I just finished the game and that was the best story I've experienced in any movie book or game. It was so amazing. Definitely get it if you haven't already.
Say what you want, this game is a fing masterpiece! Narration, Art direction, Sound Design everything just fits well. Im not going to spoil the end but HELL YEA!! The only thing that's a bit tricky is the mouse sensitivity, but yeah it's the UE so we know how to deal with it.
A game that deserves the sentence "Shut up and take all my money!" Good job everyone, make sure to drop us an Art-Dump if possible!
Finished the game yesterday, still thinking about it. I thought the ending was awesome straight up until the very end where I kinda went, oh... fuck that... but I had missed one scene that made it rocket to the top again.
Probably one of the few games that have moved me in the last few years and is truly well put together. Now I must have DLC's so get cracking people!
Also. I can't sing praise enough about the "odd two people" that pop up every now and again. Best characters and dialouge in ages and I want more. Loved every second of them.
PS: Love the squished scaled down pillar in the shop in the beginning. It's an art bug but it's kinda funny.
What a fantastic game, I had this feeling all the way through the game that
Rapture was actually Columbia after it fell from the skies then sunk to the bottom of the ocean... probably a little to far fetched :P Its fantastic to see that the universes are connected and makes me even more excited for all the worlds we are yet to explore!
I finished it a bit over 10 hours. It's probably the best game of this year and the past three or five years in terms of narration and art direction for me.
Finished it in around 12 hours, Loved it from the beginning till the end in every aspect Also replayed some of my favorite parts already, great that you can select chapters after you've finished it.
Haven't finished it yet, but some of the small moments that crop up are just freaking amazing.
the guitar scene in the shantytown bar where Elizabeth mentions she never learned to play, but then if you pick up the guitar Booker will play for a bit while she sings and gives an orange to the little boy hiding under the stairs.
just after you Finkton and return to (upper?) Columbia where the Vox are in full revolution, there was a spot near the gondola with some bodies on the ground. I was taking my time looking for stuffs and Elizabeth was commenting on weather this dead guy even wanted to be there, I looked over and she was folding his arms on his chest and placed her rose on him. I'm sure that wouldn't have happened if I had just kept moving.
Both those moments just made me stop and stare in wonder.
You guys have really created something else here:)
I wonder how they would create another political dystopia, when they've already worked both sides of that spectrum.
Perhaps the super villian or enviromentalism route? Ship all the good people to the moon and prepare to unleash something on earth to wipe out everyone for good and restart the world and be it's protector from afar?
I finished it two days ago, spent around 18 hours trying to look for every single secret and clue and I still don't know if I love or hate this game.
Up until the last level, I was positive this would be one of my favourite games. But then the ending happens and I'm not sure what to think of it.
I understand how it works on a technical level and it is nicely foreshadowed throughout the story, but I think I might be in deep disagreement about whether this resolution was necessary and whether it actually suits the theme of the game.
I still don't know if I should treat the ending as symbolic, or factual. The rest of the game is grounded in sci-fi, but the ending is somewhat postmodern and fantastical and does not seem to obey the rules of the rest of the game, nor its overall mood.
Overall, I feel slightly disappointed. Not because of what the game is, but because of what it could have been. When you start truly question it's consistency it begins to fall apart a little bit and tries to tackle way too many themes at once. In this regard, I feel that Bioshock 1 had the better plot. Where BI succeeds is the character development. I wish I could have had both.
Shit, I cant remember the last time I was so conflicted over a game. Perhaps this is statement of its quality. :poly142:
edit:
Spoilered that shit out. I tried to be ambiguous but my comment might still reveal a bit too much.
I like the game so far but I feel like the combat got slighted. I'm at the finkton docks, I think its called, and I just killed an officer in a private room-- and all of a sudden the whole yard outside is alerted to my presence. It's annoying because the whole 'wave' if you will is set off once you fire upon one guy, and because of that I find myself just finding a good place to hide and picking them off one by one until it's over.
The game seems too easy for me, I'm playing on hard and practically breezing through it. You want to feel challenged even in a story driven game, and so far it feels like the game is playing me more than I'm playing it.
I like the game so far but I feel like the combat got slighted. I'm at the finkton docks, I think its called, and I just killed an officer in a private room-- and all of a sudden the whole yard outside is alerted to my presence. It's annoying because the whole 'wave' if you will is set off once you fire upon one guy, and because of that I find myself just finding a good place to hide and picking them off one by one until it's over.
The game seems too easy for me, I'm playing on hard and practically breezing through it. You want to feel challenged even in a story driven game, and so far it feels like the game is playing me more than I'm playing it.
I can agree with that. I did the same thing as you with that guard in a private room, only I possessed him...and for some reason that sneaky act caused everyone in the area to attack. They could have done a far better job at how combat flags are triggered.
Aside from the handymen, which I found extremely tough to kill (they are too fast for their size, slowing them down a bit would have helped create more tactics in taking them down), the rest was pretty easy. I found that I really only needed the carbine and shotgun for the entire game, which is kind of boring since you get those early on. The vigors (when combing them) are good too, though devil's kiss kills most foes easily when upgraded.
Again the only huge complaint I have is that most of the NPCs have the same face, clothing depending on where you are and the art assets range from great to god awful with too much mirrored texture patterns popping up. You would think a game in 2013 could handle a bit more mesh and texture complexity.
One other peeve so far is that the song bird doesnt play as much of a role as one would expect. Hes pretty much non existent for a large part of the game...which is odd since the game version I bought came with a giant statue of it.
