memag: I have improved the 'Select Polygons Inside Selected Edges' feature. I found it difficult to understand the 'Restore Last Selection' bacause I don't know in what cases people will use it. Can you explain more? so I can know when the selection can be snap shot and how it can be restored.
Istonia,
remembering and auto-restoring last selected component would be good in cases of editing across the object with different filters. For example if you worked with vertex/points on eye geometry and you are working with edges on lips, and you want to work some more on the eye, you simply change the filter, and don't have to re-select or load the saved selection.
Example of benefit over current method,
if you have selection like this-
and you changed to point filter (perhaps edit it a bit)-
then switched to edge filter (for some reason)-
and returnd to poly filter, the selection is not the same any more, it has grown-
I guess current behavior is good but in some cases it will change(grow) the selection or make it unsuitable for edit.
In order to avoid this you could benefit from recalling last component selection, and simple conversion if needed.
Another example,
if you had this selection-
and you switched to edge filter and added two more to selection (upper two)-
then you wanted to go back to poly and edit something, this happens-
and you can't edit it at all.
So there are situations where remembering/restoring last component selection and conversion operations would be much better, cleaner and more predictable.
Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
Do you have an idea or plan to solve closed edge extrusion?
I don't know if people use the current one and for what?
I imagine such edges would make UV-ing and subD a living hell.
Again, only my opinion and doesn't have to be taken seriously.
Thanks for improving edge->poly conversion Istonia!
edit: can you make "half orient" option for edge extrusion as well (or make no orient/half/full orient option for both edge/poly)? No need if you're thinking of implementing it in retopo tool workflow, though.
Man its really great app. Would be cool if You could implement those arrows (spinners ?) next to coordinates. Not only could you move object by dragging those but so you could zero out the values by right clicking on them. Max uses those mechanics and those are really usefull. Next thing I found annoying was that when I was marking seems in UVW each time i wanted to go back to editing in viewport (previously messing with other windows for example) I had to click lmb in the viewport. It is erasing my seems on which I was working though. I hope you know what I mean. For now I'm really impressed.
memap: Thanks for explaining. Now I think I understand.
I do have the idea and plan to make the closed edge extrusion style that you suggested. I will give it an option as I think the current style may be usefull in some cases. The extrusion actually dosn't connect to the original mesh topologically, so you can use this to create a special shape from the existing mesh.
I am currently doing the edge orient tool. The orient option will apply to both standard edge extrusion tool and the retopo edge extrusion tool.
MrOneTwo: Thanks for jamming in. xX***Xx suggested two Max tricks long ago. 1. Right click control spinner to reset input values. 2. Right click in viewport to cancel current operation (Some operations use RMB so Escap key can be used instead). I think I have implemented them. If any happens to be left out, please let me know which.
The viewport LMB click is used to clear selections. If you use RMB to focuse viewport, should that be alright?
Well you never know , so it's better to have all the options in the package, right.
Yes, I think orient for the edge/retopo is killer for organic stuff.
Thank you Istonia for listening.
I noticed that when you click on object it doesnt remove seems you are making (even with lmb; if you click somewhere else in viewport it does clear selected seems; rmb as you suggested works even when you right click in viewport but not on object). You said you implemented zeroing values with rmb on spinners... but there are no spinners ;] Is there possibility to have hot key for only view radial menu ? Probably will create hot keys for everything else. Would be easier to get to views not going through main radial menu. Maybe just creating hot keys for each radial ?
PS: is there a way to select backfaces too ?
PS2: just looked at what StreamLine Tools can do... you are genius... I'm sorry if someone asked you but as you see I'm late to the party ;] : how many people are making this app ? and how long did it took ?
I changed viewport navigation for the 3ds maxs. Panning for mmb. Changed in options so lmb works like mmb so it selects back faces but is there a possibility to toggle it with a button ?
There is only One Developer, IStonia, and yes many others have offered their help, like me, and other programmers, but he is doing awesome, so no need for him to bring others up to speed.. he is moving through the code really fast.. Longest updated was like 2 weeks..
Yeah but how ?:D I mean compare this software to 3ds max ? I know max is complete package but still people creating 3ds have so much experience and still their struggle compared to what can be seen here is laughable (in modelling departament). I use mmb for panning, ctrl + alt + mmb to zoom and alt + mmb to rotate ;p Hate having different viewport navigation in different apps.
Comparison with 3dsmax is somehow redundant.
You can compare it to specialized software like 3dcoat,Nendo,Wings,Metasequia, Modo or Silo.
