Am I thinking of a different climb? Everyone from beyond the wall mobilized in the books, and there were mammoths, and giants
That involved
no climbing, just a siege that went on for quite a while... And it all happened because Jon managed to alert the Watch and stop the attack that was supposed to open the gates under the wall.
Yeah, we're talking about the same event. It was many times awesomer in the book. Pity!
Nah, that's an entirely different event that has yet to occur. I'd still expect it to be smaller than the book though, judging by other massive battles being off-screen for budget reasons (Lannisters vs the Starks,The Battle of the Fist of the First Men, etc). At most it will probably be comparable to Blackwater
At most it will probably be comparable to Blackwater
Is there anything else similarly grand scale to happen in - where it most likely belongs - the next season?
I mean there's the big wedding but that'll just require one set and lotsa costumes for various extras.
Of course they should also get the scene where
Stannis arrives with his army
or where
Tyirion's champion fights Cersei's
and a few more cities will have to appear too, but these are probably not such an exceptional dent in the budget. I mean they always add a few new sets to the existing ones, and there's always some room for new characters to appear...
Is there anything else similarly grand scale to happen in - where it most likely belongs - the next season?
I had originally heard they were going to split this book up into two seasons, but at current pace that doesn't seem likely unless they start to create a good deal of new content to drag things out a bit.
I imagine this season will end with the wall being attacked. Whether or not it ends with Stanis arriving or if it saves that as the opening for next season it's hard to say. I sincerely hope its not treated like the Fist was (season ending with a massive army of wildlings approaching the wall for a cliff hanger, and then picking up the next season with the aftermath, without showing the action).
The three weddings probably wouldn't be as big of a budget drain and should also take place this season. Two don't require any real action or special effects, and the one people wont shut up about really only needs a few seconds of chaos followed by an establishing shot to show whats going on outside.
That would probably free the forth season to focus on Tyrion's imprisonment while starting to introduce Dorne, the Iron Islands, the Eyrie and the Sparrows more. I can't really think of any large scale (army vs army) battles around this period, but then again it was more focused on a specific region than the other books.
Jon parting with Ygritte, and whatever they came up with to save Tormund for later seasons.
The attack from Mance will be the high point of this plot thread for the next season instead. There's also not enough time for it as they have 4 episodes to cover Jon running away from the wildlings, organizing the defense of Castle Black, and fighting the wildlings.
It's also a budget hog with large CG crowd scenes, giants and hopefully mammoths, definitely no room for that. Especially as they have to cover the RW too. So it makes sense to save up for it, especially as Dany will have far less spectacle after arriving at Mereen. So this year the VFX budget went to Astapor and Yunkai on Essos, next year it's Westeros again.
Joffrey's wedding is definitely next season material, there needs to be some buildup, Oberyn Martell has to arrive and he hasn't even been cast yet, but he needs to be present at the wedding. Tyrion is the one to meet and befriend him and it can't happen after he's imprisoned.
So this season we'll only see RW and Tryion + Sansa and that's it.
I think it's far more likely that season 4 will not only finish book 3 but also start book 4 and 5... If they want to fit the series into 8 seasons as they've said, they must leave room for the last two books and I doubt one season for each is going to be enough.
Tt's been a while since I've read through them all, but I think there are some OK cliffhanger points throughout those two. And Martin has already admitted moving several resolutions of book 5 plots into book 6, which everyone who read them has to agree with.
Although
of course the best WTF ending for the next season would be when Tyirion finds out if his father really shits gold...
Must be a pretty damn interesting and fun puzzle to shuffle all these plotlines around, with the freedom of several books'/seasons' worth of material already completed.
I think there's enough time left in this season for that. He's already south of the wall, so all he really needs is an episode to have a near encounter with Bran along with his escape (1 episode), the return the Castle Black and the smaller battle there (1 episode), and then finally the attack on the wall (which would make for an ideal season finale cliffhanger).
The red wedding would definitely fit in nicely, which gives Cat the potential to steal the last scene of the season after the credits (where last one had the others). Joffery's wedding might be a squeeze, but if there are still 4 episodes to go then I think it can still fit in episode 10. I don't think Oberyn will be a problem since the show does take liberties with how it introduces characters and he already has his reasons to fight Clegane without needing to befriend Tyrion (something I think he could still do even if he was imprisoned and waiting trial). It would be as good a time as any to introduce him in the show, and they'll be needing new cast members anyway.
