Hi Pjanssen, I found this script from ScriptSpot which automatically delete empty layers from the layer manager and it works. But the thing is, Outliner didn't detect the layer manager's layer list changes and I have to close and reopen Outliner for it to display the updated layer list in layer manager. I notice that from Outliner I can't delete empty layers and its a waste of time (well, just a few seconds actually..heheh) to open the layer manager every time I want to delete layers.
Did you know what possibly causing this?..I really hope this 2 scripts can work together.
Thanks in advance.
@Revel:
The issue with deleting layers in the Outliner has been fixed. This fix will be included in the next release. Thanks for reporting the issue.
I'm not sure why the Outliner wouldn't pick up on the changes made by that script. It seems to use the same command that the Outliner itself does. And manually deleting a layer from the Layer Manager makes the Outliner update just fine...
Thanks PJanssen, been waiting for the new release to come! Hope this 2 scripts can work side by side nicely in the future release. Btw, I contact one of the author of that layer cleaner script and he said probably Outliner use it's custom attributes, not the Max's build-in layer system, that's why it didn't detect the changes unless I close and reopen it. Anyway, looking forward for the new release!
*Sorry I can't help on anything since I don't understand MaxScript..
I've looked into this a little bit, and the issue is with maxscript itself. The maxscript command used to delete layers doesn't trigger any callbacks that other scripts (i.e. the Outliner) can react to. So the Outliner can never be aware of layers being deleted.
The integration of the Layer system with maxscript on the whole is a bit shoddy anyway, this isn't the first issue with them..
edit: I just realised that I actually made a "delete empty layers" script myself, as part of the Workflow Tools. However, this script has the same issue as LoneRobot's. I can fix mine to work together with the Outliner though.
The updated workflow tools will be released at the same time as the oncoming Outliner 2.0.9 update. It'll be available to anyone who makes a donation, or has done so in the past.
I've been doing some work on the Outliner in between coursework. So far I've mainly looked at easy to implement changes/features and easy to fix bugs. There are some bugs which require more investigation, hopefully I'll have some time to do this before long. With some luck, this version can be released within a week.
Here's a provisional list of changes: Outliner version 2.0.9
* Added "add selection to layer" node button.
* Node-button position can now be set for each button type individually.
* Added option to invert the behavior of the Hide nodebutton (the little lightbulb icon). The option can be found under "User Interface" in the Options dialog.
* Fixed non-functioning "Delete" context-menu item for layers.
* Fixed middle mouse button double-click crash.
* Fixed issue with context-menu actions being performed twice (e.g. Object Properties opening twice)
* Fixed various bugs leading to Outliner crashes.
Workflow Tools 2.0.9
* Fixed issue with Outliner not updating when using "Delete empty layers" script.
* Added option to invert the behavior of the Hide nodebutton (the little lightbulb icon).
Great, can't wait! My brain keeps telling me that lightbulb on means "show", and lightbulb off means "hide". So this option will make this fantastic tool that much more intuitive. Thanks for your work on this, it makes everything I do in Max so much more enjoyable.
Alright, 2.0.9 is about ready now. There are a lot of small improvements and fixes included in this version. I've been going through all reported errors and have fixed most of them.
Since there are so many changes, it'd be good to have a bit of testing done on this version. Although I didn't encounter problems with it, little mistakes are easily made and I can't possibly test all ways of using the Outliner myself.
So if you're interested in taking the "beta" for a spin for a couple of days, drop me an email or PM!
Thanks!
I've released an update for the Outliner, version 2.0.9. This update fixes a lot of issues, and adds a couple of small improvements. Most notable amongst them being:
* Added "add selection to layer" node button.
* Added option to invert the behavior of the Hide nodebutton (the little lightbulb icon). The option can be found under "User Interface" in the Options dialog.
* Fixed non-functioning "Delete" context-menu item for layers.
* Fixed installer "macroscript file not found" issue. Restart no longer required, unless the Outliner has been run ealier in the session.
* Fixed various bugs leading to Outliner crashes.
A full list of changes can be found here in the changelog.
To update, just run the Outliner in 3dsmax, and if it doesn't prompt you to update when starting, go into the options menu and click "Check now". Alternatively, you can download it directly. If you do so, just drag the .mzp file into max and follow the installer.
