No one is condoning the riots, they are pointing out why they had happened. Lack of opportunity, perceived systematic abuses by the power structure, and the liquidation of social programmes (such as youth clubs), have culminated in a mass of young people who are happy and ready to engage in this sort of behaviour. On an individual level, I expect that most of them are not discussing socialist policy and revolution. However youths who do see themselves with a real future, and do have faith in law enforcement and other arms of the state, would be much less likely to take part in the riots. Overall there is a distinction between the individual motives for joining in the riots and the overall social malaise that removed any incentive to forebear from that behaviour.
That one is from the LA riots... I really hope it doesn't get that ugly... It's pretty much hit that level in the case of property damage, I just hope it doesn't end in revenge beatings like LA did.
People can say the rioters are opportunistic but honestly if they where happy with their status in society then they probably wouldn't be smashing windows and stealing jeans... They would be out guarding their cars instead of setting fire to others.
If you're part of the "have not" crowd you have very little to lose by going out and smashing store fronts, but probably have a lot to gain...
If nothing comes of it then someone else who seems indifferent to the pain you feel every day gets to feel some of it. That underlying every day pain that is inflicted on the average and every day citizen, is what needs to be addressed by the world leaders, everywhere. If they where not so out of touch and separated by a giant wall of wealth and police protection they might hear the murmurings and head them off before things got out of hand.
Do I agree with the methods, no. But sometimes non-violent civil disobedience is the only way to make the "haves" pay any attention. If that doesn't work then you're driven to violence... Yes its your personal choice to use violence but there are times its the only choice you have left. It's sad that no one listens as the other choices evaporate... You can only push people so far.
The people turn out to Clean up Clapham, Starbucks and Recipease giving out free coffee and food to the cleaners. Kinda restores your faith in the Uk populace.
That one is from the LA riots... I really hope it doesn't get that ugly... It's pretty much hit that level in the case of property damage, I just hope it doesn't end in revenge beatings like LA did.
What do you mean, black people were set upon? Jesus if british 'white nationalists' or football hooligans get involved in this it'll get pretty damn ugly.
I don't think you have thought this through if you don't think these three groups are connected. The rich fund the government and get what they want, and the police are the arm of the government to enforce it's policies. It's entirely consistent to be angry at all 3. (I know I am)
The girl was just picking random stuff of the top of her head and didn't even know which party was in government or what she was rioting for. It was all buzz words.
The factors may all be linked but i don't think she realises it :P
I think that these people are rioting because they had the chance too and nothing more. There is no higher goal other than to cause damage and loot.
What do you mean, black people were set upon? Jesus if british 'white nationalists' or football hooligans get involved in this it'll get pretty damn ugly.
So far they seem happy to cause chaos and leave it at that. In LA people where stray painted, beaten, mutilated and left for dead by roving gangs out looking for any face that wasn't friendly. All in all 20-25 people died in the LA riots? And the military had to step in.
I'm not saying its a race thing in London, but I hope they leave it at destruction of public property and the lynch mobs don't start rolling around. "Get the others" whoever the others are, is a level no one wants to see this go to.
I just hope that public officials who are normally deaf, don't look at the unrest as pure senseless anarchy. Some of it is, but as stated before the disfranchisement needs to be dealt with.
Personally I see this happening in the US again soon as the US comes to terms with its spending habits and the "haves" force most of the pain on the "have nots" as what seems to be happening in England.
The major break down to me seems to be coming from decades of cuts to the public education system (at least in the US). When you underfund public education to the point that public schools are not much more than day prisons then you have to wonder are people really being educated to a level they understand how to function in civil society properly?
How are people going to reform political problems that lead to these situations when they've only ever been taught short sightedness and barbarism? Maybe in England these types of issues don't exist and all of the rioters are well educated people with good jobs and are just out looking to spice things up and "have a little fun"...
I love how when this happens people always moan about the lack of policing. As if we should have a one to one ratio of police. How on earth do they expect the police to be everywhere.
Its no good explaining logistics to these people, "we want someone else to solve this and we want it done now!"
If they want to protect their community then sometimes they might have to defend it themselves. Or they could just cower in the closet whilst they burn their property burns around them.
