Yeah,I read that,but I was curious about if that limit was real,for example,the sniper rifle in Deus Ex Stile inside the game,have a texture size of 512x512 O_o?
You know about some weapon inside the game with a texture size bigger than 512x512?
& here a screen of the UV packing of the grenade launcher,give me 1 hour & I put the low + AO & maybe the first "scheme test colors" ,now I want make sure to obtain the better cage possible before the bake
it might be fine if you're going to make it a v_ model. you would still need to delete all the backfacing polies, which'd still bring your triangle count down by 40-50%.
sorry guys,but I simple fail on see what's wrong with the polycount (that is 7500 tris,the cap is 8000) & the fact that the weapon doesn't show any low poly edge (that I personally think it's positive... )
v_model is a high poly model used exclusively in seeing your own weapon in your view screen. They used them in TF2 originally then stopped making new weapons with them.
I think the reason that people are criticizing your polycount is that you have a load of polys in there which are not going to improve how the weapon looks to people playing the game.
Obvious example for me would be the spring in the stock. It wont be seen in the first person view and no one in world will ever get close enough to see that detail. So you're using up people's processing power for no good reason. In the given context that's slightly crude work.
Also if you're going to have hexagonal barrels I expect to see some hexagonal 'nade models
the grenade texture should be something like 256x256??
EDIT:about the polycount,if I collapse edges for example in the cylinder or in the pipes for sure there is a visual difference,I mean,you can see a low poly silouette,but don't know if the "increased fluidity" of the game is enough to justify this,I mean,in a map we don't have something like 32 guys carrying this weapon around right?!
Decompile the existing grenades, see what Valve do, copy it.
...Then do exactly the same as regards how many vertices you're using. Decompile the default grenade launcher (plus a load of other models) and have a look at where and how Valve spend their polys.
Also, you have 3ds max set to count polys, not triangles. Open viewport configuration and in the Statisics tab check the Triangle Count box. You will see the tri count is actually about double what you thought.
EDIT:about the polycount,if I collapse edges for example in the cylinder or in the pipes for sure there is a visual difference,I mean,you can see a low poly silouette,but don't know if the "increased fluidity" of the game is enough to justify this,I mean,in a map we don't have something like 32 guys carrying this weapon around right?!
No it ABSOLUTELY justifies this. People arent playing TF2 to look at your model. They're playing it TO PLAY TF2. If the model's detail would have any impact on the game, especially in that long shot scenario you proposed, then yes, Valve would drop polys like a bad habit.
As a player of TF2 I dont care about the bells and whistles on a world model of a weapon, I just need it's silhouette so I know what I'm dealing with, which does not include a spring or curved edges. I would want to see the three barrels and the fat body. Everything else is noise. And as for the player view of the weapon, why would you leave in all of the back faces of the weapon, or any of the ones that can't ever be viewed? EXAMPLE: All of the tube polys just south of where they connect. I'm never going to see those! Why keep them?
You're kind of coming off ignorant my man, this isn't about YOUR art, it's about THE game. I don't mean to be harsh but that model could be cut down a lot and I mean a LOT without looking much different. Yes it would be more blocky up close but it wouldn't on screen and it would give much better performance.
for that model, you could get it down to.. 3-4 thousand polys without too much effort and depending on how the spring goes without being 3d, it could be even less.
& here a screen of the UV packing of the grenade launcher,give me 1 hour & I put the low + AO & maybe the first "scheme test colors" ,now I want make sure to obtain the better cage possible before the bake
Good packing, however you might want to watch your padding, remember mip maps and texture LOD scales textures from the source size, all the way down to like 32x32px. This means you'll get some really noticeable seams from the black background or other shells spilling into other texture areas.
I used to pack like this until I noticed this problem with my Half-Zatoichi, I cut the blade into 3 so that it didn't waste space on the uv, but I got huge black lines running through the blade :S So, now I pad my UV shells like crazy just so it never happens.
Ruskey and the others have a point. I know how it hurts the model visually to decrease the polycount at this point. (Notice the "Police" word on the back of my copper's helm) But valve and the other plays could care less about it since its just simply too far for them to notice. As i look at your model though, there are a lot of really small details that either doesn't have a function or just isn't seen in the impressionistic style of TF2. Right now it's really a tad too detailed. The rivets for example can be just painted on.