I'll publish the (minor) update on the workflow tools soon too.
does this work with max 2011? I've tried versions 2.0.7 and 2.0.8 previously and both didn't work for me. I added open/close outliner to my quad menu, but when selected nothing pops up...?
It should definitely work for max 2011. But then again, so should any of the previous versions.
Has it ever worked before for you?
Maybe the window is positioned somewhere off the screen for some odd reason, although it does actually try to avoid this... You could try finding the preferences file (just run a search for "outliner_prefs.ini") and delete it. Then install the latest version, and see if that gives you anything.
Let me know if you keep having problems, and I'll do my best to sort it out.
Thanks for the update, love the add selected button!
some weird stuff keeps happening with the new version however (that didn't happen in previous versions):
-Scrolling corruption on object names, can usually be fixed by just continuing to scroll up and down.
-Invisible objects and layers. I can't tell what's different about these vs. other layers, but they don't show up unless you click on them, then they disappear once you deselect them.
It should definitely work for max 2011. But then again, so should any of the previous versions.
Has it ever worked before for you?
Maybe the window is positioned somewhere off the screen for some odd reason, although it does actually try to avoid this... You could try finding the preferences file (just run a search for "outliner_prefs.ini") and delete it. Then install the latest version, and see if that gives you anything.
Let me know if you keep having problems, and I'll do my best to sort it out.
some weird stuff keeps happening with the new version however (that didn't happen in previous versions):
Actually I've seen someone mentioning similar problems with 2.0.7 or 2.0.8. But I've never been able to reproduce them...
Which 3dsmax, .NET and windows version are you using?
-Scrolling corruption on object names, can usually be fixed by just continuing to scroll up and down.
Can you tell me how you scroll when this occurs? For example, with the mousewheel, middle-mouse button, wacom autoscroll, etc. And does it also occur when you use the scrollbar or scrollbar buttons?
So far I've been unable to reproduce this error.
-Invisible objects and layers. I can't tell what's different about these vs. other layers, but they don't show up unless you click on them, then they disappear once you deselect them.
That's strange. It'd suggest that the node paint function crashes (it's one of the few methods that crashes silently). Have you been able to find out when this occurs? Is it always the same layer, or Is it after a specific action, or with specific layer properties?
I've updated the workflow tools to version 2.0.9 today. I've sent out an email to everyone who has donated in the past.
If you didn't get it for some reason, you can use the 'old' download link to get the latest version. If you don't have that anymore, contact me.
Actually I've seen someone mentioning similar problems with 2.0.7 or 2.0.8. But I've never been able to reproduce them...
Which 3dsmax, .NET and windows version are you using?
3dsmax 2010 SP1, .Net Framework 3.5 SP1, Windows XP (32bit)
These bugs are fresh to me, I've been using Outliner for a few versions now. They seem to occur consistently with a large number of objects/layers being displayed.
Can you tell me how you scroll when this occurs? For example, with the mousewheel, middle-mouse button, wacom autoscroll, etc. And does it also occur when you use the scrollbar or scrollbar buttons?
So far I've been unable to reproduce this error.
(See attached screenshot)
This only seems to occur with a large number of objects and usually when you have to scroll down to see the rest of the list (using any scrolling method, including the scrollbars)
That's strange. It'd suggest that the node paint function crashes (it's one of the few methods that crashes silently). Have you been able to find out when this occurs? Is it always the same layer, or Is it after a specific action, or with specific layer properties?
(See attached screenshot)
It doesn't seem to be after a specific action. I created a fresh scene and was able to reproduce the bug by duplicating a bunch of boxes and creating several layers. This naturally occurs in any of my old scene files that have a large number of objects (but small scene files behave just fine). Also, restarting Outliner\Max doesn't fix this.
The layer\object that's invisible seems to depend on its position in the window and can be different depending on what you have expanded or if you add or remove objects, it seems to occur in roughly the same positions of the window (moving or resizing the window doesn't change this)
Thanks for the detailed info Andrew, that will certainly help in trying to find out what's going on there.
I'll look into it. If in the meantime you notice any more patterns in when/how it occurs, do let me know (that smiley looks very smug by the way..hehe)
I've tried it at Max 2011 x64 and yes it make Max crashed also.