The girl was just picking random stuff of the top of her head and didn't even know which party was in government or what she was rioting for. It was all buzz words.
The factors may all be linked but i don't think she realises it :P
I think that these people are rioting because they had the chance too and nothing more. There is no higher goal other than to cause damage and loot.
Historically the justification for riots has, in many cases, been post hoc. The idea that "riots took place in history because people stood for something but today it's just violence" is something that people say every time this happens. Many, many people have been on the news and said "this is the political and economic reason for the riots".
It is true that some have said it more eloquently than others, but if peoples reason for rioting is that they feel trapped and helpless, a large part of which is the lack of education in the area and the lack of opportunities from education, then that's not exactly a surprise. Hell, dismissing people because they don't speak their ideas properly like what the upper classes do is a historical class shibboleth and only exists to keep the lower classes disenfranchised.
You want a comparison for these riots? Look at the Brixton riots of pretty much dead on 30 years ago. People said they had no political point or justification but the inquiry stated clearly that it was down to the issues I have mentioned above and have been mentioned by people on here and on the news many times - and in the latter case they have largely been shouted down by the BBC or similar who just want to paint the riots as the result of thugs being thugs.
Historically the justification for riots has, in many cases, been post hoc. The idea that "riots took place in history because people stood for something but today it's just violence" is something that people say every time this happens. Many, many people have been on the news and said "this is the political and economic reason for the riots".
It is true that some have said it more eloquently than others, but if peoples reason for rioting is that they feel trapped and helpless, a large part of which is the lack of education in the area and the lack of opportunities from education, then that's not exactly a surprise. Hell, dismissing people because they don't speak their ideas properly like what the upper classes do is a historical class shibboleth and only exists to keep the lower classes disenfranchised.
You want a comparison for these riots? Look at the Brixton riots of pretty much dead on 30 years ago. People said they had no political point or justification but the inquiry stated clearly that it was down to the issues I have mentioned above and have been mentioned by people on here and on the news many times - and in the latter case they have largely been shouted down by the BBC or similar who just want to paint the riots as the result of thugs being thugs.
Im dismissing the girls comments because its obvious that she was just picking words out of the air, not because she didnt put them across very well.
If you're part of the "have not" crowd you have very little to lose by going out and smashing store fronts, but probably have a lot to gain...
This. I'm not saying what they are doing is alright, because it most certainly is not, but it's easy for me to understand this mentality.
We grew up poor as shit, but I was blessed with hardworking parents and opportunities. Take that away from me, and I could see a version of me wanting to burn this planet to ash.
When you don't have anything, not even hope, it's easy to give into anger, despair, thrill, etc, especially in a mob.
Still not the right thing to do, and I hope you folks are safe there.
Yeah, there it is again as Poop said. The BBC talking down to people. It was the same thing when the student protests and cut protests got out of hand. The BBC has a clear agenda.
yea....I love how when he started talking about actual problems like police being complete fuckin assholes to people, they just cut him off saying what he said may or may not be true and then completley tried to paint him as a previous rioter/riot advocate. his defense saying she was making herself sound like a complete idiot was totally true. mainstream media are always playing the angle they are told to.
Because all police are inhumane racists with no morals and no families.
Nice strawman, yo.
The point is not that they all are, it's that *enough* of them are for it to be a problem, and the remainder don't turn in or testify against the outright crooked ones.
You know the phrase, "a few bad apples"? Well the full thing is, "A few bad apples ruin the bunch". We can easily see what happens with a corrupt police force by watching what happens in the US. With no accountability you get brutality, racial profiling, corruption, and the like.
Just look at the outcome of the police inquiry of the original shooting, not only did the police lie about him shooting, they were inept enough for the bullet to actually be from a police officer's gun, so they shot their own people. It took a panel inquiry and the public outrage to get to the bottom of it. If the police force were on the up and up, not only would they not have murdered the guy to begin with, but the non-corrupt officers should have immediately testified that he was shot by a police officer, and that the bullet lodged in radio was from one of their own guns.
You know, everybody can judge the actions of the officers from the outside as much as they want....
