I don't think your bakes are coming through well enough to do your excellent high poly models justice. I would spend some more time perfecting your low poly models and their uv layouts until you get some clean bakes that do them justice. Both the juke box and the bumper car deserve much better. Your lowpoly polygon distribution seems a bit too influenced by the original high poly edge loops, resulting in quite a few vertices that serve no immediate purpose in the lowpoly. Additionally these are fairly unique objects which there would rarely be too many of onscreen at the same time so surely you could spend a few more polygons on some of the details where you are seeing projection errors.
I do not know modo that well but if it is limiting your bakes i would consider moving to xnormal and getting familiar with cage projection.
Thank you! I've been using Maya to model and Modo to bake and render. The more I use Maya though the more jealous I am of Modo, since it has so many cool tools that Maya doesn't. Right now I'm slowly trying to work my way into just using Modo. I've seen people use edge weighting in Modo and it does seem sooo much simpler then the way I'm building stuff in Maya at the moment.
@Kon Artist - Thanks! I'll keep those things in mind as I continue building stuff.
Edge weight modeling in Modo is fantasticly fun and productive but be aware that it doesn't translate to any other modeling package. You can't give any sort of file to a Max user and have them load your asset, for example.
The only way is to freeze the geometry (which locks in the sub-div as real geo) which renders the mesh impossible to work with ...
But if you're using a Modo only pipeline, yes, I would HIGHLY recommend using edge weights. So nice...
Your high poly models are definitely nice, but your low poly stuff still needs some work. For the upcomming next-gen stuff, don't worry about cutting too many corners to make a prop be under 2k.
Your bumper car, for example, could use a lot more polies around the base. You're getting a lot of artifacting in your normal bakes. The jukebox has the same problems.
Could you put up your UVs? How are you using soft / hard edges when baking?
I love the high poly work (great to see someone else using Sub-d in Maya!) however I agree that your bakes and low poly models are not doing them justice.
Also I noticed that you model the holes/bolt details into your mesh. I think it may be best to do these as floaters, that way when you optimize the high into the low poly it will be easier. If you are unsure what floaters are please check out this tutorial by Arenovalis - (he creates them at 0.17). He also bakes his high to low and optimizes in later tutorials.
@meathead: Thanks it'd be cool to see your stuff once you get it up!
@uncle: Thanks I'm working on improving my baking and texturing
@imperator_dk: Thanks for the feedback, I'll keep that in mind as I keep building things. I think it's more my lack of experience then Modo limiting the quality of my bakes, hah but I'll work on improving that.
@WarrenM: Heh yeah thanks. I'm hoping to get into a Modo only pipeline, trying to get faster and more productive and Modo's tools definitely seem to make that possible.
@Haiasi: Thanks for the feedback! Well I posted these some posts back but here's how the bake, low poly and uv's ended up:
I'm aware there are some errors in my bakes and I'm working on improving my low poly skills as I continue building things.
@ToffeApple: Thanks for the links! Yup I'm aware of what floaters are, I just chose to build those parts aruond the bottom as a continuous mesh. I'll keep these things in mind, Thank you.
Thanks everyone for all the feedback this is probably the longest reply post I've written, phew ... heh
Well you can google backing normal maps in modo and find a lot of stuff, but here's this video that should give u the basic idea.
I've done it before, it's just that not being able to use a cage is a pretty significant drawback. Have you considered using xnormal for your bakes? This will give you serveral advantages over modo, most importantly being able to use cages, but also little things like being able to use other normal maths so if you have a target engine in mind you can get synced normals. You could always use handplane too.
I don't see anything wrong with the final render... but I have gripes with having such saturation in the spec. But the final result doesn't seem to mind.
Looks really great! Can't wait to see more!
Ive been asnwering a lot of stephanies questions over the months. I think she has great progress going from 0 knowledge on game art creation to have 2 full blown out props in udk. Showcased very proffesionally as well. I also agree that at times her uvs are not fully optimized but thats fine. Given that these are her first props and they look great just means that over time she will start catching up on those little things and improve.
Just wanted to post a WIP of my train environment, all the plants are stand in at the moment I still have to replace them with my own and there's a handful of missing textures but here's how it's coming together.
@zymn: Thank you!:] I try to find interesting models with different types of damage and detail on them, it helps me work on learning how to create different kinds of textures.
Here's some progress on my scene I'll finalize it soon and post a break down of my work.