Btw a few days ago I installed Outliner at work using Max 2010 x86 but I notice sometimes Outliner just blank, not even the default 0 layer, after restart Outliner then only it shows correctly (I leave Outliner to default open when Max start), is it because the scene previously saved without Outliner open in Max? not sure..
PJ, this current version of Outliner still didn't play along with the "layer cleaner" script that I posted earlier. But no worries because now the Delete button from right-click context menu in Outliner work for layers too, just like you promised..hehe thanks dude!
@Nysuatro
What Max version are you using? cus I tried here using Max 2011 x64, having TexTools open and drag Outliner out from the docking position (left and right) it's all fine.
I've tried it at Max 2011 x64 and yes it make Max crashed also.
Btw a few days ago I installed Outliner at work using Max 2010 x86 but I notice sometimes Outliner just blank, not even the default 0 layer, after restart Outliner then only it shows correctly (I leave Outliner to default open when Max start), is it because the scene previously saved without Outliner open in Max? not sure..
I don't think it's because the scene was saved without the Outliner. But I'm not sure what it could be. Does it happen with specific scenes, or 'at random' ?
PJ, this current version of Outliner still didn't play along with the "layer cleaner" script that I posted earlier. But no worries because now the Delete button from right-click context menu in Outliner work for layers too, just like you promised..hehe thanks dude!
I know that it doesn't work with that layer cleaner script, and there's nothing I can do about that, it's a maxscript limitation. The workflow tools contains a similar script that does update the Outliner appropriately.
@Nysuatro
What Max version are you using? cus I tried here using Max 2011 x64, having TexTools open and drag Outliner out from the docking position (left and right) it's all fine.
_Revel
I used Max 2011 x32. Will try it out on the 64bit version tonight.
Strange that it doesn't crash on your computer.
@PJanssen
I can't say much about that now because today I was working with the scene that I already saved with Outliner installed and no problem at all. Will try some more scene that have not saved with Outliner next week and I'll confirm to you what's the result later.
@Nysuatro
Did you have any other script installed? cus if I'm not mistaken Illusion Catalyst's docking system not playing very nice with Outliner's docking system (I'm not sure whether they have any fix for this issue yet or not).
Uploaded a little update: 2.0.93, which fixes a crash that seemed to occur quite frequently when opening some scenes.
@michi.be: I've had a quick look at the graphite drag&drop crash, and it happens for me too. But there's nothing I can do about it; not sure what's going wrong, but I reckon that it's not an Outliner problem. I don't think that it's a big problem either, it's a rare situation.
Thanks for the update PJanssen. Btw, sorry I forgot to inform you that the drag and drop .max file causing Outliner missing the layer list (even the default 0, have to restart Outliner to bring back the list) is happen on all the scene I try at work (even only contain simple box) on Max 2010 x86. On the same machine, if I open the .max file through the menu, recent scene, it's all alright. So I'm not sure whether its Outline or Max drag and drop import problem. But this small problem won't cause me to stop using this awesome tool haha!
@Revel: I've tried to replicate the issue when dragging a max file into 3dsmax. It seems to work just fine for me...open, merge and xref cause no problems. Quite strange...
Well I've tried in my computer at home and...it works all fine too. Probably got something in my computer at work that causing this issue? not sure. Anyway, good stuff man and I'll let you know if I found something that can be blame for this issue! Cheers.
Thanks for all the new features, especially the add to layer option in the UI, its the only time I would use the old max layer manager and now I don't ever need to touch the thing.
I was running into one bug and I'm not sure if it was the scene I was working in or if it was something you fixed in outliner but its gone now. Whenever I would launch outliner it would hide cameras lights and helpers. I went to recreate it this morning to help troubleshoot and document it, and its fine... I'll be sure to let you know if it starts happening again but for now, thanks for fixing the bug before I even mentioned it heh =P
I was running into one bug and I'm not sure if it was the scene I was working in or if it was something you fixed in outliner but its gone now. Whenever I would launch outliner it would hide cameras lights and helpers. I went to recreate it this morning to help troubleshoot and document it, and its fine... I'll be sure to let you know if it starts happening again but for now, thanks for fixing the bug before I even mentioned it heh =P
Hmm, did it hide those objects in the scene, or just in the outliner?
Could it be that the filter and the "affect viewport" option was on by mistake?
