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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • Ottomotto
    Hi, I'd like some help with a part im working on. I'm using 3ds max and turbosmooth, and I can't figure out how to do the topology without getting deformation. 
    This is the best way i could come up with but obviously its not working. 

    and here's the turbos smoothed result:

    ideally I'd want the highlight to be more or less straight. 

    Here's a photo of what I'm modelling at the closest angle I could get:


    Thanks!
  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    @ottomotto your inline(control) edge at the base of the transition area is too tight. To get a more blended soft transition you will need to move some verts further away. Also, don't obsess over the 'all-quad fraud'. Sometimes tris and n-gons suit the topology better.

    As Voltaire once said: 'Eventually all n-gons and triangles in sub-division modeling revert to their intrinsic state: quads.'

  • Ottomotto
    musashidan Thanks, that's already helped, but I still cant figure out how to work this much denser area into the rest of the topology, adding more loops makes creases, and making triangles makes the surface lumpy.

    Triangle approach
    subdivided:


    Adding loops approach:

    subdivided


  • Ottomotto
    Thanks for the help everyone, I'll give all these things a try.
  • perna
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    perna quad damage
    @Shaz_Snow

    Here I see issues:

    7 problems marked.
    1 problem in execution: Flow
    2 problems created by flow problem: Poles and chaos (?)

    Now: One problem, one solution. Address flow early, not like dishes you left to clean "tomorrow". Problems just multiply and come back to bite you in the beehive.

    With real patience we come to understand the underlying structure of something, making it easy. We don't ever get "good" at something, we just realize how easy it is.

    I hope I'm helping you solve this. If it's urgent I'll draw my suggestions.

    edit: the green lines show my attempt to understand your flow.


  • Mad_Llama
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    Mad_Llama polycounter lvl 2
    Damn @perna  that's deep. teaching both philosophy and modeling at the same time you're the man 
  • AlbinoEgg
    New to modeling. Currently im focusing on bringing my polycount down as low as possible but I dont understand on when its okay to use triangles and when I should only be using quads. As an example, I am modeling a cactus and will be using a normal map for all of the detail (which I will be sculpting in ZBrush). Right now I have two versions of it:
    1.) all quads
    2.) triangles and quads (In Maya I used Mesh>Reduce)

    Which one is better? I understand that its important for the topology to be spread evenly, I feel that #2 looks more even. Thoughts?


  • sacboi
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    sacboi ngon master

    ^ No, doesn't matter.

  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    AlbinoEgg said:
     I should only be using quads.

    Spread the word to fellow beginners: this is the biggest fallacy in modeling. Learning WHY is the important bit.
  • Ottomotto
    musashidan Thanks, that's already helped, but I still cant figure out how to work this much denser area into the rest of the topology, adding more loops makes creases, and making triangles makes the surface lumpy.

    Triangle approach
    subdivided:


    Adding loops approach:

    subdivided


  • Ottomotto
    musashidan Thanks, that's already helped, but I still cant figure out how to work this much denser area into the rest of the topology, adding more loops makes creases, and making triangles makes the surface lumpy.

    Triangle approach
    subdivided:


    Adding loops approach:

    subdivided


  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    @Ottomotto you're over-complicating it. Look at mine or Perna's topology. It's simpler and it works.
  • triton
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    triton polycounter lvl 2
    Hi,
    How do you guys make a hole in a cylinder shape without the strange effect on the edges? see the attached picture please.
    How do you make very smooth edges for the hole?

  • Sergey85
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    Sergey85 null
    Show the current edge.
  • triton
  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    It's not a strange effect on the edge. Think about what you've done. You've added an inset edge along the length of the curve. This changes the silhouette of the circumference. Remove the inset edgeloop.
  • triton
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    triton polycounter lvl 2
    It's not a strange effect on the edge. Think about what you've done. You've added an inset edge along the length of the curve. This changes the silhouette of the circumference. Remove the inset edgeloop.

    Thank you, I did remove it and it's better now.
  • jakemoyo
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    jakemoyo polygon
    I'm having a problem that i think has more to do with my fundamental misunderstanding of SubD modeling than the difficulties of this specific modeling task. How would i go about inserting this type of detail into a cylindrical form without disturbing every other part of the mesh? I'm trying to adhere to the angular form of the inset shape while still maintaining the cylindrical shape. Every method is problematic. I'm sure there's a way to do it but I'm unsure where to go.