Now that we're talking about weapons... do I need to create a v_model?! I thought only c_models were used now :S
This is a Bioshock inspired flamethrower that didn't turn out to look so Bioshock related XD. But I quite like the first person view.
This is kind of my first completed *primary* weapon... and I've learned that cylinders eat up polys quickly!, I should've kept some of the cylinders to 12 sides or so, instead of 16. When I started I thought I was going to be able to stay under 5000 but it's a bit over 6000 tris, I still can optimize it though, hopefully I won't break the UVs layout.
Also, you have 3ds max set to count polys, not triangles. Open viewport configuration and in the Statisics tab check the Triangle Count box. You will see the tri count is actually about double what you thought.
Lol,totally wrong,I convert it to Editable Mesh for the screen, so now Polys actually shows the Tris count,that is 7550
so,what is the solution to this mipmap black line problem? I have to keep the UV shells more distant from each other? And also,there is some tool that help on keeping the right distance,like if he warns me that the uv sheel are too much close each other or something like that?
About deleting backfaces,I don't understand this,I mean,the weapon goes in the first person for the player & in the third one when the player look at another player carryng that weapon right? So,If I delete all the back,right side & front faces that you can't see in the first player view,the player still can notice all those holes & missing part looking at the weapon of another player right? :shifty:
About cutting down polys,at this point I don't care so much,I can learn that lesson without actually fossilizing myself on this model,all is done to learn & practice,so I finish this at the best of my ability & send it to valve
So next time I can do another weapon more low poly & maybe with a better design
I agree, I'm working on one as well. Looks nice, but the current head mask thing you did with it seems a little bit off. Maybe try to add some wrinkled looks and the like to it? Oh and the matches seem a tad off; dunno if they're contributing to the aesthetic honestly.
the actual mesh dosnt take much memory compared to the textures so lod's should do the trick greatly reducing the rendering cost at a distance with only a very small amount of extra memory used for the lod's meshes.
when you send it make a qc that compile it with lod's and you should be fine.
should be easy to make too just remove very small details like the bolts, than delete maybe every 2nd edge loop from rounded areas. and just be smart about the ranges like have it olny show the full non lod'ed model for first person and people that are extremely close to it.
Lol,totally wrong,I convert it to Editable Mesh for the screen, so now Polys actually shows the Tris count,that is 7550
Ok, was just checking since the modifier stack wasn't pictured. The tri count is nothing to get too worried about at this point then, especially with LODs. It just seems higher poly than it is, so take it as a compliment Is it designed to break open like the other grenade launchers, or are you going to do custom animations?
Well,actually it have some new features so probably require customs animation,I don't know absolutely nothing about animation,but maybe this could prove a "training ground" to finally learn something about.
I put some color to explain how the different pieces have to work:
So,as you can see on the bottom there is a "pump" that the demoman could use with the right mouse button to charge pressure into the weapon(this require unique sound for this weapon,the pressure sound lol).
Evey time the demoman hit the right mouse button,the 3 barrels spin around of 120° & the manometer on the front increase,showing the player how many grenade he have loaded at the same time,this because this weapon have 2 firing mode,the first is the standard grenade with the left mouse,the second fire mode is charging up to 2 time to shot 3 grenade at the same time for a wall of devastastion (but my idea was that using the second fire mode the grenade bounce even if it hits a player & scatter all around the floor,exploding after 1.5 second from when they touch the ground,or something like that) useful for make high damage in a wide area,maybe to catch hidden spy or spam on a point while enemy are capturing it
As you can see,the reload system is a bit different eheh
To balance the spam mode,it have to reload every 3 grenade & maybe is a bit slow recharging compared to the standard one
Yeah, the one you're doing is a reversed pull headgear, pulls the teeth forward. BTW i found this old looking version of one:
The one i want is the neck strap or cervical headgear:
It could serve as a misc
there's also the high pull one, found an old looking version of one of those as well:
Ah nice man, I might try making something similiar to the second pic, as I am going for a misc. The model I did was'nt very bulky because I was modelling it to look ok with a hat. I also wanted to add a chin piece to the model, but I don't think you can.
Hmm, now that I'm looking at svdl and Grimbodan+JZeeba's respective packs I'm wondering how come no one has ever thought to put a monocle on Medic. It's be perfect.
P.S. Sorry to be the idea guy again.
Well,actually it have some new features so probably require customs animation,I don't know absolutely nothing about animation,but maybe this could prove a "training ground" to finally learn something about.