Then again every has it's flaws and benefits over the others.
In the end it comes to user preference.
Isn't it easier to use just ALT and mouse buttons to navigate,
and have as much default shortcuts as possible?
And it will be easier if, somewhere in the future, you'll work with Maya, Softimage etc.
Yeah comparisons are bad etc but still... much modelling in 3ds max and then I start this little app and have my mind blown. Maybe my mind was just too small to stay cool and not excited... ;]
Its not easier If you spent few years with specific navigation. Default shortcuts ? As someone here said once: people who use default hotkeys should change hobby ;] Ofc don't feel offended its a joke but for me its really important to have custom hot keys. Even if default are good, customized can always do better. If your hot keys are logical you can even don't remember a hot key and still use the right one. For example simple thing like delete and remove - delete ? no way. Too far for the hand. My life became about 5% better when I remapped those functions to X key.
I switched from Max some years ago, don't ask me why.
I also use custom shortcuts, but I left selection work like Silo as I am used to it.
I find it much easier on the hand to use less keyboard and more mouse/pen.YMMW.
Once you get used to ALT, it really is imho the way to go, I've just kind of gotten used to it from Silo, and Frag, Etc.. My guess is, by being really organized and using C#.. By being organized and adding the menu / flyovers and instant help stuff in first, and setting up streamline tools first it enabled him to just add other stuff, to the tools as it was finished, or even to combine tools and assign them shortcut keys.. Also, he was sure to insert the 3dcoat applinks connection in from the start, a very very smart move! Once all the code was organized and main features was in, it was a matter of keeping users suggestions, requests in an organized list of importance, and how difficult they were vs how important to the scheme it was.. I noticed this from some of his early howto videos for VW on YouTube, it showed someone with a list going through suggestions one at a time, and how to make them possible with hotkeys, and showing alt ways to do it inside VW..
Other than that, he is just really really talented.. I know I have written apps almost as complicated, but not quite as much, and it was a pain to add new features, etc.. because of not staying organized from the start, and just throwing in user suggestions, without being sure to stay organized, and follow a set of rules.. Once it was done, a user would suggest something and I would just hack it in.. not a good plan, for large projects.. I have since learned alot about coding styles / standards, and how to lay a good foundation first..
Hope this helps, at least clear some of it up, for more info, IStonia will have to speak up..
Ciao' 4 Now,
StOrM3
PS. I agree, I would never go back to modeling with a mouse, since getting my P-Active LCD Tablet Monitor!!! Love drawing / painting right on the screen.
For me less mouse = better. I have just one question : is there a tool (tried to find it but I think its not there) which cuts like in max. Its hard to describe. I hope pics will help. Main things its that its click outside the mesh to create cutting plane and it cuts only selected faces.
Yeah I know I can get that with plane but its way easier like that. You mean maxs "cut" doesnt cut only selected polies ? coz I showed on pics (i know they aren't the best ;]) that it does (last pic shows red edge).
Alrighty, found another bug, the Select - Through is NOT working as expected.. Example:
If you have a Box Connected to another Box on it's Right Side..
and you click to select through the face on the left, so that you will get the face you clicked on and the face on the other side of that face, directly behind it, it will NOT select the face on the other side on the same box, but if I have the box rotated on angle, so you can see the other box connected on the right side behind it, then when you do a select through it will select the front face you click on, and one of the faces visible on angle on the 2nd box connected, but NOT the face directly behind the one you click on, on the same box.....
This is kind of annoying since it makes tweaking a shape, moving faces around in a larger chunk not easy.. have to do it one face at a time I mean layer wise, you could use soft selection but this only affects the same outside layer, I want to be able to move say I have a box with 3 faces across, and I want to grab the face on the left, and be able to move the whole left face front and back at once, using select through, and the way it is working, it will NOT select it correctly..
Phew that was confusing.. duh.. I need to just make some screen shots.. I thought it would be easier to describe and quicker, but it turned out not to be.. ehehhehe
Yeah I know I can get that with plane but its way easier like that. You mean maxs "cut" doesnt cut only selected polies ? coz I showed on pics (i know they aren't the best ;]) that it does (last pic shows red edge).
No, what I meant is VW cut doesn't take component selection into consideration. I know how Softimage works, if polys are selected it will cut/knife/slice/dice/ through them adn leave the rest untouched, if nothing is selected it will do the operation on all components it intersects.
I think max does the same (maybe not), try cutting without selection.
Maybe make a suggestion for a slice with cursor control to Istonia.
