yep, that's what i meant good sir
The scene explorer has this option. It's just in some situations, easier to localize an object this way.
I just spent 10 minutes on implementing the flat object list, it was really easy in the new architecture So that will be in version 3.0.
The selection-set mode will definitely require more thought, as I explained in a previous post. But I will certainly take a look at it.
oh great !
Thank you Monsieur ! :thumbup:
I coudn't remember an example last time as my brain was melting after work :poly142:
It's useful to have a flat hierarchy when you want to, let's say, select all objects with their name starting by "plane"
So you type plane in the search field.
-With the hierarchy mode on, you have to unfold the nodes, select them one by one etc...
-With a flat hierarchy, the selection is straightforward, and if it took only 10min to implement, it deffo worthed it.
Now, the selection sets ! Oooh yeah, that would be great. I use selection sets for everything, but mainly batch exporting. Selection set manipulation is tedious, even with maxcript. Didn't find a command to add and remove nodes, i have to delete and create a new set each time. But i'm a poor coder...:\
This will also be a plus compare to zookeeper.
This, and the fact that when i open the outliner, i don't have the feeling to be in front of that:
oh great !
Thank you Monsieur ! :thumbup:
I coudn't remember an example last time as my brain was melting after work :poly142:
It's useful to have a flat hierarchy when you want to, let's say, select all objects with their name starting by "plane"
So you type plane in the search field.
-With the hierarchy mode on, you have to unfold the nodes, select them one by one etc...
-With a flat hierarchy, the selection is straightforward, and if it took only 10min to implement, it deffo worthed it.
You can actually press the 'enter' key to select all nodes found when using the name filter
Now, the selection sets ! Oooh yeah, that would be great. I use selection sets for everything, but mainly batch exporting. Selection set manipulation is tedious, even with maxcript. Didn't find a command to add and remove nodes, i have to delete and create a new set each time. But i'm a poor coder...:\
Had a quick stab at it, how does this look?
The top tree is in hierarchy mode, bottom one in selection-set mode.
This will also be a plus compare to zookeeper.
This, and the fact that when i open the outliner, i don't have the feeling to be in front of that:
I know, minimalism is the way to go for tools you want to keep open, imo Actually version 3.0 of the Outliner will have no buttons in the main UI at all, just the treeview(s), as in the screenshot above.
I'm wondering where the flat list option should get in the UI. I was seeing it like an option of hierarchy treeview, but it could be a new mode like how you've done it.
Also, the selection set makes me drool. The way you could hide and freeze object there too is cool, i didn't think about it. But more important, direct selection !
The + and - buttons actually in the manage selection set window are useful (or at least the +, objects can still be removed via contextual menu)
You could add tiny buttons like you did on layer mode.
Also, copy/paste and cut/paste option would be interesting to move objects between sets. It actually works in the manage selection set with drag/drop(cut/paste) and ctrl+drag/drop(copy/paste)
Thanks for implementing those requests, i just hope it will be useful for other users too !
I'm wondering where the flat list option should get in the UI. I was seeing it like an option of hierarchy treeview, but it could be a new mode like how you've done it.
From an implementation point of view, having it as a separate mode is much easier. It separates all the logic of the modes, so I never have to worry in the code about 'which mode am I in, and can I now do action x'.
Also, the selection set makes me drool. The way you could hide and freeze object there too is cool, i didn't think about it. But more important, direct selection !
Yeah, direct selection will certainly be in there, just like in all the other modes. (The lack of it is a massive flaw in the default selection set dialog imo).
Speaking of selection, I'm wondering about something: Since there can me more than one representation of an object in the tree in this mode, what should happen when an object is selected in the viewport, or in another treeview? Would it be confusing if it'd select all 'copies' of that object in the selection set mode? Or should it not respond at all to 'external' selection changes (or clear the selection perhaps)?
The + and - buttons actually in the manage selection set window are useful (or at least the +, objects can still be removed via contextual menu)
You could add tiny buttons like you did on layer mode.
Excellent idea, will add that.
Also, copy/paste and cut/paste option would be interesting to move objects between sets. It actually works in the manage selection set with drag/drop(cut/paste) and ctrl+drag/drop(copy/paste)
Another good idea. Dragging in combination with pressing modifier keys could certainly work.
