I vote head mostly because I got a few head concepts lying around waiting to be done. It'd also be interesting as Cagdasx said to have everyone developing the same slot.
going to prepare the post, start preparing your concepts!!! =]
now about the voting, i think we should change the way we decide the winners, its getting too crowded the voting pool with so many items
i have to ideas and i will joing the list the new one of you guys
- we decide by the rating on the workshop (which could be unfair to the new ones)
- we define some judges (experienced guys on the workshop) that can participate but not be eligible to the winners voting, those guys can choose the winners e explain why on the post
The voting via rating is unfair for the reason you mentioned and the fact that some heros are more popular than others and some item slots are more popular than others.
I like the veteran judges approach. Maybe bring them from outside the Dota 2 PC community?
I think the real question is : is this a modeling contest or a dota 2 item contest ?
If we wanna find out who did the best model, we should have a set of workshop vets judge on which model is best made.
OR
If it is a dota 2 items contest (i'm on this side), there should not be any technical/ workshop pro approach. The general dota 2 player will probably not know my modeling headaches, my sculpt-fu, my color/value mastery or the frustrating hours trying to solve a problem/bug. The dota 2 player will look at an item, and say if he wants it to be ingame or not. Period. We can use a reddit approach to this one.
i want it to be the dota 2 player approach, as neither the players nor valve probably cares about how the process/hardness of making the item was, instead of how well it complements the hero aesthetically.
@Gamer_Alien; As I said earlier, your dota 2 player approach is flawed because item votes aren't only voted by how good they are, but how popular the hero that such item is made for. Simple examples are a good Drow/Lina item will easily beat an amazing Enchantress item any day (that example might not be correct but just as an example). Additionally, and fairly speaking here, some artists are even more popular than others which automatically yields a vote advantage regardless. Let us not forget that people can seek some communities to get votes too.
There are so many ways that the vote system in dota 2 is flawed that I highly suggest that it is avoided.
There are so many ways that the vote system in dota 2 is flawed that I highly suggest that it is avoided.
BY NO MEANS am i suggesting to use the dota 2 rating system. And I know popularity will affect the ratings ... Maybe too much.
This is an unofficial contest with the purpose of learning and sharing mainly, but if we want a realistic way to judge the items, a concoction of both player and pro judge ratings with more/veto power given to the workshop pros will be more accurate. Adding alot of stuff makes it more accurate infact. BUT ! it will also make it more complex for an individual (T_Vidotto) to handle it by himself.
The main point of this contest is learning and challenging our limits. Lets not make it about winning ...
i had another idea, some guys liked the judges voting idea, but the technical part and the game part is really important, we cannot forget that. its a DOTA ITEM CONTEST and not a MODELING contest or a COMPLEXY contest =]
So it should not be just guys from the workshop
since i dont care to win and i think its unfair for me to organize and compete i can be one of the judges on the technical part, what you guys think if i ask for some guys from the community? like casters, players and famous guys directly related to dota?
Also anyone with a good number of accepted items in game could be a judge too
i had another idea, some guys liked the judges voting idea, but the technical part and the game part is really important, we cannot forget that. its a DOTA ITEM CONTEST and not a MODELING contest or a COMPLEXY contest =]
So it should not be just guys from the workshop
since i dont care to win and i think its unfair for me to organize and compete i can be one of the judges on the technical part, what you guys think if i ask for some guys from the community? like casters, players and famous guys directly related to dota?
Also anyone with a good number of accepted items in game could be a judge too
Why don't we just do a vote like the other contests in polycount? No concept thumbnails, just ingame render.
I really wish this is how valve handled all the submissions. They have an automated system for generating thumbnails in the actual store, why not use it for the workshop too, so everyone is on the same page? the submissions should absolutely be judged based on how they look in game, and yet I have a very strong feeling that they're mostly judged by someones presentation ability for thumbnails and bullshots (I see zbrush or HQ renders a lot..), and then you see the in game model and it's mediocre, but still has shitloads of votes. It just seems backwards to me.
Well they are products I guess. Thumbnails and such get people hyped for the actual item, same with promo images, and the workshop is a great place to attract customers for future sales
I really wish this is how valve handled all the submissions. They have an automated system for generating thumbnails in the actual store, why not use it for the workshop too, so everyone is on the same page? the submissions should absolutely be judged based on how they look in game, and yet I have a very strong feeling that they're mostly judged by someones presentation ability for thumbnails and bullshots (I see zbrush or HQ renders a lot..), and then you see the in game model and it's mediocre, but still has shitloads of votes. It just seems backwards to me.
