Fist off thanks for sharing this!
I can't seem to load it in win7 64 bit, I've installed NET1.1 32 bit but it's still a no go. Anyone have a solution?
IS there a Silo's "orient tool" or equivalent in VW ?
Cheers!
edit:
I am being moderated so it takes time to process my posts.So I'll have to edit past comments.
I got it working by downloading msvcr71.dll, here is the link to instalation guide and download links for quick reference in future problems with win7 64 bit.
I also found extrude with polys controlled by mouse cursor position does something similar to "orient" but it's really unusable since the sensitivity is too great and polys fly around when working in perspective.Is there mild version of "mouse controlled poly extrusion"?
What I disliked the most is "choppiness" of display when interacting, but that could be my win7 64bit system or graphics/drivers.Sometimes tools don't react when working with subdivision. Also dragging mouse to change values, sometimes has no effect and is unpredictable.That might be graphic driver issue, I can't tell for the time being.
First off, this is wonderful piece! Very powerful tools and workflow.
With a bit of time to set it up, speeds like Silo + dozen of goodies.
I found the equivalent of Silo "orient tool", much like poly extrude with cursor control,but this extrusion ( polygon extrusion-cursor only )is somewhat hard to control in perspective view, is there any easing/tension parameter for this?
Also I encountered tool hick ups and simply not carnying out the tool/command when working in subdivision (even lvl 1).I will take note when it happens as I can recall when it exactly happens.
Viewport interaction seems a bit "choppy", it doesn't flow nicely, maybe it's my driver.
Seems like it uses a lot of resources.
I think it would be better to polish the program as it is, than to throw in bunch of new tools. Interaction needs to be solid, and installation effortless.Or maybe not, how ever you imagined it.
Really happy to see it grow like a mountain over a short period of time!
UI is MUCH better now.
ya got the same issue as memag, i had it working on win7 64bit before, but now that i did a freash install of win7 64bit on a new comp i cant get VW to run, i made sure i got dx9b and above and i got the .net 2 and 3.5 that come with win7 pluss installed .net 1.1 and 4.
i really need to get this working since i got a persnal project on the go that i was doing all in VW and it is all saved and vws.
@memag thanks mate, that did the trick, and after doing that i remember having to do that for a game on mny old win7 install before which explains why VW always worked on that install.
I also found extrude with polys controlled by mouse cursor position does something similar to "orient" but it's really unusable since the sensitivity is too great and polys fly around when working in perspective.Is there mild version of "mouse controlled poly extrusion"?
You're right this does work exactly like Silo's orient tool and the crazy sensitivity is because the pivot point is right where the poly lies. Move it away and it behaves. It would be good to have this function separate from the extrude tool, yeah.
Sometimes tools don't react when working with subdivision. Also dragging mouse to change values, sometimes has no effect and is unpredictable.
I have found loads of inconsistencies with the way tools work on subdivided meshes. I've tried to post them when I discover them so perhaps you could do the same.
I remember you from the Silo boards I think, good to see you giving VW a shot. I'm hooked too and it feels like the good ol days when Feed & Jamchild worked closely with the users.
No problem with the "orient tool", it would be nice addition if there was some, but no big deal.
I'll stick with cursor extrusion.
Great, the program is already packed but choppy interaction is only thing that seems "misplaced" there.
I will also report on when do these hick-ups happen.
Yeah , I WAS on Silo forums.I was blocked for criticizing (a bit harshly, I admit) their indifference.
I found Nevercenter irresponsibility and lack of interaction with users a bit nonprofessional.
Guess they lost a lot of (future) customers, but whatever rows their boat.
Feed made a post few weeks ago, so you can read the pale explanation of Silos past and future.
I'm glad I stumbled again on VW as it seems it came a long way since the birth.
And frankly it is already a pleasant experience.
I'll try to contribute with bug reports/splash screens and logos, if time allows me to do so.
agreed noticed some hicups and slowdowns with when working with subdivision surfaces in VW.
and i aggree with your remarks about silo and NC, i still use silo from time to time, but with how it is being handled by NC i wouldn't ever recommend it to anyone looking for a new modler, at best now i would tell someone to try the trial to learn about how tool interaction works in it , than apply that to maya, modo, or VW
Silo is great, but is dead.
As long as there are just words from NC and no actual updates for years, the death remains. Pixologic development model is something completely different.
I think VW will be a quite substantial "update" to Silo.
memag: The choppy display could be caused by the cpu processor setting.
Edit > Options > Set Number of Processors. It's better to set it one or two less than the number of available processors for windows background running programs.
Can you explain more about the Orient tool? How it hehave and why you can benefit from it?
memag: The choppy display could be caused by the cpu processor setting.
Edit > Options > Set Number of Processors. It's better to set it one or two less than the number of available processors for windows background running programs.
Can you explain more about the Orient tool? How it hehave and why you can benefit from it?
Oh yes, it improved the interaction drastically.Thank you!
I am afraid I don't have Silo currently installed so I can't make a video demo.
Basically Orient Tool behaves like VW extrude with cursor control BUT it orients the polygon NORMAL to position of it's nearest parallel polygon center (or average-center of those 4 edges). That makes it's movement much more comfortable and controllable.
Extrude with cursor control, it seems, doesn't orient (point it's poly normal) to it's initial position. But this rotation is happening around arbitrary point somewhere between current and initial position plus some offset in space, which makes it harder to predict and control. Also Orient Tool doesn't do extrusion, only the orientation part, so it's good for tweaking.
It doesn't have to be a separate tool (or anything at all for that matter),
but improved VW extrude with cursor control. I think it would be much more useful than the current tool behavior.
The benefit is easy and quick blocking out of form(with extrude), especially for limbs and organic stuff.
It eliminates need for additional rotation operation.
Hope you understood me.
Thanks for asking and listening!
Okay, I found a display glitch.
Make a sphere or cylinder, give it one subD level (`),
hover over the horizontal edge to highlight it, do an "edge loop cut/slide".
It doesn't display the cutting but highlights the polygon loop where the cut will go.
Can anyone verify?
