Hi, new kid in town here and the reason for this, is the very good 3D application: VoidWorld.
I don't have the time reading the whole thread from start because English is not native and reading all the thread is very tedious for me!
Being a Silo user since 1.4 version (I am just a hobbyist in programming and 3D modeling) I have to admit the VoidWorld is an alternative but still needs some improvements in order to be as user friendly as Silo. Because my home PC is 6 years old I notice that Void World is running slower than Silo in my machine.
Recently I downloaded the 2.4 version but I didn't find where I can skin my model.
Is there any way to disable radial menus @VoidWorld author: keep up the good work!
Calabi:
It seems likely it's the pen problem. The mouse down event didn't fire properly.
I still don't quite get the meaning you talk about those button commands. Maybe just like what you said before, "Artists just say what they mean.".
I did some modeling myself before. Airplane, human character, animal. Although not have professional looking, but not very bad from my own point of view.
Every new workflow invention will always be a risk. It can be surprisingly good like a fresh air. But It can also be rejected by the majority of users.
There are still a lot things needed to put in, I should worry about the future later.
With the way you are making this sort of an open beta. You dont have any risks. Personally I think you should try letting loose with the development.
If you do know some modelling then you could be thinking how you could be making things more efficient. What are the common tools and workflows? Extrude seems to be the most common tool(perhaps)how could I make that faster and more powefull.
Or even how about trying a new modelling workflow. Instead of additive, the opposite, say you build a frame sort of like scaffolding. Look around, theres lots of things a ways you could try, and there are no downsides with the way you are doing it. You can try anything, and its easily reverted if people dont like.
Modo called it Pixar SubD, but I assumed Neil Blevins would be right. Does anyone know where the confusion comes from?
Well - far from an Expert on this myself but as I understand the original Catmull-Clark origins from the End of the Seventies and is not (or no longer) protected. It gets used in most SubD-Modelers, some use their own adaptions or also offer alternative Mesh-Subdivision-Schemes too.
What now gets called Pixar SubD's is a more elaborate method which not only needs less Polygons but also is greatly refined for efficiency in conjunction with Renderman. That kind of optimization for year seems to have been a Job of Edwin Catmull at Pixar. The newer scheme got patented in 2005 if I recall correcly.
is there a way to make extrude edge/verts to work with snap? this would very useful for retopology as there is great vertex extrude..! Check this video
also when snap is turn on, performance will be decrease so much. I know it's because it calculates too many positions, but maybe there is another way to increase performance (please! )
I'm trying to make myself ready to use voidworld in Dominance war V if I can..!
VoidWorld Scene Management
Testing the latest version and I have a few suggestions for improving Scene management.
Voidworld needs to have a permanent scene list of all objects, materials etc. . (let's call it 'Explorer' for the time being)
○We should be allowed to open multiple versions of this explorer and it should retain whatever filters we set, between sessions of VW. (see below for filter explanation)
○ The Explorer should have a filter that can be set to show different things. Objects, Materials, Material IDs, Lights etc etc.
○ It should be dockable to anywhere on the UI, or floating across multiple monitor setups.
○ It should have Item name, Visibility options, hierarchy and other useful information that can be custom set.
This Explorer is really important to be able to quickly navigate around the scene and focus on objects and control groups etc.
Currently, I believe, VoidWorld forces you to enter Polygon mode to access the Material editor. This is not a good way to work.
You should be able to select a material in the Explorer and have any object's polygons highlighted/selected. I have a lot of suggestions on how to make this as streamlined and intuitive as possible but I'll leave it at that unless you're interested in this idea.
The Object List as it is currently implemented is also on a temporary tab which is not ideal.
The 'Explorer' idea would encompass all these things but is versatile enough to cater for every type of list/hierarchy type that you might need in VW for the now and the future.
VoidWorld Pivot
I think the Voidworld Pivot works great but I have a number of ideas for improvement. I like the Saved Transform but it would be useful if we could have a dropdown list of saved transforms and the ability to manage them. Select, Delete etc. It might be cool to also be able to select more than 1 saved transform and have the result of the average.
Temporary Pivot. For on the fly transforms. The Manual setting is great for this but we need to be able to set a hotkey that will set both the Orientation & Position at the same time. I can't think of a reason that you'd need to set them individually. Having individual radio buttons (like you currently have) is perfect though.
I found a bug (or unexpected behaviour, at least) with the axis constraints. When you hold w and drag in an axis's direction it sometimes moves a little bit off-axis before snapping to x/y/z.
Summary of changes:
* Edit > Options > Radial Menu Options > Enabled.
* Crease subdivision is implemented. I use a method I can think of. Hopefully the result is not tool different from the Pixar-style one.
1. Set the object to a subdivision level. Level 3 or more is recommended. The operation will create denser geometry arround the creased area. At level 3 the shape should be ok, at level 4 the shading should be allright.