Over all great game. Worth every penny and hour spent. Love that art direction.
@Gav: W/e you worked on man, it's been a while since I felt like I was inhabited a live in world. Barely any words to describe how freaking hard it must have been for everyone to perfect this.
Wow, it's a game changer in my mind, the narrative was unbelievable and massive hats off to the vfx and lighting peeps. Elements of the ending still confuses me slightly but what a ride!!!
Loved it. Irrational I want to buy you all drinks and give you a big sweaty bearhug, goddamn you've outdone yourself compared to Bioshock 1 and set a new standard for narrative and pacing in an FPS, outstanding work you guys!
Fantastic game. There is really nothing else I can say about this: wow.
Every person that worked on this did a fantastic job, on both the programming and art side - I never once saw a bug, and every event went off fine. To complement the perfect internal mechanics, the art was amazing, the characters felt alive and the environments were simply stunning.
This is truly one of the most enjoyable games I have ever played, and personally I put it right up there with the best of them.
Just wrapped up my 1999 no dollar bill purchases play... All I can say is FUCK YOU PROTECTIVE END MISSION. FUCK YOU.
But its amazing how this game was just as good, if not BETTER the second time, simply because now you caught onto all those small tiny hints that were given. Its actually quite a thing to see how it all comes together. Oddly, I found the Ghost battles a lot easier this time, which... Puzzled me...
Finally finished it, and to be quite frank... I am not sure I like it. First the game starts you off with the "illusion of choice" but then really just rips it away from you the rest of the "ride". You are left being an angry violent guy in a narrative that becomes complex for the sake of being complex, yet gives no real conclusion or answer to the games premise other than "its more complex" (a non spoiler version). It felt intellectually inconsistent and a bit cheap in how it tried to wrap up its unsatisfying explanation. The last 75% of the game felt more like a chore to uncover some explanation, yet leaves you (or in this case, me) unfulfilled. Ultimately its intellectually underdeveloped towards the latter half.
I dont want to spoil anything so no details and critiques can be given, but props are necessary for that art direction. If they make a sequel, prequel or anything tied to bioshock infinite, I wont be buying it. In fact, I really dont even want to look at the song bird statue anymore because the character served no real purpose other than some contrived "run from this" entity. Still dont even know what the hell it is.
Finally finished it, and to be quite frank... I am not sure I like it. First the game starts you off with the "illusion of choice" but then really just rips it away from you the rest of the "ride". You are left being an angry violent guy in a narrative that becomes complex for the sake of being complex, yet gives no real conclusion or answer to the games premise other than "its more complex" (a non spoiler version). It felt intellectually inconsistent and a bit cheap in how it tried to wrap up its unsatisfying explanation. The last 75% of the game felt more like a chore to uncover some explanation, yet leaves you (or in this case, me) unfulfilled. Ultimately its intellectually underdeveloped towards the latter half.
I dont want to spoil anything so no details and critiques can be given, but props are necessary for that art direction. If they make a sequel, prequel or anything tied to bioshock infinite, I wont be buying it. In fact, I really dont even want to look at the song bird statue anymore because the character served no real purpose other than some contrived "run from this" entity. Still dont even know what the hell it is.
Sorry man but I don't think you understood this game. It was not about the choice. Just like in previous Bioshocks. This games are not about choice. It could only destroy the story and narrative. You want choice play GTA.
You sometimes don't need to know everything. Story is wrapped up pretty well. Yeah you can find some logical flaws. But you don't need to get every answer from the game. Use your brain. It touches heavy stuff and you want anwser like 'A is A and it's good. B is bad for you kids'.
You can always use spoiler tag if you want to throw some specific stuff. Maybe you have some valid points which I can't see.
Sorry Dataday, you clearly didn't understand the ending - it's very clever. It's one of the best devices I've seen in a game to date. It's also tragic.
This is just scratching the surface, but: part of it is the difference between chance and choice, and part of it is that no matter what choice you make, the outcome is still the same. This is why you see the Lutences with the coin flip, the raffle baseballs etc - because this is chance, it's all predetermined and the outcome is always the same. Choice is what creates the different realities - every decision creates a universe for each of the possible outcomes. Sometimes there's only one outcome regardless of the decision.
Comstock is Booker. When Booker refused the baptism, he went on to marry and have a baby (Anna) - but when Booker took the baptism, he became Comstock and founded Columbia with the Lutences. Comstock becomes infertile, so the only way to preserve his lineage was to break down the barrier between realities and steal or otherwise take Anna, who later becomes Elizabeth. Booker will then always try to take Elizabeth back (in fact you are the 122nd in an endless cycle). The only way to break the cycle was to stop Comstock ever 'being born' - by drowning at the point of baptism. Part of the tragedy is that there is no possible scenario that sees both Elizabeth and Booker together; Comstock will always take her.
There's a lot more to it than that. A lot. I can go into detail if you really want me to.
As an aside, Booker is also Andrew Ryan. There's always a man, a lighthouse and a city. There's also always a paradox. This is why Infinite is called Infinite.
I got the impression that by killing off Comstock at the baptism, you've consolidated those universes to a point where you get to keep Anna. The scene after the credits seems to imply that without Comstock to send for her, she is never taken away from you. Also, I love the Andrew Ryan bit, especially knowing the bathysphere in rapture can only be operated by someone with genetic ties to Ryan. Most people may have forgotten about that.
without Comstock to send for her, she is never taken away from you.
