I will give it a go. Quite a big task, may take a while to get it done. I will create a new object type to represent camera. You can create as many camera as you like and pose them. The move and rotation manipulation will be the same as you woud do to normal objects. You can connect/disconnect the viewport camera to/from the selected camera at any time.
Hi guys,
new user here, I have downloaded and been having a bit of a play with Voidworld, and am sort of liking it.
I haven't come across anything yet, but is there a user manual available ?
The app is right in the middle of development, so a real user manual is unlikely to appear before most of functionalities are in.
OK, thanks, I am trying to follow the tutorials but there are some things missing in the latest version to the version used in the tuts, which makes it a little difficult to learn, but I can wait
Holy Crap lstonia, I haven't had a chance to use VW in a few months. The progress is phenomenal. Is there some way to create primitives without having to draw them onto the grid? as in press the button and a 1X1X1 box is created?
OK, thanks, I am trying to follow the tutorials but there are some things missing in the latest version to the version used in the tuts, which makes it a little difficult to learn, but I can wait
Are there any tutorials out there for noobies?
Are you just learning modelling or are you looking to learn VW? if your just learning modelling it'd be prudent to learn the basics in an app with full documentation and tutorials. Otherwise just jump in and try the tools. Poly tools are pretty much the same across all apps, some just implement them better.
r_fletch_r: There are a few ways:
* In object mode, right click and hold. Radial menu Tools > Create Box
* Provided the Box tool is opened, move the cusor over the position you want, do one of the these
~ MMB click. You can create multiple boxes in this way, but you have to close the tool in a seperate click.
~ Hit Enter key. The tool remains open and the box is not finished yet, you can further adjust the paramters to modify the box. Hit Enter key again to finish it and close the tool.
~ Hit Q key to create and close the tool at once.
Are you just learning modelling or are you looking to learn VW? if your just learning modelling it'd be prudent to learn the basics in an app with full documentation and tutorials. Otherwise just jump in and try the tools. Poly tools are pretty much the same across all apps, some just implement them better.[/QUOTE]
Both:
Mainly modeling at the moment, but am interested in learning the whole program with all of its functions.
Summary of changes:
* Alt + Tab is no longer hooked by the app.
* Camera object is added.
1. Create > Primitives > Add Camera.
2. View > Show Camera Range Line.
3. Create a sphere in front of the camera.
4. Click to select the camera. Cameras can't not be selected by marquee. This is intended not to mix camera objects with other objects in marquee selection.
5. Select a viewport.
6. View > Attach/Detach Camera. The viewport's view will be controlled by the camera.
7. Click the Perspective/Orthographic label top-right of the viewport to change the camera view to orthographic.
8. Scroll WMB to zoom. If you are using a tablet, use the WMB scroll simulator. Edit > Customize Tools > Common Shortcut Tools > WMB-Up Simulator. Make sure it is enabled.
When a camera is in perspective, move its position to zoom.
* Grid intervals are customizable. Edit > Preference > Misc Settings.
* Edit > Options > Allow Loop Slide Through Mixed N-Polygons. This option is used to solve this problem. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17715/VW_NgonLoopIdea.gif
Affected Tools: ~ StreamLine Edge S tool. ~ Visual edge tool Connect.
Thanks!
philem: Thanks for having interest in VoidWorld. Sorry for the menu. But the View Navigation Scheme and Selection Tools contents are quite updated.
hi IStonia - having checkout out voidworld a while ago i was VERY pleasantly surprised by how far you'd come in the latest versions. Its feeling really good now, and i'm very excited about where youre going with it.
Obviously a lot of aspects are still work in progress, but one thing i was curious about is overall performance - its fine at lower poly counts but it didnt seem to like bringing in high(ish)poly meshes from zbrush. I'm on an i7 with a decent geforce card, so i dont think its the hardware - is this something that you see improving in later builds?
anyway, just to reiterate, youre doing great work!
pixelherder: I kow the performance is not that good. I use c# to write the program and c# is only a fraction of c++ in terms of speed. What I can do is to use the advantage of multi-cores. But I need to know where is the bottle neck. As my computer only has two logical processors, that makes it difficult.
Can you do me a favour? With some objects about 200k polygons in the scene. Check View > Show Frames/Second. Then Change the number processors used by the app through Edit > Options > Set Number Of Processors. Can you tell me what the FPs look like if you change the number from 7 to 1?
With an i7 960@3ghz and gf gtx480
~200k scene (can't get one mesh to 200k vw just hang there)
1 core: around 20fps
8 core: around 50fps.
Btw I just saw that the object list stats (num of verts and whatnot) are not refreshed unless you deselect your mesh
Tnx for alt+tab btw.
Voidworld is probably the first app, without additional scriptin, that I know with the " Allow Loop Slide Through Mixed N-Polygons" ability... Good job !