  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 3
    Need some help in modeling.

    Doing a bottle, its with diamond shape, I did diamond shape and inner extrude each polygon. but when I apply HyperNurbs, it goes round shape, any idea how can U keep edges hard in diamond shape and where to add supporting edges to get diamond hard edges...?

    Thanks.
     
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10

    tightness of the edges defines sharpness of the pattern later on

    bend into cylinder, or along a circle



    ffd modifier/lattice into form


  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb polycounter lvl 3

    tightness of the edges defines sharpness of the pattern later on

    bend into cylinder, or along a circle



    ffd modifier/lattice into form


    Thanks you so much. regards.
  • Ottomotto
    Hi again, I'm making a car door hole and for some reason I get a crease around the edge. Also the OpenSubdiv modifier pulls loops together in a few spots for no reason as far as I can tell, the crease is set to 0. This model is for real time / game so I wouldn't want to subdivide any more.

    This is the unwanted crease / highlight:

    This is the topology, all edges have no crease value:


    Here you can see where some verts have been pulled together for some reason:


    Low poly:


    Thanks!
  • Mohamed_Salah_Bchir
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    Mohamed_Salah_Bchir polycounter lvl 2
    Hello! Does anyone know how can i project that logo onto the surface, does it involve baking? because i haven't learnt baking yet. and if there other ways? thanks!

  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    @Mohamed_Salah_Bchir project it as what? A mesh or a texture? There are easy ways to do both. What programs are you using?
  • Mohamed_Salah_Bchir
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    Mohamed_Salah_Bchir polycounter lvl 2
    @musashidan I prefer a texture, I'm using 3DS Max, thank you!
  • TannedBatman
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    TannedBatman polycounter lvl 2
    Hey just wondering what people think about this. I have decided to model a vehicle and was wondering what you think about the topology. The model is not for a game but for a rendered shot however I still doesn't seem professional despite looking fine once clicked off the model. Obviously there are areas which are ngons but I haven't fixed them yet I will later.
  • sacboi
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    sacboi ngon master
    ^ Initially when blocking out a vehicular biased model, using tri's and ngons are fine in specific regions of the mesh but I'd caution against random placement without I assume, taking into account further likely reedits once subdivisions (smoothing) is applied, namely either maintaining hard edges or testing crease values...etc. 

    Basically a progressive iteration process until a level of desired quality is reached. Anyway effectively generating a simple well thought out topology would be the optimal workflow I'd advise.


    EDIT:
    More handy resources I've referenced for helpful modelling tips and hints:
  • earlgrey
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    earlgrey null
    Hello!. Can anyone give me some advice on how to approach this piece?

    I think of a cylinder but then im stuck here


    I just can't figure out a clean way to do it

  • sintel
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    sintel null
    Hi everyone, I've got this shading artifact when trying to boolean on a medium poly model. How could I solve this?


  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx interpolator
    sintel said:
    Hi everyone, I've got this shading artifact when trying to boolean on a medium poly model. How could I solve this?


    Delete the circles, cap the part where you made the hole. Select the entire face of the mesh and give it a smoothing group. Add Turbosmooth modififer, use 2 iterations and check use smoothing groups. Now collapse and convert to edit poly and see if you have enough segments to punch in a couple of holes.
  • Liam_CH
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    Liam_CH polycounter lvl 2
    Hey, would anyone give me some pointers with how to start modelling the seat on this ATV? I've given it a crack but I can't seem to get the contouring right, nor make it fit into the rest of the vehicle correctly.
  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    perna said:
     Identify the first instant that something goes wrong. Is it when you start the software, is it when you use a certain tool, is it when you get out of bed in the morning?
    Perna gold right there.
  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    Shaz_Snow said:
    perna studied alot of philosophy in his free time it seems.
    Perna has spent half his life on this thread and he surely feels people don't bother their arses actually reading through the thread.....
  • Alex Javor
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    Alex Javor insane polycounter
    Liam_CH said:
    Hey, would anyone give me some pointers with how to start modelling the seat on this ATV? I've given it a crack but I can't seem to get the contouring right, nor make it fit into the rest of the vehicle correctly.
    Just start trying things. Anything. Looks like a modified cube to me. That's where I'd start. 