It was hiding them in the scene. Now that you mention it, I think that might of been on and reset when I uninstalled the old version and installed the latest. I had to do that because I think the downloader was blocked by a firewall setting.
I'm not sure if it remembers those settings or if reverts back to defaults on a new install. I remember having to set it to layer mode, stretch and dock it again which I didn't have to do with past updates that I just let it download and install automatically.
These settings should be preserved, but I have seen then being reset for some reason at times too..
Actually, a manual uninstall will remove the preferences file. Maybe that should be optional, coming to think of it.
Err..PJ, today on my working computer everything seems fine, no missing layer stuff but sorry I couldn't found anything that cause that issue before..I guess you can just forget about that mysterious missing layer bug heheh..
I'm working on an update which changes some things in the automatic updating code. Because of this, I'd like to test it a bit more thoroughly than usual. So if there are some people who would like to offer their help, that'd be great! It shouldn't be much work, basically installing a new version and checking if the updating mechanism works.
Drop me a PM (with your email address) or email if you'd like to help out. Thanks!
I've uploaded a new update: 2.0.94:
* Added location and hide option for search bar.
* Improved update functionality:
- Updates can be skipped.
- It's possible to get beta versions if they are available by unchecking the 'skip trial versions' in the options dialog.
- For future updates, the changelog will be displayed in the update dialog.
* When uninstalling manually, the preferences file can be preserved. (Automatic uninstallation as part of an update always preserves preferences).
Use the update function in the Outliner's options dialog to get it, or alternatively download it directly.
This will be the last version that supports 3dsmax 2008. More about that later.
Would it be possible to add an X to the end of the search box to clear whatever was typed in? It would be handy because it takes a second or two to either backspace to clear your selection or selecting the text and hitting delete.
Alright, a few thoughts on the future of the Outliner:
- Over the past month and a half, I've been collecting some (anonymous) statistics from the update requests. It turns out that only around 2,2% of the Outliner users use 3dsmax 2008, which in absolute terms is about 20 people. Because this is such a low number, I have decided to make a few changes under the hood which are supported in maxscript 2009 and above, to improve performance and stability.
This means that version 2.0.94 will be the last update for 2008 users. There may possibly be patches for bugs, but no new features. Anticipating this, the update mechanism in 2.0.94 will take the 3dsmax version into account when looking for updates.
- I've been thinking about the possibility of having multiple treeviews opened at the same time. For example, you could have the Outliner split horizontally, and have a treeview in hierarchy mode at the top, and one in layer mode at the bottom. Or perhaps there could be several separate windows with trees opened simultaneously. Since horizontal screen-space is probably more available than vertical screen-space, especially with a dual monitor setup, right?
Dragging & Dropping between trees should be possible too. It will require a lot of work and adjustments, but I think that it could be very useful.
If you guys have thoughts or ideas on this, I'd be very interested to hear it!
- And finally, I've decided to bite the bullet and write a short 'user documentation' for the Outliner. The main purpose for this is to have a way for new users to find out about the more hidden little features (e.g. holding the ctrl key to expand entire hierarchy)
Would it be possible to add an X to the end of the search box to clear whatever was typed in? It would be handy because it takes a second or two to either backspace to clear your selection or selecting the text and hitting delete.
Replies
Did you know what possibly causing this?..I really hope this 2 scripts can work together.
Thanks in advance.
_Revel
The issue with deleting layers in the Outliner has been fixed. This fix will be included in the next release. Thanks for reporting the issue.
I'm not sure why the Outliner wouldn't pick up on the changes made by that script. It seems to use the same command that the Outliner itself does. And manually deleting a layer from the Layer Manager makes the Outliner update just fine...
*Sorry I can't help on anything since I don't understand MaxScript..
_Revel
The integration of the Layer system with maxscript on the whole is a bit shoddy anyway, this isn't the first issue with them..
edit: I just realised that I actually made a "delete empty layers" script myself, as part of the Workflow Tools. However, this script has the same issue as LoneRobot's. I can fix mine to work together with the Outliner though.
The updated workflow tools will be released at the same time as the oncoming Outliner 2.0.9 update. It'll be available to anyone who makes a donation, or has done so in the past.
Cheers.
_Revel
Here's a provisional list of changes:
Outliner version 2.0.9
* Added "add selection to layer" node button.