2. Select the edges to be creased.
3. Under Edge mode, open the 'Crease Subd' button tool.
4. Adjust the crease weight.
ghib: The Scene Explorer could be a good idea, but I don't feel I am ready for that yet.
I will look into the pivot suggestion soon.
The bug you mentioned is fixed.
MightyPea: I can't produce the bug you come across. I also looked into the code but still no clue how it can happen.
omid3098: I can't play the video. Any chance you can convert it to another format like .wmv?
calabi: thanks for the suggestions!
georgio: You may have used VoidWorld 2.3 for the skinning feature before. Since not many people have asked for that feature, so I am not sure I should put it back or not.
In just about every program a simple thing like aligning verts is the most complicated thing, they have to use plugins or scripts or whatever(and their still lame).
Flatten kind of works the same way as well. You dont have to flatten the verts only in the xyz axis you can specify which direction and the plane or subobject to which you want them to flatten.
I'd love to see something like this in another program so that you can align verts in any orientation(not just in the x y z axis) to any other object or plane(even on itself).
What would be even better is if you could say select a load of verts or edges and fire them off towards say a sphere or other complex objects so you could have the reverse relief of the sphere quickly and easily(so its not just conforming to a single plane). Or even do reverse base reliefs of faces or terrain. You could easily conform non uniform surfaces to each other a bit like they were solid.
I can see a problem with that though is if the reference object is smaller than the verts being fired, some of them may end up going off into infinity.
IStonia, Subd creasing on first inspection looks great. Really welcome addition.
Thanks for the bugfix and considering the suggestions. If you're looking into the explorer at some point in the future it might be worth having a look at implementing at a persistent Material editor too. If we're looking even further into the future I'd love to see a node based Mat. Editor, very much like the Softimage Render Tree (it's near perfect imho)
I've spotted a couple more issues.
There's something wrong with Tweak Normal Move, It quite often moves erratically and not along the expected normals.
Steppings Error - If you e.g. Rotate a little then hold Shift by 90 increment the model will end up rotated off the right angle. It should take the initial position/rotation/scale regardless of whether the shift key is held or not to give the expected output. (I can make a video as visual explanation if you need)
Slide Selection still doesn't feel right. The way you have it at the moment, where you can make the subobjects slide based on the direction of mouse movement. This can lead to very messy results when you have complex selections made. especially full edge loops.
see here
An explanation of the video.
At the start I am using the V + MMB Slide Selection tool and you can see that the edges are sliding along seemingly random connected edges. Then I used the Tweak Scale tool to simulate how I'd expect the edges to move. I think maybe that there are becoming too many options for sliding. You currently have :
G - slide vertex (3 versions LMB MMB RMB)
G - slide edges (3 versions)
V + MMB - slide vertex
V + MMB - slide edges
V + MMB - slide polys.
So that's 9 different ways of sliding things and none of which can accurately and predictably slide a selection. I feel that the G tool is made overly complex. I understand that you want to streamline but that combining selection & function has just confused matters. The two need to be kept separate. The other functions on the G hotkey are rather redundant now that you have Gap & Range select etc on combinations of double mouse click. Anyway if you make an 'edge slide along perpendicular and connected edges' tool, we could fine tune our own Streamline tools.
The way I feel it should work; Make complex selection 1st then use your G hotkey to activate the streamline slide tool. LMB slide along mouse direction. MMB to slide along connected perpendicular edges.
Suggestion:
To add Edge Creasing to the Streamline engine. LMB = slide. MB = increments.
What Calabi's showing up there is something called Vector Operations in Wings, and they're amazing. By now the only thing I really still miss in Voidworld from Wings, for their ease of use.
Just had a look at that Wings Vid that Calabi posted again as I didn't quite understand it 1st time. That looks like a great feature. I reckon it'd work really well with a Modo style work plane too.
Wings3d is great but I kind of wish I didnt learn to model with it as I cannot get on with any other modeller because of it. I always get frustrated with not being able to do something Wings3D does so easily.
omid3098: I can't play the video. Any chance you can convert it to another format like .wmv?
that video is AVI format but first you need to unzip the 7z file.
sorry original video is 18mb and its pain to upload it with my slow internet connection. so I had to compress it with 7zip..
if you still have problems with that, just please let me know.. same link
Calabi: I know the feeling. Going from Wings to Max was a painful shift in workflow, although there are a lot of very nice things in Max that you get used to as well!
Hi Guys,
as IStonia has been working very hard on the Creasing-Implementation I could imagine that some more precise feedback was helpful... Unfortunately I don't own a package which comes with Pixar-Subdivision so I can't test side by side.
Could those of you who own Modo or Maya please look into sample-files of this Subdivision-Style and check out what differences exist?
How does Pixar Subd. behave when new Geometry gets added near to a creased edge? Is there some kind of grouping for Edges with the same weight? Does one have a viewmode which colours creased edges according to their weight? Stuff like that...
To me this current incarnation of creasing actually mostly resembles the one I've seen in Cinema4D...