Really would not be a fan of this. A lot of the sets I make look substantially different ingame than they do in the store render. Also, it would mean that the wouldn't really be a need for illustration promo images which would be a shame. Yes, doing presentation means more work but I feel that it's still in the same vein as creating the actual item which is to say it's creative and mostly fun and not just some arbitrary bullshit you have to do. As far as the votes though, it really doesn't matter since Valve's internal decisions override the popularity contest that is the workshop any day of the week.
I have to agree with bounchfx. As a modeler i find all the illustration work a bit "meh" because thats not my field and it gives really no purpose to the actual item other then bringing votes, so i could rather spend that time on something else.
As far as the votes though, it really doesn't matter since Valve's internal decisions override the popularity contest that is the workshop any day of the week.
maybe, but they have to spot the item first to make a decision and the first page is good for this.
Really would not be a fan of this. A lot of the sets I make look substantially different ingame than they do in the store render. Also, it would mean that the wouldn't really be a need for illustration promo images which would be a shame. Yes, doing presentation means more work but I feel that it's still in the same vein as creating the actual item which is to say it's creative and mostly fun and not just some arbitrary bullshit you have to do. As far as the votes though, it really doesn't matter since Valve's internal decisions override the popularity contest that is the workshop any day of the week.
well, ideally people would all vote on the in game view only, because that's what truly matters. It just tickles me wrong because I have a feeling most do not. I could very well be wrong of course.
And after spending tons of time making the item itself, the marketing part for me is by far the worst , it's just more time thrown on top when I could be working on another item. It's great that you enjoy it but I do not find it fun personally. However in the end I understand it's current necessity in showing off your item and building hype.
And after spending tons of time making the item itself, the marketing part for me is by far the worst , it's just more time thrown on top when I could be working on another item. It's great that you enjoy it but I do not find it fun personally. However in the end I understand it's current necessity in showing off your item and building hype.
I definitely understand the feeling and also totally share it. But I also know I'm a lazy motherfucker and the promo images make me sit down and spend time on 2D which is a weak spot for me.
yep, that problem will always get back to us. We have a huge discussion months ago, with the need of admins to calm down a guy.
I think we will always need those fancy images because we need to make our item appealing, and an ingame image sometimes will not show the best of the item...
about the voting, Cyborgmatt is going to be one of the judges and he asked to send that to you guys
[9/14/2013 7:20:37 AM] Matthew "Cyborgmatt" Bailey: "It was bloody hard picking from this list, I honestly enjoyed all of the entries. Keep up the good work guys!"
Btw, can you maybe add some runner up winners. They don't have to get anything, but since it is a big list, would be nice if there were some runner ups to know who was close to winning.
huge congrats for everyone that made to the end on this month, i hope this competition is helping with the motivation and knowledge
this month we got a lot of entries and we changed a little how to pick the winners, we got 5 judges
Moose, founder of Join Dota
LD - caster and founder on BTS
Anuxi - workshop fashionist =]
Cybogmatt - weekly patch review, tutorials and now doing update party night =]
Wykr - writer of couple tutorials for dota and sharing news on his facebook page
Daniden - winner of the official polycount contest
THE WINNERS FOR THIS MONTH ARE:....
2nd place - DRUST! by Zaphk and Onilolz!
1st place - Stag of the North! by airborn studios!
Congrats to the winners! But thinking about it, don't you guys think there should be 2 separate categories for single items? One for couriers/mounts/summons which take more effort and time to create and the other one for wearable cosmetics?
bounchfx; Spudnik; Nannou;
I brought that point out lots of time. I guess we can start dev forum thread demanding every item have mandatory ingame shot made by automated means, much like the store icons. This will at least provide you with how the item actually looks ingame and solo. There's too many times people just post full set shots, disregarding how the item looks with the defaults or the other sets.
Presentation is also the cheap way to bring in votes, and as a guy who sucks at 2D i find it unjust. People don't seem to love that you managed to squeeze all that detail and shape in 300 tris, but they'll cream over the promo image.
I doenjoy creating them, but how the item looks ingame is the thing that should be top priority.
But doesn't Valve look past that? There have been countless items with crazy number of votes but were ignored by Valve since, imo, they see through the promo images. Basically nullifying this concern.
Replies
Good point
We can go head slot next month!
going to prepare the post, start preparing your concepts!!! =]
now about the voting, i think we should change the way we decide the winners, its getting too crowded the voting pool with so many items
i have to ideas and i will joing the list the new one of you guys
- we decide by the rating on the workshop (which could be unfair to the new ones)
- we define some judges (experienced guys on the workshop) that can participate but not be eligible to the winners voting, those guys can choose the winners e explain why on the post
Any other idea?