Not too bad really, but the problems happen when i start to import higher detail >
500,000 polygon .obj import crashed
also 8000 polygon object takes 5 seconds or more if you toggle subdivision
A scene with several fairly detailed objects with subdivision is likely to be a challenge - which while not an issue at this stage, but would be a limiting factor perhaps for the sort of high detail character models i have in mind. 3ds max is certainly the best at handling multi-million polycounts (but i really dislike the workflow) - on the same machine both maya and silo are also generally much less capable with very detailed geometry
*note* Also when i say "polygon", i'm referring to triangle counts
With the cameras, wouldn't it make more sense to just have every camera show up alongside the 'top' 'bottom' etc. viewports that are already there? This sounds less complicated to me than attaching cameras. Feel free to let me know if there are downsides to this that I'm missing, though.
philem: Thanks for having interest in VoidWorld. Sorry for the menu. But the View Navigation Scheme and Selection Tools contents are quite updated.[/QUOTE]
My pleasure, as I said I am beginning to like the programme and want to get into it more and more..
Am I right in assuming that at the moment that not all of the functions work?
eg: I created a box, but when I tried the different degrees of subdivision it seemed that only level 2 is active
I also tried to add a bone but that didn't seem to work either..
philem: All the exposed functions should work.
There are two ways to do sudivision
* From top menu: Modify > Subdivision
* Use the sudivision toggle key `. By default, it will gives you level 2. But if you do a specific level subdivision like ` + 1. the ` action will toggle between 0 and 1. you can also set the toggle level to 3 or 4, but by default the shortcut action for these two are disabled. To enabled them, Edit > Customize Tools to bring up the hotkey form. You should find them under Common Modeling shortcut Tools. Check the Enabled box.
The bone creation works but I do find some bugs. I will fix that.
Finally decided to give VoidWorld a go. I must say I'm impressed. I haven't tested animated yet nor read all of this stuff on here ,but I really like some of your features like holding keys as in XSI and your symmetry was auto when I was trying to find it, hehe. perfect. Any chance of getting weighted edges for subdivisions? Ie 0.00 through 1.00.
TheDaemon: that seems like a really difficult thing to get right. The regular edge-weighting for sub-d is a dissapointing affair in my experience, and the Pixar (Catmull Clark) algorithm is patented as you say. I imagine one would have to pay to integrate it into your application?
Also, how bizarre is it that Pixologic failed to make both meshes identical in that example? It took me about 5 seconds to do so, which makes me wonder why they didn't? When I first saw that image I thought 'hmm, looks like the Pixar algorithm can't get it exactly right though'.
Actually this stuff is super useful! It does have limitations, but used in good places it really is a boost. Max, Maya and Silo all do it very well, I'll post some screens if needed!
Silo does it well? Unless you're talking about the hard/soft edges (which are not a suitable replacement for supporting edges at all!), I don't understand what you mean.
Anyway, Maya has the Catmull Clark algorithm as well, I believe.
When you're working on a subdivided mesh, some of the cut-tool's functions don't work. If this is intentional I understand, but if it's not prohibitively difficult, can this be implemented? I'm referring to interactively cutting across multiple edges and cutting into faces.
edit: Also, really liking the streamline tools on w, e and r! It'd be nice if closing them would go back to whatever manipulator (or no manipulator) you had selected before, though.
In addition to that, I just noticed you can't edit multiple objects at once. As in: select multiple objects, go into subobject and work on both of them at the same time. Could this be added?
edit three(!): Any way to set the clipping planes, or the scale of a scene? I'm running into them all the time, and I started with a default box so you'd think the scale of everything would be pretty standard.
Summary of changes:
* Loop-slide preview hilight lines may not be correct in subision models. In this case, in order not to create misleading, the programe will highlight the polygons instead.
* Some bugs in bone Create tool are fixed. Note: To create a bone, you need to select a bone in the scene first. The created bone can be either parent or child of the selected bone.
* Edit > Customize Tools > View Navigation Tools > Selection Focusing
* View > Attach/Detach Camera menu item is replaced by a new menu item in the viewport context View menu.
* Some coding is done, just attempt to use multi-processor to boost subdivision performance. BeatKitano/pixelherder, can you test this. Juset use the same model about 8000 tris, give it a level 2 subdivision on different number of processors and see how different in time comsumption.
Thanks!
BeatKitano: I created a sphere with 400k tris, saved it and loaded it successfully but it took 40 seconds to load. I don't know why it failed in your computer.
thedaemon: I am still tring to figure out the way of how to do it. I can't afford to pay for using a patented method. In the pictures you provided, I can see the base mesh of pixar subd has less polygons, but I suspect that it may have higher polygons in the subd version than the normal subd as those little rouded corners need detailed geometry.
