Just tried this again, the version from Aug 24. Amazed at how much work is being put into this, kind of excited to use it!
I use a dvorak keyboard layout, so I have to switch into qwerty for this application in order to set up a normal-ish hotkey configuration... but even then the key customization seems fairly limited. Is there a reason, or is this something you are already planning to improve...?
essentially -
In order to use my normal key layout, ' , . and ; need to be options for hotkeys. Though all keys would be nice...
Why aren't there four boxes for all commands?
To be clear, this is what I mean by four boxes, sorry if I'm just complaining, but it seems strange. Not sure if I am properly explaining what I feel should be possible. Sorry, if so! The entire hotkey setup is kind of strange, so I'm not sure if this was the final solution...
Vrav: Thanks again!
I Will make ,./;'[]\ keys all available for customizing. I will also make 4 keyboxes for all commands.
Not quite sure what you meant by "The entire hotkey setup is kind of strange". Do you mean the hotkey settings or the customizing interface? Please give more assistance here.
Nothing is at its final solution at this stage, I make changes according to feedbacks.
Not quite sure what you meant by "The entire hotkey setup is kind of strange". Do you mean the hotkey settings or the customizing interface? Please give more assistance here.
Nothing is at its final solution at this stage, I make changes according to feedbacks.
I'm not sure either. There's just some image flickering in that and the other custom UI elements, like the radial menu. Certainly a livable thing, just seemed a bit rough. The hotkey customization is pretty usable as it is, so you shouldn't worry too much because I mentioned having flickering.
One thing that would be nice if it's not too much work is allow keyboard entry of commands when the keyboard image pops up. Instead of just clicking the button, to allow you to enter the command (and possibly combination) to set it. However, if that is too much work I'm sure there are other, greater priorities. Just a thought!
I tried the aug 28 built and feel the viewport performance is much better, not sure about you polyhertz, what system are you running, and Im not sure if you still need .net framework 1.1 in order to run smoothly.
Yeah I agree the radial menu is flickering, it's currently first implementation so things should be getting better along with optimization.
Here's my shameless plug of suggestion and idea for voidworld. This was intended for Kun only but I thought I'll share it to get feedback from you guys.
--Tips 01
Icon problem?
focus - hotkey f
viewport snap?
External file (xml, txt) that can be exported.
vertex loop, partial vertex loop
partial edge ring/loop
face loop, partial face loop
slide tools not on every edge.
extrude edge bug
streamline readability
normal move/local move
--soft selection
soft selection, bug in vw
--Tips 02
subdivision suggestion by Beatkitano
tweak modification
extended cut option (vertex connect bug if distance is too near),
ability to slide after few edges selected and connected, and also is
it possible to use cut and make it snap to center of edge (50%) by
holding shift or ctrl?
constrain slide, depending on tolerance, possibility to merge.
smooth/average/relax
simple save function into *.vws(vw scene)
simple export function
push tool (modo) /matchmaker (zbrush)
Hi guys,
Here is a quick update http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Aug-28a.rar
Summary of changes
*vertex connection bug fixed.
*Plane object can be created with selected images so it will have the same proportion as the the image.
*The radial menu spacing enlarged.
*The tweak tool now has two picking style: subobject picking and point picking. The shortcut tweak tool always uses the point picking style while the button tool has the options. When point picking is on, the sofselection will always be used regardless its enabled or not.
*The vertex slide and path selection featrues are available in edge slide tool G + lmb/mmb/rmb. Please don't confuse this vertex slide tool with the vertex slide tool in V+mmb. One is sliding vertex between two of its adjacent vertices like loop slide, the other one is sliding vertex along one of its edges.
*More keys are available for customizing. customizing key can be selected by tapping the key on keyboard after the keyboard layout form pops up.
*Welding will happen when S key released. The same improvement also applied to the edge bridge tool.
Still, some suggested featrues are in work progress.
Thanks!
Polyhertz: Please let me know if the navagation improved. I have made some changes for this.
Hmm i don't know why, but i can't use it with my tablet since 16aug version... as soon as I click a component (vert/face/edge), the mesh disappear. This doesn't happen when i use my mouse on tablet only with the stylus...
If I use mouse for first subcomponent selection everything works fine afterwards
[edit]: and now it works again, strange behaviour...
- Tweak tool is really nice now, but if in point mode soft selection is always on, could we hide the gizmo, it's distracting.
Remarks:
-Vertex welding is much nicer to use that way, but now I have question, wouldn't it be more logical if S in vert was the same function than s in edge ?
