Orbis / PS4
polycounter lvl 9
http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-orbis-unveiled/
Pretty powerful from the specs. Can't wait to see more of this.
It looks like they are staying away from Cell, so i hope this means developing for it will be a lot easier, and there won't be a dip when developing several SKUs at the same time. Who knows.. maybe this will be lead sku if its good enough, and easy to develop.
CPU:
Orbis contains eight Jaguar cores at 1.6 Ghz, arranged as two “clusters”
Each cluster contains 4 cores and a shared 2MB L2 cache
256-bit SIMD operations, 128-bit SIMD ALU
SSE up to SSE4, as well as Advanced Vector Extensions (AVX)
One hardware thread per core
Decodes, executes and retires at up to two intructions/cycle
Out of order execution
Per-core dedicated L1-I and L1-D cache (32Kb each)
Two pipes per core yield 12,8 GFlops performance
102.4 GFlops for system
GPU:
GPU is based on AMD’s “R10XX” (Southern Islands) architecture
DirectX 11.1+ feature set
Liverpool is an enhanced version of the architecture
18 Compute Units (CUs)
Hardware balanced at 14 CUs
Shared 512 KB of read/write L2 cache
800 Mhz
1.843 Tflops, 922 GigaOps/s
Dual shader engines
18 texture units
8 Render backends
Memory:
4 GB unified system memory, 176 GB/s
3.5 available to games (estimate)
Storage:
- High speed Blu-ray drive
single layer (25 GB) or dual layer (50 GB) discs
Partial constant angular velocity (PCAV)
Outer half of disc 6x (27 MB/s)
Inner half varies, 3.3x to 6x
- Internal mass storage
One SKU at launch: 500 GB HDD
There may also be a Flash drive SKU in the future
Networking:
1 Gb/s Ethernet, 802.11b/g/n WIFI, and Bluetooth
Peripherals:
Evolved Dualshock controller
Dual Camera
Move controller
Extra:
Audio Processor (ACP)
Video encode and decode (VCE/UVD) units
Display ScanOut Engine (DCE)
Zlib Decompression Hardware
Pretty powerful from the specs. Can't wait to see more of this.
It looks like they are staying away from Cell, so i hope this means developing for it will be a lot easier, and there won't be a dip when developing several SKUs at the same time. Who knows.. maybe this will be lead sku if its good enough, and easy to develop.
CPU:
Orbis contains eight Jaguar cores at 1.6 Ghz, arranged as two “clusters”
Each cluster contains 4 cores and a shared 2MB L2 cache
256-bit SIMD operations, 128-bit SIMD ALU
SSE up to SSE4, as well as Advanced Vector Extensions (AVX)
One hardware thread per core
Decodes, executes and retires at up to two intructions/cycle
Out of order execution
Per-core dedicated L1-I and L1-D cache (32Kb each)
Two pipes per core yield 12,8 GFlops performance
102.4 GFlops for system
GPU:
GPU is based on AMD’s “R10XX” (Southern Islands) architecture
DirectX 11.1+ feature set
Liverpool is an enhanced version of the architecture
18 Compute Units (CUs)
Hardware balanced at 14 CUs
Shared 512 KB of read/write L2 cache
800 Mhz
1.843 Tflops, 922 GigaOps/s
Dual shader engines
18 texture units
8 Render backends
Memory:
4 GB unified system memory, 176 GB/s
3.5 available to games (estimate)
Storage:
- High speed Blu-ray drive
single layer (25 GB) or dual layer (50 GB) discs
Partial constant angular velocity (PCAV)
Outer half of disc 6x (27 MB/s)
Inner half varies, 3.3x to 6x
- Internal mass storage
One SKU at launch: 500 GB HDD
There may also be a Flash drive SKU in the future
Networking:
1 Gb/s Ethernet, 802.11b/g/n WIFI, and Bluetooth
Peripherals:
Evolved Dualshock controller
Dual Camera
Move controller
Extra:
Audio Processor (ACP)
Video encode and decode (VCE/UVD) units
Display ScanOut Engine (DCE)
Zlib Decompression Hardware
Replies
Grainofsalting this.
The Ps3 has support for Zlib decompression (as does the 360 and the Wii). I'd expect it to be software, and not hardware though. The new Dual Shock is a known. I'd expect it to be OpenGL and Libgcm instead of Dx11, but to support pretty much the same feature set - because he GPU already supports it.