* Node-button position can now be set for each button type individually.
* Added option to invert the behavior of the Hide nodebutton (the little lightbulb icon). The option can be found under "User Interface" in the Options dialog.
* Fixed non-functioning "Delete" context-menu item for layers.
* Fixed middle mouse button double-click crash.
* Fixed issue with context-menu actions being performed twice (e.g. Object Properties opening twice)
* Fixed various bugs leading to Outliner crashes.
Workflow Tools 2.0.9
* Fixed issue with Outliner not updating when using "Delete empty layers" script.
Great, can't wait! My brain keeps telling me that lightbulb on means "show", and lightbulb off means "hide". So this option will make this fantastic tool that much more intuitive. Thanks for your work on this, it makes everything I do in Max so much more enjoyable.
Since there are so many changes, it'd be good to have a bit of testing done on this version. Although I didn't encounter problems with it, little mistakes are easily made and I can't possibly test all ways of using the Outliner myself.
So if you're interested in taking the "beta" for a spin for a couple of days, drop me an email or PM!
Thanks!
* Added "add selection to layer" node button.
* Added option to invert the behavior of the Hide nodebutton (the little lightbulb icon). The option can be found under "User Interface" in the Options dialog.
* Fixed non-functioning "Delete" context-menu item for layers.
* Fixed installer "macroscript file not found" issue. Restart no longer required, unless the Outliner has been run ealier in the session.
* Fixed various bugs leading to Outliner crashes.
A full list of changes can be found here in the changelog.
To update, just run the Outliner in 3dsmax, and if it doesn't prompt you to update when starting, go into the options menu and click "Check now". Alternatively, you can download it directly. If you do so, just drag the .mzp file into max and follow the installer.
I'll publish the (minor) update on the workflow tools soon too.
this is the most usefull in my library script
merci
Has it ever worked before for you?
Maybe the window is positioned somewhere off the screen for some odd reason, although it does actually try to avoid this... You could try finding the preferences file (just run a search for "outliner_prefs.ini") and delete it. Then install the latest version, and see if that gives you anything.
Let me know if you keep having problems, and I'll do my best to sort it out.
some weird stuff keeps happening with the new version however (that didn't happen in previous versions):
-Scrolling corruption on object names, can usually be fixed by just continuing to scroll up and down.
-Invisible objects and layers. I can't tell what's different about these vs. other layers, but they don't show up unless you click on them, then they disappear once you deselect them.
(See attached images)
Awesome...that fixed it..thx
Which 3dsmax, .NET and windows version are you using?
Can you tell me how you scroll when this occurs? For example, with the mousewheel, middle-mouse button, wacom autoscroll, etc. And does it also occur when you use the scrollbar or scrollbar buttons?
So far I've been unable to reproduce this error.
That's strange. It'd suggest that the node paint function crashes (it's one of the few methods that crashes silently). Have you been able to find out when this occurs? Is it always the same layer, or Is it after a specific action, or with specific layer properties?
If you didn't get it for some reason, you can use the 'old' download link to get the latest version. If you don't have that anymore, contact me.
3dsmax 2010 SP1, .Net Framework 3.5 SP1, Windows XP (32bit)
These bugs are fresh to me, I've been using Outliner for a few versions now. They seem to occur consistently with a large number of objects/layers being displayed.
(See attached screenshot)
This only seems to occur with a large number of objects and usually when you have to scroll down to see the rest of the list (using any scrolling method, including the scrollbars)
(See attached screenshot)
It doesn't seem to be after a specific action. I created a fresh scene and was able to reproduce the bug by duplicating a bunch of boxes and creating several layers. This naturally occurs in any of my old scene files that have a large number of objects (but small scene files behave just fine). Also, restarting Outliner\Max doesn't fix this.
The layer\object that's invisible seems to depend on its position in the window and can be different depending on what you have expanded or if you add or remove objects, it seems to occur in roughly the same positions of the window (moving or resizing the window doesn't change this)
Edit: drivers are up to date
I'll look into it. If in the meantime you notice any more patterns in when/how it occurs, do let me know
This update fixes a .NET exception that occurs when opening a scene while the Outliner is opened.
Detach one Tab from Graphite Modelling and move it onto the outliner panel.