Right now we have welding with verts, and loop spliting in edge, edge could have the collapse function , the same way than verts only with edges (could be more than one edge too)
I know I can change that with hotkeys, but my point here is for the streamline policy you have, I think it would be better to have tools that work regardless of subcomponent mode and only adapt to what component mode you're in.
-vertex sliding (g key), right now it's hard to use if you hover an edge (thinking you will select the vert ^^), when you activate the key it automatially switch to edge sliding, you can't select what you want to do in first place. This also goes the same way than verts merge/slpit loops, g could do the vertex sliding if you're in vertex mode.
-radial menus: it's a bit better but in fact after a few tests, it's not really the spacing that make it awkward to use, it's the hotzone. It's too small. If you move just a little from the central point it select the action, the movement should be broader to take effect. That way, when you have memorised in what direction your items are you can just do a large stroke quickly to activate.
My guess is it would be almost perfect if you needed to draw a ray from central point to extremity (and maybe a bit more) of left/right item
That way, no more unwanted actions
-Also, a lot of fatal error crash, can't find a pattern though
Sorry, but no, still stuck at 13fps. I think that their's something wrong with your fps limiter code, cause theirs no other reason it should be going this slow that I can think of.
fyi I'm running xp64 w/ framework 1.1 installed.
On eltes suggestions, I agree with a number of things he said. "f" should be focus, and I'd love to have a viewport snap function (see sculptris "z" or zbrushs "shift" snap function). Then have a second button to toggle ortho/perspective mode.
Polyhertz: Can you try out this debug built. http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Aug-28b.rar
I put back on the debug function. In my computer, I can get 800 fps at normal run, 5000 at empty run and 10000 at dummy run. There is no fps limiter in this built.
BeatKitano: I will improve the edge G tool. If the cursor is over a vertex, the auto edge sliding operation will not be activated. When S key is pressed in vertex mode, the programe will attemp to weld selected vertices, the same for selected edges if its in edge mode.
I don't know whats tablet. If you can tell me how it works, I may get a clue of why the mesh disappears.
No, I only have Radeon HD5570.
Yea with this build I'm getting about 1500fps with dummy run and 15,000fps with a empty run. So it definitely is the limiter at fault. I've gotta say with the limiter off it runs amazingly well
Polyhertz: Can you try out this built. http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Aug-28c.rar
I put back on some codes so only when user interact with the programe the rendering can occur. In this way to avoid the graphic card at full render load at all time.
It should run fine as before as I am quite sure the problem is caused by the unexpected timing behaviour in your computer.
The viewport still has some issues though: I regularly get viewport flicker (white flashes), which seems to be an issue when the viewport refreshes.
Also something I noticed is that while the camera will rotate around the selection, normally if you get too close the camera will lose track of where the selection center is and rotate incorrectly. Other times it'll 'pause' for a moment before rotating if you too close to the selected component.
Polyhertz: If the selection center is out off the screen, the programe will use the screen center as the pivot point. Thats the design behaviour as suggested by r_fletch_r.
BeatKitano: "could we hide the gizmo, it's distracting". Do you mean the gizmo is the transform manipulator or the softselection falloff cage?
Allthrough the transform manipulator can be turned off manually, I can auto hide it when the tweak tool is live. As for the falloff cage, I can hide it when the dragging started. If the falloff cage completely hidden, user may get lost, I am afraid. What do you think?
I can't play the video. I can play .avi file, but just can't play this one.
on right hand side of the window, under edge or polygon mode, you can find some selection tools that can convert selection from one component to another.
When a polygon selected, its edge and vertices will be selected automatically.
When an edge selected, its vertices will be selected at the same time too.
The convert feature is a bit confusion (under select). It assumes whatever component mode your in is the one you want to convert to, when in every other app its the other way around. So if your in vertex mode, your going to want to convert your selection to either edge, face, border, or element at the most basic level. So it converts the selection to whatever component mode you wish to enter, and then automatically switches to that mode.
I see, you are using the subobject pick style.
Under vertex mode, turn on the Tweak tool button. The pull tool should be on by default, thats the original tweak tool.
You can see, there are subobject pick and point pick style options. The short cut tweak tool always uses the point pick option.
Ah. Well I cant figure out how 'point pick' works at all. The 'Subobject Pick' method is what is traditionally used either way though, and should probably be the default. I have it set to "t" in max (which seems to not be in use in VoidWorld atm, and makes sense imo, t=tweak). It doesn't seem to work with highlighting though, something it really needs to have to be effective.
One thing I notice in VoidWorld is that selecting vertices and edges is a bit challenging, since you have to click so close to them. In Silo, the mouse has a selection radius of about 35 pixels (screen space), whereas in VoidWorld it is more like 2. A larger radius on the mouse when it comes to highlighting elements for selection would be very welcome.