Poly, from what I hear, the PS4 is not backwards compatible with PS3 games.
FYI, if VGLeaks are accurate on both Durango and Orbis (and from what I know it's bang on the money), AMD have come out of this laughing.
Both machines have almost identical hardware (I wouldn't be surprised if they use the exact same motherboard and processor from the same factories). The only real difference in terms of the actual boxes is that Durango has more memory (which is squandered by leaving nearly half of it for the OS), whereas Orbis has better processing power on the GPU (which is squandered by leaving several pipes disabled). It's hilarious.
What do you mean regarding the PS4's GPU?
Yeah I think free PS4 versions (ports) of games like that should be added to your PSN account if you already own them, for sure. Otherwise they're going to come under a lot of (very justified) criticism.
They are trying to sell us an old computer with more than 6 years. This is pathetic, the PCs will suffer the crappy console port illness again.
With all those specs, the new ps4 should cost around 250 euro.
HD7k series gpu, and rumors point to a pitcairn 7970M U.U
sounding quite agitated there man.
lazy PC ports are due to comparably small budgets for PC versions. e. g. you'd not be polishing your PC version anywhere close to the development effort you'd put into xbox and playstation or even adapting the designed-for-TV-interface and so on to PC specifics.
instead a small team would kick a quick and dirty port out the door because your publisher does not really care about PC. no way a faster console would magically change that for the better. on the contrary, if you'd end up using more complex/niche features on the consoles that require extra porting effort, you'd rather drop them right away for PC.
btw. not saying this is how it should be or that lazy ports do your brand any good at all.
Specs don't mean ****.
'The Last of Us' looks as good as Witcher 2 on PC does. Hell; Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, Halo 4, and many others, are all amazing looking titles.
Specs matter to the PC master-race because they love a good e-peen so they go out and buy 690's so they can post pics and brag to their fellow master-race friends. But really specs don't mean much, we still get amazing experiences on consoles. (I'm primarily a PC gamer myself).
Crappy ports also has nothing to do with console specs; think about it. Developers suddenly have 4X the GPU power, RAM, and they STILL mess it up? That's down to the developer, and not the fault of consoles.
I think video memory is one of the more important specs, high gpu's have 2 gigs, hope we get that much on consoles.
The memory is shared across the system. You won't get 2GB of video memory; both machines have a 32MB read buffer from system memory connected to one bridge.
I'd like to know where Blaizer buys his hardware, because six years ago I was still using a 512mb Geforce 6600 GT on a twin Pentium 4 rig with 1gb of memory (and it was more than adequate until the Geforce 8 series properly turned up at the end of the year).
It has the theoretical physical ability to use a full 18 compute units whereas Durango is capable of using 12 - this would give it a fair edge on Microsofts machine (133% moar power!). However realistically it can only properly support 14, meaning there's not that much different at all (116%).
I have a suspicion it's actually the same GPU and Sony are just reporting it as being more capable.
Yeah I wasn't referring the cluster**** SONY pulled last time with the locking off of the two blocks of VRAM, I was referring in relation to the whole, tired, PC vs Console debate.
Thanks for the clarification amber.
I used it a TON on PS2 to play PS1 games back in the day, and would already own a Vita if it let me play UMDs (via an accessory). Whether people use it or not, it helps convince them to 'upgrade' to the latest consoles instead of waiting for their game libraries to fill out more and prices to come down.
Doesnt PS4 have significantly faster RAM as well? Thats got to count for something right?
Microsoft's diagram shows how it works, and both have the same effective bandwidth (~170GB/s). Given the identical processor and likely motherboard, the reports given by VGLeaks would suggest it is pretty much the same memory setup (but in differing quantities).
Even if I'm making a wrong assumption and it is different, the effective bandwidth is still approximately the same, so it doesn't realistically count for much.
Lol, how can you feel i'm agitated just by some words?. I will never buy a console like these ones, because they are inferior to a PC in all the senses. I already own a 680 GTX OC, 16GB and a i72600k@4,5ghz. If i could play all my steam, uplay and origin games at 1080p with 120fps (3d), then... yes.
