Yea, that sketch was mostly done to try and get a feel for the character a bit while all the otherones i've been tryin to find out what works best as a silouette/colour combination and whatnot, a bit boring to look at but its quicker haha
I was lurking through all of your pages saving an environment piece that inspired me about every other page or so planning on just going on about my day, but then I ended up saving so much I figured i just HAD to comment, i love a bunch of your stuff and some of my favorite are your silhouettes, and even better how you continue on the silhouettes rather than just leaving them as such. I would REALLY love to learn to silhouette as well as you do, any tips for how you do it?
Also thanks so much for some of the really awesome environment concepts, i'm an enviro artist so i'll be sure to get some use from them, and if i ever model one i'll credit you and link to your stuff!
For the most recent concept streak with the shield i really love the one of the girl in armor before it got all icy, it reminds me a lot of one of my favorite games - demon's souls, very cool and realistic but yet fantasy as well.
Thanks a lot DD! With silouettes and with all art you just gotta practice doin them, i think only now are some of them starting to get remotely interesting, and even then they take a lot longer than a thumbnail silouette should. A really good book to get for this sort of thing is;
I'd totally recommend it, they walk you through a lot of design and explain why some things are visually interesting etc.
Some assorted stuff... a Comic cover colour thingeh for The brassteapot (lineart obviously not by me, by a friend, isabella), quick sketch and a continuation on the shield design.
I like the creatures. Take more time! It would really pay out to get some good work done. That is your main probleme as I am watching your stuff now for a good time. I really like your motivation on the shield girl! Get a finished artwork done there! Will be worth it!
I hear you on the finished artwork thing... I definately need to add some more shit to my portfolio. Still, its weird and probably a motivational thing as a lot of the time i lack the drive to spend a long time polishing something. I guess it shows best with the character concept as im spending time toying with the idea itself rather than the finished product?
I know my rendering ability is still far from top level but with the aid of reference its more of a matter of time... hmm that doesnt quite explain it - If i use a study as an example i rarely spend more than 1-2hours, however if i were to spend longer i dont doubt my ability to copy and render things accurately (given the time) its just not as fun? challenging?... haha dunno.
Eitherway, i know theres things you only see after spending a great deal of time with things and im going to do a full on character illustration for this shield character now the design is pretty much down! Hopefully she looks fucking badass Thanks a bunch.
Super fucking pimp, dude. I always felt your environments and studies were vastly more vibrant and alive than your characters, which previous had a kinda awkward, stilted, overworked vibe about them to me when i saw them in p&p, but this latest stuff is out of the park.
Always an inspirational example of how much harder the rest of us should be working.
hehe gcmp, unlikely to devote a great deal of time to a photostudy ...but i might end up spending a fair few hours on a masterstudy as i feel like one of those is overdue.
Thanks a bunch sup although im really not that hard working, i really feel like i need to go back and go over all of loomis/bridgeman stuff so ive got a proper sense of anatomy in my head as i very often find my figures looking dull and stiff due to a lack of knowledge.
Hm, I am sad to have to say that, but your greyscale was way more interesting. You should really overpaint your own picture and get the really interesting shapes back. The shield is not really readable as one. It loses itself in the background. It looked sweet as one solid shape against a brighter background. Get a bit tighter in values in the character, I think it will still be readable in itself.
I think this one could work pretty well in black and white!
acapulco i know where youre coming from and i did actually overpaint it multiple times - i kept the black and white version at the top of the layers and would check it from time to time. I'd love to pick your mind with this as it bothered me a fair bit while i was working on it.
The areas in red i would keep going back to when dealing with the background - i would end up softbrushing and further knocking details out as they did nothing to really help the overall silouette stand out, and like you say, its more readable in the black and white version.
In one of my early images i overlayed a multiply layer for the character to try and add more umph to her as a whole and it worked in a way, it could be interesting to see how much i can push that and if it works for the better.
I have a friend who wanted to add another, warmer, lightsource in the foreground... however i think that would make it a bit of a clusterfuck and take it away from, what i want to be, a powerful overwealming silouette.
I think knocking the lights back on her in the bottom image helps a lot, and hopefully rendering detail on her in general - which i consider to be needed - isn't whats really causing the issue. That being said, i dont think the focus wasnt clear its just that it wasnt as strong as it was in the original sketch.
So, my OP as promised. I raised the value in the background to get better shapes, played around a little and now showing it to you. Let me know if you think its better or worse.
I dont know what that was she was standing on, but if it was snow you should spread it more over the whole picture. It looked like as it was there just for her. That seemed weird to me. As well as it was unbalanced.