Played with the tweak tool today, pressing v - a bit ticky, unpredictable, but once you get it going the MMB function is pretty cool.
About the hotkeys - thanks! But what do I do if I wish to set weld to ctrl+x?
One thing I notice in VoidWorld is that selecting vertices and edges is a bit challenging, since you have to click so close to them. In Silo, the mouse has a selection radius of about 35 pixels (screen space), whereas in VoidWorld it is more like 2. A larger radius on the mouse when it comes to highlighting elements for selection would be very welcome.
The option to change that radius to preference as well would be very nice.
IStonia, here is a short (5min) video I made talking about tweak and how it works in Silo. Not sure if this will help, but basically just my thoughts on the matter. Sorry for the compression! Tried to keep it .avi but the audio kept getting out of sync.
There is a streamline customization tool, everything is not final at the moment in term of hotkey assignment, but once it's getting there we should be able to create a preset, like blender startup screen perhaps.
@vrav I've seen your video. That's kinda explicit model you're creating Maybe I can make few points here regarding the tweak tool you're suggesting for voidworld.
- tweak tool should work in vertex, edge, face.
- when there is selection, tweak tool only constrain/affect to the selection, but you still be able to move it when cursor is not highlighting it.
- when there is no selection, tweak tool works in any mode (vert,edge,face)
- tweak tool is divided into 3, tweak move, tweak rotate, tweak scale.
- when we're in move mode (w), tweak tool becomes tweak move
- when we're in rotate mode (e), tweak tool becomes tweak rotate
- when we're in scale mode (r), tweak tool becomes tweak scale.
- Those 3 tweak move, tweak rotate, tweak scale share 1 hotkey, and the hotkey works depending on the mode you're in.
- Tweak move, rotate, scale work in camera plane.
- lets say we assign 't' as tweak, 't' can have 2 behavior, by tapping to toggle the tool on/off, or press and hold to temporarily activate the tool, once you release the tool is off
- pressing t will only 'activate' the tool, next operation is performed by lmb/mmb/rmb
- when tweak tool is on, scroll up/down to set radius.
- Instead of a 'sphere' as a guide, simple circle with color highlight and falloff is prefered.
lmb/mmb/rmb suggestion:
LMB: tweak the component
MMB: tweak the component with cull off (means the component behind is also affected)
RMB: ? no idea yet maybe click and drag to change radius?
another suggestion:
Can we set default object creation color to grey by default.. I sometimes get striking color and it hurts my eyes.
Viewport navigation could be solved by making camera pan, rotate and zoom customizable key/mouse combinations, if possible. I think they were in an older version... I can't remember. For example I personally just use regular MMB to pan, which I don't think anyone does. Unless that's default 3ds style or something.
At that however it would also be nice to customize the combinations for selection. In Silo for example, you can configure Select Visible Add, Complement (which is the boolean with box selection) and Subtract, Select Thru Add, Complement and Subtract, etc, individually, allowing for a selection system much like that which is in VoidWorld now.
Is there a selection style in VoidWorld similar to the "Paint-Style Selection" in Silo?
elte - nice list! I don't want to seem like I'm asking for a whole new tweak tool or something, but these are some essential functions in my opinion. If such actions could fit into VW's toolset, they would be awesome to have IMO.
Man...sorry to say this but your website look so 90's
My first impression is that this software feels more like a toy.
Not much information provided (screenshot, video, feature).
If most of the features are already in the common used package, I won't bother to give it a try though.
Sorry for being honest.
Agreed, there is definitely a 90's "We run a computer website company, ever heard of that?" Kinda feel. I mean, I think it's pretty awesome that you've made this sort of thing, OP, but what is the thing that really stands out here? What's going to really make people go to your package instead of using the juggernauts we know as Max and Maya?
@vrav, yes there is... you have to highlight a component first.
LMB perform marquee/lasso selection
MMB has 2 modes, if cursor is not highlighting, it will perform marquee selection with culling off (u can select component not visible in camera). If cursor highlight the component, it will perform 'paint select'
@Taylor we're still improving the software itself, so the website will be abandoned for a while. Im not sure how you compare this with max or maya, both are complete solution while this software is focused on modeling.
@Taylor we're still improving the software itself, so the website will be abandoned for a while. Im not sure how you compare this with max or maya, both are complete solution while this software is focused on modeling.
I guess you're right. All I'm saying is that even though Max and Maya offer more than just Modeling, the actual modeling tool set in each of these basically glues the user to them because they are so refined and easy to use, for the most part. Now, Autodesk have been doing this for years. It's just what they do. And I can understand I probably sound a bit crazy for comparing a small teams work to a major company.