...but it doesn't change the fact that nobody here witnessed what really happened. Split-second decisions where life and death are at stake... what would you do?
Fact of the matter is, you have no idea what you would do. You act purely on instinct in situations like that, to protect your life and that of your comrades. I'm talking about the 29 year old guy with the gun in this instance though.
That's why it is also hard to pass judgement on the rioters from the outside looking in. Human instinct dictates you to follow the crowd in most cases, and as a species' we rely on our instincts for every part of our lives. You can't just get rid of those primal urges, because at the end of the day we're still animals and when it comes down to it, language is the only real thing that separates us from wild animals.
We can think in terms of words and concepts we have developed based on the perspective of our species and society.
Animals think, process, and respond in terms of feelings, and that also is still a big part of who we are.
Could you really walk away when everybody around you is actually promoting such activities? At that point, your mind tells you that it is okay to join in because everybody else is doing it.
Fact of the matter is, none of us here know, for a fact, how we would handle any situation like that.
However, I do have a beef with the police who hurt innocents. When those who vow to protect you break that vow by hurting innocent people.... something has to be done. Lot of good talking has done, and the people know that. Talking will do nothing because the government is already too corrupt.. so more drastic measures are going to have to be taken.
We all know that the officers who hurt the innocents will not get in trouble either. They might have some hearing or something, but in the long run, they'll get a slap on the wrist.
The point is not that they all are, it's that *enough* of them are for it to be a problem, and the remainder don't turn in or testify against the outright crooked ones.
You know the phrase, "a few bad apples"? Well the full thing is, "A few bad apples ruin the bunch". We can easily see what happens with a corrupt police force by watching what happens in the US. With no accountability you get brutality, racial profiling, corruption, and the like.
Just look at the outcome of the police inquiry of the original shooting, not only did the police lie about him shooting, they were inept enough for the bullet to actually be from a police officer's gun, so they shot their own people. It took a panel inquiry and the public outrage to get to the bottom of it. If the police force were on the up and up, not only would they not have murdered the guy to begin with, but the non-corrupt officers should have immediately testified that he was shot by a police officer, and that the bullet lodged in radio was from one of their own guns.
It doesn't help by returning the same kind of evil, there's no excuses, and most involved will not be feeling any consequences, hell, most (all probably) involved are not helping with cleaning up the shit left afterwards.
There's always corruption, even in Sweden, but it doesn't help by just declaring an all out hate towards authority (and firefighters, wtf?) it just makes everything much worse.
When you take away legitimate methods to air your grievances, all that's left is lashing out. Sorry you don't like it. Maybe the UK government shouldn't be pursuing austerity measures and conservative policies as hard as it can.
Where are you when the police are actually murdering people? or banks destroying the nation's economy with dubious financial instruments needing bailing out at taxpayer expense? or hedge funds playing with commodities until wheat futures are so expensive entire swathes of Africa starves? I mean, these are legitimate concerns worth getting internet upset over, yet it's when a few people torch a starbucks and knick some ipods that people get upset.
Their grievances are legit, whether they can properly form what they are is irrelevant, (especially considering part of the problem is lack of education support). Unemployment for black youth in the UK is FIFTY percent. White youth is twenty. That is fucked up, and it's no wonder there are plenty of people with nothing to lose.
You want to get upset at something, get upset at this travesty that is the current political climate destroying the lives of millions. Till I see twenty times the outrage at what the upper 1% are doing, this propaganda incited outrage at a few rioters is just treasonous siding with the man.
It's sad that the majority will let the government continue to screw them over. I guess we just don't have enough critical thinkers in our society anymore.
Critical thinking is almost looked down upon in society, it is getting fucking ridiculous. Put the pieces together and point out the things the government is doing wrong, with suggestions for improvement? BAM! You're now a terrorist for even mentioning something is wrong with the government.
Conform, consume, follow.... that's what they want of us.
So the ends justify the means (and a sweet iphone!)
People are getting politically involved at a daily basis.
Others become activists.
But it re-affirms my belief that the people are becoming the mindless masses they don't want the government to believe they are, start thinking critically, don't act on instinct.
