Wow, I'm part of Oniram's team and I definitely didn't contact this guy. Don't know what exactly he intends to sue for.
Great Language for a CEO and creator of an IP.
Btw just for some refrence, this is the guy that Oniram had to deal with.
Really dig that kickin UI :P
I am part of this team and I did NOT contact him either. In fact I am sure only Oniram was the only one that had his contact info. For him to make this claim and personal attack against him is so unprofessional I am glad we declined. It just shows he is incompetent, a liar, and unable to take a rejection.
Fecking hell, that IS the Nanosuit from Crysis. It looks like they took the model and did a quick ZBrush sculpt on it. The silhouette topology looks exactly the same, modding FTW.
Also, am I the only one who finds the 11.11.11 date obnoxious on their behalf? Putting out a game which is sub-par in demo state on 11.11.11, to have an excuse if it doesn't do well by saying "Oh Skyrim is came out, so we couldn't grab attention" seems really cheap.
Either way, you guys are awesome, don't let some first year CEO who cannot take rejection tell you other wise.
Fecking hell, that IS the Nanosuit from Crysis. It looks like they took the model and did a quick ZBrush sculpt on it. The silhouette topology looks exactly the same, modding FTW.
If that's the case, maybe somebody should drop a quick dime to Crytek and let them deal with Mr. James Yake, plagiarist extraordinaire.
this is standard stuff. some guy who doesn't know the first thing about game development tries to make an "indie game" (actually just a mod) and ropes in a bunch of wannabe artists with the hopes of profit-sharing. the dude will hype himself up by writing all business-like and will even give his fake studio a fake company name and assign people fake job titles. the project will begin development without any sort of plan then die off about 6 months later.
sadly this is a really common situation within the mod scene, and it's part of why i stopped caring about them.
as shocking as everything to do with that project and studio may be (this is a fun read by the way : http://www.snaketakes.ca/index.php/corp/studio ... probably want to slip a coder or two into the development process somewhere along the line ...), i'm not sure splashing private emails across a public forum is a particularly professional thing to do either
His letter was of course unprofessional. I don't know whole story, but your letter also has some ... unnecessary details?
You could have just said that game is not of particular style your team would like to work on and that you are not interested in unpaid work at the moment. As for level - it has particular purpose (graduation project) and is not your sole property, but a result of team effort, so it would not be appropriate to just give it away.
I believe there was no need to question abilities of his team/art lead in the letter, say how unexciting weapons/characters are, blame them for ripping off crysis nanosuit etcetera etcetera.
Rather than just doing a video game IP and trying to sell publishers on just a game format we wanted to round out the whole franchise, What we are calling a turn key franchise that publishers can than bid on and make more of a uh financial sense for them to pickup
Sucks to hear about all this, though I know of a "studio" here in the SD area that had the same sort of pipe dreams. Snatching up grads right out of college here, handing out "Lead" and "Senior" titles to people who had never seen the inside of an actual development studio in their lives. The worse part was that they had a license to a high end engine and a lot of cash from what I understand, but nothing came out of it in the end. Even the most amazing artists aren't necessarily managers, and the people with the biggest ideas don't always know how to run a business.
What a complete muppet. The fact that his response to what you wrote (which seemed quite professional in my opinion) was so pissy just shows the level of maturity and lack of intelligence we're dealing with here. Also, claiming you know nothing about games? I'd say avoid idiots like as much as possible XD
Every games course really needs to have a "how to identify and avoid shysters, ignorami and naive kids when looking for a job". I think most of the guys here with a little experience would have smelt the dodginess of this project from the very beginning, but so many kids straight of school get sucked into these projects - and it's not only crap indy projects. There are plenty of larger studios that throw newbies through the grinders just because they're too green to know any better. Team Bondi was a well known example and there are at least a couple of others in this country still operating in a similarly dubious fashion.
As a major online educator of upcoming game artists, maybe Polycount could use an article on the wiki or some such on how not to be a rube. I'd do it myself, but the scope of my experience is a little limited, so someone who's a bit better travelled may be better for the job.
Totes agree'd on some sort of information for newer people who haven't experienced this. It always sounds really promising when in reality its just jerkfaces trying to con free work out of students.