But major props on making something like that, my friend.
elte, awesome! I tried it and saw how it works. Thanks.
Is there some way to perform "select thru" and "select subtract" type functions with MMB?
Taylor, a lot of people would disagree about modeling in the major suites. They're fully functional, of course, and have good features (modifier stack in 3ds, etc) but sadly are not quite as streamlined, being full of legacy-based incontinuity, which is sort of the reason programs like Silo and Modo exist. You mention that they offer more, but VoidWorld was originally presented with UVing, rigging and animation already in. I believe the dream may still be to create a modern suite as such (?), but to focus on the modeling tools and UI, strengthening the program's foundation first, is wise, in my opinion. When done well, user interest in the application will become more widespread, which is what an app like this needs.
Yeah, there's definetely room for vw if it continues on this path of streamlined and contextual tool... and stability of course (cause we don't want a silo number two right ?)
Seems lke a good list Elte hope everything in it gets implemented (and thanks to Vrav, I forgot how good silo tweak tool was to make the right suggestion for voidworld)
@vrav Can you elaborate select thru? Try to play around with ctrl,shift, ctrl+shift
ctrl = subtract selection
shift = toggle selection, selected become unselected and vice versa
ctrl+shift = add selection
Can I trust that there's a little love of Silo in this? :<
I bought Silo a few months back.. Love the tool to death, but like everyone else has said before me, they just died off or hardly support it anymore.
elte: You know how when you do a box select with MMB, and it selects facing as well as backfacing? That's all I mean by "select thru," where it selects all faces through the model. However, I've been messing with it a bit in VoidWorld and I don't know if it's necessary to make paint-style select through possible. I do it in Silo because I'm weird I guess, but in VW I really like the lasso selection, which works with MMB for "select through."
It's actually pretty nice to just be able to middle-click a lasso selection and get the whole limb. I like it, and it works with ctrl and/or shift too. So it's different than what I'm used to, but a good different, which is nice.
Not sure if this is something you already intend to look at, the inset tool feels a bit odd and I can't really explain why, so I just did a few comparisons. I think it may be because the edges radial from the inset faces are just being extended constantly (marked by the little arrows). But I'm not sure why it looks like that and it could totally be a fluke, like I just did something stupid, I really don't know and couldn't say what the ideal result or solution would be.
Summary of changes
* All short cut key combo are all max 4 keys.
* Selection radius can be customized through menu "Edit > Preference".
* Vertex S tool improved. When S is pressed down, the programe will attempt to weld existing selected vertices.
Edge S tool also improved. When S is pressed down, the programe will attempt to weld existing selected edges.
* Sudivision hot key changed. ` for desub, `+1/2/3/4 for subdivion level 1/2/3/4.
* New Polygon H tool, local move selected polygons.
* New Vertex H tool, normal move and relax selected vertices. Note: Edge relax tools already exit in edge button tools, "Loop Relax" and "Loop Tidy".
* Vertex G tool now has 4 features, slide between two vertices (variation of loop slide), slide alon edge, slide along face, position snapping.
* For some shortcut tool, when activated or when cursor is moved with no button pressed after activation, commands or actions may occur. Although This privides a fast way to do an action, but it could also become a land mine since it makes it easy for people to create unexpected modifications by accident without noticing. In case some users may not like it, these two features can be disabled by unchecking menu "StreamLine Engine Options > Activation Command Enabled/NMB Action Enabled". By default, they are enabled.
* Alt+LMB+MMB is fixed for zoom.
* Space or Ctrl+Space = Snap View. One will change the view to orthographic while the other will maintain as is. Click first time, the view will snap. Click second time, the view will resume back to previous settings.
* The polygon Inset tool improved.
* Objects can be scaled in inividual axis under Object Mode.
* When using MMB for click or paint selection, if key "Caps Lock" is pressed down, it will select through.
* A Refresh button is added into the right-hand vertical tool bar. If objects disappear for unkown reason, try this button to recover.
* When doing polygon extrusion or inset operation, if want to divide the extrusion into segments, hit a number button (2-9) to finish the operation. The extrusion will be divided into a number of segments base on the number of the hit key.
* Tweak tool "T" rebuild. It has tweak/scale/rotate features. The tweak pick default style now is subobject style, but can be customized to point style through button tweak tool's control panel under vertex mode.
Another Tweak tool "V" also build. The different thing it does is picking subobjects through a ray cast by the cursor.
There are still bugs and stability issue in this build. I think it's best to stop introducing new tool and rather working toward making this program more functional and stable, along with refining the workflow.