Cheers man, it looks fucking rad with the amped up contrast, definately reads better! I think the light is a bit blown out, looks ab it like theres a football pitch spotlight behind her rather than a moody scene, but saying that, i'll go back at some point and emphasis the dark/light contrast as it looks nicer.
Thankies
Tinkering with shit, been monging around doing too much thinking and not enough doing.
Cheers man, theres not much of a workflow there yet really... just making a mess and seeing how it goes. Its something that sparth and co have been tinkering with and ive been looking at how they approach it;
from the brief flick through I did of your work I have to say i think your stuff is brilliant, i caught glimpses of you talking about jumping through hoops to get concepting jobs.
If it aint working out i would really like to see you sit down and write out a nice little story and just create some sort of graphic novel work. I think the talent is definately there. Sit down for 6 months make something your proud of and Amazon Ebay the hell out of it.
fades haha, i think games is the only thing for me at this point... i wouldnt mind doing something graphic novely somewhere down the line but for now im still fucking awful so seeing my stuff in a book would be weird.
thanks a bunch though!
Cheers mezz!
Makkon, you pencil wielding badass, ive no idea why id make you jealous.
thanks hammed
More studies n whatnot > perspective is interesting and not as bad as i thought it was to do studies from. (albeit inaccurate to the reference, not perspective) I want to think of a means of working that retains some looseness, as opposed to making layers for each plane/object and the rendering in primitives
Going to be playing with some ideas for the swamp thing challenge on CGHub... might replace a portfolio piece, although the problem is theres too much of the same fucking style in my portfolio. herp derp.
the master study is enjoyable yeah, max, i need to continue with it alongside this fucking swamp thing... but first i have to make this swamp thing interesting.
I've been having trouble with the composition and making him be the focus, ah well ill work it out somehow.
As far as your composition for your swamp creature goes, I guess there's just a few things I'd comment on.
Firstly, I like the focus you're going for with this piece. The blues in the eyes and the bird adds an excellent contrast element to the rest of the colour palette. Your lighting has a good start with enough to play with in the background elements. Right now, I feel like you might need more silhouette detail with your swamp creature to really push the emotional differences being portrayed.
If you're looking to have the painting focus on the monster, maybe you could put in some more dynamic lines in the composition to establish him as the focal point. You've already got a few going on with the grass and the tree, but maybe if you push it a little further with branches or flowers. Also, right now you've got a competing area of attention with the lighting contrast on the character and bird and with the swamp water directly behind them hitting the tree roots. Maybe you could play around with that some more to find a better contrast composition. I love what you have going on right now, and I know it's still early on in the game, but keep pushing this. Your idea is great with skills to match, now it's all down to execution. Good luck man.
EDIT:
I did a quick .gif to explain what I'm talking about. (also, I didn't know how to make gif's in photoshop before this so everybody wins :P)
Perfectblue - nope, painting over greyscale is tedious, i find it requires too much effort to get the results i want, i essentially have to repaint the picture entirely because i dont like mediocre job layer modes achieve. Working in monotone is relaxing though.
Thanks a lot for that paintover dude, it almost made me want to complete that picture... really liked the suggestions. It was strange actually, i looked at that with fresh eyes and had an "oh" moment.
I tried out your suggestions and continued tinkering a bit but i still wasnt comfortable with the composition. I went back, did some more sketches and tried out something a bit different.
I'm really liking the second one you posted. I feel like if you tighten up the composition and play with the perspective and lighting a bit more you could have a really interesting illustration. The rest of them have this kind of zoomed in perspective while that one makes me feel like I'm watching from a distance, like through the bushes or something at this chance encounter. Adds more character for me. That, and the overall silhouette of him just reads better in my eyes. I need to find more time to do this stuff, you're making me all anxious to paint
Cheers man! I've had some really interesting advice regarding this picture from either you or dudes over on apedogs and i think it makes for an interesting read;
Your last image on Apedogs is much better than your last one here. I completely agree what everyone was saying about your character pose being too static and I think with that quick block you've livened it up a bit.
Kind of weird going to school for technical game art and having to learn the traditional stuff on my own, but it all works out in the end. I'm learning more and more as you're doing this project through your subtle changes and your response to feedback. Feel free to drop me a skype message if you're still hung up about this.
Gotta love the Apedogs; a goldmine of knowledge and talent.
My biggest problem with the pose is that his feet point one way and shoulders another without any clear indication of twist around the midsection. It's small, but for me it's throwing the pose off. I think the new reworking of him looks better, but, personally, I liked the sitting pose the most. It made him look much more bored and lonely.