While playing more with VW I had a go at making a sprocket, but I noticed that there is no option (that I could see) to pick alternating faces or points. There is the option for edges - Ring Grow or Ring Grow Full allowing you to pick the strides you want (Although its now not working for me at the moment)
The request is:
If it not three can we have the option to pick faces of points and have a similar option to pick stride to allow alternating selections? hope that made sense.
Also I noticed there is no option to extrude edges.
eg:
In drawing the sprocket I drew a N-Polygon with 20 sides to pretty much create a circle, I then wanted to extrude the outer edge inwards so I could create a hole in the middle.
Is that option there ? if not, can we have one ?
You can extrude edges in at least 3 ways (cursor, normal and face direction).
You could extrude it along the face,select the inner edge loop,slide it,then delete the inner polygons to create the hole.
Simple way would be to double click (full grow) any polygon, do inset polygon, delete the inner part.
agreed noticed some hicups and slowdowns with when working with subdivision surfaces in VW.
and i aggree with your remarks about silo and NC, i still use silo from time to time, but with how it is being handled by NC i wouldn't ever recommend it to anyone looking for a new modler, at best now i would tell someone to try the trial to learn about how tool interaction works in it , than apply that to maya, modo, or VW
I also agree totally about VW being a substantial update to Silo! It is an awesome Modeler already w tons of good features, it just takes some time how to do things u do in other apps the correct way in VW.. but it can b done, this app is only getting better each update, thanx to patience and helpful feedback from users.. more important easy to use updates are coming just stay tuned, b patient n helpful not counter productive, like help others w shortcuts or things I've learned an ex way to do in VW... I'm wanting these users to b helpful to each other, help Istonia to make VW an awesome product like 3dcoat is... and I know it is headed this way. Like I mentioned the ex mouse setup for polygon work in metasequoia, where u can add polystyrene and tweak Bert's edges n polystyrene all and move rotate or zoom w/o need to stop n click other buttons or hotkeys... Hope u guys continue to help out with VW... as I'm hooked, I love where were going...
You can extrude edges in at least 3 ways (cursor, normal and face direction).
You could extrude it along the face,select the inner edge loop,slide it,then delete the inner polygons to create the hole.
Simple way would be to double click (full grow) any polygon, do inset polygon, delete the inner part.
Hey memag,
Thanks for the tip, I never noticed the extrude function when I selected the edges.
I have now done the sprocket, needs a bit more work to look like it is supposed to.
Is there a function in VW similar to the Full Grow function where you can choose to pick alternate Faces or Points similar that you can do with edges, that allows you to pick a number the same as in the edges option ?
If you mean "stride #"-gap loop , like as stepped selection, you have shortcut for it (think it's G), but faster would be to middle click on starting component and then double left click on what you want to be second component to do a gap loop selection, or middle click on start component then double middle click on second component to do a gap ring selection.
Here is complete description. Power of the double click workflow.
If you mean "stride #"-gap loop , like as stepped selection, you have shortcut for it (think it's G), but faster would be to middle click on starting component and then double left click on what you want to be second component to do a gap loop selection, or middle click on start component then double middle click on second component to do a gap ring selection.
Here is complete description. Power of the double click workflow.
G'day memag,
Thanks again for your help (I feel so inadequate )
I got the Whole Shell and the Range Loop sussed out a little, but cannot recreate the middle and right hand spheres, I don;t know how to get the selection to miss a row or 2 or whatever I choose.
Am I right in assuming this method doesn't work with vertices ?
Also I tried this method on an N-Polygon and it didn't work either.
I am off to give the help file a good going over.
Again, thanks for your help.
If you have a mind to, please feel free to do a little video tut :poly136:
1) Make a poly selection like in the first sphere image. 2) Hover over desired poly in the loop to highlight it, press and hold MMB and click with LMB. That will do a gap expand selection. If you do the LMB click/hold and MMB click, you'll have a range expand. It is in the manual.
It's easier with polys, edges have rings so it might be a bit confusing.
You always start with MMB if you are doing a gap (and ring operations), and LMB for everything else.
IStonia, thanks for the info about the Retopo tool, never played with it in VW... This helped out majorly.. Now I don't even need the Add Poly tool... Also, while in ReTopo, I noticed the interface does react just like I was mentioning about MetaSequoia.. Boy do I feel like an idiot now.. Doh! IStonia, just keep on doing what your doing.. and ignore us idiots that don't know how to look for alternative ways to do things in the app.. hehehe... Oh man, now I can get down to business on my models for the game we are working on..
Thanks again IStonia, for yer patience...
Ciao' 4 Now,
StOrM3
PS. VW just took over Silo's spot in my toolset.. Permanently..
Summary of changes:
* Some progress in performance improvement. There are still lots of work to do, it is an on going process.
* Top menus have been made contextual.
* Toolbar has been modified. You need to do Views > Toobars > Reset.
* Views > Windows > Scene Info Window. You need to do Views > Windows > Reset.
* Edit > Customize Tools > Export To Text File. Some people may like to print out the hotkey list for better memorizing.
* Edit > Options > Polygon Cursor Control Extrusion Options > Half Orient. memag : This is the option you need for extrude+orient. Also polygon H+MMB is the orient tool you asked for originally.
Thanks!
storm3: Glad to know that the Retopo tool fits your workflow!
Why don't u just make it a release once the code is rewritten? It's 'beta' now and I hope once you release it, will get publication and more ppl will use it, thus feedback and comments will pour in. Just like sculptris.
Anyway, my respect and salute to you for keeping faith on this app.
*update: I experienced viewport slowdown when setting the pivot to manual and move them.
I should be so lucky, lucky, lucky ,lucky...(Kylie Minogue)
edit:
Kun, is it possible to make soft selection grow/flow ALONG the geometry surface (based on edge distance),
not expand in sphere influence manner?
What I mean is, for example, you select fingernail and want to soft select the whole finger,
BUT so that neighbor finger points (which are in near proximity) doesn't get affected by the influence sphere.
It's called "consider neighborhood" in XSI and "surface" option in Silo.
Here is a quote from Softimage and Silo wiki.
Consider Neighborhood
Provides further control over which components are affected by considering the adjacency of affected components, in addition to their distance from the components that are being directly manipulated:
If it is off, all components within the Distance Limit are affected.