Episode 7 looks like it is going to be the bear scene, John and the wildlings, some filler with Theon, and Mereen. That still leaves them with 8, 9, and 10, which is a lot of screen time to fit in the next few chapters at this stage of the book. It will probably go down something like:
7: The Bear and the Maiden, Davos becomes hand
8: Rains of Castamer, Davos frees Gendry, is about to face his punishment
9: Tyrion and Sansa getting married, Castle Black vs the rest of the climbers,
10: Joffery's wedding, Sansa's escape to the boat, the attack on the wall, Stanis arriving
I just finished the third book and haven't watched any of the season. I just have to say..the ending of the book..BLEW MY FUCKING MIND. nghhhhh. I am going to try to keep away from the third season until I finish the other two books..I am really sad that Strong Belwas isn't in the show... He is one of my favorite side characters.
I just finished the third book and haven't watched any of the season. I just have to say..the ending of the book..BLEW MY FUCKING MIND. nghhhhh. I am going to try to keep away from the third season until I finish the other two books..I am really sad that Strong Belwas isn't in the show... He is one of my favorite side characters.
Hope so. As I said, I imagined him differently, but I really like the guy they cast for that role!
yeah man, i pictured most of the characters completely differently when i read the books, i think Tywin so far has been the closest/best pick by far. that's not to say any of the actors are doing a bad job at all though, they're just different to who i'd pictured.
but i loved Iwan Rheon in Misfits, and he's already doing a great job of portraying the character of Ramsey Snow.
While I like Arya, the nickname 'horseface' doesn't really apply. But Tywin, yeah, great choice, I really enjoy the scenes with him. For some reason, before the show, I would image Littlefinger as someone like Baltar from BSG.
So do we think Theon Greyjoy's story is going to progress any time soon? For a show that's struggling to cram in the vast amounts of story already, they're wasting an awful lot of time on going nowhere at all in that arc.
kwramm, yeah, I felt the same about littlefinger before the show. The guy they got has warmed up for me... visually... but I really don't like the hammy way he delivers most of his lines.
Jackablade - NO KIDDING. Feels like they're running in circles with him now. Sure, a few scenes explaining what he'd been up to for all of book 3 makes sense...but they've covered almost everything that happens to him before book 5, and there's still another entire 2 seasons before they hit that book (or more, at this rate).
seems like most progress in the story has been in the 2nd half of the show this time. Sometimes it really drags. Please don't turn this into the Talking Dead
I disagree, I think Theon's scene was an important step.
Consider the other two characters dealing with the aftermath of mutilation.
Varys was immediately discarded and left to die, but it only helped him to find the will not only to survive, but to become one of the most influential men on Westeros, and to eventually have his revenge on the sorcerer. Sure, as a child his manhood wasn't that important to him, and it's actually quite common to see eunuchs on Essos (like the Unsullied) but it still changed the way people treated him and what he could have hoped to get out of life.
Jaime is of course still recovering, and the loss of his sword hand has also meant the loss of his identity. Yet he has already been able to stand up to Locke and force his will on him, even if it has once again involved his father.
So, it is important to see that while Theon seems to follow a similar path, there's a lot more happening there than just the mutilation. His tormentor's mind games and psychological terror are far more destructive, Theon is already much more ruined than Varys or Jaime has ever been and it's probably not over yet. But this has to be shown and built up step by step.
It's also important to see how much more sophisticated this man is compared to Joffrey, he isn't just about hurting people, and at this point you should already be wondering if this guy may end up being more important than the sorcerer or Locke.
varg--im not saying it wasnt an important scene...just that:
1: they're now done with a lot of what was supposed to happen to theon in the books till book 5...but ahead of schedule. That means theyll probably be inventing non-book junk for him next season.
2: adding all these theon scenes NOW means less screen time for the other interesting things. Strong Belwas, for example. Or more stuff with Tyrion actually being the master of coin.
I think some of those theon scenes would have been fine being pushed to next season.
I think the stuff with theon is there to slowly show his progression into reek, if they had left it like the books (so 2/3 seasons) it'd be unlikely the actor would come back and it would make no sense to those who havent read the books. i keep forgetting that in the books you get to hear the thoughts of alot of the characters which actually does a larger job explaining whats going on than what actually happens.
