A whole season just to set up one episode.. that said it was pretty awesome and they did the comic justice for the most part.
Hershel dying I think I called before it even aired, they can't kill Lori twice so who else was expendable, Something had to set it off (there was no way that tank wasn't destroying the prison)
one thing that annoyed me was the irrational behaviour of the governor and his camp.
why were they so easily convinced of everything he said and why would they follow him into a war? (especially when rick said that's not what they wanted)
also he tried that before with the woodbury posse and we remember how that turned out..
the other part of his character which didn't add up for me was the animosity between him and rick. basically they made the governor out to be a changed man and moved on (forgiving michonne etc) and only interested in survival for his camp but it seemed like it was more about revenge by the end of it.. Did he go there with the intention to just kill everyone or take the prison?
Also, I'm going to say the baby is still alive (pics or it didn't happen type shit)
A whole season just to set up one episode.. that said it was pretty awesome and they did the comic justice for the most part.
Welcome to the Walking Dead... every season, except the first, has been like that. I really hope they get away from that, because people seem to be losing interest in the show, during these long/boring dialog episodes.
I think the baby is gone... I hope so at least. Kirkman gave a 'you never know' response, when asked about it on the Talking Dead. I'm afraid they'll keep the baby around, just for the sake of using her as a set piece, to make noises at the most inconvenient moments. On the flip side, it would be taking it a bit to far, if they had shown a baby getting eaten. Comic Spoiler:
Given that the baby dies, with Lori, in the comics, I really would prefer they keep the baby dead. Otherwise, she'll become an annoying distraction.
Welcome to the Walking Dead... every season, except the first, has been like that. I really hope they get away from that, because people seem to be losing interest in the show, during these long/boring dialog episodes.
really? All I've heard is Walking Dead has continued grow in popularity every season. I don't really feel like this half season was spent setting up the governor confrontation, it actually felt rushed, they spent 2 episodes setting it up.
My thoughts:
I thought the baby was taken on the bus, but I could be wrong. I think Michonne wanted the governor to suffer thats why she didnt kill him. The governors little play thing looks like she is gonna be a bad arse in the next season.
Yeah these seasons are such a tease just for the ultimate build up. I would prefer action and suspense in every episode of the seasons there seems to be alot of "filler episodes instead". I can't believe they still didn't tell Tyrese they banished out Carol because she was the one that killed his loved one.
Dealing with the flu didn't feel like filler to me. It feels like they had to shoehorn the governor in to fix the mistake from last season. I did love the first governor episode. I know it's not a zombie movie but I prefer stories like The Road.
really? All I've heard is Walking Dead has continued grow in popularity every season. I don't really feel like this half season was spent setting up the governor confrontation, it actually felt rushed, they spent 2 episodes setting it up.
Yeah, I know the numbers don't show it at the moment. I'm referring to people I know, who are no longer making it a priority to watch it (the DVR, and watch when they get to it), and I see people talking about how bored they are, and they are close to no longer watching. None of them have stopped, but suspect that's not far away.
I'm still set to watch it until it gets utterly stupid, or cancelled, since I'm a fan of the comics, and I like seeing where they take the show.
Dealing with the flu didn't feel like filler to me. It feels like they had to shoehorn the governor in to fix the mistake from last season. I did love the first governor episode. I know it's not a zombie movie but I prefer stories like The Road.
That 2 episode mini-arc definitely felt a little odd, especially the timing of it directly after the Carol revelation. Although I also feel like if they only had one Governor-focused episode before the big attack it would've felt very rushed.
I think the main problem of the show, if there is one, is that they're creating these really cool environments and then spending way too long in them. They spent 24 episodes (give or take a bottle episode) in the prison and it probably should've been more like 8-10. Same with the farm, although Season 3+4 so far has been much better than Season 2 in general.
More time on the road/interacting with other small groups would be very cool and I hope that's where the second half of Season 4 ends up.
It does make sense from a plot perspective though. Why would I keep moving around through herds of walkers if I had a big ol' prison to hole up in. So I don't really mind how long they'd been staying - if anything I'd have been interested in how they worked out their day to day life (more depth than the occasional camera pan over planted fields).
the other part of his character which didn't add up for me was the animosity between him and rick. basically they made the governor out to be a changed man and moved on (forgiving michonne etc) and only interested in survival for his camp but it seemed like it was more about revenge by the end of it.. Did he go there with the intention to just kill everyone or take the prison?