If it is on, a component within the Distance Limit is not affected if it is not adjacent to components that are being directly manipulated, nor adjacent to other affected components.
This option is particularly useful when working on objects that curve back on themselves.
There are two types of soft selection -- Surface, and Spherical. Spherical is based purely on distance from the manipulator. Surface is based on distance across the surface from the nearest selected point. An object with folds, for example, may have points which are very close with Spherical falloff, but much farther away with Surface falloff.
I think it would be a valuable addition to soft selection option menu.
Also, is it possible that "orient tool" (polygon local move -cursor direction) affects the soft selection as well,
not just active polygon? Something like tweak move/rotate.
Thank you for listening.
Hope I don't bother you too much.
Many thanks for making Menus context-sensitive IStonia!
One might try to even leave the Sub-Menus for "Commands" and "Tools" away so that one does see everything on Top Level (I frankly have difficulties to understand the distinction between "Commands" and "Tools" anyway...
If you think this Separation should stay - might a Separator in the Menu suffice?
Sure, the Menu gets longer this way.
I currently don't have a lot time to test but I'll be back.
Cheers!
Istonia,
it seems that when two non adjacent (and sometimes adjacent) polys are selected, with soft selection on, orient tool (poly normal-cursor) only affects selected polygons, not the soft selection.
It works fine with one poly and sometimes with adjacent polys,as far as I can tell.
This is the situation in which orient tool (move poly normal -cursor) doesn't affect s.selection and only manipulates those two polys.
Also, is it possible that soft selection setting (surface/spherical) is saved when closing program? It looks like "spherical" is the default one.
Eventually, to make menu buttons to save/load (import/export) all program settings (shortcuts,preferences,streamline),from one main file (Silo like)and to read it on start up.
This is merely a thought.
What would be good as well, for the ones who don't use wheel ZOOM at all, if the default "ZOOM on mouse wheel" can be re-mapped to soft selection falloff, or compromise with ZOOM when cursor is in 3d space, and s.sel falloff when hovering over the object? I looked for it, but couldn't find it in shortcut settings. It this case SHIFT + wheel could be mapped to soft selection bias, bulging or pinching the profile curve.
Summary of changes:
* Top menus reorganized.
* Orient tool softselection behaviour improved on multi selection.
* The app remember the softselection style on shut down.
Thanks!
memag: All the setting files are stored in your user Documents folder > Digitalfossils > VoidWorld.
You can scroll MMB to adjust soft selection in a few streamline tools: Tweak, Normal Move and now Polygon Local Move. Once the hotkey is down, move the cursor over an object, if soft selection is on, you should see the soft selection cage. For Polygon Local Move tool, to enable the visible of the cage, do this: Edit > Custom StreamLine tools > select the Polygon Local Move tool and remove its NMB tool bacaus once this tool is activated it will hide the soft selection cage. I have removed this NMB tool in the default setting in this update.
Damn, it seems my "brat" reputation is following me around.
Yep, I was a frequent on Silo forum. Not so much these days/years.
Cheers rogerknightly!
Don't be surprised this topic is the gathering point of ol'silo users. I was a frequent there too till they banned me definetely for making fun of their silence and own contradictions.
Don't be surprised this topic is the gathering point of ol'silo users. I was a frequent there too till they banned me definetely for making fun of their silence and own contradictions.
Actually it's quite reasonable that Silo users are here.
I forgot to mention I was banned for criticizing NC, as well.
I was a customer and I am not a bad person.
Silo is great, but VW is better IMHO.
Just a bit more performance and subD polishing.
Don't get lazy now Istonia!
edit:
- relax selection has a hard time transfering itself , when in symmetry mode. But it snaps as soon as you do another operation.Sort of a refresh issue.
- If I have non-orthodox edge selection,I can't get "polygons in selected edges" to perform as I think it would. Here is an example of the "problem".
Neat trick is to change component to vertex and then to polygon, and then I have all the polys selected, but sometimes some adjacent ones get selected too. Can you check this out Istonia and maybe make it somehow easier to convert/select, if it's possible at all?
- In case that subcomponent conversions work easier, would it be possible if VW remembered last sub-component selection for every type (point,edge,poly), not just change it at current location?
here's explanation from XSI guide:
"Selecting a component filter restores the last-selected components of that type on the active objects. For example, if you select the Point filter, the most recently selected points on the active objects are automatically selected and highlighted."
- Also what i found interesting is multi component selection (holding SHIFT while clicking the subcomponent filter):
"To select two or more types of components at the same time, first select some components of one type and then press the Shift key while changing filters. The components you have already selected are not removed from the selection."
- Then what would be neat with edge extrusion is, if the edge isn't border edge (open),
to first do a chamfer-refine operation, select the middle (initial) edge and move it (normal or cursor) depending on extrusion type. Like this:
How do I create polygons right away, like in Silo/XSI for example ?
Can't seem to wrap my mind around retopo and poly tool, even though I read the manual.
Can anyone give me a push? Thanks.
One more thing, about symmetry. I noticed when I have defined preferred "center seam" I can select components just fine (or at least highlighting works as it should), but as soon as I do a manipulation of geometry it snaps to world X,Y,Z symmetry plane (whichever is defined in options).
Seam calculation from edge-
Symmetry created-
Highlighting/selection of component-
Manipulation and world planes symmetry-
What would be nice is for symmetry to work from picked "center seam", and define it's local mirroring plane from there, and not snap the center seam to world axis. Perhaps make "don't snap to world axis when creating symmetry" option?
Like this:
1.Create a plane.
2.Option 1: Goto vertex mode, D+LMB, click-click-click then click the first clicked point.
Option 2: Goto edge mode and open Retopo tool, click-click-click then click the first clicked point.
Note: When trying to create a new vertex, the app needs to know which mesh it sould belong to. If there is only one mesh in the scene, there should be no problem. If there are multi meshes in the scene, make sure only one object is selected and only one mesh of that object is not hidden and freezed.
Yes, edge dragging with SHIFT works fine, but I can't draw polygon so it continues to the last one created. It makes first/starting vertex but refuses to define/draw vertex point in space.I can draw one polygon with create polygon tool. but the second no.
VW-
Silo-
Are you familiar with (awesome) Silo surface tool?