There was a dude here in melbourne who contacted me years ago, and it sounded really awesome; a very nice salary, him being in talks with microsoft, etc. In reality, any money was entirely dependent on a demo of his game that he needed other people to make for him, and his awesome connection to microsoft was some sort of dev software anyone can get through the ms website or somthing.
Hate when shit likes this happens... was going to look at current mods but this has reminded me how horrible they always end up : (
Was still an amusing read
it's funny how this guy wanted to "warn" his connections about you, but instead got warned about himself.
Though, to be honest, I would write the original letter in different manner. Just tell him you are busy with other stuff or just didn't find his offer acceptable - without much detail. Just because if this is someone you don't want to spend time on, then he isn't worth that many letters. So yeah, polite "Not interested" could be enough. Leave him be with his shady deeds.
Though I do feel sorry for the artists who this person manages, but I guess in the end we all have to learn the hard way.
thanks for the warning.
edit: just watched the video - they have some gut's putting that kind of thing on tv. should be an instant turn off for potential buyers, or it could be just a grandma kind of channel.
second edit: ok now I've just checked out the main character model omg, wtf %( ok, that kind of [irony]studios[/irony] are plain bad for the industry so thanks for calling the guy out on it.
Why make a game that looks the same as another game made by a studio with much more staff and budget than you have? Surely it's smarter to pick a more unique game mechanic, art direction, etc., and make an overall better game that isn't going to be compared with something that's been done before, better?
I recently was contacted by a company called Snake Takes with an offer to have a group of friends and I join their team. He told me he had a deal made with Epic Games and Reverb publishing to release a game of theirs called End Of The Beginning. Without too much backstory info, here's the jist. We declined his offer and he asked why. Here was my email response to him.
I think with this response, i was fairly straightforward and as little of a dick as I could have been, though it may appear as if I were at some point.
Here was his response. and thus.. HOW NOT TO BE A PROFESSIONAL!
some general backstory about this guy toward me.. he practically begged me time and time again for our level.. saying how amazing it was.
I seriously doubt this douche bag have a clue how business email works. Espacially "thank you reapond to the bad news part." Because one fuckin slip or mislead of a respond can cost you a fortune.
You can actually show this to your lawyers and see if you have enough to sue him since he wants to play that way.
Edit: awesome bad news message by the way. I would suggest you to just let it go. With these ethics you will surely succeed far better than him. Good luck.
I'm sorry... but this just looks terrible. If they mean going back to the beginning, they are right, because it looks like a game from N64
You don't even know what your talking about, the game looks soooo bad ass, seen all dem bloods? thats sure an 18!
[or as you say in the americas, M for MATURE]
Those hand-painted normals on that character are the bomb. Only 10K man-hours? I would have thought it would take 20-30K man hours to to paint a grayscale bumpmap that detailed.
maybe he was saying that Oniram possessed a "full of shit".
Oniram, I think you were unprofessional a bit in your communication with him, you spend a lot of time getting digs in that are not necessary or beneficial. He wasn't asking you for critique, telling him the art sucks and they take too long in any sense is really unnecessary unless you're on the team. Using words like "laughable" when describing their game to them is not appropriate.
Additionally, posting the whole thing here, and having your team chime in, is also unprofessional as hell.
This guy is not professional, is a joke, and is obviously a slimy "Unfinanced Entrepreneur" (this article should be required reading for anyone pursuing a creative career, btw. Written in '98 and still just as relevant), but that doesn't make your actions professional, either.
Replies
Great Language for a CEO and creator of an IP.
Btw just for some refrence, this is the guy that Oniram had to deal with.
Really dig that kickin UI :P
[ame="
Also, am I the only one who finds the 11.11.11 date obnoxious on their behalf? Putting out a game which is sub-par in demo state on 11.11.11, to have an excuse if it doesn't do well by saying "Oh Skyrim is came out, so we couldn't grab attention" seems really cheap.
Either way, you guys are awesome, don't let some first year CEO who cannot take rejection tell you other wise.
Never go full retard.
If that's the case, maybe somebody should drop a quick dime to Crytek and let them deal with Mr. James Yake, plagiarist extraordinaire.
I guess some Crytek guys will read this thread before someone send them an e-mail.
sadly this is a really common situation within the mod scene, and it's part of why i stopped caring about them.