I'm guessing the battle at the wall will be the beginning of the 4th season. 3 hours isn't enough time to fit it all in (if we want to see any battles) jofferys wedding coming around the middle of the season, it ending with tywin.
Im actually hoping they start to merge more parts of book 4 and early book 5 in with the next season, since well... i thought book four was really slow for the most part. early 5 was more interesting so perhaps that will be season 5 as both book 4 and early 5, leaving season 6,7,8 for end of book5 plus 6,7.
however if they extended the amount of seasons that would be good since the final books wouldn't need to be rushed then
1: they're now done with a lot of what was supposed to happen to theon in the books till book 5...but ahead of schedule.
No, this is actually exactly on schedule. There's enough stuff left to cover, and I expect the next season to start some parts from book 5. Remember, book 5 happens in parallel to book 4; and this season should get as about as far as 2/3 of book 3 so the remaining material won't be enough for season 4.
Also, if you know the books:
In book 2, Ramsay's character is built up by the stories told about how he kidnaps a widow, marries her, tortures and kills her and so on. In TV it has to be shown instead of told, but the limited runtime and the size of the cast means they have to find a way without the widow to do it.
So they show his cruelty and evil by what he does to Theon before revealing him to be Ramsay Bolton.
Also, his identity would give away the Boltons' betrayal of the Starks, so it has to be dragged out until the RW. But, it has to happen this season to give it more weight - after all Ramsay is becoming an important character in book 5.
2: adding all these theon scenes NOW means less screen time for the other interesting things. Strong Belwas, for example.
Belwas was left out because there's only so many characters they can include. Martin can afford to have a new character for every event, the show can not - budget, casting, costumes and so on are all far beyond the average show already. So they merge characters whenever they can, which also means they can give more screen time to the actors they already hired.
For example Loras gets to wear Renly's armor and is meant to marry Sansa, standing in for his two brothers in the books. Or Gendry stands in for Edric Storm. So I expect that the more important stuff that Belwas should do would be done by someone else.
Or more stuff with Tyrion actually being the master of coin.
Tyrion appears in practically every episode already...
I hadn't thought about the contrasting against the other characters.
I guess there's a point behind it all and it'll all make sense when they do finally move forward with the arc, but it does seem to have been pretty much a case of "Theon is locked up somewhere for some reason and gets tortured by some guy that we know nothing about. We don't learn anything new" for the entire season so far. It's getting a tad repetitious.
the thing they did to theon in the last episode shouldn't really have happened. it becomes a rather psychological torture device for him later on, the fact that he still wants to be active in that way but knowing that if he does he'll lose more skin for it.
yeah... for those who've read the books, the next two episodes are gonna suck =[
for those who haven't... hold onto your balls!
am I missing something here? It's been a while since I read the books and I still remember what happens. But I'm actually looking forward to how it will be put in scene in the series. Should be a quite neat wedding episode if they do it right.
Why did Robb's wife die? In the books that she wasn't even at the wedding (Cat said it'd be insulting to Walder) and that she'd been switched out in time for the siege of Riverrun. When Jamie sees her, he describes her differently to Catelyn. Isn't it generally assumed that she'd been switched out and is still alive somewhere pregnant with Robb's child?
Why did Robb's wife die? In the books that she wasn't even at the wedding (Cat said it'd be insulting to Walder) and that she'd been switched out in time for the siege of Riverrun. When Jamie sees her, he describes her differently to Catelyn. Isn't it generally assumed that she'd been switched out and is still alive somewhere pregnant with Robb's child?
yes but:
After that she has no point to the remainder of the story, as she's fed moon tea to force an abortion of the child. so either way there is no heir and no need for her to be left in
Bloody hell, no wonder they started out with introducing so many characters in the beginning, with the way they drop out of the picture...Better not get attached to anyone...Imp, better stay safe, you magnificent little bastard.
After that she has no point to the remainder of the story, as she's fed moon tea to force an abortion of the child. so either way there is no heir and no need for her to be left in
That point relies on
Sybell Westerling telling the truth, and with the swapping out of Jeyne fooling Jamie, she could have been lying about the abortion juice as well.
Replies
That involved
I don't think that's Ramsay, I think it's Reek Uno.
He's ok as Reek, wouldn't fancy him as Ramsay; always pictured him as being a younger version of Mark Strong.