I like the veteran judges approach. Maybe bring them from outside the Dota 2 PC community?
IMO we may take top 3 items or top 5 by workshop ratings and post it on reddit as final voting.
If we wanna find out who did the best model, we should have a set of workshop vets judge on which model is best made.
OR
If it is a dota 2 items contest (i'm on this side), there should not be any technical/ workshop pro approach. The general dota 2 player will probably not know my modeling headaches, my sculpt-fu, my color/value mastery or the frustrating hours trying to solve a problem/bug. The dota 2 player will look at an item, and say if he wants it to be ingame or not. Period. We can use a reddit approach to this one.
i want it to be the dota 2 player approach, as neither the players nor valve probably cares about how the process/hardness of making the item was, instead of how well it complements the hero aesthetically.
Just want to mention this : Technically, Broodmother and spectre are females, right ?
There are so many ways that the vote system in dota 2 is flawed that I highly suggest that it is avoided.
Either way, looking forward to participate again.
BY NO MEANS am i suggesting to use the dota 2 rating system. And I know popularity will affect the ratings ... Maybe too much.
This is an unofficial contest with the purpose of learning and sharing mainly, but if we want a realistic way to judge the items, a concoction of both player and pro judge ratings with more/veto power given to the workshop pros will be more accurate. Adding alot of stuff makes it more accurate infact. BUT ! it will also make it more complex for an individual (T_Vidotto) to handle it by himself.
The main point of this contest is learning and challenging our limits. Lets not make it about winning ...
So it should not be just guys from the workshop
since i dont care to win and i think its unfair for me to organize and compete i can be one of the judges on the technical part, what you guys think if i ask for some guys from the community? like casters, players and famous guys directly related to dota?
Also anyone with a good number of accepted items in game could be a judge too
That sounds good for me
I really wish this is how valve handled all the submissions. They have an automated system for generating thumbnails in the actual store, why not use it for the workshop too, so everyone is on the same page? the submissions should absolutely be judged based on how they look in game, and yet I have a very strong feeling that they're mostly judged by someones presentation ability for thumbnails and bullshots (I see zbrush or HQ renders a lot..), and then you see the in game model and it's mediocre, but still has shitloads of votes. It just seems backwards to me.
Really would not be a fan of this. A lot of the sets I make look substantially different ingame than they do in the store render. Also, it would mean that the wouldn't really be a need for illustration promo images which would be a shame. Yes, doing presentation means more work but I feel that it's still in the same vein as creating the actual item which is to say it's creative and mostly fun and not just some arbitrary bullshit you have to do. As far as the votes though, it really doesn't matter since Valve's internal decisions override the popularity contest that is the workshop any day of the week.
maybe, but they have to spot the item first to make a decision and the first page is good for this.
well, ideally people would all vote on the in game view only, because that's what truly matters. It just tickles me wrong because I have a feeling most do not. I could very well be wrong of course.
And after spending tons of time making the item itself, the marketing part for me is by far the worst
I definitely understand the feeling and also totally share it. But I also know I'm a lazy motherfucker and the promo images make me sit down and spend time on 2D which is a weak spot for me.
I think we will always need those fancy images because we need to make our item appealing, and an ingame image sometimes will not show the best of the item...
[9/14/2013 7:20:37 AM] Matthew "Cyborgmatt" Bailey: "It was bloody hard picking from this list, I honestly enjoyed all of the entries. Keep up the good work guys!"
guys, i finished the collection with all the items!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=179056062
going to post on reddit soon
missed one
edit - same as frump, in on time but the icon broke a few days later when i updated the marketing images.
this month we got a lot of entries and we changed a little how to pick the winners, we got 5 judges
Moose, founder of Join Dota
LD - caster and founder on BTS
Anuxi - workshop fashionist =]
Cybogmatt - weekly patch review, tutorials and now doing update party night =]
Wykr - writer of couple tutorials for dota and sharing news on his facebook page
Daniden - winner of the official polycount contest
THE WINNERS FOR THIS MONTH ARE:....
2nd place - DRUST! by Zaphk and Onilolz!
1st place - Stag of the North! by airborn studios!
I brought that point out lots of time. I guess we can start dev forum thread demanding every item have mandatory ingame shot made by automated means, much like the store icons. This will at least provide you with how the item actually looks ingame and solo. There's too many times people just post full set shots, disregarding how the item looks with the defaults or the other sets.
Presentation is also the cheap way to bring in votes, and as a guy who sucks at 2D i find it unjust. People don't seem to love that you managed to squeeze all that detail and shape in 300 tris, but they'll cream over the promo image.
I doenjoy creating them, but how the item looks ingame is the thing that should be top priority.
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=167449992