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How Not to Be Professional

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  • ES_139
    of course no one is professional in every aspect of life, people are professional with things that relate to their profession.

    Thats basically the definition of acting professional isnt it??

    this was to do with his profession, hence people are expecting oniram to act professionally.
    im confusing myself now. For the record i think oniram is def in the right even if he/she went about it in a slightly unprofessional way!
  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 7
    Didn't Oniram specifically say that this email (which he has posted) was AFTER he declined, and Jim kept asking him why he declined and kept on asking and poking him in less then understanding attitude?

    I would have flown off the handle personally speaking. If I tell person I'm not interested in something, over email ontop of that, and they ask me 'why' with a hinted attitude of "strange, one minute you wanted to work for us, now you don't. Mind telling me why Mr.?" as if to hint that I'm harboring a secret agenda of stealing their game ideas.
  • Death-a-Matron
  • xvampire
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    xvampire polycounter lvl 14
    10.000 hours?


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17zNW-wz35E"]Re: OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Remix) - YouTube[/ame] its amazing!


    me and my friend almost fallen into these kind of thing when we graduated from school. i was desperate naive student back then ...
  • MadnessImport
    Full Copyright mode engaged
  • EarthQuake
    jimyakes.jpg

    I wanna see this guy fight the unlimited detail guy. I would pay to see that.
  • Oniram
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    Oniram polycounter lvl 15
    Ace-Angel wrote: »
    Didn't Oniram specifically say that this email (which he has posted) was AFTER he declined, and Jim kept asking him why he declined and kept on asking and poking him in less then understanding attitude?

    yes. its interesting how a lot of people have been overlooking that.
  • GarageBay9
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    GarageBay9 polycounter lvl 13
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    I wanna see this guy fight the unlimited detail guy. I would pay to see that.

    Between that pic and "Merkin germs ada da Snerk Terks", my wife came in to find out if I was okay, I was laughing so hard. :poly142:
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    Oniram, I must say you're really kind to be writing very long answers to that kind of guys. I dealt with them a lot in the past coming from that sphere that used to be modding and now calls itself indies, and I am less patient than I was.

    I already hapenned to reply to those guys with a single 'No' mail after knowing who I was dealing with.
  • Ghostscape
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    Ghostscape polycounter lvl 13
    RexM wrote: »
    I DON'T KNOW WHAT SLANDER IS AND REALLY OUGHT TO STOP TALKING ABOUT IT. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT FREE SPEECH MEANS IN THE US, I WOULD BE THE WORST LAWYER, BLAH BLAH BLAH

    What Oniram did was not slander. You are correct when you said facts are not slander. Saying John Doe is a kid toucher or exposed himself to an old folks home when he did not, however, is slander, is legally enforceable, and is not unconstitutional.

    You have the right to say whatever you want under free speech. You do not have the right to willfully lie to damage someone else. Slander and Libel laws (technically, this posting would be libel if fallacious, not slander, so obviously the asshole Oniram was dealing with doesn't know shit about slander, either) put the burden of proof of damage on the accuser, not the defendant, but if the damages are provable then the laws are enforceable.

    If, for example, you lie about John Doe touching boys, and his wife divorces him, citing his reputation as a pedophile, and his job fires him because he is a pedophile, and he is not a pedophile and you lied, you are not protected by free speech.

    Additionally, there are precedents and laws against threatening individuals or for intentionally causing a causing a clear and present danger.

    Free speech is right like the ability to swing your arms around wildly is a right. It stops when it is meant to injure someone else in a tangible way.

    That's really fucking tangential, but I don't think there is anything else to say about this thread until Snaketakers posts more work.

    Also I'm curious as to whether Epic is going to deny them a license for UDK now, since Snaketouchers is obviously misrepresenting the relationship, unless Epic has some sort of black ops shovelware wing where they meet in secret with developers like Snackcakes to systematically abuse the naive for minimal cashflow.
  • Ganemi
    Oniram wrote: »
    yes. its interesting how a lot of people have been overlooking that.

    On top of how he was going to "warn his associates" about you.

    Don't think you had much of a choice.
  • Weirdboy
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    Weirdboy polycounter lvl 5
    How credible/serious is this guy's link with Epic anyway?
  • DrunkShaman
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    DrunkShaman polycounter lvl 12
    PhattyEwok wrote: »
    SnakeTakes @ CityTV's Break Fast Television - YouTube

    This game looks awesome!

    It's taking gaming back to what counts



    What does this mean *shrug*

    "It's taking gaming back to what counts" means "I dont no what fuck I just said BFT bro, all I heard was (IM GANNA BE FILTHY RICH BY RAPING KNOWN TITLED GAMES OFF LIKE CRYSIS.)" Now that I've seen this video, you are lucky that you are not a part of it. And also, I forgot to state before that people with the very least IQ, comparing to chimps have a very short temper if they dont see things going their way.

    It also looks like he has never played any FPS games other than a very screwed up version of counter strike. o.O

    Wow, seriously this guy doesnt have any links none what so ever.