It's basicaly what you're doing with SHIFT and edge dragging in "retopo",or should I say combination of all retopo and poly creation tools.
But it has edge orientation while dragging out (like you did for poly extrusion -half orient),
youcan snap to other polygons, if you hold the mouse button while snapping and dragg yuo define end vertex in space, you can bridge edges, scale the dragged edge if you hold mouse button and drag,
if clicked on the polygon and you start to drag you create polygon strip of the approximately same size as initial polygon, click and drag a component- tweak it...
Here's a video of first surface tool, when it didn't have edge scaling feature (holding mouse button and dragging while finishing the end edge):
memag:
*In VW, symmetry plane is always defined to one of the three mesh's axisplane. You can't change it.
*I did the retopo tool long time ago with little sense of workflow. I will improve it a little.
memag:
*In VW, symmetry plane is always defined to one of the three mesh's axisplane. You can't change it.
*I did the retopo tool long time ago with little sense of workflow. I will improve it a little.
I was recently directed to this thread (and amazing program) by a friend of mine yesterday, and I have to say, it made my day!! IStonia you are a mastermind!!! I'm a long time power-Silo user. I'm also a full time Maya guy. Before that I was a Max guy, and before that, I used NENDO, so I know my modelers. I've been working in games for 14 years... wow that makes me old. Long story short, I'm always looking for ways to speed up my process.
Often times, us modelers sit around joking "I wish all of the modeling package developers would get in a room, and come up with ONE solid modeler to rule them ALL!" IStonia, it looks like you heard us! So I thank you from the deepest part of my soul for taking on such an enormous task, and doing a fantastic job at that.
I took half a day yesterday to read through the entire 46 pages of this thread, and I'm amazed by the way you listen to what people are saying, and either implement it right away, telling them how to do it, or why there's a better way. Quite a 180 degree turn from where the Silo support sits now. "Sigh", I know they used to be that way. And I've been sad for a long time that they just let it go. It reminds me of training up an Olympic hopeful, and just leaving him on his own because another Olympic hopeful showed more promise (iPhone Apps). Sad. Not to gush any longer, but thank you for picking up the torch and running with it!
All that being said, I'll do what I can to help make the software even better, starting with the OBJ import and export between VoidWorld, Silo, and Maya. I realize you didn't write the obj file format, and that there's only so much you can do. At the moment, I have several models that I have built in Silo, that I would like to finish off with VW, then bring them into Maya to render. So far I've had strange results with mesh objects getting renamed, and combined.
I did a few import/export tests and here is a simple test for you to try.
1. I made two basic boxed in VW, then exported them as an OBJ with "Regroup polygons by meshes" selected in the Format Options. I brought them into both Silo and Maya just fine, perfect! (They came in combined and re-named if I didn't have that option checked, I think it should be checked by default).
2. I exported the same boxes out of Maya as an obj, and tried to import them back into VW. For some reason, no matter what check-boxes in the file format properties I have selected, I can't seem to bring the boxes in separated and named properly. They always come in combined, and named the same name as the file.
3. Lastly, I tried the same test with going to and from Silo, and when I try to bring in the Silo obj, if I have the "Divide into meshes by poly groups" selected, I get an "unsupported file format" error. If I don't have that check-box selected, it comes in combined and renamed.
Oh, I also tried using the Collada format just to see how it worked, and when I brough my model into VW, it came in all triangulated (displaying the interior poly edge)and as one combined object.
I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or what. In order use VW properly, I NEED to have all of the objects, and their names, stay intact. Whether I use OBJ or Collada, it doesn't matter.
Thanks in advance for your help!
-ShaneO (3DToons)
Easiest, and only way that I found that works currently is to use the vertex mode -> Create / Insert, and then also you have to make sure you have either a plane or a box or some object to specify as the object to attach the new polys / faces to... The edge mode -> Retopo tool used to work, but for some reason it now refuses to create polys with new verts in space... Although, I have settled for the Vertex create / insert tool.. It works quite well, with tweaking, just make sure to turn off all snapping options as this can make for some confusing and aggravating problems, wierd things like when trying to move / tweak any verts it going haywire snapping or even moving completely in the wrong direction.. took me a while to realize what was going on.. Now that I figured this out, and followed the tutorials built in for creation of the truck, I'm good to go... BTW: ISTONIA!!! Thank you very much, for making the poly creation work, at least you can do it from the vertex menu now.. I am very appreciative and happy now, and will be even more happy when / if you make it also work from other tools such as retopo tool, like other apps work where you can just draw out new polys in any order you want, even creating new verts in space or using the ones already there.. Now, I know how it is supposed to work, with verts you already inserted into space, but I noticed there is no way to make this work also, as I tried to insert verts in space, and the app complains with an error message saying it can't create verts in space, they must be connected or something to at least one object or something in the scene..
I will make some videos now that I can use / create what I want inside voidworld, its time to knock out the rest of my models for my game I'm working on for multi-portables aka android / ios devices / pandora / gp2x wiz / netbooks / windows / linux / mac devices... First using GLBasic 10, then when AGK comes out from TGC, will port alot of it over to that system for C/C++ Compiling in tier 2..
Umm I will also make some videos showing how the poly and retopo tools work in Silo since this is the best example I can think of as the easiest method for doing this type of poly modeling.. though I also am a big huge fan of MetaSequoia also now, as for poly modeling / creation in 3D View and tweaking on the fly without need to change tools.. I Will make demos showing modeling examples in both silo / meta and then show VW issues on same model situation..
But IStonia, congrats, on an awesome application, I can now do just about everything I want too inside VW, and have NO Need to switch back to Silo.. I am also a big fan of the interface now, and hotkeys / mouse combinations, and the context help / menus are now exactly the way I envisioned them.. Very very very good work! I'm glad we finally got someone cranking out updates and making a product that we all can use, in the same type of manner Andy works on cranking out updates with 3DCoat, as 3DC is also my favorite texture painting / sculpting app, this is the perfect workflow: VW -> Sculptris / CB Model Pro(Sculpting also) -> VW (tweaking) -> 3DCoat -> Character Shop / Messiah Pro v5 for Animation -> Game Engine viola' !!!!