Also, I'm going to say the baby is still alive (pics or it didn't happen type shit)
The gov had dueling personalities, most of the time the evil manipulative governor would use the "slightly less evil" governor like a walking meat muppet. There was only a handful of times that I think we saw the "slightly less evil" governor when he wasn't being controlled and used by the evil gov.
I don't think he forgave michonne, that was probably meat muppet BS to try and get Herschel to his side so he would help convince Rick not to shoot at his people. Doing in Michonne too soon would have pissed off Herschel, he probably had plans to get around to killing her but I don't think he actually forgave her.
Comic Spoiler:
In the comic the baby died when the governor attacked the prison. Lori was holding the baby when she was shot in the back. The comic isn't a great indicator of what they'll do in the show, but it doesn't look good.
If Judith survives, the show as a bit of a problem on their hands, they can get around it and it might be cool but having too many young kid actors on such an adult show has been something they wanted to limit and talked about back in the Sophia days.
They will have to start dealing with the innocence of a really young child being in a brutal world, which is territory they already tread with Karl, and its hard to get parents to sign their kids up for such an adult show.
Little kids grow and change really quickly and that causes all kinds of production problems, they also have child labor laws to deal with. BUT it could lead to some interesting stuff. Maybe they will reintroduce Judith's character a lot later in the show when she's out of the rapid growth stages.
Awwww man, now I wanna see the Gov doing a Smeagol/Golum scene in a pool of water
That would have been a killer reveal of Pete's underwater zombie-corpse...
I think how people watch the show has the biggest effect on how they feel about the locations. All I heard about season 2 was how boring it was because they never left the farm. Over a couple months I can see that being the case but I watched it all in one day and had no problem with it at all. If anything it just added a false sense of security to the story. Being on the road for an extended period is going to present the same problems. Oh no we have to walk a lot, oh we found a place that seems safe, ohshitohshitohshit it's not! Oh no we have to walk some more (actually the people annoyed by it may be reversed). I'm sure they'll come up with some awesome stuff on the show but I don't see them adding some of the bigger road points from the comic like
See, I disagree Scudz (partially), about what they'll take from the comic:
I think they'll do the cannibals, and the church (all part of the same period). I agree that the Carl part won't happen though, just like the left out the Michonne rape.
See, I disagree Scudz (partially), about what they'll take from the comic:
I think they'll do the cannibals, and the church (all part of the same period). I agree that the Carl part won't happen though, just like the left out the Michonne rape.
I really hope they do
the cannibal story
, that's one of my favs from the comic but yeah I think
Now that i'm caught up on the comics, I would say that Judith should be dead, I mean the last time we see her is when psycho girl says "we should have guns too."
How responsible could they have been?
And yea those who have survived in this world should be running out of food any day now...
It feels like it's been too long, but The Walking Dead returns tonight for the second half of its 4th season!
Pop some popcorn, kick back, & let some good ol' zombie smashin fill up your Sunday night.. go on.. you deserve it
Btw, am I the only one annoyed at the almost insistent use of makeup and FX? Do we really need to see every single knife, axe and sword to the head? It kind of makes it look like b-grade material.
Do we really need to see every single knife, axe and sword to the head?
Yes. Yes we do.
_______________
The things I liked about this episode was
1- michonne deciding that she prefers the company of humans. In previous episodes it seemed as if she wasn't tied down to the group in any meaningful way.That character shift that happened when the zombies were surrounding her in the forrest... from loner to rejoining the pack in some capacity was a good turning point for her character in this episode.
2- & the little shit, getting his ass handed to him by some zombies was satisfying to me.-Realizing that he couldn't do this all on his own and that he would rather die.
We've all been waiting for a progression in his attitude&personality.
I don't know what I expected but last night seemed really boring. So, the writers just got together and said let's split up everyone from their friend. Tyrese=split from Sasha, Carl/Rick=split from lilkickass, Carol=split from Daryl, Beth=split from Maggie, Maggie=split from Glen, Tara=split from sister.. seems like they just split up the cliques for pushing the story along.. which I find kinda lame..
Although I did think crazygirl was gonna smother the baby..
Great episode, I was pretty impressed that they could fit so many side stories and action into one episode and still have room for the slower, quiet moments.
I'm kinda bummed they wimped out on Judith but I was not expecting her when Tyrese turned around, so that was a cool reveal. I called it on Lizzie! We'll see how close my predictions are by the end of this season.
As far as getting cheesier? I don't see it, first season had some stinky limburger mega cheesy moments. It's gotten less cheesy as it matured.