It's shaping REALLY well, I agree about stability and feature, right now the program happen to crash without reason. I tried to recreate some, I can't. Kinda random. I think silo fans are gona LOVE your app Istonia (nto because it crash often, ok awkward sentence sequence ahah).
Remarks:
You made warning messages on double hotkey assignement (thanks), that's nice, but it would be much more usefull if by clicking ok you unassigned the hotkey to the previous assignement.
[edit] it's really awesome so far, I feel at home even though the dev is just at the beginning. Custom selection radius+ T tweak tool: awesome silo feeling.
BeatKitano: Can you tell me what kind of crashes you encountered so I may have a clue. It happened to me twice when I tried to select a polygon in a box, the box disappeared. I can't explained that since a selection won't modify the object. It seems to be rendering buffer issue.
If crashes occured, try one of these: 1. Click the Refresh button that is just added in the new version. 2. Save the object, restart the programe and reload the object. The programe has a mechanism that checks and repare object data during loading. 3. perform undo redo, only do this if the object disappeared.
Hi, Achille: Currently the developement is focusing on improving and strengthening the modeling features and the other features are temprorarily hidden from user. Thanks for bringing this into my attention.
Cool program! It's great to see how it's progressing!
Currently maximizing and minimizing is iffy for me. I'm on Windows 7 x64 and the maximize/restore button is inactive until I toggle full screen mode on and off again. Resizing the window also doesn't change the interface. All the UI elements just get cut off.
Some suggestions:
Easy File menu. Needs SIMPLE options for making a new scene, opening scenes, saving scene/as/copy, merging scenes, importing and exporting objects. Most programs do this well, and how your program does this now isn't very friendly or standard.
Edge chamfer only does a single iteration. Other programs allow for an unlimited amount, but some (like Modo) keep quads better than others (like Max, Maya.)
Spinners for the UI. Max and Photoshop allow you to drag areas of value entry boxes to quickly adjust values.
Dark or editable color schemes. It's not really essential by any means, but I can't stand bright interfaces!
Also in the new "customize tools" menu, the word toggle is missing an E.
That looks so good!!!, racer445, I thank you many many billion times. I got a problem now, I need to make the programe good enough to match this outstanding logo.
Replies
I use a dvorak keyboard layout, so I have to switch into qwerty for this application in order to set up a normal-ish hotkey configuration... but even then the key customization seems fairly limited. Is there a reason, or is this something you are already planning to improve...?
essentially -
To be clear, this is what I mean by four boxes, sorry if I'm just complaining, but it seems strange. Not sure if I am properly explaining what I feel should be possible. Sorry, if so! The entire hotkey setup is kind of strange, so I'm not sure if this was the final solution...
Vrav: Thanks again!
I Will make ,./;'[]\ keys all available for customizing. I will also make 4 keyboxes for all commands.
Not quite sure what you meant by "The entire hotkey setup is kind of strange". Do you mean the hotkey settings or the customizing interface? Please give more assistance here.
Nothing is at its final solution at this stage, I make changes according to feedbacks.
One thing that would be nice if it's not too much work is allow keyboard entry of commands when the keyboard image pops up. Instead of just clicking the button, to allow you to enter the command (and possibly combination) to set it. However, if that is too much work I'm sure there are other, greater priorities. Just a thought!
I'll try to work with Voidworld more soon.
Yeah I agree the radial menu is flickering, it's currently first implementation so things should be getting better along with optimization.
[ame]
[ame]
[ame]
Overall this is the summary from the video:
--Tips 01
Icon problem?
focus - hotkey f
viewport snap?
External file (xml, txt) that can be exported.
vertex loop, partial vertex loop
partial edge ring/loop
face loop, partial face loop
slide tools not on every edge.
extrude edge bug
streamline readability
normal move/local move
--soft selection
soft selection, bug in vw
--Tips 02
subdivision suggestion by Beatkitano
tweak modification
extended cut option (vertex connect bug if distance is too near),
ability to slide after few edges selected and connected, and also is
it possible to use cut and make it snap to center of edge (50%) by
holding shift or ctrl?
constrain slide, depending on tolerance, possibility to merge.
smooth/average/relax
simple save function into *.vws(vw scene)
simple export function
push tool (modo) /matchmaker (zbrush)
Here is a quick update
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Aug-28a.rar
Summary of changes
*vertex connection bug fixed.
*Plane object can be created with selected images so it will have the same proportion as the the image.
*The radial menu spacing enlarged.
*The tweak tool now has two picking style: subobject picking and point picking. The shortcut tweak tool always uses the point picking style while the button tool has the options. When point picking is on, the sofselection will always be used regardless its enabled or not.