What does it matter if he fired the gun or not. If I was policeman telling a person to drop what looks like a gun and the person refuses. I'm gonna be ready to put them down at the slightest sign that they are raising the gun.
On the other side, If I'm a person with what the police think is a gun. I drop it and get to my knees, and probably cry a bit.
But it re-affirms my belief that the people are becoming the mindless masses they don't want the government to believe they are, start thinking critically, don't act on instinct.
In many situations, if you fail to respond with instinct and try to think too much, you didn't act fast enough and either you died or somebody else did.
It is impossible to think critically in every single situation, where stakes and emotions run high.
I'm more talking about situations where everyone is on-edge though. I agree that the majority of the population is just fine without using critical thinking, and it is destroying our society.
These things don't just happen out of nowhere - it takes a lot of ignorance about the situation to draw that conclusion. Oh yes, there are criminal acts going on here - but the reason that this is happening is a vastly complicated issue of longstanding disenfranchisement.
People just get madder and madder and more fed up at how they are treated - there are even frequent ignored attempts at calling attention to the issues peacefully by the community. Then there is a flashpoint moment, such as Rodeny King or something similar (and the flashpoint is usually something involving a conflict with police in which someone is murdered or treated brutally or unfairly by police) which confirms everyone's fears that they experience and how they can't trust authority - and the anger just boils over as people descend into lawlessness.
Anyway it pains me when people don't understand how these things happen. That anger didn't come from nowhere. Their ignorance and willingness to dismiss the rioters as thugs as if they came out of nowhere demonstrates that even after the riots end, the same problems will exist and no one will do anything serious about it. (And so more riots happen later...)
There are people in that thread who scoff at the idea of the riot being a reaction to the way working class communities have been treated by this country. Why? Because that would require working class youths to have opinions, which is of course something beyond these feral creatures. "They're obviously too uneducated to have opinions about their situation. After all, we disenfranchised their education. We should know." ~The upper class. (of any country where riots like these happen)
This actually reminds me of how in Terry Jones's 'medieval lives' documentary series he pointed to the rioters during a phase in medieval london who broke into legal record offices and burned their contracts of indentured servitude and such. They also would deliberately target institutions which oppressed them - yet there is a longstanding stereotype that the peasant rabble are not politically savvy in historical Britain. I think that stereotype carries over even to these riots.
These riots are definitely politically motivated - the explosive anger that leads to lawlessness on this scale does not happen out of nowhere. It takes a LONG time and a LOT of disenfranchisement to build and build and build to come to something like this. People treating this as just thugs and such are revealing the longstanding ignorance and sweeping of the underclasses under the carpet that lead to these riots happening in the first place.
"2018: A group of around 100 young man have gathered on Church Street in Enfield, and say they will defend the streets of the north London suburb from rioters. The area is peaceful at the moment."
Would these young men happen to be the EDL spoiling for a fight with blacks?
I think it's just that I find it hard to see it any other way when you have to deal with people who steal and vandalise through your whole school-life who, in terms of financial situation, are equal or better off than myself. I can't imagine in what way the government is treating them badly but not me. Yes some areas of the country are deprived but it didn't stop the people in my area doing whatever the hell they wanted. So when I see the riots I see the people I've had to put up with in life, the only difference being there's a massive opportunity to do it without consequences.
I can't put it all down to people having had enough of the way they are treated, I am confident a good number of them are just people who like to do this stuff. I can't see how being a good person makes me upperclass.
Still stuff happening tonight, just looked out my window (living in West Ealing) and there's some hooded nutter walking around with a baseball bat. Police sirens going off a lot too, shit's definitely going down
Also went through the broadway today and saw charity shops smashed into, who would break into a charity shop? And some guy outside sainsburys playing a fiddle with people irish jig dancing to it.....well at least some people are happy
It's sad that the majority will let the government continue to screw them over. I guess we just don't have enough critical thinkers in our society anymore.
Critical thinking is almost looked down upon in society, it is getting fucking ridiculous. Put the pieces together and point out the things the government is doing wrong, with suggestions for improvement? BAM! You're now a terrorist for even mentioning something is wrong with the government.