I'm wondering about something: Since there can me more than one representation of an object in the tree in this mode, what should happen when an object is selected in the viewport, or in another treeview? Would it be confusing if it'd select all 'copies' of that object in the selection set mode? Or should it not respond at all to 'external' selection changes (or clear the selection perhaps)?
I think selecting all instances of the object in sets is interesting (and highlighting the sets)
This way, man could easily know in which sets is the object. But do not automatically expand the sets, or it will be very confusing (put an option to do so)
Like what you've done with the layer mode, it's very good.
Another idea !
I'd like a way to identify instanced objects in treeviews.
e.g, their name could be in bold
I always have to be careful with instances to not kill them, but in large scenes, it's always a worry to identify them.
But i'd like to hear people opinions. Maybe the outliner would lost of its simplicity.
Another idea !
I'd like a way to identify instanced objects in treeviews.
e.g, their name could be in bold
I always have to be careful with instances to not kill them, but in large scenes, it's always a worry to identify them.
But i'd like to hear people opinions. Maybe the outliner would lost of its simplicity.
I definitely agree that it is difficult to identify instanced or referenced objects in 3dsmax. I'm not sure how feasible it is to do something about this in the Outliner, but I'll think about it.
More thoughts !
In the case playing with instances is feasible, can we imagine a way to indentify objects that share the same mesh ?
For example, here, when you select an instance, all the same instanced objects get their name colored or in italic. Other instanced objects remain just in bold.
don't mind the fucked up font, it's photoshop made
+
a question on ergonomy.
I'd find more logical that when you right click on a layer then, 'create a new layer', the new layer is created as a child of the selected layer.
You could still click everywhere on empty space to create a new layer that has no parenting (like it already is now)
+
in material mode, when an object is selected, i'd like its material gets highlighted (like layers). I don't use autoexpand coz i have a shit load of objects and i don't know which material is applied.
Also, weird stuff i have to investigate : I still have materials in the treeview that aren't applied anywhere. I can't see them in the material browser nor material explorer. I used a lot the drag and drop.
Also, maybe you prefer email or pm to centralize feedbacks ?
I would like an option to switch between two "filter" modes. Currently you can enter a string above the list and the then it will be filtered. But the name has to be exact - means if you enter "list" an item named "myList" will not be showed because for that you have to enter "*list". Personally i like it more that way, that my entered string is just searched in the list - independent of the position in the object name.
A question about the selectionset mode: Should there be a list of all objects not in any selectionset, like the 'unassigned' material node? When having a single treeview this might make sense, but when having multiple trees open it might only get in the way?
More thoughts !
In the case playing with instances is feasible, can we imagine a way to indentify objects that share the same mesh ?
For example, here, when you select an instance, all the same instanced objects get their name colored or in italic. Other instanced objects remain just in bold.
Interesting idea! I will look into that. It should be possible to do it somehow, but I think that the trick will be in implementing it in such a way that it doesn't slow things down.
a question on ergonomy.
I'd find more logical that when you right click on a layer then, 'create a new layer', the new layer is created as a child of the selected layer.
You could still click everywhere on empty space to create a new layer that has no parenting (like it already is now)
Yes I agree with that, I will add that.
in material mode, when an object is selected, i'd like its material gets highlighted (like layers). I don't use autoexpand coz i have a shit load of objects and i don't know which material is applied.
Makes sense, I'll add that too.
Also, maybe you prefer email or pm to centralize feedbacks ?
Either way works for me. Having the ideas on the forum might be nice if there's some discussion about them.
I would like an option to switch between two "filter" modes. Currently you can enter a string above the list and the then it will be filtered. But the name has to be exact - means if you enter "list" an item named "myList" will not be showed because for that you have to enter "*list". Personally i like it more that way, that my entered string is just searched in the list - independent of the position in the object name.
lol i can't decide wether the unassigned node for the selection set is useful or not. Sure it would complicate the UI, but it's also an easy way to check if you forgot to include an object.
a "+" for the material mode, like layers would be most welcome to assign a mat to an existing selection
bug?
If an object has no name, it can't be selected through the outliner. Well, yeah, it's not supposed to happen but i have accidentaly deleted an object name at some point and cudn't select it in the tree.
lol i can't decide wether the unassigned node for the selection set is useful or not. Sure it would complicate the UI, but it's also an easy way to check if you forgot to include an object.