MightyPea: There are technical difficulty in working on sudivision meshes for some opearions.
e/w/r keys are originally used for switching manipulators, so i will leave it as is.
Editing on multiple objects in subobject mode is not supported. One way to get arround is to combine them into one object first.
Clipping plane can not be set by users, it is automatically controlled by the programme. To set the scene scale, View > Floor Settings. The size of the floor represents the scene scale. After altering the scene scale, do best fit view operations for all the views, the programme will refresh the viewport camera settings including clipping planes.
The icon bars keep coming back every time I open the program, which didn't happen before.
About the e/w/r keys: My hope was that they could just work like sticky keys. Pressing and releasing toggles them on, but pressing and holding only toggles it on for as long as you hold the key. I also find the location of the manipulator gets in the way of seeing what you're doing when you're doing detail work (small movements/rotations/scaling...), and I'm not sure if it should be shown at all when holding the keys.
Just had a quick look, at this and am liking it, although.
First glance the UI does look a bit cluttered.
I like the smart tootip thing that popups and tells you what your doing and tell you what else you can do.
Theres a problem with using a tablet and the right click menu. I dont know about anyone else but with right click you have to hold the mouse above the tablet and so its almost impossible to keep the mouse position(your hand) from moving. If I click it and hold, nothing appears, if I then subsequently move it does reappear, but that just seems an odd behaviour to me.
The right click menu seems really confusing to me. The way it jumps around I'm not sure, you could end up going of the screen with it. I think it would be better with drop down menus. At least after the first one so it doesnt jump around so much.
Do you need all those things on the right click menu?
I cant find the modelling commands like bevel and extrude, and stuff, well I can but its not clear or apparent where you are supposed to use them.
I think most software is moving towards a sort of modality. Whereby you only have to deal with what you are focusing on. Think about box's or rooms, what settings go together and where can you put. How frequent are people likely to use them. If you have lots of stuff in the way it can interfere with that persons flow.
If you want more information you should use a metric thing(cant remember what its called) which a lot of company's use where they have the software send back info about how the people are using the software, like numbers of clicks, how much time spent hunting around etc. You could get a lot of really good info, that you would never find out otherwise.
thank you for this smart and friendly tool.
all a modeler need is there with easiest possible way!
just have some questions and suggestions:
- when I click "return to main" in radial menu sub categorize, it always move whole list upside and by checking 4-5 of sub categories, they will go out of screen. how ever I think those categorize are not all necessary, and having some pipeline sorted choices would be better. like primitives - modifiers - UV tools - texturing tools etc..
- create a box, go to polygon mode, select and remove one or some polygons or even whole object, go back to create object tab and create another object. now press ctrl+z.
- any chance to have directx viewport shaders?
- scripting language?! :poly136:
- when objects are in shaded mode, snap to grid will work also with grids behind the objects. is it possible to disable them in shaded mode, and enable them only in wireframe view?
I think in shaded mode it's better to snap only on objects themselves. (on vert/edge or whatever snap is on)
Edit: I forgot to ask, is there any unit setup? like metric..
Summary of changes:
* Loop-slide preview hilight lines may not be correct in subision models. In this case, in order not to create misleading, the programe will highlight the polygons instead.
* Some bugs in bone Create tool are fixed. Note: To create a bone, you need to select a bone in the scene first. The created bone can be either parent or child of the selected bone.
* Edit > Customize Tools > View Navigation Tools > Selection Focusing
* View > Attach/Detach Camera menu item is replaced by a new menu item in the viewport context View menu.
* Some coding is done, just attempt to use multi-processor to boost subdivision performance. BeatKitano/pixelherder, can you test this. Juset use the same model about 8000 tris, give it a level 2 subdivision on different number of processors and see how different in time comsumption.
Thanks!
BeatKitano: I created a sphere with 400k tris, saved it and loaded it successfully but it took 40 seconds to load. I don't know why it failed in your computer.
thedaemon: I am still tring to figure out the way of how to do it. I can't afford to pay for using a patented method. In the pictures you provided, I can see the base mesh of pixar subd has less polygons, but I suspect that it may have higher polygons in the subd version than the normal subd as those little rouded corners need detailed geometry.
MightyPea: There are technical difficulty in working on sudivision meshes for some opearions.
e/w/r keys are originally used for switching manipulators, so i will leave it as is.
Editing on multiple objects in subobject mode is not supported. One way to get arround is to combine them into one object first.
Clipping plane can not be set by users, it is automatically controlled by the programme. To set the scene scale, View > Floor Settings. The size of the floor represents the scene scale. After altering the scene scale, do best fit view operations for all the views, the programme will refresh the viewport camera settings including clipping planes.
Help
I downloaded and installed this latest update, and now Voidworld won't start up.