Hmmm I'm trying to test out the new release but it keeps crashing on me when I try to run it. This is all I get.
I cant even run the debug version a couple of pages back.
omid3098: I did unzip the file and tried to open it with windows media player, CamStudio player and quit time, all failed. There is a window movie maker that may be in your computer. It can convert .avi to .wmv and reduce the size to just a fraction.
ghib, MightyPea, Calabi: Can you explain more about vector operation and work plane. How it is defined and how it can be used?
Arkadius: Thanks for the error message. It seems something to do with the Kernelbase.dll. It is a windows API library. The problem could be keyboard hooking related. I still need some more detail. How and when this error message pops up and what have happened visually before that? Also what happened when you try the debug version. The more information the more clue I can get.
polyxo: Thanks for bring up that idea. I do want to know how different is VW crease subd from the pixer style one as there is a compatible issue.
Hi IStonia,
one thing which made sense with your quick release-cyles: Could you please create some kind
of common preferences-file which lets us load all our Tweaks at once? Currently there's many things like everything in your "Preferences" which has to get set anew manually as one can not save these settings at all. Makes sense?
I don't know if a common file is a good thing (one corruption and everything is gone). But a string in an external file refering to the last saved preferences files and their path, auto loaded at startup would be doing the trick in a safer way. And if those files are not found, revert to the default setting (that way you can reset everything is you screwed up your configuration by simply deleting or moving the files)
"I still need some more detail. How and when this error message pops up and what have happened visually before that? Also what happened when you try the debug version. The more information the more clue I can get."
Nothing happens just as soon as I double click the .Exe It says the program must shut down and thats all. I can't run any of the releases, this even happens to the the Debug version.
IStonia, could you make the temporary hide selected/unselected object a toggle ? Right now I would like to isolate a mesh to work on it more confortably, but can't since I have to hold the keys.
[EDIT]Nevermind i didn't see the hide unselected in modify/object menu
Could the creased edge be affected by symmetry as well ? (awesome functionality that creasing btw )
omid3098: I will put the Retopo tool back in next update.
Arkadius: The WindowsApplication2.vshost is not an execution file. It is a program development file and I shouln't had included it. It seems you may have tried to open the wrong file in VoidWold folder.
No I was opening the correct file. I've run void world before I reformatted, but now on this clean reformat it doesn't run. I'm gonna try on more reformat and make sure none of the files were corrupted.
Hi IStonia,
I would like to ask you for an improvement for the 3DCoat-Applink.
Basically I'd like to see a bit smarter handling of exchanged Geometry. Now - when sending over to
3DC the Subdivision-Levels get collapsed - the mesh comes into 3DCoat as the High-Res-Version and may even get subdivided higher on Import.
Now imagine while in 3DCoat a Geometry-change came to our mind that made most of sense to add in SubD-Modeling. Would you think it was possible to either:
a) send back the Sculpted and painted mesh back VW a way that VW recognizes the higher Subd-Levels it has created? So that we could make some changes to the
Low-Res-Model like extrusions and then send back to 3DC which again imports the
High-Res-State?
or/and b) Just change over to VW again and re-send the Geometry to 3DCoat which then gets recognized by ID and "merged with the already existing sculpted mesh while just adding in the new stuff and protecting the already sculpted portions of the mesh.
I am sure, this is stuff you can't do alone - also Andrew had to provide his part (automatic masking for instance). For better understanding I've added a small Clip
done with VW in conjunction with Zbrush. As you can see what I describe here works already with Zbrush. Note that the Clip (for whatever reasons) may ommit a short part where I add some simple extrusions in Voidworld and resafe the file.
When loaded to Zbrush the existing deformation gets protected with an automatic masking. Anyway - here's the Clip
(Maybe it displays correctly when downloading it to disk?
Summary of changes:
* Edit > Customize Tools > Manipulator Tools > Pivot+Orientation(World)...
* Manipulator > Save Transform to List/Load Transform List. Buttons also available in Manipulation dock panel.
* Some oversight in obj export options is fixed.
* Stepping transformings are improved. The transform stepping reference point will always be the point when trasforming started instead the point when stepping is enabled since stepping can be enabled and disabled during the transforming operation by pressing/releasing Ctrl/Shift key.
* A new stream line tool is added N + LMB. it is used to rotate edge/polygon selection groups arround their own local average normal.
* Retopo tool is put back on under Edge Mode. This tool is a little bit complicated and not intuitive. The instructions can be found in the online book through Help menu.
Thanks!
Arkadius: Any luck?
polyxo: 3DC needs to add a new import option entry, so I can add a new button for it. Once user click that button, VW will send the object to 3DC, then 3DC can create new instance and merge it by object name to the scuplted object. Of course, 3DC needs to have the related funtionality first.
thedaemon: I don't know what is morph target's purporse in modeling. I only know they can be used in vertex animation.
There are some other formats are supported. .x/.3ds/.dae/.md5/.smd. They are only available for objects save in the library.