There's also something with the overall design. All of the elements on him are relatively the same size, scattered on this large (mostly proportionally human), green mass. I really liked this initial sketch. The flowers are big, growing out of his back and the side of his head making more of an inconvenience on top of him being a gross swamp monster. He looks almost annoyed like, "what else is the world going to throw at me?" I know it's just a sketch, but I'm getting more character out of him than of the current iteration.
And one last nitpicky thing: be careful of tangents. On the last one the trunk of the tree is parallel with the line from his shoulder. On the newer one you posted I could see a problem where the roots meet with that bulky part on his hand.
Just wanted to throw my two cents in and say keep at it. Your stuff is always so vivid, crisp, and a joy to look at. Definitely an inspiration for me!
Word sub, hopefully adjusting the character will fix some of the issues as i dont really have any plans to redraw it entirely again and ill just chalk it up as a learning experience.
Apedogs is fucking rad, spacey!
I really like how you used the words green mass, as thats essentially what its become... it really lacks much in terms of contrast or any real diversity of shape across the lump that is him.
Im normally pretty careful of tangents
The whole contrast thing has been floating around in my head the last few days... mainly due to reading stuff craig mullins had to say over on sijun but also from listening to his gnomon master class. It's making me realise i need to give design and shapes far more consideration as opposed to my previous focus on technique / colour, as is i think ive reached a point where they far surpass my drawing/design ability. So, less representational shit i guess, more abstract thumbnailing!
Newer shit, thinkin about redesigning some old sprites and the like > like Arne... hes such a tome of knowledge, given me some important things to consider.
Replies
Yea, that sketch was mostly done to try and get a feel for the character a bit while all the otherones i've been tryin to find out what works best as a silouette/colour combination and whatnot, a bit boring to look at but its quicker haha
More studies/sketches and fucking about.
I just push the colours around really, they practically paint themselves.
Also thanks so much for some of the really awesome environment concepts, i'm an enviro artist so i'll be sure to get some use from them, and if i ever model one i'll credit you and link to your stuff!
For the most recent concept streak with the shield i really love the one of the girl in armor before it got all icy, it reminds me a lot of one of my favorite games - demon's souls, very cool and realistic but yet fantasy as well.
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Skillful-Huntsman-Visual-Development-College/dp/0972667644[/ame]
I'd totally recommend it, they walk you through a lot of design and explain why some things are visually interesting etc.
Some assorted stuff... a Comic cover colour thingeh for The brassteapot (lineart obviously not by me, by a friend, isabella), quick sketch and a continuation on the shield design.
I know my rendering ability is still far from top level but with the aid of reference its more of a matter of time... hmm that doesnt quite explain it - If i use a study as an example i rarely spend more than 1-2hours, however if i were to spend longer i dont doubt my ability to copy and render things accurately (given the time) its just not as fun? challenging?... haha dunno.
Eitherway, i know theres things you only see after spending a great deal of time with things and im going to do a full on character illustration for this shield character now the design is pretty much down! Hopefully she looks fucking badass
Steps; http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5139/5455023784_b5b1eff3c4_b.jpg
Nice, I hope you are going to finish rendering her, do it!!
Always an inspirational example of how much harder the rest of us should be working.
Thanks a bunch sup although im really not that hard working, i really feel like i need to go back and go over all of loomis/bridgeman stuff so ive got a proper sense of anatomy in my head as i very often find my figures looking dull and stiff due to a lack of knowledge.
love you saya.
Stuff;
I think this one could work pretty well in black and white!
The areas in red i would keep going back to when dealing with the background - i would end up softbrushing and further knocking details out as they did nothing to really help the overall silouette stand out, and like you say, its more readable in the black and white version.
In one of my early images i overlayed a multiply layer for the character to try and add more umph to her as a whole and it worked in a way, it could be interesting to see how much i can push that and if it works for the better.
I have a friend who wanted to add another, warmer, lightsource in the foreground... however i think that would make it a bit of a clusterfuck and take it away from, what i want to be, a powerful overwealming silouette.
I think knocking the lights back on her in the bottom image helps a lot, and hopefully rendering detail on her in general - which i consider to be needed - isn't whats really causing the issue. That being said, i dont think the focus wasnt clear its just that it wasnt as strong as it was in the original sketch.
Doodles;
I dont know what that was she was standing on, but if it was snow you should spread it more over the whole picture. It looked like as it was there just for her. That seemed weird to me. As well as it was unbalanced.
Thankies
Tinkering with shit, been monging around doing too much thinking and not enough doing.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=201403
http://mandrykart.wordpress.com/
They make it work some real magic!