I click on the exe file, the splash screen comes up, then it dissappears to the task bar and nothing else happens.
I rebooted, and still no joy.
it was working ok until I did this update.
What did I do wrong ?
Summary of changes:
* The toolbar bug fixed.
* StreamLine w/e/r tools are improved. You can remove its On Activated event assignment so it won't switch on any manipolator on started. But you can still tap the keys to turn on related manipulator.
* The bug that happens When try to do undo/redo while a primitive object is being created is fixed.
Thanks!
Calabi:
It is good to hear you again!
I don't have a tablet so I can't produce the problem you have. But I did some extra coding by imagination. Plase let me know if it fixed or not.
Not sure this "I cant find the modelling commands like bevel and extrude, and stuff, well I can but its not clear or apparent where you are supposed to use them". Can you elabrate?
Thanks for the suggestion about the Software sending back infromation. It is not an easy task and I can't afford to put time in it.
You may like to look at the radial menu options. Options > Radial Menu Options. Especially the positioning option which can anchor the radial menu position.
omid3098:
You may also like to look at the radial menu options. Options > Radial Menu Options. Especially the positioning option which can anchor the radial menu position.
Viewport shaders and Scripting are not in the plan at current stage.
I don't know what is unit setup. Can you explain the concept behind it.
philem:
Does the previous version still work?
If this latest update not working. Please run this debug version http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-march-4-11-debug.rar
It will throw out some messages. Can you note down those messages and post over. I want to know how far the program can go.
I made a quick vid for the tablet right click problem(this was on the latest version which works). Not sure if it it'll help though.
As you can(or cant) see I right click as the smart menu appears but I get no right click menu unless I actually move the mouse. It works fine with the mouse so I dont know why it happens with the tablet(maybe its just my tablet?).
The center on cursor in Radial Options menu is alot better.
I think what I'm trying to say with the commands is the UI is a bit confused at the moment, it doesnt know what its meant to be. I think a software should at least in the beginning give the use some direction in how it thinks it should be used. You can have many ways of doing things but still it needs a prefered way. The flow of the way its used needs to be refined. The software isnt just a series of buttons which implement commands, it should faciliate its usage, whether thats not getting in the way or encapsulating information. It needs to be Applised is what I think I'm saying.
Personally I think if you are going to make a 3d modelling program you should at least be able to model, a bit yourself(I dont know maybe you can). Look at a few tutorials in other packages have a go at them. Because artists cant really tell you how to improve something much, they can tell you how to make it as good as what they know(which may be good enough) but they wont be able to help you come up with something like Sculptris. Which has a better workflow that they didnt know they needed.
I was wondering are you still going to be selling this because it looks close(if not there) to feature complete to me?
TheDaemon: that seems like a really difficult thing to get right. The regular edge-weighting for sub-d is a dissapointing affair in my experience, and the Pixar (Catmull Clark) algorithm is patented as you say. I imagine one would have to pay to integrate it into your application?
i know makehuman is using catmull clark, too...
so i wouldnt be too sure if its all commercial only...
Calabi:
It seems likely it's the pen problem. The mouse down event didn't fire properly.
I still don't quite get the meaning you talk about those button commands. Maybe just like what you said before, "Artists just say what they mean.".
I did some modeling myself before. Airplane, human character, animal. Although not have professional looking, but not very bad from my own point of view.
Every new workflow invention will always be a risk. It can be surprisingly good like a fresh air. But It can also be rejected by the majority of users.
There are still a lot things needed to put in, I should worry about the future later.
xXm0RpH3usXx, fwitw - most Subd-Modelers use a Catmull-Clark Subdivision scheme (developed by Scientists of same names), so does VW too. The scheme called "Pixar Subds" is an enhanced incarnation of the same principle with very fine-grained control about edge-weighting. It is only built into Maya and Modo - Softimage however also uses a similar principle.
thanks for your respond. about unit setup, question is about the way you define one unit to be as one meter/foot/centimeter etc..
if you want to create an accurate model, you need to use same values and it depends on what measurement system you have in real life and in modeling software.
I think now each unit is equal to one millimeter in voidworld. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Summary of changes:
* The toolbar bug fixed.
* StreamLine w/e/r tools are improved. You can remove its On Activated event assignment so it won't switch on any manipolator on started. But you can still tap the keys to turn on related manipulator.
* The bug that happens When try to do undo/redo while a primitive object is being created is fixed.
Thanks!
Calabi:
It is good to hear you again!
I don't have a tablet so I can't produce the problem you have. But I did some extra coding by imagination. Plase let me know if it fixed or not.
Not sure this "I cant find the modelling commands like bevel and extrude, and stuff, well I can but its not clear or apparent where you are supposed to use them". Can you elabrate?
Thanks for the suggestion about the Software sending back infromation. It is not an easy task and I can't afford to put time in it.