Conform, consume, follow.... that's what they want of us.
In many situations, if you fail to respond with instinct and try to think too much, you didn't act fast enough and either you died or somebody else did.
It is impossible to think critically in every single situation, where stakes and emotions run high.
I'm more talking about situations where everyone is on-edge though. I agree that the majority of the population is just fine without using critical thinking, and it is destroying our society.
You are hurting my brain, you wholly individual and original, critical thinker you. You remind me of the first five seconds of this video.
or hedge funds playing with commodities until wheat futures are so expensive entire swathes of Africa starves?
i hope you realise that most of the problems in africa are down to their own corrupt governments who are actually among some of the wealthiest in the world. they just don't want to share it with their own people.
as for the government screwing us over and us letting it happen... well.. i'm sorry, i didn't realise that the majority of europe, and the US, were in debt... i'd completely forgotten for a second that we needed to pay off those debts in one form or another.
i wonder how the hell people think this was ever going to be "pretty", or even easy. cuts had to be made, otherwise we weren't going to claw back the hundreds of billions we (UK) owe. the previous government have slated the current one over and over about the cuts, and i agree... it's a shitty situation, but it's one that the previous government put us into in the first place.
so our current government are the "bad guys" for doing the difficult but right thing.
as for the riots. they're no longer riots. stop using that word to describe them. it's looting, plain and simple. there is no protest, there is no moral high or even low ground to be had here.
any political agenda went out of the window when people started looting and burning for the sake of it. even to the point of burning down peoples homes, people who are innocent.
more importantly though... for a protest which started out being against the police and the government... there's yet to be a single police or government building targeted. pretty fucking strange that, don't you think?
15 pigs about to kick the shit out of 1 person? Yeah never seen that before.
This thread = full of fuck.
Yea. they are obviously all going to kick the shit out of that guy. They are definitely not all running round the corner to confront a bunch of people that they have just charged. That would just be silly.
Come on, man. There is a world out of the cameras view.
Yea. they are obviously all going to kick the shit out of that guy. They are definitely not all running round the corner to confront a bunch of people that they have just charged. That would just be silly.
Come on, man. There is a world out of the cameras view.
But in that picture It looks like they are all looking at that one guy.
Having lived in London for about 10 years, I'm still wondering who did the most damage, the Taliban on the 7th of July '05 or these retards damaging their own country...
But in that picture It looks like they are all looking at that one guy.
Yea, but it's more likely that it's due to them noticing that something is going on.
It's natural to look anything that your brain deems as possible threat, so you can asses the danger level.
If you were running around a corner and noticed that some people were fighting, you would look, right?
All i'm saying is that we shouldn't take a single photo out of context.
Having lived in London for about 10 years, I'm still wondering who did the most damage, the Taliban on the 7th of July '05 or these retards damaging their own country...
But in that picture It looks like they are all looking at that one guy.
So what? They are hardly going to all beat the shit out of him. Worst comes to the worst, he gets a bad push from the female police officer, a good scare, and bracelets.
Replies
People can say the rioters are opportunistic but honestly if they where happy with their status in society then they probably wouldn't be smashing windows and stealing jeans... They would be out guarding their cars instead of setting fire to others.
If you're part of the "have not" crowd you have very little to lose by going out and smashing store fronts, but probably have a lot to gain...
If nothing comes of it then someone else who seems indifferent to the pain you feel every day gets to feel some of it. That underlying every day pain that is inflicted on the average and every day citizen, is what needs to be addressed by the world leaders, everywhere. If they where not so out of touch and separated by a giant wall of wealth and police protection they might hear the murmurings and head them off before things got out of hand.
Do I agree with the methods, no. But sometimes non-violent civil disobedience is the only way to make the "haves" pay any attention. If that doesn't work then you're driven to violence... Yes its your personal choice to use violence but there are times its the only choice you have left. It's sad that no one listens as the other choices evaporate... You can only push people so far.
And you think they have? LOL
The people turn out to Clean up Clapham, Starbucks and Recipease giving out free coffee and food to the cleaners. Kinda restores your faith in the Uk populace.