*The vertex slide and path selection featrues are available in edge slide tool G + lmb/mmb/rmb. Please don't confuse this vertex slide tool with the vertex slide tool in V+mmb. One is sliding vertex between two of its adjacent vertices like loop slide, the other one is sliding vertex along one of its edges.
*More keys are available for customizing. customizing key can be selected by tapping the key on keyboard after the keyboard layout form pops up.
*Welding will happen when S key released. The same improvement also applied to the edge bridge tool.
Still, some suggested featrues are in work progress.
Thanks!
Polyhertz: Please let me know if the navagation improved. I have made some changes for this.
If I use mouse for first subcomponent selection everything works fine afterwards
[edit]: and now it works again, strange behaviour...
- Tweak tool is really nice now, but if in point mode soft selection is always on, could we hide the gizmo, it's distracting.
Remarks:
-Vertex welding is much nicer to use that way, but now I have question, wouldn't it be more logical if S in vert was the same function than s in edge ?
Right now we have welding with verts, and loop spliting in edge, edge could have the collapse function , the same way than verts only with edges (could be more than one edge too)
I know I can change that with hotkeys, but my point here is for the streamline policy you have, I think it would be better to have tools that work regardless of subcomponent mode and only adapt to what component mode you're in.
-vertex sliding (g key), right now it's hard to use if you hover an edge (thinking you will select the vert ^^), when you activate the key it automatially switch to edge sliding, you can't select what you want to do in first place. This also goes the same way than verts merge/slpit loops, g could do the vertex sliding if you're in vertex mode.
-radial menus: it's a bit better but in fact after a few tests, it's not really the spacing that make it awkward to use, it's the hotzone. It's too small. If you move just a little from the central point it select the action, the movement should be broader to take effect. That way, when you have memorised in what direction your items are you can just do a large stroke quickly to activate.
My guess is it would be almost perfect if you needed to draw a ray from central point to extremity (and maybe a bit more) of left/right item
That way, no more unwanted actions
-Also, a lot of fatal error crash, can't find a pattern though
fyi I'm running xp64 w/ framework 1.1 installed.
On eltes suggestions, I agree with a number of things he said. "f" should be focus, and I'd love to have a viewport snap function (see sculptris "z" or zbrushs "shift" snap function). Then have a second button to toggle ortho/perspective mode.
I put back on the debug function. In my computer, I can get 800 fps at normal run, 5000 at empty run and 10000 at dummy run. There is no fps limiter in this built.
BeatKitano: I will improve the edge G tool. If the cursor is over a vertex, the auto edge sliding operation will not be activated. When S key is pressed in vertex mode, the programe will attemp to weld selected vertices, the same for selected edges if its in edge mode.
I don't know whats tablet. If you can tell me how it works, I may get a clue of why the mesh disappears.
No, I only have Radeon HD5570.
8800GT
I feel somehow its getting close to max/maya performance. Quite smooth and fluid.
The G key is weird and its workflow might be confusing.
I'll record my suggestion on monday. Have a great weekend guys.
Tablet is a device like a drawing pad.
http://intuos.wacom.com/
I put back on some codes so only when user interact with the programe the rendering can occur. In this way to avoid the graphic card at full render load at all time.
It should run fine as before as I am quite sure the problem is caused by the unexpected timing behaviour in your computer.
I will try c now.
The viewport still has some issues though: I regularly get viewport flicker (white flashes), which seems to be an issue when the viewport refreshes.
Also something I noticed is that while the camera will rotate around the selection, normally if you get too close the camera will lose track of where the selection center is and rotate incorrectly. Other times it'll 'pause' for a moment before rotating if you too close to the selected component.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Aug-29a.rar
Polyhertz: If the selection center is out off the screen, the programe will use the screen center as the pivot point. Thats the design behaviour as suggested by r_fletch_r.
BeatKitano: "could we hide the gizmo, it's distracting". Do you mean the gizmo is the transform manipulator or the softselection falloff cage?
Allthrough the transform manipulator can be turned off manually, I can auto hide it when the tweak tool is live. As for the falloff cage, I can hide it when the dragging started. If the falloff cage completely hidden, user may get lost, I am afraid. What do you think?
I just tried the tweak tool btw, and I didnt find it to work quite like how Id want, try making it work more like this: http://www.polyhertz3d.com/forumjunk/icTweak.avi
Also, Is their a way to convert selection from one component to another? Like vrom vert to attached faces, edge to attached verts, etcc ?
on right hand side of the window, under edge or polygon mode, you can find some selection tools that can convert selection from one component to another.
When a polygon selected, its edge and vertices will be selected automatically.
When an edge selected, its vertices will be selected at the same time too.