Maybe I'll leave it out for now, since it's a bit more work than for the materials (objects actually don't have a reference to the selection sets). And then we can see how it feels in the beta.
a "+" for the material mode, like layers would be most welcome to assign a mat to an existing selection
I can add that too.
bug?
If an object has no name, it can't be selected through the outliner. Well, yeah, it's not supposed to happen but i have accidentaly deleted an object name at some point and cudn't select it in the tree.
Nice one I can easily fix that by displaying something like -unnamed- when an objects name is empty.
The default layer can't be nested by drag&drop (which to me is logical as it shudn't be used for proper organisation)
BUT it can be nested in another layer via the "+" button.
And then, ofc no way to remove it as drag and drop is desactivated !
Not much trouble as i have nothing in it, but it's just an unwanted behavior.
dutch, it looks like a refresh bug, just close and open the outliner to get it right, no need to restart max.
Bug ! Took time to discover how to reproduce it ^^
-create an object
-in the material mode, select its material (unassigned by default) and click "select childnodes"
(edit: there you can do anything, deselect object, add modifiers, delete everything, whatever...)
-go to layer mode
-right click to create a new layer, nothing happens (it deselect objects if selected)
-right click again and "create a new layer"
TWO layers are created at the same time, each time you do this manipulation.
edit : each time you use the select childnode in the material mode, you will have this bug with the layers, whatever manipulations you make, between both actions.
just a quick update of what's been going on with the Outliner lately.
First off I've made the source code available under the new BSD open source license. You can find it on the google code page for the project, here: http://code.google.com/p/outliner/source/browse/
The current working revision can be found in "trunk", previous versions as well as the development branch can be found under "branches".
In addition to this I've decided to use the "issues" feature on google code to track the issues with the Outliner. This way you can have a look at what's going on with problems you have reported. I will add the issues that have been reported in this thread to that list as well. http://code.google.com/p/outliner/issues/list
And finally, I've been fixing a number of things for an upcoming release. Most notably the docking issues will be fixed.
One issue I am a bit puzzled by however, is this: http://code.google.com/p/outliner/issues/detail?id=12
From the crash reports it would seem as though something happens sometimes when exiting isolate selection mode. But I can't seem to reproduce the error. So if anyone could help me with that, it'd be great.
There's a couple of workflow items I was hoping you could address. When you right-click on an empty area of the Outliner, it clears the selection. I typically like to select the objects I'm going to add to a new layer, then create the layer.
The wildcard search doesn't give the same results as the default Scene Explorer. For example, if I search for "*bone*" It doesn't return objects that begin with the word "bone". Also, "Bone*Hip" doesn't return an object named "Bone L Hip" or "Bone R Hip". The default Scene Explorer returns a selection that I think is more natural.
It's up to you if you want to produce the same results as the Scene Explorer. But it seems like that would be the best step to take if you want to replace the Scene Explorer, Layer Manager, and Selection Set editor with one tool.
I've put up a first test version: 2.0.97 beta1. To get it, either:
* Uncheck "skip trial versions" in the options menu and click "check now", or
* Download it through the website and install manually.
If you're testing it, please have a look at the list of bugfixes, and verify that they are indeed fixed. I will tweak the changelist page a bit so it will automatically link to the corresponding issue report.
@cptSwing: This idea has been discussed a few times before, and technically it is possible. However, there are some consequences of a 'hybrid' view with layers and hierarchy that may make it rather confusing. For example, how should it handle hierarchies that are distributed over more than 1 layer? E.g. an object is on layer A, while its parent is on layer B. Should the object be shown on layer A or B? Or should a sort of 'ghost-node' for the parent be created under layer A, under which the object is put?
And what should happen if you move only part of a hierarchy to another layer? Should it move only the selected objects, or the entire hierarchy?
And so on. I believe that although it sounds very interesting at first glance, it would come with so many peculiarities that it would not be as useful as you would hope it to be.
Glad to see this is going strong! Couldn't use max without this now.
Now, this might be one of the most stupid questions I've asked on this forum, but how do I detach outliner from the side of the max? I attached it by accident now I have no idea how to make it a floating window again.
@cptSwing: This idea has been discussed a few times before, and technically it is possible. However, there are some consequences of a 'hybrid' view with layers and hierarchy that may make it rather confusing. For example, how should it handle hierarchies that are distributed over more than 1 layer? E.g. an object is on layer A, while its parent is on layer B. Should the object be shown on layer A or B? Or should a sort of 'ghost-node' for the parent be created under layer A, under which the object is put?