To save an object into the library, Create > Save To Library. If you have an empty library, you need to create new folders. Just right click in the library window or a folder node to bring up a folder creation context menu. There are three kinds of folder, only the Group Folder can actually contain objects.
To Open the library, Create > Open Object Library. If you right click at a group folder node, you will have the import format options. If you right click at an object node, you will have the export format options.
thedaemon: I don't know what is morph target's purporse in modeling. I only know they can be used in vertex animation.
There are some other formats are supported. .x/.3ds/.dae/.md5/.smd. They are only available for objects save in the library.
Hi IStonia,
may I ask you about the reason of this Library concept? What I found quite
generally is that Power-Users don't appreciate much all sorts or Proposals of Programs on how to store Data on disk... If one followed that concept one had 3D-Data - even for one project stored in 5 different places on disk - at least when working with several programs parallely. In the case of VW data even seems even to be kind of encapsulated in this Library...
I will contact you directly about the specifics of the App-Link additions.
Edit: Many thanks for Local Rotate - I will check it out asap!
polyxo: The program was originally developed as an animation tool and the Object Library was developed from then just for better animation management. There was an Animation Library also. The modeling features were added later on and the .vws format was created a few months ago.
Sorry for the confusion with your change '* Edit > Customize Tools > Manipulator Tools > Pivot+Orientation(World)...' I feel that I didn't word the request very well..
What I meant was that it would be nice to be able to have a hotkey for 'Setting Manual' on both Orientation & Pivot Position at same time. However the addition of these new hotkeys that you just made might be useful for some.. I still feel that there needs to be some improvements to VWorld's 'Temporary Pivot'.. XSI has it perfect imho.
hold a hotkey to activate temp pivot movement.
move gizmo or click on subobjects to snap to.
Wings3d actually has a nice function where your temp pivot will move to any subobjects you click on. E.g. you want to rotate a jaw on a character (for blendshape) Select the jaw > activate pivot mode > click on a vertex on either side of the jaw where it would naturally pivot from> release hotkey and your temp pivot is in place.
Temp pivot is discarded as soon as you deselect.
The new Save/Load Transform lists work well but might I make a few suggestions?
possibility to merge the two lists to one window (side by side with dividing line)
Make the list something that can be kept open permanently (floating) and also dockable. Instead of OK/Cancel; have OK/Cancel/Apply. Apply will activate the specified function but keep dialog open.
In Load list instead of just Apply to Saved Transform. You have the Align functions within the Load List for quick application.
In Align dialog box it would make things quicker if there was a box for ALL (to quickly set XPosition Y Position & Z Position. Would it be possible to have a different preset activate depending on which mouse button is clicked over the Align Button. So user can make quick Align operations. Just trying to think of ways to speed this process up.
I like the addition of the slider in the Load List (nice touch but it only works for 2 pivots selected. Could you temporarily deactivate the slider when there are 3 or more Pivots selected and instead take the average position of all selected.
Retopo is a different beast altogether. I feel that it is something that will need a LOT of work to become as elegent as other aspects of VoidWorld.
One final thing.. I'm noticing that any hotkeys that have Ctrl or Shift as part of their combination sometimes don't work. Possibly due to Ctrl being part of Tweak and Shift being part of Normal move. Might be worth investigating why. e.g. Ctrl+Q Symmetry Remove-Negative
Sorry for lengthy post but I just had to get these off my chest
ghib: There are some fuctionalities you may not know about the temporary pivot tool. Once the temporary pivot tool is on, turn on any snapping option. Move the cursor over to a snapping target and left click. The temporary pivot will snap onto that snapping target. If you want to snap the orientation as well, press down A key before left clicking. More information can be found in the online book in page Modeling > Object manipulation.
Thank you for the tip about the library. Now about morphs. The purpose is for exporting to animation packaged, currently in VW and Wing3d (my main modeling app) I have to duplicated an object to create a morph target, ie a facial pose or a facial expression. In doing so it's a bit cumbersome to hide and show original model, etc. I was just curious if you were going to touch on this issue. AFAIK only full software packages usually have morphs integrated but it would be a welcome addition to any modeling tool. Keep up the excellent work!
thedaemon: I don't know what is morph target's purporse in modeling. I only know they can be used in vertex animation.
There are some other formats are supported. .x/.3ds/.dae/.md5/.smd. They are only available for objects save in the library.
To save an object into the library, Create > Save To Library. If you have an empty library, you need to create new folders. Just right click in the library window or a folder node to bring up a folder creation context menu. There are three kinds of folder, only the Group Folder can actually contain objects.
To Open the library, Create > Open Object Library. If you right click at a group folder node, you will have the import format options. If you right click at an object node, you will have the export format options.
ghib: There are some fuctionalities you may not know about the temporary pivot tool. Once the temporary pivot tool is on, turn on any snapping option. Move the cursor over to a snapping target and left click. The temporary pivot will snap onto that snapping target. If you want to snap the orientation as well, press down A key before left clicking. More information can be found in the online book in page Modeling > Object manipulation.