The convert feature is a bit confusion (under select). It assumes whatever component mode your in is the one you want to convert to, when in every other app its the other way around. So if your in vertex mode, your going to want to convert your selection to either edge, face, border, or element at the most basic level. So it converts the selection to whatever component mode you wish to enter, and then automatically switches to that mode.
Under vertex mode, turn on the Tweak tool button. The pull tool should be on by default, thats the original tweak tool.
You can see, there are subobject pick and point pick style options. The short cut tweak tool always uses the point pick option.
Played with the tweak tool today, pressing v - a bit ticky, unpredictable, but once you get it going the MMB function is pretty cool.
About the hotkeys - thanks! But what do I do if I wish to set weld to ctrl+x?
The option to change that radius to preference as well would be very nice.
IStonia, here is a short (5min) video I made talking about tweak and how it works in Silo. Not sure if this will help, but basically just my thoughts on the matter. Sorry for the compression! Tried to keep it .avi but the audio kept getting out of sync.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/398143/Files/junks/silovw_tweak.wmv
By any chance is this going to have a list preset navigation settings?
If so, please add an option for Maya/Silo navigation. ^^
There is a streamline customization tool, everything is not final at the moment in term of hotkey assignment, but once it's getting there we should be able to create a preset, like blender startup screen perhaps.
- tweak tool should work in vertex, edge, face.
- when there is selection, tweak tool only constrain/affect to the selection, but you still be able to move it when cursor is not highlighting it.
- when there is no selection, tweak tool works in any mode (vert,edge,face)
- tweak tool is divided into 3, tweak move, tweak rotate, tweak scale.
- when we're in move mode (w), tweak tool becomes tweak move
- when we're in rotate mode (e), tweak tool becomes tweak rotate
- when we're in scale mode (r), tweak tool becomes tweak scale.
- Those 3 tweak move, tweak rotate, tweak scale share 1 hotkey, and the hotkey works depending on the mode you're in.
- Tweak move, rotate, scale work in camera plane.
- lets say we assign 't' as tweak, 't' can have 2 behavior, by tapping to toggle the tool on/off, or press and hold to temporarily activate the tool, once you release the tool is off
- pressing t will only 'activate' the tool, next operation is performed by lmb/mmb/rmb
- when tweak tool is on, scroll up/down to set radius.
- Instead of a 'sphere' as a guide, simple circle with color highlight and falloff is prefered.
lmb/mmb/rmb suggestion:
LMB: tweak the component
MMB: tweak the component with cull off (means the component behind is also affected)
RMB: ? no idea yet
another suggestion:
Can we set default object creation color to grey by default.. I sometimes get striking color and it hurts my eyes.
At that however it would also be nice to customize the combinations for selection. In Silo for example, you can configure Select Visible Add, Complement (which is the boolean with box selection) and Subtract, Select Thru Add, Complement and Subtract, etc, individually, allowing for a selection system much like that which is in VoidWorld now.
Is there a selection style in VoidWorld similar to the "Paint-Style Selection" in Silo?
elte - nice list! I don't want to seem like I'm asking for a whole new tweak tool or something, but these are some essential functions in my opinion. If such actions could fit into VW's toolset, they would be awesome to have IMO.
LMB perform marquee/lasso selection
MMB has 2 modes, if cursor is not highlighting, it will perform marquee selection with culling off (u can select component not visible in camera). If cursor highlight the component, it will perform 'paint select'
@Taylor we're still improving the software itself, so the website will be abandoned for a while. Im not sure how you compare this with max or maya, both are complete solution while this software is focused on modeling.
I guess you're right. All I'm saying is that even though Max and Maya offer more than just Modeling, the actual modeling tool set in each of these basically glues the user to them because they are so refined and easy to use, for the most part. Now, Autodesk have been doing this for years. It's just what they do. And I can understand I probably sound a bit crazy for comparing a small teams work to a major company.
But major props on making something like that, my friend.
Is there some way to perform "select thru" and "select subtract" type functions with MMB?
Taylor, a lot of people would disagree about modeling in the major suites. They're fully functional, of course, and have good features (modifier stack in 3ds, etc) but sadly are not quite as streamlined, being full of legacy-based incontinuity, which is sort of the reason programs like Silo and Modo exist. You mention that they offer more, but VoidWorld was originally presented with UVing, rigging and animation already in. I believe the dream may still be to create a modern suite as such (?), but to focus on the modeling tools and UI, strengthening the program's foundation first, is wise, in my opinion. When done well, user interest in the application will become more widespread, which is what an app like this needs.