Hi.This is so good, i like it! I just have a few remarks. The trains front side is a little too dark except the separated piece on it. That looks strange to me. Its some kind of lighting problem right? And the bottom sides of the wagons tops (and maybe the wagons interiors?) is also too dark to me. And the puddles are not enough visible compared to the reference, I would like to see it more.
@Obscura: Thank you!:) Yeah I noticed the weird shadow at the front of the train, sometimes when I build it's not there. I think I'm having some weird issues building the lights because of hardware constrictions. It takes so long and I'm not even building production lighting yet
(edit: you know what I bet that weird lighting on the front peice is being caused by the way I set up the specular power on that material :0)
I think the Alpha on the roof of the back train wagons might have been wrong when this built. Or maybe I need to fix the lighting so it's not so dark but it's just odd how the yellow metal pieces show up but not the plastic tent part so it makes me think it might be a problem with the alpha >_>.
Yup I still have to fix up the ground to match the reference a bit more. I have a few ideas but I'm so glad the stuff I made actually reads like a puddle, hah.
Thanks for your comments, it's always nice getting other peoples perspective on stuff cause I spend so much time looking at this by myself.
@Cheathem: Hah yeah, just gotta mess with them some more until they look right I guess
@Myrkur: I do, I don't have it updated at the moment though. I'll post a link on here when I get it all set up.
@Faltzer: Thanks! Haha I've actually transitioned over into Modo now. I'm loving Modo, all the tool customization and flexibility really won me over. I can't see Maya 2014 making me go back to Maya unless it includes all the tool costumization and awesome rendering ability Modo has, but I guess I'll have to check it out.
Alright so here's how everything is looking and the textures I've used. These are not final. It could still use some love and work but I'm going to leave it alone for a bit and come back to it later.
I'll be working on some new stuff for the Escape challenge with Raul for the next 2 weeks or so, so keep an eye out for some (hopefully) cool updates at this other thread. http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118469
The references I used while working on this scene.
Cool! But I'm a little disappointed about some of the material solutions especially on the puddles and on the plastic roof. Why don't you tried out reflections on the puddles?they could be the same mesh as the ground btw, if you would use vertex blending and parallax.And about the plastic roof, is it using transparency? Looks like just holes to me. Nothing offensive or anything, your scene looks good, just your materials could use a lot more improvement. Oh and the bricks needs normalmap
- And one of the tree's branches is going through the fence.
Cool! But I'm a little disappointed about some of the material solutions especially on the puddles and on the plastic roof. Why don't you tried out reflections on the puddles?they could be the same mesh as the ground btw, if you would use vertex blending and parallax.And about the plastic roof, is it using transparency? Looks like just holes to me. Nothing offensive or anything, your scene looks good, just your materials could use a lot more improvement. Oh and the bricks needs normalmap
- And one of the tree's branches is going through the fence.
Heh thanks yeah well these aren't the actual resolutions of my textures, I guess i should have stated that. The Fence material has a transparency and an emissive that's just the diffuse there. I'm missing some normals on my plants but not on the bricks, hah... I expected some one to comment on the bricks. Well this place is a childrens amusement park and for some reason they chose to draw out bricks on their walls, It's not actually bricks but outlines drawn in. I suppouse I should find a way to make that more apperant.
The tree branch going through the fence was on purpose, hah. That's how my reference is, but I should move things around so it looks natural and not like a mistake.
I've been vertex blending the mudd in, vertex blending the puddles too seemed like too much but perhaps it would make it look more natural.
Thanks for all the feed back, this is my first scene. I've been learning new things every step of the way and having to figure out new tricks to do things. I know it needs more work, I'll be sure to fix things up before I call it finished.
@minorthreat: Hah thanks, ummm.. by persitently working on stuff and living the life of a pennyless artist.. hah.
@ErichWK: Hah yeah that's actually tiling, I was messing with it trying to get a specific look and I didn't realize I posted it up like this. I'll post the final materials when I finish.
Well, you are right about the bricks I mean its really noticeable that the branch is going through the fence, not between 2 slats. Very nice for first scene btw, keep it up!
Firstly this a great job you've done. I love the overall look of the scene and I particularly like the vegetation.
However I feel like you need to step up your texturing a bit. The textures feel a bit over Photoshopped (if that can be an adjective) and unnatural to me.
I would recommend Racer445's tutorial on texturing. Do take a look if you havn't already because he really goes through it in great detail - http://www.oesterkilde.dk/racer445.php
I've been working on a new prop this week. This is based on a wood carving by Tim Racer.