AwesomeNess!
Ciao' 4 Now, I'll B Back later with some of the videos if someone else doesn't beat me too it first.. memag I also agree all of the Silo Users need to be here.. Now that I have all of my menus docked on top of each other with tabs at the bottom to switch between all of the different menus, it is perfect setup kind of like Fragmotion 3D only much nicer interface / tools..
How bout some tabs Kun if possible? Rite now some settings are 'chopped'. I know you can customize em, but new users will find intimidated.
I also find the buttons are inconsistent in term of looks. Also when scrolling in the visual tools, is it possible to have 'live scroll' or how to say... when you drag the scroll bar it automatically follow instead of showing update on click release.
memag: I have improved the 'Select Polygons Inside Selected Edges' feature. I found it difficult to understand the 'Restore Last Selection' bacause I don't know in what cases people will use it. Can you explain more? so I can know when the selection can be snap shot and how it can be restored.
storm3: Thanks for all the good words as well as those bad words if any. The polygon creation tool in Retopo tool will be improved in the next update.
elte: Can you organize the docking in the way they should be at startup and give me a screen shot so I can make it as default setting? Thanks.
Replies
Fist off thanks for sharing this!
I can't seem to load it in win7 64 bit, I've installed NET1.1 32 bit but it's still a no go. Anyone have a solution?
IS there a Silo's "orient tool" or equivalent in VW ?
Cheers!
edit:
I am being moderated so it takes time to process my posts.So I'll have to edit past comments.
I got it working by downloading msvcr71.dll, here is the link to instalation guide and download links for quick reference in future problems with win7 64 bit.
GET THE DAMN DLL NOW!
I also found extrude with polys controlled by mouse cursor position does something similar to "orient" but it's really unusable since the sensitivity is too great and polys fly around when working in perspective.Is there mild version of "mouse controlled poly extrusion"?
What I disliked the most is "choppiness" of display when interacting, but that could be my win7 64bit system or graphics/drivers.Sometimes tools don't react when working with subdivision. Also dragging mouse to change values, sometimes has no effect and is unpredictable.That might be graphic driver issue, I can't tell for the time being.
Other than that, I am hooked!
First off, this is wonderful piece! Very powerful tools and workflow.
With a bit of time to set it up, speeds like Silo + dozen of goodies.
I found the equivalent of Silo "orient tool", much like poly extrude with cursor control,but this extrusion ( polygon extrusion-cursor only )is somewhat hard to control in perspective view, is there any easing/tension parameter for this?
Also I encountered tool hick ups and simply not carnying out the tool/command when working in subdivision (even lvl 1).I will take note when it happens as I can recall when it exactly happens.
Viewport interaction seems a bit "choppy", it doesn't flow nicely, maybe it's my driver.
Seems like it uses a lot of resources.
I think it would be better to polish the program as it is, than to throw in bunch of new tools. Interaction needs to be solid, and installation effortless.Or maybe not, how ever you imagined it.
Really happy to see it grow like a mountain over a short period of time!
UI is MUCH better now.
Thanks for sharing!
i really need to get this working since i got a persnal project on the go that i was doing all in VW and it is all saved and vws.
this is what it spits out when it crashes.
I believe Istonia is currently working on improving the viewport.
I have found loads of inconsistencies with the way tools work on subdivided meshes. I've tried to post them when I discover them so perhaps you could do the same.
I remember you from the Silo boards I think, good to see you giving VW a shot. I'm hooked too and it feels like the good ol days when Feed & Jamchild worked closely with the users.
No problem with the "orient tool", it would be nice addition if there was some, but no big deal.
I'll stick with cursor extrusion.
Great, the program is already packed but choppy interaction is only thing that seems "misplaced" there.
I will also report on when do these hick-ups happen.
Yeah , I WAS on Silo forums.I was blocked for criticizing (a bit harshly, I admit) their indifference.
I found Nevercenter irresponsibility and lack of interaction with users a bit nonprofessional.
Guess they lost a lot of (future) customers, but whatever rows their boat.
Feed made a post few weeks ago, so you can read the pale explanation of Silos past and future.
I'm glad I stumbled again on VW as it seems it came a long way since the birth.
And frankly it is already a pleasant experience.
I'll try to contribute with bug reports/splash screens and logos, if time allows me to do so.
Stay well ghib. Cheers all!
and i aggree with your remarks about silo and NC, i still use silo from time to time, but with how it is being handled by NC i wouldn't ever recommend it to anyone looking for a new modler, at best now i would tell someone to try the trial to learn about how tool interaction works in it , than apply that to maya, modo, or VW
As long as there are just words from NC and no actual updates for years, the death remains. Pixologic development model is something completely different.
I think VW will be a quite substantial "update" to Silo.
Edit > Options > Set Number of Processors. It's better to set it one or two less than the number of available processors for windows background running programs.
Can you explain more about the Orient tool? How it hehave and why you can benefit from it?
Oh yes, it improved the interaction drastically.Thank you!
I am afraid I don't have Silo currently installed so I can't make a video demo.
Basically Orient Tool behaves like VW extrude with cursor control BUT it orients the polygon NORMAL to position of it's nearest parallel polygon center (or average-center of those 4 edges). That makes it's movement much more comfortable and controllable.
Extrude with cursor control, it seems, doesn't orient (point it's poly normal) to it's initial position. But this rotation is happening around arbitrary point somewhere between current and initial position plus some offset in space, which makes it harder to predict and control. Also Orient Tool doesn't do extrusion, only the orientation part, so it's good for tweaking.
It doesn't have to be a separate tool (or anything at all for that matter),
but improved VW extrude with cursor control. I think it would be much more useful than the current tool behavior.
The benefit is easy and quick blocking out of form(with extrude), especially for limbs and organic stuff.
It eliminates need for additional rotation operation.
Hope you understood me.
Thanks for asking and listening!
best
edit: here's a way better explanation
and Video of orient tool in action
Make a sphere or cylinder, give it one subD level (`),
hover over the horizontal edge to highlight it, do an "edge loop cut/slide".
It doesn't display the cutting but highlights the polygon loop where the cut will go.
Can anyone verify?
The request is:
If it not three can we have the option to pick faces of points and have a similar option to pick stride to allow alternating selections? hope that made sense.