She never becomes Elizabeth, who now never existed. She instead grows up to be an entirely different person with a different name. That's the real tragedy; whilst Booker gets Anna, Elizabeth doesn't get to keep Booker - by killing him, she never even existed. That's the paradox.
I worked a lot of it out on paper after finishing the game - there is so much more to it than just what I mentioned I'll go into more detail when I get back from work for the benefit of those who are interested.
No, I understood what they were "trying to" quite clearly. I think it fell flat on its face though, trying to be "complex" for the sake of being complex.
Its like saying there are an infinite possibilities...so everything you did previous to that point was moot.
Thats a good message to tell to the gamer, right?
And then theres Slate. he recognizes you, knows you are as booker, even though hes fighting against Comstock and comstock exists in the same plane as an old man. If so Slate wouldnt see you as Booker, or maybe he would as comstock, yet he does which creates a major plot hole. Then you have Booker being a vox martyr in another dimension, yet comstock is still alive. So if then by saying anything goes and everything can have any possibility, you are saying there is no firm basis for your characters existence to begin with. Thats a good way to create alienation as opposed to immersion.
The entire thing was weak, intellectually cheap and attempted to be complex for the sake of complexity. Sure its cool that a few loose ends come together to make a full circle (such as the light house and those who take you here), but that doesnt fix the giant holes in the premise entirely. For creating such a limitless set of possibilities, its sure odd when the narrative then becomes limited in the baptism or not point. So already it does its premise disservice.
In my opinion it just ends up being a mess that conflicts upon its very premise, one that counters it self in a cheap fashion and ends with "ahah! arnt we clever". My answer to that is "no, not clever, more annoying and disappointing than anything else."
Anyways, it was a let down on an intellectual front in my opinion. The purpose of song bird, despite all the marketing hype surrounding him is just pointless.
As for choice, is its odd to give the player the illusion of choice initially but then take it away. Usually choice is used to create some sort of emotional response, which then increases the state of immersion by having the player care about the outcome of their choice. Its nice when you can allow it to allow the player to relate to the character they play (from their first person perspective), but jarring when it turns out to not reflect the player in any way after that.
Anyways this is just my opinion and I get "it", just disagree on the claim thats actually a good ending and story.
This is something I had posted on Reddit a few days ago, so I'm going to just copy it over here. Some of this may be repeated info as it is from a few different comments I made.
So, this is some quick info Comstock's history that I've understood from the game.
* Comstock was pretty busy creating Columbia so he never had Anna. After creating Columbia, Comstock was present for a great number of experiments with the rift machine. Unfortunately heavy exposure caused him to go sterile and when he wanted to produce an heir, he could not. Exposure to the machine also caused his cells to start falling apart which gives him cancer as well as makes him appear much older than he actually is. Anyways, because of the machine, he sees an alternate reality where he has produced an heir, so he sends the Luteces to procure his "flesh and blood child" from a different version of himself.
* Later on he has them killed (which fails as it just pushed them into time and space) because they knew the truth about Elizabeth. He also kills his wife because she threatened to go public with the fact that Elizabeth was not her child. (sadly in another thread someone brought up that it could have been her mother as she would never have died in childbirth, but because she didn't know about the rifts or her origin, she refused to accept the baby.)
* From what I can tell, Booker and Comstock are the same age, it's just that Comstocks body has started to fall apart from heavy exposure to the machine.
* Slate doesn't recognize Comstock because of his body falling apart. At this point he looks nothing like Booker and since he refuses to talk about anything that happened before being baptized no one knows his past. Slates justification is furthered when Booker shows up, because how could the same person be in two places at once? He obviously wouldn't know that Booker is from a different dimension.
* The time from when Anna is taken to when Booker travels to their universe is around 19-20 years.
I'll admit I was in Songbird as well though. I really wish it did a little bit more than beat the hell out of you then suddenly help you.
Slate. he recognizes you, knows you are as booker, even though hes fighting against Comstock and comstock exists in the same plane as an old man. If so Slate wouldnt see you as Booker, or maybe he would as comstock, yet he does which creates a major plot hole.
Slate doesn't know that Comstock is Booker. Comstock has been aged dramatically by his abuse of Lutece's inventions.
For creating such a limitless set of possibilities, its sure odd when the narrative then becomes limited in the baptism or not point.
There are an infinite number of Bookers and an infinite number of Comstocks. This means there are an infinite number of Comstocks who steal an infinite number of Anna's and an infinite number of Bookers who try to take Anna back. There are an infinite number of Booker / Comstocks that aren't even recogniseable as either (Andrew Ryan), and an infinite number of Anna's - and infinite number of which become Elizabeth and an infinite number who do not.
In the case of Infinite (and only in Infinite), the narrative ends with ensuring that Comstock can never exist. This is done by letting Booker make the choice to become baptised so that when Elizabeth kills Booker during the baptism, there is no longer any possibility that Booker can become Comstock - because all versions of Booker now die at this point. This isn't odd, it's the entire point of the story. There are still infinite other versions of Booker out there, but they're not relevant which is why Elizabeth doesn't show you (except Rapture). The point is is that the Booker/Comstock infinite loop is broken at that point and most importantly can only be broken at that point in time because that is where the choice is made - if Booker had survived the baptism, then there'd once again be an infinite number of Comstocks to steal Elizabeth from an infinite number of Bookers. It has to be at that one moment in time and cannot be anywhere else.