I think the reason that you all are seeing the acting weaker is because the minor characters are getting more screen time.
I think giving Judith to the walkers would have been ok, but it was pretty clear that the writers weren't going to do that....the babysitter buildup indicated that.
However Carol's return was just "allakhazam Here I am!"
I really hate that they didn't end things with Judith. They had a perfect moment, to have her gone
as she was in the comics
. Now just just becomes what I feared, an annoying set piece, to conveniently scream, and attract zombies, purely to create unnecessary moments.
And yeah, I do find it slightly annoying that they split everyone the way they did. I think Glenn and Maggie would have been enough (and Rick/Carl on their own). I did find it interesting, when Carol ends up being the one to find Tyrese, and the fear on her face, as Tyrese approaches her, to give her a hug. Clearly she expected Tyrese to know what she had done.
Normally I'm quite easily entertained and forgiving with this show but that episode really kinda sucked. Both the Lizzie and Judith reveal's were just lazy and obvious. Abraham and co showing up was fine and I liked the comic-pose recreation but the dialogue was really poorly delivered. And I've no idea why they bothered suggesting Glenn might have been on the bus when all the ads/trailers have shown him alive at the prison after it left. I get that Maggie wouldn't know but there's zero audience tension that way. I'm also more than a little confused at the walker's being distracted by fire when there's food in their face.
See that I could see as being Glenn thinking a bunch of burning walker's surrounding him wouldn't be a good thing. But since he's suddenly an NFL linebacker he should have been able to just go back out the way he came and dropped the molotov behind him to slow down pursuit.
You don't think they (The walking dead...)make enough money to have some zombies light on fire? I find that hard to believe.
If you watch Talking Dead they mentioned how Michonne killed more zombies than budgeted/scheduled but having the director of that scene also filling the role of producer and FX supervisor helped out.
If you watch Talking Dead they mentioned how Michonne killed more zombies than budgeted/scheduled but having the director of that scene also filling the role of producer and FX supervisor helped out.
Meh I don't watch it, well that explains that then! hah.
Walking dead is at it's best when it uses a smaller number of characters to bring out bigger emotions, and uses the background and setting to tell the story of the apocalypse. I loved the country club setting, the way it told the tale of its survivors without either of the characters having to speak or talk about it.
AMC's continual problem seems to be it's audience. It's a tough sell.
People who watch for the zombies are more satisfied by Michael bay explosions and gun play, hear the term zombie and think they are in for a slasher action film, and tend to announce how bored they were after the episodes which focus on characters.
Personally I love the character episodes, I wouldn't give a shit about the story otherwise.
I think its become a 'trend' to kiss Breaking Bad's ass and hate on The Walking dead, on the internet.
No it's more like Breaking Bad set a high bar for quality TV and The Walking Dead doesn't meet that same bar... Not saying the Walking Dead is bad, but after seeing Breaking Bad, peoples standards change a bit.
Personally I love the character episodes, I wouldn't give a shit about the story otherwise.
Totally agree! A lot of people say they hate S2 because of this, but I still find it to be one my favorite seasons because of all the character buildup.
Like pretty much everyone, I loved breaking bad, but I'm not sure that it deserves to be the stick that every other show gets measured by. It was extremely good, but not better than every other show to air, and certainly not the first to do what it did.
If any show gets to be a measuring stick, my vote would be sopranos. It ushered in the era of television that breaking bad was able to thrive in, and, personally I would argue , did it better than breaking bad, if not writing wise then definitely acting wise. Not to take anything away from Bryan cranstons Walter white, but it was no tony soprano performance.
Anyways, a bit off topic, I'm just not fond of the BB vs everything else trend. Breaking bad is so memorable not becuase it's the best of the best, but because it's the most recent of the best.
Breaking Bad was good because it 'almost' didn't have a final season and went out with us wanting more and while they were on top.
I don't mind character episodes as long as they move the narrative along and aren't filler. LOST was a great show but went a few seasons long, and ended up the writers trying to outsmart the audience and just tacked on a stupid ending.
The writers on Walking Dead it seems with splitting up the couples/pairings from the prison feel forced and heavy handed. (excerpt from writing room)Bob: You know what would be fun if we split up Tyrese with the crazy girl, and Carol and he will find out one of them killed his girlfriend, equals instant conflict and PROFIT!)
Same for the rest of the pairings, it seems like they did the split just so they can have conflict/resolution to fill out some space. I want Walking dead, to have a start, middle and end.