In a few months i will be buying a new monitor with a higher res than 1080p, and to play a game with a 30fps cap at 1080 and less graphical quality is a shit imho. I wonder if they new games for these new consoles will use 4096 textures instead of 512s. Just see the huge difference between Hitman absolution PC and the Xbox360 version. Or just compare Crysis 1 vs the shitty ported Crysis 2.
These new consoles are not next gen people, they will provide more of the same with ultra cheap components... it may be due to the global economic crisis. In fact, Japan will ship the ultra HD tvs in 2014, and panasonic already presented a 4k 20" tablet.
If i buy a Ultra HD TV 4k/8k, i should... at least, to be able to play at the native resolution instead of 720p with less than 30 fps (skyrim in ps3).
And with this i'm not debating anything related to PCvsConsoles, i'm just pointing the poor specs of the new xbox 720 and ps4, just that.
8gbs... are err, ~25 1600mhz cl9
7970m, = ~7850 (110): http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-7970M.72675.0.html
Uhm, that was your entire argument; a PC versus Console comparison.
If you want to back up your point, you're going to have to demonstrate why the new console hardware generation is not an improvement over the former rather than whinge and compare against the specifications of a PC that costs four times as much.
What do you want?
Let me ask you one thing... With which hardware do we make games for videoconsoles?. I'm sure you know the answer.
If the new consoles only can give us the perfomance of a 7850... too bad. they will be surely better than the actual consoles, but not as much as for the jump to the next next gen games. Do you understand that?. These new consoles are only a lite version of a pc gaming rig, and i'm sure they will cost a lot.
The specs are a shit imho.
Why dont they include a ssd of 256gb for example?, or a better cpu? or a better gpu instead of those poor and cheap gpus?
The new Ultra HD tvs will appear soon, and why the heck, these new consoles are not prepared for the new upcoming tech? there will be a ps5 in 2015?
i'd expect the next machines from MS and sony to imitate the wii (a rebadged overclocked gamecube-gen machine that didn't sell at a loss unlike it's competition) if they want console land to continue.
and your 4096 square textures would increase memory consumption and load times by orders of magnitude. after all it will presumably still be 1080p with a fallback to 720p because that's what you can reasonably expect your customers to have in their living rooms.
personally i'm fine with seeing graphics plateau for a while, we do have enough possibilities, i rather find the DCC tools lacking and workflows too timeconsuming and inflexible.
imo, we need to free more budget for the core game experience to improve the overall output, not the damn parallaxmapped sugarcoating.
Because it would be half the cost of the console?
Personally, the only games I play on my PC is League of Legends or Rollercoaster Tycoon. I'm not too fussed about squeezing a few extra frames per second for the overall cost that it entails. Plus most of the games I play are only available on consoles : ).
http://www.amazon.es/Crucial-CT128M4-Unidad-estado-s%C3%B3lido/dp/B004W2JKZI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359485063&sr=8-1
one ssd of 128gb is aroud 90, 256gb 170. Are you saying the new consoles will cost 340 euros?. With the launch of ps3, sony was losing too much money with the blu-ray, they could do the same with the ssds now
I do care a lot for perfomance, fps, and screen resolution. And i like to pay for something that will be useful for me. I don't care if it's expensive, more if i'm gonna use it for more than 5 years.
The ps3 was launched between 2006-2007, and the 60gb version was 599, insane. Now tell me if they will sell us the new console for less than 250 euro. I doubt it.
8gb ram = ~30 if 1600mhz, and less for 1333mhz
Radeon 7850 = ~110
cpu at 1600mhz, octacore or quadcore is less than 80
ssd 128gb = 95
put 100 more for the rest of the components and:
415 in total, and to round up the price, 450 and it's a lot.
A few weeks ago i demonstrate to Andreas how we could build a htpc with WIFI itx mobo (more expensive than ATX), ssd, 8gb ram, i5 ivy bridge, and 660 oc for less than 650 euro.
Blaizer. You can't compare a console architecture to a PC like that. First of all, what exactly would the SSD add to a console? They stream from the game media anyway, and it's all setup so that seek-times are minimized. Only sequential reads matter. A SSD is awesome on a PC, because of the ability to quickly access data that's spread out all over.