Frankly, I have to agree with Dataday. While I really enjoyed the game, I think the ending was over complicated. The more I think about it, the more it feels like they tried to outdo the twist of original Bioshock, but didn't get quite there.
But it's not just the ending that doesn't seem to work for me. The ending could have worked, but it doesn't really seem to fit the rest of the game and the story itself feels oddly fragmented. The ending proposes that the whole game was merely Booker's personal journey, but this idea is not properly reinforced throughout the game. There are too many themes and plot points that don't really lead anywhere.
The whole topic of racism and xenophobia is forgotten pretty quickly and Booker's racism is only hinted at in the Hall of Heroes.
Vox Populi ends up being a minor distraction and doesn't offer much commentary beyond "victims can become oppressors"; there was a great opportunity to explore Booker's character further, but the investigation into "Booker the martyr" ends abruptly with a few Voxaphones.
Then there is Booker himself, whose actions during the ending seem very out of place. Throughout the game, he frequently remarks how he does not believe in washing away your sins, how you have to deal with you crimes and face the consequences. In fact, he refuses the baptism for the very reason.
Yet, moments later he chooses to do the exact opposite. By choosing to "kill" Comstock, he negates the consequences not only of Comstock's crimes, but also of selling Anna, the things he does while working for Pinkertons and all the genocide he commits in Columbia.
But what saddens me the most is that it renders the whole story meaningless. Everything that happened in the game, might as well have not existed, as the game seems to frequently point out that linear time does not exist in its universe and all events happen at once (reinforced by Luteces and the fact that it is possible to jump both in space and in time). Then again, this is still confusing to me, as the game bends the rules for its own purpose when it allows Elizabeth to merge all timelines into one (or at the very least, all timelines where Booker would have accepted that baptism).
Now lastly, I cannot shake off the feeling that I was playing several different games at once. There are points in the game that made me feel like Irrational had something different planned to happen. The whole part with Fink, felt like a setup for making a choice between joining Daisy Fitzroy, or himself. I also recall reading an interview with Levine that said that Shanty Town had been completely redone.
I also felt like the decision to turn Comstock into Booker and to make Elizabeth Booker's daughter was made fairly recently. In trailers from 2011 she still had her little finger (and her missing finger is a part of the twist). Also, there are still moments in the game that suggest something different than a father-daughter relationship. As for Comstock, his original design was totally different and various interviews point to him being a politician, rather than a prophet. In the final version Comstock also disappears for most of the game and I haven't felt his presence nearly as much as Andrew Ryan's. It also seems like the original Columbia didn't view the US as Sodom; in the original trailers, Union Flags were all over the place and Elizbath is playing around with Lincoln's mask (who is portrayed as the devil in the final game).
Then there are other things, like fairly recent interviews that suggest that the game was meant to offer some choices. The whole "Nostrums" system seems to have gotten cut and replaced with rather plain Gear system. I was also expecting Songbird to play a much bigger role; I remember promises of him constantly chasing after Booker and Elizabeth. The way player deal with the Songbird was also meant to affect Booker's relationship with Elizabeth (even one of the loading screens in the final game has Booker wondering if Elizabeth will let him kill it).
Now, I'm aware that things change during the development and it is likely that what they had planned originally might not have been good. But the reason why I'm mentioning all this, is because I feel like in some ways, the game itself comments on its own development. This whole talk about constants and variables and how they lead to the same conclusion feels like a jab at the predefined choices in games, that amount to nothing more than variables. Then there are themes of guilt over troubled past, inclusion of Elizabeth's original design in the ending and pointing out similarities to Bioshock 1 and commenting on the structure of the series.
Perhaps I'm over-analyzing things. But then the game opens with this quote: "The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist", which now feels to me like an appeal to the gamers.
I guess, that is true. In many ways, the Bioshock Infinite I had never played will be always better than the one I got.
tl;dr
Whoever reads this gets a cookie. I had to take this off my chest, since I've been thinking about this game for days. I think I won't be able to make my call on this game till I see "the making of" and see what really went down during the development.
I do share similar sentiments, but I don't let it impact on the experience I got too much. I have a suspicion that a large amount of content was cut when the game was repeatedly slipping deadlines.
Songbird did get me. I think the favourite thing I read in the IGN 'pre-embargo exclusive review' was that it's relentless and always behind you. Which turned out to not be true at all. Made me wonder if the reviewer actually played the game or just regurgitated spiel.
Just finished and wow, loved almost all of it. It's one of maybe 5 games I've actually finished in the last few years.
It wasn't without its issues but I think on the whole the overall quality was pretty top-notch.
Definitely agree the lack of Songbird was disappointing, though I think based on how the story works around his (it's?) appearances that how it turns out makes sense. When he shows up it's to reclaim Elizabeth. Booker's in his way but he's not remotely threatened by him so he just swats him to the side and carries on looking for her; or actually taking her.
When he joins your "side" at the end it's because she asks him to
Ultimately I think the disappointment is just because he's so damn cool and you want to see more of him, not due a failure in the story.
The actually ending made sense to me, to others it didn't. I don't think anything else really needs to be said there.
Question for anybody who tried to collect everything
In Shantytown when you go into the bar you find a key. In the police station there's a voxaphone recording that mentions its a key to an evidence locker. Did anybody find this locker? I was pretty thorough when I played, checking every nook and crany, but I couldn't find that locker anywhere.
RANT INCOMING:
I can't for the life of me understand how this game is sitting at a 96% metacritic. 96! That's upper echelon every game should aspire to be like this territory. It's an 80% game at best.
