because I'm not getting on a soap box and going rah rah rah, on an internet forum, I'm ignoring the issue?
Atleast come here with some suggestions on what people can actually do, that would make a difference. Sitting on your computer, and talking about the issue with other generally middle class people is just as much ignoring it as anything anyone here is doing.
People like to talk big about how they care about issues, how important things are, and how someone should do something about it. But until you actually do, its just talk, and its meaningless. Sure we would all love to end hunger and have world peace, but saying it on the internet isn't actually changing anything.
We care, but using your analogy, what if the disease is cancer? or Aids? What do we do then? If the ROOT cause of this problem is what you say it is what do you suggest the downtrodden do? Have a peaceful march like the initial 300 and have rioters cause carnage? Write a letter to our local MP whilst he's sunning himself in his second holiday home claimed on tax payer expenses?
Maybe do what Stephen Lawrence's parents do and follow the proper channels in a court of law, and still wait for justice decades later?
It's all too easy to throw comments out, but the solution aren't as easy to come by.
THIS! Couldn't have said it better.
I hate how these rioters say that they are poor. By the looks of it most of them have smartphones, clean clothing, their fed, have roof over their heads etc. They have no idea what it is to be poor.
As Andy said UK has one of the most generous welfare systems in the world.
I was surprised of how much people think they are entitled to just by being lazy. When I arrived to work here it was almost a cultural shock - you could actually get money by being lazy, pretending you've got bad back and saying you can't find work. Not just few hundred pounds but thousands of pounds a month.
And when government starts cutting all this stuff, its the people who are really in need of it that suffer the most.
All this free money from benefits has raised a generation which now have their own children, which don't see the point in working any more. They don't see the point in contributing for the society in any kind of way. They just stay at home drinking strong lager and watching tv while being paid huge benefits.
So when friends of them say - hey lets go have some fun punching out shop windows they do it. They have nothing to lose. They just think of it as an opportunity to get a new, better, bigger LCD.
indeed
maybe they could have spent the money they spent travelling to a nearby area to smash shit up on a bus fare to one of the absolutely world-class, mindblowing museums, galleries and libraries in the capital provided entirely for free for their own fucking benefit
wankers
if talking was meaningless there would still be slavery here in USA.
stinger: bah! the video cut off! I want to know about the crown court... google it is, to learning i go.
Has there been any rain in London yet (maybe silly question?)? I know the Cincinnati Riots of 2001 (started by similar events) were helped to stop by rain... well rain and a curfew.
Sure, sure. Carry on with your self-important self-rightous conversations, to like minded people who have no real ability to change the circumstance of the situations you're rallying against. And then compare it to slavery, maybe you can compare me to hitler with your next post, that surely will represent a true sense of context. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself, you know, as long as you dont actually have to physically do anything about it.
I will ask again, do you have any suggestions for what people can do to make a difference? Or do you just think "The Man" is browsing polycount and taking notes?
i dont understand why you are getting so defensive man! chill out. we are having a civil discussion.
my suggestion is being aware of the issues and stand up for those who are the victims of such issues. social inequality is a fact. talking about it creates more awareness and hopefully encourages people to pass it on to people who are more ignorant. it is about fighting ignorance.
the more inequality there is the more possibility there is for such protests occur and lead to violent riots because the ugly side of human nature takes over.
btw in israel, there are protests going on right now and thankfully it is not violent. but the protests are due to social inequality and the protests started with people talking and being aware of it collectively.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424
[ame]
they have a few audio only interview up from looters, and they are just as horrifyingly stupid
I didnt take anything out of context. Your statement says "the core of THIS riot is". The end bit saying "the killing of Mark Duggan was the final straw that started it all" doesnt expain that you meant the to say was something along the lines of "the core of the initial riots were"
So before you start saying things like "once again reading fail!. i said core reason that started teh riots. learn to read."
Learn how to express what you mean properely first, eh.
thanks for correcting me. english isn't my first language!
but reading all of my other posts in this thread should have made it clear what my point is.
Sorry I dont mean to fly off the handle at you specifically man, but bringing up slavery as if it is a relevant comparison is just tasteless and insulting to the real struggles that came from abolishing slavery.
I am a very liberal person, and generally agree with what you're saying. I'm just sick of people talking big talk about how terrible things are, but never really doing anything about it. Being "aware" isn't really doing anything about it. Its just a nice way to say you acknowledge the situation but are still choosing to be lazy.
I will be the first to admit there is a lot about society that I feel is wrong, corrupt, etc. But I will also be the first to admit that I'm too lazy to honestly do anything about it. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that talking about issue X that we're all going to forget about in two weeks, on polycount, has any real effect on society.
I think its only reasonable to expect the people who are most out spoken on these issues to actually get out and do something about it, otherwise its just hypocrisy.
i totally understand your point.
and i am not here to make "big talks" but frankly it is safer to bring up such issues in an online forum than to physically go in the streets and hold up a card board and protest to it. i am just scared that i would be profiled easily and jailed for nothing.
that is just the reality. so yea, may be that is hypocrisy but i am doing what i think is possible in my means without getting in the target of the US gov/law enforcement.
anyone who speaks out about anything that is wrong about this country is automatically labeled as anti-american or non-patriotic. but i find it non-patriotic to not critisize such issues so that things can be better.
I hadn't seen any other posts by you in this thread. The comment I quoted is the first one as far as i'm aware.
Anyhoo. You came across being quite aggressive saying "I should learn to read", so I was mearly defending my statement.
Peace.
London Riots - Scum steal from injured boy
[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports"][/ame]
amazon.co(.)uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/
(remove braces)
What is? Just out of curiosity.
I agree with that, but the problem is that everyone and their mothers have a different idea of just what "doing something about it" actually is. I think everyone has in their minds both the problem, and their version of a solution. But that's hardly ever the same from person to person.
Then there's an air of "working together" to reach some sort of compromise between the different opinions. But it never works out that way. It ends up being a few sides each pushing for what they want, and at the end nothing gets done. So it feels like nothing ever changes.
off topic but here you go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_language
I would say that discussing this and becoming "aware" of things IS taking action, as awareness spreads, action can form soon after. The greater the awareness the greater the action. So although we might not go out into the street and take action (yet) we are still participating in change on this forum.
I'm wondering now if there was someone somewhere wearing a powdered wig maybe during the 1500's wondering if pirates were pirates because their daddy never played catch with them. Some people are morally bankrupt, and opportunistic, and if they see others getting away with something, they too will try it. It has nothing to do with society. NO-THING.
QFT
A large number of the rioters are poor black men, if there's a correlation within the looters, then its not just random morally bankrupt people.
NO
THEY
AREN'T.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5igex2_b56NKbtht5xeQJKuBk0bow?docId=cd4093495fc14bd5bf72dbe784f6c2f1
It's kind of weird how monsters born from the governments ended up causing a lot of trouble for them... There might be a parallel to draw?
What you're saying might actually be more true for modern day Somali pirates, where everyone with a plank of wood and fire arm, seems to be getting into the "high jack a tanker" game.
Quick question:
What's your point?
Furthermore, are you saying that ALL the unemployed black people without jobs suddenly decided to go and loot and riot, I mean, being unemployed and black means you should go looting right, a lack of morality has NOTHING to do with it.
I've read so many retarded comments on this thread by people who should know better, it amazes me.
And... what. You know that its those people out looting?
And believe me... most people who are out of work want to be that way.
LOL
the most ridiculous statement in this whole thread, considering the number of people i know personally on these forums out of work desparatly looking for a job, yeah i am sure they want to be that way.