    EDIT: I wonder if his lawyer(s) are fatter than him...

    EDIT 2: I also forgot to state that if I spend 10k hours+ I would definitely make my own game engine, make my own game, sell it and will be working on my second game. One character takes me from a day to a week and if possible break between what I am doing, It would take a month max. There are people who would take serious time in detailing their character which take them week to a month at the max.

    This guy is full of shit.
  • crazyfool
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    crazyfool polycounter lvl 8
    Ace-Angel wrote: »
    Didn't Oniram specifically say that this email (which he has posted) was AFTER he declined, and Jim kept asking him why he declined and kept on asking and poking him in less then understanding attitude?.

    I think in this situation it's fine as the guy is obviously full of himself and part of the modding scene and not an established developer (aswell as being a complete moron), but people should take away from this thread that in a professional scenario this is not how you speak to clients. Irrespective of the harassment I feel Oniram could have displayed a bit more self control in his initial response and dealt with him in a much more respectable and professional manner.
  • jmt
    Here's the action figure vs the 3d model of the Anaheim demon thing.
    anaheim.jpg

    My response can be summed up with these two comic frames.
    woahzl.jpg
  • Ganemi
    crazyfool wrote: »
    Irrespective of the harassment I feel Oniram could have displayed a bit more self control in his initial response and dealt with him in a much more respectable and professional manner.


    dozenth

    (^^ actually a word apparently)
  • Steve Schulze
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    Steve Schulze polycounter lvl 15
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    I wanna see this guy fight the unlimited detail guy. I would pay to see that.
    To be honest, I'm not entirely ready to write Bruce Dell off as a snake oil salesman as Markus Persson put it, if only because Australia could really use something that'll offer a boost to our industry. Never the less...
    shyster.jpg
    You know, because I needed another excuse to procrastinate.
  • dfacto
    If I was Crytek I'd sue you guys for slander. Comparing that blob to the nanosuit is just plain wrong. :/
  • basmith
    Wow. It's a good thing you got out of that situation before it was too late. He really seems to be the habitually disingenuous sort, a poser (poseur?) so forcefully posing he might sprain something.
  • Frump
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    Frump polycounter lvl 12
    Jim Yake wrote:
    nor know anything about games in general

    I am going to have to use this quote some time. "It's clear to me that you don't know what you're talking about, nor know anything about games in general."

    It's hilarious that he was on that Edmonton morning show but unfortunate that the producers were so oblivious as to give him publicity.

    I was inspired by this thread to check up on a guy who dropped out on me during a freelance gig a few years ago. Turns out he just dropped off the map and his business didn't go anywhere. Hopefully the same happens to this guy before he can exploit more people.
  • Snacuum
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    Snacuum polycounter lvl 9
    Reminds me of something that happened to me here in Melbourne, I was contacted by a guy who sounded a lot like this asking me to show him my folio.

    I told him my folio was old and that anything new I had done was on (local gamedev site) and that I was actually pretty bad.

    So he responds to me just like this Snakecake's guy. *shrug*

    Checked out his website, was just a background with a blurb saying how awesome some 'next-gen' game he was making was.

    Told my housemate, she said, "Yeah I worked with that guy once. You seriously dodged a bullet. He's got a pretty bad reputation as an asshole and likely wont't get hired anywhere in Australia now."
  • kitetsu
    Snacuum wrote: »
    Reminds me of something that happened to me here in Melbourne, I was contacted by a guy who sounded a lot like this asking me to show him my folio.

    I told him my folio was old and that anything new I had done was on (local gamedev site) and that I was actually pretty bad.

    So he responds to me just like this Snakecake's guy. *shrug*

    Checked out his website, was just a background with a blurb saying how awesome some 'next-gen' game he was making was.

    Told my housemate, she said, "Yeah I worked with that guy once. You seriously dodged a bullet. He's got a pretty bad reputation as an asshole and likely wont't get hired anywhere in Australia now."

    There's people like that in OUR town? My god. As if Brendan McNamara wasn't bad enough.
  • Steve Schulze
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    Steve Schulze polycounter lvl 15
    Mmm. I know of the guy you're talking about. I'd call him out, but I don't remember his name or that of his company, which isn't particularly useful. I applied at his studio myself when he first opened it up and he said that he wasn't interested in anyone who had any experience. Very dubious.
  • Aigik
    I'm going to try to change the tone here and say that the character model looks decent considering it's made by a freshly graduated college kid with no industry experience.
  • HitmonInfinity
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    HitmonInfinity polycounter lvl 11
    Aigik wrote: »
    I'm going to try to change the tone here and say that the character model looks decent considering it's made by a freshly graduated college kid with no industry experience.

    The character artists I graduated with had demo reels 100x better than that... even the worst ones couldn't produce work as bad as that character.
  • Oniram
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    Oniram polycounter lvl 15
    The character artists I graduated with had demo reels 100x better than that... even the worst ones couldn't produce work as bad as that character.

    same here..


    the fact that the student is a recent grad has nothing to do with the quality of their work.. some recent grads have kick-ass work..
  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 18
    Which is also besides the point.