The plot was all over the place which probably ties into what teanadcigaretes said. So much was crammed into the end just to try and explain everything, that I thought the whole thing fell apart at the seams (or should that be tears.)
My biggest problem with the game though was the design or lack thereof. A few of (but not all) of the problems I had with it.:-
-Searching through every crate and trashcan for food and coins to regain health? Are you kidding me? I should have been as fat as fuck at the end of the game.
-It was nice how I had vigors and they were sold throughout the world yet I was the only person who could actually use them.
-The combat, weapons and enemies were amazingly dull. How was it any different from COD which gets vilified year in year out? Was I shooting things in the wrong way?
-Elizabeth... An indestructible wooden mannequin who throws shit at you and can't for some reason pick up lock picks.
I'm gonna stop before someone hunts me down and kneecaps me.
RANT INCOMING:
I can't for the life of me understand how this game is sitting at a 96% metacritic. 96! That's upper echelon every game should aspire to be like this territory. It's an 80% game at best.
The plot was all over the place which probably ties into what teanadcigaretes said. So much was crammed into the end just to try and explain everything, that I thought the whole thing fell apart at the seams (or should that be tears.)
My biggest problem with the game though was the design or lack thereof. A few of (but not all) of the problems I had with it.:-
-Searching through every crate and trashcan for food and coins to regain health? Are you kidding me? I should have been as fat as fuck at the end of the game.
-It was nice how I had vigors and they were sold throughout the world yet I was the only person who could actually use them.
-The combat, weapons and enemies were amazingly dull. How was it any different from COD which gets vilified year in year out? Was I shooting things in the wrong way?
-Elizabeth... An indestructible wooden mannequin who throws shit at you and can't for some reason pick up lock picks.
I'm gonna stop before someone hunts me down and kneecaps me.
96 metacritic. Nine-six. God help us all.
Really ?
-In any game you can end up fat as fuck. Game logic.
-There were enemies with vigors...
-Combat like in COD... ? Are you trying to say that in every game you shoot enemies it's like COD? Yeah it wasn't ground breaking but COD like? I found some diversity with all vigors and pretty enjoyable weapons.
-Lock picks are a resource to unlock secrets/safes. She tells you when lock pick is around but you are the one playing the game...drop some fat from your ass and pick it up.
You can dislike the game. It's not universal masterpiece which will appeal to everyone. I just find your arguments pretty random and wrong.
Gotta agree about the combat being cod-ish, It felt a lot more streamlined shall we say compared to the previous games.
Pretty standard weapons, ironsights, no alternative ammo, less vigors, 2 weapon carry limit.
Just felt the combat was less enjoyable overall for the lack of a mixture in weapons and vigors.
I pretty much played with the Hand Cannon all the game because you never run out of ammo either.
The art is amazing though, especially the opening scenes. Probably one of the nicest looking UE3 games around if you can still call it UE3 since I heard they changed a lot of it.
The problem I had with the weapons were that so many were super similar. They could have cut half and I wouldn't notice or add it into the upgrading system or have a secondary fire system.
Repeater / submachine gun / burstgun
Carbine / Sniper rifle
Heater / Shotgun
Pistol / handcannon
Volley gun / the other one i don't remember.
EDIT: Also, it would have been awesome if the vigor you were using affected your weapon. Water ability + gun vs fire-soldier = more damage
I found a lot of the weapons and the vigors to be redundant. That was my biggest issue. For the vast majority of the game, I stuck to the Carbine as it had a high damage output and perfect accuracy - I had no interest in the other pea shooters. I barely used the vigors at all until towards the end of the game. The shock jockey gates were also annoying - they give you the ability to open them if you find them; then barely include any at all in the rest of the game!
I use almost all vigors and weapons throughout the game.Never really stuck to one or two.But i have to say i play on hard and i really like it.
No spoilers:
One thing alot of people i think do not understand is that everything in this game serves the story.Even when you die in combat and see you know what is tie in to the story and make sense...even that.This is maybe one of the rare occasions where everything make sence even the smallest things if you inderstand the concepts behind you know what.
It's not universal masterpiece which will appeal to everyone.
That's my point though. At 96/95 metacritic it IS regarded as a masterpiece which in my mind it clearly is not.
I really respect what Ken Levine is trying to do with the storytelling in his games I just wish he wouldn't tie them with generic shooter mechanics. It would be like if Hideo Kojima made all of the metal gears rhythm action games. Ok, that's and extreme example but hopefully you get my point.
Also, I don't buy into the whole, "Everything is that way in the game for a reason and it serves the plot" shtick. That's just pulling the wool over our eyes as to why the game mechanics are pretty much a copy and paste of the previous game.
I enjoyed playing a lot.. was confused by the end but have more or less resolved it in my head..
one thing I read somewhere stuck with me though;
if different choices spawn off new realities, what if somewhere Booker decides not to let Elizabeth drown him?
and another thing I can't quite get my head around :
so you drown, but you aren't the Booker who has just participated in the wounded knee massacre so how does that work? are you possessing his body like Quantum Leap? and if you drown then, you'll also never marry and have a child. something doesn't seem to add up
Replies
Finished last night, game is way too easy on medium, especially with the hand cannon, should be renamed headshot cannon.
What happened to the hacking and tonics and multiple ammo types though? Also the combat suffers a bit to me with the 2 weapon carry limit.
I just wish it wouldn't lockup my PC every two minutes now. Hopefully I can get this figured out soon -- the wait is killing me!