And what should happen if you move only part of a hierarchy to another layer? Should it move only the selected objects, or the entire hierarchy?
And so on. I believe that although it sounds very interesting at first glance, it would come with so many peculiarities that it would not be as useful as you would hope it to be.
Yeah, basically Parent/Child objects would need to be restricted to the same layer. wouldn't bother me, but i'm sure it would go against certain design philosophies within 3ds max..?
Yes, not allowing hierarchies to be spread over multiple layers is a rather large restriction. And I believe this would also undermine the purpose of the layer somewhat.
I could give the 'ghost nodes' a quick go in the new dev version, just to see how it looks. But I don't think it will be a realistic expectation for a new list mode.
Glad you're back in the air Pier w00t w00t
What would be the point of an hybrid mode ? If you want to hide/select or whatever a whole hierarchy, you can do it in hierarchy mode. A layer should have no hierarchy imo.
+ i assume it will possible in the future version(s) to display a double window with the hierarchy mode + layer mode a la Maya.
Here at Nadeo we create a dummy that is taking place of an artificial layer, like this we're able to see hierchies inside the scene explorer (hierarchy mode for the outliner).
We will for exemple create a Dummy Root called "Plants" that is the parent of "Plant01, Plant02, Plant03" objects wich are parents of "Leaf01, Leaf02, Leaf03" etc ...
We should create a layer called "Plants" but we prefer to create an artificial layer with a dummy called "Plants" this way we can have both the power of Hierarchies and layer.
You should maybe be able to create a kind of "layer" inside the scene explorer that can be called whatever you want (im sure youll find a super cool name for that feature) --> This will just be an invisible dummy into the viewport but visible inside the outliner "Hierarchy mode".
This will be something new that will not replace "layers" or "groups".
But will allows user to create "Artificial layers" with a "Root dummy" invisible inside the 3d view but visible inside the Outliner hierarchy mode :-)
After that you'll just have to develop a function that will allow the user to hide an entire hierarchy inside the "hierarchy mode" with just one click --> shift clicking on the visibility icon of the roots "Plants". (for exemple).
This will be relly nice and clean --> This is i think the good answer to the users demand.
I love your "Hide group content in layer mode" option. but i think that this can be improved to --> "Hide group content in layer mode when the group is closed".
This way users will be able to show the group content just by opening the group, and they will be able to hide the content by closing it. --> Smart and clean.
A closed group will have the name "[Group]" while an open group will be shown as "Group". So for exemple "[Plants]" if closed "Plant" if open.
Some very nice ideas there Cathodeus! I'll definitely take a closer look at them later. For now I'm concentrating on getting bugs fixed for the upcoming 2.0.97 release.
After that I will turn my attention to to version 3.0, which will have many changes and I might be able to include your suggestions in this too.
Here's a question I posted on CGTalk that I would be interested to hear your opinions on:
Would you guys think it could be useful to have the Outliner as an extended viewport? Since it is not possible to have both a dockable window and extended viewport, I can imagine making an option where one can choose the way to use the Outliner. It could have 3 options: floating window only, dockable window, extended viewport.
By my side that would be dockable window but "resizable" when "Docked". Actually we cannot resize the outliner one docked. i don't even know if it's possible, i don't think so ...
But i sometime i got future sight and i can tell that "extended viewport" will become important ! Really important !
Keep up the work on Outliner, I use it everyday and its so essential. Great job and I hope you stay motivated on this project.
As for the 3 option dockable window, I think it would be great. I'm one of those guys that actually use 3 monitors, so I like having a scene manager / layers window on the left while I handle uv's on the right with Renderhjs' textools. I don't mind switching between H for the dock, but it does take up some good real estate. Having it an extended viewport wouldn't be a bad idea.
Right, I've uploaded a new beta version: 2.0.97 beta2. It includes 5 new fixes: http://script.threesixty.nl/outliner/index.php/changelog
It'd be great if you could give it a try and see if you can verify that these issues have indeed been fixed!
If you're not skipping trial updates you should get the new version automatically, otherwise you can download it manually from the website
I had planned to include a fix for the merge / xref issue too, but this problem turns out to be a tough nut to crack. It would in fact seem that it is an issue in 3dsmax that is causing it, and not an issue in the Outliner specifically. For more info on that, check this thread.