I put some color to explain how the different pieces have to work:
So,as you can see on the bottom there is a "pump" that the demoman could use with the right mouse button to charge pressure into the weapon(this require unique sound for this weapon,the pressure sound lol).
Evey time the demoman hit the right mouse button,the 3 barrels spin around of 120° & the manometer on the front increase,showing the player how many grenade he have loaded at the same time,this because this weapon have 2 firing mode,the first is the standard grenade with the left mouse,the second fire mode is charging up to 2 time to shot 3 grenade at the same time for a wall of devastastion (but my idea was that using the second fire mode the grenade bounce even if it hits a player & scatter all around the floor,exploding after 1.5 second from when they touch the ground,or something like that) useful for make high damage in a wide area,maybe to catch hidden spy or spam on a point while enemy are capturing it
As you can see,the reload system is a bit different eheh
To balance the spam mode,it have to reload every 3 grenade & maybe is a bit slow recharging compared to the standard one
that looks really good,it will fit demo perfectly ::: )
Hmm, now that I'm looking at svdl and Grimbodan+JZeeba's respective packs I'm wondering how come no one has ever thought to put a monocle on Medic. It's be perfect.
P.S. Sorry to be the idea guy again.
@Grimbodan
My mistake, sorry. Out of curiosity are you going to model a monocle for Medic?
rofl, no worries. I may actually make one now that I've poked around with modeling some. Glasses replacements still aren't implemented yet, so I don't know if it'll be worth it, or if he'll have a monocle taped onto his glasses like the pyro.
Replies
Also cross-posting from facepunch:-
You know about some weapon inside the game with a texture size bigger than 512x512?
& here a screen of the UV packing of the grenade launcher,give me 1 hour & I put the low + AO & maybe the first "scheme test colors" ,now I want make sure to obtain the better cage possible before the bake
so now I go to think how to texture this
About the name,I was thinking to something like "The Badass Behavior"
o_O
Edit: Re.wind,what is a "v_model" you talk about?
I think the reason that people are criticizing your polycount is that you have a load of polys in there which are not going to improve how the weapon looks to people playing the game.
Obvious example for me would be the spring in the stock. It wont be seen in the first person view and no one in world will ever get close enough to see that detail. So you're using up people's processing power for no good reason. In the given context that's slightly crude work.
Also if you're going to have hexagonal barrels I expect to see some hexagonal 'nade models
It have to be part of this model sharing the same texture or it could be a separated object?
There are two grenade models - one for the reloading animation, one for actual projectile grenades. The reloading animation one is part of this model.
the grenade texture should be something like 256x256??
EDIT:about the polycount,if I collapse edges for example in the cylinder or in the pipes for sure there is a visual difference,I mean,you can see a low poly silouette,but don't know if the "increased fluidity" of the game is enough to justify this,I mean,in a map we don't have something like 32 guys carrying this weapon around right?!
...Then do exactly the same as regards how many vertices you're using. Decompile the default grenade launcher (plus a load of other models) and have a look at where and how Valve spend their polys.
Also, you have 3ds max set to count polys, not triangles. Open viewport configuration and in the Statisics tab check the Triangle Count box. You will see the tri count is actually about double what you thought.
No it ABSOLUTELY justifies this. People arent playing TF2 to look at your model. They're playing it TO PLAY TF2. If the model's detail would have any impact on the game, especially in that long shot scenario you proposed, then yes, Valve would drop polys like a bad habit.
As a player of TF2 I dont care about the bells and whistles on a world model of a weapon, I just need it's silhouette so I know what I'm dealing with, which does not include a spring or curved edges. I would want to see the three barrels and the fat body. Everything else is noise. And as for the player view of the weapon, why would you leave in all of the back faces of the weapon, or any of the ones that can't ever be viewed? EXAMPLE: All of the tube polys just south of where they connect. I'm never going to see those! Why keep them?
for that model, you could get it down to.. 3-4 thousand polys without too much effort and depending on how the spring goes without being 3d, it could be even less.
Good packing, however you might want to watch your padding, remember mip maps and texture LOD scales textures from the source size, all the way down to like 32x32px. This means you'll get some really noticeable seams from the black background or other shells spilling into other texture areas.
I used to pack like this until I noticed this problem with my Half-Zatoichi, I cut the blade into 3 so that it didn't waste space on the uv, but I got huge black lines running through the blade :S So, now I pad my UV shells like crazy just so it never happens.