A game that deserves the sentence "Shut up and take all my money!" Good job everyone, make sure to drop us an Art-Dump if possible!
Probably one of the few games that have moved me in the last few years and is truly well put together. Now I must have DLC's so get cracking people!
Also. I can't sing praise enough about the "odd two people" that pop up every now and again. Best characters and dialouge in ages and I want more. Loved every second of them.
PS: Love the squished scaled down pillar in the shop in the beginning. It's an art bug but it's kinda funny.
The ending was awesome.
Both those moments just made me stop and stare in wonder.
You guys have really created something else here:)
system shock 2
finished Bioshock Infinite, about an hour ago, still letting everything sink in. it was an amazing ride! Game of the year as far as I am concerned.
I wonder how they would create another political dystopia, when they've already worked both sides of that spectrum.
Perhaps the super villian or enviromentalism route? Ship all the good people to the moon and prepare to unleash something on earth to wipe out everyone for good and restart the world and be it's protector from afar?
I bet they'd make it work no matter what it was.
Up until the last level, I was positive this would be one of my favourite games. But then the ending happens and I'm not sure what to think of it.
I still don't know if I should treat the ending as symbolic, or factual. The rest of the game is grounded in sci-fi, but the ending is somewhat postmodern and fantastical and does not seem to obey the rules of the rest of the game, nor its overall mood.
Overall, I feel slightly disappointed. Not because of what the game is, but because of what it could have been. When you start truly question it's consistency it begins to fall apart a little bit and tries to tackle way too many themes at once. In this regard, I feel that Bioshock 1 had the better plot. Where BI succeeds is the character development. I wish I could have had both.
Shit, I cant remember the last time I was so conflicted over a game. Perhaps this is statement of its quality. :poly142:
edit:
Spoilered that shit out. I tried to be ambiguous but my comment might still reveal a bit too much.
The game seems too easy for me, I'm playing on hard and practically breezing through it. You want to feel challenged even in a story driven game, and so far it feels like the game is playing me more than I'm playing it.
I can agree with that. I did the same thing as you with that guard in a private room, only I possessed him...and for some reason that sneaky act caused everyone in the area to attack. They could have done a far better job at how combat flags are triggered.
Aside from the handymen, which I found extremely tough to kill (they are too fast for their size, slowing them down a bit would have helped create more tactics in taking them down), the rest was pretty easy. I found that I really only needed the carbine and shotgun for the entire game, which is kind of boring since you get those early on. The vigors (when combing them) are good too, though devil's kiss kills most foes easily when upgraded.
Again the only huge complaint I have is that most of the NPCs have the same face, clothing depending on where you are and the art assets range from great to god awful with too much mirrored texture patterns popping up. You would think a game in 2013 could handle a bit more mesh and texture complexity.
One other peeve so far is that the song bird doesnt play as much of a role as one would expect. Hes pretty much non existent for a large part of the game...which is odd since the game version I bought came with a giant statue of it.
Over all great game. Worth every penny and hour spent. Love that art direction.
That . . . that is all.
@Gav: W/e you worked on man, it's been a while since I felt like I was inhabited a live in world. Barely any words to describe how freaking hard it must have been for everyone to perfect this.
Every person that worked on this did a fantastic job, on both the programming and art side - I never once saw a bug, and every event went off fine. To complement the perfect internal mechanics, the art was amazing, the characters felt alive and the environments were simply stunning.
This is truly one of the most enjoyable games I have ever played, and personally I put it right up there with the best of them.
great work guys, i take my hat off for you.
But its amazing how this game was just as good, if not BETTER the second time, simply because now you caught onto all those small tiny hints that were given. Its actually quite a thing to see how it all comes together. Oddly, I found the Ghost battles a lot easier this time, which... Puzzled me...
I dont want to spoil anything so no details and critiques can be given, but props are necessary for that art direction. If they make a sequel, prequel or anything tied to bioshock infinite, I wont be buying it. In fact, I really dont even want to look at the song bird statue anymore because the character served no real purpose other than some contrived "run from this" entity. Still dont even know what the hell it is.
Sorry man but I don't think you understood this game. It was not about the choice. Just like in previous Bioshocks. This games are not about choice. It could only destroy the story and narrative. You want choice play GTA.
You sometimes don't need to know everything. Story is wrapped up pretty well. Yeah you can find some logical flaws. But you don't need to get every answer from the game. Use your brain. It touches heavy stuff and you want anwser like 'A is A and it's good. B is bad for you kids'.
You can always use spoiler tag if you want to throw some specific stuff. Maybe you have some valid points which I can't see.
Comstock is Booker. When Booker refused the baptism, he went on to marry and have a baby (Anna) - but when Booker took the baptism, he became Comstock and founded Columbia with the Lutences. Comstock becomes infertile, so the only way to preserve his lineage was to break down the barrier between realities and steal or otherwise take Anna, who later becomes Elizabeth. Booker will then always try to take Elizabeth back (in fact you are the 122nd in an endless cycle). The only way to break the cycle was to stop Comstock ever 'being born' - by drowning at the point of baptism. Part of the tragedy is that there is no possible scenario that sees both Elizabeth and Booker together; Comstock will always take her.
There's a lot more to it than that. A lot. I can go into detail if you really want me to.
As an aside, Booker is also Andrew Ryan. There's always a man, a lighthouse and a city. There's also always a paradox. This is why Infinite is called Infinite.