    The only way to be a winner is to learn all the ways to be a failure. Just start trying shit so that you can find all the ways to screw up and get that part of the process out of the way. 
  • Liam_CH
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    Liam_CH polycounter lvl 2
    Let me be more specific then. I can't seem to get the contouring right, nor make it fit into the rest of the vehicle correctly. This is where my attempt was at, I had messed around with some freeform modeling with this shape before realising my method was not going to achieve proper results, and asked for advice. There is no specific tool, or getting out of bed issue I am having, more so that I am unable to find a working method which will achieve the desired shape. I really hope this helps elaborate on my issue so I can receive some pointers, thank you!
  • Alex Javor
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    Alex Javor insane polycounter
    You'll need more resolution to get it smoother. You haven't done anything wrong at all. Just continue pushing and pull vertices. Add resolution as needed.

    Do you have a sculpting program? If you even out the quads a bit by adding in some more edge loops, you can take the mesh into your sculpting app, subdivide, and easily work the shape with some basic sculpting techniques. Then you can keep the higher subdivision for baking, or just use the low as is.

    Fitting to the rest of the model shouldn't be an issue. It's a separate piece in real life -- no reason to try and tie the topology together.
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina polycounter lvl 10
    i have to admit that perna's snarky comments usually make my day
    for me it's all in good fun and the tips he gives are actually helpful for a lot of people

  • uncle808us
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    uncle808us polycounter lvl 2
    Maybe use symmetry modifier and model just one side.Then collapse and push the verts or use  taper or bend modifiers.

  • DeathstrokeFTW
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    DeathstrokeFTW polycounter lvl 4
    Hello! Does anyone know how can i project that logo onto the surface, does it involve baking? because i haven't learnt baking yet. and if there other ways? thanks!

    Hope im not late, you dont need to bake this. You can turn the logo into a stamp if you can make it in photoshop and use it while texturing.
  • musashidan
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    musashidan high dynamic range
    @Liam_CH looking at your ref quickly I cam see you need no more than 4 spans across the width and 7 down the length to block that form out. Use as little geo as is necessary and only add geo when you can't get the forms with the geo you have. A classic beginner mistake in both modeling and sculpting is to add way too much geo too early which leads to frustration, confusion, and a modeling mess.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx interpolator
    @Liam_CH looking at your ref quickly I cam see you need no more than 4 spans across the width and 7 down the length to block that form out. Use as little geo as is necessary and only add geo when you can't get the forms with the geo you have. A classic beginner mistake in both modeling and sculpting is to add way too much geo too early which leads to frustration, confusion, and a modeling mess.
    This, this is what Perna preaches everytime. Why? Because when you learn using less control points, project after project. You'll get an eye of how much you need for the next project without trial and error! This saved me with a big project a couple of months ago and til' this day, i take pictures of hard surface things on the street, go home and draw over the edgeflow over the object with as little "lines" as possible. It's such a fun excersice. Then i try it out in a 3D package and see if i understood the shape correct.
  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    I think you're doing good @perna. You're encouraging people to think about their problem, which isn't always easy, especially when they're looking for an easy answer. And that's too often the case.
  • Pryme_XIII
    Hey guys, so yeah ... I am struggling BIG TIME with this Architecture piece.
    It is part of a bigger project in a modular environment and I'm about to throw in the towel because of this
    This is the roof of the Hagia Sophia church / mosque in Istanbul.
    Below you can find a blueprint of same church.
    Now I've already tried several things.
    First I tried using booleans, but I ended up with my geometry all over the place.
    So I thought I seperate the pieces and this is what I ended up with so far.



    I took the center sphere and used the faces around its center to build the crossvault structure inbetween.
    Now the part that gives me headache is the three sperare spheres overlapping the the bordering halfs.
    FYI The radius of the center dome and it's neighbours, is about 17.5 meters = 35m diameter.
    The overlapping small ones are half of that, i.e. 8.25 meters.

    I already scaled everything down by the value four, because my maya scene would not show all of the mesh that big.
    Scaling up times 4 in Unreal should not be a problem or is there a better way to do that?

    Btw. I am still messing with the edgeflow of the vault arches. I'm planning on splitting the pars it in quarters and putting them back together in Unreal later on.


    Thanks for any help.
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