    That guy should not be working for free for someone who is just there to take advantage of him, he should be enrolling into polycount university and not waste his time with that anti-dev.
  • Aigik
    eld wrote: »
    Which is also besides the point.

    That guy should not be working for free for someone who is just there to take advantage of him, he should be enrolling into polycount university and not waste his time with that anti-dev.

    Absolutely agreed.
  • Snacuum
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    Snacuum polycounter lvl 9
    Jackablade wrote: »
    Mmm. I know of the guy you're talking about. I'd call him out, but I don't remember his name or that of his company, which isn't particularly useful. I applied at his studio myself when he first opened it up and he said that he wasn't interested in anyone who had any experience. Very dubious.

    Here's the fantastic website from the guys studio. This was like a year ago.

    http://www.figureheadstudios.com.au/
  • DerDude
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    DerDude polycounter lvl 10
    I never had an email-response so disrespectful oO
  • r_fletch_r
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    r_fletch_r polycounter lvl 9
    Snacuum wrote: »
    Here's the fantastic website from the guys studio. This was like a year ago.

    http://www.figureheadstudios.com.au/

    :) i like the way they're recruiting an entire company on their jobs page.
  • Lamont
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    Lamont polycounter lvl 14
    Oh man. My sides.. they hurt. Read every post here.
  • Kot_Leopold
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    Kot_Leopold polycounter lvl 10
    Wow, this guy is such an assface. It's a shame people like him get away with this.
  • Lamont
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    Lamont polycounter lvl 14
    It's a shame people like him get away with this.
    It's a shame someone gave him money when there are people around the country who would actually put it to good use.
  • chrisradsby
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    chrisradsby polycounter lvl 11
    Wow, I don't know what to say...honestly. You guys already said everything that came to my mind. I don't know whether to laugh my ass off or feel pissed off.
  • TheHell
    I'm surprised and happy at the same time
    I'm self learner and I only spent like 150 hours learning modeling and zbrush
    AND OMG if they call that professional then I'm Elite artist then.

    gotta go to Canada and get job there .
  • r_fletch_r
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    r_fletch_r polycounter lvl 9
    Lamont wrote: »
    It's a shame someone gave him money when there are people around the country who would actually put it to good use.

    Its way too common, a previous boss of mine used to do this shit, we got funding from a major backer and the first thing he did was buy himself a very expensive car and start living it up.. fast forward 8 months and he cant pay people for their work.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 13
    Oh man, I saw these guys crop up in a couple of places recently, but didn't dare believe there might actually be some people working on an actual project behind it.

    I mean take a look at the media the guy was advertising it with:
    EOTB_MarketingPosterX_5.jpgEOTB_MarketingPosterX_4.jpg

    Nvidia and 360 logos etc?

    Source:
    http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/840305-PROJECT-End-of-the-Beginning...-WIP?highlight=snaketakes
  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    11.11.11? that's when carneval season begins in Germany... I have to say the pictures make me laugh
  • TheHell
    r_fletch_r wrote: »
    Its way too common, a previous boss of mine used to do this shit, we got funding from a major backer and the first thing he did was buy himself a very expensive car and start living it up.. fast forward 8 months and he cant pay people for their work.
    Sorry for the silly question but isn't the boss supposed to send a budget report ??
    I thought that standard in any company or I'm just mixing things up .
  • ES_139
    so who is publishing it?
    someone must be if its going to be available on 360 and playstation?
  • ambershee
  • Alemja
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    Alemja quad damage
    Rocking those layer styles hard man! I especially love it when you can't read the text.
  • Ben Apuna
    I hadn't thought of not wanting to deal with a publisher based on who their clients were until now.

    Not that there aren't other reasons as well...
  • retleks
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    retleks polycounter lvl 11
    Pretty sure you can't just slap those logos around willy nilly. First off... it's the Epic games logo, which suggests that EG is working with them in some way, which I'm sure is not the case. They could put a UDK or Unreal Tech logo there I guess. For the rest of the logos, you have to be certified I'm pretty sure. Something tells me they are not.
  • Boyso
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    Boyso polycounter lvl 7
    I have to say, some serious work went into that QR code.
  • Shanthosa
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    Shanthosa polycounter lvl 11
    Ridiculous. That is clearly not a motel.
  • Isaiah Sherman
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    Isaiah Sherman polycounter lvl 14
    On the day the last great war ended... the final great war shall begin...



    Sign me up!
  • DrunkShaman
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    DrunkShaman polycounter lvl 12
    Soo much "...END..." O.O
  • r_fletch_r
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    r_fletch_r polycounter lvl 9
    TheHell wrote: »
    Sorry for the silly question but isn't the boss supposed to send a budget report ??
    I thought that standard in any company or I'm just mixing things up .

    thats sounds like something a competent person would do.
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