Thank you ToffeeApple and Obscura for your feedback on my last post, sorry I went a while without checking this but I'll be sure to check out those tutorials.
@Iciban: I moved to only using Modo after I finished my jukebox. I went back and re-rendered my bumper car after that as well. Everything in my portfolio is rendered in Modo.
I modeled the couch using only Maya. The details in the back cushion are all one piece, but it is separate from the details on the arms. I initially modeled them together but as they became more dense I separated them.
it's rare to see youngsters model that much these days, i approve! however i have a tiny complaint
why is your image so huge? 4k res wow, it will take a while until that is standard, don't get me wrong i like big images, i have 27" screen with 2560x1440 res, but yours is just way too huge
@Iciban: Sorry it's a been a while, but no not really Modo has some really amazing render tools that are very easy to set up. However I did get some help when I was setting up my first renders. I think I rendered that couch in Maya though
Started working on this a while back but I thought I'd try lighting and rendering it in Unreal 4. I'm really impressed by the lighting. I'll take better finished renders later.
@Nerf Bat Ninja : Thank you so much ! I try to find interesting props that give me chance to try new things. The couch, bumper cart, and jukebox I found looking through eBay and the other things I found googleing abandoned theme parks and carousel rides. I try to take my time finding something I can really get invested in.
@Cougar Jo: Thank you! I started a fulltime job last fall and haven't been as active on here since then. But I'm going to make more things to post on here soon
Hey I haven't posted in here in a while, didn't have a lot of free time for a while. But recently I've been busy working on some personal things and updating my old props. I incorporated a lot o feedback I got on here so I just wanted to share some of what I've been doing. Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback before, really appreciate it!
Replies
I do not know modo that well but if it is limiting your bakes i would consider moving to xnormal and getting familiar with cage projection.
The only way is to freeze the geometry (which locks in the sub-div as real geo) which renders the mesh impossible to work with ...
But if you're using a Modo only pipeline, yes, I would HIGHLY recommend using edge weights. So nice...
Your bumper car, for example, could use a lot more polies around the base. You're getting a lot of artifacting in your normal bakes. The jukebox has the same problems.
Could you put up your UVs? How are you using soft / hard edges when baking?
Keep it up
I love the high poly work (great to see someone else using Sub-d in Maya!) however I agree that your bakes and low poly models are not doing them justice.
What I have found useful here on polycount is Earthquake's normal map thread. This really helped me to understand the process -
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81154
Also I noticed that you model the holes/bolt details into your mesh. I think it may be best to do these as floaters, that way when you optimize the high into the low poly it will be easier. If you are unsure what floaters are please check out this tutorial by Arenovalis - (he creates them at 0.17). He also bakes his high to low and optimizes in later tutorials.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tgy0lBdJK0&list=PL925958D31D8D30C7&index=1
Keep up the good work!
Well you can google backing normal maps in modo and find a lot of stuff, but here's this video that should give u the basic idea.
@Goten-trunk: Thank you
@meathead: Thanks it'd be cool to see your stuff once you get it up!
@uncle: Thanks I'm working on improving my baking and texturing
@imperator_dk: Thanks for the feedback, I'll keep that in mind as I keep building things. I think it's more my lack of experience then Modo limiting the quality of my bakes, hah but I'll work on improving that.
@demilich: Thanks Alan!
@WarrenM: Heh yeah thanks. I'm hoping to get into a Modo only pipeline, trying to get faster and more productive and Modo's tools definitely seem to make that possible.
@Haiasi: Thanks for the feedback! Well I posted these some posts back but here's how the bake, low poly and uv's ended up:
I'm aware there are some errors in my bakes and I'm working on improving my low poly skills as I continue building things.
@ToffeApple: Thanks for the links! Yup I'm aware of what floaters are, I just chose to build those parts aruond the bottom as a continuous mesh. I'll keep these things in mind, Thank you.
Thanks everyone for all the feedback this is probably the longest reply post I've written, phew ... heh
I've done it before, it's just that not being able to use a cage is a pretty significant drawback. Have you considered using xnormal for your bakes? This will give you serveral advantages over modo, most importantly being able to use cages, but also little things like being able to use other normal maths so if you have a target engine in mind you can get synced normals. You could always use handplane too.
I particularly like the bump car! Prypiat style
Yup that guys pretty awesome! :]
@Bek: I know several people that bake without cages and have some awesome models.