I worked a lot of it out on paper after finishing the game - there is so much more to it than just what I mentioned
The entire thing was weak, intellectually cheap and attempted to be complex for the sake of complexity. Sure its cool that a few loose ends come together to make a full circle (such as the light house and those who take you here), but that doesnt fix the giant holes in the premise entirely. For creating such a limitless set of possibilities, its sure odd when the narrative then becomes limited in the baptism or not point. So already it does its premise disservice.
In my opinion it just ends up being a mess that conflicts upon its very premise, one that counters it self in a cheap fashion and ends with "ahah! arnt we clever". My answer to that is "no, not clever, more annoying and disappointing than anything else."
Anyways, it was a let down on an intellectual front in my opinion. The purpose of song bird, despite all the marketing hype surrounding him is just pointless.
As for choice, is its odd to give the player the illusion of choice initially but then take it away. Usually choice is used to create some sort of emotional response, which then increases the state of immersion by having the player care about the outcome of their choice. Its nice when you can allow it to allow the player to relate to the character they play (from their first person perspective), but jarring when it turns out to not reflect the player in any way after that.
Anyways this is just my opinion and I get "it", just disagree on the claim thats actually a good ending and story.
* Comstock was pretty busy creating Columbia so he never had Anna. After creating Columbia, Comstock was present for a great number of experiments with the rift machine. Unfortunately heavy exposure caused him to go sterile and when he wanted to produce an heir, he could not. Exposure to the machine also caused his cells to start falling apart which gives him cancer as well as makes him appear much older than he actually is. Anyways, because of the machine, he sees an alternate reality where he has produced an heir, so he sends the Luteces to procure his "flesh and blood child" from a different version of himself.
* Later on he has them killed (which fails as it just pushed them into time and space) because they knew the truth about Elizabeth. He also kills his wife because she threatened to go public with the fact that Elizabeth was not her child. (sadly in another thread someone brought up that it could have been her mother as she would never have died in childbirth, but because she didn't know about the rifts or her origin, she refused to accept the baby.)
* From what I can tell, Booker and Comstock are the same age, it's just that Comstocks body has started to fall apart from heavy exposure to the machine.
* Slate doesn't recognize Comstock because of his body falling apart. At this point he looks nothing like Booker and since he refuses to talk about anything that happened before being baptized no one knows his past. Slates justification is furthered when Booker shows up, because how could the same person be in two places at once? He obviously wouldn't know that Booker is from a different dimension.
* The time from when Anna is taken to when Booker travels to their universe is around 19-20 years.
I'll admit I was
In the case of Infinite (and only in Infinite), the narrative ends with ensuring that Comstock can never exist. This is done by letting Booker make the choice to become baptised so that when Elizabeth kills Booker during the baptism, there is no longer any possibility that Booker can become Comstock - because all versions of Booker now die at this point. This isn't odd, it's the entire point of the story. There are still infinite other versions of Booker out there, but they're not relevant which is why Elizabeth doesn't show you (except Rapture). The point is is that the Booker/Comstock infinite loop is broken at that point and most importantly can only be broken at that point in time because that is where the choice is made - if Booker had survived the baptism, then there'd once again be an infinite number of Comstocks to steal Elizabeth from an infinite number of Bookers. It has to be at that one moment in time and cannot be anywhere else.
The whole topic of racism and xenophobia is forgotten pretty quickly and Booker's racism is only hinted at in the Hall of Heroes.
Vox Populi ends up being a minor distraction and doesn't offer much commentary beyond "victims can become oppressors"; there was a great opportunity to explore Booker's character further, but the investigation into "Booker the martyr" ends abruptly with a few Voxaphones.
Then there is Booker himself, whose actions during the ending seem very out of place. Throughout the game, he frequently remarks how he does not believe in washing away your sins, how you have to deal with you crimes and face the consequences. In fact, he refuses the baptism for the very reason.
Yet, moments later he chooses to do the exact opposite. By choosing to "kill" Comstock, he negates the consequences not only of Comstock's crimes, but also of selling Anna, the things he does while working for Pinkertons and all the genocide he commits in Columbia.
But what saddens me the most is that it renders the whole story meaningless. Everything that happened in the game, might as well have not existed, as the game seems to frequently point out that linear time does not exist in its universe and all events happen at once (reinforced by Luteces and the fact that it is possible to jump both in space and in time). Then again, this is still confusing to me, as the game bends the rules for its own purpose when it allows Elizabeth to merge all timelines into one (or at the very least, all timelines where Booker would have accepted that baptism).
Now lastly, I cannot shake off the feeling that I was playing several different games at once. There are points in the game that made me feel like Irrational had something different planned to happen. The whole part with Fink, felt like a setup for making a choice between joining Daisy Fitzroy, or himself. I also recall reading an interview with Levine that said that Shanty Town had been completely redone.
I also felt like the decision to turn Comstock into Booker and to make Elizabeth Booker's daughter was made fairly recently. In trailers from 2011 she still had her little finger (and her missing finger is a part of the twist). Also, there are still moments in the game that suggest something different than a father-daughter relationship. As for Comstock, his original design was totally different and various interviews point to him being a politician, rather than a prophet. In the final version Comstock also disappears for most of the game and I haven't felt his presence nearly as much as Andrew Ryan's. It also seems like the original Columbia didn't view the US as Sodom; in the original trailers, Union Flags were all over the place and Elizbath is playing around with Lincoln's mask (who is portrayed as the devil in the final game).