So, I hope you'll enjoy this little update, and let me know how it goes!
Pjanssen, It seems that updating the Outlliner uninstalls the Workflow tools.
Another feature I would like to see is an option to install to the 3D Max folder instead of the UserScript folders. At work we work on several projects, and each project re-assigns the UserScript/Macro/Startup folders.
I understand if it's not possible. Thanks for all your hard work.
Pjanssen, It seems that updating the Outlliner uninstalls the Workflow tools.
Noted. I'll fix that.
Another feature I would like to see is an option to install to the 3D Max folder instead of the UserScript folders. At work we work on several projects, and each project re-assigns the UserScript/Macro/Startup folders.
I understand if it's not possible. Thanks for all your hard work.
Hmm, I think the UserScript directory is really the place to put it. What you could do is make your own build from the source though. http://code.google.com/p/outliner/source/checkout
Then in /maxscript/outliner_install.ms and in /maxscript/script/core.ms you can adjust the paths. That should be enough. And then run /bundle.bat to create an mzp file.
That will of course only work for the current version; you'd have to do it again (or merge an svn update to keep your modifications) for each new version.
Thanks man! I'll consider this or just installing it for each project. One has the benefit of keeping my settings, the other is that I don't have to do the merge/bundle dance for each release.
Could you guys have a look at this issue for me? http://code.google.com/p/outliner/issues/detail?id=12
Apparently the Outliner crashes when exiting (I think) isolate selection mode. I got a bunch of crash reports from it, but haven't been able to reproduce the error...
Another question. As you may know, there's a rather major issue with merging/xref-ing nested layers. And it seems that it is an issue that cannot be resolved by me unless I make a few concessions in the implementation.
So I want to know from you who use the Outliner, would it be a problem if merging and xrefing objects and possibly scenes would not include nested layers? What I mean by this is that when you have an object on a nested layer, and you merge this in a new scene, only the direct layer this object is on will be merged, not the entire layer hierarchy of this object.
Can't you import all its parent layers without hierarchy ? Put an invisible node in the parent layers so they are imported ? No way to detect a merge and reconstruct the hierarchy afterward ?
I've read the thread on cgtalk, and if you and denisT fail at it, no mortal man can do it. So while there's this problem from autodesk, i don't care to make a concession.
There are no changes compared to 2.0.97 beta2. I have decided to make this into a normal release now, so the release of all the other fixes doesn't have to wait for the nested layer issues to be resolved and tested.
As part of a larger rewrite of the nested layers, which are broken in a few ways I'll have to admit, I have made a change to the notification displayed to those not using the Outliner. It used to be an option, but I've now removed it almost entirely. Instead, if a scene with nested layer data is loaded, but the Outliner is not found, a message will be printed to the maxscript listener:
Scene contains nested layers, but the Outliner was not found.
Visit http://outliner.threesixty.nl for more information.
To remove the nested layer data, use:
outlinerNestedLayerData.removeFromScene()
And as you can see, I have added a function to the data definition itself to clean the scene from the nested layer data. I think this is the most user friendly way of dealing with data that is added to scenes, and I think I should have done this way earlier.
Also, having looked deeper into the deleting of custom attributes, I am suspicious about whether the macroscript provided with the Outliner before actually works properly. So that's where I'll turn my attention next.
Finally a question: are you guys interested in these rather more detailed and technical posts? Or should I keep them focussed on updates and things that directly affect users?
Replies
The selection-set mode will definitely require more thought, as I explained in a previous post. But I will certainly take a look at it.
Thank you Monsieur ! :thumbup:
I coudn't remember an example last time as my brain was melting after work :poly142:
It's useful to have a flat hierarchy when you want to, let's say, select all objects with their name starting by "plane"
So you type plane in the search field.
-With the hierarchy mode on, you have to unfold the nodes, select them one by one etc...
-With a flat hierarchy, the selection is straightforward, and if it took only 10min to implement, it deffo worthed it.
Now, the selection sets ! Oooh yeah, that would be great. I use selection sets for everything, but mainly batch exporting. Selection set manipulation is tedious, even with maxcript. Didn't find a command to add and remove nodes, i have to delete and create a new set each time. But i'm a poor coder...:\
This will also be a plus compare to zookeeper.
This, and the fact that when i open the outliner, i don't have the feeling to be in front of that:
Had a quick stab at it, how does this look?