Thanks for the heads up IStonia. Wow! that's some pretty comprehensive stuff, I'm not quite sure I understand what the [A] [A + X] [S + Z] [S + X] [S + Z] combinations do. I have a vague idea but it's going to take some time to get used to it as it's a little dense to penetrate. I wonder if there's a more visual way of doing it? It seems to me a little too abstracted at the moment or maybe it can be simplified in some way. I'll get my thinking cap on.
We also need a mode where the temporary Pivot position moves when you translate subobjects/objects
Mini Review
I've been using VW for the 1st time on a finished model so I've been using it extensively and noticed some viewport performance issues. It's only crashed once so it's been pretty good going.
There are 6 things that really jump out:
Viewport becomes quite sluggish/lags after zooming in close on objects for precise modelling.
VW needs an 'Isolate Selected' (One of the guys here mentioned it before about having a 'Toggle' version of F11 & F12 functions.) Would be really useful. This is different from Hide/Unhide Selected etc. In that it keeps your current view set and temporarily isolates what you want to work on. This is important.
It is sometimes hard to pick overlapping objects precisely. An object I would expect to be selected directly under the mouse is missed and/or another object selected instead. e.g wrist watch on an arm.
this might be linked to #3. The objects wireframes Z fight or something on overlapping objects (e.g. arm within a shirt). This happens when you zoom out from the model and gets worse the further out you zoom.
BGImage doesn't show through an object that has Transparent rendering. Might be a better method to draw the BGImage on top of the mesh and scroll mouse wheel makes transparent. Kindof the inverse of what a BGImage is. hmm not sure about this one.
If you finish with Vertex Tweak tool and 'Smooth' was the last then it stops the functionality of altering Soft Selection Falloff with Shift + Mouse wheel.
Overall my experience with VW has been wonderful. Really enjoyable and fluid to use with some proper functionality of tools. I just want to say great job Kun, it's coming on strong.
thedaemon: Can you explain what functionalities it requires and what's the workflow looks like about morphs?
kkkkkk: Maybe the visual style rendering is not working well.
Try this: In the Preference form, inside 'Form Color Scheme' group, Uncheck the check box that is just below 'Fore Color'. Close the program and restart it.
ghib: Congratulations! You have completed a model with VW. This is the first time I have ever heard that, and hopefully it won't be the last time.
You can't see through the transparent object because the rendering option is not set right. Rendering > Cull BakFacing or Rendering > Back Face In Gray.
the retopo tool is not what I use to resurface my highpoly models. its really hard to work and also alot time consuming.(and little buggy some times)
I prefer to use edge/vertex extrude with "snap to vertex" and "snap to face" on. but each time I do extrude, extruded edges will not be snapped on highpoly surface and each time I have to use tweak tool to put them on the highpoly model.
that video I uploaded was referring to this problem.
is there any solution for this problem please?
Summary of changes:
* A dockable panel 'Transform List' is added.
* View > Toggle Unselected Object Visibility.
* Vertex/Edge extrude tools now have snapping capability. Polygon extruding is also snapable if extruding along each selection group's average normal.
* Closeup view viewport performance improved.
* Soft selection falloff can be adjusted in vertex H tool.
Replies
I don't have the time reading the whole thread from start because English is not native and reading all the thread is very tedious for me!
Being a Silo user since 1.4 version (I am just a hobbyist in programming and 3D modeling) I have to admit the VoidWorld is an alternative but still needs some improvements in order to be as user friendly as Silo. Because my home PC is 6 years old I notice that Void World is running slower than Silo in my machine.
Recently I downloaded the 2.4 version but I didn't find where I can skin my model.
Is there any way to disable radial menus
@VoidWorld author: keep up the good work!
With the way you are making this sort of an open beta. You dont have any risks. Personally I think you should try letting loose with the development.
If you do know some modelling then you could be thinking how you could be making things more efficient. What are the common tools and workflows? Extrude seems to be the most common tool(perhaps)how could I make that faster and more powefull.
Or even how about trying a new modelling workflow. Instead of additive, the opposite, say you build a frame sort of like scaffolding. Look around, theres lots of things a ways you could try, and there are no downsides with the way you are doing it. You can try anything, and its easily reverted if people dont like.
Well - far from an Expert on this myself but as I understand the original Catmull-Clark origins from the End of the Seventies and is not (or no longer) protected. It gets used in most SubD-Modelers, some use their own adaptions or also offer alternative Mesh-Subdivision-Schemes too.
What now gets called Pixar SubD's is a more elaborate method which not only needs less Polygons but also is greatly refined for efficiency in conjunction with Renderman. That kind of optimization for year seems to have been a Job of Edwin Catmull at Pixar. The newer scheme got patented in 2005 if I recall correcly.