Im still just pissing around!
stuffs~
more study stuffs > trying to find a workflow that is intuitive to me when it comes to the treatment of buildings and more complex shapes.
and no, i dont have anything against painting nipples T_T
If it aint working out i would really like to see you sit down and write out a nice little story and just create some sort of graphic novel work. I think the talent is definately there. Sit down for 6 months make something your proud of and Amazon Ebay the hell out of it.
I know i would pay for your artwork.
I concur, an artbook would be in order.
thanks a bunch though!
Cheers mezz!
Makkon, you pencil wielding badass, ive no idea why id make you jealous.
thanks hammed
More studies n whatnot > perspective is interesting and not as bad as i thought it was to do studies from. (albeit inaccurate to the reference, not perspective) I want to think of a means of working that retains some looseness, as opposed to making layers for each plane/object and the rendering in primitives
Going to be playing with some ideas for the swamp thing challenge on CGHub... might replace a portfolio piece, although the problem is theres too much of the same fucking style in my portfolio. herp derp.
the master study is enjoyable yeah, max, i need to continue with it alongside this fucking swamp thing... but first i have to make this swamp thing interesting.
I've been having trouble with the composition and making him be the focus, ah well ill work it out somehow.
Some assorted quick sketches too~
[ame="
Firstly, I like the focus you're going for with this piece. The blues in the eyes and the bird adds an excellent contrast element to the rest of the colour palette. Your lighting has a good start with enough to play with in the background elements. Right now, I feel like you might need more silhouette detail with your swamp creature to really push the emotional differences being portrayed.
If you're looking to have the painting focus on the monster, maybe you could put in some more dynamic lines in the composition to establish him as the focal point. You've already got a few going on with the grass and the tree, but maybe if you push it a little further with branches or flowers. Also, right now you've got a competing area of attention with the lighting contrast on the character and bird and with the swamp water directly behind them hitting the tree roots. Maybe you could play around with that some more to find a better contrast composition. I love what you have going on right now, and I know it's still early on in the game, but keep pushing this. Your idea is great with skills to match, now it's all down to execution. Good luck man.
EDIT:
I did a quick .gif to explain what I'm talking about. (also, I didn't know how to make gif's in photoshop before this so everybody wins :P)
Thanks a lot for that paintover dude, it almost made me want to complete that picture... really liked the suggestions. It was strange actually, i looked at that with fresh eyes and had an "oh" moment.
I tried out your suggestions and continued tinkering a bit but i still wasnt comfortable with the composition. I went back, did some more sketches and tried out something a bit different.
http://apedogs.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1305
Things i dont consider enough that add character and narrative to a piece.
I intend on reworking the character quite a bit but i might have a break from it and change up the subject matter considerably.
Kind of weird going to school for technical game art and having to learn the traditional stuff on my own, but it all works out in the end. I'm learning more and more as you're doing this project through your subtle changes and your response to feedback. Feel free to drop me a skype message if you're still hung up about this.
My biggest problem with the pose is that his feet point one way and shoulders another without any clear indication of twist around the midsection. It's small, but for me it's throwing the pose off. I think the new reworking of him looks better, but, personally, I liked the sitting pose the most. It made him look much more bored and lonely.
There's also something with the overall design. All of the elements on him are relatively the same size, scattered on this large (mostly proportionally human), green mass. I really liked this initial sketch. The flowers are big, growing out of his back and the side of his head making more of an inconvenience on top of him being a gross swamp monster. He looks almost annoyed like, "what else is the world going to throw at me?" I know it's just a sketch, but I'm getting more character out of him than of the current iteration.
And one last nitpicky thing: be careful of tangents. On the last one the trunk of the tree is parallel with the line from his shoulder. On the newer one you posted I could see a problem where the roots meet with that bulky part on his hand.
Just wanted to throw my two cents in and say keep at it. Your stuff is always so vivid, crisp, and a joy to look at. Definitely an inspiration for me!
Apedogs is fucking rad, spacey!
I really like how you used the words green mass, as thats essentially what its become... it really lacks much in terms of contrast or any real diversity of shape across the lump that is him.
Im normally pretty careful of tangents
The whole contrast thing has been floating around in my head the last few days... mainly due to reading stuff craig mullins had to say over on sijun but also from listening to his gnomon master class. It's making me realise i need to give design and shapes far more consideration as opposed to my previous focus on technique / colour, as is i think ive reached a point where they far surpass my drawing/design ability. So, less representational shit i guess, more abstract thumbnailing!
Stuffs;
I sifted through a lot of Craig Mullins comments from the days when he used to post on sijun, some of those can be found @ http://apedogs.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1326
deleted some of the swampthing images from this thread, dumped it @ http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86952