Also I noticed there is no option to extrude edges.
eg:
In drawing the sprocket I drew a N-Polygon with 20 sides to pretty much create a circle, I then wanted to extrude the outer edge inwards so I could create a hole in the middle.
Is that option there ? if not, can we have one ?
You could extrude it along the face,select the inner edge loop,slide it,then delete the inner polygons to create the hole.
Simple way would be to double click (full grow) any polygon, do inset polygon, delete the inner part.
I also agree totally about VW being a substantial update to Silo! It is an awesome Modeler already w tons of good features, it just takes some time how to do things u do in other apps the correct way in VW.. but it can b done, this app is only getting better each update, thanx to patience and helpful feedback from users.. more important easy to use updates are coming just stay tuned, b patient n helpful not counter productive, like help others w shortcuts or things I've learned an ex way to do in VW... I'm wanting these users to b helpful to each other, help Istonia to make VW an awesome product like 3dcoat is... and I know it is headed this way. Like I mentioned the ex mouse setup for polygon work in metasequoia, where u can add polystyrene and tweak Bert's edges n polystyrene all and move rotate or zoom w/o need to stop n click other buttons or hotkeys... Hope u guys continue to help out with VW... as I'm hooked, I love where were going...
thanks 4 listening...
Ciao 4 now,
storm3 aka Ken
Hey memag,
Thanks for the tip, I never noticed the extrude function when I selected the edges.
I have now done the sprocket, needs a bit more work to look like it is supposed to.
Is there a function in VW similar to the Full Grow function where you can choose to pick alternate Faces or Points similar that you can do with edges, that allows you to pick a number the same as in the edges option ?
Here is complete description. Power of the double click workflow.
G'day memag,
Thanks again for your help (I feel so inadequate
I got the Whole Shell and the Range Loop sussed out a little, but cannot recreate the middle and right hand spheres, I don;t know how to get the selection to miss a row or 2 or whatever I choose.
Am I right in assuming this method doesn't work with vertices ?
Also I tried this method on an N-Polygon and it didn't work either.
I am off to give the help file a good going over.
Again, thanks for your help.
If you have a mind to, please feel free to do a little video tut :poly136:
[ame]
2) Hover over desired poly in the loop to highlight it, press and hold MMB and click with LMB. That will do a gap expand selection. If you do the LMB click/hold and MMB click, you'll have a range expand. It is in the manual.
It's easier with polys, edges have rings so it might be a bit confusing.
You always start with MMB if you are doing a gap (and ring operations), and LMB for everything else.
IStonia, thanks for the info about the Retopo tool, never played with it in VW... This helped out majorly.. Now I don't even need the Add Poly tool... Also, while in ReTopo, I noticed the interface does react just like I was mentioning about MetaSequoia.. Boy do I feel like an idiot now.. Doh! IStonia, just keep on doing what your doing.. and ignore us idiots that don't know how to look for alternative ways to do things in the app.. hehehe... Oh man, now I can get down to business on my models for the game we are working on..
Thanks again IStonia, for yer patience...
Ciao' 4 Now,
StOrM3
PS. VW just took over Silo's spot in my toolset.. Permanently..
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-july-29-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* Some progress in performance improvement. There are still lots of work to do, it is an on going process.
* Top menus have been made contextual.
* Toolbar has been modified. You need to do Views > Toobars > Reset.
* Views > Windows > Scene Info Window. You need to do Views > Windows > Reset.
* Edit > Customize Tools > Export To Text File. Some people may like to print out the hotkey list for better memorizing.
* Edit > Options > Polygon Cursor Control Extrusion Options > Half Orient. memag : This is the option you need for extrude+orient. Also polygon H+MMB is the orient tool you asked for originally.
Thanks!
storm3: Glad to know that the Retopo tool fits your workflow!
You must have fallen in the barrel of awesome intelligence when you were born.
Thanks!
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-july-30-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* One bug found and fixed. In previous update, if try to extrude edges that connect to two polygons, it will crash.
Thanks!
memag: I wish i were that lucky!
Why don't u just make it a release once the code is rewritten? It's 'beta' now and I hope once you release it, will get publication and more ppl will use it, thus feedback and comments will pour in. Just like sculptris.
Anyway, my respect and salute to you for keeping faith on this app.
*update: I experienced viewport slowdown when setting the pivot to manual and move them.
I should be so lucky, lucky, lucky ,lucky...(Kylie Minogue)
edit:
Kun, is it possible to make soft selection grow/flow ALONG the geometry surface (based on edge distance),
not expand in sphere influence manner?
What I mean is, for example, you select fingernail and want to soft select the whole finger,
BUT so that neighbor finger points (which are in near proximity) doesn't get affected by the influence sphere.
It's called "consider neighborhood" in XSI and "surface" option in Silo.
Here is a quote from Softimage and Silo wiki.
Consider Neighborhood
Provides further control over which components are affected by considering the adjacency of affected components, in addition to their distance from the components that are being directly manipulated:
If it is off, all components within the Distance Limit are affected.
If it is on, a component within the Distance Limit is not affected if it is not adjacent to components that are being directly manipulated, nor adjacent to other affected components.
This option is particularly useful when working on objects that curve back on themselves.
There are two types of soft selection -- Surface, and Spherical. Spherical is based purely on distance from the manipulator. Surface is based on distance across the surface from the nearest selected point. An object with folds, for example, may have points which are very close with Spherical falloff, but much farther away with Surface falloff.
I think it would be a valuable addition to soft selection option menu.
Also, is it possible that "orient tool" (polygon local move -cursor direction) affects the soft selection as well,
not just active polygon? Something like tweak move/rotate.
Thank you for listening.
Hope I don't bother you too much.
Cheers!
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-july-31-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* Edit > Options > Soft Selection Options > Surface.
* polygon H+MMB tool works with soft selection.
Thanks!
elte: Thanks for the suggestion! I will think about it.
I couldn't reproduce the problem.
memag: I didn't realize you have been bothering me. That's good. Keep doing and don't stop.
One might try to even leave the Sub-Menus for "Commands" and "Tools" away so that one does see everything on Top Level (I frankly have difficulties to understand the distinction between "Commands" and "Tools" anyway...