Check this video
also when snap is turn on, performance will be decrease so much. I know it's because it calculates too many positions, but maybe there is another way to increase performance (please!
I'm trying to make myself ready to use voidworld in Dominance war V if I can..!
P.S. skull is 95k tris
Testing the latest version and I have a few suggestions for improving Scene management.
This Explorer is really important to be able to quickly navigate around the scene and focus on objects and control groups etc.
Currently, I believe, VoidWorld forces you to enter Polygon mode to access the Material editor. This is not a good way to work.
You should be able to select a material in the Explorer and have any object's polygons highlighted/selected. I have a lot of suggestions on how to make this as streamlined and intuitive as possible but I'll leave it at that unless you're interested in this idea.
The Object List as it is currently implemented is also on a temporary tab which is not ideal.
The 'Explorer' idea would encompass all these things but is versatile enough to cater for every type of list/hierarchy type that you might need in VW for the now and the future.
VoidWorld Pivot
I think the Voidworld Pivot works great but I have a number of ideas for improvement. I like the Saved Transform but it would be useful if we could have a dropdown list of saved transforms and the ability to manage them. Select, Delete etc. It might be cool to also be able to select more than 1 saved transform and have the result of the average.
Expected result - Component should move immediately after holding Ctrl and LMB moving the mouse.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-march-16-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* Edit > Options > Radial Menu Options > Enabled.
* Crease subdivision is implemented. I use a method I can think of. Hopefully the result is not tool different from the Pixar-style one.
1. Set the object to a subdivision level. Level 3 or more is recommended. The operation will create denser geometry arround the creased area. At level 3 the shape should be ok, at level 4 the shading should be allright.
2. Select the edges to be creased.
3. Under Edge mode, open the 'Crease Subd' button tool.
4. Adjust the crease weight.
Thanks!
[ame]
ghib: The Scene Explorer could be a good idea, but I don't feel I am ready for that yet.
I will look into the pivot suggestion soon.
The bug you mentioned is fixed.
MightyPea: I can't produce the bug you come across. I also looked into the code but still no clue how it can happen.
omid3098: I can't play the video. Any chance you can convert it to another format like .wmv?
calabi: thanks for the suggestions!
georgio: You may have used VoidWorld 2.3 for the skinning feature before. Since not many people have asked for that feature, so I am not sure I should put it back or not.
Downloading...
I have a small suggestion for a tool.
In just about every program a simple thing like aligning verts is the most complicated thing, they have to use plugins or scripts or whatever(and their still lame).
Except for:
[ame]
Flatten kind of works the same way as well. You dont have to flatten the verts only in the xyz axis you can specify which direction and the plane or subobject to which you want them to flatten.
I'd love to see something like this in another program so that you can align verts in any orientation(not just in the x y z axis) to any other object or plane(even on itself).
What would be even better is if you could say select a load of verts or edges and fire them off towards say a sphere or other complex objects so you could have the reverse relief of the sphere quickly and easily(so its not just conforming to a single plane). Or even do reverse base reliefs of faces or terrain. You could easily conform non uniform surfaces to each other a bit like they were solid.
I can see a problem with that though is if the reference object is smaller than the verts being fired, some of them may end up going off into infinity.
Thanks for the bugfix and considering the suggestions. If you're looking into the explorer at some point in the future it might be worth having a look at implementing at a persistent Material editor too. If we're looking even further into the future I'd love to see a node based Mat. Editor, very much like the Softimage Render Tree (it's near perfect imho)
I've spotted a couple more issues.
see here
An explanation of the video.
At the start I am using the V + MMB Slide Selection tool and you can see that the edges are sliding along seemingly random connected edges. Then I used the Tweak Scale tool to simulate how I'd expect the edges to move. I think maybe that there are becoming too many options for sliding. You currently have :
- G - slide vertex (3 versions LMB MMB RMB)
- G - slide edges (3 versions)
- V + MMB - slide vertex
- V + MMB - slide edges
- V + MMB - slide polys.
So that's 9 different ways of sliding things and none of which can accurately and predictably slide a selection. I feel that the G tool is made overly complex. I understand that you want to streamline but that combining selection & function has just confused matters. The two need to be kept separate. The other functions on the G hotkey are rather redundant now that you have Gap & Range select etc on combinations of double mouse click. Anyway if you make an 'edge slide along perpendicular and connected edges' tool, we could fine tune our own Streamline tools.The way I feel it should work; Make complex selection 1st then use your G hotkey to activate the streamline slide tool. LMB slide along mouse direction. MMB to slide along connected perpendicular edges.
Suggestion:
Nice work on the latest releases.
sorry original video is 18mb and its pain to upload it with my slow internet connection. so I had to compress it with 7zip..
if you still have problems with that, just please let me know..
same link
as IStonia has been working very hard on the Creasing-Implementation I could imagine that some more precise feedback was helpful... Unfortunately I don't own a package which comes with Pixar-Subdivision so I can't test side by side.