You may like to look at the radial menu options. Options > Radial Menu Options. Especially the positioning option which can anchor the radial menu position.
omid3098:
You may also like to look at the radial menu options. Options > Radial Menu Options. Especially the positioning option which can anchor the radial menu position.
Viewport shaders and Scripting are not in the plan at current stage.
I don't know what is unit setup. Can you explain the concept behind it.
philem:
Does the previous version still work?
If this latest update not working. Please run this debug version http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-march-4-11-debug.rar
It will throw out some messages. Can you note down those messages and post over. I want to know how far the program can go.
Hi Istonia.
Downloaded this latest update and ran it, an all is working again, Thanks
Just a question/suggestion:
Is there a Universal manipulator ?
Can it be toggled on or off?
If not is it in the works ?
philem:
Can you try that previous update that didn't work again and see if it works now. I am baffled as the last two updates don't have different codings that can cause the startup problem.
There is no universal manipulator and there is no plan to make one as switch between manipulators is easy, one more manipulator makes things a bit more complicated.
xXm0RpH3usXx, fwitw - most Subd-Modelers use a Catmull-Clark Subdivision scheme (developed by Scientists of same names), so does VW too. The scheme called "Pixar Subds" is an enhanced incarnation of the same principle with very fine-grained control about edge-weighting. It is only built into Maya and Modo - Softimage however also uses a similar principle.
philem:
There is no universal manipulator and there is no plan to make one as switch between manipulators is easy, one more manipulator makes things a bit more complicated.
+1
I totally agree with this. Universal manipulators are so messy.
IStonia VW is looking good, I haven't been able to test it much recently as we're learning new software at work at the moment & I've been learning Messiah in the evenings. You seem to be kept on your toes around here anyway
I'll download the latest and give it a shot sometime this weekend.
philem:
Can you try that previous update that didn't work again and see if it works now. I am baffled as the last two updates don't have different codings that can cause the startup problem.
There is no universal manipulator and there is no plan to make one as switch between manipulators is easy, one more manipulator makes things a bit more complicated.
Hi Istonia:
I tried the previous version again. and now it works, I closed down the programme and restarted it and it worked again.
got me stumped
ghib: I respectfully disagree, universal manipulators are not messy, I am also learning Hexagon, and the option of choosing an action from the U M from within the scene without having to keep going to the side to pick an action I find very productive, I used it in Silo, and Carrara when I touched base with them.
However I will plod along with Voidworld because I like it.
philem, ok I can also respectfully agree with individual needs.
In the end I guess it's up to IStonia with what he wants to spend his time implementing.
With Voidworld you don't need to jump to the side to select things. merely...
q = no manipulator (selection or twak only)
w = move gizmo
e = rotate gizmo
r = scale gizmo
It's nicely laid out and is very clear what each does.
philem, ok I can also respectfully agree with individual needs.
In the end I guess it's up to IStonia with what he wants to spend his time implementing.
With Voidworld you don't need to jump to the side to select things. merely...
q = no manipulator (selection or twak only)
w = move gizmo
e = rotate gizmo
r = scale gizmo
It's nicely laid out and is very clear what each does.
I used the shortcuts you mentioned and it does seem a good workflow so maybe the UM can wait
Replies
thanks!!!that sounds so good~~~
I forgot: Thank you.
new user here, I have downloaded and been having a bit of a play with Voidworld, and am sort of liking it.
I haven't come across anything yet, but is there a user manual available ?
OK, thanks, I am trying to follow the tutorials but there are some things missing in the latest version to the version used in the tuts, which makes it a little difficult to learn, but I can wait
Are there any tutorials out there for noobies?
Are you just learning modelling or are you looking to learn VW? if your just learning modelling it'd be prudent to learn the basics in an app with full documentation and tutorials. Otherwise just jump in and try the tools. Poly tools are pretty much the same across all apps, some just implement them better.
* In object mode, right click and hold. Radial menu Tools > Create Box
* Provided the Box tool is opened, move the cusor over the position you want, do one of the these
~ MMB click. You can create multiple boxes in this way, but you have to close the tool in a seperate click.
~ Hit Enter key. The tool remains open and the box is not finished yet, you can further adjust the paramters to modify the box. Hit Enter key again to finish it and close the tool.
~ Hit Q key to create and close the tool at once.
Both:
Mainly modeling at the moment, but am interested in learning the whole program with all of its functions.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-feb-22-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* Alt + Tab is no longer hooked by the app.
* Camera object is added.
1. Create > Primitives > Add Camera.
2. View > Show Camera Range Line.
3. Create a sphere in front of the camera.
4. Click to select the camera. Cameras can't not be selected by marquee. This is intended not to mix camera objects with other objects in marquee selection.