Mind you Bill Nighy would be perfect as Bolton... can't have it all I guess. :P
Nah, that's an entirely different event that has yet to occur. I'd still expect it to be smaller than the book though, judging by other massive battles being off-screen for budget reasons (Lannisters vs the Starks,The Battle of the Fist of the First Men, etc). At most it will probably be comparable to Blackwater
it's definitely the bastard.
Is there anything else similarly grand scale to happen in - where it most likely belongs - the next season?
I mean there's the big wedding but that'll just require one set and lotsa costumes for various extras.
Of course they should also get the scene where
I imagine this season will end with the wall being attacked. Whether or not it ends with Stanis arriving or if it saves that as the opening for next season it's hard to say. I sincerely hope its not treated like the Fist was (season ending with a massive army of wildlings approaching the wall for a cliff hanger, and then picking up the next season with the aftermath, without showing the action).
The three weddings probably wouldn't be as big of a budget drain and should also take place this season. Two don't require any real action or special effects, and the one people wont shut up about really only needs a few seconds of chaos followed by an establishing shot to show whats going on outside.
That would probably free the forth season to focus on Tyrion's imprisonment while starting to introduce Dorne, the Iron Islands, the Eyrie and the Sparrows more. I can't really think of any large scale (army vs army) battles around this period, but then again it was more focused on a specific region than the other books.
The attack from Mance will be the high point of this plot thread for the next season instead. There's also not enough time for it as they have 4 episodes to cover Jon running away from the wildlings, organizing the defense of Castle Black, and fighting the wildlings.
It's also a budget hog with large CG crowd scenes, giants and hopefully mammoths, definitely no room for that. Especially as they have to cover the RW too. So it makes sense to save up for it, especially as Dany will have far less spectacle after arriving at Mereen. So this year the VFX budget went to Astapor and Yunkai on Essos, next year it's Westeros again.
Joffrey's wedding is definitely next season material, there needs to be some buildup, Oberyn Martell has to arrive and he hasn't even been cast yet, but he needs to be present at the wedding. Tyrion is the one to meet and befriend him and it can't happen after he's imprisoned.
So this season we'll only see RW and Tryion + Sansa and that's it.
I think it's far more likely that season 4 will not only finish book 3 but also start book 4 and 5... If they want to fit the series into 8 seasons as they've said, they must leave room for the last two books and I doubt one season for each is going to be enough.
Tt's been a while since I've read through them all, but I think there are some OK cliffhanger points throughout those two. And Martin has already admitted moving several resolutions of book 5 plots into book 6, which everyone who read them has to agree with.
Although
Must be a pretty damn interesting and fun puzzle to shuffle all these plotlines around, with the freedom of several books'/seasons' worth of material already completed.
The red wedding would definitely fit in nicely, which gives Cat the potential to steal the last scene of the season after the credits (where last one had the others). Joffery's wedding might be a squeeze, but if there are still 4 episodes to go then I think it can still fit in episode 10. I don't think Oberyn will be a problem since the show does take liberties with how it introduces characters and he already has his reasons to fight Clegane without needing to befriend Tyrion (something I think he could still do even if he was imprisoned and waiting trial). It would be as good a time as any to introduce him in the show, and they'll be needing new cast members anyway.
Episode 7 looks like it is going to be the bear scene, John and the wildlings, some filler with Theon, and Mereen. That still leaves them with 8, 9, and 10, which is a lot of screen time to fit in the next few chapters at this stage of the book. It will probably go down something like:
7: The Bear and the Maiden, Davos becomes hand
8: Rains of Castamer, Davos frees Gendry, is about to face his punishment
9: Tyrion and Sansa getting married, Castle Black vs the rest of the climbers,
10: Joffery's wedding, Sansa's escape to the boat, the attack on the wall, Stanis arriving
There's plenty of stuff to cover, and you can also refer to the official episode summaries to see where they're actually going to end up.
For example
http://winteriscoming.net/2013/05/synopses-for-the-final-two-episodes-of-season-3/#more-26211
Hope so. As I said, I imagined him differently, but I really like the guy they cast for that role!
Belwas is fucking incredible.
Which is why I was sad he's not in it
yeah man, i pictured most of the characters completely differently when i read the books, i think Tywin so far has been the closest/best pick by far. that's not to say any of the actors are doing a bad job at all though, they're just different to who i'd pictured.
but i loved Iwan Rheon in Misfits, and he's already doing a great job of portraying the character of Ramsey Snow.