Seems lke a good list Elte hope everything in it gets implemented (and thanks to Vrav, I forgot how good silo tweak tool was to make the right suggestion for voidworld)
ctrl = subtract selection
shift = toggle selection, selected become unselected and vice versa
ctrl+shift = add selection
I bought Silo a few months back.. Love the tool to death, but like everyone else has said before me, they just died off or hardly support it anymore.
It's actually pretty nice to just be able to middle-click a lasso selection and get the whole limb. I like it, and it works with ctrl and/or shift too. So it's different than what I'm used to, but a good different, which is nice.
Not sure if this is something you already intend to look at, the inset tool feels a bit odd and I can't really explain why, so I just did a few comparisons. I think it may be because the edges radial from the inset faces are just being extended constantly (marked by the little arrows). But I'm not sure why it looks like that and it could totally be a fluke, like I just did something stupid, I really don't know and couldn't say what the ideal result or solution would be.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/VoidWorld-Sept-06.rar
Summary of changes
* All short cut key combo are all max 4 keys.
* Selection radius can be customized through menu "Edit > Preference".
* Vertex S tool improved. When S is pressed down, the programe will attempt to weld existing selected vertices.
Edge S tool also improved. When S is pressed down, the programe will attempt to weld existing selected edges.
* Sudivision hot key changed. ` for desub, `+1/2/3/4 for subdivion level 1/2/3/4.
* New Polygon H tool, local move selected polygons.
* New Vertex H tool, normal move and relax selected vertices. Note: Edge relax tools already exit in edge button tools, "Loop Relax" and "Loop Tidy".
* Vertex G tool now has 4 features, slide between two vertices (variation of loop slide), slide alon edge, slide along face, position snapping.
* For some shortcut tool, when activated or when cursor is moved with no button pressed after activation, commands or actions may occur. Although This privides a fast way to do an action, but it could also become a land mine since it makes it easy for people to create unexpected modifications by accident without noticing. In case some users may not like it, these two features can be disabled by unchecking menu "StreamLine Engine Options > Activation Command Enabled/NMB Action Enabled". By default, they are enabled.
* Alt+LMB+MMB is fixed for zoom.
* Space or Ctrl+Space = Snap View. One will change the view to orthographic while the other will maintain as is. Click first time, the view will snap. Click second time, the view will resume back to previous settings.
* The polygon Inset tool improved.
* Objects can be scaled in inividual axis under Object Mode.
* When using MMB for click or paint selection, if key "Caps Lock" is pressed down, it will select through.
* A Refresh button is added into the right-hand vertical tool bar. If objects disappear for unkown reason, try this button to recover.
* When doing polygon extrusion or inset operation, if want to divide the extrusion into segments, hit a number button (2-9) to finish the operation. The extrusion will be divided into a number of segments base on the number of the hit key.
* Tweak tool "T" rebuild. It has tweak/scale/rotate features. The tweak pick default style now is subobject style, but can be customized to point style through button tweak tool's control panel under vertex mode.
Another Tweak tool "V" also build. The different thing it does is picking subobjects through a ray cast by the cursor.
Thanks!
Screenshot of selection radius customization
There are still bugs and stability issue in this build. I think it's best to stop introducing new tool and rather working toward making this program more functional and stable, along with refining the workflow.
Please throw some suggestions and comments.
Thanks!
Remarks:
You made warning messages on double hotkey assignement (thanks), that's nice, but it would be much more usefull if by clicking ok you unassigned the hotkey to the previous assignement.
[edit] it's really awesome so far, I feel at home even though the dev is just at the beginning. Custom selection radius+ T tweak tool: awesome silo feeling.
If crashes occured, try one of these: 1. Click the Refresh button that is just added in the new version. 2. Save the object, restart the programe and reload the object. The programe has a mechanism that checks and repare object data during loading. 3. perform undo redo, only do this if the object disappeared.
Thank you.
Achille
Currently maximizing and minimizing is iffy for me. I'm on Windows 7 x64 and the maximize/restore button is inactive until I toggle full screen mode on and off again. Resizing the window also doesn't change the interface. All the UI elements just get cut off.
Some suggestions:
Easy File menu. Needs SIMPLE options for making a new scene, opening scenes, saving scene/as/copy, merging scenes, importing and exporting objects. Most programs do this well, and how your program does this now isn't very friendly or standard.
Edge chamfer only does a single iteration. Other programs allow for an unlimited amount, but some (like Modo) keep quads better than others (like Max, Maya.)
Spinners for the UI. Max and Photoshop allow you to drag areas of value entry boxes to quickly adjust values.
Dark or editable color schemes. It's not really essential by any means, but I can't stand bright interfaces!
Also in the new "customize tools" menu, the word toggle is missing an E.