Perhaps "duplicate" and "split" can be merged into one tool ("extract"?), since they are essentially the same. Just make "leave original polygon" option in the operation panel.
Nevermind, I figured it out, since it was working on my laptop for some reason, so I reset all of the tool settings again, and double checked all the prefs etc.. and not sure what it was but I got it working, that was wierd.. for some reason the LMB Paint select while the caps lock key was pressed would select through, but not the locked on -> mmb selecting.. hmmm and I had to hold the caps lock down, or it wouldn't work.. but it's working now..
well in case someone else has similar wierd issues, we can tell them to reset all tools, streamline and the common tools, and double check / reset all settings..
Stuff like this is going to happen after updating to same folder time after time.. so need to do that each time..
Perhaps "duplicate" and "split" can be merged into one tool ("extract"?), since they are essentially the same. Just make "leave original polygon" option in the operation panel.
I disagree, I think there are too many options within each type that merging them would be messy. Unless of course we can create keyboard shortcuts for each type then just give us the options on commit.
I disagree, I think there are too many options within each type that merging them would be messy. Unless of course we can create keyboard shortcuts for each type then just give us the options on commit.
Okay, but I still think they are pretty much the same operator, except duplicate keeps original polygons. On the other hand, I think these "break into" options are a bit intimidating.AFAIC it can always split/duplicate to the same mesh.
I was thinking of something like this, not messy just simplified one operator.
Perhaps like this?
By default it keeps it in the same mesh and deletes original polygons,
"keep original polygons" and "break into:" are additional options.
Here is a model I've been working on today so far so good.. Only the head & Hand left yet to do, and maybe some more tweaking, then finally sculpt / texture inside 3D Coat! I like how it turned out, not bad for around 3-4 Hours work.. I Think I'm finally learning VW and getting a workflow down.. Nice Job IStonia..
Hope you like it, I did a version in Silo first, and this one was completely done in VW, and majority of time it took me, was playing with interface options, and trying different tools to achieve different things.. But, overall, seriously this model turned out better looking than the Silo Version.. Maybe cuz I took more time, to add things like the wrinkles in the pant legs, and actually shaped the body from tweaked polys instead of just making a cube and extruding it.. After this is finished sometime tomorrow, I will do the next model for the game, and this time, setup the camera to record, and do a voice over for it, maybe a little newby tutorial for VW.. Either way, it's looking like a mature modeling app now, and guess what, NOT ONE CRASH!!! Like some other app, SILO crashed at least once every 15 - 20 minutes.. More often towards the end.. soooo annoying.. I'm loving VW more and more all the time!
MrOneTwo: I am confused about the rmb reset thing. Can you provide a pic?
MrOneTwo & memag: In the visual "Slice" tool, you can press down X key then click drag to do quick slicing.
memag: I have 3 reasons may stop you: 1. The 'Split' and 'Duplicate' tools are two common tools across all the object modes. 2. 'Duplcate' and 'Split' are more understandable than 'Extract'. 3. New user may not know there is a default option that he can keep the polygons in same mesh and he may think he has to choose one of the provided options.
storm3: That looks great!!! Would love to see a vid.
Okay, I really need to finish reading the manual.
Great to have cut and slice together.
I understand,I was recalling the tool from Softimage called "extract" which basically had two variations,
extract-keep original polies, extract-delete original polies, and it also worked with edges.
No sweat if you think that was redundant.
Thanks for reading.
-maybe not relevant to workflow but interesting navigation glitch non the less,
if you have zoom tool and you keep moving the mouse up-down to screen edges it will eventually zoom in.
Don't know why I did this but guess I am a hard core tester.
Yeah, I have noticed that ages ago. But it is too extreme so I don't bother to spend time to fix it. It's like going to the edge of the universe then try to look back and find where is the earth.
Kun, before I post the suggested tabs. Is it possible to fix this? What I was expecting is horizontal scroll instead of everything move to bottom.
My second image below is just quick mockup of soft selection being filled into that empty space. Is it me only or do you guys actually play around with the soft selection curve? Unless your model is really high poly, I don't adjust them at all, just sticking with default one.
memag: For context cut with break edges option, if the programe couldn't find any possible cut between selected edges, it will break the selected edges into half. This feature is suggested by Beatkitano.
You can do this to view the tool's description, End key + Modify > Commond Commands > Context Cut(BreakEdges).
elte: The first one is impossible. The second one makes it less flexible for user. If the screen is wide enough, the Manipulation panel will transform into a narrow strip to save space.