Jackablade - NO KIDDING. Feels like they're running in circles with him now. Sure, a few scenes explaining what he'd been up to for all of book 3 makes sense...but they've covered almost everything that happens to him before book 5, and there's still another entire 2 seasons before they hit that book (or more, at this rate).
Consider the other two characters dealing with the aftermath of mutilation.
Varys was immediately discarded and left to die, but it only helped him to find the will not only to survive, but to become one of the most influential men on Westeros, and to eventually have his revenge on the sorcerer. Sure, as a child his manhood wasn't that important to him, and it's actually quite common to see eunuchs on Essos (like the Unsullied) but it still changed the way people treated him and what he could have hoped to get out of life.
Jaime is of course still recovering, and the loss of his sword hand has also meant the loss of his identity. Yet he has already been able to stand up to Locke and force his will on him, even if it has once again involved his father.
So, it is important to see that while Theon seems to follow a similar path, there's a lot more happening there than just the mutilation. His tormentor's mind games and psychological terror are far more destructive, Theon is already much more ruined than Varys or Jaime has ever been and it's probably not over yet. But this has to be shown and built up step by step.
It's also important to see how much more sophisticated this man is compared to Joffrey, he isn't just about hurting people, and at this point you should already be wondering if this guy may end up being more important than the sorcerer or Locke.
1: they're now done with a lot of what was supposed to happen to theon in the books till book 5...but ahead of schedule. That means theyll probably be inventing non-book junk for him next season.
2: adding all these theon scenes NOW means less screen time for the other interesting things. Strong Belwas, for example. Or more stuff with Tyrion actually being the master of coin.
I think some of those theon scenes would have been fine being pushed to next season.
I'm guessing the battle at the wall will be the beginning of the 4th season. 3 hours isn't enough time to fit it all in (if we want to see any battles) jofferys wedding coming around the middle of the season, it ending with tywin.
Im actually hoping they start to merge more parts of book 4 and early book 5 in with the next season, since well... i thought book four was really slow for the most part. early 5 was more interesting so perhaps that will be season 5 as both book 4 and early 5, leaving season 6,7,8 for end of book5 plus 6,7.
however if they extended the amount of seasons that would be good since the final books wouldn't need to be rushed then
No, this is actually exactly on schedule. There's enough stuff left to cover, and I expect the next season to start some parts from book 5. Remember, book 5 happens in parallel to book 4; and this season should get as about as far as 2/3 of book 3 so the remaining material won't be enough for season 4.
Also, if you know the books:
So they show his cruelty and evil by what he does to Theon before revealing him to be Ramsay Bolton.
Also, his identity would give away the Boltons' betrayal of the Starks, so it has to be dragged out until the RW. But, it has to happen this season to give it more weight - after all Ramsay is becoming an important character in book 5.
Belwas was left out because there's only so many characters they can include. Martin can afford to have a new character for every event, the show can not - budget, casting, costumes and so on are all far beyond the average show already. So they merge characters whenever they can, which also means they can give more screen time to the actors they already hired.
For example Loras gets to wear Renly's armor and is meant to marry Sansa, standing in for his two brothers in the books. Or Gendry stands in for Edric Storm. So I expect that the more important stuff that Belwas should do would be done by someone else.
Tyrion appears in practically every episode already...
I guess there's a point behind it all and it'll all make sense when they do finally move forward with the arc, but it does seem to have been pretty much a case of "Theon is locked up somewhere for some reason and gets tortured by some guy that we know nothing about. We don't learn anything new" for the entire season so far. It's getting a tad repetitious.
It was pretty clear in the books IMHO that
for those who haven't... hold onto your balls!
I want no part of the next episodes. The fiancee has NO IDEA what is about to happen........I almost feel sorry for her, she's going to be devastated.
UPDATE: She's crying. I am dead inside.
am I missing something here? It's been a while since I read the books and I still remember what happens. But I'm actually looking forward to how it will be put in scene in the series. Should be a quite neat wedding episode if they do it right.
Yes. It was intense, even as a reader, too.
as a small condolence to those who haven't read the books. as horrible as it is now, it actually makes everything even more epic later on.
BIG SMILES PEOPLE!
Jeyne Westerling Spoilers Ahead!
yes but:
That point relies on