The top tree is in hierarchy mode, bottom one in selection-set mode.
I know, minimalism is the way to go for tools you want to keep open, imo
Also, the selection set makes me drool. The way you could hide and freeze object there too is cool, i didn't think about it. But more important, direct selection !
The + and - buttons actually in the manage selection set window are useful (or at least the +, objects can still be removed via contextual menu)
You could add tiny buttons like you did on layer mode.
Also, copy/paste and cut/paste option would be interesting to move objects between sets. It actually works in the manage selection set with drag/drop(cut/paste) and ctrl+drag/drop(copy/paste)
Thanks for implementing those requests, i just hope it will be useful for other users too !
Yeah, direct selection will certainly be in there, just like in all the other modes. (The lack of it is a massive flaw in the default selection set dialog imo).
Speaking of selection, I'm wondering about something: Since there can me more than one representation of an object in the tree in this mode, what should happen when an object is selected in the viewport, or in another treeview? Would it be confusing if it'd select all 'copies' of that object in the selection set mode? Or should it not respond at all to 'external' selection changes (or clear the selection perhaps)?
Excellent idea, will add that.
Another good idea. Dragging in combination with pressing modifier keys could certainly work.
I think selecting all instances of the object in sets is interesting (and highlighting the sets)
This way, man could easily know in which sets is the object. But do not automatically expand the sets, or it will be very confusing (put an option to do so)
Like what you've done with the layer mode, it's very good.
Another idea !
I'd like a way to identify instanced objects in treeviews.
e.g, their name could be in bold
I always have to be careful with instances to not kill them, but in large scenes, it's always a worry to identify them.
But i'd like to hear people opinions. Maybe the outliner would lost of its simplicity.
I definitely agree that it is difficult to identify instanced or referenced objects in 3dsmax. I'm not sure how feasible it is to do something about this in the Outliner, but I'll think about it.
In the case playing with instances is feasible, can we imagine a way to indentify objects that share the same mesh ?
For example, here, when you select an instance, all the same instanced objects get their name colored or in italic. Other instanced objects remain just in bold.
don't mind the fucked up font, it's photoshop made
+
a question on ergonomy.
I'd find more logical that when you right click on a layer then, 'create a new layer', the new layer is created as a child of the selected layer.
You could still click everywhere on empty space to create a new layer that has no parenting (like it already is now)
+
in material mode, when an object is selected, i'd like its material gets highlighted (like layers). I don't use autoexpand coz i have a shit load of objects and i don't know which material is applied.
Also, weird stuff i have to investigate : I still have materials in the treeview that aren't applied anywhere. I can't see them in the material browser nor material explorer. I used a lot the drag and drop.
Also, maybe you prefer email or pm to centralize feedbacks ?
Thanks man, keep it up !
I would like an option to switch between two "filter" modes. Currently you can enter a string above the list and the then it will be filtered. But the name has to be exact - means if you enter "list" an item named "myList" will not be showed because for that you have to enter "*list". Personally i like it more that way, that my entered string is just searched in the list - independent of the position in the object name.
Interesting idea! I will look into that. It should be possible to do it somehow, but I think that the trick will be in implementing it in such a way that it doesn't slow things down.
Yes I agree with that, I will add that.
Makes sense, I'll add that too.
Either way works for me. Having the ideas on the forum might be nice if there's some discussion about them.
Good idea, I can probably work that in
a "+" for the material mode, like layers would be most welcome to assign a mat to an existing selection
bug?
If an object has no name, it can't be selected through the outliner. Well, yeah, it's not supposed to happen but i have accidentaly deleted an object name at some point and cudn't select it in the tree.
I can add that too.
Nice one
little "bug" in Layer mode :
The default layer can't be nested by drag&drop (which to me is logical as it shudn't be used for proper organisation)
BUT it can be nested in another layer via the "+" button.
And then, ofc no way to remove it as drag and drop is desactivated !
Not much trouble as i have nothing in it, but it's just an unwanted behavior.
1. create 2 boxes
2. link box 2 to box one
3. collapse box 2 to editable poly
4. attach box 1 to box 2.
result: nothing appears in outliner. have to restart max to get it to work again.
Bug ! Took time to discover how to reproduce it ^^
-create an object
-in the material mode, select its material (unassigned by default) and click "select childnodes"
(edit: there you can do anything, deselect object, add modifiers, delete everything, whatever...)