I have done some docking organising, you can check it out in the next update.
Summary of changes:
* 'Select Vertex/Polygons in Selected Edges' improved.
* Polygon creation tool in Retopo tool improved. You can click a combination of points and vertices to create polygon
* Edit > Options > Polygon/Edge Cursor Control Extrusion Options >...
* Selections > Restore Last SubobjectSelection. Mode sensitive. Restore last vertex/edge/polygon selection in vertex/edge/polygon mode respectively.
Thanks!
elte: Please check the default docking settings. View > Windows > Reset.
-"polygons in selected edges" doesn't work, however "polygons inside selection" does exactly what it is supposed to.
-"paint select" fails to do edge and vertex selections,by default behavior (LMB) it selects through and gets the back components selected as well. On polygons it is okay.
My mistake. What I have done is 'Polygons inside selected edges'. I can't recall what 'Polygons in selected edges' is for. I will check it out.
Can't find the paint select problem.
But the marquee selection does always select through for vertices and edges. I will fix it.
I think it selects only the polygons that have ALL surrounding edges selected.
Might be useful in some cases, but the names of two methods are very similar, I admit.
"Polygon inside selection" will do it for me in most cases.
Over here paint selection tool does select through, when dealing with edges and vertices.I noticed little dots where backs election and grid intersect in screen space.
Here is the workflow screen layout I have, I think this is the best use of the screenspace...
Hope this helps the guy above "elte" who is complaining about the bar across the bottom.. It kind of bothered me too, thats why I played with the menus figuring out how to get them to go to tab layout on the right side...
it's a near / far clip plane issue.. I've noticed it only inside Perspective 3D view though.. It most likely is the issue with your videocard driver.. Did you set the setting in your driver to have almost everything program controlled?? Like the anti-aliasing ?? I know there were some display problems and stuff inside silo, and they mentioned to setup the videocard settings like this.. I don't have the random dots problem, but I do see the clipping plane visibility showing up in your scene.. It looks to be right on the edge of hiding the polys... I ran into this last night while adjusting model to do some tweaking..
Thank you IStonia, for the positive comments, and awesomely fast updates.. I was wondering if we could put something into the tools menu a button or hotkey that would do the reset on all the tools etc.. so that each time we update we could just hit a key combo to force a refresh of all the things that have changed, windows, docking etc.. this would make testing and ensuring you are not chasing down bugs that really don't exist, but are only a result of one of the features not getting properly refreshed, example: my paint select through not working properly with capslock, until after manually going through and resetting all, manually one toolset at a time, and unchecking various settings etc.. until it worked as it was supposed to, then I also had to fix an issue where the box icons at top of visual tools menu would not display context help, but eventually got that working also..
Nothing too important to warrant immediate attention, just an idea, to ensure we are not reporting bugs that are a result of improper update settings changes, without resetting everything, like a wierd settings conflict bug causing issues..
Hope this helps alot of people.. as when I update, I extract first to its own folder, then copy it all to a Void World Beta 24 folder, to which I have a shortcut on desktop setup too, I know lazy but I do it to ensure I'm using the latest version each time..
No, my issue is mainly with "PAINT SELECT" tool, as it select back edges and vertices no matter what. It is operating fine with polygons (regular and raycast).For some reason it doesn't with edge/vertex. Cull back-facing is a working solution but I'd like to see both sides of geometry. Since there is no issues, as Istonia said, I imagine it is my graphics.All of my settings are the same for all 3d applications.I didn't change nothing, as I recall it worked before.
I've noticed clipping plane. It doesn't bother me at all.
Memag, I use paint select for everything, and have no issue with it selecting back edges / verts when not using the select through option with caps lock on... hmmm I use paint select for everything selection wise.. I don't like the area select stuff.. So not sure what that is.. hmmm
when I do the video you will see me using the paint select tool without this issue.. Now I have had an issue trying to get the select through to work with verts only.. Hmm turn off soft selection.. I have noticed with certain things enabled it causes some tools to not work as expected.. Like if soft select is enabled, when you click on verts / edges on front of an object it will select verts etc.. on backside too...
MrOneTwo: I am confused about the rmb reset thing. Can you provide a pic?
MrOneTwo & memag: In the visual "Slice" tool, you can press down X key then click drag to do quick slicing.
memag: I have 3 reasons may stop you: 1. The 'Split' and 'Duplicate' tools are two common tools across all the object modes. 2. 'Duplcate' and 'Split' are more understandable than 'Extract'. 3. New user may not know there is a default option that he can keep the polygons in same mesh and he may think he has to choose one of the provided options.
storm3: That looks great!!! Would love to see a vid.