Could those of you who own Modo or Maya please look into sample-files of this Subdivision-Style and check out what differences exist?
How does Pixar Subd. behave when new Geometry gets added near to a creased edge? Is there some kind of grouping for Edges with the same weight? Does one have a viewmode which colours creased edges according to their weight? Stuff like that...
To me this current incarnation of creasing actually mostly resembles the one I've seen in Cinema4D...
I cant even run the debug version a couple of pages back.
Description:
Stopped working
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: VoidWorld 2.4.exe
Application Version: 2.3.4080.352
Application Timestamp: 4d6f7770
Fault Module Name: KERNELBASE.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.1.7600.16385
Fault Module Timestamp: 4a5bdbdf
Exception Code: e0434f4d
Exception Offset: 0000b727
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
ghib, MightyPea, Calabi: Can you explain more about vector operation and work plane. How it is defined and how it can be used?
Arkadius: Thanks for the error message. It seems something to do with the Kernelbase.dll. It is a windows API library. The problem could be keyboard hooking related. I still need some more detail. How and when this error message pops up and what have happened visually before that? Also what happened when you try the debug version. The more information the more clue I can get.
polyxo: Thanks for bring up that idea. I do want to know how different is VW crease subd from the pixer style one as there is a compatible issue.
I didnt know wmv is that much lighter. thank you!
here is new link in wmv format..
one thing which made sense with your quick release-cyles: Could you please create some kind
of common preferences-file which lets us load all our Tweaks at once? Currently there's many things like everything in your "Preferences" which has to get set anew manually as one can not save these settings at all. Makes sense?
Nothing happens just as soon as I double click the .Exe It says the program must shut down and thats all. I can't run any of the releases, this even happens to the the Debug version.
If it helps I just reformatted my computer.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/net2Test-1.rar
[EDIT]Nevermind i didn't see the hide unselected in modify/object menu
Could the creased edge be affected by symmetry as well ? (awesome functionality that creasing btw
I'm getting this
escription:
Stopped working
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: WindowsApplication2.vshost.exe
Application Version: 9.0.21022.8
Application Timestamp: 47316898
Fault Module Name: KERNELBASE.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.1.7601.17514
Fault Module Timestamp: 4ce7c78c
Exception Code: e0434f4d
Exception Offset: 000000000000a49d
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
Read our privacy statement online:
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C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt
This is the BEST version yet, I say... SHIP IT!
Arkadius: The WindowsApplication2.vshost is not an execution file. It is a program development file and I shouln't had included it. It seems you may have tried to open the wrong file in VoidWold folder.
I would like to ask you for an improvement for the 3DCoat-Applink.
Basically I'd like to see a bit smarter handling of exchanged Geometry. Now - when sending over to
3DC the Subdivision-Levels get collapsed - the mesh comes into 3DCoat as the High-Res-Version and may even get subdivided higher on Import.
Now imagine while in 3DCoat a Geometry-change came to our mind that made most of sense to add in SubD-Modeling. Would you think it was possible to either:
a) send back the Sculpted and painted mesh back VW a way that VW recognizes the higher Subd-Levels it has created? So that we could make some changes to the
Low-Res-Model like extrusions and then send back to 3DC which again imports the
High-Res-State?
or/and b) Just change over to VW again and re-send the Geometry to 3DCoat which then gets recognized by ID and "merged with the already existing sculpted mesh while just adding in the new stuff and protecting the already sculpted portions of the mesh.
I am sure, this is stuff you can't do alone - also Andrew had to provide his part (automatic masking for instance). For better understanding I've added a small Clip
done with VW in conjunction with Zbrush. As you can see what I describe here works already with Zbrush. Note that the Clip (for whatever reasons) may ommit a short part where I add some simple extrusions in Voidworld and resafe the file.
When loaded to Zbrush the existing deformation gets protected with an automatic masking. Anyway - here's the Clip
(Maybe it displays correctly when downloading it to disk?
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-march-24-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* Edit > Customize Tools > Manipulator Tools > Pivot+Orientation(World)...
* Manipulator > Save Transform to List/Load Transform List. Buttons also available in Manipulation dock panel.
* Some oversight in obj export options is fixed.
* Stepping transformings are improved. The transform stepping reference point will always be the point when trasforming started instead the point when stepping is enabled since stepping can be enabled and disabled during the transforming operation by pressing/releasing Ctrl/Shift key.
* A new stream line tool is added N + LMB. it is used to rotate edge/polygon selection groups arround their own local average normal.
* Retopo tool is put back on under Edge Mode. This tool is a little bit complicated and not intuitive. The instructions can be found in the online book through Help menu.
Thanks!
Arkadius: Any luck?
polyxo: 3DC needs to add a new import option entry, so I can add a new button for it. Once user click that button, VW will send the object to 3DC, then 3DC can create new instance and merge it by object name to the scuplted object. Of course, 3DC needs to have the related funtionality first.