Also, you mention that 8 GB of RAM is cheap. Well, yes. But do you really think a PC can get 170 GB/s through its system memory? Nope. Nor can it get that through the PCI-E bus towards the graphics card (actually more like 1/10th of that). A high-end graphics card can have a huge internal memory bandwidth, but it's not really that useful for developers. And what do you think the 2 GB of memory on a high-end graphics card costs? 10? Nope.
That's one of the reasons you can do alot of cool stuff on consoles even if they, in theory, has obsolete hardware. The unified, fast memory. If the next-gen consoles has 8 GB of unified memory with as high bandwidth as 170 GB/s, that's very awesome.
Personally, the latest news of the new Xbox and Playstation are good news. The similarity between the consoles and the use of hardware derived from the PC platform means the end of crappy ports, and the start of an era of multithread optimization and new thinking. Plus, they should be cool, silent and cheap. Basically, we all win, regardless of the choice of gaming platform.
I paid 1600 for my high-end PC. It is large, heavy, watercooled and awesome, but I don't really need another one just to play Halo.
I'm so excited to see threads like
displacement map black line error
displacement map baking error
tessellation seams
tessellation inverted
tessellation tangent sync issue
instead of normal map
PC's are in no way 'ultra' cheap nowadays. And no, I don't need another shopping cart screengrab. Gaming PC's have always been and always will be more expensive than the consoles you can play the equivelant multi-plats on.
Consoles will disappear when games like Journey, Halo, Shadow of the Colossus, Gears of War, Heavy Rain, Gran Turismo, The Last of Us, Zelda, Mario, and Ni no Kuni are no longer wanted.
So, never.
You see, these console makers pay millions and millions to have excellent, exclusive titles on their hardware. :thumbup:
You live in a dream world. 100 euros for a case, PSU, mobo, HDD etc.?
But again, you're missing the point.
It is wholly irrelevant that these machines have specs of three (realistically) year old gaming PC's. Because we still get great games/experiences out of it.
So you can have your shitty ports lagging with 'console res' textures despite the 680 sitting in your case; you can have your petitions to bring console games to PC (Dark Souls); you can have your keyboard and mouse when people are using new and innovative input methods like the WiiU controller; you can wait 6 months for DLC because MS bought exclusivity rights. While you have all that most other gamers will be embracing both types of platform and will be much happier for it.
The master race boggle my mind. Frothing at the mouth over 60fps yet missing out on great games like the ones listed above? Why not do both for crying out loud? I don't understand.
If not, I guess a used PS3 on the cheap would be fine...but meh, I hate having a bunch of consoles to lug around.
I'd argue there is more unique experiences for the pc, and hardware innovation is not reliant on the platform. I'm sure the PC crowd is going to embrace the oculus rift just as much as the console crowd. There's just as many racing game wheels, and flight simulator controls. The only reason there isn't any major motion controllers for the pc is because no one wants them. There's probably 10 or less games that are console exclusives I really want to play (Skate, Journey, Zelda), but I save a lot of money by just getting steam sales.
There's not really any free to play options on consoles, PC Team Fortress 2, Dota2, LoL, Planetside 2, with more coming out every year. The pc is a much healthier enviroment for PC devs, the humble bundle is a perfect example. There's a lot of games that don't work on consoles, RTS like Civ V, or Starcraft 2. I just feel like I'd be missing out on more if I just had a console.
Andreas, it seems you are videoconsole fanboy, and you forget that ALL the games are builded with PCs.
Didn't you have a 3770k with a 680gtx in a itx case? or you were trolling me?
If you see the specs well, you'll see a pc with laptop components. And if ps3 costed 600 euro the first months, don't expect to pay less than 450 euro for that piece of obsolete garbage without games. In fact, you could build a AMD pc system with ssd for 450+ euro.
Later, it will happen like with the actual consoles, and we will see 120gb versions, 60gb, etc. "Oh damn, i will need to upgrade my xbox 360 with a better HD to store my games!", "oh no! i paid 100+ euros for these horrible time loads!?" (2,5" HDD 5400rpm). 1TB should be at least the minimum capacity if they don't use SSD. Otherwise, it will be a robbery for its price.
A SSD is 5 times faster than a HDD, and if they use shitty and cheap HDDs, the system will be lame. If you build a pc with a new i5/i7 and 8gb ram without a SSD... you will fall under the term of an idiot because that system is unbalanced. A raid 0 with 2 Samsungs 256gb 840 pro SSDs are for 400 euro
BTW, i play too many games with my wireless xbox 360 controller, in my TV, and with my PC, and you will see... we have the steam big picture now (it's fantastic!), but when they ship the steam box, all will change. All people will want only one device instead of a bunch of hot bricks (err consoles... my brick htpc is silent and very cool).