This is a Bioshock inspired flamethrower that didn't turn out to look so Bioshock related XD. But I quite like the first person view.
This is kind of my first completed *primary* weapon... and I've learned that cylinders eat up polys quickly!, I should've kept some of the cylinders to 12 sides or so, instead of 16. When I started I thought I was going to be able to stay under 5000 but it's a bit over 6000 tris, I still can optimize it though, hopefully I won't break the UVs layout.
I appreciate any comments/suggestions
Lol,totally wrong,I convert it to Editable Mesh for the screen, so now Polys actually shows the Tris count,that is 7550
so,what is the solution to this mipmap black line problem? I have to keep the UV shells more distant from each other? And also,there is some tool that help on keeping the right distance,like if he warns me that the uv sheel are too much close each other or something like that?
About deleting backfaces,I don't understand this,I mean,the weapon goes in the first person for the player & in the third one when the player look at another player carryng that weapon right? So,If I delete all the back,right side & front faces that you can't see in the first player view,the player still can notice all those holes & missing part looking at the weapon of another player right? :shifty:
About cutting down polys,at this point I don't care so much,I can learn that lesson without actually fossilizing myself on this model,all is done to learn & practice,so I finish this at the best of my ability & send it to valve
So next time I can do another weapon more low poly & maybe with a better design
I agree, I'm working on one as well. Looks nice, but the current head mask thing you did with it seems a little bit off. Maybe try to add some wrinkled looks and the like to it? Oh and the matches seem a tad off; dunno if they're contributing to the aesthetic honestly.
it is pretty easy to just delete some edge loops from the rounded bits and remove small elements for lods.
I like this Idea,I think I could go for it
So Valve accept If I send more than one model?!
most of valves models use lods so why not.
the actual mesh dosnt take much memory compared to the textures so lod's should do the trick greatly reducing the rendering cost at a distance with only a very small amount of extra memory used for the lod's meshes.
when you send it make a qc that compile it with lod's and you should be fine.
should be easy to make too just remove very small details like the bolts, than delete maybe every 2nd edge loop from rounded areas. and just be smart about the ranges like have it olny show the full non lod'ed model for first person and people that are extremely close to it.
Can you know a tutorial that can explain me the thing?
well have you ever compiled a model for the source engine?
also you got time to learn that part anyways since your not ready to bring it in engine yet are you?
sound good, if you need helping writting the QC or comepile i can help and im sure there are lots of others here that can do the same.
Ok, was just checking since the modifier stack wasn't pictured. The tri count is nothing to get too worried about at this point then, especially with LODs. It just seems higher poly than it is, so take it as a compliment
I put some color to explain how the different pieces have to work:
So,as you can see on the bottom there is a "pump" that the demoman could use with the right mouse button to charge pressure into the weapon(this require unique sound for this weapon,the pressure sound lol).
Evey time the demoman hit the right mouse button,the 3 barrels spin around of 120° & the manometer on the front increase,showing the player how many grenade he have loaded at the same time,this because this weapon have 2 firing mode,the first is the standard grenade with the left mouse,the second fire mode is charging up to 2 time to shot 3 grenade at the same time for a wall of devastastion
As you can see,the reload system is a bit different eheh
To balance the spam mode,it have to reload every 3 grenade & maybe is a bit slow recharging compared to the standard one
really depends if valve likes the model and idea enough to put hte extra work in.
edit: that is some pretty sweet modeling by the way just got a look at the wires and it is nice.
Ah nice man, I might try making something similiar to the second pic, as I am going for a misc. The model I did was'nt very bulky because I was modelling it to look ok with a hat. I also wanted to add a chin piece to the model, but I don't think you can.
Collaborative effort by Hawt Koffee and I.
P.S. Sorry to be the idea guy again.
that looks really good,it will fit demo perfectly ::: )
It's basically a Colt Navy with a shotgun barrel.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, current count is 1653 polys/3256 tris.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1361750#post1361750
No, just no. Roninmastermix has already done a super engi set.
My mistake, sorry. Out of curiosity are you going to model a monocle for Medic?
10/10 awesome it fits so perfectly, if this doesn't get in game I will be severely disappointed.
Im on about that the Engineer already has too many items, do some other classes already!
rofl, no worries. I may actually make one now that I've poked around with modeling some. Glasses replacements still aren't implemented yet, so I don't know if it'll be worth it, or if he'll have a monocle taped onto his glasses like the pyro.