Don't bother the reset thing for now. I still didn't test it properly. Still discovering what this app can do and probably will end up as my main modelling program. I need one thing though. Is there a possibility to make a selection streamline tool ? My goal is to make:
lmb = rectangle/lasso/circle depending on ur selection setting
mmb = paint select
mmb without sub-object highlighted = rectangle/lasso/circle selection including backface (the drawback with this technique is unable to rect select when sub-object is highlighted because it will perform paint select instead)
my suggestion is
lmb = stay the same
mmb = stay the same
q+lmb = rectangle selection including backface
q+mmb = paint selection including backface
q+rmb = lasso selection including backface
Summary of changes:
* 'Select Polygons in Selected Edges' bug fixed.
* Ray cast selection bug fixed. memag, I suspect that the paint selection tool you talked about is the brush paint selection tool, default key: X. Right?
* An Instance related bug fixed. That bug will cause the app to crash if there is any instance in the scene and the rendering cull mode is not None.
Thanks!
MrOneTwo & elte: I will try to create selection streamline tools so you can bind them in what ever way you like.
Edit:
memag: That dot thing is VW rendering glitch. View > Floor Settings(Scene Scale) and set the Opacity to 100%.
I use mmb mostly for navigation. Never could get use to selecting with mmb (which sounds silly coz if i can navigate with it why cant i select.. there is slight difference though;]). Thats why my settings deviates from defaults. Thx IStonia ;] that would be awesome.
Summary of changes:
* 'Select Polygons in Selected Edges' bug fixed.
* Ray cast selection bug fixed. memag, I suspect that the paint selection tool you talked about is the brush paint selection tool, default key: X. Right?
* An Instance related bug fixed. That bug will cause the app to crash if there is any instance in the scene and the rendering cull mode is not None.
Thanks!
MrOneTwo & elte: I will try to create selection streamline tools so you can bind them in what ever way you like.
Edit:
memag: That dot thing is VW rendering glitch. View > Floor Settings(Scene Scale) and set the Opacity to 100%.
Yes, was thinking on "paint select" brush tool with actual brush size display,
not the regular drag/paint select working after highlighting geometry.Thanks.
EDIT:
Yes the paint brush is working fine now.Thank you!
As far as "select polygons in selected edges", it will not work in these cases,
which I think it's just fine 'cause "Select polygons inside selection " does work in such selections.
"select polygons in selected edges" will work in cases where we have polygons surrounded by selected edges.
whether "select polygons inside selection" will select all the polygons inside edge borders.
So I don't understand what did you changed in "select polygons in selected edges"?
Did it work different before?
Is it possible to add "select polygons inside selection" to the radial menu shortcuts, I didn't find it, there is only "select polygons in selected edges"?
Also is it possible to make "restore last sub-object selection" work automatically,as an option? Is it hard on memory?
Kun, can the smarttips also appear when we click on the button?
For example, when I select faces and hold a (extrude), the smarttips will appear and show u options u can use with mouse buttons. However those users who are not into hotkeys can also benefit when they click on extrude button in visual tools, the same smarttips would also appear.
By scaling I get this bug: when for example you start scaling 2 verts to line them up and you move cursor right which brings them closer you touch the edge of the monitor which stops cursor. When you get back to monitor center and want to scale again moving cursor right scale suddenly moves verts further from each other.
Replies
Istonia,
remembering and auto-restoring last selected component would be good in cases of editing across the object with different filters. For example if you worked with vertex/points on eye geometry and you are working with edges on lips, and you want to work some more on the eye, you simply change the filter, and don't have to re-select or load the saved selection.
Example of benefit over current method,
if you have selection like this-
and you changed to point filter (perhaps edit it a bit)-
then switched to edge filter (for some reason)-
and returnd to poly filter, the selection is not the same any more, it has grown-
I guess current behavior is good but in some cases it will change(grow) the selection or make it unsuitable for edit.
In order to avoid this you could benefit from recalling last component selection, and simple conversion if needed.
Another example,
if you had this selection-
and you switched to edge filter and added two more to selection (upper two)-
then you wanted to go back to poly and edit something, this happens-
and you can't edit it at all.
So there are situations where remembering/restoring last component selection and conversion operations would be much better, cleaner and more predictable.
Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
Do you have an idea or plan to solve closed edge extrusion?
I don't know if people use the current one and for what?