If you think this Separation should stay - might a Separator in the Menu suffice?
Sure, the Menu gets longer this way.
I currently don't have a lot time to test but I'll be back.
Cheers!
it seems that when two non adjacent (and sometimes adjacent) polys are selected, with soft selection on, orient tool (poly normal-cursor) only affects selected polygons, not the soft selection.
It works fine with one poly and sometimes with adjacent polys,as far as I can tell.
This is the situation in which orient tool (move poly normal -cursor) doesn't affect s.selection and only manipulates those two polys.
Also, is it possible that soft selection setting (surface/spherical) is saved when closing program? It looks like "spherical" is the default one.
Eventually, to make menu buttons to save/load (import/export) all program settings (shortcuts,preferences,streamline),from one main file (Silo like)and to read it on start up.
This is merely a thought.
What would be good as well, for the ones who don't use wheel ZOOM at all, if the default "ZOOM on mouse wheel" can be re-mapped to soft selection falloff, or compromise with ZOOM when cursor is in 3d space, and s.sel falloff when hovering over the object? I looked for it, but couldn't find it in shortcut settings. It this case SHIFT + wheel could be mapped to soft selection bias, bulging or pinching the profile curve.
Enough suggestions for now.
Big Thanks!
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-aug-1-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* Top menus reorganized.
* Orient tool softselection behaviour improved on multi selection.
* The app remember the softselection style on shut down.
Thanks!
memag: All the setting files are stored in your user Documents folder > Digitalfossils > VoidWorld.
You can scroll MMB to adjust soft selection in a few streamline tools: Tweak, Normal Move and now Polygon Local Move. Once the hotkey is down, move the cursor over an object, if soft selection is on, you should see the soft selection cage. For Polygon Local Move tool, to enable the visible of the cage, do this: Edit > Custom StreamLine tools > select the Polygon Local Move tool and remove its NMB tool bacaus once this tool is activated it will hide the soft selection cage. I have removed this NMB tool in the default setting in this update.
You don't have to do these speedy updates, however.
Makes me feel like a spoiled brat.
ya and when he replies he will be all modest about it too.
come on IStonia you deserve all the praise your getting for the updates and more.
passerby: Thanks for praising. I feel more energetic now.
Your a silo user right? I'm rogerknightly over on those boards.
Damn, it seems my "brat" reputation is following me around.
Yep, I was a frequent on Silo forum. Not so much these days/years.
Cheers rogerknightly!
Don't be surprised this topic is the gathering point of ol'silo users. I was a frequent there too till they banned me definetely for making fun of their silence and own contradictions.
[ame="
Actually it's quite reasonable that Silo users are here.
I forgot to mention I was banned for criticizing NC, as well.
I was a customer and I am not a bad person.
Silo is great, but VW is better IMHO.
Just a bit more performance and subD polishing.
Don't get lazy now Istonia!
edit:
- relax selection has a hard time transfering itself , when in symmetry mode. But it snaps as soon as you do another operation.Sort of a refresh issue.
- If I have non-orthodox edge selection,I can't get "polygons in selected edges" to perform as I think it would. Here is an example of the "problem".
Neat trick is to change component to vertex and then to polygon, and then I have all the polys selected, but sometimes some adjacent ones get selected too. Can you check this out Istonia and maybe make it somehow easier to convert/select, if it's possible at all?
- In case that subcomponent conversions work easier, would it be possible if VW remembered last sub-component selection for every type (point,edge,poly), not just change it at current location?
here's explanation from XSI guide:
"Selecting a component filter restores the last-selected components of that type on the active objects. For example, if you select the Point filter, the most recently selected points on the active objects are automatically selected and highlighted."
- Also what i found interesting is multi component selection (holding SHIFT while clicking the subcomponent filter):
"To select two or more types of components at the same time, first select some components of one type and then press the Shift key while changing filters. The components you have already selected are not removed from the selection."
- Then what would be neat with edge extrusion is, if the edge isn't border edge (open),
to first do a chamfer-refine operation, select the middle (initial) edge and move it (normal or cursor) depending on extrusion type. Like this:
Thanks!
Can't seem to wrap my mind around retopo and poly tool, even though I read the manual.
Can anyone give me a push? Thanks.
One more thing, about symmetry. I noticed when I have defined preferred "center seam" I can select components just fine (or at least highlighting works as it should), but as soon as I do a manipulation of geometry it snaps to world X,Y,Z symmetry plane (whichever is defined in options).
Seam calculation from edge-
Symmetry created-
Highlighting/selection of component-
Manipulation and world planes symmetry-
What would be nice is for symmetry to work from picked "center seam", and define it's local mirroring plane from there, and not snap the center seam to world axis. Perhaps make "don't snap to world axis when creating symmetry" option?
Like this:
Seam calculation-
Highlighting of component-
Manipulation and symmetry at work-
Thanks.
2.Option 1: Goto vertex mode, D+LMB, click-click-click then click the first clicked point.
Option 2: Goto edge mode and open Retopo tool, click-click-click then click the first clicked point.
Note: When trying to create a new vertex, the app needs to know which mesh it sould belong to. If there is only one mesh in the scene, there should be no problem. If there are multi meshes in the scene, make sure only one object is selected and only one mesh of that object is not hidden and freezed.
Edit: Can't see symmetry problem pics.
VW-
Silo-
Are you familiar with (awesome) Silo surface tool?
It's basicaly what you're doing with SHIFT and edge dragging in "retopo",or should I say combination of all retopo and poly creation tools.
But it has edge orientation while dragging out (like you did for poly extrusion -half orient),
youcan snap to other polygons, if you hold the mouse button while snapping and dragg yuo define end vertex in space, you can bridge edges, scale the dragged edge if you hold mouse button and drag,
if clicked on the polygon and you start to drag you create polygon strip of the approximately same size as initial polygon, click and drag a component- tweak it...
Here's a video of first surface tool, when it didn't have edge scaling feature (holding mouse button and dragging while finishing the end edge):
http://www.silo3d.com/users/Feed/files/surfacetoolpreview.mov
http://www.nevercenter.com/wiki/index.php?title=Surface_Tool
*In VW, symmetry plane is always defined to one of the three mesh's axisplane. You can't change it.