Then there are other things, like fairly recent interviews that suggest that the game was meant to offer some choices. The whole "Nostrums" system seems to have gotten cut and replaced with rather plain Gear system. I was also expecting Songbird to play a much bigger role; I remember promises of him constantly chasing after Booker and Elizabeth. The way player deal with the Songbird was also meant to affect Booker's relationship with Elizabeth (even one of the loading screens in the final game has Booker wondering if Elizabeth will let him kill it).
Now, I'm aware that things change during the development and it is likely that what they had planned originally might not have been good. But the reason why I'm mentioning all this, is because I feel like in some ways, the game itself comments on its own development. This whole talk about constants and variables and how they lead to the same conclusion feels like a jab at the predefined choices in games, that amount to nothing more than variables. Then there are themes of guilt over troubled past, inclusion of Elizabeth's original design in the ending and pointing out similarities to Bioshock 1 and commenting on the structure of the series.
Perhaps I'm over-analyzing things. But then the game opens with this quote: "The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist", which now feels to me like an appeal to the gamers.
I guess, that is true. In many ways, the Bioshock Infinite I had never played will be always better than the one I got.
tl;dr
Whoever reads this gets a cookie. I had to take this off my chest, since I've been thinking about this game for days. I think I won't be able to make my call on this game till I see "the making of" and see what really went down during the development.
Songbird did get me. I think the favourite thing I read in the IGN 'pre-embargo exclusive review' was that it's relentless and always behind you. Which turned out to not be true at all. Made me wonder if the reviewer actually played the game or just regurgitated spiel.
It wasn't without its issues but I think on the whole the overall quality was pretty top-notch.
Definitely agree the lack of Songbird was disappointing, though I think based on how the story works around his (it's?) appearances that how it turns out makes sense. When he shows up it's to reclaim Elizabeth. Booker's in his way but he's not remotely threatened by him so he just swats him to the side and carries on looking for her; or actually taking her.
The actually ending made sense to me, to others it didn't. I don't think anything else really needs to be said there.
Question for anybody who tried to collect everything
also, Brittany Spears and Seal
Though I saw
Either way, it's one of the best games I've ever played. I haven't played any other title that came even close to getting me as involved.
I can't for the life of me understand how this game is sitting at a 96% metacritic. 96! That's upper echelon every game should aspire to be like this territory. It's an 80% game at best.
The plot was all over the place which probably ties into what teanadcigaretes said. So much was crammed into the end just to try and explain everything, that I thought the whole thing fell apart at the seams (or should that be tears.)
My biggest problem with the game though was the design or lack thereof. A few of (but not all) of the problems I had with it.:-
-Searching through every crate and trashcan for food and coins to regain health? Are you kidding me? I should have been as fat as fuck at the end of the game.
-It was nice how I had vigors and they were sold throughout the world yet I was the only person who could actually use them.
-The combat, weapons and enemies were amazingly dull. How was it any different from COD which gets vilified year in year out? Was I shooting things in the wrong way?
-Elizabeth... An indestructible wooden mannequin who throws shit at you and can't for some reason pick up lock picks.
I'm gonna stop before someone hunts me down and kneecaps me.
96 metacritic. Nine-six. God help us all.
Really ?
-In any game you can end up fat as fuck. Game logic.
-There were enemies with vigors...
-Combat like in COD... ? Are you trying to say that in every game you shoot enemies it's like COD? Yeah it wasn't ground breaking but COD like? I found some diversity with all vigors and pretty enjoyable weapons.
-Lock picks are a resource to unlock secrets/safes. She tells you when lock pick is around but you are the one playing the game...drop some fat from your ass and pick it up.
You can dislike the game. It's not universal masterpiece which will appeal to everyone. I just find your arguments pretty random and wrong.
Gotta agree about the combat being cod-ish, It felt a lot more streamlined shall we say compared to the previous games.
Pretty standard weapons, ironsights, no alternative ammo, less vigors, 2 weapon carry limit.
Just felt the combat was less enjoyable overall for the lack of a mixture in weapons and vigors.
I pretty much played with the Hand Cannon all the game because you never run out of ammo either.
The art is amazing though, especially the opening scenes. Probably one of the nicest looking UE3 games around if you can still call it UE3 since I heard they changed a lot of it.
Repeater / submachine gun / burstgun
Carbine / Sniper rifle
Heater / Shotgun
Pistol / handcannon
Volley gun / the other one i don't remember.
EDIT: Also, it would have been awesome if the vigor you were using affected your weapon. Water ability + gun vs fire-soldier = more damage
No spoilers:
One thing alot of people i think do not understand is that everything in this game serves the story.Even when you die in combat and see you know what is tie in to the story and make sense...even that.This is maybe one of the rare occasions where everything make sence even the smallest things if you inderstand the concepts behind you know what.
EDIT:
Bioshock Infinite Polygon Reviewers Roundtable: http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/2/4174386/reviewers-roundtable-bioshock-infinite
That's my point though. At 96/95 metacritic it IS regarded as a masterpiece which in my mind it clearly is not.
I really respect what Ken Levine is trying to do with the storytelling in his games I just wish he wouldn't tie them with generic shooter mechanics. It would be like if Hideo Kojima made all of the metal gears rhythm action games. Ok, that's and extreme example but hopefully you get my point.
Also, I don't buy into the whole, "Everything is that way in the game for a reason and it serves the plot" shtick. That's just pulling the wool over our eyes as to why the game mechanics are pretty much a copy and paste of the previous game.
one thing I read somewhere stuck with me though;
and another thing I can't quite get my head around :