I imagine such edges would make UV-ing and subD a living hell.
Again, only my opinion and doesn't have to be taken seriously.
Thanks for improving edge->poly conversion Istonia!
edit: can you make "half orient" option for edge extrusion as well (or make no orient/half/full orient option for both edge/poly)? No need if you're thinking of implementing it in retopo tool workflow, though.
I do have the idea and plan to make the closed edge extrusion style that you suggested. I will give it an option as I think the current style may be usefull in some cases. The extrusion actually dosn't connect to the original mesh topologically, so you can use this to create a special shape from the existing mesh.
I am currently doing the edge orient tool. The orient option will apply to both standard edge extrusion tool and the retopo edge extrusion tool.
MrOneTwo: Thanks for jamming in. xX***Xx suggested two Max tricks long ago. 1. Right click control spinner to reset input values. 2. Right click in viewport to cancel current operation (Some operations use RMB so Escap key can be used instead). I think I have implemented them. If any happens to be left out, please let me know which.
The viewport LMB click is used to clear selections. If you use RMB to focuse viewport, should that be alright?
Yes, I think orient for the edge/retopo is killer for organic stuff.
Thank you Istonia for listening.
PS: is there a way to select backfaces too ?
PS2: just looked at what StreamLine Tools can do... you are genius... I'm sorry if someone asked you but as you see I'm late to the party ;] : how many people are making this app ? and how long did it took ?
You can compare it to specialized software like 3dcoat,Nendo,Wings,Metasequia, Modo or Silo.
Then again every has it's flaws and benefits over the others.
In the end it comes to user preference.
Isn't it easier to use just ALT and mouse buttons to navigate,
and have as much default shortcuts as possible?
And it will be easier if, somewhere in the future, you'll work with Maya, Softimage etc.
Its not easier If you spent few years with specific navigation. Default shortcuts ? As someone here said once: people who use default hotkeys should change hobby ;] Ofc don't feel offended its a joke but for me its really important to have custom hot keys. Even if default are good, customized can always do better. If your hot keys are logical you can even don't remember a hot key and still use the right one. For example simple thing like delete and remove - delete ? no way. Too far for the hand. My life became about 5% better when I remapped those functions to X key.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82907 - good read.
Ok sorry for offtop ;]
I also use custom shortcuts, but I left selection work like Silo as I am used to it.
I find it much easier on the hand to use less keyboard and more mouse/pen.YMMW.
Have fun Voiding around!
Other than that, he is just really really talented.. I know I have written apps almost as complicated, but not quite as much, and it was a pain to add new features, etc.. because of not staying organized from the start, and just throwing in user suggestions, without being sure to stay organized, and follow a set of rules.. Once it was done, a user would suggest something and I would just hack it in.. not a good plan, for large projects.. I have since learned alot about coding styles / standards, and how to lay a good foundation first..
Hope this helps, at least clear some of it up, for more info, IStonia will have to speak up..
Ciao' 4 Now,
StOrM3
PS. I agree, I would never go back to modeling with a mouse, since getting my P-Active LCD Tablet Monitor!!! Love drawing / painting right on the screen.
Don't think "cut" recognizes sub-component selection.
If you have a Box Connected to another Box on it's Right Side..
and you click to select through the face on the left, so that you will get the face you clicked on and the face on the other side of that face, directly behind it, it will NOT select the face on the other side on the same box, but if I have the box rotated on angle, so you can see the other box connected on the right side behind it, then when you do a select through it will select the front face you click on, and one of the faces visible on angle on the 2nd box connected, but NOT the face directly behind the one you click on, on the same box.....
This is kind of annoying since it makes tweaking a shape, moving faces around in a larger chunk not easy.. have to do it one face at a time I mean layer wise, you could use soft selection but this only affects the same outside layer, I want to be able to move say I have a box with 3 faces across, and I want to grab the face on the left, and be able to move the whole left face front and back at once, using select through, and the way it is working, it will NOT select it correctly..
Phew that was confusing.. duh.. I need to just make some screen shots.. I thought it would be easier to describe and quicker, but it turned out not to be.. ehehhehe
StOrM3
No, what I meant is VW cut doesn't take component selection into consideration. I know how Softimage works, if polys are selected it will cut/knife/slice/dice/ through them adn leave the rest untouched, if nothing is selected it will do the operation on all components it intersects.
I think max does the same (maybe not), try cutting without selection.