5. Select a viewport.
6. View > Attach/Detach Camera. The viewport's view will be controlled by the camera.
7. Click the Perspective/Orthographic label top-right of the viewport to change the camera view to orthographic.
8. Scroll WMB to zoom. If you are using a tablet, use the WMB scroll simulator. Edit > Customize Tools > Common Shortcut Tools > WMB-Up Simulator. Make sure it is enabled.
When a camera is in perspective, move its position to zoom.
* Grid intervals are customizable. Edit > Preference > Misc Settings.
* Edit > Options > Allow Loop Slide Through Mixed N-Polygons. This option is used to solve this problem. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17715/VW_NgonLoopIdea.gif
Affected Tools: ~ StreamLine Edge S tool. ~ Visual edge tool Connect.
Thanks!
philem: Thanks for having interest in VoidWorld. Sorry for the menu. But the View Navigation Scheme and Selection Tools contents are quite updated.
Obviously a lot of aspects are still work in progress, but one thing i was curious about is overall performance - its fine at lower poly counts but it didnt seem to like bringing in high(ish)poly meshes from zbrush. I'm on an i7 with a decent geforce card, so i dont think its the hardware - is this something that you see improving in later builds?
anyway, just to reiterate, youre doing great work!
Can you do me a favour? With some objects about 200k polygons in the scene. Check View > Show Frames/Second. Then Change the number processors used by the app through Edit > Options > Set Number Of Processors. Can you tell me what the FPs look like if you change the number from 7 to 1?
~200k scene (can't get one mesh to 200k vw just hang there)
1 core: around 20fps
8 core: around 50fps.
Btw I just saw that the object list stats (num of verts and whatnot) are not refreshed unless you deselect your mesh
Tnx for alt+tab btw.
Voidworld is probably the first app, without additional scriptin, that I know with the " Allow Loop Slide Through Mixed N-Polygons" ability... Good job !
core i7 2.66ghz
(no backface culling on anything)
1 core - 6 x 36,000 poly objects - shaded view - 30fps
1 core - 6 x 36,000 poly objects - shaded view + wireframe - 6fps
1 core - 6 x 36,000 poly objects - shaded view - 44fps
1 core - 6 x 36,000 poly objects - shaded view + wireframe - 10fps
Not too bad really, but the problems happen when i start to import higher detail >
500,000 polygon .obj import crashed
also 8000 polygon object takes 5 seconds or more if you toggle subdivision
A scene with several fairly detailed objects with subdivision is likely to be a challenge - which while not an issue at this stage, but would be a limiting factor perhaps for the sort of high detail character models i have in mind. 3ds max is certainly the best at handling multi-million polycounts (but i really dislike the workflow) - on the same machine both maya and silo are also generally much less capable with very detailed geometry
*note* Also when i say "polygon", i'm referring to triangle counts
Anyway, came across this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17715/VW_loopcut_strange.gif
The highlighting is different from the final result of the loopslice.
thank you IStonia !! you made my day !!!
philem: Thanks for having interest in VoidWorld. Sorry for the menu. But the View Navigation Scheme and Selection Tools contents are quite updated.[/QUOTE]
My pleasure, as I said I am beginning to like the programme and want to get into it more and more..
Am I right in assuming that at the moment that not all of the functions work?
eg: I created a box, but when I tried the different degrees of subdivision it seemed that only level 2 is active
I also tried to add a bone but that didn't seem to work either..
There are two ways to do sudivision
* From top menu: Modify > Subdivision
* Use the sudivision toggle key `. By default, it will gives you level 2. But if you do a specific level subdivision like ` + 1. the ` action will toggle between 0 and 1. you can also set the toggle level to 3 or 4, but by default the shortcut action for these two are disabled. To enabled them, Edit > Customize Tools to bring up the hotkey form. You should find them under Common Modeling shortcut Tools. Check the Enabled box.
The bone creation works but I do find some bugs. I will fix that.
It´s really cool that you are hearing our wishes and fix them out almost in an instant.
Keep up the good work mate!
Specter: Glad that you didn't call me a BLOODY monster.
Modo
lightwave
Also, how bizarre is it that Pixologic failed to make both meshes identical in that example? It took me about 5 seconds to do so, which makes me wonder why they didn't? When I first saw that image I thought 'hmm, looks like the Pixar algorithm can't get it exactly right though'.
Anyway, Maya has the Catmull Clark algorithm as well, I believe.
edit: Also, really liking the streamline tools on w, e and r! It'd be nice if closing them would go back to whatever manipulator (or no manipulator) you had selected before, though.
In addition to that, I just noticed you can't edit multiple objects at once. As in: select multiple objects, go into subobject and work on both of them at the same time. Could this be added?
edit three(!): Any way to set the clipping planes, or the scale of a scene? I'm running into them all the time, and I started with a default box so you'd think the scale of everything would be pretty standard.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-feb-27-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* Loop-slide preview hilight lines may not be correct in subision models. In this case, in order not to create misleading, the programe will highlight the polygons instead.