What do you mean, black people were set upon? Jesus if british 'white nationalists' or football hooligans get involved in this it'll get pretty damn ugly.
The girl was just picking random stuff of the top of her head and didn't even know which party was in government or what she was rioting for. It was all buzz words.
The factors may all be linked but i don't think she realises it :P
I think that these people are rioting because they had the chance too and nothing more. There is no higher goal other than to cause damage and loot.
I'm not saying its a race thing in London, but I hope they leave it at destruction of public property and the lynch mobs don't start rolling around. "Get the others" whoever the others are, is a level no one wants to see this go to.
I just hope that public officials who are normally deaf, don't look at the unrest as pure senseless anarchy. Some of it is, but as stated before the disfranchisement needs to be dealt with.
Personally I see this happening in the US again soon as the US comes to terms with its spending habits and the "haves" force most of the pain on the "have nots" as what seems to be happening in England.
The major break down to me seems to be coming from decades of cuts to the public education system (at least in the US). When you underfund public education to the point that public schools are not much more than day prisons then you have to wonder are people really being educated to a level they understand how to function in civil society properly?
How are people going to reform political problems that lead to these situations when they've only ever been taught short sightedness and barbarism? Maybe in England these types of issues don't exist and all of the rioters are well educated people with good jobs and are just out looking to spice things up and "have a little fun"...
Its no good explaining logistics to these people, "we want someone else to solve this and we want it done now!"
If they want to protect their community then sometimes they might have to defend it themselves. Or they could just cower in the closet whilst they burn their property burns around them.
Historically the justification for riots has, in many cases, been post hoc. The idea that "riots took place in history because people stood for something but today it's just violence" is something that people say every time this happens. Many, many people have been on the news and said "this is the political and economic reason for the riots".
It is true that some have said it more eloquently than others, but if peoples reason for rioting is that they feel trapped and helpless, a large part of which is the lack of education in the area and the lack of opportunities from education, then that's not exactly a surprise. Hell, dismissing people because they don't speak their ideas properly like what the upper classes do is a historical class shibboleth and only exists to keep the lower classes disenfranchised.
You want a comparison for these riots? Look at the Brixton riots of pretty much dead on 30 years ago. People said they had no political point or justification but the inquiry stated clearly that it was down to the issues I have mentioned above and have been mentioned by people on here and on the news many times - and in the latter case they have largely been shouted down by the BBC or similar who just want to paint the riots as the result of thugs being thugs.
Im dismissing the girls comments because its obvious that she was just picking words out of the air, not because she didnt put them across very well.
[ame]
This. I'm not saying what they are doing is alright, because it most certainly is not, but it's easy for me to understand this mentality.
We grew up poor as shit, but I was blessed with hardworking parents and opportunities. Take that away from me, and I could see a version of me wanting to burn this planet to ash.
When you don't have anything, not even hope, it's easy to give into anger, despair, thrill, etc, especially in a mob.
Still not the right thing to do, and I hope you folks are safe there.
i agree a lot with this article, Not all rioters are (intentionally) political, but the riot does take place within a political context.
Yeah, there it is again as Poop said. The BBC talking down to people. It was the same thing when the student protests and cut protests got out of hand. The BBC has a clear agenda.
Brilliant!
WITH AMAZING BARGAINS.
Nice strawman, yo.
The point is not that they all are, it's that *enough* of them are for it to be a problem, and the remainder don't turn in or testify against the outright crooked ones.
You know the phrase, "a few bad apples"? Well the full thing is, "A few bad apples ruin the bunch". We can easily see what happens with a corrupt police force by watching what happens in the US. With no accountability you get brutality, racial profiling, corruption, and the like.
Just look at the outcome of the police inquiry of the original shooting, not only did the police lie about him shooting, they were inept enough for the bullet to actually be from a police officer's gun, so they shot their own people. It took a panel inquiry and the public outrage to get to the bottom of it. If the police force were on the up and up, not only would they not have murdered the guy to begin with, but the non-corrupt officers should have immediately testified that he was shot by a police officer, and that the bullet lodged in radio was from one of their own guns.
...but it doesn't change the fact that nobody here witnessed what really happened. Split-second decisions where life and death are at stake... what would you do?