10,000 hours is over a year of time, working 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
Skyline ripped his game off? Isn't that a bit like complaining Uwe Boll stole your idea?
Roundhouse kicks.
Also not that it isn't funny to see you reveal his project as a trojan horse but couldn't you have just said thanks but no thanks?
You could have just said that game is not of particular style your team would like to work on and that you are not interested in unpaid work at the moment. As for level - it has particular purpose (graduation project) and is not your sole property, but a result of team effort, so it would not be appropriate to just give it away.
I believe there was no need to question abilities of his team/art lead in the letter, say how unexciting weapons/characters are, blame them for ripping off crysis nanosuit etcetera etcetera.
This game looks awesome!
It's taking gaming back to what counts
What does this mean *shrug*
Another name to go on the list next to the rest of the scum...
--> Go to "http://www.snaketakes.ca/index.php/corp/jobs#environment_modeller"
--> Read the Bioware Montreal job descriptions : https://jobs.ea.com/search/view.do?id=a0z50000000zxmg
It's EXACTLY the same text! (except for "What skills does BioWare look for? ")
As a major online educator of upcoming game artists, maybe Polycount could use an article on the wiki or some such on how not to be a rube. I'd do it myself, but the scope of my experience is a little limited, so someone who's a bit better travelled may be better for the job.
There was a dude here in melbourne who contacted me years ago, and it sounded really awesome; a very nice salary, him being in talks with microsoft, etc. In reality, any money was entirely dependent on a demo of his game that he needed other people to make for him, and his awesome connection to microsoft was some sort of dev software anyone can get through the ms website or somthing.
Hate when shit likes this happens... was going to look at current mods but this has reminded me how horrible they always end up : (
Was still an amusing read
Though, to be honest, I would write the original letter in different manner. Just tell him you are busy with other stuff or just didn't find his offer acceptable - without much detail. Just because if this is someone you don't want to spend time on, then he isn't worth that many letters. So yeah, polite "Not interested" could be enough. Leave him be with his shady deeds.
Though I do feel sorry for the artists who this person manages, but I guess in the end we all have to learn the hard way.
thanks for the warning.
edit: just watched the video - they have some gut's putting that kind of thing on tv. should be an instant turn off for potential buyers, or it could be just a grandma kind of channel.
second edit: ok now I've just checked out the main character model omg, wtf %( ok, that kind of [irony]studios[/irony] are plain bad for the industry so thanks for calling the guy out on it.
Looks like anyone can be an artist, a ceo an astronaut...these days, titles cost nothing anyways...
Naive and excited graduate lead artist, it's sad and so very blatant to how the 'ceo' has suckered young people into this.
Disgraceful
It's you're
Haha. This thread is great. Made my Saturday.
I seriously doubt this douche bag have a clue how business email works. Espacially "thank you reapond to the bad news part." Because one fuckin slip or mislead of a respond can cost you a fortune.
You can actually show this to your lawyers and see if you have enough to sue him since he wants to play that way.
Edit: awesome bad news message by the way.
I lol'd on IRC.
I like how they spent all their time refining their clay tubes armor pieces.
I'm sorry... but this just looks terrible. If they mean going back to the beginning, they are right, because it looks like a game from N64
You don't even know what your talking about, the game looks soooo bad ass, seen all dem bloods? thats sure an 18!
[or as you say in the americas, M for MATURE]
propper boss!!!
The "game" looks like utter shit, the guy comes off as sleazy.. and who the hell recruits staff in this method?
10000 hours! thats almost 5 years of full time work lol. ...right?
maybe he was saying that Oniram possessed a "full of shit".
Oniram, I think you were unprofessional a bit in your communication with him, you spend a lot of time getting digs in that are not necessary or beneficial. He wasn't asking you for critique, telling him the art sucks and they take too long in any sense is really unnecessary unless you're on the team. Using words like "laughable" when describing their game to them is not appropriate.
Additionally, posting the whole thing here, and having your team chime in, is also unprofessional as hell.
This guy is not professional, is a joke, and is obviously a slimy "Unfinanced Entrepreneur" (this article should be required reading for anyone pursuing a creative career, btw. Written in '98 and still just as relevant), but that doesn't make your actions professional, either.
Hey now... no need to get personal. :P