Maybe make a suggestion for a slice with cursor control to Istonia.
well in case someone else has similar wierd issues, we can tell them to reset all tools, streamline and the common tools, and double check / reset all settings..
Stuff like this is going to happen after updating to same folder time after time.. so need to do that each time..
Thanks for everything though,
StOrM3
I disagree, I think there are too many options within each type that merging them would be messy. Unless of course we can create keyboard shortcuts for each type then just give us the options on commit.
Okay, but I still think they are pretty much the same operator, except duplicate keeps original polygons. On the other hand, I think these "break into" options are a bit intimidating.AFAIC it can always split/duplicate to the same mesh.
I was thinking of something like this, not messy just simplified one operator.
What do you think, still messy?
By default it keeps it in the same mesh and deletes original polygons,
"keep original polygons" and "break into:" are additional options.
Just tell me to stop.
Hope you like it, I did a version in Silo first, and this one was completely done in VW, and majority of time it took me, was playing with interface options, and trying different tools to achieve different things.. But, overall, seriously this model turned out better looking than the Silo Version.. Maybe cuz I took more time, to add things like the wrinkles in the pant legs, and actually shaped the body from tweaked polys instead of just making a cube and extruding it.. After this is finished sometime tomorrow, I will do the next model for the game, and this time, setup the camera to record, and do a voice over for it, maybe a little newby tutorial for VW.. Either way, it's looking like a mature modeling app now, and guess what, NOT ONE CRASH!!! Like some other app, SILO crashed at least once every 15 - 20 minutes.. More often towards the end.. soooo annoying.. I'm loving VW more and more all the time!
StOrM3
MrOneTwo & memag: In the visual "Slice" tool, you can press down X key then click drag to do quick slicing.
memag: I have 3 reasons may stop you: 1. The 'Split' and 'Duplicate' tools are two common tools across all the object modes. 2. 'Duplcate' and 'Split' are more understandable than 'Extract'. 3. New user may not know there is a default option that he can keep the polygons in same mesh and he may think he has to choose one of the provided options.
storm3: That looks great!!! Would love to see a vid.
Great to have cut and slice together.
I understand,I was recalling the tool from Softimage called "extract" which basically had two variations,
extract-keep original polies, extract-delete original polies, and it also worked with edges.
No sweat if you think that was redundant.
Thanks for reading.
Stopping....now.
if you have zoom tool and you keep moving the mouse up-down to screen edges it will eventually zoom in.
Don't know why I did this but guess I am a hard core tester.
All is well.
What is a difference between context cut regular and break edges?
My second image below is just quick mockup of soft selection being filled into that empty space. Is it me only or do you guys actually play around with the soft selection curve? Unless your model is really high poly, I don't adjust them at all, just sticking with default one.
You can do this to view the tool's description, End key + Modify > Commond Commands > Context Cut(BreakEdges).
elte: The first one is impossible. The second one makes it less flexible for user. If the screen is wide enough, the Manipulation panel will transform into a narrow strip to save space.
I have done some docking organising, you can check it out in the next update.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-aug-6-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* 'Select Vertex/Polygons in Selected Edges' improved.
* Polygon creation tool in Retopo tool improved. You can click a combination of points and vertices to create polygon
* Edit > Options > Polygon/Edge Cursor Control Extrusion Options >...
* Selections > Restore Last SubobjectSelection. Mode sensitive. Restore last vertex/edge/polygon selection in vertex/edge/polygon mode respectively.
Thanks!
elte: Please check the default docking settings. View > Windows > Reset.
-"polygons in selected edges" doesn't work, however "polygons inside selection" does exactly what it is supposed to.
-"paint select" fails to do edge and vertex selections,by default behavior (LMB) it selects through and gets the back components selected as well. On polygons it is okay.
Thanks.
Can't find the paint select problem.
But the marquee selection does always select through for vertices and edges. I will fix it.
Might be useful in some cases, but the names of two methods are very similar, I admit.
"Polygon inside selection" will do it for me in most cases.
Over here paint selection tool does select through, when dealing with edges and vertices.I noticed little dots where backs election and grid intersect in screen space.
Could it be my graphics driver?
Hope this helps the guy above "elte" who is complaining about the bar across the bottom.. It kind of bothered me too, thats why I played with the menus figuring out how to get them to go to tab layout on the right side...
it's a near / far clip plane issue.. I've noticed it only inside Perspective 3D view though.. It most likely is the issue with your videocard driver.. Did you set the setting in your driver to have almost everything program controlled?? Like the anti-aliasing ?? I know there were some display problems and stuff inside silo, and they mentioned to setup the videocard settings like this.. I don't have the random dots problem, but I do see the clipping plane visibility showing up in your scene.. It looks to be right on the edge of hiding the polys... I ran into this last night while adjusting model to do some tweaking..