Fact of the matter is, you have no idea what you would do. You act purely on instinct in situations like that, to protect your life and that of your comrades. I'm talking about the 29 year old guy with the gun in this instance though.
That's why it is also hard to pass judgement on the rioters from the outside looking in. Human instinct dictates you to follow the crowd in most cases, and as a species' we rely on our instincts for every part of our lives. You can't just get rid of those primal urges, because at the end of the day we're still animals and when it comes down to it, language is the only real thing that separates us from wild animals.
We can think in terms of words and concepts we have developed based on the perspective of our species and society.
Animals think, process, and respond in terms of feelings, and that also is still a big part of who we are.
Could you really walk away when everybody around you is actually promoting such activities? At that point, your mind tells you that it is okay to join in because everybody else is doing it.
Fact of the matter is, none of us here know, for a fact, how we would handle any situation like that.
However, I do have a beef with the police who hurt innocents. When those who vow to protect you break that vow by hurting innocent people.... something has to be done. Lot of good talking has done, and the people know that. Talking will do nothing because the government is already too corrupt.. so more drastic measures are going to have to be taken.
We all know that the officers who hurt the innocents will not get in trouble either. They might have some hearing or something, but in the long run, they'll get a slap on the wrist.
It doesn't help by returning the same kind of evil, there's no excuses, and most involved will not be feeling any consequences, hell, most (all probably) involved are not helping with cleaning up the shit left afterwards.
There's always corruption, even in Sweden, but it doesn't help by just declaring an all out hate towards authority (and firefighters, wtf?) it just makes everything much worse.
If they're gonna hate anyone, hate the officers who did some stupid stuff.
Where are you when the police are actually murdering people? or banks destroying the nation's economy with dubious financial instruments needing bailing out at taxpayer expense? or hedge funds playing with commodities until wheat futures are so expensive entire swathes of Africa starves? I mean, these are legitimate concerns worth getting internet upset over, yet it's when a few people torch a starbucks and knick some ipods that people get upset.
Their grievances are legit, whether they can properly form what they are is irrelevant, (especially considering part of the problem is lack of education support). Unemployment for black youth in the UK is FIFTY percent. White youth is twenty. That is fucked up, and it's no wonder there are plenty of people with nothing to lose.
You want to get upset at something, get upset at this travesty that is the current political climate destroying the lives of millions. Till I see twenty times the outrage at what the upper 1% are doing, this propaganda incited outrage at a few rioters is just treasonous siding with the man.
It's sad that the majority will let the government continue to screw them over. I guess we just don't have enough critical thinkers in our society anymore.
Critical thinking is almost looked down upon in society, it is getting fucking ridiculous. Put the pieces together and point out the things the government is doing wrong, with suggestions for improvement? BAM! You're now a terrorist for even mentioning something is wrong with the government.
Conform, consume, follow.... that's what they want of us.
People are getting politically involved at a daily basis.
Others become activists.
But it re-affirms my belief that the people are becoming the mindless masses they don't want the government to believe they are, start thinking critically, don't act on instinct.
On the other side, If I'm a person with what the police think is a gun. I drop it and get to my knees, and probably cry a bit.
In many situations, if you fail to respond with instinct and try to think too much, you didn't act fast enough and either you died or somebody else did.
It is impossible to think critically in every single situation, where stakes and emotions run high.
I'm more talking about situations where everyone is on-edge though. I agree that the majority of the population is just fine without using critical thinking, and it is destroying our society.
People just get madder and madder and more fed up at how they are treated - there are even frequent ignored attempts at calling attention to the issues peacefully by the community. Then there is a flashpoint moment, such as Rodeny King or something similar (and the flashpoint is usually something involving a conflict with police in which someone is murdered or treated brutally or unfairly by police) which confirms everyone's fears that they experience and how they can't trust authority - and the anger just boils over as people descend into lawlessness.
Anyway it pains me when people don't understand how these things happen. That anger didn't come from nowhere. Their ignorance and willingness to dismiss the rioters as thugs as if they came out of nowhere demonstrates that even after the riots end, the same problems will exist and no one will do anything serious about it. (And so more riots happen later...)