The only part of TWD that i'm currently interested in is the one with any sort of plot -Glen's story line and his new found friends.
They actually have a reason for moving forward. To get the scientist to where he needs to be. That's a reason for us viewers to care about their characters and look forward to seeing the challenges on their journey. They actually have a real goal and it doesn't seem like any of the other character storylines have this.
Just to survive isn't going to hold many viewers' attention for long.
Which is evident by the comments in this thread.
Replies
Hershel dying I think I called before it even aired, they can't kill Lori twice so who else was expendable, Something had to set it off (there was no way that tank wasn't destroying the prison)
one thing that annoyed me was the irrational behaviour of the governor and his camp.
why were they so easily convinced of everything he said and why would they follow him into a war? (especially when rick said that's not what they wanted)
also he tried that before with the woodbury posse and we remember how that turned out..
the other part of his character which didn't add up for me was the animosity between him and rick. basically they made the governor out to be a changed man and moved on (forgiving michonne etc) and only interested in survival for his camp but it seemed like it was more about revenge by the end of it.. Did he go there with the intention to just kill everyone or take the prison?
Also, I'm going to say the baby is still alive (pics or it didn't happen type shit)
I think the baby is gone... I hope so at least. Kirkman gave a 'you never know' response, when asked about it on the Talking Dead. I'm afraid they'll keep the baby around, just for the sake of using her as a set piece, to make noises at the most inconvenient moments. On the flip side, it would be taking it a bit to far, if they had shown a baby getting eaten. Comic Spoiler:
really? All I've heard is Walking Dead has continued grow in popularity every season. I don't really feel like this half season was spent setting up the governor confrontation, it actually felt rushed, they spent 2 episodes setting it up.
I thought the baby was taken on the bus, but I could be wrong. I think Michonne wanted the governor to suffer thats why she didnt kill him. The governors little play thing looks like she is gonna be a bad arse in the next season.
Yeah these seasons are such a tease just for the ultimate build up. I would prefer action and suspense in every episode of the seasons there seems to be alot of "filler episodes instead". I can't believe they still didn't tell Tyrese they banished out Carol because she was the one that killed his loved one.
Yeah, I know the numbers don't show it at the moment. I'm referring to people I know, who are no longer making it a priority to watch it (the DVR, and watch when they get to it), and I see people talking about how bored they are, and they are close to no longer watching. None of them have stopped, but suspect that's not far away.
I'm still set to watch it until it gets utterly stupid, or cancelled, since I'm a fan of the comics, and I like seeing where they take the show.
That 2 episode mini-arc definitely felt a little odd, especially the timing of it directly after the Carol revelation. Although I also feel like if they only had one Governor-focused episode before the big attack it would've felt very rushed.
I think the main problem of the show, if there is one, is that they're creating these really cool environments and then spending way too long in them. They spent 24 episodes (give or take a bottle episode) in the prison and it probably should've been more like 8-10. Same with the farm, although Season 3+4 so far has been much better than Season 2 in general.
More time on the road/interacting with other small groups would be very cool and I hope that's where the second half of Season 4 ends up.
I don't think he forgave michonne, that was probably meat muppet BS to try and get Herschel to his side so he would help convince Rick not to shoot at his people. Doing in Michonne too soon would have pissed off Herschel, he probably had plans to get around to killing her but I don't think he actually forgave her.
Comic Spoiler:
If Judith survives, the show as a bit of a problem on their hands, they can get around it and it might be cool but having too many young kid actors on such an adult show has been something they wanted to limit and talked about back in the Sophia days.
They will have to start dealing with the innocence of a really young child being in a brutal world, which is territory they already tread with Karl, and its hard to get parents to sign their kids up for such an adult show.
Little kids grow and change really quickly and that causes all kinds of production problems, they also have child labor laws to deal with. BUT it could lead to some interesting stuff. Maybe they will reintroduce Judith's character a lot later in the show when she's out of the rapid growth stages.
That would have been a killer reveal of Pete's underwater zombie-corpse...
I think how people watch the show has the biggest effect on how they feel about the locations. All I heard about season 2 was how boring it was because they never left the farm. Over a couple months I can see that being the case but I watched it all in one day and had no problem with it at all. If anything it just added a false sense of security to the story. Being on the road for an extended period is going to present the same problems. Oh no we have to walk a lot, oh we found a place that seems safe, ohshitohshitohshit it's not! Oh no we have to walk some more (actually the people annoyed by it may be reversed). I'm sure they'll come up with some awesome stuff on the show but I don't see them adding some of the bigger road points from the comic like
*Hokay, I guess I'm just clueless under this rock I live under.