-go to layer mode
-right click to create a new layer, nothing happens (it deselect objects if selected)
-right click again and "create a new layer"
TWO layers are created at the same time, each time you do this manipulation.
edit : each time you use the select childnode in the material mode, you will have this bug with the layers, whatever manipulations you make, between both actions.
just a quick update of what's been going on with the Outliner lately.
First off I've made the source code available under the new BSD open source license. You can find it on the google code page for the project, here: http://code.google.com/p/outliner/source/browse/
The current working revision can be found in "trunk", previous versions as well as the development branch can be found under "branches".
In addition to this I've decided to use the "issues" feature on google code to track the issues with the Outliner. This way you can have a look at what's going on with problems you have reported. I will add the issues that have been reported in this thread to that list as well.
http://code.google.com/p/outliner/issues/list
And finally, I've been fixing a number of things for an upcoming release. Most notably the docking issues will be fixed.
One issue I am a bit puzzled by however, is this: http://code.google.com/p/outliner/issues/detail?id=12
From the crash reports it would seem as though something happens sometimes when exiting isolate selection mode. But I can't seem to reproduce the error. So if anyone could help me with that, it'd be great.
The Outliner is awesome. I use it everyday.
There's a couple of workflow items I was hoping you could address. When you right-click on an empty area of the Outliner, it clears the selection. I typically like to select the objects I'm going to add to a new layer, then create the layer.
The wildcard search doesn't give the same results as the default Scene Explorer. For example, if I search for "*bone*" It doesn't return objects that begin with the word "bone". Also, "Bone*Hip" doesn't return an object named "Bone L Hip" or "Bone R Hip". The default Scene Explorer returns a selection that I think is more natural.
It's up to you if you want to produce the same results as the Scene Explorer. But it seems like that would be the best step to take if you want to replace the Scene Explorer, Layer Manager, and Selection Set editor with one tool.
Rightclick clearing selection:
http://code.google.com/p/outliner/issues/detail?id=23&thanks=23&ts=1317503097
Wildcard search:
http://code.google.com/p/outliner/issues/detail?id=22&thanks=22&ts=1317502804
As for selection: you can press enter after 'completing' a search, which will select the objects found. Was that what you meant?
* Uncheck "skip trial versions" in the options menu and click "check now", or
* Download it through the website and install manually.
If you're testing it, please have a look at the list of bugfixes, and verify that they are indeed fixed. I will tweak the changelist page a bit so it will automatically link to the corresponding issue report.
@cptSwing: This idea has been discussed a few times before, and technically it is possible. However, there are some consequences of a 'hybrid' view with layers and hierarchy that may make it rather confusing. For example, how should it handle hierarchies that are distributed over more than 1 layer? E.g. an object is on layer A, while its parent is on layer B. Should the object be shown on layer A or B? Or should a sort of 'ghost-node' for the parent be created under layer A, under which the object is put?
And what should happen if you move only part of a hierarchy to another layer? Should it move only the selected objects, or the entire hierarchy?
And so on. I believe that although it sounds very interesting at first glance, it would come with so many peculiarities that it would not be as useful as you would hope it to be.
Now, this might be one of the most stupid questions I've asked on this forum, but how do I detach outliner from the side of the max? I attached it by accident now I have no idea how to make it a floating window again.
http://code.google.com/p/outliner/issues/detail?id=2
It should be fixed in 2.0.97 beta1, but please verify that and let me know!
Thanks!
Yeah, basically Parent/Child objects would need to be restricted to the same layer. wouldn't bother me, but i'm sure it would go against certain design philosophies within 3ds max..?
I could give the 'ghost nodes' a quick go in the new dev version, just to see how it looks. But I don't think it will be a realistic expectation for a new list mode.
What would be the point of an hybrid mode ? If you want to hide/select or whatever a whole hierarchy, you can do it in hierarchy mode. A layer should have no hierarchy imo.
+ i assume it will possible in the future version(s) to display a double window with the hierarchy mode + layer mode a la Maya.
Here at Nadeo we create a dummy that is taking place of an artificial layer, like this we're able to see hierchies inside the scene explorer (hierarchy mode for the outliner).
We will for exemple create a Dummy Root called "Plants" that is the parent of "Plant01, Plant02, Plant03" objects wich are parents of "Leaf01, Leaf02, Leaf03" etc ...