There are people in that thread who scoff at the idea of the riot being a reaction to the way working class communities have been treated by this country. Why? Because that would require working class youths to have opinions, which is of course something beyond these feral creatures. "They're obviously too uneducated to have opinions about their situation. After all, we disenfranchised their education. We should know." ~The upper class. (of any country where riots like these happen)
This actually reminds me of how in Terry Jones's 'medieval lives' documentary series he pointed to the rioters during a phase in medieval london who broke into legal record offices and burned their contracts of indentured servitude and such. They also would deliberately target institutions which oppressed them - yet there is a longstanding stereotype that the peasant rabble are not politically savvy in historical Britain. I think that stereotype carries over even to these riots.
These riots are definitely politically motivated - the explosive anger that leads to lawlessness on this scale does not happen out of nowhere. It takes a LONG time and a LOT of disenfranchisement to build and build and build to come to something like this. People treating this as just thugs and such are revealing the longstanding ignorance and sweeping of the underclasses under the carpet that lead to these riots happening in the first place.
Would these young men happen to be the EDL spoiling for a fight with blacks?
http://twitter.com/#!/search/edl
I think it's just that I find it hard to see it any other way when you have to deal with people who steal and vandalise through your whole school-life who, in terms of financial situation, are equal or better off than myself. I can't imagine in what way the government is treating them badly but not me. Yes some areas of the country are deprived but it didn't stop the people in my area doing whatever the hell they wanted. So when I see the riots I see the people I've had to put up with in life, the only difference being there's a massive opportunity to do it without consequences.
I can't put it all down to people having had enough of the way they are treated, I am confident a good number of them are just people who like to do this stuff. I can't see how being a good person makes me upperclass.
Also went through the broadway today and saw charity shops smashed into, who would break into a charity shop? And some guy outside sainsburys playing a fiddle with people irish jig dancing to it.....well at least some people are happy
You are hurting my brain, you wholly individual and original, critical thinker you. You remind me of the first five seconds of this video.
[ame]
The only 'fault' of the 'government' and 'the man' these past few days is not packing rubber bullets.
i hope you realise that most of the problems in africa are down to their own corrupt governments who are actually among some of the wealthiest in the world. they just don't want to share it with their own people.
i wonder how the hell people think this was ever going to be "pretty", or even easy. cuts had to be made, otherwise we weren't going to claw back the hundreds of billions we (UK) owe. the previous government have slated the current one over and over about the cuts, and i agree... it's a shitty situation, but it's one that the previous government put us into in the first place.
so our current government are the "bad guys" for doing the difficult but right thing.
as for the riots. they're no longer riots. stop using that word to describe them. it's looting, plain and simple. there is no protest, there is no moral high or even low ground to be had here.
any political agenda went out of the window when people started looting and burning for the sake of it. even to the point of burning down peoples homes, people who are innocent.
more importantly though... for a protest which started out being against the police and the government... there's yet to be a single police or government building targeted. pretty fucking strange that, don't you think?
http://www.destructoid.com/paper-blames-recent-london-rioting-on-grand-theft-auto-208221.phtml
Now THATS what I'm talking about... more of this please! Whoop whoop
15 pigs about to kick the shit out of 1 person? Yeah never seen that before.
This thread = full of fuck.
Yea. they are obviously all going to kick the shit out of that guy. They are definitely not all running round the corner to confront a bunch of people that they have just charged. That would just be silly.
Come on, man. There is a world out of the cameras view.
But in that picture It looks like they are all looking at that one guy.
It's natural to look anything that your brain deems as possible threat, so you can asses the danger level.
If you were running around a corner and noticed that some people were fighting, you would look, right?
All i'm saying is that we shouldn't take a single photo out of context.
yea
So what? They are hardly going to all beat the shit out of him. Worst comes to the worst, he gets a bad push from the female police officer, a good scare, and bracelets.
And I can see at least two guys.
I could argue the same thing if I saw 15 wankers, surrounding a solo policeman.
Sorry, but arguing what is right/wrong in that image is as fact based as my arse is to the dark side of the moon.