Max will crash.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Btw a few days ago I installed Outliner at work using Max 2010 x86 but I notice sometimes Outliner just blank, not even the default 0 layer, after restart Outliner then only it shows correctly (I leave Outliner to default open when Max start), is it because the scene previously saved without Outliner open in Max? not sure..
PJ, this current version of Outliner still didn't play along with the "layer cleaner" script that I posted earlier. But no worries because now the Delete button from right-click context menu in Outliner work for layers too, just like you promised..hehe thanks dude!
_Revel
What Max version are you using? cus I tried here using Max 2011 x64, having TexTools open and drag Outliner out from the docking position (left and right) it's all fine.
_Revel
I don't think it's because the scene was saved without the Outliner. But I'm not sure what it could be. Does it happen with specific scenes, or 'at random' ?
I know that it doesn't work with that layer cleaner script, and there's nothing I can do about that, it's a maxscript limitation. The workflow tools contains a similar script that does update the Outliner appropriately.
I used Max 2011 x32. Will try it out on the 64bit version tonight.
Strange that it doesn't crash on your computer.
I can't say much about that now because today I was working with the scene that I already saved with Outliner installed and no problem at all. Will try some more scene that have not saved with Outliner next week and I'll confirm to you what's the result later.
@Nysuatro
Did you have any other script installed? cus if I'm not mistaken Illusion Catalyst's docking system not playing very nice with Outliner's docking system (I'm not sure whether they have any fix for this issue yet or not).
_Revel
@michi.be: I've had a quick look at the graphite drag&drop crash, and it happens for me too. But there's nothing I can do about it; not sure what's going wrong, but I reckon that it's not an Outliner problem. I don't think that it's a big problem either, it's a rare situation.
_Revel
_Revel
I was running into one bug and I'm not sure if it was the scene I was working in or if it was something you fixed in outliner but its gone now. Whenever I would launch outliner it would hide cameras lights and helpers. I went to recreate it this morning to help troubleshoot and document it, and its fine... I'll be sure to let you know if it starts happening again but for now, thanks for fixing the bug before I even mentioned it heh =P
Could it be that the filter and the "affect viewport" option was on by mistake?
I'm not sure if it remembers those settings or if reverts back to defaults on a new install. I remember having to set it to layer mode, stretch and dock it again which I didn't have to do with past updates that I just let it download and install automatically.
Actually, a manual uninstall will remove the preferences file. Maybe that should be optional, coming to think of it.
_Revel
Drop me a PM (with your email address) or email if you'd like to help out. Thanks!
* Added location and hide option for search bar.
* Improved update functionality:
- Updates can be skipped.
- It's possible to get beta versions if they are available by unchecking the 'skip trial versions' in the options dialog.
- For future updates, the changelog will be displayed in the update dialog.
* When uninstalling manually, the preferences file can be preserved. (Automatic uninstallation as part of an update always preserves preferences).
Use the update function in the Outliner's options dialog to get it, or alternatively download it directly.
This will be the last version that supports 3dsmax 2008. More about that later.
- Over the past month and a half, I've been collecting some (anonymous) statistics from the update requests. It turns out that only around 2,2% of the Outliner users use 3dsmax 2008, which in absolute terms is about 20 people. Because this is such a low number, I have decided to make a few changes under the hood which are supported in maxscript 2009 and above, to improve performance and stability.
This means that version 2.0.94 will be the last update for 2008 users. There may possibly be patches for bugs, but no new features. Anticipating this, the update mechanism in 2.0.94 will take the 3dsmax version into account when looking for updates.
- I've been thinking about the possibility of having multiple treeviews opened at the same time. For example, you could have the Outliner split horizontally, and have a treeview in hierarchy mode at the top, and one in layer mode at the bottom. Or perhaps there could be several separate windows with trees opened simultaneously. Since horizontal screen-space is probably more available than vertical screen-space, especially with a dual monitor setup, right?
Dragging & Dropping between trees should be possible too. It will require a lot of work and adjustments, but I think that it could be very useful.
If you guys have thoughts or ideas on this, I'd be very interested to hear it!
- And finally, I've decided to bite the bullet and write a short 'user documentation' for the Outliner. The main purpose for this is to have a way for new users to find out about the more hidden little features (e.g. holding the ctrl key to expand entire hierarchy)
agreed!