* Some bugs in bone Create tool are fixed. Note: To create a bone, you need to select a bone in the scene first. The created bone can be either parent or child of the selected bone.
* Edit > Customize Tools > View Navigation Tools > Selection Focusing
* View > Attach/Detach Camera menu item is replaced by a new menu item in the viewport context View menu.
* Some coding is done, just attempt to use multi-processor to boost subdivision performance. BeatKitano/pixelherder, can you test this. Juset use the same model about 8000 tris, give it a level 2 subdivision on different number of processors and see how different in time comsumption.
Thanks!
BeatKitano: I created a sphere with 400k tris, saved it and loaded it successfully but it took 40 seconds to load. I don't know why it failed in your computer.
thedaemon: I am still tring to figure out the way of how to do it. I can't afford to pay for using a patented method. In the pictures you provided, I can see the base mesh of pixar subd has less polygons, but I suspect that it may have higher polygons in the subd version than the normal subd as those little rouded corners need detailed geometry.
MightyPea: There are technical difficulty in working on sudivision meshes for some opearions.
e/w/r keys are originally used for switching manipulators, so i will leave it as is.
Editing on multiple objects in subobject mode is not supported. One way to get arround is to combine them into one object first.
Clipping plane can not be set by users, it is automatically controlled by the programme. To set the scene scale, View > Floor Settings. The size of the floor represents the scene scale. After altering the scene scale, do best fit view operations for all the views, the programme will refresh the viewport camera settings including clipping planes.
About the e/w/r keys: My hope was that they could just work like sticky keys. Pressing and releasing toggles them on, but pressing and holding only toggles it on for as long as you hold the key. I also find the location of the manipulator gets in the way of seeing what you're doing when you're doing detail work (small movements/rotations/scaling...), and I'm not sure if it should be shown at all when holding the keys.
First glance the UI does look a bit cluttered.
I like the smart tootip thing that popups and tells you what your doing and tell you what else you can do.
Theres a problem with using a tablet and the right click menu. I dont know about anyone else but with right click you have to hold the mouse above the tablet and so its almost impossible to keep the mouse position(your hand) from moving. If I click it and hold, nothing appears, if I then subsequently move it does reappear, but that just seems an odd behaviour to me.
The right click menu seems really confusing to me. The way it jumps around I'm not sure, you could end up going of the screen with it. I think it would be better with drop down menus. At least after the first one so it doesnt jump around so much.
Do you need all those things on the right click menu?
I cant find the modelling commands like bevel and extrude, and stuff, well I can but its not clear or apparent where you are supposed to use them.
I think most software is moving towards a sort of modality. Whereby you only have to deal with what you are focusing on. Think about box's or rooms, what settings go together and where can you put. How frequent are people likely to use them. If you have lots of stuff in the way it can interfere with that persons flow.
If you want more information you should use a metric thing(cant remember what its called) which a lot of company's use where they have the software send back info about how the people are using the software, like numbers of clicks, how much time spent hunting around etc. You could get a lot of really good info, that you would never find out otherwise.
all a modeler need is there with easiest possible way!
just have some questions and suggestions:
- when I click "return to main" in radial menu sub categorize, it always move whole list upside and by checking 4-5 of sub categories, they will go out of screen. how ever I think those categorize are not all necessary, and having some pipeline sorted choices would be better. like primitives - modifiers - UV tools - texturing tools etc..
- create a box, go to polygon mode, select and remove one or some polygons or even whole object, go back to create object tab and create another object. now press ctrl+z.
- any chance to have directx viewport shaders?
- scripting language?! :poly136:
- when objects are in shaded mode, snap to grid will work also with grids behind the objects. is it possible to disable them in shaded mode, and enable them only in wireframe view?
I think in shaded mode it's better to snap only on objects themselves. (on vert/edge or whatever snap is on)
Edit: I forgot to ask, is there any unit setup? like metric..
Help
I downloaded and installed this latest update, and now Voidworld won't start up.
I click on the exe file, the splash screen comes up, then it dissappears to the task bar and nothing else happens.
I rebooted, and still no joy.
it was working ok until I did this update.
What did I do wrong ?
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-march-4-11.rar
Summary of changes:
* The toolbar bug fixed.
* StreamLine w/e/r tools are improved. You can remove its On Activated event assignment so it won't switch on any manipolator on started. But you can still tap the keys to turn on related manipulator.
* The bug that happens When try to do undo/redo while a primitive object is being created is fixed.
Thanks!
Calabi:
It is good to hear you again!