*I did the retopo tool long time ago with little sense of workflow. I will improve it a little.
Okay.
Thanks Istonia.
I was recently directed to this thread (and amazing program) by a friend of mine yesterday, and I have to say, it made my day!! IStonia you are a mastermind!!! I'm a long time power-Silo user. I'm also a full time Maya guy. Before that I was a Max guy, and before that, I used NENDO, so I know my modelers. I've been working in games for 14 years... wow that makes me old. Long story short, I'm always looking for ways to speed up my process.
Often times, us modelers sit around joking "I wish all of the modeling package developers would get in a room, and come up with ONE solid modeler to rule them ALL!" IStonia, it looks like you heard us! So I thank you from the deepest part of my soul for taking on such an enormous task, and doing a fantastic job at that.
I took half a day yesterday to read through the entire 46 pages of this thread, and I'm amazed by the way you listen to what people are saying, and either implement it right away, telling them how to do it, or why there's a better way. Quite a 180 degree turn from where the Silo support sits now. "Sigh", I know they used to be that way. And I've been sad for a long time that they just let it go. It reminds me of training up an Olympic hopeful, and just leaving him on his own because another Olympic hopeful showed more promise (iPhone Apps). Sad. Not to gush any longer, but thank you for picking up the torch and running with it!
All that being said, I'll do what I can to help make the software even better, starting with the OBJ import and export between VoidWorld, Silo, and Maya. I realize you didn't write the obj file format, and that there's only so much you can do. At the moment, I have several models that I have built in Silo, that I would like to finish off with VW, then bring them into Maya to render. So far I've had strange results with mesh objects getting renamed, and combined.
I did a few import/export tests and here is a simple test for you to try.
1. I made two basic boxed in VW, then exported them as an OBJ with "Regroup polygons by meshes" selected in the Format Options. I brought them into both Silo and Maya just fine, perfect! (They came in combined and re-named if I didn't have that option checked, I think it should be checked by default).
2. I exported the same boxes out of Maya as an obj, and tried to import them back into VW. For some reason, no matter what check-boxes in the file format properties I have selected, I can't seem to bring the boxes in separated and named properly. They always come in combined, and named the same name as the file.
3. Lastly, I tried the same test with going to and from Silo, and when I try to bring in the Silo obj, if I have the "Divide into meshes by poly groups" selected, I get an "unsupported file format" error. If I don't have that check-box selected, it comes in combined and renamed.
Oh, I also tried using the Collada format just to see how it worked, and when I brough my model into VW, it came in all triangulated (displaying the interior poly edge)and as one combined object.
I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or what. In order use VW properly, I NEED to have all of the objects, and their names, stay intact. Whether I use OBJ or Collada, it doesn't matter.
Thanks in advance for your help!
-ShaneO (3DToons)
Easiest, and only way that I found that works currently is to use the vertex mode -> Create / Insert, and then also you have to make sure you have either a plane or a box or some object to specify as the object to attach the new polys / faces to... The edge mode -> Retopo tool used to work, but for some reason it now refuses to create polys with new verts in space... Although, I have settled for the Vertex create / insert tool.. It works quite well, with tweaking, just make sure to turn off all snapping options as this can make for some confusing and aggravating problems, wierd things like when trying to move / tweak any verts it going haywire snapping or even moving completely in the wrong direction.. took me a while to realize what was going on.. Now that I figured this out, and followed the tutorials built in for creation of the truck, I'm good to go... BTW: ISTONIA!!! Thank you very much, for making the poly creation work, at least you can do it from the vertex menu now.. I am very appreciative and happy now, and will be even more happy when / if you make it also work from other tools such as retopo tool, like other apps work where you can just draw out new polys in any order you want, even creating new verts in space or using the ones already there.. Now, I know how it is supposed to work, with verts you already inserted into space, but I noticed there is no way to make this work also, as I tried to insert verts in space, and the app complains with an error message saying it can't create verts in space, they must be connected or something to at least one object or something in the scene..
I will make some videos now that I can use / create what I want inside voidworld, its time to knock out the rest of my models for my game I'm working on for multi-portables aka android / ios devices / pandora / gp2x wiz / netbooks / windows / linux / mac devices... First using GLBasic 10, then when AGK comes out from TGC, will port alot of it over to that system for C/C++ Compiling in tier 2..
Umm I will also make some videos showing how the poly and retopo tools work in Silo since this is the best example I can think of as the easiest method for doing this type of poly modeling.. though I also am a big huge fan of MetaSequoia also now, as for poly modeling / creation in 3D View and tweaking on the fly without need to change tools.. I Will make demos showing modeling examples in both silo / meta and then show VW issues on same model situation..
But IStonia, congrats, on an awesome application, I can now do just about everything I want too inside VW, and have NO Need to switch back to Silo.. I am also a big fan of the interface now, and hotkeys / mouse combinations, and the context help / menus are now exactly the way I envisioned them.. Very very very good work! I'm glad we finally got someone cranking out updates and making a product that we all can use, in the same type of manner Andy works on cranking out updates with 3DCoat, as 3DC is also my favorite texture painting / sculpting app, this is the perfect workflow: VW -> Sculptris / CB Model Pro(Sculpting also) -> VW (tweaking) -> 3DCoat -> Character Shop / Messiah Pro v5 for Animation -> Game Engine viola' !!!!
AwesomeNess!
Ciao' 4 Now, I'll B Back later with some of the videos if someone else doesn't beat me too it first.. memag I also agree all of the Silo Users need to be here.. Now that I have all of my menus docked on top of each other with tabs at the bottom to switch between all of the different menus, it is perfect setup kind of like Fragmotion 3D only much nicer interface / tools..
Congrats!
I also find the buttons are inconsistent in term of looks. Also when scrolling in the visual tools, is it possible to have 'live scroll' or how to say... when you drag the scroll bar it automatically follow instead of showing update on click release.
storm3: Thanks for all the good words as well as those bad words if any. The polygon creation tool in Retopo tool will be improved in the next update.
elte: Can you organize the docking in the way they should be at startup and give me a screen shot so I can make it as default setting? Thanks.