There are some other formats are supported. .x/.3ds/.dae/.md5/.smd. They are only available for objects save in the library.
To save an object into the library, Create > Save To Library. If you have an empty library, you need to create new folders. Just right click in the library window or a folder node to bring up a folder creation context menu. There are three kinds of folder, only the Group Folder can actually contain objects.
To Open the library, Create > Open Object Library. If you right click at a group folder node, you will have the import format options. If you right click at an object node, you will have the export format options.
Hi IStonia,
may I ask you about the reason of this Library concept? What I found quite
generally is that Power-Users don't appreciate much all sorts or Proposals of Programs on how to store Data on disk... If one followed that concept one had 3D-Data - even for one project stored in 5 different places on disk - at least when working with several programs parallely. In the case of VW data even seems even to be kind of encapsulated in this Library...
I will contact you directly about the specifics of the App-Link additions.
Edit: Many thanks for Local Rotate - I will check it out asap!
Cheers!
Sorry for the confusion with your change '* Edit > Customize Tools > Manipulator Tools > Pivot+Orientation(World)...' I feel that I didn't word the request very well..
What I meant was that it would be nice to be able to have a hotkey for 'Setting Manual' on both Orientation & Pivot Position at same time. However the addition of these new hotkeys that you just made might be useful for some.. I still feel that there needs to be some improvements to VWorld's 'Temporary Pivot'.. XSI has it perfect imho.
The new Save/Load Transform lists work well but might I make a few suggestions?
Retopo is a different beast altogether. I feel that it is something that will need a LOT of work to become as elegent as other aspects of VoidWorld.
One final thing.. I'm noticing that any hotkeys that have Ctrl or Shift as part of their combination sometimes don't work. Possibly due to Ctrl being part of Tweak and Shift being part of Normal move. Might be worth investigating why. e.g. Ctrl+Q Symmetry Remove-Negative
Sorry for lengthy post but I just had to get these off my chest
Cheers
the font looks broken
Thanks
We also need a mode where the temporary Pivot position moves when you translate subobjects/objects
Mini Review
I've been using VW for the 1st time on a finished model so I've been using it extensively and noticed some viewport performance issues. It's only crashed once so it's been pretty good going.
There are 6 things that really jump out:
- Viewport becomes quite sluggish/lags after zooming in close on objects for precise modelling.
- VW needs an 'Isolate Selected' (One of the guys here mentioned it before about having a 'Toggle' version of F11 & F12 functions.) Would be really useful. This is different from Hide/Unhide Selected etc. In that it keeps your current view set and temporarily isolates what you want to work on. This is important.
- It is sometimes hard to pick overlapping objects precisely. An object I would expect to be selected directly under the mouse is missed and/or another object selected instead. e.g wrist watch on an arm.
- this might be linked to #3. The objects wireframes Z fight or something on overlapping objects (e.g. arm within a shirt). This happens when you zoom out from the model and gets worse the further out you zoom.
- BGImage doesn't show through an object that has Transparent rendering. Might be a better method to draw the BGImage on top of the mesh and scroll mouse wheel makes transparent. Kindof the inverse of what a BGImage is. hmm not sure about this one.
- If you finish with Vertex Tweak tool and 'Smooth' was the last then it stops the functionality of altering Soft Selection Falloff with Shift + Mouse wheel.
Overall my experience with VW has been wonderful. Really enjoyable and fluid to use with some proper functionality of tools. I just want to say great job Kun, it's coming on strong.kkkkkk: Maybe the visual style rendering is not working well.
Try this: In the Preference form, inside 'Form Color Scheme' group, Uncheck the check box that is just below 'Fore Color'. Close the program and restart it.
ghib: Congratulations! You have completed a model with VW. This is the first time I have ever heard that, and hopefully it won't be the last time.
You can't see through the transparent object because the rendering option is not set right. Rendering > Cull BakFacing or Rendering > Back Face In Gray.
Unfortunately I'm unable to show the model at the moment (typical) but if I do create something in VW that can be shown here, rest assured I will.
I prefer to use edge/vertex extrude with "snap to vertex" and "snap to face" on. but each time I do extrude, extruded edges will not be snapped on highpoly surface and each time I have to use tweak tool to put them on the highpoly model.
that video I uploaded was referring to this problem.
is there any solution for this problem please?
Hopefully once the strong foundations have been laid we can all chip in with what we all really need from a retopology tool.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-march-27-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* A dockable panel 'Transform List' is added.
* View > Toggle Unselected Object Visibility.
* Vertex/Edge extrude tools now have snapping capability. Polygon extruding is also snapable if extruding along each selection group's average normal.
* Closeup view viewport performance improved.
* Soft selection falloff can be adjusted in vertex H tool.
Thanks!
Edit: There was a symmetry bug in Polygon Extrusion tool. I have renewed the update
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-march-27a-11.rar
Any thoughts on the z-fighting issue (or variable object picking issue)? From #3 & #4 from this post.