I don't have a tablet so I can't produce the problem you have. But I did some extra coding by imagination. Plase let me know if it fixed or not.
Not sure this "I cant find the modelling commands like bevel and extrude, and stuff, well I can but its not clear or apparent where you are supposed to use them". Can you elabrate?
Thanks for the suggestion about the Software sending back infromation. It is not an easy task and I can't afford to put time in it.
You may like to look at the radial menu options. Options > Radial Menu Options. Especially the positioning option which can anchor the radial menu position.
omid3098:
You may also like to look at the radial menu options. Options > Radial Menu Options. Especially the positioning option which can anchor the radial menu position.
Viewport shaders and Scripting are not in the plan at current stage.
I don't know what is unit setup. Can you explain the concept behind it.
philem:
Does the previous version still work?
If this latest update not working. Please run this debug version
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-march-4-11-debug.rar
It will throw out some messages. Can you note down those messages and post over. I want to know how far the program can go.
As you can(or cant) see I right click as the smart menu appears but I get no right click menu unless I actually move the mouse. It works fine with the mouse so I dont know why it happens with the tablet(maybe its just my tablet?).
http://www.mediafire.com/?5y5fc91kt2yggti
The center on cursor in Radial Options menu is alot better.
I think what I'm trying to say with the commands is the UI is a bit confused at the moment, it doesnt know what its meant to be. I think a software should at least in the beginning give the use some direction in how it thinks it should be used. You can have many ways of doing things but still it needs a prefered way. The flow of the way its used needs to be refined. The software isnt just a series of buttons which implement commands, it should faciliate its usage, whether thats not getting in the way or encapsulating information. It needs to be Applised is what I think I'm saying.
Personally I think if you are going to make a 3d modelling program you should at least be able to model, a bit yourself(I dont know maybe you can). Look at a few tutorials in other packages have a go at them. Because artists cant really tell you how to improve something much, they can tell you how to make it as good as what they know(which may be good enough) but they wont be able to help you come up with something like Sculptris. Which has a better workflow that they didnt know they needed.
I was wondering are you still going to be selling this because it looks close(if not there) to feature complete to me?
i know makehuman is using catmull clark, too...
so i wouldnt be too sure if its all commercial only...
http://makehuman.blogspot.com/2011/02/catmull-clark-subdivision.html
It seems likely it's the pen problem. The mouse down event didn't fire properly.
I still don't quite get the meaning you talk about those button commands. Maybe just like what you said before, "Artists just say what they mean.".
I did some modeling myself before. Airplane, human character, animal. Although not have professional looking, but not very bad from my own point of view.
Every new workflow invention will always be a risk. It can be surprisingly good like a fresh air. But It can also be rejected by the majority of users.
There are still a lot things needed to put in, I should worry about the future later.
xXm0RpH3usXx, fwitw - most Subd-Modelers use a Catmull-Clark Subdivision scheme (developed by Scientists of same names), so does VW too. The scheme called "Pixar Subds" is an enhanced incarnation of the same principle with very fine-grained control about edge-weighting. It is only built into Maya and Modo - Softimage however also uses a similar principle.
if you want to create an accurate model, you need to use same values and it depends on what measurement system you have in real life and in modeling software.
I think now each unit is equal to one millimeter in voidworld. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Hi Istonia.
Downloaded this latest update and ran it, an all is working again, Thanks
Just a question/suggestion:
Is there a Universal manipulator ?
Can it be toggled on or off?
If not is it in the works ?
Sorry 3 questions
Can you try that previous update that didn't work again and see if it works now. I am baffled as the last two updates don't have different codings that can cause the startup problem.
There is no universal manipulator and there is no plan to make one as switch between manipulators is easy, one more manipulator makes things a bit more complicated.
thx for clearing that up man!
I totally agree with this. Universal manipulators are so messy.
IStonia VW is looking good, I haven't been able to test it much recently as we're learning new software at work at the moment & I've been learning Messiah in the evenings. You seem to be kept on your toes around here anyway
I'll download the latest and give it a shot sometime this weekend.
Hi Istonia:
I tried the previous version again. and now it works, I closed down the programme and restarted it and it worked again.
got me stumped
ghib: I respectfully disagree, universal manipulators are not messy, I am also learning Hexagon, and the option of choosing an action from the U M from within the scene without having to keep going to the side to pick an action I find very productive, I used it in Silo, and Carrara when I touched base with them.
However I will plod along with Voidworld because I like it.
In the end I guess it's up to IStonia with what he wants to spend his time implementing.
With Voidworld you don't need to jump to the side to select things. merely...
It's nicely laid out and is very clear what each does.
I used the shortcuts you mentioned and it does seem a good workflow so maybe the UM can wait
Modo called it Pixar SubD, but I assumed Neil Blevins would be right. Does anyone know where the confusion comes from?