We should create a layer called "Plants" but we prefer to create an artificial layer with a dummy called "Plants" this way we can have both the power of Hierarchies and layer.
You should maybe be able to create a kind of "layer" inside the scene explorer that can be called whatever you want (im sure youll find a super cool name for that feature) --> This will just be an invisible dummy into the viewport but visible inside the outliner "Hierarchy mode".
This will be something new that will not replace "layers" or "groups".
But will allows user to create "Artificial layers" with a "Root dummy" invisible inside the 3d view but visible inside the Outliner hierarchy mode :-)
After that you'll just have to develop a function that will allow the user to hide an entire hierarchy inside the "hierarchy mode" with just one click --> shift clicking on the visibility icon of the roots "Plants". (for exemple).
This will be relly nice and clean --> This is i think the good answer to the users demand.
I love your "Hide group content in layer mode" option. but i think that this can be improved to --> "Hide group content in layer mode when the group is closed".
This way users will be able to show the group content just by opening the group, and they will be able to hide the content by closing it. --> Smart and clean.
A closed group will have the name "[Group]" while an open group will be shown as "Group". So for exemple "[Plants]" if closed "Plant" if open.
After that I will turn my attention to to version 3.0, which will have many changes and I might be able to include your suggestions in this too.
But i sometime i got future sight and i can tell that "extended viewport" will become important ! Really important !
As for the 3 option dockable window, I think it would be great. I'm one of those guys that actually use 3 monitors, so I like having a scene manager / layers window on the left while I handle uv's on the right with Renderhjs' textools. I don't mind switching between H for the dock, but it does take up some good real estate. Having it an extended viewport wouldn't be a bad idea.
http://script.threesixty.nl/outliner/index.php/changelog
It'd be great if you could give it a try and see if you can verify that these issues have indeed been fixed!
If you're not skipping trial updates you should get the new version automatically, otherwise you can download it manually from the website
I had planned to include a fix for the merge / xref issue too, but this problem turns out to be a tough nut to crack. It would in fact seem that it is an issue in 3dsmax that is causing it, and not an issue in the Outliner specifically. For more info on that, check this thread.
So, I hope you'll enjoy this little update, and let me know how it goes!
Another feature I would like to see is an option to install to the 3D Max folder instead of the UserScript folders. At work we work on several projects, and each project re-assigns the UserScript/Macro/Startup folders.
I understand if it's not possible. Thanks for all your hard work.
Tested the new version in max 2010. Fixes work as promised so far.
Hmm, I think the UserScript directory is really the place to put it. What you could do is make your own build from the source though.
http://code.google.com/p/outliner/source/checkout
Then in /maxscript/outliner_install.ms and in /maxscript/script/core.ms you can adjust the paths. That should be enough. And then run /bundle.bat to create an mzp file.
That will of course only work for the current version; you'd have to do it again (or merge an svn update to keep your modifications) for each new version.
Thanks! Did you try the vray issue too? (It used to happen when you create a vray sky in the environment dialog)
vray 1.5 sp4
Thanks man! I'll consider this or just installing it for each project. One has the benefit of keeping my settings, the other is that I don't have to do the merge/bundle dance for each release.
http://code.google.com/p/outliner/issues/detail?id=12
Apparently the Outliner crashes when exiting (I think) isolate selection mode. I got a bunch of crash reports from it, but haven't been able to reproduce the error...
Another question. As you may know, there's a rather major issue with merging/xref-ing nested layers. And it seems that it is an issue that cannot be resolved by me unless I make a few concessions in the implementation.
So I want to know from you who use the Outliner, would it be a problem if merging and xrefing objects and possibly scenes would not include nested layers? What I mean by this is that when you have an object on a nested layer, and you merge this in a new scene, only the direct layer this object is on will be merged, not the entire layer hierarchy of this object.
I've read the thread on cgtalk, and if you and denisT fail at it, no mortal man can do it. So while there's this problem from autodesk, i don't care to make a concession.
There are no changes compared to 2.0.97 beta2. I have decided to make this into a normal release now, so the release of all the other fixes doesn't have to wait for the nested layer issues to be resolved and tested.
Also, having looked deeper into the deleting of custom attributes, I am suspicious about whether the macroscript provided with the Outliner before actually works properly. So that's where I'll turn my attention next.
Finally a question: are you guys interested in these rather more detailed and technical posts? Or should I keep them focussed on updates and things that directly affect users?