Thank you IStonia, for the positive comments, and awesomely fast updates.. I was wondering if we could put something into the tools menu a button or hotkey that would do the reset on all the tools etc.. so that each time we update we could just hit a key combo to force a refresh of all the things that have changed, windows, docking etc.. this would make testing and ensuring you are not chasing down bugs that really don't exist, but are only a result of one of the features not getting properly refreshed, example: my paint select through not working properly with capslock, until after manually going through and resetting all, manually one toolset at a time, and unchecking various settings etc.. until it worked as it was supposed to, then I also had to fix an issue where the box icons at top of visual tools menu would not display context help, but eventually got that working also..
Nothing too important to warrant immediate attention, just an idea, to ensure we are not reporting bugs that are a result of improper update settings changes, without resetting everything, like a wierd settings conflict bug causing issues..
Hope this helps alot of people.. as when I update, I extract first to its own folder, then copy it all to a Void World Beta 24 folder, to which I have a shortcut on desktop setup too, I know lazy but I do it to ensure I'm using the latest version each time..
Thanks for everything IStonia!
StOrM3
I've noticed clipping plane. It doesn't bother me at all.
when I do the video you will see me using the paint select tool without this issue.. Now I have had an issue trying to get the select through to work with verts only.. Hmm turn off soft selection.. I have noticed with certain things enabled it causes some tools to not work as expected.. Like if soft select is enabled, when you click on verts / edges on front of an object it will select verts etc.. on backside too...
StOrM3
Don't bother the reset thing for now. I still didn't test it properly. Still discovering what this app can do and probably will end up as my main modelling program. I need one thing though. Is there a possibility to make a selection streamline tool ? My goal is to make:
- LMB - rectangle selection (including backfaces)
- Q (holding) + LMB - paint selection (including backfaces)
- Q (holding) + MMB - lasso selection (including backfaces)
- Q (holding) + RMB - rectangle selection (without selecting backfaces)
Can I do smth like that now (maybe I just failed at doing so)? If not is it possible in future?
Rite now the selection method work like dis
lmb = rectangle/lasso/circle depending on ur selection setting
mmb = paint select
mmb without sub-object highlighted = rectangle/lasso/circle selection including backface (the drawback with this technique is unable to rect select when sub-object is highlighted because it will perform paint select instead)
my suggestion is
lmb = stay the same
mmb = stay the same
q+lmb = rectangle selection including backface
q+mmb = paint selection including backface
q+rmb = lasso selection including backface
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-aug-6a-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* 'Select Polygons in Selected Edges' bug fixed.
* Ray cast selection bug fixed. memag, I suspect that the paint selection tool you talked about is the brush paint selection tool, default key: X. Right?
* An Instance related bug fixed. That bug will cause the app to crash if there is any instance in the scene and the rendering cull mode is not None.
Thanks!
MrOneTwo & elte: I will try to create selection streamline tools so you can bind them in what ever way you like.
Edit:
memag: That dot thing is VW rendering glitch. View > Floor Settings(Scene Scale) and set the Opacity to 100%.
Yes, was thinking on "paint select" brush tool with actual brush size display,
not the regular drag/paint select working after highlighting geometry.Thanks.
EDIT:
Yes the paint brush is working fine now.Thank you!
As far as "select polygons in selected edges", it will not work in these cases,
which I think it's just fine 'cause "Select polygons inside selection " does work in such selections.
"select polygons in selected edges" will work in cases where we have polygons surrounded by selected edges.
whether "select polygons inside selection" will select all the polygons inside edge borders.
So I don't understand what did you changed in "select polygons in selected edges"?
Did it work different before?
Is it possible to add "select polygons inside selection" to the radial menu shortcuts, I didn't find it, there is only "select polygons in selected edges"?
Also is it possible to make "restore last sub-object selection" work automatically,as an option? Is it hard on memory?
Thanks for reading Kun!
For example, when I select faces and hold a (extrude), the smarttips will appear and show u options u can use with mouse buttons. However those users who are not into hotkeys can also benefit when they click on extrude button in visual tools, the same smarttips would also appear.
I just recalled a great aligning tool which could be very useful for keeping vertices at bay.
Do you think you can reproduce it?
Vector snap
Maybe this one as well?
Snap to plane
Thanks!