...umm... no? He hasn't been in the show ever. He's known for the Fast and Furious movies.
How responsible could they have been?
And yea those who have survived in this world should be running out of food any day now...
Pop some popcorn, kick back, & let some good ol' zombie smashin fill up your Sunday night.. go on.. you deserve it
But kids are little shitheads, it makes sense.
Btw, am I the only one annoyed at the almost insistent use of makeup and FX? Do we really need to see every single knife, axe and sword to the head? It kind of makes it look like b-grade material.
Yes. Yes we do.
_______________
The things I liked about this episode was
1- michonne deciding that she prefers the company of humans. In previous episodes it seemed as if she wasn't tied down to the group in any meaningful way.That character shift that happened when the zombies were surrounding her in the forrest... from loner to rejoining the pack in some capacity was a good turning point for her character in this episode.
2- & the little shit, getting his ass handed to him by some zombies was satisfying to me.-Realizing that he couldn't do this all on his own and that he would rather die.
We've all been waiting for a progression in his attitude&personality.
Although I did think crazygirl was gonna smother the baby..
Also I agree with you Johnny, some of the acting has gotten a bit worse (notably the minor characters).
I'm kinda bummed they wimped out on Judith but I was not expecting her when Tyrese turned around, so that was a cool reveal. I called it on Lizzie! We'll see how close my predictions are by the end of this season.
As far as getting cheesier? I don't see it, first season had some stinky limburger mega cheesy moments. It's gotten less cheesy as it matured.
I think giving Judith to the walkers would have been ok, but it was pretty clear that the writers weren't going to do that....the babysitter buildup indicated that.
However Carol's return was just "allakhazam Here I am!"
And yeah, I do find it slightly annoying that they split everyone the way they did. I think Glenn and Maggie would have been enough (and Rick/Carl on their own). I did find it interesting, when Carol ends up being the one to find Tyrese, and the fear on her face, as Tyrese approaches her, to give her a hug. Clearly she expected Tyrese to know what she had done.
budget?
Are they really on that strict of a budget?
Isn't everybody?
If you watch Talking Dead they mentioned how Michonne killed more zombies than budgeted/scheduled but having the director of that scene also filling the role of producer and FX supervisor helped out.
Meh I don't watch it, well that explains that then! hah.
AMC's continual problem seems to be it's audience. It's a tough sell.
People who watch for the zombies are more satisfied by Michael bay explosions and gun play, hear the term zombie and think they are in for a slasher action film, and tend to announce how bored they were after the episodes which focus on characters.
Personally I love the character episodes, I wouldn't give a shit about the story otherwise.
Totally agree! A lot of people say they hate S2 because of this, but I still find it to be one my favorite seasons because of all the character buildup.
If any show gets to be a measuring stick, my vote would be sopranos. It ushered in the era of television that breaking bad was able to thrive in, and, personally I would argue , did it better than breaking bad, if not writing wise then definitely acting wise. Not to take anything away from Bryan cranstons Walter white, but it was no tony soprano performance.
Anyways, a bit off topic, I'm just not fond of the BB vs everything else trend. Breaking bad is so memorable not becuase it's the best of the best, but because it's the most recent of the best.
I don't mind character episodes as long as they move the narrative along and aren't filler. LOST was a great show but went a few seasons long, and ended up the writers trying to outsmart the audience and just tacked on a stupid ending.
The writers on Walking Dead it seems with splitting up the couples/pairings from the prison feel forced and heavy handed. (excerpt from writing room)Bob: You know what would be fun if we split up Tyrese with the crazy girl, and Carol and he will find out one of them killed his girlfriend, equals instant conflict and PROFIT!)
Same for the rest of the pairings, it seems like they did the split just so they can have conflict/resolution to fill out some space. I want Walking dead, to have a start, middle and end.
Nice article on getting Shamalayned http://observationdeck.io9.com/true-detective-wont-have-a-huge-shyamalan-twist-and-he-1535047669
My other favorite show.. True Detectives. 8 episodes, that's it.
They actually have a reason for moving forward. To get the scientist to where he needs to be. That's a reason for us viewers to care about their characters and look forward to seeing the challenges on their journey. They actually have a real goal and it doesn't seem like any of the other character storylines have this.
Just to survive isn't going to hold many viewers' attention for long.
Which is evident by the comments in this thread.