These guys use modo:
Snefer-
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107672&page=6
http://www.torfrick.com/
raul-
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70309&highlight=raul&page=14
@Cougar Jo: Thanks! I was looking at Prypiat stuff when I decided to do an abandoned theme park scene. Prypiat stuff is so neat looking :]
Looks really great! Can't wait to see more!
Great job steph!! Keep it up!
raul: Thanks for all your help and support!
Here's some progress on my scene I'll finalize it soon and post a break down of my work.
I really love the vintage stuff, it always has interesting shapes.
Here's an update of my 15millionth attempt to get this finished
Great work, keep it up!
(edit: you know what I bet that weird lighting on the front peice is being caused by the way I set up the specular power on that material :0)
I think the Alpha on the roof of the back train wagons might have been wrong when this built. Or maybe I need to fix the lighting so it's not so dark but it's just odd how the yellow metal pieces show up but not the plastic tent part so it makes me think it might be a problem with the alpha >_>.
Yup I still have to fix up the ground to match the reference a bit more. I have a few ideas but I'm so glad the stuff I made actually reads like a puddle, hah.
Thanks for your comments, it's always nice getting other peoples perspective on stuff cause I spend so much time looking at this by myself.
@Cheathem: Hah yeah, just gotta mess with them some more until they look right I guess
I think you are going to love maya 2014 because of the new modeling tools
Maya all the way!!
@Faltzer: Thanks! Haha I've actually transitioned over into Modo now. I'm loving Modo, all the tool customization and flexibility really won me over. I can't see Maya 2014 making me go back to Maya unless it includes all the tool costumization and awesome rendering ability Modo has, but I guess I'll have to check it out.
Alright so here's how everything is looking and the textures I've used. These are not final. It could still use some love and work but I'm going to leave it alone for a bit and come back to it later.
I'll be working on some new stuff for the Escape challenge with Raul for the next 2 weeks or so, so keep an eye out for some (hopefully) cool updates at this other thread.
The references I used while working on this scene.
- And one of the tree's branches is going through the fence.
Heh thanks yeah well these aren't the actual resolutions of my textures, I guess i should have stated that. The Fence material has a transparency and an emissive that's just the diffuse there. I'm missing some normals on my plants but not on the bricks, hah... I expected some one to comment on the bricks. Well this place is a childrens amusement park and for some reason they chose to draw out bricks on their walls, It's not actually bricks but outlines drawn in. I suppouse I should find a way to make that more apperant.
The tree branch going through the fence was on purpose, hah. That's how my reference is, but I should move things around so it looks natural and not like a mistake.
I've been vertex blending the mudd in, vertex blending the puddles too seemed like too much but perhaps it would make it look more natural.
Thanks for all the feed back, this is my first scene. I've been learning new things every step of the way and having to figure out new tricks to do things. I know it needs more work, I'll be sure to fix things up before I call it finished.
@ErichWK: Hah yeah that's actually tiling, I was messing with it trying to get a specific look and I didn't realize I posted it up like this. I'll post the final materials when I finish.
Firstly this a great job you've done. I love the overall look of the scene and I particularly like the vegetation.
However I feel like you need to step up your texturing a bit. The textures feel a bit over Photoshopped (if that can be an adjective) and unnatural to me.
I would recommend Racer445's tutorial on texturing. Do take a look if you havn't already because he really goes through it in great detail -
http://www.oesterkilde.dk/racer445.php
Thank you ToffeeApple and Obscura for your feedback on my last post, sorry I went a while without checking this but I'll be sure to check out those tutorials.
Quick question. For that coach you did. For that leather detail, all they all seperate pieces or are they all one mesh
I modeled the couch using only Maya. The details in the back cushion are all one piece, but it is separate from the details on the arms. I initially modeled them together but as they became more dense I separated them.
@AbKI: Thank you very much :]
why is your image so huge? 4k res wow, it will take a while until that is standard, don't get me wrong i like big images, i have 27" screen with 2560x1440 res, but yours is just way too huge
@homrighausen3d: Thank you
Modo has some really good renders. Hard to setup?
Based on a wood carving by Tim Racer
http://www.timracer.com/html/carvings/sally_01/sally_01.html
Looks nice to me!
@Cougar Jo: Thank you! I started a fulltime job last fall and haven't been as active on here since then. But I'm going to make more things to post on here soon
@AbKI : Thank you!
You can view the marmoset viewer here https://www.artstation.com/embed/806229
and follow me in ArtStation at https://www.artstation.com/artist/stephanie