And Andreas, I usually don't buy crap ports like Dark Souls: Prepare to don't use your PC edition". I only buy games with their PC versions like Hitman Absolution or Skyrim.
Crysis 1 shipped in 2007, and i only hope to see a crysis 3 with the same level of quality or much better as crytek promised recently. Fuck, i also want to see what the luminous engine do! but with ultra settings at 30"
Yet. I'll eat my left shoe if none of the first titles we see on new consoles are not free to play or otherwise very similarly modeled.
Actually I'm primarily a PC gamer. I have a PS3 but rarely use it, these days.
I have a 3770 and a 660ti; in a Prodigy Bitfenix itx, yes.
Blaizer, this is the second nex-gen console thread you have spoiled with the same argument. This thread is about the PS4 and that alone (not PC vs Consoles). The PS4's specs are actually pretty impressive; I compare them to how impressive the specs for the 360 where when that first came out. The PS4 features components you would build with today, like a decent amount of RAM and an 8 core processor. Developers will make great games with these resources, and yes, most games will be at 1080p/ 60fps. Please stop thread spoiling.
Yeah I'm right there with you.
Regarding F2P, I would certainly like to see that, but I don't know if that will happen; or, if it will be done well.
I certainly expect Planetside to be one of PS4's first F2P. Maybe with cross-platform? That would be great.
I'm actually more interested in the ways the plan on improving the interfaces and the social aspect. I kinda wish consoles would have apps for the computer kinda like steam so you could do everything you could on the console in terms of view market place, picking out demos to download, buying games, messaging friends, etc.
I'm pretty sure it will happen, but am less sure it can be done well.
Cross-platform just won't work - and it's not for technical reasons. Early cross-platform shooters on the 360 demonstrated that PC gamers had such a colossal advantage in the mouse and keyboard that console players simply quit permanently. Games like Unreal Tournament 3 ran at 75% the gameplay speed, not for performance reasons, but to render the game playable for the average user.
If you want to test this theory, I suspect Shadowrun may be the only remaining cross platform that still works.
You a pcgamer? i don't think so.
I only replied on this one man, orbis, and my whole point is:
The PS4's specs are actually NOT impressive for me. The opposite to some of you. Ps3 is also multicore, and the new specs are not as great as you may think. There's too much hype around these new consoles for this time of crisis. This ps4 DOES NOT suppose a change of generation.
I argumented it with prices, but you seem to be blind. Another thing will be the DRM/security for this ps4.
These consoles are just delaying the technology...
Time to time, and let's see if the final price is 450 dollars.
Never thought of that.
Cross-platform may work for controller only games but yeah there would be too much of a disadvantage with an FPS. Unless they finally let us use kb/m with consoles. Had to buy a very expensive peripheral to use them on my PS3.
New shaders and lighting are what this generation are going to be about, not extra geo detail. Lighting and material definition are what make or break things.
Look at 1313 demo, no tessellation, just great lighting and shader work.
People said the same about normal mapping (the argument being that diffuse, normal and specular means you're using three times as many textures compared to when you bake it into the one texture).
The argument didn't last.
Tesselation won't be used on everything and people will optimise it. Normal mapping isn't just one technique either, it's a whole range of techniques stemming from one theory. Tesselation and dynamic displacement is the same, as people on these forums are already demonstrating.
FYI, tesselation based techniques are already in use in some console games.
They wernt wrong though, it was just people ditched specular maps more so than normal maps. Everything will have a Diffuse and Normal, but a lot of things can get away with a generic tiling specular map shared by multiple shaders, or no specular map at all and just use some shader tricks.
For terrain and extremely organic forms like rocks, yes I totally agree adaptive tessellation will be huge. But in that rope example, for the thousands of tris to make it look that dense, you could go into the model its self and add maybe another 300/400 tris and get the same effect. (I am only referring to geometry displacement tessellation)
Again, not saying it wont be used or isnt important. I am just saying its extremely wasteful as it stands now and wont be what really makes next gen. Lighting and physical based shaders will.